Achilles and Patroclus Translate Well From Myth | Hades || Inspiration Adoration

These shorts on Tiktok: / delusional_poet
Welcome to Inspiration Adoration, a series of shorts introducing a character, setting, or another aspect of a story I love and have been inspired by. Perhaps this will also create some interest in you, and help inspire you for your writing!
This episode features Achilles and Patroclus from the Video Game Hades.
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TWITTER: / delusional_poet
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Music from Hades, by Supergiant Games, composed by Darren Korb.
Track used: Out of Tartarus
#Zagreus #Hades #ZagreusHades #shorts

[@blakerenimu9033]

As someone else pointed out (in a very funny video) Achiles: "I'm moody and gay, lad" Patty: "Hello.... I'm depressed and gay"

[@Doctorrr_]

Crying 😭 Patroclus really was a downer tho, lol xD

[@igorlopesribeiro8781]

I read that on their voices in my head, and, honestly, it worked out waaay too well 💀

[@martinkaufmann294]

what was that video called?

[@fieryapple7020]

They are bisexuals though

[@Doctorrr_]

@@fieryapple7020 still a fun quote, lol

[@jcnot9712]

The original “Historians say they were roommates”

[@azccz1668]

Oh my god, they were roommates!

[@kingofdragons7]

I mean, they were really just friends, not a couple

[@arbuzboi8540]

​@@kingofdragons7 No, not really. While it is not clear, meaning that there is no concrete proof, in all sources it's either not specified or suggested that they were lovers. If not the fact that it was/still is taboo, they would probably be classified as lovers from the beginning, because that is what sources suggests, but because it *is* taboo, there would have to be 100% black on white undeniable proof that they were lovers.

[@kingofdragons7]

@@arbuzboi8540 it's very specified that Achilles and Patroclus shared a bond of philia and Achilles was going to marry his bride prize

[@nicolasbarbosa8270]

​@@arbuzboi8540that's not true at all, just fetishization by the game devs

[@DellVanity]

The game also openly talks about how Achilles has matured over time. He's melancholic but he genuinely is a calmer wiser person for reflecting on his failures and the person he used to be. It's refreshing to me, since it shows even the godly can grow and change (a reflection of the story) and because the time the two spent apart means that there is still room for them to grow together as a pair

[@connorthornberg]

Patroclus also warms up over the game. His initial state is not just depression due to death and loneliness, but also guilt because of Achilles's sacrifice to let him into Elysium, and anger at Achilles for being selfish and making that decision for him. But over time he eventually accepts the decisions that Achilles made and allows himself the pleasure that he doesn't think he deserves by seeing Achilles again.

[@ameliasellers6396]

You know, considering Thanatos is a romance option, I doubt the game would have said Achilles and Patroclus were "just friends". That said, the representation in Hades is fantastic and I am looking forward to what they're going to do in Hades II.

[@remytheassassin]

Well, in ancient Greece, polygamy was really the only relationship status that was truly looked down upon by society as a whole

[@furyberserk]

​@@remytheassassin Homosexuality was also frowned upon. It was fine for the gods. Male and female gods could give birth and be pregnant.

[@soneca_br]

​@@furyberserk Loving another man, having him as your soulmate, was perfectly acceptable among greeks. If anything it was more honorable as they saw women as lesser creatures. The real problem for the greeks was being the passive one in a sexual relationship.

[@ahvin4764]

​@@soneca_br you've just pointed out the problem. The "bottom" in a homosexual relationship is looked down upon as lesser, which is a relationship that demeans one party. That isn't what we know as a modern gay relationship.

[@soneca_br]

@@ahvin4764 I mean, not really all mlm modern relationships have a bottom. But ancient greek's had different conceptions of relationships and tabboos around them than we do. So you can't really say a character like achilles was gay, bi or even straight because they weren't thinking on those terms. Some greeks thought of them as lovers, to others it was strictly platonic.

