5. Moses and the Code of Hammurabi

The most enlightened example of civil legislation prior to Moses comes from the Babylonian ruler Hammurabi, who pre-dates Moses by at least 200 years. In this discussion, a comparison and contrast between the two great law-givers is provided, with a focus on the extent to which the law given through Moses shows a clearly superior approach to jurisprudence. For more free resources, please visit www.brucegore.com.

[@mvt28]

Shame this series is not on Netflix. Better than any tv show out there these days, maybe not by production value but by content for sure.

[@lesleyhowie1239]

I came across your lectures by accident and I'm so glad that I did. Your lessons are are clear and sequential. It's been a real refresher course for me plus more. ..Thank you so much.

[@jochemlambers]

I am not a believer myself, and I have to say, I have never heard a more compelling story, that is able to respect both faith and historical accuracy. Well done, sir. Fifth replay :)

[@GoreBruce]

I appreciate very much your interest and fair-mindedness. Thank you!

[@mrnoedahl]

Why not?

[@chriscuomo9334]

Haha you must be a genius

[@chickenmanfan4977]

@@mrnoedahlNo good reason to believe.

[@mrnoedahl]

@@chickenmanfan4977 That’s a good reason.

[@brandonjohnson801]

Thank you, Bruce Gore.

[@leosrule5691]

Earlier collections of laws include the Code of Ur-Nammu, king of Ur (c. 2050 BC), the Laws of Eshnunna (c. 1930 BC) and the codex of Lipit-Ishtar of Isin (c. 1870 BC), while later ones include the Hittite laws, the Assyrian laws, and Mosaic Law. In July 2010, archaeologists reported that a fragmentary Akkadian cuneiform tablet was discovered at Tel Hazor, Israel, containing a c. 1700 BC text that was said to be partly parallel to portions of the Hammurabi code. The Hazor law code fragments are currently being prepared for publication by a team from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

[@GoreBruce]

Thank you! Helpful!

[@knightsamurai1251]

I have been watching many of your videos and they are extremely good and educational thanks for making them.

[@699Akmal]

Your lecture , Sir, opened new avenue to think about the development of law between human and nature. Good and well organised.

[@GoreBruce]

Thank you!

[@lonw.7016]

Proportionate brought to my mind Solomon's judgement concerning the babe having two claimants as mother. Excellent lecture.

[@nutznchocolates56]

Lon W. Have you heard of Ta Seti?

[@carollancaster9462]

Solomon neversaid. Jesus had 2 mothers if i read thT right

[@worldtraveler8613]

One difference between the bible and every other religious text is that with other religions, their progenitors always exalt themselves in the text. In contrast the bible talks about all the mistakes and bad deeds done by kings and prophets, their lack of faith and shortcomings and fears, only exalting the Most High God. Jesus said he who bears witness of himself, his witness is not true. But he who comes in the name of another who sent him, his witness is true. Other religions are propaganda in which individual men make themselves out to be some great person above the rest of humanity, but the authors of the Word of God tell the truth about themselves and give praise to the Most High.

[@peaceful263]

Finally... learning and growing in the knowledge of The Doctrine of Life! Really like you and your style of teaching.

[@kylec8950]

I've come across a very interesting read by Bill Cooper, The Authenticity of the Book of Genesis. Among the many incredible findings within the book includes some pretty solid evidence that Amraphel the King of Shinar (Babylon) is Hammurabi.

[@antaug14]

This is exactly what I was looking for thank yoy

[@moshemo613]

An eye for an eye is a monetary statement -- if you cause someone to lose their eye, you have to make financial restitution equivalent to the damages caused. Take a look at Lev. 24: 17 onward.

[@strongfp]

Read the laws of Hammurabi, they all sort of intertwine with each other to the point where it gives who ever is convicting the offender(s) can choose a just punishment. But there is straight forward rules attached that make decisions quick. The eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, is also tied to a sort of monetary statement, for example, if you take the eye of a upper class person, the victim can do the exact same, to the offender as punishment. If you were a upper class person and you I guess, took the eye of someones slave, you simply just pay the slave owner some cash, or what ever. Moses, or who ever were the people following a crazy man wandering up in the hills talking to burning bushes took the ideas from Babylon, and when it fell they became the 'wandering' people, aka the Jews. There's an even older version of laws in which Hammurabi probably got his ideas from, they are called the code of Ur-Nammu. It's all linear dude... Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Ancient Egypt, Greek and Roman Pantheon, etc, etc. are basically all just over glorified forms of mainly Sun worship and laws built upon and improved over time.

