1940s No Gi military Judo VS Wrestling holds

[@VigilanteGamer]

That choreographed fight in the beginning was more realistic than 99% of fights in movies

[@Chadi]

100%

[@bigmanbarry2299]

Honestly though. They put a good bit of time into it I reckon

[@piggypoo]

That looks like a real brawl tbh.

[@counterkidnapping1737]

The dude has a double leg with a wrong position. Hrad down and hunch back that's a no no in wrestling

[@Gstrugglin]

Chadi, check out Henry Okazaki. You will find his history and ties to judo, jujitsu and US 1940's military combat manual interesting.

[@steverodgers4662]

I'm so sad that judo has regressed.. I'm happy I trained in the early 90s n still train to this day but I practice leg attacks n defense bcuzI'm sorry it's a martial art not just sport I want to b able to defend myself in the street n y not attack the whole body not just upper body. Judo is one of the best martial arts

[@jedijudoka]

Hear, hear. Most of my club also trains bjj so we grab the legs too, as well as unorthodox grips.

[@vlada]

The whining that comes from the US is funnier than anywhere else because their judo federation and structure is the most useless and totally bush league and unorganized. And the bjj envy is hilariously sad. The rest of planet is doing fine, dont worry. Before Covid, the sport was packing it in Grand Prix arenas and the TV audience growing (Astana 2015 Worlds had 150-200 million viewers worlwide). Hell, our national broadcaster Radio Canada showed last months tournament online. The martial art is unchanged, you still need to know every move even the ones you cant use in competition if you get your black belt. We even practice kani basami. We just dont do them in competition. The sport vs art is an old debate but the sporting decision has been excellent for the popularity of the sport worlwide. Judo is run top down in every country but US where the concepts of federations is foreign and martial arts are a do it yourself deal. It is also run as a sporting club and not private business in many countries. Our club has 400-500 members precovid and if the technical director, competition team coach or president leave/die, the club is structured to continue as opposed to a private school that closes when owner quits. I wasnt a fan of some rule changes (some like stopping Pedro's obsessive games of pattycakes were needed) but just like in real life, you adapt to new circumstances. It happens in every sport. Change scares people. Of the 60ish throwing techniques 3-4 were banned before and 4-5 leg grabs more recently (although you can still use them as part of attacks) from competition so this isnt a new concept. And bitching about rules, banned moves, judging, point fighting is extremely popular in bjj so none of this is surprising. And if you think you still cant defend yourself when so many trained judoka can, maybe its you.

[@MaxLohMusic]

We Judoka divide its era into two components: Pre-2010, and post-2010. These days, we have to train Judo, wrestling, and BJJ to embody what "Judo" used to mean. Long live pre-2010 Judo!

[@MaxLohMusic]

@@vlada We "adapt" by training in other styles in addition to Judo.

[@steverodgers4662]

@@MaxLohMusic yup I took my judo and used it while being a bouncer in nightclubs.. served me well

[@valdivia1234567]

It's interesting. I went in the Army Infantry in 1987 here in the USA, and we still did a lot of these in our hand-to-hand sawdust pits.

[@EDC.EveryDayCode]

This is awesome! So great -the filming angles for showing how exactly they are moving!!

[@Evilknight91]

Super interesting, would love to see more

[@QuantumMechanic_88]

I'm waiting for Chadis' books to come out .

[@daneracamosa]

A key component in the first movement to The full Nelson is when he's lifting his hands up he's bracing the back of his wrist against his forehead supporting his cerebral spine. This keeps his spine in alignment and sets him up to do the throw. Without this key support the spine can be taken out of alignment with pressure thus negating the throw.

[@specialcombatdefensivetact1784]

Excellent breakdown.

[@QuantumMechanic_88]

Excellent as always Mr. Chadi . Thanks again for being the ultimate martial arts historian .