[@nikki607]

The true ending involves the protagonist in a polyamorous relationship with a woman and a man. Hades ain't afraid of no bigots😂

[@dracosfire7247]

Technically Zagreus’ doesn’t need to date anyone to get the true ending, you can turn them both down.

[@nikki607]

@dracosfire7247 the only place where the story can "diverge" is on dating choices. And turning either of them down qualifies as a bad ending in the parameters of the game

[@dracosfire7247]

@@nikki607 What? No it doesn't. That might be personal preference, but the game itself doesn't consider it a bad ending

[@Sina-dv1eg]

​@@nikki607What parameters?

[@nathanbrown7906]

Zagures, God of blood and counseling

[@Doctorrr_]

Literally love how they characterize these two in the game 😭 And I'm so glad we get to see the ruins of their relationship, to them building it back up, from being afraid to see each other to being happy again. And it's so sad when Achilles hints at his sadness and regret for what happened to Pat

[@percyross7612]

Literally opposite of the bury your gays trope. The gays start off already dead and rebuild their relationship.

[@Drekromancer]

@@percyross7612 Incredibly based approach imo

[@glitteringdystop1a]

I discovered Song of Achilles in the midst of my playthrough and now I’m working to reunite them in death… so tragic and so beautiful

[@wyletwo]

Reading Song of Achilles before getting into Hades definitely shaped how I played that game lol

[@W1LL1AM_SOLACE]

@@wyletwofr

[@spoontheguy5397]

I also love how this game doesn’t stray from this fact: Both Patroclus and Achilles were formidable warriors. Almost all of the Acheans (Greek soldiers) were. Don’t let the internet make you think that Patroclus was a softboi and widdle guy who needed to be avenged by his boyfriend because it took Hector, the deadly Warrior Prince of Troy, to put him down

[@thebaseandtriflingcreature174]

oh you're right. Patroclus must've been insane on the battlefield if he could've been a convincing Achilles

[@OMG_TheFrogs]

Nothing made me happier than when I reunited them. I’m pretty sure I even cried. Seeing Patroclus go form always sitting and moping to always standing made me so happy as well

[@Midorikonokami]

"Hades does not shy from saying they are lovers which is refreshing because -" *Historians have entered the chat*

[@madmanarrivednow]

I liked this. Only one thing to add to it. Homer didn't specify their relationship, not saying he was hinting on it. Aeschylus did specify it. And Plato was all in, because he was a big fan of the many layers of love. Also he was misogynistic... and a wrestler. Granted, I need to dust off my knowledge of Homeric tradition. But I liked the side story. Thet's why I thought that the narrator was not Homer, but Aeschylus. His Myrmidons was fragmented. So this is a nice way of filling in the missing parts :D

[@DelusionalPoet]

Ahh, should've done more fact-checking then :P Thanks for the trivia, though! I'm pretty sure I won't be the only person that'll appreciate it!

[@madmanarrivednow]

@@DelusionalPoet Ooo don't sell yourself short. You just pointed out "in the Iliad" there are so many recounts of the Iliad before and after Homer, it is baffling. At minimum they were "close". And even the "nephew" translation is correct in a way, since that didn't have to mean blood relation. Granted it should've been translated as "ward". Homer hinted on the serious closeness with the fact Patroclos went out to fight, in his armor. Didn't want to take away his glory, plus wanted to uphold the morale that Achilles meant for the myrmidons. He let him, for the lack of better words, sulk. These two are legendary for their own reasons, and while I like any and every portrayal of their relationship (have a close friend, like Patroclus and the world is yours to conquer, for love as in eros is fleeting, but love as in filia or love as agapé is unwavering), my favorite was always Odysseus, and I almost thought Skelly is him.