[@moshemo613]

@Rene Gade It is both Exodus and Leviticus. It is just easier from the passage in Leviticus to see what is the meaning of the phrase. To see why, let's take a closer look at that passage in Leviticus. Here is my (partial) translation of the passage in Leviticus: "A man who strikes the life of a person shall be put to death. And if strikes the life of a domesticated animal, ישלמנה; a life תחת a life. And if a man shall cause some defect in his fellow-man - according to what he did shall be done to him; a break תחת a break, an eye תחת an eye..." Let's make a few observations. This passage discusses three basic cases: - A man killing another man - A man killing another person's animal - A man causing bodily harm to another person The first two cases are phrased essentially the same: - Striking the life (נפש) of a person - Striking the life (נפש) of a domesticated animal What is different are the consequences: - Take the life (נפש) of a human being: capital punishment. - Take the life (נפש) of an animal: ???. So what should we put in place of those questions marks? To answer that question let's remind ourselves of our partial translation: - Strike the life of a domesticated animal, ישלמנה; a life תחת a life. We have two words that we have to translate. The first is ישלמנה. The root of that word is שלם. It is used numerous times to mean making financial payment. For example: - If a person damages someone else's property by fire he shall שלם (pay) for the damages caused (Ex. 22: 5) - If a person borrows someone's animal and the animal dies under his care, the borrower shall שלם (pay) for the dead animal (Exodus: 22: 13). There are other examples. So we can translate the first word: - Strike the life of a domesticated animal, he shall pay [money]; a life תחת a life. Now we need to work on the word תחת. Before we do, though, let's note that this is the exact same word that is used in the next verse when we talk about below with regards to breaking legs and eyes: - a break תחת a break - an eye תחת an eye So clearly understanding the meaning of this word is essential for answering our question. To do so, we will turn to Exodus 21: 35 - 36. That passage discusses almost the exact same case; namely a person causing the death of someone else's animal. The only difference is how the death was caused: - Leviticus: a man kills someone else's animal - Exodus: a man's ox kills someone else's ox The case in Exodus, though, is a bit more sophisticated. There are two variations discussed of one's persons ox killing someone else's ox. In the first variation, the owner was NOT negligent in guarding his ox. In the second case the owner WAS negligent in guarding his ox. The distinction leads to different consequences: - Not negligent: BOTH parties each pay HALF of the financial loss - Yes negligent: the owner of the killer ox ALONE pays for the FULL financial loss. Now, let's note how the case of paying the full amount is phrased: - he shall pay (שלם) - an ox תחת an ox These are the exact same words as used in Leviticus. And now we can start to put it all together. In Leviticus, we are comparing the TYPE of crime: - Killing a man is a CAPITAL crime - killing an animal is a CIVIL crime - Maiming another human being is is also a CIVL crime [NOTE: maiming is also a non-capital crime, but that is not discussed in this passage] In Exodus, on the other hand, we are making a different comparison; namely, between LEVELS OF RESPONSIBILITY within the same CIVIL offense. - No negligence: BOTH parties pay - Yes negligence: ONLY the owner of the killer ox pays In both passages, though, there is another legal question that needs to be addressed; namely, HOW MUCH does one have to pay for the civil offense? The full amount? Double? Quadruple? Something else? That question is NOT answered by the word שלם. It is, though, answered by the word תחת. This is clear in the passage in Exodus where it states that the negligent owner will pay, "an ox תחת an ox". In other words, the AMOUNT to be paid is to be equivalent to the AMOUNT of damage done (nothing more, nothing less). This is opposed to the case where there is NO negligence and he pays only HALF. In other words, the word תחת means to GIVE something of equivalent value in place of something else. In this case, it means giving something of equivalent financial value. In other cases it talks about different value. In all cases, though, it talks about giving something in place of something else. For example: - G-d gave Eve another child תחת (in place of) of Abel - Abraham offered up a ram תחת (in place of) his son Isaac - Judah offered to stay as a slave in Egypt תחת (in place of) his brother Benjamin So too "an eye תחת an eye". The passage is telling us that one has to give the value of an eye in compensation for the value lost due to the loss of the eye. We could make a similar analysis of the passage in Exodus. The case is of two men who are fighting and inadvertently strike a pregnant women. In one variation of this case, the women herself is okay but the fetus dies. In another variation the women herself is either maimed or killed. In the second variation we are being told that the amount of compensation that the guilty party has to pay has to be equivalent to the amount of damage done. A quick look at the cases before and after this section will show that only in the case of murder do we inflict punishment on the body of the guilty party. Otherwise, the consequence is compensation for the injured party. 21: 18 discusses a case where a man hits another man with a rock or his fist and the injured man survives. The guilty party has to pay for his loss of work and his medical expenses. 21: 20 notes that a man will be executed if he strikes and kills his slave. 21: 25 states that a slave goes free if his master strikes him so hard that he loses his eye or his tooth. Again, we have the word תחת in terms of compensation to the injured party. The slave is set free תחת his eye or תחת his tooth.

