10 reasons why the 3-link is the ultimate rear suspension

[@aslacker]

I love the idea of you doing a custom rear suspension. Sometimes you have to do things just because you want ! Also, LOL at that guy who claimed the cam bearings will fail in 3-4k.

[@suave871]

This is already my favorite build. Always wanted to see an AWD S-10 in this generation.

[@snappyaj9053]

96-01 Oldsmobile Bravadas were AWD on the S10 platform.

[@DaInfamous0ne]

I definitely have a 2000 Blazer I want to do this to.

[@StationroadRatrods]

@@snappyaj9053I thought the bravada was closer to the size of an Escalade? In saying that, I never did compare them side by side

[@snappyaj9053]

@@StationroadRatrods depends on the generation, it’s always just been a brand engineered vehicle slapping Olds on an existing SUV. The first and second gen were Blazer based, but 02-04 were Trailblazer sized. I just mentioned it as the first and second generation were always AWD, which I think is the only way to get factory AWD in the GMT330 platform.

[@StationroadRatrods]

@@snappyaj9053 ohh okay cool. I used an Escalade for the transfer case and front diff in my Silverado, everything bolted in and I assumed the bravada was the same. But you know what, I may have been thinking of the Buick Rainier

[@joew7897]

Anyone that says that motor won't last doesn't know much about LS's. You don't need to explain yourself. Everyone is an expert online. Keep up the awesome work LT.

[@douglash3129]

Hey LT, I don't remember you building anything that didn't work as it should! If you don't use it you loose it, I think when you start doing modeling software you will nail it! Keep doing what your doing,this is great!👍👍

[@j.moneyfilms]

1:00 Why a 3 link over a 4 link 2:40 panhard bar vs watts link 5:00 why a GM 10 bolt over Ford 8.8 or 9" 7:27 Instant Center math 9:10 Custom suspension vs caltracs 10:10 upper link not centered 11:40 frame boxing and strengthen x-member 13:40 why didnt I pull the heads/do cam bearings 15:45 Send Cut Send 17:20 weight of the links a concern? Hopefully someone finds these timestamps useful. Looking forward to more on this build, LT!

[@Go69]

Love the way you go through and respond to the most common questions.. What I have found from personal experience is that criticism will always come from the keyboard cowboys, and SUPPORT or ADVISE will come from those out in the garage actually DOING IT... I am also building a custom 3 link for my step side daily driver just because I wanted to lower the rear 6", and still have shocks that actually work, and not have to cut the underside of the bed, and flip the axle (thereby changing pinion angle, and un-centering the wheel in the wheel well). I've heard from MANY people that have gone the 3 link, or 4 link, way that the heim joints are NOISY, make for a harsh ride, and require rebuild, and constant maintenance, to keep them working perfectly. On my rod ends I went with poly mounts that look like what factory would use. This way, I can hopefully avoid the pitfalls of metal bushed rod ends, and have a nice long service life. Keep up the great work. I am subscribed and enjoy all of your videos.

[@jamesdowell9676]

In my opinion Chevy had it right in the 60's to '72 when they had a triangulated 2 link coil spring rear end and no need for the 3rd link then the eggheads redesigned for the new sq body for '73 release. The new modern shock technology or coilover was all really needed and perhaps hyme joints for tracking adjustability for race applications.

[@70sAirForceBrat]

When I still had my 2003 GMC Sonoma work truck I had my tool box right at the tailgate and that extra weight actually helped with the handling especially when it was wet outside from rain or snow. Anyone that's drove a S10 for a Sonoma knows that's easy for that rear end to get away from you when the ground is wet and spin you out. So maybe that little extra weight will help you in the end. We will just wait and see.

[@BlackTownie999]

Thank you for addressing the question of the Panhard vs Watts link, and your right, with a REALLY LONG panhard bar, the side to side movement will be very minimal, especially if it's centered in the arc, it's simple and probably cheaper..

[@squirrelsworkshop]

Panhard bars can be mounted lower than a watts link, so you get a lower roll center as well.

[@snappyaj9053]

5:44 stock 90’s gear ratio in a 8.8” Explorer is 3.73, where you can also get posi and 31 spline axles.