[@Midorikonokami]

The thing is, would you need to describe the entire process of using the underground or a phone in a book nowadays, step by step? No, right? It would be tedious because it's commonly knowledge, like riding a cab in Victorian time, or the marriage mart in Jane Austen's time, as well as maritime adventures in Elizabethan and regency England. That's what's going on here: it is so obvious for the contemporary readers/listeners that there is no need to say it. But if you learn and study the literary convention of the contemporary texts, you know. But the Historians are too powerful so we all work at anything but in libraries on ancient texts these days (jk AI came after our jobs first)

[@anonymoususer3477]

This is actually rather interesting seeing how its confirmed that the narrator in Hades 2 is infact Homer

[@o0bookwyrmknight0o]

Very cool of them to show this in the game!

[@toustikcz640]

Theres a reason this is my favourite game.

[@alexgilmore5941]

Legends say they were very close friends.

[@spikeyferret8613]

My one problem though is Patroclus was a hero he would've been in Elysium with of without Achilles's deal however it is a clever way to continue their story

[@TrueYellowDart]

Ah, this is the comment I was looking to not repeat. Yeah, Pat totally deserves Elysium in his own right but the storytelling choice of him being there due to Achilles is used very well.

[@MarceloSilva-oq8mk]

Although the part of them being lovers is a bit gray in the Iliad, it is still refreshing to see Hades being this open with this topic.

[@Midorikonokami]

Lads!! I found a historian! :p

[@MarceloSilva-oq8mk]

@@Midorikonokami🍷 🤓☝️

[@Midorikonokami]

@@MarceloSilva-oq8mk it was a joke 🤣

[@MarceloSilva-oq8mk]

@@Midorikonokami 🍷😔☝️

[@trevordillon1921]

It’s also curious how in popular culture, Patroclus is often excluded or left out. Like, if you asked someone how achilles died, they’d probably make no men of him, but they’d probably know the whole bit about the heel and the arrow. But his thematic purpose in the story is not a cautionary tale on hubris, but on rage and vengeance. He gave in to his emotions, which led him to make mistakes that ultimately cost him his life.

[@ThyFloorestFloor]

I'm sad I haven't found Patroclus more often, I rarely find anything but battle floors when exploring Elysium.

[@TheMrrccava]

Tbh i didnt know so many people DIDNT interpret their relationship in myth as lovers. Makes me happy to he a history student

[@jager477]

Historian: “Here we see two Greek friends hanging out on the bed.” Customer: “What are they doing on the bed?” Historian: “You know… Just ‘hanging out’. “ “Customer: “Are you sure they aren’t just gay?” Historian: “YesYesyes, they’re just friends.” (Looks back at the very gay painting) Historian: “VERY GOOD FRIENDS.”

[@Cpruett]

what is more saddened is that you and the rest of the culture is so warped you can't see two people on a bed benignly anymore. Be the freak you are but stop trying to force everyone else to accept your reality. Feel free to reject reality just don't expect others to accept your substitution because you freaks need to see yourself everywhere or I dunno have a panic attack.

[@allenwalker957]

Damn, I am watching this playthrough, and seeing Mia's reaction in hindsight makes soooooo much more sense. God I love this serie. Also love the voice acting. Cant wait to see how it progresses from there.

[@Cha0s009]

It’s a Greek game. Ya GOTTA admit to it

[@thewishy23]

Just wanted to point something out Patroclus die while pretending to be Achilles but person given the character design in game I think I can tell who is who

[@MelvaCross]

The myth did not state that they were lovers. Romantic love didn't have the same standing back then. They weren't "just" friends. They shared the strongest bond of love that ancient Greeks knew: friendship. I like that in modern interpretations, their bond is portrayed as romantic. We place a much higher importance on romantic love than the ancient Greeks did. To still describe their love as love between friends would not get the intended point across. So, to best describe how powerful their bond was, it is a good idea to deviate from the original Iliad and change their bond to romantic love. That doesn't change the fact, though, that they weren't described as lovers in the Iliad. Because in ancient Greece, they weren't "just" lovers, they shared the much more powerful bond of friendship.

[@DanLanDan4425]

For anyone who wants to read their story in fiction, read Song of Achilles

[@DelusionalPoet]

I love that novel, +1 on that recommendation!

