Queen Marika's Perfect Plan

[@XKathXgames]

You made a mistake man. There's no such thing as a Turtle Pope in this game. Miriel is obviously a Dog Pope.

[@swamashijudbedolofritt4448]

Man i love this community 💞

[@katyyulig]

Please edit and reupload.

[@Bnasty1414]

Try Fingers

[@Cheattoe]

The most Holy See has sent me to condemn this blasphemy the most highest and palest turtle will not stand for such a tarnished stain upon his turtleness

[@RockyApp]

Praise Dog Pope

[@terrellfair9812]

Plot twist : Marika never shattered the ring. She just dropped it coming down the stairs and played it off

[@grandbean9031]

Oh noooo. The elden ring. It's brokeeeen.

[@nostalji93]

@@grandbean9031 More like: Radagon: Honey DID I JUST HEAR THE RING SHATTERING?! Marika: WHat? Na- I mean yes ! Do you think I would just drop it accidentally?! I broke it to crush the patriachy! To prove a point! And btw I wouldnt have to break it if you could just listen to me once. Its your fault! Now go repair it!

[@alalmalal]

@@grandbean9031 she was seeing how many bricks she could stack on top of it at a time

[@Year8mandem]

Elden omori

[@GaminCatto]

@@Year8mandem oh no

[@terrydavis5924]

So, before his death, who was Godwyn the Golden? What aspect did he embody before inheriting the rune of death? Who are his loyal knights? I think I have it figured out thanks to a ghost in Castle Sol. Godwyn was the Sun. Despite a huge focus on celestial bodies in the Lands Between, there is no sunlight to be seen, only the Grace of the Erdtree. In fact, the main symbol we come across is that of an eclipsed sun, with very old references to a full sun on the Omen Armor. Headless Knights are usually found around Walking Belltowers, and bear the symbol of the Eclipse, yet we don't really know who they serve. The Eclipse Shotel, a symbol of the Sun, inflicts DEATHBLIGHT. Something only associated with Godwyn (and basilisks). This leaves me with either two conclusions. 1. Following the most direct implication of the Ghost in Castle Sol, the sun was 'killed' in an attempt to bring Godwyn back to life, 'to bring life to the soulless'. 2. The act of killing Godwyn also killed the Sun. The Eclipse itself resembles the Dark Sign, and can easily be an allegory for the death of the sun. Ranni is associated with the Moon, so that adds a layer of Duality with the Sun and Moon being killed together. Scions of Gold and Silver each. Praise the Sun!

[@leobaron9417]

Very interesting theory!

[@khandimahn9687]

Actually, I have seen the sun in game. It seems to be easiest to see around sunset/sunrise. Higher in the sky and it seems to be drowned out by the light of the Erdtree - which still lines up mostly with your theory. There is a clear day/night cycle in the world, where is the light coming from during the day if there is no sun? And night, well, there's a giant glowing tree so night doesn't get particularly dark. I took 'Godwyn is the sun' to be more figurative than literal. He was 'golden and bright like the sun' in many people's eyes.

[@huynhnguyenanhuy]

Dude i always see the sun so idk man

[@destinylsp4537]

Theyre walking mausoleums. Nitpicky detail but i had to lol

[@chuckwood3426]

This is a great theory! I always wondered why you could see the moon during the night. But there is no sun in the sky during the day. All the light of the day comes from the bright sky itself rather than a sun. (Not from the Erdtree, mostly.) So why is that? Did From forget to put the sun there? Or is there a lore reason as to its absence?

[@e.m.p.3394]

I always theorized that the Numen were a reference to Tolkien's Numenoreans. The (Better) men. Men who were strong and tall and lived exceedingly long life but never immortal.

[@hunchojack2614]

Wow

[@wiegraf9009]

That's undoubtedly true. Farum Azula also follows the trope of the fall of Numenor (although the Numens aren't from there), which was itself based on the myth of Atlantis.

[@wenzelplot]

I thought that was overtly obvious

[@femtokun]

yeah well...many of other people as well. It is obviously a reference to Tolkein's Numenorians...like many other things in this game :)

[@e.m.p.3394]

I'd like to apologize if anybody else thought it was quite obvious. I hadn't seen anybody else compare it before. So I just wanted to speak my thoughts. Sorry if I angered anyone.

[@KenXyroReal]

Japanese translator here. Your comment about mistranslation of Japanese text got me interested so I decided to load up my game in Japanese and here's some interesting points: 1. Numen Race is referred to as 稀人. 稀 meaning Rare and 人 meaning person. There is also a japanese horror movie titled 稀人 - read as "Marebito" and the movie's English version is translated as "Unique One". 2. "Numen are the same race as Marika and came from outside The Lands Between." - Numen Rune description. The "outside" kanji is 外. In our world this kanji is used for foreigners. So if a foreigner visits your country, you can refer to them as "外人" / Outside Person. In the game, I don't think it is necessarily referring to outer space since the kanji for anything related with space uses "宇宙"..... "宇宙人" is aliens. Although, since real world rules aren't really followed in the game, 'outside' may refer to 'outer space' in the context of the game. I think it totally depends on exactly what exists outside The Lands Between. If there are other places on the planet, then I'd say the game is NOT referring to outer space. One thing I can say with 100% confidence is that Numen did not come from "Outside World" as you said in the video, there's a very specific way of saying that in Japanese and in the game Numen's homeland is always referred to as "Outside The Lands Between" rather than "Outside World". The difference here being that whatever is outside Lands Between is not an entirely different world but rather part of a whole. 3. While we're at it, The Lands Between is written as "狭間の地". It is a bit difficult to explain tho, but I'll try. 狭間 could have several meanings: interval, space (as in space between things, NOT outer space), Embrasure (Google it). の is pretty much 's equivalent. So if you say Kenのclothes, it would mean Ken's Clothes. 地 means Land / Ground / Place. If you google the word "Embrasure", it will show you pictures of what it is and that makes it really easy to picture what The Lands Between translation really comes from. In general, there's things outside and Lands Between is just a minor piece of a big whole. Also, Lands Between is not necessarily horizontal but can also be vertical. Meaning, Elden Gods realm being on top, Lands Between in the between and then whatever else is below.

[@nemecil]

Wow that's very intriguing! Thanks for the insight ^^

[@nathanjora7627]

There are definitely other lands existing on the same planet as the lands between since the tarnished reached other lands by boat. Interesting comment btw.

[@danwolf6076]

Lands between is easy to explain, you have several large nations, and BETWEEN them, is the lands between

[@XonixDerps]

This was oddly easier for me to get given the celtic inspiration since I just went: Oh so like the other world? lol

[@ecci0261]

Thankyou for looking into this.

[@mrsmartypants4541]

I really want people to give Goldmask a chance. He literally does all that Marika wanted to achieve by himself. His rune rids the world of all gods, yet he is rarely mentioned.

[@mac1bc]

Goldmask improves on the Golden Order's flaws, he is just misunderstood.

[@NoConsequenc3]

He embraces the Greater Will though doesn't he? The Greater Will is literally an Outer God

[@mrsmartypants4541]

@@NoConsequenc3 Goldmasks sees gods, inner or outer as the biggest flaw in the order. He basically wants to keep the world as is but without the interference of Greater Will or any other god.

