Does Hollywood hurt America? - with Camille Paglia (1995) | THINK TANK

Original air date: June 16, 1995
There is a great deal of sex and violence on television, in the movies, and in our popular music. Does this lead to unacceptable behavior? Is this coarsening our lives? Or are sex and violence age-old staples of art and literature?
Host:
Ben Wattenberg - senior fellow, American Enterprise Institute
Panelists:
Robert Bork - Senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, former U.S. Solicitor General, and the author of Coercing Virtue: The Worldwide Rule of Judges.
Camille Paglia - professor of humanities at the University of the Arts in Philadelphia, author of Vamps and Tramps
John Leo - columnist for U.S. News and World Report, author of Two Steps Ahead of the Thought Police
"Think Tank with Ben Wattenberg" was a discussion program that aired on the Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) from 1994 to 2009, hosted by AEI Senior Fellow Ben Wattenberg. AEI offers uncut episodes of "Think Tank with Ben Wattenberg" as an academic resource that shows how American political thought has evolved on some issues and stayed the same on others.
"Think Tank with Ben Wattenberg" is licensed to AEI by Grace Creek Media, the successor of New River Media and BJW, Inc. "Think Tank with Ben Wattenberg" © Grace Creek Media
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[@zthechainz]

I just want to listen to Camille talk about anything all day long, she's incredible.

[@konradvonmarburg7733]

Agreed.

[@smyffmawzz]

Jeez . I almost didnt recognize her LOl

[@jdsiv3]

@@smyffmawzz she was a bit hot, and a lot less staccato in her speech

[@populisttrope9385]

The video should labeled Camille DESTROYS right-wing douche bags

[@marshalmcdonald7476]

I'm there with ya.

[@danesovic7585]

So many issues that were debated in 1990s are so much more pertinent and dire now, yet all serious debate has ceased.

[@bigtux11]

people have their heads buried in the sand, or they don't care about intellectual matters, they are fixated on trivialities.

[@TTM9691]

Wrong. People had their heads buried in the sand in the 90s; you think the masses were watching this? You can still find repartee like this....on public television! Which is where this was probably broadcast. People shoved their heads in the sand the day Ronald Reagan came into office. That's why they voted for him! That's what the 80s and 90s was about. If it wasn't for 9/11, people would still have their heads in the sand. Unfortunately, when they took their heads out of it, there was a new animal sitting there waiting for them: the right wing fake news propaganda machine, first on talk radio, and then in the late 90s, when Fox really started hitting its stride. And THAT'S what happened.

[@no_namematrix8630]

My god, everyone is so polite here, what the hell happened!?!

[@alansnyder9]

Online anonymity.

[@Hatrimn]

People have turned dissent into a high crime.

[@spacewitch6667]

The internet.

[@joshuarosenblatt]

@@alansnyder9 and social media algorithms.

[@Rochelle937]

I know. I love Camille's humility, how she agrees with Judge Bork towards the end. Reasonable people having a reasonable discussion. Refreshing.

[@willysuarezmaceo9319]

Such beautiful and strong minded woman

[@lasha3688]

Watching articulate and well dressed adults converse is such a breath of fresh air.

[@sameerpurwar4836]

I would die to see debates like these, truly honoured by the decorum, authenticity, eloquence and kindness of the debaters.

[@ican4ever]

First time I've watched a debate and been impressed by everyone.

[@iDEATH]

Why is it so hard to find discussions like this today? At least ones that don't involve certain people screaming and trying to deplatform anyone that doesn't already agree them. As usual, I largely agree with Camille. It's also worth noting that in the decades since there have been many studies on the effects of violent media, and the consensus seems to be that there is no causal link between real world violence and violent media.