[@fredazcarate4818]

True lessons from the past. Chadi thank you fro producing another gem. God bless you and Merry Christmas

[@diosdadoapias]

learn criminal judo in the Philippines. It is not the Judo taught in commercial dojo. It is the Judo which the old folks learn to defend themselves in armed or unarmed attack. It is like wrestling or grappling, they catch the arms, forelegs, hips, armpit and head to use as handle to control, tumble or throw to the ground an opponent. They even grab the hair, ear and insert their finger in the nose to force it up while controlling an opponent.

[@carlosocatavious3363]

Great vid because the explanation is running along with the visuals, so there is no boredom... viewer is not subjected to long-winded pontificating.

[@qazmko22]

Man Chadi! you have so many videos that are amazing.

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@andrewruddy962]

Chadi, love your analysis, thank you,

[@sebastiannatera777]

On the front headlock, at frame 6:05, the crucial detail is there. The force isn't on the tricep pulldown, but on the back of the opponent's hand to create a pressure lock by bending the wrist. The tricep pulldown is more of show hand, get their mind off of the real attack, to a set up than the primary technique. I know, Chadi mentioned the wrist lock, but the pressure from torquing a wrist like that off of a peel could work. The wrist control is primary over the drop, not a reep, as the form of the takedown. It's a wrist lock takedown more than a low gate takedown.

[@AlCarou]

contra Full-Nelson: It is called seoi-otoshi, the movement. In full swing the throwside knee goes down on the tatami.

[@johnfranchina84]

I suggest the that hand to the forehead is to counter the full Nelson getting fully applied and locking the neck. After protecting his neck and stopping the technique destroying the defenders structure only then can you apply the throw

[@dianecenteno5275]

You would be correct! That application takes some of the pressure off the hold.

[@johnfranchina84]

Diane Centeo that’s how I was taught and how I teach it. A little tweak is to turn your hip just a fraction. And jam your elbow on the throwing side into the attacker’s arm to momentarily to block the attacker using their left hand to grab your hair or hook punch into the back of your head.

[@TheOriginalJAX]

IV actually learnt that counter to the nelson, it's all about in the initial hip drop from the starting position, the more vigour you do that initial movement with, the more effective your follow through will be when you go for the IPon, Although you can also turn it into other throws depending how low you go or off balance with the intimal movement. never known this is where it came from, Really cool.

[@sherrattpemberton6089]

That full nelson escape + counter was probably the most interesting of these. To me its the initial hands to the head that makes it work. It engages your spine and back muscles, and regains your body structure. Definitely cool

[@TheOriginalJAX]

@@sherrattpemberton6089 yeah true but be careful not to telegraph your movement, so timing+co=ordination is what matters with that. the aim is to get your centre of gravity below theirs so you can perfom/finnish the counter. It's like a recipe!

[@wendellbenedict4793]

On the defense against the full nelson the hands are placed against the forehead to keep uke from being able to crank the neck further forward. It's interesting that the karate I was taught in the early and mid 80's also included basic Judo and Jiu Jutsu.

[@knw-seeker6836]

Love these oldschool videos

[@kudoryubu-jutsu9893]

Chadi...the wrist lock defense vs. the guillotine choke is also found in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu...I've seen that very technique done before and we do it in my Kudo Ryu Bujutsu program as well. This technique is in Royce Gracie's & Renzo Gracie's book: "Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu | Theory & Technique, and can be found on page #168. This technique is performed vs. the "arm inside" variation of the guillotine choke!!! The technique is not exactly the same...but the wrist lock part is the same as in BJJ. ;)

[@napalminthemorning8309]

Brilliant video; loved it.

[@ttytty6940]

That full nelson defence is not raises hand to chop down, he actually brace the hand on his forehead to stop the pressure from the back of the head… dean lister shows this technique before here’s the video kzbin.info/www/bejne/iXKyipaCrpyXmpI

[@themaverickblackbelt8054]

@3:09 Wouldn't that be kizushi when he steps back with his right foot?

