A Pastor Trains Christians to Misunderstand Why "The Lost" Won't Come to Church

[@louisaw8600]

I quit church when I realized I was only going because I felt guilty when I didn't. I quit religion when I realized insidious and manipulative that was. best decision I ever made.

[@chadmccoy8032]

What disturbs me is that the people who told me there was a literal garden of Eden had 6-8 years of college. Ponder that. I don’t feel guilty anymore.

[@AdLockhorst-bf8pz]

Try this one; kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqCzdGCXl9Nmacksi=2EQ7vq_pUcwOix9X yeah, it's in Dutch but hey, Dutch is very easy to understand. This is Harry Jekkers talking about how he stopped going to church (a week after his older brother stopped going to church) ... and his fathers' reaction was "GREAT, now I no longer have to go either!'

[@TovenDo.O.Video-]

I'm an ex catholic and I quit because it was boring as hell. Going trough the mass felt like torture. Quitting belief was a whole'nother story.

[@Jack_Woods]

​@@TovenDo.O.Video-Same, I remember even as a kid being like "If going to church is the right thing why does god makes me feel so dead inside just hearing about having to do it?"

[@allenhonaker4107]

Losing people means losing money and political power. Can't let that happen. Can He?

[@ProphetofZod]

And psychologically he can't confront the real reasons people are leaving.

[@stevewebber707]

@@ProphetofZod Or maybe honestly addressing serious questions about faith might seed more people asking more hard questions. Even talking about the real problems might make those problems worse. At least the way he does things. You'd think a crisis of faith would lead to a closer examination, and that would bring people closer to God, if the answers were clear and true.

[@scooby3133]

not to mention influence. it feeds the ego. Kevin must think he's extra special if people show up, listen to what he says, and conforms accordingly.

[@charlesyates8228]

I’m wondering with his talk of suppers if he isn’t prepping them to use his catering service? Or the sale of the facility and future meetings at Bob Evans Restaurant

[@nenmaster5218]

So many cover Faith-Healers or even waaaay-crazier Stuff: Creaky Blinder, Telltale, Sir Sic, GMS, Rhino, Emma Thorne.

[@thetexasliberal283]

I always love videos of Christians explaining why so many people are not Christians

[@MrCanis4]

More than 70% of the world's population. And then still, it has to be the right way off christianity.

[@HEARTS-OF-SPACE]

@@MrCanis4 A lot of American evangelicals seem to think the US is the only country in the world, so they naturally believe there are more Christians than there actually are. That mentality also bleeds into politics, so that's why they think they should run the world (Christian nationalists and dominionists). What a sad bunch of terribly mistaken fools.

[@jarrod752]

More common than not. Ever seen a married _dating coach?_

[@HEARTS-OF-SPACE]

@@js8270 Yes!

[@GredelsRage]

I quit church at 12 after being told that the reason for my depression was because I didn't have enough faith. And then they decided to exercise my depression demons out of me by surrounding me and praying screaming howling talking about my sinfulness, again 12, and touching me holding me in place so I couldn't leave. I pissed myself, I cried because I felt hostage, and I lied and agreed just to be let go...then I promptly began disappearing an hour before church and coming back later that evening. Got hit alot for it but that was it for church. For God himself, time handled that. Some people love church, some people over Chocolate...I don't like either. I'll help anyone in need but an hour or more a week being told how I'm not good enough isn't all that appealing to me. Thanks again Prophet of Zod. I like how you speak in terms of logic and understanding rather than just insults and point and laugh tactics.

[@weirdwilliam8500]

Yikes! What country was this in? Sorry you had to go through that.

[@GredelsRage]

@@weirdwilliam8500 this was on the US. Middle Georgia. Kinda was worse because I was raised catholic and my parents converted to crazy-ism ( Church of God, its Pentacostal denominational church) they force baptized me too, I thought I would drown, as I already had a fear (still do) of water being forcefully shoved under water only helped seal that one in. and they baptized at the river, the source of my initial fear since I was in a boat that capsized and nearly drowned as a younger child.

[@radishpineapple74]

Sorry for your traumatic experiences.

[@derreckwalls7508]

Wow. I feel for you. Up until I was 8yrs old I went to my Dad's evangelical Baptist church and several time they tried to exercise the demons of my moderate autism. It was nightmarish! Yes, the chanting, whispering, shouting, laying on of hands, violently gestures by the preacher - all that crap. I would wake up screaming because demons were trying to possess me in my dreams. Nothing but hate for the unrighteous, distrust of every institution, fearmongering and condemnation ever came from the preacher. The loud music with drums, clapping, wailing, shout of "hallelujah" and "praise Jesus" really aggravated my autism. When my parents got divorced my Mom took me to my grandmother's Presbyterian church. It was a whole different world. They understood my autism, sang beautiful hymn to an organ, preached intelligent sermons, had no conflict with science, etc. My youth group did volunteer work and the church supported a food bank and free clinic. The only indication that they were religiously affected was a small plaque on the wall required by law. They were truly good people. But they did have some pretty ridiculous Calvinist doctrine that first made me doubt my faith at about 14yrs old. I studied the Bible and Comparative Religion in college, and knowing the scholarship made me realize all religions were the same - testimonies to superstitions. So having seen both sides of Christianity I think the problem is the fundamentalist, evangelical, science denying "self-righteous" type of Christianity. Even the Presbyterians thought they were a bunch of crazies, and considering how many people on social media criticize their idiocy and intolerance it's obvious that fundamentalist are doing more harm than good to their religion. We should thank them!

[@Phoenix0F8]

I'm so sorry you had to go through that. The physical restraint and screaming exorcism session sounds very much like how my family tried to handle my first bipolar episode, as well. Not remotely helpful. In my opinion it did more harm than the actual mental illness itself, because it irreparably harmed my trust in the people closest to me to have them treat me like that. And to come back from the psych ward later and find that they had burned nearly half of my possessions because they were convinced that perfectly ordinary household objects were somehow infested by demons and curses. It's really sad that people do things with such drastic real world consequences in someone else's life over a completely made up fairy tale that they simply don't want to admit is fake.

[@Marialla.]

My parents raised me to be fundamentalist christian. I attended two or three times a week, and read the bible on my own, and studied hard to be as perfect of a Christian as i could be. Seeking to prove the reality of the religion eventually made me realize none of it was real. When I told my Mom that I was an atheist, she actually told me I just hadn't heard the right preacher or something. She had no place in her brain for the idea that I had all the information she had, plus more, and had decided against what she believed. I'm blown away by her ability to forget how completely Christian (and scrupulously moral) I was. I wasn't "looking to sin". But that wasn't the narrative she had, so she had to rewrite everything she knew about me to force the conflicting stories to make sense.

[@leviyates4951]

Having been accused by former friends and acquaintances of such, it sucks, dude. I’m sorry

[@thetexasliberal283]

Better than my mom, she said she couldn’t talk to me anymore and then wrote a letter saying if I came to the house she would have me arrested

[@Cat_Woods]

@Marialla @@thetexasliberal283 I feel sorry for both of you. That's so harsh to lose a relationship with your mother over religion. My mother is far from perfect but she would never have done either of those things. In fact, it was one of the ways I was able to escape Christianity: I realized that God, if he did exist, had to be at least as loving as my mother, and since my mother would not punish me eternally for what I believed (or didn't), then neither would a loving God. ... but then the evangelical Christian God is not at all loving, so that argument doesn't work with them.

[@Cat_Woods]

@Marialla @@thetexasliberal283 I feel sorry for both of you. That's so harsh to lose a relationship with your mother over religion. My mother is far from perfect but she would never have done either of those things. In fact, it was one of the ways I was able to escape Christianity: I realized that God, if he did exist, had to be at least as loving as my mother, and since my mother would not punish me eternally for what I believed (or didn't), then neither would a loving God. ... but then the evangelical Christian God is not at all loving, so that argument doesn't work with them.

[@overlycaffeinatedsquirrel779]

Less than a third of Christians have ever read the bible even once. A actually open minded deep reading you did is even rarer. That's why the" you haven't heard the right preacher " comes from. Most Christians get their understanding of the bible from what others say. When you belong to a religion that tells you to dismiss logic and reason in favor of faith and obedience, it’s not that big of a leap for worshipers to act this way. .Christianity reinforces tribal identities, fears are nurtured, and aggression and nastiness are sacralized. With the rise of Christian nationalism be glad you got out.So many Christians have fully embraced MAGA cultism, QAnon conspiracy theories,. You got out at the right time.

[@THATGuy5654]

When I was a bit younger and athiest, I had a friend who did in fact invite me to her church, and I did in fact take her up on the offer. I sat down at a pew, and for an hour her preacher went on about how we were probably screwed, and if we had the slightest sin still on us without apologizing and telling God how much we loved him, we'd burn in Hell forever. His attitude made it seem like he was pretty sure most of the people in that church weren't going to make the cut. I turned to look at my friend to see if she was disturbed by this bizarre display; Her face was perfectly serene. I wouldn't say her church hurt me; I'd say it freaked me the **** out.

[@Bill_Garthright]

Many years ago, when I was young, I had a girlfriend who wanted me to go to church with her. She was just _astonished_ that I was an atheist. Well, back then, even _I_ would have been rather astonished to meet another atheist - here in Nebraska, at least. But I agreed to go to church with her (for reasons), and although I don't remember the service at all, I remember her reaction. I'm not sure if she expected me to burst into flames when I walked into the church or to fall down immediately with the love of Jesus. But she seemed to expect _something_ dramatic. I'm sure it was a big disappointment to her. :)

[@jhoughjr1]

Its kind of a balancing act really. If one isnt vigilant about the many opportunities to sin, one will succumb to them. Catholics call that scrupulousness I think. the obsession with sinning too much and never being good enough.