[@fariyanahmed6592]

@@mrsmartypants4541 ranni literally fights the greater will

[@mrsmartypants4541]

@@fariyanahmed6592 Ranni literally worships the Dark moon god

[@dropkoo]

There is the shattering (the event, breaking the ring), and the Shattering (the war that ensued). Capital S. The runes then were claimed by the demigods and their urge for power led to the Shattering (war).

[@collin2401]

Thank you, I was just going to make this exact same comment!

[@Karanagi]

Exactly! The Shattering is the most confusing term I've run across in the game's lore so far. But it does make me wonder why they chose that name.

[@zachh3296]

Dude no.

[@collin2401]

@@zachh3296 What?

[@MaidenlessScrub]

They fought for their own reasons and not just for the sake of gaining power. I think only mohg and godrick desire power just for the sake of power.

[@Knurlurzhad]

I've had similar thoughts that Marika intended all of this. So many things she did ended up setting up dominos that eventually fell over to result in the player destroying Radagon and the Elden Beast. -Sending away the Tarnished -Cursing the Fire Giant to tend the flame that burns the Erdtree -Cursing Hewg to make a god-killing weapon -Setting up Ranni and Renala as an opposing force At some point it stops becoming tragic irony and becomes a plan

[@GuyJustCool]

@@Knurlurzhad now add melina being her part the same way radagon is, and you see a master plan of killing every demigod, who are in words of chrone "parts of merika", to fix what she has done, pretty much mothering a parasitic tree of greater will. Sending them to the erdtree, burning it(forge fire burns souls) , and killing her part that is melina. The only parts of her soul left are ranni, beast, radagon and herself and Miqella. In new dlc you kill Miqella and reincarnated radahn. You kill everyone, burning the tree that their souls retreat to. And then there is ranni and what is left of godwyn. This is the only odd puzzle piece. The ranni is the only remaining soul that bears part of merika. But who knows, maybe her moving from her body split her "greater will part" Off

[@clfoster82]

The shattering of the Elden Ring isn't the same as the Shattering War, although one is the trigger that caused the other 😉 the Elden Ring was shattered by the queen, the demigod children each got one great rune, and then in their lust for more power, started the Shattering War, which they all basically took all their forces and attacked each other to try and take more great runes.

[@pigzy9807]

I'm not so sure that they all wanted or could take one another's great runes. Malinia defeated Godrick, yet he still has his rune

[@FallenFromGlory]

@@pigzy9807 He begged for his life and disgusted her.

[@danielurban4221]

This is correct. I believe in the intro they are referencing the shattering war, not the physical act of Marika shattering the ring.

[@asbestoz1123]

They were all trying to become Elden Lord by winning the War of the Shattering

[@kaiser5731]

@@FallenFromGlory she had to bloom and use her rot just to survive thats why it was a stalemate, she did not defeat him and ended up fucked by her own rot too the cleanrot knight finlay says the following: "Finlay was one of the few survivors of the Battle of Aeonia, who in an unimaginable act of heroism carried the slumbering demigod Malenia all the way back to the Haligtree. She managed the feat alone, fending off all manner of foes along the way."

[@calamitykiwi782]

When it comes to Marika and Radagon, I believe they started a two separate beings at first. My theory is that the Greater Will suspected Marikas betrayal and that was why Radagon was summoned to marry and become one with Marika. He was unflinchingly loyal to the Golden Order and they believed he would be able to keep Marika under control

[@TheTrueHolyDarkness]

He has to be more from the very beginning. I suspect Marika generated Radagon as a persona and disguise to be among her people at first, using the rune of Rebirth, similar to how you canonically use it to change appearances and even gender. However, a seperate consciousness was beginning to form, or a need to split completely was required. So, using the same principle behind mimic tears, but on a higher level, she had a Radagon split off from her upon the same principle our mimic tear was MEANT to be introduced to us (see the mimic tear cut content), so she could be in two places at once. It would make sense, if Marika is of the eternal cities. I strongly suspect that Radagon operates on the same principle behind the Albinerics, spawned after Marika performed a temporary gender swap rebirth. A mimic perfected to such a degree that he can birth demigods.

[@bereft0fdev278]

@@TheTrueHolyDarkness woah. That makes so much sense... Marika mightve even modified the methods of making a mimic tear radagon after becoming a God, the same way the "amber" from the Erdtree has similar qualities to the "amber" of the stars in glintstone but with extremely different effects, even more so with access to this new power source that actively works to influence the creation of life and choose which is blessed by grace and which isn't. It's an interesting thought knowing that the people of the eternal cities are enemies of the golden order in the present, perhaps the greater will had an effect on their abilities, cutting them off from any gods they worshiped and forcing them underground? Would explain why such an advanced people are never seen above ground in any impactful way.

[@GriFFonRec4]

There are some sweet theory bombs in this thread. I do however think Marika was Radagon when they had kids with Rennala, otherwise Ranni, Rykard and Rahdan wouldn't be demi-gods, offspring of Marika. I'm sure Radagon is a different persona to Marika, one who was very pro Golden Order, but I believe they always shared the same godly flesh. One of my biggest questions when I started the game was "how are Ranni and Rahdan demi-gods?" At first, I assumed Rennala was also some kind of goddess, but now, of course at this point, I know that the big secret in the game is Marika is Radagon (I also know that Rennala is just a champion). I completely forgot that Radagon GAVE Rennala the amber egg capable of rebirth. That's a huge clue to how Radagon even came into being. Now there are some theories as to how Miquella and Malenia were born, and some are somewhat outlandish in nature, but even then I still think they make more sense than Radagon, being some random champion who had kids with Rennala and somehow elevated them to godhood when he went back to Marika, since there is like 0 evidence of that even being how it works.

[@TheTrueHolyDarkness]

@@GriFFonRec4 I agree wholeheartedly until, in a flash of insight, I developed my new theory. Just a few days ago I also would say full stop that Radagon was always Marika, or how did he birth demigods? As such, I was ignoring evidence to the contrary, such as Marika's own words on Radagon _becoming her later_ (see Melania dialogue; Queen's Bedchamber), or how it'd be tricky keeping the secret from Miquella and Malenia as they initially grow up if they're not capable of being in two separate places at once. Not to mention, wouldn't Godfrey and Godwyn be wondering where his missing wife/mother is if she's living a double life as husband to Rennala? Doable, sure, but... Then the idea that Radagon is a mimic tear clone from Marika popped in. I now think it has even better explanatory power.

