A Comprehensive Guide To Atheism, Purpose, & The Afterlife | Alex O’Connor

[@justmbhman]

An incredible, cinematic intro and the first question asked is "What do you think about Hawk Tuah Podcast" 💀

[@mattb4251]

Welcome, Einstein. What's your favorite type of bread? 😑😑😑

[@sverdmester]

And the first question is for you Karl Marx: The Hammers... The Hammers is the nickname of what English football team?

[@CezarBianu]

@@sverdmester Westham UTD

[@williambrun2952]

If there's one thing Alex sucks at, it's realizing when whoever he's talking to is completely lost 😂

[@boohoo5419]

his judgement has to be bad to even apear on this podcast. these two a fraudster the internet makes fun off. you just have to google a bit. its not that hidden.

[@jswew12]

⁠​⁠@@boohoo5419how? I’m not fans of them, I just like Alex. How are they fraudsters and who is making fun of them?

[@TrueNimrod]

​@@boohoo5419 They are fraudsters because they discuss finance? Not everyone who suggests getting into a real estate career is a fraudster... please provide evidence. No, I will google "Is Graham Stephen a fraud" and I will be back with results.

[@afloorup2229]

Makes u think about what else he might be lost about 😂😭💀

[@lighting7508]

@@jswew12 yeah same lol I go to this podcast solely to see the guests

[@guilhermedomingues6360]

Pleasant surprise to see alex here . Good conversation

[@DSTmune]

I love one of the first things they asked him was "what was the most difficult point the most formidable debate opponent made to you and what was your response" and expected to understand it lmao

[@bernardobila4336]

Been watching Alex since he had a weird cupboard in his room.

[@YusaSSBM]

the shelves!

[@WickedIndigo]

Classic😂 it’s fun to go back and watch those just to see the difference between him then and him now, he’s made so much of a progression. And I’m here for it

[@psmorgan2542]

Same, I got onto him when he was debating Dawah bros, adjacent to the secular Muslim and ex-Muslim discourses

[@hitm43]

They were drawers!

[@Sui_Generis0]

Same!

[@pungentzeus]

bro by far the best guest you've had on - i love alex

[@boohoo5419]

how the fu** did you know who alex is and listen to these two FRAUDS at the same time? just curious..

[@CMA418]

I do too. But I question his seeming walking-back on the utility of logical thinking and rational argument as 1) it's sometimes the only option to respond to religious extremism, 2) those were crucial for me personally in escaping my own religious indoctrination, 3) that's the milieu that led him to the success he has had and 4) I believe it has helped many people by leading to progress in philosophy, technology, medicine, etc.

[@fvis]

@@CMA418I don’t see it as him walking back, but more as him finding new ways to further his understanding and focussing less on convincing others of what he already believes. But there are also other, less direct and less confrontational ways of convincing people. After so many years it can become boring, tedious and pointless to keep trying the same methods. Let him cook.

[@CMA418]

@@fvis I hope so.

[@xman4161]

2nd best 😉

[@TheMooseManKing]

42:04 Man, Graham REALLY struggling to understand that this is a hypothetical situation being described.

[@Joe_mammma]

Yeah. And the section just before where he's basically like "well how can it be mistreated if it's conscious? It's only a computer". He's just not understanding what's being discussed

[@MBicknell]

Came here for this

[@oliconran2258]

He just seemed terrified about being led to a conclusion. Like he was resisting being 'tricked'.

[@3ormore887]

I think some of this went over Graham's head with his line of questioning.

[@Solidude4]

@@3ormore887 I think it's moreso they just had a list of questions to get through and didn't actually care about the conversation

[@beng7093]

@@Solidude4because they don’t actually listen. Because they’re not actually very smart. The way they squirmed when Alex suggested there is no meritocracy nearly melted them.

[@otoshamanadze4769]

@@beng7093 can you write on what time they talked about meritocracy? I think I missed it :D

[@andrewbai7080]

90% seems to have gone over their heads unfortunately

[@mylesricker3095]

Without a doubt

[@mach7479]

I’m a little concerned about General Grievous behind Alex.

[@digimaster07]

I love this guy. Philosophy is great.

[@CMA418]

As it literally means "love of wisdom", to hear someone say they are kind of abandoning the love of wisdom...😭

[@4AMWVh]

I think Alex is my favorite human. I religiously watch his content and try everyday to think more like him. Even though he's younger than me, I can proudly say that this man is my role model!