[@NorBdelta]

Celebrities of the old era understood their place as entertainers, they knew their fame was based on their ability to entertain. Today's celebrities misinterpret their fame as an authority on all issues from economics, to political policy. And many of today' celebrities are purely political prostitutes, they never deviate from the norm, they are a unified block of opinion. See what they do to any who deviate? They are essentially excommunicated. It is worth remembering that such discussions would shine a light on how the entertainers have been replaced with political ideologues who use their fame to push their own ideologies. Look at any relatively popular celebrity, you will see them droning on and on about climate change, poverty, et al. And they continually bleat at the rest of us to change and to force change but they themselves are completely immune to any sacrifice. They wish for us to fly less, eat less meat, wear fewer new clothes, etc but they will not sacrifice a small aspect of their hyper-wealthy lives. When was the last time you heard a celebrity say "You know what? I don't need to own a 25 room house in Hollywood, I will buy a small flat instead and drive a used car". These celebrities are walking paradoxes. Their wealth is unbelievable considering what they produce, they don't see the irony of calling out rich people when they only produce entertainment.

[@HolyknightVader999]

Heck, the Romans and Medievals would probably use violent media to siphon the violent energies of the masses. They used to call it "bread and circuses." If the Roman Empire still lived today, you can bet your ass they'd be handing out free movie tickets and running free video game arcades where they serve you free fries and burgers to keep the homeless and discontent members of the populace happy.

[@HolyknightVader999]

@@NorBdelta Modern day celebrities are the equivalent of Jabba the Hutt telling people not to gorge themselves into obesity. They're walking jokes.

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

Only the small Jubilee channel here on KZbin seems to be doing that kind of moderate content anymore.

[@johnywartooth4048]

Because stupid people had stupid kids

[@barbarellaville]

I miss the time when you could actually hear people having an intelligent conversation on television. Good times. What happened?

[@spacewitch6667]

The internet.

[@MelodyKia]

Wokeism happened.

[@joshuarosenblatt]

Indeed.

[@chamboyette853]

@@spacewitch6667 No because the internet already existed in the 1990s. It was social media.

[@jaycorwin1625]

@@chamboyette853 Agreed---and everything on television turned into the Jerry Springer Show---and screaming and hair tossing have replaced logic, detached disagreements and civility.

[@HolyknightVader999]

Having been both a teacher and a gamer, I can see where both sides come from. Kids who play games where they act obnoxious or watch/listen to music and movies that have some questionable content act like idiots, but people who are emotionally mature can play violent video games and watch violent media without going nuts. It boils down to the emotional maturity of the people experiencing the media.

[@Wasp239]

So, if one is offended and disgusted by cruelty and sexual violence he/she is immature... This is kinda lame

[@HolyknightVader999]

@@Wasp239 So basically, you can't even tolerate free speech and expression because you're easily triggered how lame. If someone wants to write a story about rape because a friend of theirs got raped, he now has to walk on eggshells to not offend the tumblrina crowd. If someone wants to write a story about a cruel boss hurting those below him because they've seen it themselves in real life, it's forbidden. That's what you call lame.

[@jgrab1]

@@Wasp239 No, he didn't say that, read again.

[@HolyknightVader999]

@Earth Says you. They actually have fun with doing homework when I'm around.

[@kkhushkkhush9892]

Nice to see Camilia smiling

[@guidosanchez5695]

Very good discussion. I tuned in for Camille, but I think that they all raise good points.

[@markae0]

I'ld like to see this same interview again 25 years later . John Leo ,Camille Paglia, are still here , but who to fill in for Robert Bork?

[@sufiblacksongkok]

Maybe Thomas Sowell? It'd be interesting to hear him talk about race and culture in socio-economic

[@markflierl1624]

3:51 Bork won the debate. "If there isn't, the advertisers are wasting billions of dollars a year". The advertisers aren't wasting billions of dollars a year.

[@chamboyette853]

Notice how none of these people are relying on their gender or race, but rather by their beliefs.

[@TTM9691]

LOL. Maybe because they're all white.

[@Souls2009]

Camille outclasses everyone as per usual.

[@playapapapa23]

I don’t know about that. It was a well rounded wonderful conversation.

[@Anonamoosemouse]

The problem with this discussion is the conflation of correlation with causation. Perverted people are more likely to consume illicit material, but it doesn't mean the material causes them to become perverted.