[@chuckwood3426]

I had an alternative theory that I developed while playing the game: Namely: What if Radagon came before Marika? First: not all lore are true. A lot of things NPCs say are just things they believe, not objective truth and a lot of things contradicts each other. There are two sets of info about Radagon attacking Caria. The first from Carias perspective claims that he was a warlord who invaded them and eventually fell in love with Rannala and Married her. The other claimed that Marika sent him to invade Caria. I dont understand the later because at the point that Marika became a god there were no enemies left for Marika to fight in the lands between, so Caria should already have been conquered at this point. And its not like Caria is all that far away from the capitol anyhow. But what if things happened the other way around? What if it started with the ambitious warlord Radagon invading Caria and meeting the ambitious Queen Rannala? Both had similar goals and ambitions so they married and joined forces rather than fight. Rannala was also the "Queen of Rebirth" and they both wished to use that ability to further improve themselves. So they gathered a lot of power and resources and Radagon was reborn in to a stronger form, *Marika*! The rebirth spell consumed more than just Radagon however, Rannala also put parts of herself in to the new being, which is why Marika became a female and why Rannala suddenly became an imbecile. All three of their children were also already born at this point. Marika went out in to the world but not before creating a puppet or illusion of Radagon to take her place in Caria. Just like Morgott created Margit and Moght the omen as illusions that could talk and fight on their own. Things then went on as in the video. Marika becomes allied with the greater will and conquers the lands between. Eventually she sent Godfrey away and brought Radagon and her old children back to the capitol. The children of Radagon were then "adopted" by Marika.

[@joaofaria7404]

I personally think Radagon was a Greater Will creation as part of Marika (like Adam and Eve but inversed) to finish the war against the Carian, but it backfired due to Marika starting getting doubts, since Radagon was the part of Marika who believed in the Golden Lore. And also, Godfrey and his Tarnished going outside the Lands Between was part of Marika plan as well. She took the grace out of them and send them to "die" out there to feel the freedom and become strong on their own, enough to fight the Elden Beast (God) when the time is right.

[@SaladDongs]

Why does Godfrey fight us though?

[@LucasLeCompteMusic]

@@SaladDongs I asked myself this yesterday. Why did he wait outside the door instead of going in and fighting them himself? Maybe he didnt want to defeat Marika?

[@grasson3646]

@@SaladDongs because he wants to become elden lord once more

[@SaladDongs]

@@grasson3646 it seems a little bit silly but he seems to be waiting for us rather than just sprinting towards the tree. If Marika's plan was to send him on a journey then surely she'd be pleased to see him back. I don't know He also kills Serosh which is also super weird because he keeps him in phase 1. Sure, Serosh is holding him back from going all out, but if he doesn't care about him then why didn't he kill him at the very least when we encounter him? With people like the nameless king or O&S or the other "I must bonk you, friend" bosses it sort of makes sense but here it's really strange. Serosh doesn't even really do anything ever.

[@joaofaria7404]

@@SaladDongs Only the strongest of the Tarnished can be the Elden Lord and reshape the world through the Elden Ring how it sees fit. That's what Marika was wishing by giving us freedom before. You can notice the grace guiding Godfrey directly to us in the cutscene. It's now his Fate to fight us and claim the tittle of Elden Lord back again, if he's strong enough. I believe both Marika and Godfrey worked together here. "In Marika's own words. Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey." The guidancy of the grace is made by Marika herself, while the Tarnished are originated from Godfrey, in their final attempt to break the Golden Order of the Greater Will, by forging a champion strong enough to eliminate it's manifestation as the Elden Beast. They definitely were counting in the possibility of one of Godfrey Tarnished (us) of actually be more fitting than Godfrey himself to bring a new world.

[@necromancywitch]

I have to say, I like your lore videos but I strongly disagree with the idea that the erdtree thrives off struggle. Gideon's armor set says that it's Marika who wants us to struggle eternally, and we know that she is opposed to the golden order, and thus would only want us to struggle if it harmed the greater will. I believe the reasons bodies are tangled in the erdtree roots is because it's noted in-game that burial at the erdtree is seen as an honor. And maybe because it helps speed up the process of your ashes returning to the tree so you can live again. Not to mention that the lands between ARE struggling, now more than ever. If the erdtree survived off struggle, it should be thriving. But many item descriptions hint at the tree being a shadow of its former self, no longer bestowing blessings of amber to its people. I believe that Marika wants us to struggle because it will make us stronger. By ridding the world of the rune of death, we can come back again and again to fight, grow, and learn, eventually becoming strong enough to kill the god holding her captive. I also believe that's why she divested Godfrey and his men of their grace, because they needed to struggle so as not to become complacent and weak in the world of the golden order. You could also say she wants us to struggle so we grow to resent the golden order, because if the people thrived, they'd feel no need to change. But that's just my two cents.

[@catboynestormakhno2694]

the thing is, i dont think she didnt want a world without an erdtree, she wanted us those who live in this world to control the erdtree, or at least thats how i see it. I dont think it was in her plan to get locked away, as that makes her job of executing a coup so much harder, i believe Radagon just ended up winning over Marika and locked them both away inside the Erdtree. my example of this is the Haligtree and the Unalloyed gold order

[@necromancywitch]

@@catboynestormakhno2694 I don't think Marika wanted an erdtree, because it's Melina's purpose to burn herself so that the erdtree may burn. And it's implied that Melina is Marika's daughter, and her purpose (to burn the erdtree) was given to her by her mother, queen Marika herself.

[@catboynestormakhno2694]

@@necromancywitch Well yeah if you challenge a outergod for power, im suspecting that youd be willing to setup a plan b to extends which springs off from your own source of power and ambitions, which would be to burn down the erdtree for example, which mind you is the efforts of her doing under the vassalage of the greater will, i dont think it was Marikas goal to create a world in utter desperation, but rather a last path to potential victory over the greater will

[@TheMidWave]

Gideon is a suspected saboteur of the original round table and a liar that doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. Seeing as Marika is locked away within the Erd tree and suppressed by radagon, I think he saw the Erd trees will when trying to look into hers.

[@leobaron9417]

Radagon sided with the erdtree while Marika did not. That is what caused him to try and stop us from freeing her after she was imprisoned in the erdtree, I think

[@Brunhaam]

Do you think Marika would sacrifice Godwin for her own ambitions you ask? Marika, your thoughts? "Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices."

[@newt2120]

He trapped two of her other kids in the sewers for eternity so its not far off to say she would kill one of them for her greater plan

[@AnnoyingQuentin]

This an item description or a dialogue?

[@Brunhaam]

@@AnnoyingQuentin it's a quote. Melina says it at the grace during one of her Marika citations.

[@thekaelixchamber]

But he was the golden child, the shining star of the Golden Order. Or is it exactly because of that that she deems him a failure?

[@omnerpanzo2226]

I would like to think that if this theory was true, Marika never thought that Ranni would pick Godwyn. That might explains why she's in sorrow knowing that her favorite child died.

[@garbagecan755]

The word Scion plants the origins of the Numen quite squarely in the Eternal Cities, not another planet or plane of existence. The word Scion has two meanings, the first describing a young twig or offshoot of a tree, and the second being "descendant". The game implies that the Numen are what became of the last of the people of at least one of the Eternal Cities (Potentially the Nameless City within Deeproot Depths, directly beneath Leyndell) with a rock solid double entendre, there's no way it's a coincidence. Similar to Godrick's "Grafting" being a literal description of what he's doing but also an allusion to the actual art of Grafting branches of one tree to another.

[@charbelaziz1511]

Do you think godwyn died in the nameless eternal city?