[@DanLanDan4425]

@@DelusionalPoet Based. That book send me to tears

[@AlexFoxken]

is it just me or in the beginning .. you can see Patroclus's Onions and carrot

[@phasepanther4423]

Why does this song scream Doom at me?

[@just_a_hampa]

That's GAY. very cute.

[@pianissimo7121]

The reason it is not considered woke or whatever is simply because of how it was presented. They loved each other, that's it, as simple as that. It wasn't any different to normal romance, just because they were gay. Hades game never tried to overly remind us they are gay, infact it never even brought the topic up.

[@madmanarrivednow]

Wouldn't fit the Greek definition of love, to specify the gender. Even if it's not as obvious as the game tells us, greeks really had at least 7 words for a relationship that is stronger than just mutual knowledge regardless of gender. That is respectable, which is sadly balanced by considering women as second rate citizens and children being only on the level of servants until they became heirs (hence Hades calling Zagreus "BOY" and not by his name initially, or a s SON).

[@pianissimo7121]

@@madmanarrivednow i read about greek love defination recently. Ya it's pretty cool, but we all know history is really bad and philosophy was only for the rich and wealthy.

[@madmanarrivednow]

@@pianissimo7121 That... is not wrong. While everybody could have their own thoughts about existence, you can be damn sure only the privileged had the means to have a voice to tell it. On the other hand, you forget about Diogenes and the cynics. They were intentionally poor as eff. Diogenes had a view about his death, that still makes me laugh. He told everyone to let his corpse feed the dogs. When people told him that is not proper and it needs dignity, he said something like: okay, deal. Give my corpse a stick to shoo off the dogs if it wants it's dignity.

[@pianissimo7121]

@@madmanarrivednow haha is an amazing story. I too don't understand funerals and such. Sure is someone sacrificed himself saving people or something great, funerals will give moral boost to the community. But if I die, i wouldn't want my kin to waste money on meaningless traditions.

[@madmanarrivednow]

@@pianissimo7121Funerals are for them, not for you. The only thing you can do is cutting the funeral funds. But on a more serious note: let them have their time of remembrance, but before that make sure their remembrance is not grief sorrow and anger, but a happy farewell. And you are right. Meaningless traditions shouldn't be upheld. And the ones that are meaningful are invaluable.

[@trobitman]

In hades 2 we have Goddess x Spider.

[@Sero4U]

God x gorgon

[@futurecar6750]

Can you be my Achilles? My king

[@Guillimann]

Only problem for me is they don’t look alike in game, which is weird because Patroclus died pretending he was Achilles

[@kyrab7914]

He did yoink his armor. I guess having Patroclus be dark skinned and Achilles v not is a bit out there bc I THINK arms and legs would be seen. But iirc the explanation I've seen is you didn't really know faces in those days bc the armor would cover it

[@TheUsedDecoy]

Eh it's not like everyone knew what everyone else looked like back then, portraits in ancient Greek weren't exactly known for realism(sculpture though, yeah pretty well but they weren't used as portraiture) and were expensive. People could proclaim to be p much anyone if so long as you could back it up.

[@Guillimann]

But Hector had seen Achilles, yes? Not sure, but I think so

[@TheUsedDecoy]

@@Guillimann well I gotta tell you that I'm not sure either lol

[@Guillimann]

Guees my head canon for now is Hector knew Achilles only by reputation, so when he saw the troops shouting his name he killed Pattie!

[@nestorasbitos3623]

They are step brothers, since Achilles' father, Peleus, adopted him and he was raised alongside Achilles.

[@hoodies7244]

What, they were brothers, weren't they?

[@Zeno11Salazar]

Real history: "The two have clearly had many nights of passion in the same bed and tent." Modern history books: "Oh my God, they were roommates! Or uncle and nephew!"

[@yoyo777]

You mean roomates?