[@harrycooper5231]

@@jhoughjr1 Yep, if one isn't vigilant, they may miss a good opportunity to sin. :)

[@snooganslestat2030]

@@harrycooper5231 Haha yes I like to get my sinning in frequently. 😂

[@Phoenix0F8]

oh yeah, you get very used to running through a quick mental "ohgodpleaseforgivemeformysinsinjesusnameamenamenamen" every time you catch yourself glancing at a member of the opposite sex for 0.0000000001 seconds too long to make sure you don't get a heart attack and go to hell for the sin of lust. Several years after deconverting I *still* sometimes catch myself in the act of reciting some stupid pleading bullshit like that in my head. What a nightmare.

[@jz-meister5343]

When I was once a Christian, I had no issue with labels like “lost person”, but now that I am an atheist, I have such an issue with it… just because we don’t believe the Christian message doesn’t mean we are “lost”. We are just taking a different path in life. There is no one path to take in life.

[@Marialla.]

It's a little like saying Canadians are lost because they don't live in the USA, because the USA is "home".

[@jenniferhunter4074]

@@Marialla. It's also very arrogant. Christians have no problem declaring the "world" to be sinners. then, when you call them out, they'll do a texas two step and go with "But that person isn't a true Christian" and "I'm a sinner too" Either strategy is meant to weasel out of the core argument their victim is using. The Lost, the Sinners, the 'want to sin" crowd, "The evil atheist", "The evil muslim"... it's all very arrogant. Have Christians every wondered whether they are the ones who are lost? I doubt it.

[@owenoulton9312]

@@Marialla. They obviously haven't read the words to our national anthem... _"Oh, Canada! Our _*_home_*_ and native land!"_

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

So tiny insecure one, why are you concerned about what people you abandoned think about you or call you. Frankly you are lost in so many many that have nothing to do with religion. There are indeed many paths in Life. Jesus said so and it is pretty self evident. But only the insane would say that all paths go to the same place. Lost your marbles did you?

[@trybunt]

I'm fine being called lost 🤷‍♂️ they clearly think they are not, and we are. Sure, if it's true, I am lost. I just don't think that's true, clearly. And people just saying "nah, really, it's really IS true" doesn't cut it. Nor does saying "the people who wrote the bible believed it was true". It's that's basically what it comes down to.

[@Marconius6]

Here's the main thing he seems to have missed about Jesus hanging out with sinners: you need to actually *hang out* with them; not preach to them, or try to drag them to church, but actually spend time with them and treat them like human beings.

[@ATTACKofthe6STRINGS]

The number of times I hung in this point when I was a Christian. For the life of me, I couldn’t understand why “evangelism” was inviting strangers and friends to church to have a stranger talk to them about god, when the whole point of the great commission and Jesus ministry was literally going the fuck OUT of church, to where the sinners were, and literally just hanging out with them. Zachues is a great example. Short little tax collector the people hated. Climbed a tree to see this Jesus guy everybody keeps talking about. Jesus sees him and says “sup! Dinner?” After having a genuine dinner, Zacheus says the thing that every Christian seems to forget. “I’m going to give back everything I took, stole, and cheated BECAUSE YOU CAME TO EAT DINNER WITH ME WHEN NOBODY ELSE WOULD.” Jesus basically went around seeing people for who they are, instead of what they were condemned to be. But modern day Christians couldn’t possibly fathom actually and genuinely befriending someone who is “lost” in a way that doesn’t immediately make their goal disingenuous (ie, to save them). In my opinion, if a Christian’s goal is to befriend someone to get them saved, that fails entirely to do what the Bible commands us to do. The Bible clearly states a Christian’s job is to go out into the world, mimicking Jesus’ ministry in earth. As for who adds to the church? Acts tells us that THE LORD adds to the church daily those who would be saved. It’s not a Christian’s job to befriend people to save them. It’s their job to see people in ways they’ve never been seen before. It’s God’s job to save them. And, well, channels like Prophet of Zod do an excellent job showing how both God and the church are failing at their only jobs.

[@Non-religiou]

Christianity is not even true at all

[@chadmccoy8032]

Same thought exactly. No agenda.

[@starfishsystems]

​@@ATTACKofthe6STRINGS See, that would be fine, being at ease with people and not trying to control them but instead build rapport and solve problems together. But that's a description of SECULAR values. No religious belief is needed.

[@dragowolfraven3806]

Two reasons why I stopped going to church. 1.Boring 2. I have to work and I would rather be moving around and helping customers instead of nodding off in a pew. Plus I was taught to think for myself by my grandmother who despite being religious didn't shove her beliefs down anyone's throat. I was also encouraged to read other books outside of the Bible/Book of Mormon.

[@ProphetofZod]

So basically people didn't invite you to encounter Jesus over dinner, right? :D

[@LucentDragoon]

I stopped going to church years before I became an atheist because I had realized that I hadn't learned anything new from the pastors in years. It was always the same basic stories, even if they were talking about different books of the bible. I still had to fake going to church while I was still living under my parents' roof because attendance was mandatory unless I had to go to work, but there was no early morning service for my age group while my parents had their bible study to go to, so I was able to drive separately. So I'd just get to church about 15 minutes prior to the end of the main service and hang around so I could pretend that I'd been there for the whole time.

[@dragowolfraven3806]

@ProphetofZod Nope.My adopted parents are Christians but they are very nice people. No threats of hellfire.😊

[@leeshackelford7517]

I tried reading the Book of Mormon a couple decades ago....... absolutely horrific experience

[@rodneybever9583]

I was raised in much the same way. My grandma didn't buy into the eternal damnation thing and taught me to live by Christian principles even though I did not believe. By that I mean loving people, try to do good, and all that stuff. "As long as you try your best to be a good man you will have a place in heaven" is what she would say.

[@merbst]

I don't go to church because I don't like being lied to!

[@multi-milliondollarmike5127]

Same.

[@danielshultz8008]

In the bullshit department, a businessman can't hold a candle to a clergyman.

[@CaliforniaSurfer-gc2xv]

OR TO BOW TO THE MOST EVIL MADE UP THING WE CAN IMAGINE. BUT THESE PSYCHOS ARE COOL WITH. EVIL YWH HAD TO GENOCIDE THESE PEOPLE, AND HAVE HIS THUGS KEEP VIRGINS AND ENSLAVE PEOPLE.. EVIL YWH HAD TO WATER GENOCIDE ALL THE BABIES, PREGNANT OWMAN, ANIMALS, AND THOSE WOMAN, CHILDREN WERE STONES SO EVIL YWH CAN SHOW HIS LOVE AND POWER, THOSE VEIL FIRSTBORNS ARE EVIL TOO, AND EVIL YWH HATES BABIES, THEY ARE EVIL, HE HAD TO COMMAND TO USE SWORDS ON PREGNANT OWMAN, WHAT EVIL FILTH

[@hereticyogiexpectationsups4037]

After leaving a church I was told I'd always be welcome back. My reply was that I'd be happy to work side-by-side with the church in the community to help local people. They had no reply to that, and I've never seen evidence since of that church playing a role in that community. I DO work with another local church on community projects. They focus on their surrounding community and are happy to partner with a "heretic" without trying to convert me.

[@Starhawke_Gaming]

Many churches don't really care about their communities unless it helps line their own wallets. I went to a food bank run by a Catholic Church that turned a homeless family away who refused to pray.

[@Beamer1969]

Not trying to convert you is a rare thing

[@multi-milliondollarmike5127]

@@Beamer1969 I know. There are actually missions in the U.S.A that help the homeless, by giving them food, shelter, and even helping them get jobs. But the catch is that it's mandatory to attend Church services for their denomination of Christianity. If the person is an Atheist or someone of another faith, they don't care if it makes that person uncomfortable and if they don't attend he Church programming, they will kick them out and make them homeless. That's what happened to me when I was homeless, because they offered shelter, but I couldn't tolerate their blatant attempts of brainwashing. I ended up leaving even though I didn't have a plan on how I was going to survive. Thankfully I have a place now, but these Missions are predatory. They prey on people who have nowhere to go so they can prosylitize relentlessly. That's why it's surprising that this church organization op works with doesn't try to prosylitize him, since Chruches seem to never waste an opportunity.

[@jhoughjr1]

@@multi-milliondollarmike5127 WOuldnt want to be uncomfortable getting free help anything but that.

[@multi-milliondollarmike5127]

@@jhoughjr1 If they kept the brainwashing to themselves, it would have been perfect.

[@corwin32]

“…and this church was way, WAY cooler than us, y’all. Better programs, better staff, better preaching. We pretty much suck by comparison” Way to rally the troops, Kevin.

[@historicalbiblicalresearch8440]

Yep that struck me, Kevin's not a good salesman LOL

[@xwing2417]

Shame is a powerful motivator, but has diminishing returns.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

But you see, that is his point TO rally the troops... "Do not think any church is worth changing to, they all are just luring people in with shiny services and distracting gadgets, but they are not really doing good AS A CHURCH. Stay here, even if we look bland and primitive in comparison, we at least have the right message". If you look at the epistles, nothing has changed from 52 CE to 2022 CE...