[@Clipsdawg]

We need a rerun of this with the new lore dropped by the dlc, especially with marika's stuff and some dialogue suggesting Marika may be the tarnished's most important allies

[@wednesdaylol6659]

Marika’s true goal has always been clearly told to us, that her people and the tarnished would “struggle onto eternity”. All of her plans and schemes lead to this singular goal. The golden order was leading to stagnation as it became the strongest force in the lands between, and Marika, who used to support the golden order as it was the underdog in the beginning with “all of creation opposed to it”, started to look for other opposing forces to test it. It makes so much sense that she set up all these moving parts so that struggle and strife would continue and eventually a new age would be born under the strongest to come from the prior age. If it were up to her, this cycle would continue forever, “onto eternity”

[@JohnWalter47-s2l]

If she didn't want it to end she would not have told the blacksmith to smith a weapon capable of killing a god

[@wednesdaylol6659]

@@JohnWalter47-s2l Even killing her and Radagon with a god killing weapon would fit into this goal, as the “strongest” who killed her would continue to be the one who decides the fate of the lands between. Her Golden Order would indeed end but a new age would start, the age of Fracture, Order, Stars, etc.

[@JohnWalter47-s2l]

@@wednesdaylol6659 Yeah maybe. But my thought is the god that is referred to is the elden beast that lives like a parasite within the elden ring (she/radagon tried to shatter it and you can see the damage on the belly of the beast when fighting it) and in turn it crucified her in the erdtree. And my thought is that when you slay the beast and mend the ring (by putting marika together again) she comes back to life without the parasite controlling her. Or maybe she's already long dead and the husk that was controlled by the beast just sits there as a vessel of the elden ring. And the vision she gave the blacksmith was just to end the elden beast even if it was to late to save her own life.

[@NoConsequenc3]

@@JohnWalter47-s2l testing a god involves that god being subject to losing, which requires a weapon capable of killing it. How else do you best test a god's strength if not attempting to snuff it out?

[@NoConsequenc3]

@@JohnWalter47-s2l The Elden Beast is an avatar of the Greater Will's.... will. It's not a parasite, it's a guard, much like the Shadows (Blaidd, Malekith, etc) Damaging the Elden Ring damages the Elden Beast because they're part of the same thing - The Greater Will The parasite is the Greater Will itself, not the Beast or the Ring it guards

[@ailaxl]

Also, as an aside I believe it was Rykard, a delusional but bonafide genius, who helped Ranni create the relics of Death (the knives and the stones of protection) so she could enact her plot. Their own personal desires intersected at this point, but I doubt Ranni, who wanted to rid the world of Outer Gods (as did Miquella in his own way, via trying to help Malenia) knew what Rykard's true motive was - to become god itself.

[@Cursedsama]

There's some merit to this (at least that they cooperated) as there's an item that states it was given to Rykard by Ranni in order to fight Maliketh should it be needed.

[@vvirusty]

@@Cursedsama thats also how rykard became the lord of blasphemy. i believe he knew the plan the whole time because deep in the basement of the volcano mannor there is a painting of the erdtree on fire. i have a screenshot of it when i found it

[@Cursedsama]

@@vvirusty Really? That's interesting!

[@vvirusty]

@@Cursedsama yeah its in the basement passed the godskin church. you go out the balcony and jump through a window when you get ambushed by an iron virgin. you follow that til you hit a church filled with snakes then take the upstairs stone sword key all the way down to a dark pit full of those creepy zombie dudes and its in a room at the end

[@bereft0fdev278]

@@vvirusty woah man

[@adamsirin7249]

I think the relationship between Radagon and Marika is like the relationship between Malenia and Millicent. Millicent's is heavily implied to be tied to the breaking of the unalloyed gold needle. Gowry also says that the craftsman is someone who 'understood life'. When we see Marika, she is tied to a rune arc and pierced by something. I believe this thing is a needle. Not of unalloyed gold, but of amber starlight shards that have been 'reddened'. This 'reddening', I believe is due to it containing the curse of the fire giants inflicted on Marika after their war. Hence Radagon was 'possessed of flowing red locks'. When Marika transforms into Radagon, the needle disappears. This could've been what inspired Miquella's work with needles. The needles might infact just be redirecting the curse into a surrogate (like the purging stone from dark souls 1), except Miquella's unfinished needle, which actually hoped to thwart the meddling of outer gods.

[@NoConsequenc3]

It's possible the needle doesn't have to pierce the owner's body, but rather their spirit where the influence exists. So it's not that Malenia is pierced, but rather that the mark of Rot within her spirit is pierced and, like a butterfly in a display, unable to move or influence anything. Still there, but stuck, unmoving. Without the needle... the butterflies fly free, spreading their influence across the lands between.

[@NoConsequenc3]

This also make sense as to why Malenia was rotting before the needle even broke - it's still in her, affecting her flesh, but it couldn't get out. It's possible that she could have completely rotted away and left only a spirit inhabited by the Scarlet Rot eventually. Very likely that this is what pushed her brother to put himself in the egg and become more powerful - he was only able to seal, sleep, and revert, not banish, and he had a time limit before her body would completely crumble, leaving nothing for the needle to anchor to.

[@folkvangr6417]

The "needle" piercing her is actually the same spear like needle that the Elden Beast uses in one of it's attacks in the boss fight. I believe it's a grab attack that holds you in a position similar to Marika. You're right in that it disappears when Radagon takes control however, it's more due to the fact that the Elden Beast speared Marika to the remnants of the Elden Ring whilst trapping her within the Erdtree at the behest of the Greater Will.

[@gemineye111]

Marika said from the beginning to Godfrey to LEAVE AND COME BACK. “Return to the Lands between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death.” By sending away the tarnished she would strengthen them enough to destroy the Elden Beast and get rid of the Greater Will.

[@MMMM-vq1yr]

Fun little detail. When watching the intro Cinematic we see Godfrey crucified, with a spear stabbed into his stomach. This is similar to how we find Marika at the end of the game. This convinces me even further that the Greater Will did not like Godfrey because he was an 'uncivilized', 'faithless' barbarian who only respected strength, and so sent an assassin to the Badlands as insurance that he dies and is not worshiped himself. That's just my speculation though.

[@NoConsequenc3]

@@MMMM-vq1yr he probably just died upon return and was reborn like everyone else, through the tree.

[@soarel325]

You put the Elden Ring back together in all but one of the endings, the Beast is never actually killed outside of the Frenzied Flame ending. You immediately put it back together

[@soarel325]

@@MMMM-vq1yr But Marika was the one who banished him, not the Greater Will

[@MMMM-vq1yr]

@@soarel325 Yeah of course, but why? I was proposing initially it was motivated by the Greater Will but now that I think about it i think it might be Radagon who wanted Godfrey out of the picture and essentially told Marika 'I can either kill him or he can be banished, your choice'. After he was exiled he was possibly killed and crucified by assassins, presumably to insure his death and further uninvolvement in the lands -- at least until he arose once again. They genuinely seemed to love each other, so the fact that Marika banishes him comes across as inexplicable outside of her being self destructively selfish which I feel is a boring explanation. Again this is all my speculation and mostly head cannon.

[@riccardocirielli]

Maliketh sealed the Rune of death long before Godfrey was banished, the Golden Order was created after this very act

[@jonnymario771]

But how would they kill the giants if that happened before?