[@morp4212]

Oh my god they were roommates

[@abels9902]

Bro I thought they were brothers😅

[@misscrimson3555]

I'm still genuily surprised that there doesn't seem to be much biggots going: "Huuuurgh ! Hades is so woke and stoopid and woke ! Video games have been ruined once more !". I'm not complaining, I'm just surprised, especially knowing how inclusive this game is.

[@Fullmetalnyuu0]

Yeah, they're only just now getting around to it because it ties into the current culture war bs in the vaguest possible sense

[@Cpruett]

I find it even more hilarious watching morons like you learn "history" from a video game and think you can tell those that actually studied it their wrong. Feel free to flatten relationships to fucking/ not fucking but these two were not gay sorry.

[@thebaseandtriflingcreature174]

don't imagine them getting too far in the game 😂

[@derpfluidvariant0916]

Nah. The game is actually good on top of being woke. Same reason those people don't bash borderlands 2, despite it being similarly progressive in its depictions. Game companies tried to use "oh we have gay characters" as a marketing ploy to try and offset the fact that the games were getting more and more microtransaction heavy and substance light. BioShock was also very politically driven, but is also remembered well because it's an actually good game. MGRR was hated at launch because of how it handled the subjects in game, but as time passed people grew to appreciate its hamminess and meme potential. The misattribution of bad game design to wokeness has become increasingly obvious in recent years, as the distinctions between good and bad games don't line up with political messages in those games as well as they used to. It's part of why the Anti-SJW crowd has generally lost support even from people who would normally support it: it stopped attacking bad games, the companies who relied on it most have terrible reputations, and increases quantity of games that had good representation that was naturally written disillusioned many to the culture war that had taken place.

[@TabbuEme]

I'm usually on the anti-woke side and Hades does it with people's races being all over the place, but the game is good and doesn't beat you over the head with the woke messaging. I feel like the problem isn't inclusivity or diversity, it's that it's implemented with little regard for the actual story and the actual characters. Plenty of woke characters are simply unlikeable or have 0 reason to exist and some characters are made gay for 0 reason and they go "They're gay, deal with it", I don't care if a character is gay or not, that's just not what I look for in a story.

[@bilibiliacc]

What game is this? Where can I download or get it??? Pleeaaasseee I need answerrsss

[@DelusionalPoet]

Hades, it's on Steam!

[@bilibiliacc]

@@DelusionalPoet Ohh okay thank you! ^^

[@knowtounderstand]

What game is this??

[@DelusionalPoet]

Hades!

[@julianezequiel9371]

Patroclos and Aquilles were what we call now gay, and that was normal af The olimpians would laypipe on anything that moves (even animals) same with viking and egiptian gods Because egipt is what they apopiate they mitology (just read about Ra/Amón Ra and helios and prometeus, even the wolflike god and charon) In high society in greek rhe purest form of love was among mans, also was usual to have what is caled now poliamorous relations of course tjing chabged when rome turned to catholicism and tried to wipe the entire mytology of over 2milenium

[@enriquegarcia2790]

Allegedly Achilles was so beautiful that he was hiding in a harem of princesses to avoid going to something or other and the only reason he was found out was cause his cousin snitched on him, either he was straight up a femboy or Greek woman are masculine to very not suitable for Hollywood (or any visual art representation) degree.

[@darkschneider6221]

I'm curious, what makes their romance one of the best?

[@rubyred186]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqarm4aemNeNg5Ysi=1Qi5H1YfH3f5ozrm Due to this. Honestly cried.

[@DrCaesarMD]

Late reply, but its a great story portraying a classic tragedy through the lens of something generally considered a positive thing: love, but gone too far. The love these two had for each other was great, and intense, and so when one dies, the others overflowing grief from the loss of this love causes them to go on a bloody rampage only to them die themself. The greeks loved to portray the consequences of allowing benevolent impulses to go out of control or unchecked.

[@majinfreecell]

The headcannon is reaching new levels...

