Advanced Tactical Fighter Program | YF-23 Vs F-22 Raptor DOGFIGHT | Digital Combat Simulator | DCS |

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On this channel we like to do a lot of dogfighting most videos are some sort of dogfight between 2 different aircraft as we explore their different capabilities. From time to time I like to dabble in Virtual Reality, I think VR is a great new technology and I love to show that stuff off for the channel from time to time.
If you enjoy war thunder or Microsoft flight simulator 2020 or even dogfighting in Battlefield 2042, consider getting yourself into Digital Combat Simulator by Eagle Dynamics, the Combat side of Aviation with the BVR and Dogfights really provides a different and interesting perspective on aviation. You can fly all kinds of combat aircraft including the F-16, F-15, F-14, JF-17, Su-27, Mig-29, Mirage and the F-18 Hornet along with many other aircraft and helicopters like the Ka-50 and Mi-8.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Check out the Merch Store: growling-sidewinder.creator-spring.com/ Thank you guys for watching and if you have any ideas for future videos please put them in the comment section below and they might just end up in the pipeline, thanks again, much Love.

[@Mav09]

F/A-18E/F vs F-35C (Fox-2 fight) would be epic to see! Navy vs Navy : Old vs New Day 4

[@Mav09]

Great fight!

[@joeclaridy]

Can you do the reverse and dogfight the F-22 with the YF-23?

[@emp2312]

I want you to pilot the YF-23! That will give us a baseline of what it can do!

[@1slotmech]

GS., heads up - you'll need to fix this video's title, you have it as 22A as YF22. 😂 Can we get YF23 vs Rafael or Eurofighter at some point? That might be interesting...

[@jasonvick55]

Ya gotta give it to the pilot, that second fight kill by the 23 was freakin dope.

[@1mikesofocused42]

That was crazy

[@jasonvick55]

@@1mikesofocused42 artistry.

[@cosmocart2]

i love everything that happened in this video, i could tell what they were doing and why they were doing it which is a first for me, except for that 2nd kill where it looked like he did an upside down cobra or something im still confused lol

[@jasonvick55]

@@cosmocart2 seriously! That shit was like ballet.

[@rkjg94]

quite the move, almost stalled

[@ghostgaming25771]

Now put the YF-23 up against the SU-57 felon!

[@andrewrogers3067]

YES

[@F23GreyGhost]

I've been asking for this fight for a lil bit 🤘

[@spooderkid6760]

that would be an epic dogfight

[@tonik2229]

yes!!

[@alireyes8211]

Good news everybody. GS already made this video. GS is flying the SU with a buddy, vs two in YF’s. It was a really good fight.

[@raa2640]

The YF-23 I swear has the side profile of a piece of paper!

[@904_noah]

It's so paper thin, like the F-20 Tigershark

[@bruhhhhmoment4848]

@@904_noahthe f5 is pretty thin

[@jpjay1584]

cough, cough.. of a Katana

[@macross25]

I'd actually like to see a YF-23 vs. SU-47 match up, this way we get a sort of real-life MACROSS PLUS dogfight of the YF-19 vs. YF-21 scenario.

[@katherineberger6329]

This IS the Macross Plus scenario. Macross Plus was inspired by the Advanced Tactical Fighter ("Advanced Variable Fighter") competition.

[@macross25]

@@katherineberger6329 I've been watching Macross since 1984, I know this and it's why I mentioned Mac Plus. I suggested the SU-47 because we'd have a forward swept-wing aircraft against the YF-23. (And you are correct, the ATF program was a huge influence on Kawamori.)

[@traviswalker8933]

​@@macross25forward swept wing* many aircraft have swept wings.

[@drakkon_sol]

Breaker is giving you a good run. He seems to be a TOXIC or ANVIL level pilot, the guys that usually give you the most challenge. More videos of you in the YF23 would be amazing. Especially if you do the same mission types that you normally do with the 22.

[@HereticsRight]

I was going to say the same thing about Breaker, he definitely fits into the pantheon with Toxic and Anvil.

[@traviswalker8933]

YF-23 doesn't have a proper cockpit and GS doesn't use mods that aren't properly developed.

