After Socrates: Episode 22 - Exploring The I-Thou

[@Parsons4Geist]

shoutout OG Rose FAM❤ the Heaven's align the day OG ROSE and Christopher dialog

[@mills8102]

The I-Thou is a scary proposal. Thrasymachus is venerated by many. Thank you for your continuing exploration of the subject. You all have done a lot of work walking us through the preparatory work to approach this core issue of proper orientation and relating.

[@quentissential]

57:05 confession - practice to cultivate humility. Yeah, that's good. The whole conversation reminded me of the 'light of life'.

[@trippyfolk7351]

This is great, you're work is criminally underrated. Im halfway through and the relation between speech and silence was so profound. Thank you all for your time.

[@climbingmt.sophia]

As someone deeply engaged with the Dielectic into Dialogos practice, leading groups and teaching others, this was unbelievably helpful. My experience and those I witness in my interlocutors deeply resonate with this. Thank you!

[@swayson5208]

I wish these conversations had a visual illustration to accompany it. It is dense and complex, and a 3blue1brown style animation of the content would do wonders

[@eduardomedina5794]

Thank you all for this conversations, very enlightening material. Greetings from Paraguay!

[@erlinae1]

This discussion provides wisdom on steroids. As a leader of a team who is experiencing constraints we can now explore our personal involvement in how we are each applying constraints. How do explore our virtues to help us loosen the grips of our self imposed limitations. You may have just saved a 35 year old Non-Profit that teaches EQ. Peace and Blessings be with you all.

[@martinchikilian]

Fascinating episode. I started to wonder on the second half of the dialogue and towards its end if there's any systematicity in the engagement of humiliation as the very first process we have to go through in order to get closer to committing to a virtue. I'm no psychologist, but it sounds to me like the engagement into this meta-virtue when seeking an 'I-Thou' relationship implies as much deattachment from the ego as possible in order for the grammar of intelligibility to disclose anything to us which then takes the form of this type of relationship. If we don't do this, we stick to the propositional and close ourselves off to anything resembling a virtue. Looking forward to more conversations like this one. Thanks, Chris, Guy, and John!

[@movewithseth]

The willingness to be in error… And the willingness to let others be in error without judging them prematurely… if more of us would be willing to practice just that, it would make such an important difference in the collective experience!

[@danielmartines3859]

50:55 not sure I agree. Socrates doesn’t face his interlocutor. Socrates becomes faceless, and engages in at-onement with the virtue as it appears, in the manner it appears. That’s what Socrates is facing instead. It is not “bidirectional”. It is much more akin to two puffs of smoke mixing with each other, coalescing, co-extending, co-becoming in autopoeisis until a new “one” is achieved. By doing so becoming the virtue. Socrates engages in wisdom phenomena making, like kindling a log until it catches fire. And then becoming fire 🔥

[@martinbouvrette9141]

35:57 when the silence said a joke (lots of insights listening to your talks, thanks)

[@Beederda]

I appreciate your time JV ❤️🍄

[@ruhdandoujon6310]

I think you have mentioned "epistemic humility" in a precedent episode. I liked that. Now I hear you guys have got "some of the profound patterns and principles of reality itself ¨ !

[@johnvervaeke]

I am not sure about the specific reference but I hope we spoke about a sense of profound patterns principles and their realness. If not. I apologize and that is what we should have said. I do not want to convey a sense of certainty but only to convey what is conveyed phenomenologically. There must be, and there is, independent convergent argumentation that renders the claims plausible.

[@watcherofvideoswasteroftim5788]

This video helped me realize how the through line of being is like

[@brianskolart]

during the conversation the thought of how emergence works came to mind. Where when people who are educated about a topic can all be wrong but the sum total of their conclusion can amount to something thats accurate. Don't humans live only in approximation to the world? Religions often model the world incorrectly where science is concerned, but can produce a result through the a practice that is more positive if used to navigate the world with. This is said in the context of the virtues, where it might not matter if everyone is getting it wrong so long as the wrongness of it is approximal to the virtue. Is it possible that one will never fully land on a virtue? That it could only ever be an approximation, and that's in part what makes it a virtue? Idk, fantastic discussion. Thank you guys.

[@guillaumeauvray6883]

Hot damn, in Marseille I received this at nighttime. Merci beaucoup

[@missh1774]

... error, errand, aéro, arrow ha! 🏹 It must be like being pushed around by two of the same beings ... God and Philosophers. There's no escape when both are fluent in the language of the true, good and beautiful. And there I thought these last few videos would render me speechless...

