Why EVERY team can triumph in finals + Who will be the most DAMAGING player? - SEN

[@wrwosster89076]

Why are people who clearly dislike & constantly disagree with Hoyne & Champion Data watching & posting??? Just don’t understand - plenty of other content for you!

[@Codie__]

Disagreeing and arguing with data would have to be one of the most idiotic activities I can think of

[@Mayoxs]

@@Codie__ people dont disagree with data, they disagree with the importance and the use of that data. Champion data are egregiously awful at accurately applying their data to quantify things and their employees treat it as biblical fact. Their player ratings are awful and have genuine influence in the media/discussion so people are well within their right to critique

[@Codie__]

@@Mayoxs what an odd thing to get triggered by. Have you developed your own player rating system that we can use instead?

[@novah589]

@@Mayoxs Not sure how good it is now with the changes to the rating system but 4 years ago it was at around 70% accurate at predicting winners, that's pretty good for such a complex game like AFL.

[@cjcrrazy]

@@wrwosster89076 I love it ! Knowing it’s not the be all and end all. It’s great when your ego or bias is challenged, and you learn something deeper you hadn’t seen to the naked eye. Some people obviously don’t like this.

[@douglasparker577]

I'm watching this after Port-Geelong game. WOW Hoynie you nailed it. Geelong's chaos killed Port.

[@DeeMan17]

He tipped Port by 3-4 goals mate.

[@daryl5320]

Fark i’m gonna miss all of this nuffy chat over the off season, there’s a lot of vitriol but ya gotta love this nuffy community especially when we only have what the bbl to look forward to. Enjoy the finals and enjoy spring

[@SilentHotdog28]

5 test series against India is the big one.

[@reecemccullough4829]

Great episode. Have really enjoyed the Champion data guy this year. Sorry dont know the name

[@dbb1979]

His name is hoyne mcgovern

[@reecemccullough4829]

@@dbb1979 cheers mate

[@tjed2072]

@@dbb1979hahahahaa

[@Power_Prawnstar]

Think we should be referring to the big 4 at Port. Wines has had a ripping season, very underrated. Love the time stamps, skip straight past the Hawks, sick of hearing about them, go dogs 🐕

[@jsequine927]

I’m curious about Hawthorn having the least, 6 games, of “chaos” football. The Hawks are the smallest side and rated the best ground ball team in the AFL. They are also very good by foot. I’m hoping for it to rain for a chaos style game against the Dogs. It’s a simple ratio so higher possession sides might not necessarily not want a more ground ball style of game but they are actually better at ground level, win the ball more, and then spread and have more control with the football with uncontested marks.

[@con6164]

The Hawks game style won't hold up in finals footy. It is showboating

[@never7745]

@@con6164 Maybe it won't, don't state it like how you've done cause karma's a b and you could be the b

[@mundanenames9752]

@@con6164it is designed to hold up in finals you nuffy great contested team and ground ball gets with ability to spread fast and get easy goals in high pressure situations

[@Endrak666]

​@@con6164 what specifically about the hawks system is showboating?

[@jj45455]

@@con6164How is it showboating? It’s called hard running.

[@ThatAussieBloke1]

Very excited for Finals

[@Tosicc567]

Lions are the second hardest team to score against? Wow their best defender must be all australian! Oh wait someone in west coast made it over him despite being worse in every single key defensive stat.... Almost like there's no QLD based selector and they always have the lions player as the "one to miss out"

[@blade-ex5pi]

McGovern and Andrews play different roles in the back, you numpty, Andrews is 1 on 1 while McGovern is an interceptor and controls the backline. You already have Weitering but want another 1on 1 defender instead of McGovern??? No understanding of footy

[@endakis1]

@@blade-ex5piwait you must be Blues. Weiters is the one to move out

[@Tosicc567]

@@blade-ex5pi You might want to check intercept mark numbers mate. Hate to tell you but Andrews had better numbers than McGovern there too, whilst also being dominant in 1 on 1s. He was literally the best defender in the comp this year and got snubbed because he plays for the lions, as I said all key defensive stats he was better than both of them. Andrews was number 1 for intercept marks, McGovern was number 9, Andrews was 2nd in the league for contested marks only behind Hogan, he also won the most 1 on 1s . He was by far the best defender in the league. Also you clearly dont watch footy, Andrews controls the backline better than anyone, hes nowhere near only a 1 on 1 defender and yet he's the best at that too hahahaha He has had two basically historic seasons as a key defender not seen since Alex Rance in the last two years, been snubbed twice