[@photosynthesis69]

@@strongfp you made me read all that just to get to the bottom and you say Christianity is sun worship? Lololol bruh

[@oyindamolalawal2799]

Prof Gore, thanks for the depth of your amazing lectures. More grace in Jesus name, Amen. I watched a video in 2019 on social media and in that video, a woman accused of stealing underwent the singeing of the tongue ritual. After examining her tongue, she was declared innocent.This happened somewhere in an Arabic country in this very modern era, at least by my own estimation,the video was made after year 2015. I wondered at the severity of such a test of innocence, but having listened to this teaching, I know the origin of the tongue singeing ritual. Thanks prof. And have a great day

[@kylec8950]

Thanks for sharing this amazing series of lectures! I;m using it along with R.J. Rushdoony's course of world history.

[@joankienzey3215]

J Ll J

[@mrnoedahl]

Another great teaching. Thank you sir. I miss the Sunday school lesson.

[@khaulaiftikhar3507]

Sir you have alot of knowledge i just want to visit ancient places all civilizations this is only bcoz.of your way of talking

[@scottleft3672]

The best law of hammurabi i like... is one of the building code laws that says ..If a builder skimps on quality (and they could legally allow for and expect a quarter of the price more if they went over budget) and if that house or a balcony collapses and kills the owners son....the builders son would be killed....these days the builder would be fined.

[@allangibson8494]

Not if the building is out of warranty....

[@michelley9203]

What about the similarities between the 10 commandments and the laws of Ma at?

[@thecrew1871]

Mr Gore, Sir, could you please add to your description of this lecture a notation about which pages of your book that goes each lecture? I am trying to read each portion of the book before watching the corresponding lecture & am having difficulty with the process. Thankyou

[@figaroverdi]

Absolutely love these lectures. God bless.

[@debras3806]

Wow. Stumbled across your videos while preparing a teaching on William Carey and am super grateful. You have just the right mix of historical, cultural, biblical, etc data. Really phenomenal. I admit I was disappointed, in view of your obvious intelligence and willingness to go into detail about many things others gloss over, with your cursory treatment of the trial by ordeal in Moses. That particular passage and many others like it that also appear unjust and sexist from our vantage point in history have caused me to doubt my faith severely and almost leave it. Your theory that it has a psychological element could be both true and helpful, and I wondered if you'd be willing to do a video elaborating on that?

[@GoreBruce]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll keep your suggestion in mind. Having practiced law for some years, I have a fair amount of interest in the topic. As to the "unjust and sexist" attitudes of the Bible, please keep in mind that any fair assessment of a standard of practice of a civilization in distant history demands evaluating the culture against other contemporary cultures, rather than against views taken for granted thousands of years later. Judged by the standards of the day, it would be hard to find a more progressive culture than the culture espoused in the values of Moses' code. Thanks again for your interest!

[@debras3806]

@@GoreBruce Thanks!

[@nickferraro5775]

I love learning these lessons and others like it. Does anyone know if he still teaches, and if anyone knows more great info teachings on ancient topics similar to these.?

[@GoreBruce]

Thanks for the feedback. Please visit my channel at kzbin.info/door/99vZUe84LuuZQKzf_l_M3A?view_as=subscriber

[@christiankraft2447]

I am a sheep without a Shepard. I have Jeshua and a well developed opinion on the hermeneutics of my decernment. You evangelize well for the Presbyterians. I lack submission to a council of elders as I don't agreeing with the eschatology of most churches that I am aware of around me. Thanks for your well studied perspective and directive.

[@GoreBruce]

Thank you.

[@mikev4621]

Interesting that medieval Christian Europe revived the river ordeal method of determining guilt : ) Moses allows for stoning to death , which is fairly barbaric . Consider also that the threat alone, of having one's tonged burnt with a hot iron, might have been sufficient to get the truth out of a suspect. Old testament law also allowed the guilty to slip away the night before their appointed stoning.

[@lonw.7016]

The reason I am posting so much this time... am strict fundy and this period of time concerns a bunch of ongoing discussions I am having in Paltalk inside Atheists vs Christians. Edit: really have discovered a need to upgrade my existing notes on ancient "False gods." I don't know why this comes up in debate so often? The ideas creep me out. My purpose is to give strength to "new" Christians that enter this group and are examining their own questions.

[@d3g3n3r4t3]

from how i see it, the "false gods" seem to equate to "fallen angels", while people like gilgamesh or other hybrids....are just that, the "nephelim" the sons of god who found the daughters of man pleasing and bed them. tho my knowledge of ancient lore is still weak so specific relations of who yhwh would equate to i cant say

[@timw4383]

@@d3g3n3r4t3: Nephelim is just another way of saying demigods like, Hecules and Achiiles. They never existed.