[@MarkN51]

Years ago during my evangelical days, I was invited by the pastor to serve on a committee tasked with promoting church growth. I was a bit surprised to find out that, rather than fasting and praying to ask for guidance from the Lord, they hired a church growth consulting firm. These pros came in with a whole campaign planned out, and they briefed us on their strategy, which was basically that "People don't come to church to hear the Word, they come to be with their friends." That was an eye-opener, though I didn't say anything about it at the time. But the second half of their campaign was fund-raising for a building expansion, i.e. a new sanctuary that could seat more than double the capacity of the original building. The motto was, "Not equal giving, but equal sacrifice," meaning that since a $50 donation might mean cutting back on the groceries for a poor family, the well-to-do and moderately well off should contribute so much that their food budget, too, would be at risk. Years later, I'm an atheist. Go figure. I'm sure stuff like that has nothing to do with why church membership is declining.

[@joshuaa7266]

Well the part about proportional giving makes sense to some degree. But the example of giving until their food budget is at risk of being lost is a massive red flag. Some religious people would gladly do that without much convincing, expecting god to help them out.

[@KaiHenningsen]

@@joshuaa7266 It reminds me of the KZbinrs who, in sharp contrast, after listing the ways people can support them, admonish their viewers only to give what they can actually spare, and that (list of things) has precedence over supporting them. (I suspect that makes many people actually more likely to give, as they feel their needs are understood. But I don't want to suggest that is the motive - I see no reason not to take these creators at their word.)

[@massimookissed1023]

_"People are leaving. What should we do ?"_ "Add more capacity !" And this firm gets paid ?!

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

@@massimookissed1023 how about as useful as the churches they're helping

[@Farce13]

@@massimookissed1023 at least they know their audience

[@lnsflare1]

Back when I was Hindu I enjoyed going to my temple well enough, since we went whenever we wanted, wandered around the complex praying (and donating) wherever we wanted, then went to the canteen in the basement and bought some delicious Indian food (it's probably still got the best tamarind rice I've ever had, and the Dosa Hut around the corner also had great food). Plus the stories in Hinduism tended to be way more badass (seriously, guys like David and Sampson would have been vaporized in passing by Z-Lister warriors of the Ramayana or Mahabharata) and notably less sociopathic than the Christian stories I heard everywhere else growing up in Hinduism. I stopped being Hindu because I didn't see any evidence that it was true rather than not finding the temple services fun or the religious teachings cool.

[@techpriesttaris1309]

I really should read more of Hinduism just due to how cool the stories can be. And these Christians complain when people get bored of hearing for the nth number of times that Jesus died on the cross for them. Yeah maybe when you have a cool story people will at least pay attention!

[@lnsflare1]

@@techpriesttaris1309 Hinduism is anime as hell, complete with heroes and villains summoning divine weapons that could hypothetically destroy the entire universe. It's Fate/Stay Night, where everyone is a mix of Gilgamesh and Heracles.

[@rudra62]

@@techpriesttaris1309 Not to mention how MANY stories there are - and books of scripture, and types of scripture. And, these all have focuses on various/different gods/goddesses. While I doubt any of them are true, at least the stories don't get old and repetitive. And, most of them are way cooler stories, and not so much with something or someone being abused or killed for an arbitrary reason.

[@techpriesttaris1309]

The story I most remembered from the Bible was when the Israelites were tired of eating mana for a decade and asked God for a different food and he was so incensed he delivered a plague of serpents that bit people. And then Moses asked God to cool off the killing and God gave them a serpent staff to look at when you got bit and then you’d be fine. Weirdest crap I’ve ever read while somehow being pretty boring.

[@DeludedOne]

Yeah the Hindu pantheon is probably the most overpowered badasses of any pantheon (or monotheistic setting) we've heard of so far. People were shooting arrows that had power enough to literally obliterate all life on the planet.

[@LordTails]

Ex-Catholic here. The boringness of church was a turn-off. It was so steeped in tradition with seemingly very little to no concern about really helping others, which really did not help. My pastor fancied himself an apologist and published a booklet, a potential Karen ran the Confirmation classes, you ask a really important question and get a flimsy answer, need I go on. My parents pushed me to go to church but I have not heard my mother say she's going to church in some years. I am pretty sure my father only begrudgingly went since he "went to a different church at a later time" (as my mother would say) most of the time. I can definitively say there a lot of reasons I lost my faith and never went back. How the churches handled their affairs gave a list of reasons. My church alone gave me a big reason. Funny enough, I dealt with a lot of people who wanted to talk about Jesus over meals in uni. I haven't thought about that in years.

[@KaiHenningsen]

Funny how different societies can be. Only once (at least that I can remember) in 62 years did I meet someone who "wanted to talk to me about God" (don't remember their actual words, I wasn't interested and pretty offended that they wouldn't go away after I made that clear again - and again - and again ...) - and that was, of all places, on a train (where evading is tricky).

[@LordTails]

@@KaiHenningsen the kicker is more than once the person got offended I didn't want to go to church with them or talk to them about God. More than enough times I had people who were preaching about "repent or burn" while I was eating so I had to listen to sermons (one time this occurring in a place that has a large Jewish population). How different societies can be indeed.

[@JosephKano]

I would gone on longer if they had good songs I could sing loudly and off key, but no they had to get all weird unusual songs.

[@JosephKano]

I have to check something as another excatholic from Australia how long was your mass. We just wouldn't get over 45 mins 35 on a stinker hot day, while these evangelicals seem to be trapped there for hours and hours! What was your experience!? Was this just a country Aussie priest thing or what?

[@LordTails]

@@JosephKano An hour. Sometimes longer when we had the priest who rambled (pretty sure he was starting to go through dementia tbh)

[@calanm7880]

As a fairly new exvangelical, who had my mental health abused and used to belittle me by numerous narcissistic church leaders…. I’m really stoked that the “world” aka ordinary rational & generally nice ppl wouldn’t give these bizarre manipulative hypocrites the time of day. Increasingly they are forced to rely on visually attractive youth up front with “cool” instruments, to emotionally manipulate the crowd with music and by repetition use a form of crowd hypnosis. Now they add “cafe” or “food” to try dupe ppl in. The world sees through such pathetic tokenism, and transactional friendliness… took me a few decades to wake up, but even indoctrinated me was in constant cognitive dissonance at the veneer thin “fellowship”. Zod “they’re just uninterested” 👍❤️☺️

[@danielshultz8008]

I found out in most cases ....when someone finds out im an atheist they tend to be civil and nice .... Usually if we start discussing the issue ...very fast they realise that my reasons that im portraying are coming from arguments that they haven't heard before....they must reconcile the fact that there is a contradiction between what they are being told at church...and who is the actual non hypothetical human being standing before them .......since most of the religious peaple i meet daily are not professional apologists...they drop the issue ...either changing the subject or telling me they will pray for me ...... I think that when peaple see that the preacher is just "doing his job" ....and if the Preacher is found to be wrong about some issues... it reduces the need to participate......... That and the internet.....

[@timothymulholland7905]

“He ate… with the sinners.” I laughed out loud when he censored “and drank” which was the correct thing to say. Jesus drank “demon” wine like everyone else, his mom included. Will Kevin eat and drink with the sinners? I do. It’s great!

[@imjessietr29]

Jesus loved wine so much he said his blood was wine.

[@hinteregions]

I was disappointed he did not use the phrase ‘broke bread.’ This might have had some leavening effect 😃

[@CrimsonCru]

When he said people raised in non-christian cultures dont know what it's like to go to church, I almost died laughing. Going to church is a hundred times more comfortable than going to a Bhuddist Temple (specifically thai buddhists), where you do the same thing, except in the blistering heat, outdoors, and whilst kneeling on your knees or sitting in ways your legs arent meant to be bent.

[@theflyingdutchguy9870]

the only temples in tailand you see me in are the snake temples😅😂.

[@techpriesttaris1309]

Can count the number of times I was in a Church on 1-2 hands and each time it was boring and uncomfortable with some guy yelling about how evil the world is. Not counting visiting a cathedral to appreciate art and history now THAT is fun.

[@joshuaa7266]

That's pretty much standard. I could probably count on 1-2 hands the number of times I haven't been in Sunday church in the past ten years, and it's more boring than my worst college classes.

[@merbst]

Lucky you! I remember my first time attending a church service (other than catholic baptism as an infant), during a spring break with my dad's mom in Santa Monica she brought my sister and I to her Lutheran cathedral. I was 7½ and familiar with death as my mom's parents had died 22 months prior. My younger sister was sent to the daycare / Sunday school, but I got to endure getting yanked down onto the hardwood pew and shushed for what felt like 2 hours of boring hymns before the sermon started, then I was completely horrified listening to the gruesome tale of the murder of some guy in ancient times. Upon hearing the priest tell the 1000 people in attendance that the dead man returned to life, I loudly told my Oma, "He's lying! Death is forever! Why is he lying?", then she very angrily shouted something in German at me. When the priest noticed he had lost the audience's attention, he stopped talking nonsense, asked someone what the commotion was, and then spoke into the microphone "Be quiet little boy, this is God's house!". As an assertive child, well aware of the dishonesty & ignorance of adults, also out of frustration with having my curiosity shushed by Oma, I asked the adults on stage "My grandpa & grandma will never wake up again, how did he wake up again? Was it magic?" I heard someone say "Not magic, Jesus was God!", which sounded so absurd to me that I shouted "you liar!" Then to my Oma, "Why does he lie to everyone?" Instead of answering me, she covered my mouth then carried me under her arm to her car, locked me inside for a length of time that felt long, then said nothing to me for the rest of my stay. I had been pushed beyond my limit of patience firstly because I was unaccustomed to her old-world (Third Reich) style of childcare, which involved inflicting lots of pain, no explanations, and muttering to herself in German, in contrast to my parent's style of discipline that involved counting to 3, withholding of food, and silly euphemisms for spanking. Also I resented missing out on a day at the beach which is what my parents had told me is why I would want to spend a week away from my computer and NES games. All Oma had told me that day was no beach today, because on Sunday we go to Church! Not knowing what "Church" was, I recognized our destination as the Lutheran K-8 school where Oma often took us because she had the keys to the classrooms after 30 years volunteering as a teacher's assistant. Lastly the Lutheran doctrinal framing of God being a man was so wildly different than my mom's framing that God is invisible but you can hear him speak when you fold your hands and close your eyes and "pray to him" (which I also didn't believe, I had been arguing with my mom about how stupid she is to say that for the previous 2 years).