[@melkor_01]

@@jonnymario771 the battle against the giants was only because they could threat the golden order itself, since the flame of ruin could potentially burn the erdtree down, but the flame didn't fade away as it is eternal, so the golden order cursed the last fire giant to tend to the flame. So maybe the fire giants were killed in that battle bc they weren't influenced by the golden order since they had their own outer god, but this whole story is just too blurry and confusing, maybe there is a better explanation

[@jonnymario771]

@@melkor_01 My point is that there should be death in the lands between so the giants could be killed. But for sure they were a threat.

[@sharpfang]

@@jonnymario771 Seems like the rune was separated from the ring but in active use, Maliketh wasn't just sitting sealed in Farum Azula all that time, he actively fought in the wars.

[@godricskarsgard9038]

@@jonnymario771 Wasn't it that only those blessed with grace do not die (soul gets reborn in the erdtree)? Thats what makes the golden order special. Anyone opposed to the golden order would be graceless and die normally I think. The demigods we fight die for good because they lost their grace after their part in the Shattering war.

[@sjlee1789]

man i thought i was watching peaky blinders listening to Ranni speak. Her voice actor is such a good actress in real life too 10/10 recommend her other works

[@clfoster82]

For real, her voice acting is on POINT! She pronounces all of those olden words so wonderfully in her accent (which I assume is close to her natural accent).

[@AscendantStoic]

Prefect Order ending (of Golden Mask) also highlights the problems with the Golden Order that Golden Mask spent his life trying to fix, it's sort of the mirror image of Rani's ending thematically, where Ranni chooses to completely upend the Golden Order to start a completely new one order with new rules, Golden Mask attempts to recognize what's wrong with the Golden Order in order to fix it.

[@framesjanco117]

could you perhaps look into the “Deathbirds” and the strange connection to the “Godskin Apostles”?? obviously Black Flame and Ghost Flame look very similar (while doing the opposite of each other aka burn or freeze) the more I compare and read descriptions, it makes me believe that before the Erdtree, Death was controlled by the Twin Birds who was an envoy of an Outer God while the God Skin apostles led by the Gloam Eyed Queen served Destined Death. They even call the pale creatures of Nokron “hawks” as per the Ghost Flame torch. Hawks and Nox 🤔🧐

[@titchbits1]

I would watch your video on it :>)

[@BruceWaynesaysLandBack]

It’s not about strength. It’s about freedom. That was Ranni’s reason for accepting Marika’s plan- so that she could be free and destroy the hierarchy that kept her imprisoned. I can’t help but feel that Marika began to feel the same way- that the ossified hierarchies of the past were brittle. That the Golden Order was literally leeching off of the Lands Between and the larger world outside it.

[@oliverlarosa8046]

There's a fair amount that I would contest about the finer details of this theory, but the one thing I think is most important to recognize is when Destined Death was sealed. If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that the rune was sealed as part of a larger response to a weakening of the Erdtree, the other part of that response being The Long March of the Tarnished. However, it's more likely that the sealing of death occurred well before The Long March, toward the beginning of The Golden Order itself. Some of the evidence for this is that the sealing of death was what allowed for the system of Erdtree burial, which appears to be one of the tree's most crucial functions and a fundamental law of the Elden Ring's logic under the Golden Order. It wouldn't make any sense for the rune to have been removed as recently as Godfrey's departure.

[@picklefathernurgle2719]

One theory I've had for a while is that the Nox of the Eternal CIty, whose ancestors are the Numen people (presumable at least, since the game says that Marika is both a numen and that she's closely related/associated with the scions of the Eternal City) from which Marika and the Black Knife Assasins are descended, were once inhabitants of the great floating temple city in the sky. It would make sense for a race that so greatly worships the night and the stars like the Nox to have a floating city in the sky. But then, when the Elden Beast crashed in the golden star sent by the Greater Will, the city was struck and fell to the earth. This explains how Marika and the people of Leyndell have seemingly domesticated the golems that fell from the sky temple as well. Two are guarding the Lift of Dectus, and I doubt just anyone would be able to communicate with or control the golems unless were familiar with the manner in which they are controlled. Even if the Nox and their Numen ancestors aren't the remnants of the sky temple's inhabitants, they're still somehow able to control the ancient stone golems left over by the civilization that created them. Marika is likely at least a few hundred, if not over a thousand or so years old. I can see her being a survivor of the sky temple, investigating the comet that destroyed her people, finding the Elden Ring/Beast and then building her own nation out of the rubble. Then the Nox rebelled for whatever reason, though in my mind it's due to animosity surrounding the worship of the thing that destroyed their flying city. That or simply a religious difference since the Nox seemed to heavily venerate the stars and night itself, and likely refused to pray to the big shiny tree. Then they committed "blasphemy", got banished below ground and then hundreds of years later after Astel destroyed their civilization again, launched an attack on Marika and her regime out of resentment, only for Ranni who was manipulating them, to betray them and lock the plot's ringleader in a Gaol with the spirit of her dead daughter. The Nox/Numen just can't catch a break can they? Lol. This has George's DNA all over it: Characters suffering immeasurable tradgedy and unable to catch a break.

[@themursinary4233]

Yup this is exactly where I am at with it too!

[@aarndal90]

4:34 The Black Knife Assassins can become invisible through their magical veils... The Sentry's Torch and the Black Knife Armor give us this information. The armour with its veil, which we can acquire as players, has lost much of its power ("Traces of power yet remain in its concealing veil[...]"), which is why we cannot make ourselves invisible. This is also confirmed by the fact that if you remove the veil from the armour by altering it, the effect of "Muffle Sound" is also removed from it.

[@phillipmitchell2254]

Well, "another world" could mean less in the scifi sense and more in the Norse Mythology sense, neighboring planes. The Lands Between feels a lot like some kind of metaphor for purgatory or limbo.

[@InternetHydra]

When I heard the name for the first time I promptly thought of Things Betwixt, which served as a dimensional gateway to Drangleic. And think also of Ash Lake, long theorized as a kind of crossroads between worlds. It's safe to say that when the recurring image of looming pillars surrounding you appears, you're in a place that defies dimensional limits.

[@phillipmitchell2254]

@@InternetHydra Yeah exactly, nothing in these worlds is as it is in this one. They are a fundamental reality apart altogether, and everything's a metaphor.

[@nostalji93]

The concept isn't unique to Norse Mythology. You find it in almost every religion. You just gave two examples which originate from christian religion/mythology.^^

[@phillipmitchell2254]

@@nostalji93 and those were based on concepts originating with pagan Canaanite polytheism, Zoroastrianism, etc. Your point?

[@nostalji93]

@@phillipmitchell2254 "The concept isn't unique to Norse Mythology." Yours?

[@felixgauer2447]

I would like to point out that during the time of the marriage of Renala and Radagon, somebody found the Order of the Knights of the Cuckoo. Cuckoos lay their eggs in other birds nests which is a great image for Radagon infiltrating the Carian families to give birth to Ranni, all according to Marikas plan.