[@darmok-hm6jx]

@@timw4383 The Nephilim are alive today. They are the bullies that no one likes. Strong's Hebrew (Gen 6:4) There wereH1961 giantsH5303 in the earthH776 in thoseH1992 days;H3117 and alsoH1571 afterH310 that,H3651 whenH834 the sonsH1121 of GodH430 came inH935 untoH413 the daughtersH1323 of men,H120 and they bareH3205 children to them, the sameH1992 became mighty menH1368 whichH834 were of old,H4480 H5769 menH376 of renown.H8034 H5303 ????? ?????? nephi^yl nephil nef-eel', nef-eel' From H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant: - giant. Total KJV occurrences: 3 King James Concordance H5303 ??? / ???? nephi^yl / nephil Total KJV Occurrences: 2 giants, 2 Gen_6:4, Num_13:33 Brown-Driver-Briggs H5303 ??? / ???? nephi^yl / nephil BDB Definition: 1) giants, the Nephilim Part of Speech: noun masculine A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H5307

[@DavidPrice-jr5uk]

Interesting

[@GeorgeFranquiz]

Very well explained, Glory to man or Glory to the Creator. Moises was guided every step of the way, Hammurabi was a politician Shalom

[@billbb]

yeah

[@warwickkeene363]

The explanation about Lex Calionis and the code of Hammurabi is fascinating. It is patently clear there is where the Bible came from - the Jews were held captive in Babylon during the time the bible was being written, so it is nonsense to say it is the word of god, it is quite clearly received wisdom from earlier civilisations.

[@robertpennington6415]

I'm pretty sure if someone is breaking into your house, you have the right to defend yourself regardless of day or night...Maybe not in your state

[@gilgalbiblewheel6313]

Hammurabi, says the Strong’s concordance Amraphel from Genesis 14

[@gilgalbiblewheel6313]

Genesis 14:1 (KJV) 1 And it came to pass in the days of Amraphel king of Shinar, Arioch king of Ellasar, Chedorlaomer king of Elam, and Tidal king of nations; Results for H569 - 'Amraphel אַמְרָפֶל Outline of Biblical Usage: Amraphel = "sayer of darkness: fall of the sayer" the king of Shinar (Babylon) (perhaps Hammurabi c 2100 BC)

[@MarkieB89]

@@gilgalbiblewheel6313 WOW

[@MarkieB89]

Thanks for that!!

[@rosesacks7430]

a lot of today's politicans would be roughly impacted by these rules

[@susanroutt6690]

Haven’t listened to this yet, but I wonder. Were the Ten Commandments written in cuneiform on clay “tablets”? Ziggurats are sacred mountains. Let’s substitute ziggurat for Mt. Sinai, and clay tablets for stone tablets.

[@joanhuffman2166]

15:44 Lex Talionis (the name) seems to be based on a wrong understanding or a wrong judgment of the eye for an eye principle in law. Too many use it to justify personal vengeance, which is often disproportionate, i.e., you gouge out the eye of my brother and my other brothers, cousins, and friends, attack you, your brothers, your family and friends including killing and several eyes gouged. Instead, the eye for an eye means that you gouge the eye of my brother and only you have an eye gouged out.😮

[@chrisnewbury3793]

I think this is related to Odin, the one-eye. In fact I believe Odin was Nimrod, which is where the Babylonian system of law came from.

[@tim707max]

What are all these videos on this channel. Is it just a study going through through the bible? Is this a recording from a college seminary?

[@GoreBruce]

This is a study of the historical context of the biblical narrative offered as an adult Sunday School class. The presenter has taught similar material at the college level over the years (Whitworth University). Thanks for your interest.

[@randallperkins541]

Bruce Gore are you familiar with the work of Meredith Kline? I am a huge fan of his "Kingdom Prologue", I am still Presbyterian... OPC Elder in Houston these days.... I always look back to your influence with great fondness brother.

[@GoreBruce]

This is an adult education class at First Presbyterian Church, Spokane. Thanks for your interest!

[@GoreBruce]

I'd love to correspond a bit more if you have time. Shoot me an e-mail at [e-mail]. Blessings!

[@darrinwebber4077]

Chuckle. Yes. Hammurabi understood the three pillars of government very well. * Propaganda. * Privileges. * Punishment

[@lynnmitzy1643]

Ooo, don't accuse your brother , one of you is in trouble. Now, I know why I got *it* for tattling.

[@gageferguson9055]

I’m just curious as to why this man is so intent on selling us Moses over Hammurabi.

[@rickhall517930]

Bruce 'he's a good looking guy' Gore lol

[@terrypowers9820]

I know the timeline does not add up to what society wants us to believe I could spill it out for you but that would take a year think beyond what you're taught question everything

[@johnno.]

Sounds gay

[@nutznchocolates56]

What a about Ta Seti?