[@KozelPraiseGOELRO]

I don't like the architecture of Churchs. I am more a brutalism enjoyer.

[@multi-milliondollarmike5127]

One of the things I couldn't stand about church were the 'life groups'/ Bible study groups. These groups almost always became cliques and if someone wasn't 'in line' they'd be ridiculed or even bullied. It happened to me and it happened to my mom. But even without participating in these groups, I never felt like listening to some church pastor morally grandstand about the Bible and how the congregation needed to be better Christians. I am thankfully no longer Christian and I feel like I can finally choose my destiny rather than having a toxic religion decide it for me.

[@Bill_Garthright]

Have you ever watched Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go of God"? kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWiXXplqj7tgqdU It's a great show - very funny, but also touching. Anyway, she was Catholic, but it was a Bible study group which started her down the path to atheism (which is why your comment reminded me of that).

[@khill8645]

Yeah, bible study was awkward as a child - I was a curious kid and constantly asking questions, and the answers were always unfulfilling. As I got older, I began to recognize the post hoc reasoning and it all rang hollow.

[@jacketrussell]

I have never, in my 67 years, been to a church service apart from weddings and funerals; and only then through respect for the individuals involved. If anyone invited me around for a meal and wanted to talk about Jesus, I'd probably avoid eye contact and back away slowly.

[@Bill_Garthright]

Well, you're young yet (I'm 72), so there's still time. :) Anyway, I find that it's typically the other way around. Religious people run like hell from atheists. I enjoy talking to people who disagree with me about religion, but most Christians (and Muslims, online) seem absolutely terrified of talking to _me._ Back before the pandemic, when there were still missionaries going door-to-door (or do they just skip _my_ house now? heh, heh), some missionaries would _literally_ run from my house when I told them I was an atheist. But if I just told them I wasn't interested, they'd stick like glue. :)

[@Amateur0Visionary]

when Jesus was hanging out with "sinners", I don't remember him ever telling ANY of them that they were risking eternal torture. I wonder why he never mentioned that?

[@internetizmyhome]

The best way to change someone’s mind is to be open to changing your own and having a real conversation / series of conversations with them.

[@ProphetofZod]

So... Not telling them their a sinner with the goal of the conversation being conversion to your religion?

[@techpriesttaris1309]

“I’m telling you that you are doomed due to my story and you don’t believe me?! Must be because you wanna be a sinner.” Now if you join the cult of the Machine God you can get your plasma reactor fixed. Much better deal.

[@jymbo1969]

I'm not sure it's the best way, but it is one way. Mocking helps too. Pointing out hypocrisy is another method. Most people are not in their respective religions for logical reasons. Most who believe do so due to emotional reasons. But no atheist tactic is in any way comparable to the effectiveness of the repulsion induced by right-wing evangelicals and Catholics. Their cruelty, their bigotry, their misogyny, their hatred and their support of fringe conservative (fascist or fascism adjacent) politicians. These traits are driving the young away in droves.

[@deneb3525]

The downside to having a open mind like that is you might end up changing yours. (sarcasm as that's what happened to me.)

[@scoreyj13]

I wish I had a dollar for each time I heard someone say "I have you go to church" as I was growing up. People do not say "have to go" if it is somewhere they truly want to be.

[@mugglescakesniffer3943]

My Husband is a Christian and he does not go to church because he feels alone in a sea of people. He has tried to plug into small groups but he still feels alone because he does not know how to socialize. He feels awkward. So he watches church online. So perhaps they should start worrying about their own people before they go out and find others. My husband is a good kind man and It breaks my heart to see how much he wants to connect but can't.

[@Darca1n]

Never gonna happen with these shitstains, that would mean having to acknowledge that converting to christianity doesn't magically aolve all ills, or fix your life on its own.

[@scottgrohs5940]

I went to church for the better part of 26 years, when I was a believer. Even then I found it to be literally “getting religion” sitting in a pew in full view of other members of the assembly and the clergy and doing emotive performance art with people I barely saw or interacted with throughout the rest of the week. What I considered authentic interaction with god was impossible just based on time constraints alone, never mind the perpetual self-consciousness.

[@enzoarayamorales7220]

Ok so here's a weird story, I was never raised in a religious family but I did have religious family members from my cousin's side of the family, a few years back when I went to stay at his place for a few weeks me and his family went to church (it was a modern sort of non-denominational church y'know the type with stage performances in between sermons). Everyone seemed like they were having a good time and that they were good people however what really struck me as kinda creepy was how goddamn repetitive the experience was, from the music to the way the pastor delivered messages from the bible with a verbose and triumphant tone. It very quickly started to get unsettling. The one unique thing that stuck with me was when one of the stage performances had a christian rapper talking about how he was a delinquent and how having faith in jesus saved him from getting an ass whopping from some punks who were picking on him incentivizing him to turn his life around (keep in mind this was in florida where alot of the population was cuban so these stories are somewhat common) I was just happy he changed his life for the better as it seems since he had quite a following of fans. The rest of the experience was horrid though cause of how mind numbingly boring it was, not only did I realize that religion wasn't my thing but I also later came to the horrible realization that this whole charade was one big emotional manipulation tactic and that's the reason why the songs went on for so long, as an aspiring musical composer and musician I absolutely hate it when music is used in this way where all the life and expressiveness it can provide is sucked out in favor of indoctrination.

[@techpriesttaris1309]

I’ve had to attend a couple of times for social reasons and you are so right. I just lost interest after 2-3 minutes into a new song. Just nothing like the actual hymns that people actually like.

[@enzoarayamorales7220]

The mark of great art for me is when it can be enjoyable to anyone even those who aren't explicitly religious. For example haydn made a lot of great music for the church such as hallelujah and its amazing music on its own even without the lyrics talking about jesus in heaven. The problem with modern religious music is that it doesn't respect the art form on its own and is only interested in pushing the religion on its followers instead of doing something new and interesting with it.

[@multi-milliondollarmike5127]

I was raised Pentecostal and that branch of Chrisrianity is very cultlike. Everyone takes the Bible and the miracles written in it literally. They also think they can literally hear from god, and the methods they use to try to hear from 'god' can legitimately drive someone crazy. Those churches were a breeding ground for mental illness.

[@martifingers]

Hi Enzo. I liked your comment - perhaps you would be interested in this on the issue of Christian music: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnKmhq1qjLuKrc0

[@protoborg]

My mother knows damn well I'm a fucking atheist, but insists dragging me along to her "church" every chance she gets. The funny thing is the man she is with is just as much an atheist as my father was when they were married. So the one really big thing I remember about mom's church is that, despite being "all-inclusive", it is boring as fuck! I damn near fell asleep like three times. Mom is like "but it's good for socializing". Sure. If you don't mind having your brains beaten to much by some nutjob who thinks that getting all hippy about the bible is somehow going to make the "message" that much more connected to reality. Frankly, I'm amazed Mom's partner/boyfriend is able to tolerate that bullshit. I feel sorry for the guy quite frankly. Admittedly, my boyfriend is a Christian, but he doesn't go to church and never brings it up so I can deal with his beliefs.

[@larrys9879]

I was a Christian Fundamentalists for 47 years. I served as a Deacon, Elder, teacher, and evangelist. I never met a Christian that claimed they were without sin. Christians commonly acknowledge they are sinners, but they are under grace so their sins are forgiven…….even though, they admit, they continue to sin. Apparently being under grace is the equivalent of having a “get out of jail free card” when it comes to sin. Nonbelievers sins count and will send them to hell, because they didn’t get the “get out of jail free card” by submitting to baptism. Apparently being saved is mostly about semantics. Say the right words and get baptized and you’re safe, and your “get out of jail card” is your ticket to "sin” all you want. Porn addiction is a major problem in every church but it’s rarely or never addressed from the pulpit. Affairs and porn are just as much of a problem for “church goers” as they are for people in general. Sexless marriages are also a big problem among the “forgiven” too. The internet is the real reason churches are failing. The real historical truth about the origins and evolution of both the Bible and the Christian faith is easily accessible with the click of a computer key, and it isn’t what you hear in church.

[@grapeshot]

I don't come to church because I'm an atheist plus when I did go to church it was often times incredibly boring and hot.

[@ProphetofZod]

Yeah, I almost never enjoyed church in all my years as a Christian. I thought I should, and sometimes found some preaching okay, but at some point you have to be realistic.

[@MadHatter42]

Sooooo hot, especially when the priest starts doing a striptease. Like, at least save that until after the communion, ya’know?

[@KozelPraiseGOELRO]

Boring and hot... Like hell?

[@grapeshot]

@@KozelPraiseGOELRO there is no Hell or Heaven or Souls.

[@KozelPraiseGOELRO]

@@grapeshot I know, I am bit militant atheist, I was joking. A "Holy" place being like the wost place for those who believe it is the nexus with their God. Irony.