[@markae0]

6:30 "Our children are watching thousands of murders" and today with computers XBOX PlayStation etc, our children are DOING thousands of murders in a virtual reality.

[@firouz4296]

A beautiful mind. Paglia is out of this world.

[@hyacinthlynch843]

Ms Paglia is one of my heroes.

[@zzfour]

“Just as there is no use arguing about taste, there is no use litigating about it.” -Justice Antonin Scalia

[@kporcelain2431]

i am so so happy to have the internet if only for its abundance of paglia content

[@shining-ana418]

After all these years, it proved that none of these people's plans worked.. We are still going downhill in the same direction and at the same speed.

[@mosespray4510]

Anyone else find it kind of nostalgic to worry about these problems? Now the old school conservatives are gone, the classical liberals are the conservatives, and Hollywood movies are a sideshow.

[@joshfranklin9941]

It feels so old-fashioned!

[@Yazz2014]

@@joshfranklin9941everything old is new again.

[@recedingant4868]

Camille is a national treasure

[@regalsmartie11]

Disillusioned student just discovered Camille. She was so HOT back in the day.. Damn. Wish I wasnt like 3 years old then!

[@oni654]

I wasn't even born at that time smh

[@regalsmartie11]

@@oni654 oooh showing off your youth :) Im gonna be finishing my 20s soon... :( Enjoy every second of being young!

[@oni654]

@@regalsmartie11 I'm around 15-16 now lol But I agree, Camille was brilliant at the time, she's so silent nowadays, even JBP came back and slavoj zizek commented on the situation but she was the only person that never said anything unfortunately. I've read some of her stuff, sexual personae is pretty good. She would do herself a favour if she read more Carl Jung hahaha

[@prasadyoutube7823]

😂 You wouldn't stand a chance, even if your extremely handsome. She is staunchly lesbian 😂. Without even considering your intelligence, compared to her's.

[@regalsmartie11]

@@prasadyoutube7823 lol I am a lesbian.

[@rottenaudiobooks2310]

6:20: "Catharsis...only works in a culture with stable controls...When you have a culture melting down...you're going to find the next generation taking messages directly from the screen..." Whoa...this guy just predicted the rise of so many modern mass shooters! Elliot Rodger: "Who's the alpha male now b****??" 8:10: "We cannot have the young raised only on a diet of popular culture." Total agreement. And with more and more Incels emerging into the spotlight raised on a diet of video games and porn, we're seeing the dark consequences of that. It's so ironic that it used to be Conservative voices who were the loudest advocates for censorship. Now it's the Liberal side. What goes around comes around...

[@davidlamb591]

This is a discussion from a many years ago. BUT: nothing has changed, the propaganda and wrong messages ftom Hollywood has got worse in my opinion.

[@TTM9691]

....and yet I'm sure you're a lumpen lower animal couch potato, watching movie after movie after TV show after TV show. I have no use for slugs who babble and whine about "Hollywood", as if it's some kind of an institution rather than a company (or industry) town. People whose entire lives are sitting in front of the tube and then they want to whine about it incessantly. Let me guess, Dopey David from 4 years ago: you've never set foot in L.A, or on a movie set once in your provincial hick life, who are you kidding?

[@hectormata449]

Ben Wattenburg, thank you so very much for this very balanced unbiased intellectual discussion. Thought provoking and entertaining at its very best 😢

[@TheVivienne1990]

I can’t imagine this kind of debate being broadcast nowadays. The sheer fact they singled out black community as its own would have got them cancelled 😂😂😂

[@dexterdextrow7248]

Can't other than agree with most of what that lady says, by far the most scientifically aligned arguments are coming from her.

[@brianmeen2158]

Camille is amazing. There are no modern feminists that come close to her

[@kevinage2332]

“President Clinton and senator Dole think that sex and violence in movies can cause bad behaviours” 28 years later, they have

[@nicksundby]

Here in the UK we have no one like Camille alas

[@MegaGranni]

America-- the healthiest country in the world, times have changed

[@abubakr2981]

This was a a very interesting dialogue.