[@monke2676]

wdym toxic / anvil?

[@jozomrkva]

And where is Shotgun, the legend with F22 FCS off?

[@christophejergales7852]

​@@monke2676those are names of other pilots he flies against.

[@TheEaglePilot]

Nerd: (in the voice) “🤓 um sir the plane is called the YF-23”

[@tristanfarms]

I was about to say the same thing

[@clifjr954]

*Pushes glasses up on nose

[@Iceman_.-]

Geeky snorting noises ☝️🤓

[@ExtremeUnction1988]

He’ll catch it

[@Wk-is8eh]

Ackchyually 🤓

[@ske00]

More YF-23 stuff please. I'd also like to see it in some of those scenarios you play as the F-22 pilot.

[@traviswalker8933]

He already did a video like that.

[@v8makoshark]

The black widow is slick and sexy. We need you, G/S to gun fight in it next time against the raptor.

[@traviswalker8933]

I believe this was already discussed to death in the last video. The YF-23 doesn't have the proper cockpit model in it.

[@v8makoshark]

@@traviswalker8933 Yeah, but BR3AK3R7 did alright anyways !

[@srthebox4946]

Gs doesnt use modded aircraft without cockpits even if it’s fine, he wants a high standard of quality for his videos and that includes having a proper cockpit.

[@traviswalker8933]

@@srthebox4946 there is a cockpit in it. It's just not the correct one. The YF-23 had a cockpit based on the F-15E's cockpit.

[@Kismetix]

Man I love this channel...have to say both pilots did an expert job, and that 2nd fight kill by the 23 was an astounding bit of flying.

[@Vespuchian]

A fight between the prototype YF-22 and production F-22 would be fun to see, since it was brought up in the -typo- title, just to see if there are substantive differences between the two.

[@traviswalker8933]

YF-22 doesn't exist in DCS. Also the title says F-22.

[@fightingcorsair7297]

It's so great to watch those two aircraft dance.

[@kingscorpion7346]

"Oh, what's this? What's happening?" 💥 😁

[@Catfoolyou]

I'm getting PTSD from that one video where the YF-23 completely shredded the F-22 in a BVR fight.

[@andrewrogers3067]

What vid?

[@bahe57]

​@@andrewrogers3067 it's a old video

[@traviswalker8933]

​@@andrewrogers3067 he made a BVR video about the YF-23 vs F-22 and the F-22 got smoked by the YF-23.

[@straitouttahell]

@@traviswalker8933 the exact words were "it feels like being killed by a ghost" 😁

[@dystopianlucidity4448]

Once a raptor has your six, you’re dead, it’s just buffering.

[@lukecreamer8426]

4:48 I'm not any sort of good at DCS, but I've payed enough attention in 3 years of watching GS videos religiously that I know the mistake here from GS was dropping the nose too much, that put him defensive in 3 seconds flat. Any supermaneuverable aircraft will be able to get nose on if you're both slow and you move under it.

[@entityeoe2285]

Honestly watching these two fight is like a Samurai trying to cut a falling flower petal on a gusty day.

[@icaleinns6233]

Spider vs. Felon? Oh HELL yeah!

[@johns1625]

I think the YF-23 should have been named the Manta Ray rather than Black Widow. I love the diamond profile of it's wings so much!

[@kToTheLToTheE]

The YF-23 is effing beautiful

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

You missed the chance to say _the YF-23 is Y-effing beautiful_

[@tyronnezx]

I agree!

[@m3dicated]

Yes, I would like to see a dogfight between F22 and SU57

[@joshuaammerman7830]

Ah yes the YF22 vs the F22... (insert spiderman meme.)

[@BigJonBurch]

So funny that the government was like, “we haven’t had a dogfight in YEARS. Let’s take the better dog fighter instead of the faster, stealthier, option

[@jeffreychandler8418]

** NGAD patiently waiting **

[@thedishonoredamerican129]

The program was started in the 80s...