[@joshuaduncan8834]

Indeed. He has always been such a thoroughly lucid and eloquent communicator, and becomes ever moreso with each new, like, iterative pass through the same pathways of reasoning. I love having grown familiar with his most well-considered thought processes and arguments as they become increasingly refined and polished. I find myself more aligned with his intuitions all the time, to an extent now that I can pretty reliably anticipate where his mind will go upon being asked any given question, and yet he is always pressing on into new novel territorio and frontiers of exploration. I'm really enjoying his current expansiveness, easing off of the tenacity of meticulous analysis, growing bored of syllogisms and identifying fallacies, in favor of a broader receptivity to abstraction. He is someone whose judgements I feel confident using as reliable beacons and whom I've always felt is quite unlikely to deviate from propositions and worldviews of which we who wish to seek thoughtfully whatever truth can be hoped to be found accessible to our ravenously curious little human brains may always be proud to find we are in general agreement. What a champ.

[@PeopleAreBeautifulbyChris]

Couldn’t agree with this more. Religious people for ALEX!!!

[@createcontent4me-dx8ly]

@@joshuaduncan8834 WORD SALAD IS MY FAVOURITE FOOD!

[@joshuaduncan8834]

@@createcontent4me-dx8ly yum yum, eat 'em up. Lmao -- I know that I have a tendency to be obnoxiously, unnecessarily verbose, but I think you'll find that the substantive content of my words is coherent, if you have the patience for it. Or maybe not. Your mileage may vary. I totally understand if you don't have the patience. Shoooooot, sometimes upon re-reading my own nonsense, I haven't the patience either. I get that. I roll my eyes hard at my own writing style, but it is all meant sincerely, and with the intention of conveying meaning with clarity and precision when I write it. The "word salad" accusation, in mind, is better aimed at those using big words to deflect or obfuscate.... I'm not over here tryna pull some Petersonion "Well, that depends upon what you mean by 'word'... Depends upon what one means by 'salad'" typa bullshit lmao.... Like "Are we talking Caesar? Cobb? Caprese? What sort of dressing shall we pour upon our lexicogriphal (metaphorically vegetational) substrate? Thousand Island? Croutons... or nah?" Lmao.... Anyway. Fair point. Peace.

[@createcontent4me-dx8ly]

@@joshuaduncan8834 holy moly my broly canoli... you are a deadly weapon with that high tech verbage!!

[@ABC-cy6ve]

Alex’s laugh at 43:09 cracks me up, it says, “Have you seen my content?”

[@aaaaa-dt4ni]

Graham has a clear arrogance surrounding intelligence and success. He feeds questions which are just his beliefs with question marks at the end- "It must have been so hard being 13 and a genius theology kid talking to people twice your age" "do you think you were BORN a deep thinker?" "surely we shouldnt allow dumb people to vote" "surely we shouldnt allow poor people to vote" His disdain for what he views as the common unenlightened genetic stock has frankly never been on clearer display and seeing Alex gracious but firmly shoot down each of these "well i wasnt an expert at 13, well i dont know whats genetic and whats not" and outright calling the tax and text prereqs for voting gross were well deserved pushbacks.

[@hoolio5659]

This was my exact feeling too! He has this immediate idolization of Alex which is really weird. Moreover in his political system he probably wouldn’t have been allowed to vote, he clearly hasn’t thought about his presuppositions enough.

[@mrman5066]

It was more heartwarming than I expected hearing Alex mention Trent Horn & mention him as a friend, their 2 channels are some of my favorites :)

[@graysenm1320]

Alex is amazing. Thanks for having him on.

[@TheIcedCoffeeHour]

He's a legend!

[@beng7093]

@@TheIcedCoffeeHourit’s a shame you guys didn’t actually listen and engage with any of the ideas he presented.

[@AlecSorensen]

I love Alex, but honestly my favorite part of the podcast was just the add read talking about how the Range Rover "minimized unwanted body movements." That's a phrase I didn't know I desperately needed in my life. Thank you.

[@colindavidson6483]

Didn’t even know who this was. He’s like incredibly smart, wow

[@wasdwasdedsf]

lol

[@authenticallysuperficial9874]

You'd be much better advised to watch his podcast rather than this one.

[@Vekigu]

Don’t want to be rude, but I thought the hosts were poor on this episode - couldn’t follow what Alex was saying during the materialism and AI conversation

[@minimal3734]

They were clearly intellectually challenged.

[@zahubshahid7944]

Can you blame them? These are difficult topics to follow, especially for laymens.

[@richardbibaud2326]

I agree. It seems they didn’t prepare well.