[@Tosicc567]

@@endakis1 Either of them are, Harris was statistically better in both of their roles at the same time lmao Its the biggest AA snub of recent time. They clearly dont select based on impact or stats. The only explenation can be they wanted players of the biggest clubs in. Theres no other logical reasoning why, he was better in every single meaningful way as a defender

[@Tosicc567]

@@blade-ex5pi Bro thought he cooked but clearly didnt look at any of Andrews intercept statistics and had the balls to say I dont know footy hahahaha If andrews was a 1on1 defender him having better intercept numbers than McGovern is pretty telling right??

[@darcyknorr9127]

Hoyney is SEN's most valuable employee

[@Nathan-bu5ci]

Finals footy, chaos plus loose umpiring. Dogs fed off that in 2016 and I don't think they have changed much.

[@breezo4390]

CARN THE DOGS🟦⬜🟥

[@drzoidberg19855]

Another Throwdogs armchair ride coming up this Friday night.

[@TomasUjhelyi]

Holy cow swans still seething 8 years later

[@shannonpincombe8485]

​@@TomasUjhelyiNah mate. The Doggies threw, dropped the ball at any chance they got and were given heaps of frees for tackles which 'stuck too long' or 'when not in possession' but never for 'incorrect disposal'. The semi against the Hawks was where it truly began. The umpiring of the second wtr in oarticular was disgraceful. Dogs pkayers caught red handed holding the balk were rewarded with a bounce or a free kick for high contact or some other BS. It was then the Doggies thought, no Bevo was asked about the umpiring pist match and he replied "Well, if they're not going to call them we'll keep playing that way." I saw that semi libe at the 'G' and even the Doggies suooirters around me were embarrassed by what said was "an unfair advantage". I also saw the game up in Sydney against GWS and the Doggies got away with murder that night. But GWS needed to be precise or they were penalised immediately. During the first half of the TV coverage of the GF the commentstors didnt know how to broach the subject but finally, I believe it was Cameron Ling said "this umpiring has been the most one sided I've seen in years. It is ruining this game... for one football side, one teams supporters and the neutral viewers." He was right. I turned off the tv and decided ro take my Husky for a nice long walk. I had my phone with the AFL app 'Listen Live' feature set to MMM. Luke Darcy, an ex Bulldog and Nathan Brown another ex Dogs player both admitted that the umpiring was straight up bordering on chearing. "But that doesn't matter for all of the long suffering Doggies fans!" screamed Darcy in excitement. They knew this was a sham. One of the longest Premiership droughts in history was about to be broken. And to add insult to injury the best okayer on the ground for entire day Josh Kennedy of the Sydney Swans was overlooked for a cameo performnance by Jason Johanneson. What a total fix up. No one can tell me that GF wasn't rigged. Everything I saw on the tv, everthing I heard on the radio and the presetntation ceremony seeing an indeserving okayer getting the Norm Smith was a disgrace. And the next year when the Tifers began pmaying that exact style of footy, throwing the ball, dropping the ball, not disposing oroperly according to the rules Damien Hardwick said to a oscked oress conference. "We'll, I mean the Bulldogs won a flag playing this tyoe of footy so why can't we.?" And they went on to win three playing some of the worst looking football i have ever seen. Dimma Hardwick knew he could put all of the onus back onto the AFL as they had allowed a team to win every one of their finals in 2016 playing a style of football which should never have been rewarded with a trophy. And then three more came from that awful brand of tripe the Tigers served up. Finally teams are going back to playing better, for skilful football and the game is more attractive to watch. But the Tigers don't play that way so they got themselves a spoon to stir their pot of crap game style with. But that 'top level' talent pool will dilute once Tassie enters the comp so you'd better hope your club has its ducks in a row before the compromised drafts begin again in earnest.

[@drzoidberg19855]

@Nathan-bu5ci I'm not a swans supporter, pretty telling your mind went directly to the 2016 grand final when 'throwdogs' was mentioned.

[@clarkclements7204]

Bold call: The top 2 teams will both go out in straight sets.