[@khandimahn9687]

Yes, you, the Tarnished, have choice. But I think only the Moon & Stars ending is the one Marika intended. It lines up with what she and Ranni seemed to be working for - freeing the Lands Between from the influence of the Greater Will. The Frenzied Flame ending essentially destroys the world. The other endings result in a mended Elden Ring, which means just perpetuating the cycle she was trying to end. The real questions are why would Marika want to break the cycle? Why does it seem like Ranni was the only one she trusted with is plan? Why did she think it was so important she was willing to sacrifice her own children?

[@dominiklange8382]

I assume ... hope we get a Dusk Eyed Queen with DLCs which possible is in Marika's plans as well

[@hatzuling]

She probably just knew Ranni better during her time as Radagon. Don't forget Ranni is also in cahoots with Melina, evident by your (optional) first encounter with Ranni in the first church. Melina talks about her mother, and how she was given a task to guide you but doesn't remember the details. Then there's also the existence of Renna, another snow witch that Ranni pretends to be, who was Ranni's teacher of sorts. Ranni also gave Rykard that one thingy to fight against Maliketh. So all in all, it's not outside the realm of possibility that Marika planned this with Ranni, Melina, Rykard, and maybe even Renna. We never see Renna in the game, but the snow witch set and Renna's Rise gives credibility to her existence and importance.

[@hypername1]

At the very least, the goldmask ending results in a substantial change for the better

[@ronwisegamgee]

According to Melina, it seems that Marika divests and confers others of their grace, not the Greater Will. On Marika's successors, Rykard and Radahn were not said to be Empyreans (viable candidates of godhood after Marika). The Empyreans are Ranni, Miquella, and Malenia. As for Radagon, I believe that he started off as separate from Marika and, at some point, got merged with Marika (possibly by the Greater Will) as a way to hinder her plans to go against the will of the Greater Will. She shatters the Elden Ring, he attempts to mend it. She confers the Tarnished with the sight of grace so that they may make their way to the base of the Erdtree, he blocks their path with a barrier of impenetrable thorns bearing his criss-cross golden pattern. He fights the Tarnished, the Tarnished (or Ranni) put her back together after defeating the Elden Beast. Radagon is the agent of the Golden Order, and Marika is the enemy of the Golden Order. As for Marika's ultimate goal, I think all except for the Lord of Frenzied Flame fit her agenda. With the Elden Lord endings, she is put back together after the Elden Beast has been defeated. With the Age of Stars ending, she is finally put to rest knowing that the Greater Will's influenced has been decisively defeated. But with the Lord of Frenzied Flame, like the Tarnished, her head crumbles to dust and she, like the rest of the Lands Between, is doomed. Perhaps she had Melina as a contingency in the event of the Lord of Frenzied Flame, Melina would deliver Destined Death unto them.

[@yemeniwarcriminal8426]

I don’t think the perfect golden order ending fits her agenda simply because it removes the meddling of all gods. Which includes herself, just my two cents.

[@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx]

@@yemeniwarcriminal8426 Perfect Golden Order is Radagon's Ending.

[@thedoomslayer5863]

Let's be real maiden one eyed girl would be BODIED by us. If she was the gloam eyed queen she got bodied by maliketh whom we bodied. Melina ain't ready for that fight lol she's gonna get railed

[@yemeniwarcriminal8426]

@@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx it’s goldmasks

[@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx]

@@yemeniwarcriminal8426 And also the Brother Corryn.

[@Ookamisieshin]

There's an extremely well-hidden source of lore I found that adds some interesting details to the whole game... whether or not you take it as canon is up to you though. In an article on the game in October of 2021 Bandai Namco, the game's publisher, says this: "The assassins’ targets were multifold, but none was as devastating a loss to the Eternal Queen as that of Godwyn the Golden. After his death, the Elden Ring was somehow shattered, and the order of the world broke with it." There is more to read in the article as well such as the talk of Marika's other god-kin lost in the Night of Black Knives implying that many demi-gods once existed and were slain during the attack, but this one sentence here makes things so much more complicated if we take as canon commentary by the game's publisher. Marika was devastated by Godwyn's death... It's certainly possible she had him slain and felt remorse all the same; Thanos certainly did in Infinity War so its not exactly a foreign concept for an antagonist character to behave in this way. But it does make you question things at least a little.

[@mac1bc]

There was only one other demigod who died that night when Godwin did. It was believed to be Ranni, well her body.

[@NoConsequenc3]

the others that died are the Headless Knights - they are headless because they served Godwyn and were killed that night as well. Source: My ass

[@mac1bc]

@@NoConsequenc3 lol nice

[@nemecil]

​@@mac1bc Makes me wonder; why is the body of Ranni found in the Liurnia Divine Tower? Was her corpse moved there possibly? If so, by whom? The Black Knives? Or did the death of her Empyrean body happened atop that tower? So many questions...

[@tanjeeschuan4999]

There were definitely alot more demigods in the past. Especially where the Godskins get their skin

[@t-shirtedhistorian]

The one thing you didn't mention: Melina. Melina was also a child of Marika, an Empyrean. Melina was the Gloam-Eyed Queen who created the Godskin Apostles and the blackflame. Possibly Melina was a failed first attempt by Marika. Melina says that she was given her purpose by her mother, Marika. and Melina as the Gloam-Eyed Queen was to end the gods and burn the erdtree, but was defeated by Malekith and left burned and bodiless. There's evidence that Radagon and Marika though shared of one body are not the same being in mind. Radagon's symbols are the lattice lines, which you will see cover the entrance to the Erdtree after you defeat Morgott. Radagon is a supporter of the Golden Order. He is content to enforce the power of the Greater Will and it's his tyranny that created the laws that shackled or killed the Omens, tried to eliminate the crucible knights as well as enslaved the Misbegotten who are a reminder of the crucible.

[@dagoth77]

One thing to note is that Godwyn would not have been a friend to the Golden Order as his name would suggest. He befriended Fortisaxx and founded the ancient dragon cult, so he would actually be going directly against the Golden Order (also very close to Miquella, who opposes the order). I think Marika wanted to kill Godwyn and give him a true death (with Destined Death) before the Greater Will could send him to the Erdtree. Maybe Ranni used this to her advantage so that she only died in spirit, seeing as the Black Knives kill Iji and attempt to kill Blaidd after her quest. I think Marika's plan was to aid Miquella against the Greater Will, seeing as Black Knives guard the entrance to the Hailgtree. This is just what I came up with, there are of course other interpretations. Cheers.

[@juniebugbear]

The ancient dragon cult actually does not go against the golden order, there are several in game references to this. So Godwyn as far as we know was still loyal to the golden order

[@andrewsalman9014]

When I conceptualize what the Lands Between are... between... I think it's vertical, not horizontal. Below are the eternal cities (of which we see three, but are never told conclusively are the only three), and above are the other planets, meteors, etc. where we know life exists.

[@letsgitcrackin]

🤘🏿🤘🏿🤘🏿

[@halss51]

Underrated comment in that sense, maybe farum azula and the lands of the giants are considered "above" the lands between?

[@UnifiedEntity]

You know what would impress me? Like truly by these games? Actual freaking answers.