[@Victor.-.E]

They don't have to understand any of it. They're letting Alex explain it to the audience. It's a good thing that they're asking such basic questions, this isn't a philosophy podcast with a philosophically minded audience. I get what you're saying tho, these two are definitely in over their heads

[@CharlyCD93]

@@minimal3734they know about money but that’s about it for expertise. Not a bad thing to be knowledgeable in order to have a comfortable life.

[@Aphanvahrius]

I don't quite understand why the point about imagining a triangle is significant. Like, if you draw a triangle in MS Paint and then switch off your monitor, where is THAT triangle? You can cut open an SSD the image is stored on, or the RAM the program is running on, and you will not find a triangle there either. It's made from a composition of electric signal that the software turns into an image of a triangle. So the triangle in your mind can just as well be an arrangement of electric signals in your brain that it's been taught is a triangle.

[@fredrikfjeld1575]

I thought the same thing! By the same logic you can say that anything that is on a computer is already immaterial, which would mean that it has the properties he describes. Of course, he is representing just an argument that can be used and not saying he believes it fully himself, but I found the argument flawed.

[@MatthewHoffmann-x7q]

Exactly what I was thinking! Tho put more eloquently than I was thinking haha

[@kaze8447]

But the triangle doesn't exist in the computer. It exists on the monitor. All the computer has is instructions for the monitor on how to draw or the triangle, and you would be able to find those instructions in the memory of the computer. You could kind of think of it as the computer being the brain and your imagination or consciousness being the monitor. The brain has the information on what a triangle is and how to "draw" it onto your imagination. The triangle stops existing when you turn off the monitor, but the information on what a triangle is doesn't. Similarly, the triangle stops existing in your consciousness, when you stop imagining a triangle, but the information on what a triangle is continues to exist in your brain. So the big question is what and where is this monitor for our brain. This is how I understand the metaphor anyway!

[@Aphanvahrius]

@@kaze8447 Idk, maybe it's different for others, but for me when I imagine a triangle, it's like with a monitor that is switched off. I know the information about the triangle, and just like a computer I can turn it into a reality if I take a pencil and draw it (turn on the monitor), but unless I do that, the triangle I'm imagining lives in my mind as a concept, a set of instructions on what it is and how to make it, not an actual image. Just like a triangle with a turned off monitor lives on a computer. And now that I think about it, specifically in regard to a memory of an image, it's quite a peculiar thing. They're clearly not images in the way what I see with my eyes is. But they're not text, sound or math either. They're this weird state that has no equivalent outside of the mind. But one thing that clearly contains images and exists within the imagination is a dream. When I dream I do see, in the same kind of way as when awake. So what is the monitor for that is an open question.

[@thebrahmnicboy]

​You probably have Aphantasia. ​@@Aphanvahrius Now that I read your username, maybe you already knew it?

[@aviberezovskiy7633]

What does the “woke agenda” have anything to do with the discussion?

[@mrmrshel2523]

Current AI is trained not self-taught. It's programmed with boundaries which many question is pushing a narrative. People are a permeable membrane; we are a product of our environment; so people can be manipulated pretty easily from false data or narrative. "woke agenda" is a strange way/marketing to buzz phrase that question.

[@abstract5249]

When do they talk about the woke agenda?

[@Solidude4]

Right? total clickbait

[@Solidude4]

​@@abstract5249The point is that it's in the title but doesn't seem to relate to anything in the actual conversation. They never talk about it.

[@asmodeus5326]

I'm going to say the woke agenda was the "hawk tuah" part if I was to guess

[@yurona5155]

Hot take: Consciousness is second-order perception, i.e. a conscious system perceiving its own first-order perception of itself and its environment. By the standards of any other verbalized concept, this is about as coherent and comprehensive a definition as human language allows for.

[@indi_prime]

Not a hot take, its Descartes's take if I'm understanding your words correctly. "I think, therefore, I am". I don't think this accurately describes consciousness however simply because human words fail to capture it, the attempt to do so expands it beyond capture.

[@TheMWozz]

You can be conscious without being aware of the fact that you're perceiving things. What you're describing is meta-consciousness. Consciousness is simply the act of perceiving. My cat is conscious without being meta-conscious. My cat is not having higher-order thoughts about its thoughts like I am. But I would never say it's not conscious. I can also have conscious experiences without necessarily having a second-order perception of them. If a ball flies at my face, I will reflexively dodge it without thinking about it at all. I was still conscious during that experience, though, even if I wasn't having a second-order perception at the time. In fact, at every moment of your life, you are doing some things consciously without being actively aware that you're conscious of them. It's only when you choose to activate your meta-conscious self-reflection that you can have "thoughts about your thoughts".