[@toomuchado]

When my Grandmother died her pastor went over funeral services planning with my parents. The MOST pressing question was “how much money did Avis leave us?” Meaning what am I, the pastor, getting? 🤬🤬🤬

[@hubguy]

It's really weird that people who so desperately want those outside of their group to look inward can't do it themselves

[@matthewrichards8218]

I laughed out loud when he said people are scared to death of the church. 😆

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

I'm scared to death of full grown adults having enough power to have a big impact on my life, who also base their decision making skills on Santa Claus and conspiracy theories.

[@KaiHenningsen]

I grew up a non-believer in a Christian environment. Been to church uncountable times. Didn't do one bit to make me believe. Also, I never came across the whole concept of "being saved"until I heard (first in science fiction, I believe) about the strange ideas people had in the US. The same is true for, for example, firebrand preachers, or in fact any serious talk about hell ... or homosexuality. These things still seem so very weird (and very offputting) to me.

[@KaiHenningsen]

Another weird thing. I never figured out the religiosity level of my family members. And from the amount of conflicting info I gathered, I suspect, neither did they. This suggests to me (now that I think about it) that at least for many of them, it was a performance that (at least in their view, but I suspect also in reality) society expected from them, and not anything to do with actual beliefs.

[@rodneybever9583]

I was in the same boat and as an adult I wonder what that did to my young mind. Told I was bad if I didn't believe so I lied and said I believed, but I was told I was bad if I lied. No way to come out ahead.

[@Bill_Garthright]

@@KaiHenningsen I grew up a non-believer, too, and yet _everyone_ I knew was a Christian (as far as I knew, at least). And I never had a bad experience in church (Methodist, so... pretty mild compared to other religious experiences I hear about). This was also a very long time ago, so there was no internet and no mention of atheism anywhere (not in my small Nebraska town, at least). I just don't ever remember believing it (and I _do_ remember believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny). But it was hard for me to believe that anyone _else_ believed it, either. No one - *no one* - _acted_ like they believed it. As far as I could tell, they just pretended that they believed it for an hour on Sundays and then ignored it the rest of the week. I'm not sure why I never believed it, myself. I know why I don't believe it _now,_ of course. But as a little kid, it wouldn't have taken _much,_ I don't think. When I asked my mom why we had to go to church (I would have rather stayed home to read), she always replied, "Because that's what decent people do." Well, she'd been raised this way, of course. But that wasn't very convincing to _me._ I grew up thinking that religion was kind of silly, but harmless. It wasn't until decades later, during the George W. Bush administration, that I finally realized how wrong I'd been about the "harmless" part. Faith-based thinking is destroying my country and my world. But it's still hard to accept that people actually _believe_ this stuff. They sure don't _act_ like they believe it.

[@Bill_Garthright]

@@rodneybever9583 Ugh! I was luckier than that, because I never told my parents, or any other adult, that I didn't believe it - or that I did, for that matter. It just didn't occur to me, and no one ever asked. :) I remember asking my mother about the Easter Bunny, when I was having doubts. She just said, "What do _you_ think?" That was all. I got the idea that I needed to make up my own mind about things like that. I don't know if she meant that to apply to "God," too, but that's how I took it. :) Of course, we went to the Methodist Church, which - in our small town, at least - wasn't in any way traumatizing. I don't _ever_ remember anyone talking about Hell. I suppose that happened, but it wasn't any big deal. And this was before the Republican Party in America adopted their "Southern strategy" of deliberately wooing white racists, so religion wasn't political the way it is today, either. No one really seemed to take it seriously, when it wasn't political. Or as far as I could tell, at least.

[@thomasridley8675]

When they talk about saving souls. It's usually because the money isn't the coming in to support their con job.

[@davidharding1299]

I was 21 when I finally made my escape from religion. For all those years, I went because my mother went and wanted my sister and I to go to. My dad only went Christmas Eve (which I think I was always jealous of). But I never felt the presence of God... or felt like He was looking out for me... or answering my prayer (which I stopped making after enough of them weren't answered). Years earlier, my mother made us join the Junior Choir and the Youth Group... but honestly, I never wanted to be in either (just like the Boy Scouts wasn't my idea either). And in fact, once I got into High School, I taught Sunday School (which got me out of the choir duties) so I didn't have to sit up in church trying to stay awake... but that only lasted 5 years and after an off-putting incident when one child in my class wouldn't give a bible to another because of his skin colour (which became the subject of the sermon on 2 consecutive Sundays - and myself and one other were blamed for it - which did nothing for my waning interest in even going to church). Then something happened. The younger brother of a friend of mine (we were all still in our late teens) was killed by a drunk driver (he wasn't wearing a seatbelt so he did contribute to his own demise). This guy and his family were staunch Calvary Baptists... and I just couldn't figure out the sense of it. In fact, after his funeral - in the hall where they were serving refreshments - I had the biggest urge to scream at 2 old ladies who I overheard talking about my friend's brother and how "I guess God was just calling him home." I got so angry with them. That's not an answer... or if it is, it's a child's answer. And a child's answer just wasn't good enough for me anymore. So I kept going to the same Anglican church I'd always gone to... even though it was the last place I wanted to be. I think sensing that I wasn't happy there, the Minister (a really nice man) and some others thought all I needed to come around... was more involvement. So I was asked to do more. And the more I was asked... the more I started pushing back... because of course, nothing had changed for me. I was still frustrated by this thing I couldn't solve. Until finally, I just couldn't do it anymore. And on Mother's Day that year, I put it all out there on the table... and just said to my mother that I would not be going to church anymore (which put me in her bad books for a while) with lengthy (blame-filled) reasons why (most of which I regret now). I turned 57 a couple of weeks ago... which means I have been out of the church for many more years than I ever in the church. And even now, there is nothing there for me. My mom still goes regularly (or she did before COVID limited who could attend church in-person - now church is online)... and my sister would go when it was convenient for her to go (which wasn't often). My dad - even after he did a lengthy stint on the church's cemetery board - still never went to church. Difficult questions that receive silly, ridiculously easy and childish answers were never going to change my mind. For a couple of years after I left, I did keep trying to figure it out... but I never did. Because those answer don't exist. "God is calling him home." and "Sometimes the answer is no." just won't cut it anymore. Not for me. I'm an atheist/agnostic because the theist way was ultimately an vacuous one. And it's based on my own experiences (or lack of experiences with pretty much every aspect of it). I don't have a problem with what happens to me when I die... because I believe we just stop. IMHO, there is no Heaven or Hell. Just nothing and nothingness... and to be honest, I find that extremely comforting.

[@cliftongaither6642]

thanks for sharing your story. im 52 and was raised mormon , long , long story. but i relate to your story very much . i too feel comfort of nothingness , of not existing anymore . although , i often find myself pondering what that would be like , to not consciously exist anymore, and then , i think to myself that it doesn't matter because i won't know as my conscience doesn't exist . and that , to me , is comforting . did my babble make any sense ? lol take care.

[@davidharding1299]

@@cliftongaither6642 It made perfect sense. I think a lot of people have a really hard time wrapping their heads around the concept of "nothingness"... at least when it comes to death. That's why they draw comfort from the idea that somehow, people are special and we have a soul that moves on to Heaven (or Hell) or to a higher plain of existence after we die. The idea that, from a cosmic standpoint, we're here on Earth for a very short period of time and then we die and there's nothing more - that our bodies rot away and give nutrients back to the Earth and everything we were and everything we knew is lost - is just inconcievable to them. There has to be more... because otherwise, what's the point? That's (collectively) a somewhat arrogant way to look at human life... but I think I can understand why they think that way. My mother once told me that she didn't understand how people who didn't believe in God even found a reason to get up in the morning. I replied with, "What's the alternative?" We get up and go to work so we can pay our bills, buy food, etc... we live and love and then the next day, we get up and do it all over again. What's so hard to understand about that? That's the structure our societies have set up for us... not God.

[@cliftongaither6642]

@@davidharding1299 i like your logic. thank you.

[@michaelannen4168]

People are sick of being lied to.

[@WillTellU]

I don't have a drinking problem - I'm a fervent believer!

[@jeanettewishall6362]

I remember attending an Indian Summer event that through a weekend in September in Northeast Oklahoma and I was there on a Sunday where an outdoor, public church assembly was going on. There was a LOT Of talk about how "the lost" would suffer horribly in hell and how if they could see what would happen to them they would convert. And the preacher literally said, "I guarantee that if you saw someone tortured in an UNGODLY FASHION, you would do whatever it took to avoid that!" Emphasis mine. And I just stood there and wondered aloud... "did this guy just tell me that God was ungodly in his behavior?" And some random person also waiting in line for funnel cakes said "Yup! Sounds about right!"

[@thomasjames6680]

A lot of right wing evangelical Christians also wilfully ignore how much their bigotries, biases and intolerances drive a lot of younger people away.

[@stevewebber707]

I tend not to attend church, as I don't like feeling like a hypocrite repeating things I don't believe. Or being pressured to say things I don't believe. Or being preached to about things I don't believe. Maybe if it wasn't for all the religious stuff, I might go back though.

[@jstube36]

I have listened to a number of these ministers and apologists trying to understand why people are leaving. Instead of actually gaging these "lost Sheep", these preachers and priests conclude to themselves reasons that are assumptions at best. They seem to purposefully ignore the bigger elephants in the room. The biggest perhaps being the validity and trust of the ancient scriptures. These are being seen as myth instead of truth. There are an increasing number of those who read the Bible and reject it outright whether myth of fact. Another big Elephant is Evolution. The more Darwin's theory is understood and accepted, the more it negates what was written in Genesis. These are at least 3 very big elephants that the Churches/religions need to pay more attention to. The great walking away will continue. Whether these preachers see why or not.