[@joeyrobertson9523]

Agreed

[@ST-cp6fn]

As a Port fan pls dont speak this into existence. I can't handle it anymore

[@novah589]

@@Downpaymentblues 11-9 at Adelaide Oval, pretty good

[@novah589]

@@Downpaymentblues Yes, 12-9 now, pretty good away record

[@SkandiaAUS]

That title perfectly sums up the stereotype of an AFL media type. Have a bet every which way, then you can't be wrong!

[@TheCharcoalchicken]

Dogs to win the flag from 6th They've made the GF twice from outside top 8, they'll go all the way again and probably win this season.

[@masoprid3]

hope g.w.s win as a neautral supporter

[@SilentHotdog28]

I want Dogs to win, but I think GWS will win (which I wouldn't mind either) vs Port in the Grand Final.

[@darrenbaker6019]

Nope

[@CharlesAshton-x6v]

how'd that go buddy?

[@alanmcmahon3109]

I think this chaos style game talk is nonsense. It is pressure - which team brings it the most for the longest period, which team handles it best for the longest period. Plus good coaching ....

[@hefudgedafrog]

I think Hoyney's telling fibs here, unless he's talking about some new fangled unreleased rating system his own company has Luke Ryan as the 15th best medium defender in the league - that's not including guys like Sicily who are ranked higher but classed as a key defender. I'd class that as a howler, unless you want to judge defenders by their ability to take uncontested, non intercept marks and nothing else.

[@alansimmonds9030]

Ryan was the clear howler for me.....half a dozen defenders should have been in ahead of him....Not to mention 2 players from west Coast getting a guernsey, when they've been pummeled all year.

[@UTube-gs1yf]

How can they not address the Swans poor form over the last 7 weeks, and them getting belted in clearances regularly? I think having Adams as the sub - getting some more rest in his legs which have totally gone with his large workload this year, and Heeney & Parker putting some time in mids will help clearances, but still....it's a significant worry. Grundy will be the crucial factor IMO. If the week off has helped his body sufficiently, and he is back to early season form Swans should win. If Grundy needed the extra week off and he's still leggy then GWS will win. Why they didn't give Ladhams a run Vs Adelaide is beyond me.

[@Tatumstantrum]

Winner of Swans v Giants game will win the flag. Easily too. Nobody even close on their best footy

[@Sbock86]

@@Tatumstantrum I am not convinced by the Swans - even if they beat GWS. However, GWS are favourites for mine.

[@Tatumstantrum]

@@Sbock86 only time will tell. I think during this finals series they'll go back to the dominance of early season. Can see em doing a Geelong 22 quite easily. 2 home finals at the SCG into a granny against the soft side of the draw They're flag favourite for a reason

[@Sbock86]

@@Tatumstantrum meh. I can't see it. I see them losing to either Brisbane or Carlton or in a prelim against Port Adelaide (who they haven't beaten in close to 7 years - and who can forget the Round 21 clash?)

[@Tatumstantrum]

@@Sbock86 see how ya feel if they come out and belt the Giants

[@slowraceultra]

I like the Hawks.

[@jsequine927]

Particularly if it rains Friday here we go! I like 80% chaos for the ground ball Hawks.

[@jacobbyrne8200]

Gone week one

[@clarkclements7204]

Enjoy being in the finals while you are, mate!

[@glennwalker2996]

​@@clarkclements7204see you next year 2 best key backs in comp coming cissily forward abd weddle mid game over another dynasty😂🤎💛💪🏆🏆🏆🏆

[@ReginaldIllingsworth-tk3vs]

As a dogs fan, I like the hawks too! Spewing that we’re facing them in week 1 😂

[@jsequine927]

Jack Gunston has an outstanding finals record, the Lions might have done well to take that into account last year, same to the analysts here 😅

[@Sbock86]

Pretty easy when you have Roughead, Franklin and Rioli as your running mates.

[@hefudgedafrog]

@@Sbock86 makes it all the more amazing that he has more grand final goals than all of them!

[@Josh82420]

@@hefudgedafrog getting the 4th best defender every time certainly helped

[@hefudgedafrog]

@Josh82420 if that's the case wouldn't the 4th best forward always kick the most goals?