[@joeyscouch]

I agree with you here . I disagree with Alex’s take on this. Consciousness seems like it would just be sophisticated software that is self aware of the machine running the software, and likely all thoughts are some sort of biological solid state memory or ram that could be measured. So it is not physical like our body , but rather the data being stored on our nervous system. Maybe it’s not binary but it could just be some form of computation of our sense inputs mixing with our biology . Would have been cool to hear his thoughts on that argument .

[@JAWesquire373]

A second order perception will only lead to an infinite regress and whom is doing the perceiving in each of these systems? Who is the subject? There is qualitative difference between how minds operate and how sense perception operates. The mind has unity of apprehension and is always an intentional act, which can never be reducible to parts. A fun question to think about in order to sever sense perception from consciousness is to ask whether a blind person is less conscious? They clearly are just as conscious because it’s not about the amount of sensation. Consciousness is the first person unity of apprehension which you see and interpret the world.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

You’re kind of including the word you’re trying to define in your definition-“a conscious system”, which makes it a circular definition. Including the word “perception” may also be circular depending on how you’re defining it as well.

[@mitchelllion6052]

As a fan of alex but don’t know much about this podcast I really liked how the hosts just let him go off at times. They were also visibly in awe at him talking quite a few times. Which I fully relate lol I also love how he brings up Trent as a formidable opponent when it comes to debate. Trent’s prob my fav theist

[@teegee126]

After listening to this I'm very confident that Graham would have argued for slavery back in the day

[@andrewritts184]

Are you assuming that you would not. Remember over 400 years ago practically no one thought slavery was wrong.

[@heinthantaung8251]

That was amazing. I really enjoyed it. I like how you guys just let him talk and don't interrupt at all.

[@kevinod771]

“Catch a guy that steals from you?” My Uncle owned several night clubs in the Boston area and on the Cape. He told me that in that business, he would hire the people that would steal the least from him! He was a realist and back in the day it was more cash than charge/ debit cards. Losing cash was an inevitable part of the business ! It sucks but better to be realistic than disappointed!!

[@bobninda]

This was SUCH an interesting discussion. Thank you!!

[@ColombianLNP]

Has no idea who this is/was glad to have listened to him. Great podcast cheer's from your biggest fan in Colombia amigos!

[@russelllopez6255]

Alex is just brilliant. My goodness. I am blown away for how articulate, intelligent, and sharp he is, especially at his age.

[@FreethinkingSecularist]

Hearing Alex reference, "snitches get stitches" was the highlight of my day. Hahaha My favorite new philosopher.

[@jwood6902]

the hosts of this show are regarded.

[@Hunter_pizza]

Highly, some may say

[@romannewhearth9907]

Every time they have a good guest on, my impression of business bros gets lower and lower.

[@MBicknell]

Highly regarded?

[@AccountabilityAssassin]

@@MBicknellHe misspelled RETARDED on purpose. Keep yp

[@olivierr4232]

I feel so smart after watching this. They chose torturing a conscious being on a cloud over a fucking plant.

[@dillanv.9535]

@Alex O'Connor Genuine question: How do you not get bored or frustrated repeating a relitivly similar explanation over and over for so many different subjects, especially regarding emotivist ethics. Does it ever feel stagnating to talk to people who are not well versed in your area of interest? It must be stimulating enough to get new perspectives. Do you think that's because you spend so much time talking to some of the most well versed thinkers alive in the Western world? Would you like to spend more time with people experiencing the world more detached from the game of academics? Do you feel that would increase your understanding of those most pressing questions in your heart. How do you balance this dichotomy? Is it really a dichotomy?

[@dillanv.9535]

Also, for anyone interested in a less personal question. How do you balance consuming stimulating media content vs. experiencing the world directly?

[@kateknowles8055]

@@dillanv.9535 I make sure to move about, keep hydrated, eat sensibly turn screens off an hour before bedtime. I keep lots of bookmarks and I am patient about waiting for time to visit favourites again. I watch fractions of podcasts. What other hints about living first-hand as well as being interested in best podcasts are people sharing?

[@RealtorFallon]

I'm sorry, but is nobody else bothered by the fact he casually used "balls deep" as a unit of measurement??