[@beardoe6874]

Yeah, and if the S197 Mustang 8.8" housing has its third link bracket in the right place you could mix and match to create a custom width axle with factory style brackets and proven durability. It will require welding and a re-splining job if the axles have to be shortened but that can be very cheap compared to a new ring and pinion, locker and aftermarket axles.

[@snappyaj9053]

@@beardoe6874 exactly, and they’re about S10 4x4 width as well. Nova, F Body and TriFives have used Explorer axles for years. I have an Explorer 8.8” in a 55 Bel Air. I was able to use the stock axles but had a shop cut the tubes to center the pumpkin (7” from the long side, 4” from the short and swap sized). You can also cut 3” out of the long side and use two passenger side axles if you want to run huge tires.

[@workingguy-OU812]

Thank you for teaching us - both Lawrence and the people who asked the questions.

[@Tyson-u3m]

I appreciate you using good quality brackets and parts we civilians can get our hands on. Considering the economy.

[@hardball107]

I ran a stock 3:73 8.5" 10 bolt (came in the car) with a Detroit Tru-Track and a Yukon girdle rear cover in a in a '76 Camaro with a 510c/i big block and a Turbo 400 with 10.5" drag radials for years without a problem. There are a lot of diff's that will take a beating and still live even though they are not up to the 9" Ford toughness. The 8.5" GM has served me well in many applications over the years with just a little TLC and it's cheap. As for not tearing down a junkyard LS and spending lots more money where it might not be needed: I have swapped 8 LS's into different vehicles over the last 10 years, all needed a little TLC before installation. Yes, the rockers and pushrods can wear funny, they all get checked and replaced if worn and a new lightweight set of pushrods get dropped in. Except for one a cam was always installed with a new timing set and oil pump, if the cam bearings were bad they would be replaced but on my motors and many others I helped build they all have been fine, easy to check. The one I didn't check was my daily driver, a '88 S10 with a stock 2009 4.8 and a World Class T5 behind it and yes, the T5 is doing just fine at this point. Add a cam and maybe not so much but in it's current configuration it's a spirited ride to say the least. For over 30,000 miles it's been good to go needing only 3 new rockers and pushrods and a set of LS6 valve springs as long as I was in there and, I'm running a stock 7.625" S10 GT4, 3:73 10 bolt posi rear axle in it, no problems yet.

[@horsefly1020]

I ran the stock s10 rear running high 6s 1/8 mile for a long time before the pinion started getting lose.

[@teaguegearhart9851]

Really glad you care about who is watching. Thanks for your time to answer our question. Keep the S10 content coming😊

[@jakebray2702]

You want more weight on the rear so getting that with heavy duty suspension parts I think will only help it launching off the line.

[@erichildreth7562]

It has been fun watching you build your own custom suspension on this S-10! Your fabrication skills are unreal!! Thanks for sharing LT and looking forward to the next video!!

[@we-r-one_automotive.daniel3108]

I almost done with my s10 project. I dig what he's doing with his. It gives guys like us motivation to keep wrenching on our projects 🤘🏼

[@gavinoluna7071]

Hey man I love you videos and hey my run what you want, it's your time,it's your money, and you probably have more skill in one had then everybody here. Do what you want and keep up the good work.!

[@horsefly1020]

I did a cam swap without new cam bearings. Been beating on it for over 3 years now no problems.

[@johnnyk5]

Another point regarding the 8.5” rear being plenty strong enough: it’s only gonna see 60 percent of the torque consistently. The other 40 percent is going to the front.

[@cesare8020]

Hey lt. I got a 2500 suburban with an lq4 6.0 and 4x4 4l80e. Nice interior would make a great swap for the s10. Starts and runs and drives like a champ.

[@mchristr]

The Factory Five 3-link design has the upper bar offset to the passenger side, and those cars handle very well. LT, the brackets look plenty good as they are.

[@Valkyrie1000]

Enjoying the S10 build, as I have a 99 S10 2wd standard cab long bed that is getting a 5.3 swap. Note, the frame boxing is also on the 2wd frames as well, at least mine has it.

[@reaperasylum]

Just to clarify you can get a 3.73 gear ratio in the Ford 9in, I know this because when I swapped out the rear end on my 97 f150 to a 9in I had to get a gear kit to match the front differential. Yukon gear was the solution for my application.