[@torbenfranke1859]

Well, I don't care much for Wether they are plugging butts or not. I just think it's going a bit far to just straight up say that in all accounts they are gay. There are some records that state one and others do not, either wich way, the point was never what sort of love they shared, but the folley of Man and what their emotions lead them to.

[@user-mu8dm4rk7g]

One of the best romances in myth? Maybe. One of the best romances in gaming? Hell fuсkin no.

[@argy7526]

it wasnt even a romance in the myths its still debated to this day if they were gay or not

[@johnathan1506]

I have no problem with the game portraying them as lovers but in real life they were like brothers or best friends. To anyone who says they were lovers i have a quote for you: "Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend." C.S Lewis

[@mreow8721]

cool story but it doesnt apply here

[@johnathan1506]

@@mreow8721 Yeah... It's like the first thing i said.

[@loranga]

​@@johnathan1506then why bring it up

[@johnathan1506]

@@loranga it is important that people don't start seeing their essentialy headcanons as actual history. People get really defensive about it even tho it's proven not to be true, seemingly cause they view it as a personal attack. It's not. It's just history. Queer people such as me and others are worthy of respect and love but not at the cost of literal history. We dont have to rewrite history in order to be seen because we already have our own. That just makes us look like an insane cult.

[@guibeck8259]

Achilles' grief absolutely came from a place deeper than friendship. If it all came down to some brotherly link or friendship I doubt he'd desecrate Hector's bodies over days. Achilles was self destructive, like a lot of broken heart lovers you see around. Personally I don't think they were a gay couple, since the Iliad straight up says Patroclus was about to get married

[@satyrro3877]

Well the game is just doing its job, Patroclos and Achilleus were not lovers, its just mentioned in the ancient times that they were "erastes", which is s greek word, but erastes in Modern Greek means "lover" while in Ancient Greek erastes means "soulmate" much like the best among your best friends, i do admit that it did mean "lover" sometimes too, but not in this case.

[@finchii9161]

achilles and patroclus, in plato’s symposium (which uses the language of eromenos and erastes in the context of their relationship) explicitly describes achilles and patroclus as lovers. they weren’t just ‘best friends’

[@ProfX501]

‘Erastes’ did not mean ‘soulmate’… It had very a specific definition relating to pedarastic (i.e. homoerotic) relationships. Multiple ancient Greek sources were unambiguous about Achilles and Patroclus being lovers.

[@valiensr1037]

Yeah, because I’d definitely ask to have my ashes interred in the same urn as my totally platonic friend. Definitely a straight, non romantic thing to do 🙄

[@archeogeek315]

@@valiensr1037It’s kind of sexist to believe a man from Ancient Greek couldn’t have a friendship so deep with someone else that they would want to be with them forever. The idea that you have to be romantically close to someone to feel this extreme attachment is unfortunately still a common misconception.

[@MyMy-mg5yv]

@@valiensr1037 that depends on whose standards you’re basing it on. Yours? Or the ancient Greeks? We have modern cultures where two men holding hands isn’t considered romantic but a man and a women holding hands is taboo. Love was such an important part of Ancient Greek society that they created multiple words for different types of it (and those meanings do change over time). I wouldn’t be surprised if they also viewed platonic soulmates as a thing 🤷🏾‍♀️ Btw idc about them being gay in the game but it’s really a grey area in the source material for me 👍🏾 Sorry for the long response, just tired of this convo about their relationship 😅

[@Wubbaduckie]

Thats kinda gay

[@weichiang89]

Aren't they supposed to be cousins? Or did Brad Pitt spoil me too much?

[@thebaseandtriflingcreature174]

yes.

[@mangoislife.]

Why gay?

[@tusk9687]

why not?

[@morp4212]

Ask Achilles and Patroclus

[@coldfrost5]

I thought achilles were bisexual

[@loranga]

because ancient greece

[@Cpruett]

Because internet freaks and morons that play fictional games and read fictional books need to see the world in their twisted fucking/ not fucking binary with no actual relational depth because they are narcissist that can't accept anything they haven't experienced.