[@ImBrockatron]

Maybe quicker but not faster

[@501stIstheBestRegiment]

I think they were annoyed a bit into it by the reformers

[@knightzing]

USAF doctrine changed from interceptors to maneuverability fighters. (Even though both aircraft are good maneuvering planes) Stealth difference was marginal and I would prefer being able to quickly kill then egress if BVR wasn’t enough. (which both can but one does better)

[@alphazuluz]

I don’t know that the YF-23 was actually faster than the YF-22. There’s a long presentation on KZbin by one of the test pilots for the YF-23 program. He posted the specs for each of the four planes (YF-22 with P&W engines, YF-22 with GE engines, then the two YF-23s with the two different engines). Here are the specs he listed for “maximum Mach”: YF-22 GE: >2.00 YF-22 PW: 1.81 YF-23 GE: 1.72 YF-23 PW: 1.8 Maybe they didn’t push them to the limits, but it sure sounded like they did. He even made note of how it was odd that the different engine brands were better in different planes. The GE performed better in the 22, and the P&W did better in the 23. I’ve always heard that the YF-23 was faster, but this YF-23 pilot said the opposite.

[@emp2312]

Love it keep the YF-23 Dogfights coming! Yes!

[@XTXImperator]

What a magnificent monster the YF-23 is! Able to tie with a Raptor is no small feat despite being supposedly less maneuverable. Great flying by Br3aker7 and you btw! YF-23 VS SU-57? Yes please!

[@GeneralThunderbolt]

The YF-23 was ahead of its time. Better range, speed and stealth which are all the most desirable traits in modern combat. It's likely the NGAD will have these as the main characteristics.

[@aethertech]

NGAD comes out, IT IS the 23 (with a few tweaks). $5

[@deltasierracharlie]

The Northrop's/McDonell Douglas ATF proposal did NOT offer better speed than the Lockheed/Boeing/General Dynamics ATF proposal. That is one the greatest myths still very much alive regarding the ATF program. And when it comes to stealth BOTH designs met the requirements and had very similar RCS numbers. The planned F-23 being more stealthy than the F-22 is not a given fact. Some journalists at the time of the DEM/VAL phase of the ATF program just assumed and wrote that it must be, pretty much basically because to them it looked like it was lol That was their only "proof". And ever since then those words spread and got twisted more and more and a lot of more and more people started saying and claiming as an undisputed fact when actually it's not that simple. From some angles and against some frequencies the Lockheed/Boeing/General Dynamics ATF design is more stealthy.

[@traviswalker8933]

Doesn't matter. It would have been a showpiece like the F-22 anyway.

[@noyrz]

And it can actually hold things in her belly! Yes, I'm looking at you, Amy

[@AB-nv7bz]

@@deltasierracharlieok but it had way better range. It’s a better plane. If u get in a dogfight you made tremendous errors. Issues with Northrop development of the b2 and old heads in the usaf romanticism over dogfights was the reason the f22 won out

[@StEvEn-dp1ri]

Of course you have to do the SU-57 vs YF-23. Not only a regular guns only fight, but a 9x and BVR.

[@rmp5s]

The 23 looks like a 22 that's a bit melty...like it was left in the sun too long. lol

[@SM-qo9gr]

Round 2: I think he wormed up😂

[@happycanayjian1582]

That was a sweet move at 12:00. 🤟🏼

[@istvanbarta]

Another reason for choosing (Y)F-22 could be the fact the other countries will able to bring more and more capable stealth fighters, therefore the end of the day/era the maneuverability still remains important.

[@Mobius118]

Underrated point

[@Asghaad]

And then high offboresight missiles with 2way datalink made that maneuverability totally useless instead...

[@AB-nv7bz]

Nope. No one is dogfighting. Who sees who first is all that matters. Nagd will be a horrific dogfighter. Guns are worthless and in a decade fox 2s will be gone as well. Long range fox 3s and SiAW is the future. The only point of planes is to get as close as possible without detection to launch a missile. I’m honestly shocked we are investing in manned aircraft.

[@Appletank8]

Stealth doesn't mean close to WVR, just that the BVR is shorter. Sensors are still better than eyeballs even with stealth. Maneuvering is reserved more for dodging missiles than guns.