[@colubrinedeucecreative]

Makes a lot more sense. I agree with most all of it, and look forward to seeing how it all pans out! You need that weight in the back, The front end is so heavy, and you won't even be bringing it to 70/30 will you? Can you mount the panhard bar to the 3rd link? Maybe even make whatever that first one was with one on bottom one on top? I like this, we are learning together so that is even better. I watch Dave Dirthead and he just is so experienced and entertaining, to see a bit younger is pretty cool too. Albeit completely different build needs though most of the time. Still enjoy the trial and error of it. Thanks for taking the time to address all the concerns. And yeah best to make content out of it!

[@atheplummer]

Dirthead Dave just did a 4 link for Derek at Vice Grip Garage with similar heavy duty off road links. I find this fascinating, & both of you doing so, inspires me to want to do this to my 1975 Monza 2+2, that I started the back half 30 years ago. Marriage, kids, yadda, yadda. It got set aside. My intentions were to just do a long ladder bar/coil overs on it... But now, I'm thinking a 3 link with the heavy duty parts you guys are adapting would be cool. My mind is leaning toward the third link running toward the rear bumper, in a Z link fashion, as that's the hot ticket for Late Model Dirt track Racing. It would alleviate the space issues also, as well as the 3rd link could be centered on the axle housing. Time to get er' finished.

[@ItsDaJax]

I'm looking forward to the build. You don't know what's gonna happen, we don't know, we're all learning. I always wondered what manual would that awd tcase bolt up behind. The only other vehicles I know use it are the H3 and Mountaineer, are both auto only.

[@hutchdw77]

Nice work. I’m excited to see this project coming together.

[@CodyCrafted]

You would consider the weight of the arms as "hybrid weight " it's not all sprung nor un-sprung. That said, the ship weight of a set of leafs is 40-50 lbs each. So overall weight delta is likely to the net positive even with the giant links. Easy enough to use the same heims and swap the bars to aluminum at some point if one so desired.

[@radonoah8855]

Definitely do the crossmember to brace that link mount. I broke mine off the crossmember on my 3 linked gmt800. It is a desert truck so a lot more stress is on it but those members are super thin i bet launching over time it will let go

[@BasedF-15Pilot]

This reminds me of a 3rd gen F-body torque arm set up.

[@E1337Jerk]

LT I get not wanting to box the frame I think where you put the shock towers you should 5 to 8 inches each side would really help rigidity

[@sogood4u489]

I remember at one point you said something about it being easier to start with a Zr2, but those have a two inch lift built into the frame, so that wouldn't have gone well. For any one looking to do an awd s10 all you need is the front diff transfer case and driveshaft from an astro van or a bravada.

[@mikemuir6402]

Yes , Ford 8.8 from explorer come in 3.73 with LSD

[@sacrificialrubber779]

Gonna put a 3-link on my nova , plan on road/drifting it. Plus just driving

[@reaperasylum]

Vice grip garage built a very strong triangulated 4 link rear setup in his ratrod Ford truck and now we got the man with the plan that built a 3 link setup in his truck,, decisions decisions I have no idea which one to use in my s10 street truck. Oh boy this is gonna be fun, I'll keep leaf springs in for now until I finish building the supercharged 11.5-1 compression forged 4.3, I estimate 650hp so I'll need something strong back there lol

[@jasonklow3355]

Love this built. I'd like to do the same with my truck, but I think I'd do a watts link instead of a panhard bar.

[@a1racer441]

I run a 3 link on the front of my jeep xj with tons and 40's if it can handle that I think a rear axle on a s10 will be cool. just try and set the trackbar flat at ride height and it should be fine.

[@V8RJIM]

I dig the rear suspension. Wouldn’t worry about the weight, what real weight savings would there be from 1/8 to 1/4 wall…..i bet not enough to fool with. I’d take all out strength myself. People slam new cams in worn bearings on LS engines all the time. Bet it lives longer than you intend on it being in there.

[@dazaspc]

I like the fact that you have gone for Steel over High Tensile Steel for your suspension. Easier and safer to weld, Higher resistance to developing stress cracks (When optimised for weight)and unless you take advantage of the higher tensile strength no weight advantage. The only thing that worries me is the top link and the front pivots ability to spread the forward push in the chassis. Leaf springs do a great job of softening up the push over time and absorbing some of the flex. The instant load on a single cross member would be my concern. Does it need the load spread forward to ahead of the lower front pivots into the box section? Probably not but it would make the likelihood of unwanted flex moot. I suppose it is all about the goals of either holding it up like a 4wd or pushing it forward like a Drag Car?