[@thisisnotacryforhelp5800]

I think there's one crucial piece of the plan left out of this video - Melina. As you said in your Gloam-Eyed Queen video, she is the bearer of the Rune of Death. I believe that she was the little spark that floated into your hand at the start of the game. She's with you even before you're given Torrent, as seen after you die in the Chapel of Anticipation. Someone (probably Ranni or Marika) sent the shard of the Rune of Death used in the Night of the Black Knives to your maidenless corpse, granting you new life and the ability to kill demigods. Your possession of this shard is what allows Melina to appear before you, but only in a limited capacity. She lacks her full power because you only possess a small fragment of her great rune. Additionally, this means you are more than a tarnished of no renowned - you are the chosen deliverer of destined death. That's why you're capable of killing unkillable demigods when all others before you have failed. Marika needed you to gather the great runes and kill her because literally nobody else could do it.

[@jungtothehuimang]

I really like your lore videos in particular, you tie things together than I honestly never even thought of before. Lately I have been really into the lore surrounding Marika and Godfrey in particular so I am really enjoy this video.

[@michaelkennedy2888]

Random, but I don't agree that Godrick's great rune is "the best". It's definitely the best in the early game but in late game Radahn's or Morgott's great runes are much better because of how attribute scaling works at higher levels. You'll get wayyyy more defence / utility from these in late game than the minuscule buff that Godrick's great rune gives.

[@c1nnabun]

I think this was the most thorough, elaborate, yet concise video you’ve made Jake. After watching lore videos since release, and deep diving into your channel, only now is everything starting to make sense. Great job on this video!

[@NoBody-fh7ko]

The scariest part is when Gideon says she has high hopes that they will all continue to struggle and fight for the Erdtree for eternity. This is either him after he found a way to directly commune with Marika, or just strung together the lore and realized her intentions.

[@NoConsequenc3]

Marika wants change and new strength - you cannot be All-Knowing if new things are created and old things lost forever. Every single ending favors what Marika wants - except one. The 3 Fingers would burn it all and start again - Gideon doesn't want this either. Gideon WANTS stagnation, it's the only thing that would put someone like himself on top

[@Ale-dd3ek]

​@@NoConsequenc3 hold on I don't think the 3 fingers want to Simply start over The want to end existence and bring back the One great If Life comes back Is because the Greater Will tries again

[@spiralistichope9216]

A missing piece of evidence here that I feel should be mentioned when contemplating Marika's designs against the Greater Will and her plot and desire for change is that she outright wanted to slay a god! The references in the Roundtable Hold are aplenty in regard to this, especially with Gideon who we eventually confront over the possibility of it occurring, but the actual most vital figure in all this is Hewg, who Marika actively forced to swear an oath to forge a weapon to slay her, a goddess, so that the Elden Ring that she initially shattered could finally be entirely destroyed and reformed. In many ways, she wanted the chosen Tarnished, the player (or any Tarnished guided by her Grace and stakes), to finish the job she began, even at the expense of her own existence, and Hewg was thus forced to become a captive blacksmith of the Hold and carry out her secret will. Of course, Melina also is likely carrying out her will as her hidden daughter, but that's another topic entirely, though I think it most certainly connects directly to Marika's grand design considering Melina's role as the Kindling Maiden.

[@Kodiamoso]

I dunno if anyone has mentioned this but the mimics that can turn into semi-tarnished in the eternal city are numen if I'm correct, or at least they look that way. Plus the nox are also very similar looking to numen and have been confirmed to have been around since nokron was still truly a city because the puppets of them you can find were some of the first original, willingly puppet-ized beings, and that implies nokron/nokstella also perfected the art of Puppeteering.. which seluvis somehow revived. Plus, he asks for Starlight shards, which were used in the eternal cities as "intoxicating draughts", which means likely to sum up that A) the mimics that become like Tarnished but incomplete look numen (or maybe dragonkin or something like that) in nature and B) the nox are also related to the numen going WAY back somehow. They may even be the descendants of numen for all I know lore wise

[@berylman]

Great video! The lore of this game is so inscrutably complex making it so ripe for speculation. Admirable job at putting the jigsaw puzzle back together

[@RENDAN_iel]

Couldn’t numen also be from underground in the eternal cities if it refers to “underground” in Japanese? This would also tie in with the rumors of black knives being scions of the eternal city like rogier says.

[@lionheart4424]

It makes sense since it appears that all human enemies in both Nokron and Nokstella are female (except for the Cleymen).

[@RENDAN_iel]

@@lionheart4424 I think the monks with mix hammer are male but they’re the only ones ☝🏼

[@ailaxl]

Perhaps Numen was the Nameless City? Marika saw what the GW could do, and after being forced to become it's champion, began secretly plotting a way to rid the world of the Outer Gods.

[@jamesbenedict7516]

Or a possible reference to Numenor. J.R.R. Martin did contribute to the lore too.

[@MeneltirFalmaro]

The Numen that came to the Lands Between with Marika were probably banished either due to some early transgression (before even the Fingerslayer Blade) or just to avoid potential trouble from Marika's kin being around. They ended up settling underground in ruins of previous civilizations, and plotting against the Greater Will (again), several times.

[@shm1883]

Queen Marika is such a complex character.. Loved the lore video.. I really hope someone makes a single lengthy lore video of entire elden ring! That will be quite something to watch.. It will truly become an epic audiobook to listen to.. !

[@sir2bot2]

I think that name of the world itself gives us a clue into things. "The Lands Between" is a very distinct name which can be taken both literally and metaphorically. We could be set in a "purgatory" type land that exists between two other planes of existence. Or we could in a literal sense be an island that sits between other major islands/lands in the world. It is likely this will get explored further in dlc. Maybe Miquella pulls us into another plane of existence / land to try and get us to help him in achieving his long term goals.

[@TheSpoartsNetwork]

player IS Miquella :p

[@ComradeOgilvy369]

As much as they liken Miquella to Griffith they'd better not miss that opportunity (seemingly stouthearted and unnaturally seductive, but effeminate male authority figure that is in one way or another associated with an "eclipse", enters a cocoon, and comes out some terrible death God)

[@christopheremrick8350]

I like to think that The Lands Between exist in the plane between player worlds in the Souls universe, ala Solaire's first conversation in DS1. But then I'm also the kind of conspiracy theorist who thinks that Bloodborne is the painted world that was painted with the Blood of the Dark Soul in DS3.

[@TheSpoartsNetwork]

@@ComradeOgilvy369 the player character even has the dung eater taking a liking to him, hmmmm. you can also wield any weapon and beat any opponent just like miquella. HMMMM

[@SirZipper]

"Pulls you inside egg" this is your new home now, Tarnished.