[@sigabra3274]

how it works bismAllah Whenever We abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or one equal to it. Do you not know that Allah is powerful over everything? Quran 2:106 Whenever We replace a verse with another verse - and Allah knows well what He reveals - they say, “You are but a forger.” The fact rather is that most of them are ignorant. Quran 16:101 peace

[@kkKey-py7lk]

We speak akkidin

[@clarkent61]

So the law of Hamurabi and the law of Moses both condoned chattle slavery but the slavery of Moses though exactly the same as Hamurabi comes from God?

[@shuiqlazam]

@approx 24 minutes, you discuss jumping in the river and if you make it, you basically win. I think you missed the key point to rule #2. Do not make false accusations. The cost is possibly your life. If the other guy knows how to swim, you'd be careful to accuse him. This is similar to Jesus - let he who is without sin as well as the classic story of the baby and King Solomon.

[@shuiqlazam]

holy moly, i paused the video to make the statement above. When i started the video.... here comes rule #3

[@curbroadshow]

The ‘let he who is without sin’ story was added centuries later.

[@kkKey-py7lk]

We see Dived how keep god order

[@IFoundMyNiche5200]

Nimrod established the city of Babylon and he was a Canaanite.. amirite established nothing

[@BrittardWatts]

Nimrod did not

[@titopabonjr.1310]

That's why God chose them, to be an example to the other pagan nations.

[@clarkent61]

If God choose them to be an example, does this mean they are/were better than others? If Goldwater to model a new way to live, why would God not do away with slavery? Why would God condone the abomination of slavery in His supposed exhibition of a new way? I reject such a God and such an absurd premise.

[@lisamzara]

Can i consider this video a reliable source to add into an essay?

[@clarkent61]

If there is any similarity between the Mosiac law and the code of Hamurabi, the benefit of the doubt belongs to Hamurabi, as Moses wrote his law 300 years after Hamurabi.

[@ulrikanilsson531]

Mose didnt write the Laws. God wrote them with his finger.

[@tietearoddy]

​@@ulrikanilsson531 which god though? There were many of them

[@ulrikanilsson531]

@@tietearoddy The God who wrote the Law which Moses recieved was the God of the Bible. The Lord of hosts. Jehovah

[@erichepperle5902]

24:00 - Trial by #ordeal

[@clarkent61]

If Moses copied Hamurabi please say so plainly.

[@weeperman6659]

Paul writes in Romans 3:29- "Is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not the God of the Gentiles also? Yes, of the Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith." This is not a novel concept to Paul, Jesus also taught a similar idea when he started his public ministry and told those he was preaching to at a synagogue that the prophets Elijah and Elisha were rejected by those who should have been receptive, and subsequently were sent to minister to "pagans."

[@CorePathway]

Pity God just plain ignored all of the rest of the world for tens of thousands of years. Makes no sense to me why He’d just leave them in the dark for so long to focus on one group of goat-herders. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@unitewithch]

@@CorePathwayof course it makes sense. Paul in Roman’s 1-2 succinctly explains exactly why.

[@CorePathway]

@@unitewithch Wrathful God is such obvious anthropology it’s embarrassing. It’s impossible for the true Creator to have human emotions like Anger. He is so so so so so so SO much more evolved and enlightened.

[@unitewithch]

@@CorePathway I’m guessing you probably read up to the word wrath and then the rest is kinda like blah blah blah…The point he makes is so much bigger, than that but I guess if that’s what you got out of it, good for you!

[@CorePathway]

@@unitewithch “…but this is what it really means”. I can accept that’s what’s required to bridge 2000 years of human development (like the fact that ummm…slavery is evil). But the plot holes are too big for me to credit God with authorship. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@jamesquinlan8648]

you can not conclude that that the 10 commandments were not of God simply by identifying them in Hammurabi's code.

[@GoreBruce]

I fully agree! In fact, Hammurabi's Code could be construed as an argument in favor of General Revelation, a law of nature known by all intuitively, as St. Paul suggests in his well-known mention of the topic at Romans 2:12ff.

[@jpaul1599]

@maria kerrid - what's your point. If you don't believe in the Word of God and Christ that's your prerogative.. Faith in Christ is all about salvation by grace (not works) and finally at the end of the Millennium reign of Christ Man's redemption and Believers Resurrection to Life. Shalom

[@migmontest]

The Amorites, amirite?

[@built4speed101]

Mr. Gore, I know who's most definitely not found in the Old and New Testaments of Scriptural canon, the Black Hebrew Impostorites!! Thank you for your informative videos on Biblical History and Truth! 😎👍

[@GoreBruce]

Yes, I rather agree. Thanks for the kind feedback!

[@happyman42]

Does a wonderful job but Jacob and Esau couldn't have been born in 1700s bc the exodus was 1400 and he has no account for the 400 years of slavery

[@xavierbesnard9201]

Always interesting . Nevertheless it's a pity that B.Gore shifts the Hebrews''events 200 years too late. Abraham'birth occured in 2166 BC and he died in 1991 BC. According B.Gore, he lived at the flourishing period of Ur. His travel seems a so more logical nonsense. But when God speaks ....