[@agauthier89]

You can change one end of each link to a Johnny joint to quiet the ride.

[@jaypepper1453]

not a question per say more of a statement imp at least with the overbuilt suspension in the rear end it just means you should be able to put more power to the ground when you start adding more and more power in the engine or bigger more powerful engines. Cause I would love to see this vehicle with 700+ HP and torque sooner or later. It will be a BA truck

[@iquad1234]

I have been looking into building a dakota with a reversed upper y link. This would eliminate the need for a pan hard bar and allow me to keep stock fuel cell and exhaust. I’ve only seen this done in off-road so I’m wondering why it hasn’t been done on street trucks and if it has there is little documentation. Think ride tech upper link flipped around pointing towards the tail gate. It seems the only trade off is spare tire but that’s not so important in a pro touring street truck. Thoughts?

[@romanengland7036]

Are you temporarily dropping in a stock cam 5.3? It should still boogie pretty well since the s10 is so much lighter than the full size trucks you’re used to

[@PrestonFarr]

Going to be sick!

[@SteveP-vm1uc]

@LT : What is your opinion on using a wishbone instead of the 3rd link? I would think you could run this truck with a wishbone instead and not have to add a panhard bar....

[@bertpulaski2492]

Loving the build but one question that wasn’t asked/answered. Why heims over poly/delrin? I’m thinking about the noise a linked suspension can create.

[@StationroadRatrods]

I had a heim joint 4 link in my truck and it wasn’t very noisy. If a link was loose you knew it, but that’s a good thing.

[@timothycarey3883]

As someone who has built rock crawlers unsprung weight makes the vehicle more stable. It wont be an issue.

[@danielkruger4305]

Since you want a CNC plasma table I assumed you had the CAD skills. Fusion 360 has sheet metal tools and CAM built in.

[@edcadlick2650]

Thanks for the answers, you can't do it all. More burnouts please😉🙋👍🇨🇦

[@horsefly1020]

Is there any reason you didn't use the front leaf spring mounts for the 2 lower bars?

[@nicholasmerrriman2296]

What happened to the 4Valve Mustang build? Just wondering 🤔

[@Techangler65]

What trunnion upgrade kit did you use ?

[@Cory-b3p]

Hey LT, I'd love to see a 4.2 atlas motor in the awd s-10. Big power and way less common than ls 5.3

[@henrycarlson7514]

Interesting , Thank You

[@scotthultin7769]

9 👍's up LT thank you for sharing 🤗

[@brandoncharley3070]

Why not build the upper as a wishbone for centering (like a desert truck or bagged truck) instead of having to deal with a panhard?

[@lylejohnston4125]

What's going to keep the rear end centered? A fourth link?

[@l.o.w.5769]

LT! Do it your way

[@shakenfake]

Where did you get that piece of paper?

[@randybrechbiel9748]

You could get some aluminum links built later

[@9Sept]

I want to All wheel drive my 2011 Alavanche. Where do I start

[@danielbyl2967]

First off is your Avalanche a 4WD front the factory? If so watch his videos on his "COPO" truck. All the information is in those episodes.

[@turboflush]

Why not have swapped in a IRS rear suspension? Or is this 80% drag truck?

[@hinkhausr]

I thought the nbs gms had the 8.6 rears

[@jjman_6920]

How much did you have the driveshaft shortened I’m having problems with my 8.5 swap I’ve had it shortend twice now and it still bottoms out sometimes on hard bumps on the highway it’s already been shorten about 1.5 inches

[@lautaroezequielmolina9691]

Hi LT...This truck deserve a manual transmition...

[@erickbernard8208]

Hopefully u get to race an SLP colorado someday

[@ZackNakazora1]

Will you do a 4200 turbo someday?? 😅

[@felixlafuente9714]

It could be an "Y" UPPER CONTROL ARM?