[@duaneedwards5439]

YF-23 vs anything! What an amazing aircraft, deadly and sexy at the same time.

[@frostedhams]

I kinda wanna see more modern dogfights with Fox2s being used. The multiple rounds was very nice to see with the recent F-18 video.

[@willfultrain6779]

I like how it looks like the two planes just spin in place to turn around. 8:16 like that he's literally sideways, but he's still going in a circle.

[@benn454]

"Falling leaves"

[@khoatran-sv7je]

We gotta have these two working together, imagine a force where the YF23 and F22 would come in first to target high-priority targets, then F35's and F15E come in later to take out the remaining targets. What a force that would be. You really gotta fly the YF23 GS!

[@retr07397]

I’m enjoying your videos man, I learned so much about aviation just from watching your videos! Keep up the amazing work

[@ThatMetalheadMan]

mistaken video name aside,it does make me wonder how the actual YF-22 would do against its production model F-22 version,if that has not been done.

[@sternthomas4218]

Why dont you fly the yf-23 in a video?

[@ascenxt]

Probably the cockpit isnt accurate (most likely f15)

[@benn454]

​@@ascenxtSame reason he doesn't fly the 35

[@erikcourtney1834]

Who cares if it flys like it’s supposed to… public information

[@straitouttahell]

Thank you for this video, I was really looking forward for it. As per the "more maneuverable" talk, they looked pretty evenly matched to me.

[@timsullivan4566]

GS : "Anyway, as I was saying..." [before you were so rudely shot down😉]

[@DoctyrEvil]

I'm surprised the YF-23 didn't force a vertical fight. The TWR on that aircraft is incredibly high, even compared to the F-22.

[@deltasierracharlie]

The T/W ratio on the YF-23 is way higher than that of the F-22 simply because it was a technology demonstrator aircraft not because of something exotic about it. The YF-22 is also way lighter than the F-22. And the planned F-23 would also have been much heavier than the YF-23.

[@Asghaad]

Much lighter airframe with the same exact engines... Of course its twr will be much higher

[@DoctyrEvil]

MY point was more use it or loose it. I guess we saw in the end that both designs at least as understood but DCS, are well matched.

[@kinka16]

rematch f16 vs yf23 with fox 2s !! with you flying the yf23

[@arthurminiear2904]

Really liked this match-up, and would like to see more. And since it's playoff season in hockey and basketball, a best of seven would match-up in that spirit would be cool!

[@Pyreax865]

I’ve been waiting for this video for so long, it’s finally here.

[@8power0]

THAT WAS SICK,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, THERE HAS GOT TO BE MORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Reaper_03-01]

The navalised F-22 angle is correct. David Tussey, who flew A-7Es in the USN, worked in the Pentagon during the ATF competition, and YF-23 was too long to fit onto the existing carrier catapult architecture. The cost overruns with the B-2 Spirit did also play a role.

[@piusg]

Watching that first loss with that great spread across center mass was heartbreaking. I love the YF-23. :(

[@shreddRRR]

Yessss! The tracer bullets are back! Thank you kind sir.

[@razrushitelle]

Umm... YF-23, isn't?

[@icecreamman8163]

yeaaaaaa wdym

[@razrushitelle]

@@icecreamman8163 He just had a mistake, he wrote YF-22 first.

[@icecreamman8163]

oh I get it

[@tehKLN]

Thank you GS! Love the YF-23 content!

[@Geto-Dac]

second kill was dope. hade to see it twice. great move

[@standtallvets5386]

Yes on the YF-23 2nd fight. Great video!!

[@pkmcburroughs]

"What a beautiful aircraft." *saws it in half with a burst*

[@SliceofLife7777]

I read back in the late 80s, that the F22 won the contract for various reasons. But according to Lockheed, the Airforce went with the more conservative design. Back then, I hoped the Northrop bird would clinch a Navy contract, but they went with the Super Hornet. So why did the F35 not get a supercruise engine? I thought the days of pre-supercruise fighter engines were over. We spent a fortune on the ATF program, only to produce a few hundred fighters.