[@Josh82420]

@@hefudgedafrog most teams back then didn’t have the luxury of having a 4th choice forward as good as Gunston , let alone the attention from defenders that Buddy alone commanded

[@jackmag4056]

Teams I want to win it from most to least , Carlton Bulldogs GWS Port Sydney Bris Geelong Hawthorn Teams that I think have the best chance to win it , from best to worse Syd Haw Port Gws Bulldogs Gee Bris Carl

[@Tatumstantrum]

Sydney Swans will do a Geelong 2022, best team all season, top of the ladder comfortably and they'll win flag in a canter Rest of the teams in it playing for 2nd From a Blues fan

[@clarkclements7204]

Swans out in straight sets.

[@Tatumstantrum]

@@clarkclements7204 would be shocked mate, not gonna happen, they'll most likely have their toughest game this week. Beat Giants and they've got a prelim at SCG Good luck to whoever plays em

[@Tatumstantrum]

@@clarkclements7204 curious when was the last time Sydney lost 2 in a row at the SCG?

[@Sbock86]

@@Tatumstantrum not convinced at all by the Swans. GWS will beat them this weekend.

[@Tatumstantrum]

@@Sbock86 we'll find out soon enough. I think it'll be their hardest game of finals. I feel like the flag winner comes from this game

[@Matt-cp9wh]

Geelong has great coaches they know what they are doing, however not sure they have the troops this year. Will see

[@webbovich77]

Hoyney nailed the Geelong v Port game. 80% of Finals games are 'chaos ball'. Geelong wants 'chaos ball'. Port Adelaide wants you to go to 'chaos ball' Little surprise that Geelong smoked Port.

[@breezo4390]

CARN THE DOGS

[@joeyrobertson9523]

Winner of Port vs Cats could go to the grand final but the loser might go out in straight sets. What a year haha

[@aidanevans5658]

I fear my Blues will just be making up the numbers this finals series The rest of the teams I feel can genuinely win it and are serious..

[@triplem908]

Data guy great

[@agmor1]

... except Port. Kenny is the Doc Rivers of the AFL - a perennial choke artist who blames everyone else for his failures.

[@Thomas-dn8dr]

Haha. Nice trolling, trolly 😂

[@Power_Prawnstar]

Say what you want about Ken, but he never blames, he's more likely to cop a bullet for someone else. Good human being is Kenny.

[@Layupline23]

Commenting here as a bookmark

[@agmor1]

@@Power_Prawnstar He and Davies blamed the list when Port was smashed by Brisbane. He blamed the midfield when he choked in last year's final. Schofield and Montgomery were dumped after failed seasons. Blame, blame, blame, blame.

[@Power_Prawnstar]

@@agmor1 I'm a port fanatic, and I haven't heard those things. Port were cooked last year.

[@spindoctor6385]

This chaos vs control analysis would have to be one of the most simplistic and irrelevant waste of time I have heard so far for this year's finals. It has so many holes that I wouldn't know where to begin. The premise, the metrics used, the lack of margins used for those metrics, the sample sizes.

[@dylanwalsh7268]

So funny seeing Kane sulky while Hoyny was taking about how the cats can win

[@troyjackson3832]

he was barracking for geelong hard enough.

[@Power_Prawnstar]

Kane doesn't care, he's won a grand final, he knows its all talk.

[@emci51]

happy to be proven wrong but will be interesting to hear how carlton are gonna "triumph" in the finals...

[@laundryday2440]

Did you have a listen?

[@emci51]

Hoyney did NOT mention too many positives did he? I think they might b the only ones there making up the numbers this year

[@laundryday2440]

@@emci51 seems you didn’t listen, shame really

[@derekbos4404]

Why even watch "Why every team can win" .. it will be Sydney vs GWS.

[@YoNumLet]

As a neutral that is my choice for the teams in the granny this year, with GWS winning it by playing harder footy than the Swans. lol

[@derekbos4404]

Port .. eek. Sydney it up!!

[@Power_Prawnstar]

Just happy theres no Melbourne teams in the top 4 tbh. Even though the Hawks get there two away games at home 😂 asterix team

[@spindoctor6385]

I love when you can just ignore your own statistics when you don't like them.

[@donjohnson6601]

Can there be anything more boring than quoting statistic after statistic

[@M-lt6kx]

You've chosen to be here...