[@kev90sc]

Hey LT you don't need to explain yourself to anyone....internet trolls be trolling. Keep up the good work 😎

[@InnocentMiscreant]

8.5 & 8.6 10 bolts get a bad reputation from off roading with big tires heavy trucks on the street with a good locker they're resilient and can take a beating

[@lancehayward3527]

A rear sway bar ??

[@douchedidit9222]

All the ppl with the negativity about that engine not lasting lol just like they thought the big ole 8.1 wasn’t gonna last with that boost thing is still running like a champ . They are so use to all these other KZbinrs throwing big boost and terrible tuning at them

[@ivanbarajas5471]

most or all of this question were answered in the other video

[@LukeEdward]

The 3-link IS awesome. IF - IF YOU HAVE THE ROOM. 3-links under an engine just doesn’t work.

[@og190]

The rear of the truck is lighter than the front ,so, you want a little more weight for the rear of the truck .

[@curlynigero6417]

Why not put the fuel tank in the back

[@ram_1776]

Weight and traction, I'd go for the weight.

[@Veryrandy8508]

I'm not a fan of a panhard bar .it always changes the track Alignment

[@bluecollarhotrods9781]

People saying the engine will only last 5K miles is laughable. I really hate the Internet sometimes. So much misinformation and BS.

[@horsefly1020]

They obviously never seen sloppy mechanics

[@bluecollarhotrods9781]

@@horsefly1020 I personally have 15K miles on some unknown mileage heads and shortblock. I did similar to what LT did to his 5.3L. It has tons of dyno pulls and 1/4 mile passes on it.

[@hot355clubby]

Lol I think we all have the Tim Allen syndrome! 😅👍🏻

[@fobbitoperator3620]

If art could be presented as violence & brutality, it would be the fabrication of this fantastic rear suspension, then showing the benefits of the science, by recording a sub 10 second quarter mile run!

[@joeala762]

You should reach out to dave Chappell for chassis questions, maybe do a collaboration.??

[@hippieweldor]

3 link isnt 1 link less, still need panhard link. Triangulated 4 link same amount of connections.

[@P3oWarclath]

This video has a very in depth explanation of why they run a panhard bar vs a Watts link. ( and why they only run a heim joint at one end ) kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoetpJlsnq2ZmdEsi=7YVpwcRUlrMp9DfK Keep up the great work LT!

[@rjm7168]

The H is silent

[@jimwatson1702]

Boost district 427

[@No1414body]

8.5 10 bolt is easy to get bigger axles and posi for also that makes it just as strong as a 12 bolt or an 8.8 ford

[@lsingleton77]

I believe you're overthinking or making up drama that isn't there. There isn't Anyone who doesn't know why you made the choices you made on the engine..

[@Drunken_Hamster]

Nope. Satchell Link. Better yet, a Satchell Link De-Dion axle.

[@ryurc3033]

Ive heard so much back and forth about ls cam bearings, and the supposedly line honed bearings. I just dont buy it. No way do they get machined, cleaned, bearings get installed, go back to the line bore machine, clean again, then assembly. It makes no sense. Far more likely all cam bearings were not in square from the start and wear funny. Honestly it used to be on small blocks that the cam bearings never got looked at. Now LS=new small block, the same applies. Seen plenty of them withstand the worst abuse, absolute monkeys throwing them together, and bouncing off the rev limiter doing burnouts over and over and over, truly low buck, copper spray reused head gasket, absolutely sloppy builds that would take a 300 shot and not blow up, and brand new motors that don't last through the warmup......never know

[@james10739]

Why didn't you just buy a trx

[@rubenwong9574]

Cause built its better than bought

[@james10739]

@@rubenwong9574 I was just throwing out another ridiculous question like some of these

[@andyl5134]

Whoever said there’s no such thing as a stupid question didn’t have to see the questions you answered. 😂

[@thehotrodstation3313]

Most of those ? 'S you have addressed in other vids. WTH is wrong with people? They watch other creators videos and comment based on what they saw. No explanation needed . Your truck your build. We do this $#!+ everyday. We watch ,because we still like to see what others do. Be it "right" or wrong. In who's eyes though? So ,that ramble to say this again. You do you. We're gonna watch whether others do or not. Quit explaining yourself and get back to satisfying your OCD. 😂 sorry couldn't help myself. Im that way too!🤘

[@derrelcarter9401]

Good Job & Video