[@robbabcock_]

Very cool battle! The F-22 is Minbari tech but the YF-23 is pure Vorlon!👽⚔🔥

[@TheOriginalCoda]

One person (me) got the reference... 😂

[@richardkrenek985]

I’m finally starting to become capable of calling some of these fights based on what I’m seeing. I appreciate the Tac views and teachings. Thank you GS.

[@1mikesofocused42]

Yf23 is mainly good for stealth and hit em from a distance and not get seen. The f22s is good for hit them without being seen up close and dogfights

[@kittyhawk3831]

I swear, these two birds can trade punches all day long!

[@loading.....9439]

Cant believe how close they get. Imagine shooting it down just to get a face full of shrapnel off your target. Flying directly through a debris field would have a pucker factor in it self.

[@entropy11]

5:30 that was just a really good snapshot as you passed his nose. He couldn't have seen you there below his nose so maybe he just guessed really well.

[@RightWingNutter]

Quite the set of knife fights.

[@christianarrington6492]

Love to see it do one of the behind enemy lines missions and test its stealth in that scenario.

[@MarcioMarsiglia]

Two wonderful birds!!! ALL The best...

[@nacho71ar]

Makes me wonder, if the YF-23 had won the competition... what kind of upgrades would it have received...

[@stevenmorris3181]

Should have made it instead of the 35

[@mintman825]

@@stevenmorris3181 in no universe would this aircraft be better than the F-35 quit glazing Pierre sprey

[@kugelblitzkrieg]

Funnily enough, the “navalized” F-22 (aka the F-22N or Sea Raptor) would’ve needed to have variable-sweep wings like the Tomcat to be adopted. Even though swing-wings are obsolete in modern fighters, having an F-22 with them would’ve been the most BADASS aircraft a military ever produced (the concept art for it proves that).

[@TheGoddamnBacon]

I am curious, where do you find concept art for a swept wing raptor? Can't say that's easy to picture aside from what people theorized the super tomcat would look like.

[@red94mr28]

Why do you think the F-22 would require swept wings? A variant for the USN would have simply incorporated foldable wing tips like the F-35C or F/A-18E/F

[@kugelblitzkrieg]

@@red94mr28 It’s not what _I_ think would be required, it’s specifically what the _Navy_ required on F-22s to adopt it. I’m pretty sure for the Navy, it was less about actually getting the swing wings and moreso about not wanting to adopt the F-22. Gotta remember that the Air Force and Navy kinda hate each other.

[@kugelblitzkrieg]

@@TheGoddamnBacon Look up concept art for the F-22N, NATF-22, or the Sea Raptor. It looks like the lovechild between a Raptor and Tomcat and it’s absolutely beautiful.

[@GatorAaron]

Man, I thought you were tossing a whole Raptor at him in the last round there. Yes for all the YF-23 fights.

[@Stinger522]

It may not be as maneuverable as the Raptor, but the Black Widow held its own very well. And yes, I would love to see a Black Widow Vs. Felon fight.

[@Blackie3107]

Yes… more YF23! I really love it. Can’t wait for the NGAD to be made public.

[@Garian9]

Beautiful sky battles. Would love to see the YF-23 vs SU-57 dogfight. Loved the "What's happening?!" line on the 2nd round.

[@Indarow]

Damn, a 50/50 matchup in this one! That was a badass video. It really is a shame we didn’t get both aircraft.

[@EdD-ym6le]

Waiting for this one , even searched around to see if I had missed it . More YF 23 dogfights .

[@vortexrage3918]

Yes, I've seen reports that the two different YF-23A aircraft were called (prototype air vehicle) PAV-1 (Grey Ghost) with Prat and Whitney YF119 engines (fuselage painted in lighter Charcoal Grey), and PAV-2 (Spider) which had General Electric YF120 engines and a darker grey scheme. Supposedly, the YF-23 Black Widow II also had a max range of 2,796 miles at a ceiling of 65,000 feet (vs. the YF-22 range of about 2000 miles and 50,000+ foot ceiling). I love both ATF aircraft though, and enjoyed both videos you made with them opposing in BVR and dogfighting each other.