[@Power_Prawnstar]

I eat this shit up, I'm a fantasy footy nerd

[@markborich9392]

In last 5 games Geelong are 11th at defending TO Port are 3rd. Port also far superior at inside 50 differential. When you consider Geel have played the 10th,12th, 15th, 16th, 17th teams on the ladder that is very poor. Two key factors in winning flags.

[@clarkclements7204]

Straight sets again. Just you watch.

[@robertstambulovski]

Finals changes everything ' hardness at the ball and tackling is the key for cats'

[@markborich9392]

@@robertstambulovski i just think they are an average footy team. 2022 they were daylight better than this side. I think carl and geel the worst teams in the 8.

[@emf2000]

Power under a ton of pressure and will likely choke again like they always do

[@markborich9392]

@@emf2000 This is the best ive seen them under Hinkley heading in to finals. I think Port can take the next step.

[@Sh1nch4n22]

You can already sense Kane is getting nervous as he’s hearing how well the dogs are going. We’ll never forget the nonsense that came out of your mouth. You better wish we don’t win it all

[@afez2752]

Lol

[@gregclarke7130]

Kingy hawthorn for wooden spoon 2025

[@YoNumLet]

Kingy meant the wooden spoon in the finals in 2025, so the Hawks will come eighth. lol Wow, who foresaw the Hawks coming like they did at the end of the year? A lot of other teams lost matches at the end of the year they were expected to win, it was a strange end to the home and away season in 25.

[@DowSimmons23]

giants built and primed to win it all

[@Robrulz666icloud]

@@DowSimmons23 That aged really well 🤣🤣🤣

[@DowSimmons23]

@@Robrulz666icloud could have easily won that game and last i checked they're still in it. Pretty sad how you waited a week to come back to this. rent free bud

[@thequartersfooty]

Don't care who wins the Grand Final, just not GWS cannot stand them at all. Carlton the most undeserving team to even be in the finals they were very very lucky to even be there, they'll be out after this weekend but good luck to them lads. The other 6 well its anyone's guess, because all teams are heavy favourites.

[@niknigal3379]

Mate Carlton won 13 games, how are they not deserving??

[@clarkclements7204]

Haha. I actually want GWS to win it more than any other club in it other that the team I go for which are the Blues.

[@thequartersfooty]

@@niknigal3379 They are the luckiest S.O.B's on God's Green Earth mate. They had a promising season mid way, then the wheels were falling off and losing matches and injuries, and quite frankly in the last game when they lost to St Kilda and Fremantle fell down at the final stretch to the 8 against Port Adelaide. So they are not a true top 8 team in the form they were in going into the finals, I don't think they'll last long.

[@thequartersfooty]

@@clarkclements7204 To hell with them, me as a Fremantle supporter I would be f'n ropable if GWS get to a premiership before Freo.

[@niknigal3379]

@@thequartersfooty And they won 13 games.... Fremantle and Collingwood won 12

[@ginosolima3124]

Carlton won't win the flag. All the other teams can

[@Matt-cp9wh]

Only 1 team can win the flag though

[@Navybaggers]

Daniel has gotta be the biggest waste of money in the afl

[@stucumins8511]

Nah Brayshaw is.

[@rufus102]

poor baby. did the bad man say something that hurt you?

[@beeraaaaad]

Just want my lions to destroy the blues so the media can stop talking about them every day. Got carlton fatigue.

[@jackmag4056]

As a Carlton supporter that’s what I fear the most , I know we will lose just hope it’s by a couple of goals

[@noway5347]

Will Bris do a choker somewhere in the finals? Will Charlie show up or just show off? Who knows. 😅

[@Power_Prawnstar]

And Hawks 🤢

[@zuenergy]

Where's the Collingwood chat?

[@Power_Prawnstar]

It's September, nothing to chat about 😂

[@con6164]

Horney tipping Port but telling everyone Geelong is a huge chance. Laughable. Chaos suits the team with the most elite midfield. If Port beat the Cats then Horney's analysis is a laughing stock. Dog's don't have a weakness??? Explain the floggings they got from Adelaide a bottom 4 side as well as Power about 4 weeks ago.!!!! They didn't finish top 4 Kane because of the above!!!!! I am starting to think this analysis panders to a pro Vic audience at the expense of objectivity.

[@Power_Prawnstar]

Well it is a Vic radio station

[@afez2752]

Aged like milk