[@alithegreat1815]

They're lovers??? In the Iranian dubbed version they're portrayed as cousins 😒

[@sono_chi_no_sodium_chlorid7635]

Yo why is a greek black?

[@helloworlditskiwi]

While there were dark skinned or "tanned" greeks, it was probably just a 21st century design choice, and with all the retellings of the Iliad over thousands of centuries, I promise you this isn't the first "race swap" the story has seen :) The characters are still just as compelling even in a new light but yeah- hope that helped

[@vicenteisaaclopezvaldez2450]

Why is everyone wearing leggings? Hades doesn't pretend to be an accurate depiction of ancient Greek aesthetics, it's highly impressionistic in it's artistic philosophy, and modified to fit our modern culture. It's more Greek-inspired American than ancient Greek, more congress building than Parthenon. It's something we have to be aware of: We can't truly make an accurate reconstruction of something when we're not even that informed or connected to it, we breathe our sensibilities into everything we create, for example: I made a redesign for Zagreus once, in a small contest, and I gave him flaming scars through his whole body and a charred face covered by a golden mask: He didn't even have a nose, way more Mexican than Greek on the rejection of beauty as goodness alone, way more damaged than any Greek god would ever be, but pretty standard for an Aztec god, I just couldn't help but place a bit of me into something that wasn't mine, that's all that's happening here.

[@NieroshaiTheSable]

Because Nubian characters show up in Greek myth so often it isn't always worth mention. And the Greeks never seemed upset by it like 20th century supposed-Anglo-Saxons tend to be. There was those who held allegiance to Greece, and Barbarians. And a Barbarian could become Greek, and a Greek a Barbarian.

[@julianezequiel9371]

There were Blacks and turkish even egiptians Warriors/people un greek and roman empire They werent white noone near mediterranean zones were Usually brown/light Brown/tanned That assumption Is due to modern europeans

[@sono_chi_no_sodium_chlorid7635]

@@julianezequiel9371 Found the american

[@jujoya]

Is not like "the game should be afraid" to say that, but is historically incorrect. Very ESG to make macho warriors gay, but at least they aren't feminine tho

[@Sam-bm6yf]

Thats actually not true! Achllices supposedly had his ASHES mixed with partclous! They were 100% in love maybe not gay because greece thought of it differently but definitely in love

[@feistsorcerer2251]

You've definitely got some stereotypes to grow past. There are plenty of gay guys around today who are very masculine, so why wouldn't that be possible in the past? Same with gay warriors. Do you think the U.S. army would have had the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy if there were no gay soldiers? As for specifically Greek stuff, Achilles and Patroclus being lovers is a very common interpretation of things, though they both would have been bi by modern standards, not gay, because both also had interest in women. As for at the time "Gay" isn't really a thing when it comes to ancient Greeks. They had a different way of viewing sexuality than we do. That aside, romantic and sexual relationships between men were very common, including among warriors. Look up the Sacred Band of Thebes for a prime example. Many mythological figures were portrayed as having male lovers as well including gods and warriors. Apollo and Poseidon both had male lovers, and in several versions of the myth of Heracles he has one as well. I don't know where you've been learning your Greek history to be able to avoid just how prevalent stuff between guys was, including some really messed up traditions, but you need to broaden your learning before making claims of historical inaccuracies.

[@victoriapulcifer6218]

You're right, historically speaking, maybe they're not lovers in the same way Sam wise and Frollo weren't lovers. But like, cmon. They're definitely QPR

[@umutgumusluoglu3175]

arent they are brothers or cousins?

[@morphiousm]

I think you’re confused about Achilles relationship with Patroclus. Achilles was in love with a woman named Briseis. The reason why Patroclus fought in Achilles stead was because Achilles refused to fight since Agamemnon stole briseis from Achilles.

[@asiancanadian1584]

you're truly delusional if you think this sidestory relationship is one of the best in gaming

[@MiriamBordeaux]

wich is better

[@gar2yc]

The lisp comes as a bonus i guess.