[@NoogaiBooga]

Well now i guess we need a tiebreaker

[@ac9871]

Thanks for a great video! Would be great to see the YF-23 fight against Su-57 with you flying the Spider.

[@admiralgrunt2487]

Looks like a dance off “tango with guns”

[@Xihnic]

watching the first dogfight is like watching 2 UFO's floating around each other

[@yosefwaisman7188]

New viewer here and your videos and explanations of BFM is awesome to watch! Would love to see a dogfight in terrible weather conditions to spice things up as a potential video idea for the future, keep up the awesome work!

[@TheMike599]

Hey, where's your Wingman? How about some 2v2 guns-only dogfights? (WW2 - Vietnam Era planes would be cool)

[@F23GreyGhost]

He has a video like this from last December I think. It was a 3v3 of YF-23 vs F-22

[@dannystratyys4002]

4:55 You very clearly gave him the kill. You could've jinked and stayed out of his gun sights lol. I've seen how aggressive you can be when you want to. Good sport though :)

[@MrCelloman999]

Hahaha Great match! I love how evenly matched these monsters are!

[@miketwain202]

That was some Han Solo flying by the YF-23 last round. Crazy how these engagements end sometimes. 🏴‍☠️

[@FPS.Lancer]

Yes, pliz.. we would love to see That fight.

[@HarlequinWolf]

Another great video. Would love to see you in the 23, going up against some Flanker variants maybe?

[@darius75240]

In the end, the 22 was cheaper to produce and that’s why it got the contract, according to the program procurement director in an interview.

[@TheGrant65]

10:37 When you see part of your $100m fighter leaving before you do 😅

[@idahobob]

Would LOVE to see a BVR battle between these two! Probably will go to the merge anyway so best of both worlds.

[@erikcourtney1834]

Yf-23 “black widow” vs the world. But GS has to be the pilot!

[@xty9582]

Love the F-23, keep using it in video.Would be nice to see it in a long range mission air-to-air where it can use stealth to dominate

[@amaroluna5902]

Thanks for the video! I wanna see more of F-23 in action! 😉

[@DerInterloper]

Sy57 may not have the stealth, numbers or combat history, but I think it is by far the best looking fighter in my book. Lets see it fight the YF-23!

[@enpilarlapaz1494]

Allways keep in mind that planes dont get selected only by their performance. At that time northrop was busy with the B2 (and was already having a lot of cost overruns) while LM kinda had nothing going on in that league.

[@SidekickZero]

Almost clicked off the video after the 3rd fight....I was like, that's a wrap lop. Glad I stuck around!

[@williamhuff6656]

On the YF-22 versus YF-23 Air Force decision. At the time, I followed what was going on and recall reading that one thing that hurt the 23 is that the complex curves of the body were harder to manufacture, which would have made it cost more and made repairs more costly. Would love to have seen both of them in the US stable, though.

[@lantinian]

Having every book on the YF-23 in front of me, one fact that struck me about this aircraft is its supersonic maneuvering performance. I am not sure if this can be simulated in DCS, but I want to see YF-23 complete a fight without dropping bellow Mach 1.5

[@Indarow]

Considering how competitive it was in this video, that supersonic maneuverability must really be something.

[@Isaac9pd]

We were supposed to get a Navy variant of the F-22 called the “NATF-22 Sea Raptor”. But it never happened due to complications and also pricing

[@lukasychtyl1938]

Very nice video!👍

[@MrMyu]

A thrust-vectored 23? What a sight to see. Out of wild curiosity, there's an old anime called Macross Plus, which had a flyoff between two planes vying to be the next mainline fighter, and I was wondering if you were familiar. It was inspired by the ATF competition. Even if you're not a fan, the flying sequences are beautiful.

[@kevinmccarthy8746]

A big selling point was the F22 was MORE READY for the show, It did a few things, like open amd close the bomb doors or some other things that put them in a favorable light. That is what we heard any way.

[@JohnnyFaber]

"This guy needs to warm up a little " Next fight: "Looks like he warmed right up! 😆