[@ExxylcrothEagle]

James Cameron hates biker bars. What's the big deal?

[@kerry-ch2zi]

Everyone should take note of what a polite, articulate, coherent dialogue took place here, and then realize that this was 38 years ago. What happened?

[@jonathankieranwriter]

I agree with Camille, but the issue is the distribution of this material, the ease of pervasiveness. Her example of Hamlet does not ring true: the vast majority of people even in Shakespeare’s time did not attend artistic plays featuring violent realities of life-they were living those violent realities. At that time, art had the power to transform and uplift. At the same time, you cannot blame the industry for the success of violent content. It appeals to the basest human instincts and humans want to see it. It’s like porn. Animalistic, common. There is only one question: Do the entertainment “powers” give people the animalistic, violent material that their base instincts desire, or do we encourage-*not* mandate!-the *encouragement* of arts that tend toward social and spiritual uplift? Let the society encourage what it wants and reject what it wants. When the base, animalistic societies fall, so be it. If societies that value uplifting tendencies in the arts, let them survive. Do not censor. Let respectable people in society reject what is clearly abhorrent. If society fails to do this, let them suffer the consequences. NO CENSORSHIP, except for already established illegalities, i.e. abuse of children. Let adult artists create meaningful work involving adults. If the last line of decency is abuse of kids, we are already doomed, because it appears to be rampant. Even so, I will fight to the death against the artistic censorship of adult artists of any kind. So, Camille gets my vote here. But I certainly see one or two of Bork’s points (not all of them). “Artists” who use and exploit children deserve death. Adult artists who ply their wares, however trite or repellent, will be embraced or castigated as the consumer environment determines. Let the chips fall where they may. NO censorship. NO SJW bullshit “cancelling.” NO dogmatism from the crazy religious Right or the crazy Doctrinarian Left (who are looking more and more alike with each passing year.) If any kind of “art” harms children, punish without mercy. Everything produced by adults (involving adults) can either be welcomed or driven out of town by the public. I have to say, I champion movements in the entertainment industries that encourage uplifting themes, even if violence is portrayed as the reality that it is (i.e. The Godfather, ALL WESTERNS, etc.). In 1995, Camille could not have known to what extent social media would disseminate all of the worst facets of human behavior. Current social media represents a staggering difference in the *distribution* of uncontrolled, ignoble, disgraceful human behaviors. Social media is not presenting anything new-humans, at their worst, have always been just a whisker above wild hogs. But social media does proliferate “artistic” depictions of degradation and moral rot on a universal platform unprecedented in all of recorded human history. Oligarchs across the world allow this to occur via their platforms and there is no power focused enough to rise against them and correct things. Even if past human history did not prove that doom is always imminent for arrogant, reckless empires, trust me-doom is imminent. Get you heads out of your asses and make adjustments. Look after yourselves!

[@mgregory22]

I love the idea of building up the high art of the cultural Canon and the study of great thinkers as an alternative to censorship. At the very least we can do that for ourselves, so it's a very practical plan that can be into practice immediately.

[@antonionalesnik1991]

5:35 made my week 😅

[@tishie42]

Oh my I feel so old and quaint. How far we have fallen..

[@flavoreid]

Oooh thanks for upload it!

[@MiaLogoes]

And here we are...

[@ExxylcrothEagle]

Gilles de Raileieyy omg. I remember reading La Bas 20 Yeats ago

[@robinwatkins8528]

Camille said that the working class 1) likes a certain level of sex and violence that 2) may make the upper middle class uncomfortable. Could both of her assumptions be any more elitist?

[@neige4221]

You can censor perverted material, but how do you censor a perverted mind? That type of person will be true to their nature, no matter if there is material out there for them to consume or not.

[@lividoby1749]

It’s sad to see that in today’s society we have shows like the view instead of this

[@blacky93able]

She remembers what i support Feminists Against Censorship.