[@VSP4591]

I do not get it. If we want a comparative analysis of laws why not to take as well Egypt, Canaan, Hittite kingdom etc. The video compares a legislative system of a state with a long history and traditions with that of a migratory and illiterates population running from Egypt. It was very unclear how they informed the population about the 10 Commandments. In Hammurabi case was a Stela, in case of Moses was the Arc of Covenant where the 10 Commandments were in-scripted in stone. Nobody could ever seen these stone tablets due to the fact that who touched the Arc would die in flame. The tablets with the laws were not for display in Moses case. The Hebrew had to believe Moses from what he said. Probably this was why the Hebrew almost always reverted to pray to the golden calf.

[@lonw.7016]

I guess Hammarabi's Stele was treated as plunder by the Elamites when it was displayed in Susa. In the same, exact sense that it is displayed in Paris today? Am thinking this could have happened during the mandates? Haven't looked it up. Edit... You answered it for me 1901.

[@GoreBruce]

The stele was discovered in 1901 (before the mandates), by Egyptologist Gustave Jéquier.

[@lonw.7016]

Thanks, hey? Have been collecting notes on the Bible and its many asundry bits for years (hadn't really thought about it... time wise) and your knowledge in the lectures are adding quite a bit. Thanks, sir. Checked the price of your book on Amazon. In the future will add it to my collection of stuff. Am in the market (today because i saw it yesterdayat the swap meet $20) for an 1851 pocket bound Bible with an intact leather latch. By the American Bible Society. Will send it to my gal. She lives in Melbourne and she will just treasure it. She loves Jesus too. :)

[@lonw.7016]

This brings up more thoughts. Am very worried about the Egyptian historical artifacts that "are" in Cairo, for instance. And the Syrian artifacts in probably the National Museum in Damascus. Turmoils of today, maybe it is wise that some of the stuff is in Europe.

[@GoreBruce]

You may be right, although it does seen that certain chapters in the history of archeology look a bit more like 'plunder' than science!

[@johniekemp]

Lon W. |

[@Billy-the-kid1]

The Israelites stole the code of law of Hammurabi, placed God stamp on it and sold it in the Old Testament.

[@bg81973]

A lot of people ignorantly make a big deal of Hammurabi's code and the Epoch of Gilgamesh being written before the books of Moses. It is clear in scripture that before God called Abraham out of Ur, there was no specific group set-aside to represent God on earth. Had the people of earth been faithful and honest in relating God's will to the people around them, there would have been no need to separate a people for the purpose. Of course God tried to reveal Himself to these pagan nations and because of their ignorance and deceit, God had to start anew with a very select and very sincere group of people to record the truth of history and reveal God's nature to man. The fact that these events were recorded before Moses is exactly what would be expected if God had tried to make Himself known to the world before Abraham. So once again, this fact does not dispute scripture but helps to explain it.

[@otherworld11]

GOD CAN MAKE JEWS OUT OF STONES - MATT 3:9

[@ElZarko751]

​@@otherworld11 dumb scripture that is Matthew

[@robertmartin7633]

Abraham never could have lived during the time of Hammurabi. I think you're using a Masoretic Bible to do your Exodus calculations. It's mathematically impossible for Kohath, Amram and Moses to have lived during a 430 year period, add up their years. You have to switch the Septuagint where it says they were in Egypt for 215 years. This will push Abraham back to the fall of Ur in 2004 BC, exactly how Genesis 14 says.

[@leosrule5691]

I only hope that people are actually reading the old testament Bible for themselves. I was raised on these stories of the Hebrew Bible and directed to certain scripture verse for the lesson taught as the preacher interpreted it. But as an adult I actually read it for myself, blanking out the bias of my upbringing. I read it as a book, even a study. It is truly remarkable to see how truly selfish the Hebrews were (as told by their own writings) and evil in their wars against others .. and ungrateful for the gifts of others (very often by Egyptians). I was astonished at this truth - yet told as though they were persecuted and misunderstood. If you read it with an open mind and open eyes you will be horrified. Anyway, I am glad to see a preacher bringing archaeology into a forum vs Bible, but I am disappointed at how much he is bending the narrative to still favor the biblical view. What IF all these archaeological finds of these recent times and empowerment to interpret them is the will of God to get the truth to us after so much time has been spent in the 'dark ages'?. What IF the story of Enki & Enlil is the true story? What if we are supposed to wake up to something the ancients knew but we will refuse because we will let someone tell us what to believe and how to believe it. It's time for ppl to do their own thinking and actually read and investigate these things to come to their own conclusions/truth.

[@seasons1146]

leos rule you're a smart person. i think greatness awaits you in the future

[@syedsamyullaamanullashah6840]

And again it is not the god shamash but shams. that only means sun. not sun god.