[@juanausensi499]

That works for literalists, but Catholics aren't literalists and they accept science (and Catholicism is world's biggest denomination). But they also lose believers.

[@amandaliss]

the points at the end about christianity not making as much sense to generations that can look up and debunk any of these miraculous things is spot on

[@JamesRichardWiley]

I quit church because I wasn't having any fun or learning anything.

[@DannyWJaco]

Maybe seekers notice the lack of genuine love and empathy in most of the prominent voices of the Christian faith.

[@charlesyates8228]

I’m reminded of the very first time I ever "went to church". (I was in Luxembourg at the time.) Near the start of the year, The kindergarteners and girls went to the church in the upper part of town, and boys went to the church in the lower part of town. The Father started by saying "I see so many smiling faces, I don’t know if it’s because you are back in school, or because you are in church". When I looked around, I didn’t see a single smiling face. This Pastor you showed is just as delusional as that Father. The Father didn’t know what smiling faces looked like, and this Pastor doesn’t see that he is the problem. Even his friends don’t want to hear him preach. I’m curious. Is he going to offer a full breakfast for the morning service? Will he offer a full dinner or lunch for evening and noon Services? Or, is he preparing his church for the sale of this ‘facility’ with future meetings to be in the banquet/ private dining rooms of local restaurants?

[@MadHatter42]

It’s possible he meant it as a joke, but, surprisingly, joking about how much it sucks to go to school or church doesn’t actually make doing those things suck any less.

[@charlesyates7370]

@@MadHatter42 Couldn't tell you how he was as a Pastor. As a Comedian, he needed more talent

[@chables74]

I’m dechurched, and, don’t get me wrong I’ve been plenty hurt by organized religion. But my experiences in organized Christianity also contain some of the best and happiest moments of my life, and, while I am no longer Christian, I still participate in organized religion even knowing that my new faith has likely hurt others in the same way I was hurt in the past, because the harm I incurred as a result of my Christianity had nothing to do with me leaving it and I recognize that there is inherent danger of harm in any social human enterprise.

[@ZeusAssassin]

What was the censored bleep for? Also. I left church because it got WAY too politicized and painted a hateful target on the friends I was hanging out with in real life and online. It did not feel like a loving community anymore, but an exposed cult

[@massimookissed1023]

I think it was keeping a geographic location private.

[@Slysheen]

Probably a town/city name. PoZ mentioned it's a church he used to go to so he probably doesn't want people to harass Kevin or know where he lives. And seeing the unhinged people that show up sometimes when youtubers have public addresses; I don't blame him.

[@angeliparraguirre7329]

Doesn't wanna dox the dude or maybe even himself

[@lnsflare1]

Never trust anyone that claims that they talk for God.

[@Thoron_of_Neto]

You'd figure god could speak for itself, but the list of reasons for why it won't, is only overtaken by the list of complaints about how fast Christianity is dying from pastors like this one lol.

[@flowingafterglow629]

Or Zod.

[@KozelPraiseGOELRO]

​@@flowingafterglow629Who is Zod? And where can we find him?

[@bradypustridactylus488]

People ask: Why do you have five translations of the Bible? Why do you have a bookcase groaning with atheist and naturalist books? Why do you spend 10 to 20 hours a week on social media watching counter-apologetic videos and making comments? Why are you obsessed with this issue? The answer is simple enough. I am fighting for my life. Everyday someone uses the Bible or some moralistic tenet from Christianity to tell me, sometimes directly, more often in code, that I don't deserve to live, or have any rights, or that I should be shunned and excluded from human society. That is why I see Christianity losing its appeal. Many people no longer want to live in a bigoted, anti-intellectual strait jacket. They want to have people such as myself as friends, or at least as countrymen. When this tyrannical narrow view of life and morality is all Fundamentalism has to offer, people will move to more socially affirmative philosophies. The current Supreme Court has made it clear in action why this worldview is toxic, and that if we are to survive as a species or the USA as a country, we need to rein in the Fundamentalist nonsense.

[@martifingers]

Totally right. I would add that the decline of church power would be expected to pose a real crisis for believers. I have become very sympathetic to the ideas of Terror Management Theory. Put very very crudely, cultural identity (including faith) is a way of assuaging death anxiety. As those assumptions are confronted with other forms of identity and other beliefs about what it means to be human there is a tension. I can't be right if you are right and I have to be right to cope with the existential anxiety of being mortal. I see this as part of the explanation for the beleaguered, almost paranoid sense of persecution that Trump and the rest tapped into.

[@radishpineapple74]

That's a lot of time to spend on counter-apologetics but to each their own.

[@anotherguyonthepc5]

If you don't want that, then keep that same energy towards the left as well. Fundamentalist Christianity and the woke garbage the left is pushing are two shit sandwiches with makeup on.

[@zenkim6709]

​@@radishpineapple74> That's a lot of time to spend on counter-apologetics Different people deconvert at different rates -- which seems perfectly aligned w/ individual variation. More to the point, different religious upbringings may pose a greater or lesser obstacle to those religious community members (primarily but not limited to children & young adults) who possess sufficient scientific literacy & critical faculties to recognize & fully admit to the fundamental flaws of religion & "faith-based thinking" as a viable worldview & life strategy -- especially in fundamentalist Christian communities in which early enrollment in Sunday School programs that pound the "fear of God" & the supposedly eternal flames of hellfire & damnation into the minds of little kids is not only commonplace, it is aggressively promoted as moral practice. Seriously, some grownup Christians struggle for decades to overcome the fear of Hell in an effort to deconvert.

[@brianm6337]

"...Everyday someone uses the Bible or some moralistic tenet from Christianity to tell me, sometimes directly, more often in code, that I don't deserve to live, or have any rights, or that I should be shunned and excluded from human society." I'm one of those people. My life is hell.

[@4Mr.Crowley2]

As a former Catholic I can say that many, many Catholics I know who haven’t necessarily become atheists but no longer practice left the church as the endless SA cases came to light starting in the 00s etc. The Catholic Church is hemorrhaging believers; the church will claim their numbers are growing because they focus on a few areas that still have new believers joining the church for a variety of complex social and political reasons (as in Africa for example). In countries like Ireland and of course in the US they are in serious trouble. People don’t hold an absurd reverence for priests as they did five decades ago, and because the church refuses to address issues with holy orders they are also losing priests at a massive rate. The old guys are not being replaced…

[@AdmiralBison]

As a former Catholic long time Athiest I stopped going to church sometime after highschool not because of the SA scandals, but of course that did play apart in my stopped going, it was my "open mindedness" that ultimately made me both stop going to churches and dropped my religious beliefs. It was a combination of 'Comparative Religion' and being exposed to the greater world that did it for me. I had friends of both many different religious beliefs and denominations, Ive hung around Mormons, Muslims, Hari Krishnas, New Age etc.. One simply can't reconcile all of that with the one religious denomination they were brought up with. This is the same route I see happening with many Christians as they are more deist the longer they stay away from church, just with me it was accelerated. I have a love for Science - Biology, Chemistry and of course that came into contention with what I was told in church... Well Lets just say I went to University for a Science degree, not a theological one.

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

Those are some impressive blinkers the pastor has: "no, the problem can't be me or my religion, it's everyone else who's got it wrong!" 😂

[@031767sc]

money, money, money.... its all about money

[@bariumselenided5152]

While he clearly has big issues with his thinking (churches only lose members cuz they move or die being the best example) , I actually am glad for this trend in churches. The last church I was a part of happened from a split with a southern baptist convention church. The members who hated the order and structure of it left after some turning point, and made a homey type church thing where we got together and ate food and stuff instead of just “worshipping” . Lecture leaders revolved. It was a lot more fun than normal church, and while I was already pretty far from what they believed, I did find myself more seriously considering stuff they said in that context. Also, had I not been plagued by painful shyness and chronic shame, I might’ve actually found the more intimate friendly nature of it comforting, it might’ve been a good place to talk about my problems and hear possible solutions (even if some of the solutions would’ve been religious nonsense) . Most of all though, what I saw from that church was it felt less like everyone saw sinners as just a number. They were _more_ willing to just vibe with people and do charity work without shoving YHWH down everyone’s throat. Old habits die hard, of course, but they at least made an attempt. They were confident enough that if they just made a loving and happy community, then sinners in need of that community would naturally come to it like moths to a flame. I still had plenty of issues with a lot that they did (one big issue was using tragedy as a means to get people hooked on Jesus, or swapping heroine addiction for Jesus addiction), but they were the least toxic about evangelizing that I ever remember seeing. Idk. I mean, good ol Kev here wasn’t doing the best job in the world of saying this, but maybe somebody took from it “Ya know, maybe I shouldn’t beat everyone I see over the head with chick tracts and my church’s business card. Maybe I should just treat them as people and friends” . I guess all I’m saying is that this is a better message than most messages that evangelicals have for us

[@chadmccoy8032]

I used to judge myself for not sharing the love of Christ. Thank Gawd I didn’t.

[@Anonymous-md2qp]

The 4 points you made at the beginning reminded me of what advertising does when promoting a product. 1) Our product is the best 2) You will be happier with our product (you’re deficient currently) 3) Just pay x amount of money 4) You must buy this product immediately

[@flowingafterglow629]

One of the most important ways to be successful in marketing is to 1) Convince someone that they have a problem, and 2) Convince them you are the only one who can solve it Like on The Big Bang Theory, when Bernadette said her company "invented and cured 'restless eye syndrome' in the same week." ("Ca-ching you blinky apes!") This is Christianity in a nutshell. 1) Convince people they are all evil sinners who need saving 2) Claim your religion is the only salvation The whole model falls apart if you don't accept the premise.