[@CaptPicard81]

Not bothered…intrigued perhaps, titillated even, but definitely not bothered

[@Baset_]

The fact Graham didn't even react is the funniest bit lol

[@tozrimondher4250]

Alex didn’t find a smart rival he started debating with linear algebra 😂

[@aviberezovskiy7633]

Alex I think you dismiss premise-conclusion based arguments too easily. In fact your videos about free will and nonexsitence of objective morality where you logically outlined the arguments had a big effect on me!

[@moussaadem7933]

He used to be like you I guess

[@jcavs9847]

that's just the natural evolution of intelligent people. You might "get it" some day, or not

[@kevinod771]

Alex is the man!! Great conversation!! Thanks guys!!

[@tylergran1]

whoah never thought Trent Horn one of my favs would be mentioned on this podcast! Trent is a fantastic debater and almost always holds a calm demeanor.

[@Lalo-everything]

Would love to see Scotty Kilmer on the podcast!

[@mindyvaughan9638]

The car guy? That would be funny

[@thugblaster303]

He would never.

[@firefly9838]

Lmao ok put that under things that'll never happen

[@leetjohnson]

Revvvv up your engines!!!

[@jwood6902]

Fuck that! I want to see Alex Oconnor VS Scotty Kilmore.

[@WishfulCreation]

I need to see Alex do a kickflip now

[@malgrosskreuz01]

We should start a petition

[@rhettlee]

If this doesn’t happen within a year, the petition HAS to happen.

[@scottm85]

Sub to his skateboarding channel then.

[@Funymoney010]

That’s too bad this episodes views aren’t very high, Alex is such an amazing person and this was such a good episode!

[@Williamwilliam1531]

“Do you think we should test people before they vote?” “Absolutely not. Who would administer the test? “What about a minimum tax limit before you can vote? Why should people who are tax burdens be allowed to vote?” “Some citizens have difficult circumstances. That proposal seems grotesque to me.” “Technically speaking, how can an atheist have values, purpose, or meaning?” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@SolarisBali]

Balls deep in knowledge 😂

[@Ezio9791]

Ikr, that caught me off guard coming from Alex 😂

[@kevinod771]

Whenever a “believer “ asks an atheist; “Where do you get meaning and purpose in life without God?” I always retort; “what meaning and purpose does god give you??” And 9 times out of ten they will just stare at you like a deer in your headlights! The answer is simple; it’s up to you to make your life meaningful and give it purpose!! You do that by contributing to society as whole, to your family, and most importantly to your children!! The problem with a lot of “believers “is they ignore this life in the hope for a better afterlife!! That’s no way to live!! NOBODY KNOWS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE…NOBODY!! Religions speculate at best!! Anyone telling you anything different is either a fool or a liar!!

[@100lander]

Wow this is a colab a never saw comming, my favorite creators together🎉

[@IFKY]

This is a fantastic interview-Alex continues to get even better at explaining these concepts

[@PodMentsTT]

Love the fact that they found common ground on hating the mosquitos

[@TheDiamond872]

I've enjoyed watching Alex debate theist over the years. So far I think he usually makes the more rational argument.

[@feelsrestricted8322]

Ok I’ve changed my mind, the mustache is actually quite sexy 😂

[@jasonreed1352]

I'm unsure if it's possible for him to mess that adorable face up.

[@shreyaathalye2069]

It’s grown on me (no pun intended…?)

[@dogsandyoga1743]

His final form will be full guru beard 🧔

[@Baset_]

Always was!!

[@teegee126]

Idk why they're getting so offended at Alex saying slot machines are a bit weird. I feel the same way. They're super exploitative by scientifically manipulating human emotions to profit off them with lights and sounds. It's just so direct.

[@CharlyCD93]

33:00 If you have an AI program on your desktop draw a triangle you can see in on the monitor, it’s sort of there. If you unplug the monitor, it’s still there. Where is the triangle? If you cut open the computer would you find the triangle?

[@CharlyCD93]

1:54:37 So they gave themselves a raise? What about this? What if the company gave their employees an earnings report? The report would say, your labor ,after expenses, produced $100 and your share is $50. This makes the employee mad and then he steals, not the other $50 but say $30. The point being, who is stealing from who? Is the company stealing $50 from the employee or is the employee stealing $30 from the company? How does the company come to the conclusion that they get to get to keep 50% of the employees production.

[@jonna8661]

Great guest and conversation.

[@coralsosaa]

I’m just here for the people they invite and this Alex guy is amazing 😊

[@daveyofyeshua]

33:15 The relationship between the brain and the mind I believe is like that of a TV set an the signal. The brain illustrates picture and sound but the information doesn't come from within the TV. Damage the brain and you damage the brains ability to display correctly the picture/sound, but the signal isn't corrupt.