[@mandymedichi1135]

Great content. Keep the great Job !

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@henrikg1388]

Koshi Guruma or Kubi Nage is called a "neck toss" or a "neck throw" I think. In Swedish/Danish Greco-Roman it is called a "nacksving" anyway. That is how we referred to it in Judo as well, back then.

[@slipperydoorknob2173]

I may have commented about this on another video. Freestyle judo has a no-gi category competition. They also have a video from the AAU Midwest judo championship with 2 judokas w/o their gi.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

Yay i love that you talk a lot about grappling. And i also love no gi Judo, it feels more practical

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

Well, to be honest, it IS more practical

[@momoswandelndesschloss4047]

Yes a do a lot of no gi judo. Need to learn some grips and drills from wrestling and you are good

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

It's debatable at this point. Like no gi grappling allowed to use in every situations but the grips are harder to obtain. Gi grappling are transferrable to daily clothes, even when they got torn apart after the throw, it works great with winter jacket and you have more surface to grab on to

[@momoswandelndesschloss4047]

@@jaketheasianguy3307 from my experiance as a bouncer i must say, that the clothing aspect is overrated... its to slipery and you cant get a good grip in the moment. Its better to just go to the bodylock imo

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

@@momoswandelndesschloss4047 it kinda depends on the material. I practice with daily clothes from time to time (clearly because i don't want to rip my shirts in pieces through repetitive training) and the collar and the sleeves are the tightest area you could hold on to. Not to mention people who wear tuxedo or any kind of expensive suits with leather belts, that's when gi training really shine

[@JohnSmith-zc1bj]

Can you do a CUBAN JUDO video? LOVE the content!!

[@robertnewell4054]

The inimitable & legendary Dean Lister teaches a similar escape from the Full Nelson.

[@Rollsgracie4]

They headlock with rickson that you show there’s many ways out of that I’m sure you know. That one works for that exact situation. Even in pride you see that he has something to say when the guy illegally hooks his arm around the rope and headlocks Rickson. There’s an answer for that too frame then punches to the face . If guy really does a corkscrew unlock and makes it tight and twisted were and there’s nothing you can do you go with momentum between the legs and roll him super cool video I love all the different nuances of street Self-defense Japanese judo/ Brazilian judo jiujitsu...

[@Rollsgracie4]

But I understand how that Rickson choke you showed bases out and stops potentially anything else from happening things happen all by themselves sometimes

[@robertodabashian8687]

Chadi, I remember reading the self defense manual used in WWII and the full nelson technique was a little different from what you describe. The hands joined at the forehead are pressed against the forehead to prevent the opponent from pushing the head down further. The jump up is meant to provide the kuzushi in one direction while the sudden change in direction destroys balance in the other, allowing the throw.

[@bobnice3044]

That head lock escape is a legit move i have seen it several times on Rio Heros, what you don't see here is the motion needed he needs to be forced backwards and you need to be pushing away on his chest, in other words its an opposite motion escape, you body also needs to be high...there are a lot of headlock escapes but this is the most basic and the safest it would be my go to move if ever needed.

[@borobei]

Very nice and interesting. Does Sambo have all of these Judo throws, and do one needs more strength to perform the technique than the other? By the way, it was great to see old school Jujitsu. I have seen old Judo videos that kind of show where Judo and Jujitsu intersect.

[@Th3Barbarian01]

Awesome ! Thanks 🙏

[@Rollsgracie4]

Really like this video it’s a good one

[@davidspin5353]

Great info!

[@piperbob2]

I have a 1905 copy of "The Complete Kano Jiu - Jitsu" by H. Irving Hancock and Katsukuma Higashi. Would anyone know if it is of any great value ?

[@jaymorris3468]

I would say definately, just put it into Google.

[@piperbob2]

@@jaymorris3468 Thanks for the idea - just looked on Amazon: there's a hardcover version (which mine is) going for £855 - that's over $1,200 US.