[@hatuletoh]

I had an old Russian history professor who was born, grew up, and lived a good portion of his adult life in Soviet communism. He upset the hell out of my uni class in Utah by claiming--and demonstrating--how Soviet communism and modern American christianity had basically identical perspectives on the world, and their groups' relationships to it. I can't remember all the points these years later, but one that still sticks out in my mind was what the professor called "the inevitably of dissemination due to inarguable superiority," or in other words, "all the savages will immediately adopt OUR way of doing things just as soon as they have it properly explained to them." And when confronted with resistance to adoption of their ideas, in order to cling to their fundamental beliefs about themselves and avoid cognitive dissonance, both christianity and communism had/have to make up a narrative about why people don't immediately and enthusiastically embrace their beliefs. Naturally, these narratives always explain the phenomenon by somehow blaming the people who resist, and never by a self-searching examination of the narratives themselves.

[@sashablueperson]

I remember a pastor once using an anecdote about how ivory soup got extra mixed with air making it float as a "meaningful" analogy for us being special in the world. This was before google, but even then it sounded silly to me to be compared to fluffy soap.

[@rudra62]

So, was this paster saying that the faithful were extra mixed up, like Ivory Soap?

[@jackieking1522]

Inuit hunter " If I had died without ever having knowledge of your God, would I have gone to hell?" Xian Missionary " Oh no. Our Lord makes special provision for the unreached." Hunter " Then why did you tell me.?"

[@bigskypioneer1898]

I actually used to belong to a high demand church organization that met in people's homes. Some cities would rotate meetings between the homes of members... other cities we met in the home of the local minister. We did everything as far as services go that other church's do (except for instrumental accompaniment during hymns). Every year we had a meeting or convention at the church's international HQ - and that was literally the only time we ever sat in an auditorium/pew style church (we even had a rather nice sound system for hymns). My point? meeting in the homes doesn't save church's - its a nice idea - but the constant hamster wheel of getting the house ready for meeting 2x a week is rather intense, counselling sessions with parishioners... not very private and people STILL drift away. In fact attending church in a dedicated building has many advantages over meeting in homes. I know when we hosted 2x a week - my family was exhausted and we were less likely to hear what was preached because all of our effort went into getting ready for the meeting itself. Any way - I'm just saying this is one of those ideas that looks nice on paper - but there is a reason the ekklesia moved from people's homes to a shared building in the community. Plus - one of the things I learned when I found out about some of the deceitful practices of the upper church leadership was that we met in homes so they didn't have to pay rent, a janitorial staff or a landscaping crew. They basically just got all of the tithe without much of the headache. We were a small church organization - but we did have fellowships in every major city around the world that allowed for the practice of Christianity. We had groups in every U.S. state as well. So we weren't as big as say the Baptist church - but we weren't tiny either. If I recall they said we had a million followers world wide - so small as world denominations of Christianity go but bigger than your local 1 building non-denominational congregation.

[@michaeltullo8232]

Ray Comfort's " Way of the Master" evangalizing method to the letter. I started teaching "The Way of the Master" in my home church, and it lead to my "deconversion"

[@AdmiralBison]

More like "way if the conman" Apparently Ray Comfort was a second hand car salesman back in his native country New Zealand. I could see why his skills would be applicable to selling Religion and make more money that way, the way things are going with Religious decline perhaps he should go back to selling cars. With second hand car salesmen at least the lemon they sell people is real.

[@jamessandsmark226]

In the Christian church I grew up in it was accepted that everybody sitting in the congregation and the pastors were all sinners.

[@theisticatheist2983]

I heard versions of this sermon 40+ years ago! Pastor Kevin's tone and cadence is bringing back gut memories. Amazing how that tone has not changed over the decades! I heard enough "this is not how ancient Christians worshipped" back then that I left for a much more traditional pre-Reformation church. I've been mentally deconverted for over a decade, but I'm still deeply involved in this church and its practices on a lay person level. I'll take liturgical meditative worship over happy clappy singing mixed with guilt inducing sermons any day! -- even if I no longer find the historical resurrection of Jesus or the existence of a God plausible. That the Evangelicals are still as strong as they are says something, I think, about the power and evolutionary basis of the human religious impulse. If my pre-Reformation church, that claims to be directly connected to the early church and has the credentials to prove it, isn't catching on like I thought it would, maybe it isn't the power of the Holy Spirit driving people to the true faith. It's just that people want something to believe in, because that mental state has simple evolutionary survival benefits. If that something has a nice kid's program and encourages large families, yeah, it may stick around longer than expected simply for that reason. Switching to house churches or returning to Christianity's roots isn't going to boost numbers or make them worse. If people are able to thrive and have families without benefits of religion, it may slowly pass away -- kind of what's long been happening to our north and across the Atlantic.

[@timothymulholland7905]

I went to church from birth to 21. 50 years later, I remember pleasant times in choir and socializing, but not a single sermon or teaching.

[@elirien4264]

I was raised Catholic, and the more I learned about it's history and the history of the Bible, the less I could believe.

[@annaschofield]

Zod is going for the superhero masked look- I love it!!

[@ProphetofZod]

Thanks! I'm trying to reduce the amount of noise, especially directly against the background.

[@ethelredhardrede1838]

@@ProphetofZod Does that make the files significantler smaller?

[@snallygaster5]

I'll admit, I don't really like it. It makes it seem like you're looking at the ground. It's a minor quibble, and it's not going to make me stop watching

[@Queldonus]

“Could my message be wrong? No, never. It has to be the kids… I mean the format.”

[@norelfarjun3554]

It reminds me of the time I worked in an electronics store Management decided to make some moves that kept customers away from the store As a result, there were fewer sales So the VP called all the employees for a call and scolded us, because he has to solve this problem somehow This of course did not work

[@jollyandwaylo]

I was forced to go to Catholic Church. When I was quite young, I can't remember exactly but surely before I was 8, I realized I had better take this seriously with the threat of torture and all that looming. So while the priest was babbling in Latin, I thought through the whole story that was in our Catechism. When I tried to make sense of the story, I couldn't. Why would god send his only son to be tortured to save humanity from sin? How would that do any good? Was the idea that it was good advertisement about god? Eve eating an apple in the garden caused so much suffering for thousands of years? That is when I started to gain an understanding that I couldn't trust god or the priest to tell me the truth. I had already noticed that adults lied to kids a lot to try to trick us into doing what they wanted. Once the doubt started, it was just a matter of getting older and learning more about the world to realize that it REALLY makes no sense. The story doesn't hold together at all once I had read stories that were better written. To this day, I can't understand how people can't see all the holes in the story.

[@silvertail7131]

It truly is the holiest text around, isn't it. I love how our language worked out

[@angeliparraguirre7329]

I can relate. It is unfortunate that this happened to you.

[@008-._79]

He did this so god can be a just and loving god Think about it,he is perfect and sin leads to death so we could not be with him and the onlt way would be the perfect sacrifice Jesus died for our sins after a 100% pure life so we can unite with him and our father in heaven

[@008-._79]

It has been 2 years,but i hope you are okay

[@008-._79]

Also,the fruit is not confirmed,but it caused sin because they broke the law of god (do not eat from this tree),leading to suffering and death

[@thesuitablecommand]

I am curious how many people share my experience, in one way or another. In my household as I grew up, the outside world was pretty much checked at the door. Politics, religion, and social issues would almost never be discussed in my house. Not that it wasn't allowed, it just never came up. The outside world stayed on the outside, and the only rule on the inside was, "be a decent human being, to the best of your ability." Even when I was going through confirmation, my parents didn't have anything to say about any of it. Which led to a very confused statement of faith at the end, where I basically plagiarized the Apostle's Creed because I didn't know what the "right answer" was. My parents eventually lost respect for our pastor at our (Presbyterian) church because of things going on in his personal life, so we stopped attending and started church shopping elsewhere. But we never found one that worked for us, so we all just stopped going to church. And because religion was checked at the door, it just disappeared from my life at that point. This would've been around mid high school. I didn't think much about it until I was in my second year at college. During that time, I considered myself a "loose Christian," by which I meant, I would say I believed, but I never really prayed, and never read the Bible, and never spent much time thinking about God or the reasons why I believed. But after a while, I thought, "is it bad that I never think about that stuff?" So, I looked up some stuff regarding why people who believe believe, and why people who don't don't. That led to a many-year dive into debates and discussions and arguments and responses, during which I encountered personalities such as Prophet of Zod, Paulogia, Braxton Hunter, Cameron Bertuzzi, Sir Sic, the Horsemen of New Atheism, Craig, Sye Ten and all the presuppers, the list goes on. Lots of people had lots to say. And what I found was that the more I looked into the topic, the more I came to believe that Christianity is, frankly, absurd. At least the mainstream denominations are. The more symbolic or non-literal brands are more reasonable, but arguably are also less Christian. So now, I am very firm in my belief that Christianity as described by the Bible is just wrong, and Christianity as described by most Christians is _almost certainly_ wrong, and is _almost certainly_ not really the religion described in the Bible.

[@derreckwalls7508]

It's sad that a preacher's indiscretions can ruin a churches reputation. When I was 8yrs old I went from an evangelical Baptist church that tried to exorcise the demons of my moderate autism with the "laying on of hands" (traumatic, to say the least) to my grandmother's Presbyterian church. They were too different worlds. The Presbyterians understood my autism and you never heard a hateful or fearful word from the pulpit. They ran a food bank and a free clinic, and the only indication that they were religiously affected was a small plaque on the wall required by law. My youth group did volunteer work with the secular community and there was never any proselytizing. They were truly good people, but they had some pretty bad Calvinist doctrine that made me first question my faith. I can't thank them enough for that!