[@tomma1431]

About the "when you picture a triangle in your mind, where is it?", you can do sorta the same question to a different setup. Imagine you have a triangle drawn on paper. Where is this triangle? Well, its here, on paper. But is it though? You have just a representation of a triangle on paper, 3 connected lines that you interpret as triangle. Now lets imagine we have taken a picture of said triangle and taken i through an algorithm of some sort that deterministically shuffles pixels around and can do so in reverse too. Given output of this algorithm, a whole bunch of noise to you, would you say there is a triangle? No, to you its just a noise. Yet there is triangle, its just now in the interaction of said algorithm and processed image. Two separate entities, if viewed together, can contain more information than any of them on their own. So when you imagine a tringle, the triangle exists somewhere in interactions of different parts of your brain. I think consciousness is the same in that regard, its not a singular entity, its a result of interaction of giant numbers of human cells

[@robertgrey8648]

Loved this fantastic conversation so very much; will watch it again. You guys rock!!!

[@CrystalMannequins]

Love Alex and you guys are some of the best hosts on the internet. Very open and genuine every time

[@joelcon4982]

Alex not knowing whether to pull the lever in the trolley problem is like Chidi in The Good Place lol.

[@MRKDjarod]

Lord these comments are very telling of the current level of education in this the US.

[@Olivetree80]

I swear, people want someone to spoon feed them information

[@michael88366]

Yep, Americans do not realize how uniquely ignorant they are.

[@jaughnekow]

then teach them

[@Theactivepsychos]

You wanna watch Andrew Gold podcast to rebalance your perspective. That guy is as thick as mince.

[@jackweaver1846]

@@MRKDjarod “in this the US” Jesus buddy, if you’re gonna call other people uneducated, at least make sure you don’t have typos before posting your comment.

[@fiatnomo2874]

Absolutely great convo guys! 👏

[@bencarter3920]

1:28:50 I like his answer here- why can't meaning be synonymous with purpose? And does purpose have to have an end goal? As an atheist I like to refer to Hitchhikers Guide, not just because it's hilarious but also because it accurately portrays atheism in a non-nihilistic way. If the answer is 42, maybe you're not asking the right question? In which case, maybe the meaning (or purpose) of life is to find the right questions to ask? I like to think those books show that curiosity and humour are just as meaningful as having a worldview like religion.

[@StephenMoreira]

Great ep, I feel like this was way more outside the iced coffee comfort zone. I like it.

[@whirlwhind666]

34:10 Challenge to the materialist accepted. I get the temptation to say, "Well, that mental triangle doesn’t exist physically, so materialism must be false." But the experience of picturing the triangle is rooted in physical processes in your brain (there’s a cascade of physical events every time you conjure that image - neurons fire, chemical signals flow). Materialism argues that everything about consciousness arises from these physical processes, not that every thought or image itself is a chunk of matter floating around in your head. Alex, think of it like software on a computer: you don’t open up a computer and find actual folders and icons in there, they’re representations made possible by circuits, chips, and programming. Your brain’s 'software' - (those immaterial images, concepts, thoughts) emerges from a system that’s entirely material. If you’re asking if materialism is true, it doesn’t necessarily require that every element of mind be material, only that every element originates in physical processes. So, in that sense, yes, materialism holds in my opinion.

[@DrManHattan3n20]

Alex O'Conner is one of the new age Horsemen of Athiesm

[@360.Tapestry]

i have a sneaking suspicion that he will turn theist in his late 30s or early 40s

[@codykeen6606]

I was just thinking this. Don't know who else I would put beside him tho

[@nuanceatnoon]

Don’t know if he’s “atheist enough” for the atheist community. I think he is the best representative of a sceptic who can respect the other side though.

[@Gallowglass7]

@@nuanceatnoon Indeed

[@x3Nf0x]

Wow from all of Alex's appearnces I've seen from his time in the states, this is the best by far. I really enjoyed your guys's show! much love from UK x

[@YusaSSBM]

32:58 the Triangle example doesn't really work. Of course there is no literal triangular object that you would find if you were to cut open someone's brain. But when you see a triangle in real life, that triangle isn't inside your brain either; it is encoded as some kind of neurone activity. Now when you use memory, you would find a similar pattern of neurones lighting up in the brain on an fMRI.