[@guynguyen9175]

Excellent & very practical for NORMAL daily use (Street).

[@Ongyokage6389]

Love it!!!

[@mattc1447]

Nice video! Thanks Chadi. Not sure about some of the grip breaks especially the head lock and chicken wing escape which seem to rely on strength not leverage but interesting that the US army were doing 'Japanese' judo in WWII. Definitely effective throws however. Also more of a 'fighting' focus than judo seems to have had in my lifetime.

[@jimlasswell4491]

1945 + This was during our occupation of Japan after the war.

[@orlandocarrasquillo4481]

Getting out of a standing full nelson where he's pushing your head forward and you're pushing your head backwards with arms raised and the back of your hands resting on your forehead can possibly break your own neck. Some of the other defenses are also a bit sketchy too as far releasing pressure and breaking the hold to apply a throw. In real life, quite a few these only work with certain variables and others will not work at all.

[@momoswandelndesschloss4047]

You are right, but no one said it was easy

[@nathaniellococo2888]

Have you thought about doing a video on west African bear knuckle boxing wrestling

[@Chadi]

Did one on the Senegalese wrestling

[@nathaniellococo2888]

@@Chadi that's what I meant to say I was thinking what if you combine that with Greco Roman wrestling and French kickboxing along with submissions.

[@fitepitsnbonfires]

And yes very interesting.!good videos for us judo lovers.good stuff and fun!

[@xingyimaster1987]

Whats amazing is the fight at the beginning looks more realistic then 95 percent of self defense videos we see now. Its like the era of kung movies had a negative effect and people want flashiness over realism

[@Rollsgracie4]

The full Nelson that I was taught in Brazilian jiu jitdu/judo ? I think I like it better unless I’m missing something. Because the format if someone does a full Nelson on you and they’re way bigger and tall stronger you can’t even move you need to throw one leg in the air and then come down with the whole force of your body on one knee dropping a shoulder and sending him to the ground will work on a hard surface because you don’t bang your knee real hard The weight distribution works on your side. . get base and bring your elbows It can be used by just bringing your knee down if the guy‘s not huge and strong and tall. I’ll try yours see what I think?

[@Alex-xm6fs]

chadi i love your content god bless u brother

[@ramondiaz2851]

Excellent!!

[@shadowfighter6445]

This is really neat, thank you for sharing 😊.

[@kerpal321]

are these techniques good for defending against someone like bill cosby or Harvey Weinstein

[@achievingnirvana666]

Bruhhhhhhh

[@kerpal321]

@@achievingnirvana666 those are pretty much the exact kind of moves those type of guys would use against you if you were to find yourself alone with one of them

[@professorteacher3679]

Um vídeo tão bom, pergunto pq aparece Rickson Gracie "o segundo maior embuste do Jiu Jitsu"?

[@jeffreywright2294]

Very nice !

[@SuperPapadzul]

The video reads 1950 MCML

[@edwardhanch4128]

I do that front headlock escape a lot but I don't move my opponents arm, I just hold his hand and slide/roll my head to the front of their torso then up to the crook of their neck

[@devriestown]

When he's putting his hands together he's pushing his forehead back to be able to get out . I know it was fast but look up dean lester video how to escape the full Nelson 👍

[@user-bu2ls9lp1l]

So much of martial arts is lost because the "attack" is simulated incorrectly. 1st technique against a Full Nelson... depends on if they are actually trying to break your neck (that's what FN is for). That throw is great against a "I hold, you punch" application... but attempting that particular throw would actually assist someone in their Full Nelsion technique assuming they were trying to turn you into a quadriplegic. 2nd technique is also dangerous... never mind that unrealistic lift into the throw... there is a real risk of them falling on your lead leg as typically a headlock is applied with your weight pushing forwards. That frame is correct, but it lacks any form of pain compliance to motivate the person... meanwhile turning your head away from the attackers centerline ACTUALLY increases the choke it DOESNT reduce it... this is because it is harder to apply pressure to the brachial/windpipe when your head is turned towards them. The rest get progressively unrealistic... between being front headlocked with a single hand (just waiting to be wrist locked?) to the chicken wing escape where you tickle their incoming knee with your moustache while they just let you go?? (Stomping their feet means you have 1 point of contact on the ground, and ZERO posture to stabilize yourself... you're gonna eat Asphalt) If "understanding the physics" is important at all... one must appreciate the severe limitations of demonstrating techniques with simulated attacks. Uke's don't grow on tree's after all!