[@chadmccoy8032]

This is a great video!! Thank you for what you do.

[@sbushido5547]

I guess this is just what happens when you hold up your religious beliefs as some sort axiom. They can't even *_entertain_* the idea that it's not true, and that's why people are unconvinced and leaving the church.

[@008-._79]

You cant leave man,he IS the way,the truth and the life and that means only he is the path to eternal life with god God bless.

[@pjaworek6793]

They don't know how to pretend they value modern individualism.

[@merbst]

The dechurched & unchurched are not lost, indeed they have found themselves.

[@toomuchado]

Preachers “do you all realize how much money I could scam out of these people, if they only believed the fairytales???”

[@georgem2334]

I'm the un churched since age ten. I believe in reason, logic, and the beauty of science. No Jesus required or desired.

[@tonyfendex2558]

The current attacks on science, which it's STILL happening today especially with evolution, made me see who they are: COMPULSIVE LIARS. You know telling shit like...Satan planted evidence for evolution. I'm still in shock that some people believe all those LIES!!!

[@iceblaster1252]

It never would’ve stopped me from stopping being religious, but man, religious ceremonies and traditions on how church should be done really suck all the air out of the room. I think services that amount to concerts aren’t any better bc it’s more a focus on anything but religion, but the worst churches I’ve been to are those that do the ‘three hymn, responsive reading, sermon’ every week. No variety except when it’s July and they bust out the anthem or December and they bust out the Christmas songs.

[@shgysk8zer0]

I don't disagree with anything POZ said here, but it actually mostly support the message of this pastor. I even brought up the point about how the early churches existed when evangelicals started whining about not being able to have hundreds of people meeting once a week in a church. It wouldn't convince me that a god existed or anything, and it could certainly go wrong if Christians started being more direct in attempts to covert me, but I'm all for the "Jesus hung out with sinners" and "church isn't a building/business" aspects of the message. I mean, it's a ton better than the echo chamber of judgemental assholes found so often with the way things are now. Maybe if not Christians spent more time hanging out with "sinners" they wouldn't fall for all the "dumb things Christians say to atheists" because they'd know better. Plus, maybe it'd lead to churches actually doing something helpful... I mean, the early churches were selling their possessions to help the poor.

[@Jaigarful]

Yeah, I was basically a fundamentalist growing up, went to a Christian High School. My bible teacher was a far more progressive/grass roots kindof Christian. He didn't believe that having a building dedicated to church services as a good use of funds. Instead, they often had smaller gatherings of around to/up to 20 people (cant remember the exact number) and used the tithe for missions work. Funding missionaries, local charities, etc. It was his approach to going back to grassroots Christianity combined with something my grandmother said they led me away from Christianity. It was the realization that the Church as we knew it was more focused on self preservation than actually doing what it claimed to do.

[@jameswest8280]

Losing members = losing revenue.

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

Smashed the like button 👍🏻

[@Nehji_Hann]

I left the church at around 21 or so. Up until I was 18 I was forced to go to church by mom. After 18, I decided to go to a church by myself on my own terms and see if I could get more into it without the social inhibitions that the presence of my family would bring. For a few short years I tried and had some success finding faith, reading my bible on my own time like I should have years before. The bible included things that I've never once heard a pastor teach, things that cannot be explained away and showed how shitty the whole religion is. Of course I was still indoctrinated and had to slowly break away from the church, and it took a lot longer to break away from my indoctrinated fears, but I'm finally free from that shit and can truly be myself now.

[@heiyuall]

“Preachers with more charisma than me are making more money than me, so my sheep need to bring more sheep until there’s enough to buy me that car.”

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Best summary in the comment section.

[@Edk3689]

After 39 years of being a believer i dropped the crap once i dug deep into the Bible and more i read the more i knew it was bullshit…..

[@nagranoth_]

I like to imagine he says something incredibly rude with each beep, rather than the place name.

[@diarmuidkuhle8181]

I wonder how it is that I feel so grounded and content in my life once I became 'lost' while being terrified, miserable and paranoid before.

[@Bill_Garthright]

To me, the funniest thing about this is that Christians usually seem _terrified_ of actually talking to an atheist. I mean, sure, they'll preach about it. They'll agree among themselves on how important it is. But they're not going to actually _do_ it, are they? I often see Christian videos, because they put "atheist" or "atheism" in the title or description of the video. Sometimes, they're all about how to talk to atheists, how to evangelize to us, and always, how _important_ it is to share the faith with nonbelievers. But does that mean they want to talk with _me,_ then? Of course not. I'll often comment, as an atheist. I tell them the truth, that I enjoy talking to intelligent people who disagree with me about religion, that I'd be _happy_ to have a conversation, a back-and-forth discussion, either in the comments or by email. And what's the result? Typically, no takers at all - not for an actual conversation, a back-and-forth discussion. Even at videos where the whole _point_ is talking to atheists, no one wants to talk to an atheist. As far as I can tell, this stuff is like so much else in theism, just about making their fellow believers feel good. Even in the comments where Christians are agreeing how important it is to talk to nonbelievers and sharing tips for doing so, it all seems just imaginary. They are _imagining_ talking to atheists, because they don't seem to be brave enough to do that in reality. Well, maybe if it's their own kid or something. I suppose it's different then, huh?

[@terrycuyler5659]

I'd like to start a not church were everyone meets on Saturday afternoon and talks science, math, technology, sports, fishing etc..

[@ziploc2000]

I can't help thinking when he talks about the lost he means the lost revenue. If people do their godding outside church, he doesn't get a cut of the take. No reason people can't do their godding elsewhere if they want to, unless god needs churches as some kind of worship battery and needs large groups to start the worship generator.

[@gheinrichs1]

Surprise. Pastor Vernon Fosner of Seattle, the pastor of the church that this pastor mentioned was losing members, is founder and director of a new program which this pastor is following. Here is the web description: The Dinner Church Collective Is A Nation-Wide Community Of Mealtime Missionaries Spreading The Word About A Simple, Effective And Historical Approach To Starting New Forms Of Church.

[@shriggs55]

The only ones that were supposed to carry out the "great commission"were the ones that Jesus spoke to directly at that time--the disciples.Certainly not 21st century believers.

[@frijofroisdeern3783]

I am so humble that in all my analogies I - the Believer - will be the stand in for that allmighty flawless God...while you - the non-believer - are the spiteful sinner who needs me even though you don't deserve my Grace. Works for me.

[@nagranoth_]

1:00 no really "sinner" could be seen as a negatively charged term? Do you think maybe telling people they are s8nners and deserve to burn in hell for eternity might have something to do with that? It never ceases to amaze me how apologists are able to show how idiotic their crap is going to be in the sentence, without even intending to...

[@deliriousmysterium8137]

I was best friends with an alcoholic and I went to a meeting with him to support him and they ate me alive with their words like I was a sacrifice he brought in for the cause. It was so awful.

[@darrylelam256]

"My church is failing and it can't be my fault so I need to find something to blame." The current form of the church has existed for a long time. It's 'worked' for a long time. Its not working now because information is available like never before. Church worked for so long because it was how people got information for so long. Church was a meeting point where people exchanged information and not just the 'information' that the church claimed to have. But now we have so many other forms of exchanged information and we can fact check that information. The church isn't going to bring their numbers up by eating with people, because the 'information' is wrong and we don't have to blindly take what they say as the truth.

[@angeliparraguirre7329]

Facts dude. This has happened with all sorts of things like bad ideas or untrue views of the world.

[@008-._79]

Do not follow the man,follow jesus God bless

[@Vinny_Havoc]

I like the new masked look, with the staticy goggles.

[@WCM1945]

This preacher wants to make his church more "entertaining"? And here I thought it was about worshiping. Tha last time I attended a church service with relatives, I was appalled at the *_APPLAUSE_* after each of the polished "Christian rock" number. I was already an atheist, but this confirmed one reason why I began to doubt religion to begin with.

[@rudra62]

Yeah. Some years back somebody convinced me to go to a particular Baptist church. It seemed to have the atmosphere of a concert.

[@WCM1945]

@@rudra62 It has become show biz.

[@P_Mann]

It seems he doesn’t see “lost people” as people at all. Pretty basic tribal vilification.

[@silvertail7131]

I was led along to church for my first, couple decades. Believed all I was told. Boring of course, but I'd sing with passion for the creator. But, then I heard a more compelling explaination for how life came to be. Without a creation, why would there be a creator god, and the religious sweater fell apart the closer I scrutinized it. After that I only attended church for social reasons, and avoided it where possible. Because I'm too honest to pay lipservice. Well, that and the, reaction they give to those who start thinking during sermons, and asking questions

[@silvercatshadow]

Thanks Zod. That final thing you said is going to live in my important quotes notepad on my phone forever/for the duration of my phone’s life. It’s something I WANT TO TELL MY OWN FUNDAMENTALIST PARENTS but thanks to therapy… I finally am realizing what I knew the whole time: I can’t change them because they don’t think they need to change, don’t see anything wrong with their lives.

[@ShikataGaNai100]

Well, this former seminarian and atheist doesn't want to go to church for two reasons: 1. I don't believe in God.; 2. I don't want to sit in a room full of delusional psychopaths who do.

[@ianmacfarlane1241]

Imagine going to someone's home for a meal and they start talking about God at the dinner table.... "Can I have this to go?"