[@syedsamyullaamanullashah6840]

it is not shamash the word is pronounced shams. the academia is more interested in fame than correct translations. and their understanding of facts is extremely poor because these guys are just so full of it.

[@EMan-cf8lv]

Syed Samyulla Amanulla Shah no you are wrong buddy. The word Shamash is Aramaic and most of Arabi is taken from Aramaic. The word Quran, the word Iqra the word Raheem and so much more is not Arabi but Aramaic. I am an Assyrian Ninevehvite and my mother tongue is neo Syriac modern day Aramaic. And we use the word Shamasha now as the word for priests. The word Shimsha is the word for Sun. Origin of Shamash Akkadian Šamaš absolute form of šamšu/sun šmš-pronunciation Shamsha

[@elpkhan]

I thought Moses tongue was singed and that's why he had a speech impediment . That is why he personally didn't like that law .

[@GoreBruce]

+rafael picon Interesting!

[@franceskamryn102]

sir I thoroughly enjoy listening to you however Hammer always cold to Moses law is a terrible comparison because Moses never knew Hammurabi Moses never lived during the time of home arrival Moses lived and was educated in Egypt he was illiterate prior to going to Egypt the Bible says I'm the god of your father that you learned while you were yet in Egypt so if you look at the book of the day Moses stole the 10 commandments and then did what every other Hammer robberies do and Nation built and remade the same story and so to give his people pride and jealousy within themselves so they wouldn't live as individuals and act like a solid unit

[@almanzaalex]

The real question is. Did Moses exist? That's the true debate.

[@340ironman]

The Acadian version David Icke mentions is much older. Moses version might be plagiarized.

[@saulhidalgo1581]

@@andriesquast2028 wow so your just hear to justify your confirmation biased how do you know that doubting the existence of a biblical figure means I am or anyone who questions your beliefs an atheist? Your truth is yours alone and limited by your religious beliefs.

[@rayzas4885]

Yes he existed

[@williammosley8026]

I think manly p hall says Moses is the title of the high sun priest. Worth a Google

[@jerrydick2306]

There is evidence of 10 plagues in Egyptian history. A tribe of people migrates from Egypt to Canaan where they are accused of being a nuisance . Must have been a phenomenal leader. Evidence from Egyptian writings.

[@timw4383]

Too religiously biased for my taste, but some very good historical points.

[@paradisecityX0]

Tim W Helluva lot better than being atheistically biased

[@timw4383]

@@paradisecityX0: You ran off. I guess it was too much for you.

[@paradisecityX0]

@@timw4383 "Ran off" from what?

[@timw4383]

@@paradisecityX0: Our discussion about Noah, Creation, and the Exodus.

[@paradisecityX0]

@@timw4383 Where was this?

[@d3g3n3r4t3]

hah! "It was a pretty good size...unit." HAH

[@paradisecityX0]

I must correct you here: Jacob and Esau lived a century before Hammurabi. Joseph was in Egypt around 1900 BC. Moses was of course 1446 BC, during the reign of Thutmoses lll

[@timw4383]

Moses never existed, and there was no Exodus. The first four books of Moses were written during the reigns of Ahab and his queen, Jezabel. The fifth book, Deuteronomy, may have been written by Jeremiah during the reign of Josiah. Therefore, each of the books containing the Law WERE based on the "Egyptian book of the Dead," and the "Code of Hammurabi."

[@paradisecityX0]

@@timw4383 Prove your extraordinary claims. Ah, you're a proponent of the JEPD theory right? That's no longer held in high regard in biblical scholarship, nor is the supposed influence of Hammurabi's code. However there are literary and stylistic traces from the Book of the Dead but that would only confirm Moses' hand in it, since he was trained in the ways of Egypt

[@timw4383]

@@paradisecityX0: JEPD, Lol No, I'm not. LOL That is one of the biggest mistakes in religious studies history. But I dont accept your comment about Hammurabi. The image of Hammurabi on top of the mountain receiving his great law code from his god speaks volumes. Since Moses never existed it's unlikely he had anything to do with "The Egyptian Book of the Dead." P.S. The names of God used in the Old Testament are often relevant to the narrative. For instance, Hagar's narrative in Genesis chapter 16 is the Exodus. She names God "the God who sees me." Later when she is put out by Abraham God will hear the child. When he calls Moses he will repeatedly say to Moses "I have seen," "I have heard." It's the Exodus.