[@christianwehner5565]

Did anyone else enjoy the comfort with which that very old white man said "hoes and bitches" or just me?

[@thatssokwekwe]

“We should shame Time Warner” Before the decade was over, they gave us The Sopranos, and would go on to give us Game Of Thrones

[@fetch5002]

This conclusion about a religious resurgence is, to my surprise, believable. Also, I think it is necessary. Five years ago I was convinced atheism was surging ahead of religious doctrine. Being in my late teens I subscribed to a kind of serious doubt (like atheism, but without committing to the title) if only for the sultry lulls Christopher Hitchens commanded on my want for independence. Listen to Jordan Peterson speak about the Christian faith from his lecture series on the bible (and it comes up in other lectures). This is also exceptionally insightful on the link between Christianity, science, and nihilism: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iaTSh5uBpJmIrLM How people will move forward isn't entirely obvious.

[@keyboarddancers7751]

There is too much nutritional content on KZbin for me to digest!

[@ipdavid1043]

Look at nowadays mess...these forefrontiers foresaw the modern day mess

[@bangerbeats2275]

Vibes

[@Coconutlacroix]

She has a very similar speaking Cadence to Thomas Sowell

[@sprtwlf9314]

Extreme intelligence and eloquence.

[@Jarek_73]

WIth all thinkable respect to Paglia, Sowell is in his own league.

[@ipdavid1043]

now we look at... of course!

[@guruprasadf07]

Very odd to see a liberal democrat and conservative Republican come together in the past.

[@jonathankieranwriter]

Pervasiveness. That’s the aspect they were all dancing around, a bit, even then.

[@guntherhochleitner3177]

American society has been melting down for 185 years ..

[@bradjohnston8193]

America was born into a cradle with not one but two vipers in it. The first was Slavery, and the second was the French Revolution. The second one turned out to be worse by far.

[@FazartOrganization]

16:00 They would and have acted anyway, hence atrocities past.

[@playapapapa23]

My God! Adults having an adult conversation!!!!

[@augustgreig9420]

NBK is a critique on the media. People are so stupid.

[@giokarp]

reckoning

[@ronDCM]

Eevrybody having a say is good only if those voices have an inner moral and conscientious anchor. But with moral values and reality being thrown out the window, and social media separating and entrancing the new generation in conflicting echo chambers-moral truth(even scientific truth) is no longer an anchor to keep people grounded. There is no baseline to have an decent conversation because everyone have their own "truth".

[@edgardoplasencia511]

yes . Without Hollywood, 9/11 would have looked very different

[@Subliminal8853]

20:20

[@marshalmcdonald7476]

I am a fan of Camille Paglia but right out of the gates I disagree with her. To compare the mild and merely implied violence of Hamlet to Quentin Tarantino's explicit depictions of remorseless killers juxtaposed closely to erotic and titillating imagery??! C'mon Camille.

[@firouz4296]

I want to be the chair of the national political congress of black women Miss Stocker - in her fabulous drag! and I am not even a woman, or black, or a chair. Yeas, gawd!

[@geofractal]

September 2024, and I don't watch that trash any more. At all!

[@jabara83]

Watching this intro about political correctness in 2021. Ha. haha. Hahahah. HAHAHAAAAA. hahahaha

[@jamesdunning8650]

Leftism knows no bottom..it just keeps sinking.

[@BigBunnyLove]

Jesus was Bork ineffective and scared.

[@SP-mf9sh]

When the guy who wants to censor perversion looks like a pervert.

[@tomoliver2112]

When you have nothing of value to add so you attack someone’s appearance.

[@freeindeed8416]

@@tomoliver2112 Bazinga

[@carolinesa91]

It's generally the case, majority of these people just put a facade of pure and pious, but they have sick fantasies of violence and sex. This call for repression and censorship is a projection on others of their perverted nature.

[@queenesther1739]

Love her but what does a lesbian know about raising children? Smh

[@wtfnaj]

you clearly don't stand for the same thing paglia does.

[@Libertariun]

She raises a child now