[@ttjcljgfjhmhv]

Sorry the first throw from the full nelson was not an ippon, it was a makikomi

[@senseihitmanwayofkempo8305]

I wish we could c that wrist move n the hadaka shime escape I wonder if fingers o some wrist lock move was used what I could c looked like maybe .... so I'm gonna do some experiments next class c if I can uncover the trick that instructor appeared 2 know his stuff otherwise ..... n past I've had luck w old school moves on those who disregard old school as out o touch o fake

[@michaelterrell5061]

Thank you for the video sir, the thing is that Wrestling is very limited as it has no submissions or joint locks and judo does. This makes judo a bit better in a self defense scenario or situation. Also again very great video sir as always.

[@momoswandelndesschloss4047]

Sure. But wrestler are very explosive and aggressive at command. This is something we lack and can learn from wrestling.

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

Catch wrestling have tons of submission techniques and even allowed alot of techniques that are banned in Judo in it's competition. The goal is not just to throw the other guy down, you can either win through pinning or submission with joint locks or neck cranks

[@momoswandelndesschloss4047]

@@jaketheasianguy3307 i never had the Chance to train catch. I Would love it

[@benbudin]

Wrestling is about control and dominance as the aim is to pin your opponent . Per example Greco-Roman is been effectively used as striking tool in the MMA game as it focus in the clich range control as is not allowed to attack bellow the belt. More notorious example Randy Couture. Is a big overlap with Free style and judo but tend to be more explosive free style than judo.

[@mrmoth26]

But wrestling (freestyle) has more varied takedowns, and most judo guys are not good at submissions anyway. It's like BJJ guys saying that their martial art trains takedowns but 90% of them train takedowns like twice a year and always butscoot and couldn't do a takedown if their life depened on it.

[@petergregora]

Why do thay have a xbox logo in the background?

[@devriestown]

Chadi im training judo three times a week lifting 4 times a week . Do you add wrestling to your training? I definitely think will take your all round game better because of the other take downs and body control .

[@edwardhoops6197]

With all due respect and many high school and college matches wrestling in my history, I think wrestling is a superior discipline to judo or Brazilian or Japanese jujitsu, or even Milpitas jujitsu.

[@lancehobbs8012]

Um...0:57 ...sorry was that supposed be an armlock? Ok

[@fitepitsnbonfires]

I'm sure you have to catch the wrist before he gets it locked or set or it's likely very tough to break free ive seen some tough guys ride the storm from the front choke but I'm sure it's a tough ride !

[@Good.shepherd420]

Dean lister covers the full nelson defense in detail

[@patrickcollins1855]

The hand chopping is classic Defendu.

[@wilb6657]

I just think it's interesting that the US military was training JUDO while we were at war with Japan.

[@JIUJITSUMAN22]

The second one is a Ushiro Goshi. The main point is push the uke's hips wich the belly. Don't pull wich the arms like in Sukui nague.

[@rossmantle2019]

I ain't done martial arts for ages, used to do judo and goshin jitsu but clubs are closed now. I've put on a lot of weight so I have to drop a bit, lower blood pressure, get fitter before I start a bjj club which is up the road from me. I love your videos though, I miss training, I'm forty ide love to get back into it just for a enjoyable hobby. But it's high intensity, health first.