[@paradisecityX0]

@@timw4383 That theme is common in various cultures. I don't remember a mountain involved but whatever. Again, prove your extraordinary claim that Moses never existed. Yeah, it's called foretelling

[@timw4383]

@@paradisecityX0: I have already explained the reasons for a common theme in various religions. The mountain scene is there and its older than the idea of Moses and his mountain top experience. Hammurabi[a] (c. 1810 BC - c. 1750 BC) was the sixth king of the First Babylonian Dynasty, reigning from 1792 BC to 1750 BC (according to the Middle Chronology), Wikipedia

[@Wawas318]

our rabbis explain EYE FOR AN EYE is a financial payment , the Vilna Goan points out that eye for an eye is a financial payment is alluded from the letters of the word itself , עין תחת עין (ayin tachat ayin) (eye for an eye) the word תחת (tachat) in Hebrew can mean either For or After so the Villa Goan explains the word עין by taking the letters AFTER the Hebrew letters of עין which are פ,כ,ס which spells out כספ (kessef) which translates to money in Hebrew

[@GoreBruce]

Helpful. Thank you!

[@charlitoadams777]

10 commandments came from the 42 Laws of Ma'at which, the papyrus is at the British museum.

[@GoreBruce]

But Ma'at knew nothing of strict monotheism, prohibitions against graven images, or Sabbath. He was also not very clear on 'coveting,' but did include, as most lawgivers have, regulations of theft, murder, etc.

[@charlitoadams777]

Bruce Gore Monotheism started in Egypt with the God Amun Ra. He was the true God. Egyptians saw god in everything. The wind, earth, water etc. Which everything has a spec of God in this world. Jesus called his disciples god. Jesus also said you can do the same works I've done and even greater works than me. I just found out that Nubia( Sudan ) is the mother to Egypt. The hieroglyphics and some of the Egyptians gods started there. Anyway thanks for a response. I like to hear both sides.

[@GoreBruce]

Fair enough. Thanks for your interest!

[@Gentilejedi]

Charlito Mani Egyptians were henotheists. Belief in many gods with a supreme deity.

[@charlitoadams777]

GentileJedi I agree with you.

[@clarkent61]

If God comes to his people at Sinai and gives them a convenant, what about the rest of us? Are we just merely incidentals? Are we not worthy of God’s attention? Personally, I do not believe this crap. If God wants to talk to me I am willing to listen, but I will not accept a subordinate status to anyone. If God created us all equally, He she not show favoritism to anyone. I don’t believe the slant this presents is making.

[@AllenWorshiperofJesus]

What do you mean? You have access to the covenant of Christ. It's universal and available to the entire human race.

[@davidnoone3254]

Assad shows the old Middle East is not dead.

[@clarkent61]

It is well that this presenter makes fun of some of the laws of Hamurabi. There are equally some bizarre laws found in the 613 laws of Moses. This presenter is not objective

[@andruwxx]

I only had to hear the preacher voice to tune out. The ammorites, Hittites, Egyptians, Babylonians, Cannanites, Babylonians and Persians took their turn using y’all for target practice.

[@1rayw]

Hammurabi's Code was of course God's Code because as we know, all the "Great" Kings were called God and their messengers were called angels. History should never be bastardized by religious followers simply because they want everything to agree with history written by earlier religious zealots. I wonder if that great chunk of rock is still Noah's undersized ship? The Hapiru [Cimmerians per Herodotus] were thrown out of Sumer due to the economic problems they caused, the same is believed to have happened in Egypt as it has wherever they have lived. Noses obviously brought down Hammurabi's code for the Hebrews to follow as Moses obviously lived by that code whilst out of Egypt. The Code that Mr Gore is quoting does not bear down upon the ten commandments or any of the laws shown in the bible for good reason, he does not want similarity to be shown. Moses got his epic of Gilgamesh [Noah] from this King.

[@1rayw]

+Leijona totuus No, I do not believe that Moses was a myth, he wath a Mythter. Seriously, Moses was the son of the Pharaoh Thoth-Moses 3 or even earlier to Thoth-Moses 1 or 2. The 18th Dynasty supplied both the Hebrews [Jews] and the Christians with the birth of their religions [Christians followed the Jews and then Muslims followed them] Almost all one God following religions have the 18th dynasty of Egypt to thank for that. Religious scholars know what I say is true but reject it because they do not want the world to know that we [Jews Christians and Muslims are basically Sun and Moon worshipers, we the sun and the Muslims the moon].

[@szczecho]

+Raymond warren all ancient religions were based in astrolonomical phenomenons, people warshiped Cosmos as the Highest God, the Sun as his Son and the Virgin Wisdom as the Holy Spirit 12 disciples - 12 zodiac signs and so and so on...

[@1rayw]

+Leijona totuus No, Moses was a mythter, his wife was a myth before he married her.

[@1rayw]

+szczecho Xodiak signs were used predominantly as harvest calendars, they were never worshiped as Gods at any time to my knowledge. If you do a little research, you will fins that all round the world, primitive peoples were sun worshipers. The Australian Aborigine was perhaps the exception as they believed in spirits of the trees, the sky, different animals the earth and water rather than a god.

[@szczecho]

Raymond warren 12 Gods of Olympus