[@SlightSmile]

"Of course there is no literal triangular object that you would find if you were to cut open someone's brain" That's the point. We see that triangle even though it doesn't exist (i don't mean that in the sense of "this combination of neuron interactions means that this person is imagining a triangle", i mean that in the literal object-ive sense, it doesn't exist.)

[@YusaSSBM]

@@SlightSmile "We see that triangle even though it doesn't exist". This seems to be a misunderstanding of memory. When you imagine a triangle, your hippocampus is able to stimulate similar brain activity to when you saw a triangle in real life. No one is claiming that you are re-creating a physical triangle somewhere, which is why the question 'where is the triangle' is illogical to ask.

[@kamkamkam_]

I feel that he's aware of this, and a lot of what he talks about feels very surface-level philosophy, which I believe is fitting for the podcast he's in where he isn't talking to fellow enthusiasts. It's an example to get you to dip your toes into the mind-body/materialism arguments (like Mary's room and so on)

[@APaleDot]

​@@YusaSSBM But the neurons in your brain don't have three sides. They don't have internal angles that add up to 180°. The properties of the neurons and the properties of the triangle are totally different.

[@aaronz1326]

I understand that they're probably nervous, but they're not engaging him in conversation. It feels like they're just reading questions off a list. One host was so eager to get to his next question he even cut off Alex's joke about whether he was adopted.

[@minimal3734]

They can't follow intellectually.

[@viewsandrates]

Yeah. I noticed that. Was kinda shitt.

[@sunray1803]

Super interesting, thank YOU guys🥰

[@CharlyCD93]

1:31:00 The meaning is the experience. The meaning is the now while you are here.

[@CharlyCD93]

1:55:50 If they are bringing in a million dollars how much are they getting in the form of wages? If they are stealing 10k I can’t imagine they would be making more than 100k. So from what they produced they only get to keep 10%? Is the employee stealing 10k(1%) or is the company stealing 90%?

[@daveyofyeshua]

1:29:20 Low level thinking. Hunger and Comfort. What about kindness, compassion, giving love to others. Alex has missed a step between purpose and doing/deeds. The step in the middle is believing/faith in X which drives the doing. But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. More low level ME thinking 1:30:00 OR playing the game, with the money received already but the game is demonstrating to others how they can also get the money.

Around 34:00. It is now possible to use an MRI to "see" images in a person's brain. The argument of materialism isn't that the mind is a physical thing, it's that it isn't supernatural.

[@adamv6753]

We can actually detect brain waves and interpret that. Basically a form of telepathy

[@harrytowers1076]

Yes it’s just a case of decoding the electrical signals into something coherent that can be projected onto a display and “re-experienced” through our eyes. The problem still exists of how is the illusion of “seeing” the image come about the first time around

[@woetoe2535]

Still doesn't account for the qualia

[@SlightSmile]

That doesn't matter. If Alex's argument is what you mean, then he would think that a decoded message doesn't materially exist in an encrypted code, in the same way that a triangle doesnt exist in a jumbled mess of neurons. However, Alex means that the perception of that triangle (the fact that you see that image, and the image that you see) is immaterial, because that image does not physically exist. Like a computer that doesnt interpret information and display it, but rather perceives it like humans do and draws the perception onto the screen. In the same manner, that perception of a triangle exists immaterially in our mind, because you can not find literally that triangle in its perceived form within our brain while we imagine it.

@@SlightSmile I can see that point, but from that point of view, computers share that characteristic with humans. You can't cut open an SSD and see what's on there.

[@AlkisGD]

Consciousness to me is like a program running on the brain. You can't cut open the brain and find it any more than you cut open your phone and find the youtube app. The triangle in your thoughts is similar, it's like a jpg file in your phone's RAM--there now, gone later. What are these things? They're information stored in physical media. Of course I don't know how the brain does it, but I'm guesstimating neurons and synapses and various chemicals are involved.

[@bryant7046]

Alex is awesome His ideas are beautiful.

[@CarrotGodz]

So today we have learnt that Graham doesn’t understand hypotheticals lol

[@robindeknijff5769]

Hearing Alex is in Vegas around the same time I was in Vegas almost all of November to visit family is making upset I missed him now when I’m back in Sweden

[@MerrandeR]

Thanks for bringing in Alex!

[@ErinMagner82]

Legally, the concept of rights or human rights within a system begins with owning property, whether it by renting and leasing or just by having a place of residence. We have a Bill of Rights that applies to people in general when in the public, but your right to be anywhere in particular and to do anything in particular is always framed by the time and place you are in relative to your place of residence. Voting isn't as much a matter of consent but to ensure in the public trust that there are consequences for abuses of power, and abuses of power can be confirmed or denied in relationship to the Bill of Rights.