[@10INCHCRUSHER]

I was on the recieving end of the judo guys throwing you around. That shit hurt my feelings.

[@Rollsgracie4]

You got to be careful on some of those flips someone w/ good chokes get ya right there (Punches) elbows Once again amazing video

[@edgardocarrasquillo9]

1950? MCML

[@blusuck]

1:25 dean lister showed that without the throw

[@brunolopes7311]

can you tell me where did you get that video? thanks

[@BURGAWMMA]

we used to do giless judo and sumo Hawaii back in the 80ties... They should have a Giless, Greco and freestyle version of Judo!!!

[@scarred10]

They do,its called freestyle judo but it's very minor in popularity

[@akumagouki8668]

I guess the best way to get out of a full nelson is to make sure the enemy doesn't know how to do it properly the catch wrestling way and they are copying the pro wrestling way lol the difference is like the sleeper hold nd rear naked choke.

[@angelolalo6364]

In regards to the full Nelson defence, what if the guy weighs 300 pounds? Lol

[@momoswandelndesschloss4047]

As a Judoka i learned a lot through wrestling training. There are a few things they do better than us. That said, judo is still the best art you can lean!

[@mrmoth26]

It's not

[@momoswandelndesschloss4047]

@@mrmoth26 😂 it is

[@mrmoth26]

@@momoswandelndesschloss4047 no, it's not.

[@momoswandelndesschloss4047]

@@mrmoth26 yes it is

[@mrmoth26]

@@momoswandelndesschloss4047 no it's not.

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

I still don't understand what stopped Judo from having an official no gi branch for practice and competition, clearly the japanese practiced it in the military. Yea you could basically join a no gi BJJ class and called it no gi Judo but it doesn't feel the same way.

[@maofas]

Real Gs wear Gis.

[@momoswandelndesschloss4047]

The ijf. They Are mostly to blame for everything that is wrong in todays judo

[@SI-ln6tc]

Kano die prematurely. There is even a form for if your in samurai armour. In fact a number of forms were left nameless. I think its quite possible there would have been one. Since Kano was covering multiple aspects of self defense. From armour samurais to sword and knife defense etc. Then of course newaza was also Incorporated in judo as well. I think the main problem now is the judo committee.

[@brucegrit8928]

I have this 📀,it's meant for military(the militarized version) police.jigora kano created judo as a SPORT!!! not as a method of self defense.

[@ebor8402]

This is 50s, not 40's

[@fredazcrate4362]

💯👍👊

[@Rollsgracie4]

Front headlock with a strong monster You have to walk your legs in close to him and grab your hands like a tree branch around his arm then just hang all your weight on his arm. At the right time you attack Sorry this jujitsu is got me slightly enthusiastic🤣😂😅

[@sebastiannatera777]

What are your thoughts on the hand peel actually being a wrist lock and this being more of a wrist lock takedown?

[@3Pillers]

👍

[@kustov1]

"Military judo" is a circus ))))

[@darylfields]

Judo way more useful for self-defense

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

Judo and wrestling (the real wrestling that was taught in WW1 along with Farbain and Syke) are both grappling arts with the same techniques. None is better or worse

[@darylfields]

@@jaketheasianguy3307 Yeah WW1 and WW2 they taught simple brutal techniques

[@momoswandelndesschloss4047]

@@jaketheasianguy3307 one could argue that judo is better if you are the smaller or weaker one. Wrestling depends a lot on athletics much more than judo. But judo is more technical and depends more on timing, therefor its more efficant against bigger opponents. But i love your respect for other styles!

[@mrmoth26]

@@momoswandelndesschloss4047 That's not true though. Both are equally technical and neither depends more on athleticism, judo is probably a bitmore athletic and worse for a small guy than freestyle wrestling and a bit less than greco. The only reason why people believe the myth that judo is more technical and wrestling more athletic is because they think that Asian = technical Euro-American = brutish Which is a complete BS myth.

[@mrmoth26]

No, it's not.