[@Parsons4Geist]

19:59 the great Insight of Piaget is the inside of the science of logic for Hegel. it is much more the misrecognition that move us thur understanding. why Lacan sees ego psychology as a problem because the ego thinks it moves thru logical steps by getting it answers right. but it is thru contradictions and lack that we come along the self that is dependent on the other for the self

[@danielmartines3859]

41:23 Love this part. @John there is no word for what you describe. Even if there a word existed (logos) it wouldn’t describe this manifestation. Look at how the Tao Te Ching starts “The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao The name that can be named is not the eternal Name.”

[@jonathantrautman]

beautiful! thank you!

[@yazanasad7811]

Meaning in life two questions 1) what would you like to exist if not existing 2) how are you getting involved with this Piaget: iq tests, look for systematicity of error, and finds it. We systemise errors and dialect/dialogos allows us, through i-thou (right attitude) to become aware of the error we are perhaps making, and thereby helps us get closer to the virtue Notice

[@yazanasad7811]

Notice invariance heuristic - recognise error in one field, then another field and another field. Look for what not changing in each of the mistakes to promote insight. look for systematicity in error. Pressing on this gets closer to the connection. 1) systemaciity of error 2) look for what's not changing in those errors 3) press on these to get closer to connection We-space leads to geist (logos of error/some sort of flow state providing feedback to the virtue as a heist, a collective presence) leads to exposure to virtue seems like --- Ok so a dialogos each person speaking to persona of the virtue as the geist, which means disclosing and withdrawing like any I - thou relationship, which also implies sensitivity to error through flow state feedback, but also it looks like each participant is looking at their own persona of the virtue and that these personas also influence the personas of the virtue and thereby the individuals themselves

[@yazanasad7811]

Error: consider all rate of error and patterning of error as opposed to just content of error when it comes to predictive processing

[@yazanasad7811]

Conveyance of virtue is in the silence/aporia and the probing is in the speech (the effort/the listening). An inversion. Every act of speaking is a listening exercise and every act of silence is speaking forth the virtue Relationship with philia, with the geist (authentic relating; the face of the virtue) but then dialogos can allow relationship with being itself (logos) Skin on the ghost (persona on the logos) Through dialogos we collectivise errors so notice the patterns to make breakthrough and insights. Right! Confession leads to humiliation, receive love of God. To be a thou Confession to see error to see hand of God, not about the autobiography, it's about seeing beneath it Dialogos: make a definition becomes persona but confessing sins because not perfect, and therefore starts to create negative image to allow being to shine through. More facets/faces leads to more access to Intelligibility behind that.

[@yazanasad7811]

How do you know you're in right relationship to a virtue when the proposal is in some way an error A link between error and errand (systemisation of an error leading to a disclosing, a logos of an error) shows pattern and rates of error to help improve the error

[@yazanasad7811]

Insight not end result but a tool in the process Paradox of love - connected to and aspiring to connect to a virtue. Interesting

[@RickDelmonico]

9:00 Dynamic transjectivity.

[@RickDelmonico]

Too many people treat truth as a goal. Truth is a tool, the goal is meaningful value.

[@steveflorida8699]

If understanding has "meaningful value", then truth is a meaningful value. Therefore, a goal towards understanding is the pursuit of attaining truth. Understanding truth.

[@RickDelmonico]

@@steveflorida8699 Not all truths are valuable, some truths will get you killed.

[@royaebrahim2449]

❤

[@1tether]

It's fun watching them search for a rational sub equivalent to the holly spirit. Literally calling it a geist 😅

[@danielmartines3859]

Well said!

[@HantonSacu]

it's not rationalizing, i.e. in a sense of illuminating holy spirit, or you listening to a conversation; it's auto-poetisizing of the holy spirit. That's what makes it fun. That's why prof. Vervaeke and his friends label it as such, dia-logos. It's like a dot in a circle of dialectics. 😂

[@climbingmt.sophia]

Two frames may orient toward the same goal from different points and not threaten one another.

[@whussthadeal3798]

Creating Aw and Wonder, wow.

[@RickDelmonico]

Ritual as embodied, enacted, embedded, and extended intimacy. Think of a shared meal.

[@colorfulbookmark]

Upcoming downcoming event, it is what I-Thou relationship is warranting, but sometimes approval of it is enough, not to be following it with positions.

[@RickDelmonico]

2:30

[@RickDelmonico]

44:44 Holographic virtue.

[@fredwasson8712]

Third like!! 😂

[@KingNigelthegreat]

Socratic Gaslighting. I better see that shit on your youtube by tomorrow like use u al(l) potent emphemerality contagions and nothing to it. Otherwise Buckminster fuller was wrong. name invocation forced contagion. I knowthat I know nothing

[@steveflorida8699]

If you know that you know nothing, then you Know.

[@_ARCATEC_]

💓