[@Lukas-lr1nd]

The point being made at 34:50 is a bit silly I think because you can’t cut open a computer and see letters jumping around. It’s just information stored and transmitted by electricity. A materialistic brain could easily be similar where the triangle Alex is describing is a thing to look at but a piece of information stored through electrons is the brain that we know exist.

[@Lukas-lr1nd]

Is not*

[@schmetterling4477]

The tool to analyze what is happening inside a computer is called a debugger and it can "see that letters jumping around". We have relatively crude "brain debuggers" already and we will have much better ones in the near future.

[@ScalarStorm]

Trent's argument has a nice corollary in the biblical text as the Being claiming first-level Creative rights also identifies as Unchanging Truth. How Unchanging Truth initiates creativity at all is a paradox that would need explanation.

[@sup9023]

My goat is here.

[@Stevenedcastle]

Most Erie openings you guys have had

[@TAG_Finance]

Just finished the entire thing, very trippy episode

[@maciees]

I love that alex just said "balls deep in analytic philosophy." Hahaha the juxtaposition of these words has me cackling

[@mirati4418]

Talk Tauh was not the opening I expected from this podcast 😂

[@AccountabilityAssassin]

He had a weak take on the matter. Zero discussion about how only an attractive girl can become famous for absolutely nothing besides a pun about fellatio. A true indicator of a failing society

[@tmstani23]

This is an incredibly interesting talk. A gratitude practice is like the reverse of the threat of something bad happening. It's good to do and helpful but not anywhere near as powerful as the relief that comes from being freed from something bad or gaining something really good. Maybe that is genuine appreciation.

[@jessemaron1767]

Love Alex so much.. My favorite intellictusl

[@MeAndersen]

Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Wisdom is applied knowledge i guess.

[@guillermosanchez1224]

in my opinion consciousness is something self sufficient like it can energize it self, talk to someone by itself, think and move by itself.

[@PersistentDissenter]

I can mention the brush strokes, color choice and skill that the artist out into the painting. I can discuss why he may have chosen those colors and why he chose the person. I'm not sure if the subjective interpratation of what her eyes are doing makes it a "deeper thought". It seems like a thought stopper. I dont think buying into our faulty perceptions is healthy or good. The scientific method is designed to remove them as much as possible and has led to greater understanding in every single way. From art to technology. How does green mix with red when their constiuent parts change their relative density and can create visually stimulating results that speak to our pattern seeking and joy of consistent repitition (music).

[@AM2K2]

Alex is great - thanks for the podcast!

[@nathansamson5478]

Incredible guest!

[@SnappyWasHere]

The hypothetical ethical questions at the end given without context is no different than a preacher teaching something based on a verse out of context. Context is everything. Our lives are context and determine the correct answer.

[@kevdog20]

Graham this transition 😂 14:14

[@choreomaniacle]

🤣

[@Harbz]

Alex is awesome, love the way he thinks

[@TheAnnoyingRyan]

too many ads but great that you let your guests speak freely and without cutting them off

[@BiggieChungulus]

Trent Horn debated Destiny on abortion and honestly yeah dude is good faith

[@roundtabledetails3307]

Trent Horn?? absolutely not.

[@KattaBingo]

​@@roundtabledetails3307Why?

[@roundtabledetails3307]

@@KattaBingo if you listen to that abortion debate, Trent never answer directly to Destiny's questions.

[@KattaBingo]

@@roundtabledetails3307 Can you point to a question he never answered? Because I'm pretty sure destiny called him good faith even

[@daveyofyeshua]

1:57:00 Matthew 20: 1-16

[@fronk850]

At around 35:00, I think this is a possibility: That a "material" is a set of virtual "particles" with several properties in how they relate to other properties. Their location in space/time is just another one of those properties. Some particles may simply not have the property of spatiality or temporality, but would still interact with aspects of the brain as well as with wider reality. I'm essentially saying "concepts" are materialistic--or that materials are virtual/conceptual. The question still remains, how could something nonspatial affect something local and yet abide by a limited speed of information? And a similar question arises: how could something atemporal affect temporally constrained materials? This is simply answered by acknowledging the locality of particle interactions and applying it to these non-spatial/temporal materials.

[@Sandra_D.9]

I love this kid.. the one on the left of the screen ❤

[@Sandra_D.9]

Triangles just like squares and circles are wherever they were first time you looked, or the triangle singularly is actually located somewhere else and that’s in Bournemouth, Dorset