[@purnamameda5045]

I think the timeline of events should be quite like this: - Marika, a Numen, entered The Lands Between and was chosen by the Greater Will to be its Empyrean ruler. She married Hoarah Lux aka the biggest badass in the land and had Godwyn. But then Morgott and Mohg were born as Omens, which could be seen as a portent of disaster - Fearing the future, Marika stole the Destined Death and gave it to Maliketh so that her new family won't die. This is likely something that goes against the Greater Will, so it sent Radagon, Marika's more agreeable male half, to Raya Lucaria for its secrets. - Before departing to Raya Lucaria, Marika left a contingency plan for Godfrey and his tarnished. She tell them to live outside the realm and die, returning to the Lands Between and just end her suffering. The purpose of banishing them is to keep them away from the Greater Will's influence - Radagon then married Rennala but left her soon after Ranni was born. Likely Radagon married Rennala as ordered by the Greater Will to find a way to create new Empyreans (beings created through a single god) and ultimately, replace Marika. Ranni is his first successful attempt. So Ranni is probably not Rennala's actual child, but born from Radagon/Marika with Rennala's Greater Rune of The Unborn acting as a womb. He doesn't need it anymore so he gave it to Rennala 'as a gift' - But then both Radagon/Marika's child Miquella and Malenia came out imperfect. One can't grow old and the other is afflicted with scarlet rot. Marika's mental state further declines - The final nail though is when Ranni refuses her Empyrean status, steals a fragment of the Destined Death, kill his older half-brother's soul, and burn her own body. This made Marika snap and destroys the Elden Ring. Her children each took a fragment and wage war against each other. Rykard have an ax to grind against gods and the Erdtree, which is an understandable response to having his dad leaving his mom for this god-woman skank Marika from Leyndell I guess. Radahn just wants to pick fights. Mohg kidnapped Miquella in the confusion for his own ends and Morgott had to step up and defend the Erdtree even if nobody likes him. Godwyn's descendant Godrick is a pest, challenging Malenia and lost so badly he ran away and tried to graft people and other ill omened creatures to his own body for more power. In between all this, Melina was created for a purpose that she can't remember. Maybe her mission was to kill all of Marika/Radagon's children, as someone who carries the will of the Rune of Death. Then she met the player character.

[@NoConsequenc3]

"tried to graft people and other ill omened creatures to his own body for more power." Considering he's the son of Godwyn, whos spirit was slain for its subservience to the Greater Will by Ranni, I think it's very interesting the similarity between Godrick's grafting and the Greater Will's ability to incorporate other systems into itself. In a way, it's a sign that the Greater Will here is the weakest of all options presented in the game. For example Rot and Death spread across the land basically unimpeded by the Greater Will, with Death even going so far as to use the roots of the Tree itself. I think The Prince of Death is a literal thing, and that the slaying openned his body to influence of an Outer God of Death.

[@SauceCurator]

After defeating Godfrey I felt Victorious Hate towards him then when he told me my strength befits a crown I oddly felt profound respect to the fallen warrior

[@DevinCathcartSince94]

Awesome video! Started playing this game just cause my friend convinced me to play with him. It was such a frustrating game, between constantly dying and not understanding anything in the story. I almost stopped playing it before even reaching Godrick lol. But now I find myself listening to your videos, and others like yours, while I drive around for work. I’ve come to love the gameplay and love the lore even more, in part because of your videos. Keep it up man!

[@agtjake]

Great to hear Devin! I was the same way when I started. Now I’m a lifetime fan :)

[@FlickeringStatic]

I have never played this game, but I've spent several hours watching videos on its fascinating lore. It's not easy reading either, from what I hear.

[@AuratticStride]

I think you're definitely right on several counts - and I would speculate further. It's interesting that ALL of radagon and Rennala's children are heretics (rykard fed himself to the serpent, radahn froze the fate and stars , and ranni abandoned her empyrean flesh). I think that all points to this being Marika's design, either because she planned to bring the children into being through radagon, or she made them hate the golden order by calling radagon back after they were born.

[@RulerX.]

I don’t think this theory is right because Marika was already dissolution with the golden order/greater will and the death of godwyn was the breaking point of marika. It is also implied that radagon and marika were two different entities and I think the GW made radagon marry/merge with marika so that he can keep her in place because marika was doubting the GW.

[@tiltedelf6105]

no bro you're wrong and you have nothing to support your theorie. While this video shows ingame evidence like echoes and item discriptions bro

[@RulerX.]

@@tiltedelf6105 but there are in game proof, in one of the churches Melina says from the echo of marika “My lord and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace. With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the lands between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where you will live, and die… Then after thy death I will give back what I once claimed. Returned to the lands between, wage war, and brandish the elden ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey” see how she calls Godfrey “lord”, meaning that she love him but the GW made her banished him, however marika knows that they will come back to claim the elden ring. It is said that Godfrey was banished before the shattering, so she knew what was going to happened. The GW knew this and made radagon marry her.

[@RulerX.]

@@tiltedelf6105 and marikas echos speak of radagon with disdain, in the queen chambers Melina says from the echos of queen marika “O radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou’rt yet to become me, thou’rt yet to become a god. Let us both be shattered, mine other half” meaning that both were two separate beings and only merge because of the GW. It is also said that radagon hated his red hair and that is because red hair comes from the giants and it could imply that he is also part giant. That may be a reason why rhadan is so big.

[@mayhemivory5730]

@@RulerX. on radagons red hair: it stated its "a curse of their kind", but you should read that as "as curse BY their kind". radagon after all shared none of the anatomical features of giants; no face in his chest, no hole were one might have been. he hated that he looked like a giant, but he wasnt one himself.

[@MichaelChapmanArt]

I think when you become a consort, you get graphed with the one that chooses you.

[@phobosromulus]

I like the idea of Raya Lucaria having no stakes of Marika- but mechanically in-game, none of the legacy dungeons have stakes in them.

[@vitorvena]

I heavily believe Marika is much more than the general opinion people have of her... this video is a good video on connecting the dots to truly understand the grand scheme she probably orchestrated!

[@bighuffs]

Your lore videos are so good dawg, been watching for a while now and idk why you get so much hate. People gotta relax fr

[@simonjohnson3424]

Marika being behind most of the story is probably my favorite theory because it's interesting and also really well supported

[@caseyp3879]

No one ever mentions the pieces of meteorite that are built into the tops of all the divine towers

[@NoConsequenc3]

feel free

[@BlackXSunlight]

I love your analysis, as it matched up so much with my own up until near the end. I actually think what Gideon tells us about how we’re never meant to reach the seat of Elden Lord and Marika is encouraging an endless cycle, followed right after by Melina’s reflection on Marika’s feelings toward Godfrey, and then Godfrey’s actual appearance right after that and his dialogue about returning home to his rightful place, something clicked for me. Marika wanted to be free of the Greater Will, and of course needed allies who weren’t bound by the constraints of the Golden Order: allies like Ranni, which is why she’d help her in her quest to flee her own flesh. But you know who else was outside the influence of the Greater Will? Her beloved Godfrey, and his army, whom she stripped of the guidance of Grace to make them the first Tarnished, their movements and motivations invisible to any of the Two Fingers. We, the players, aren’t meant to get as far as we get, because we’re bait, a decoy for the Greater Will. Her plan was to put her man in reserves to cook while she went to work leveraging chaos and conflict to chip away at the Greater Will’s power over her, concluding with the shattering of the Elden Ring. And when we find her, Marika is on her last leg in her prison, finally losing out to Radagon for control, when Godfrey would’ve arrived just in time according to her plan-if we hadn’t delayed him with our battle, and slain him. I also agree that Marika’s betrayal to Maliketh was in stealing the Rune of Death for Ranni, as part of the plan. However, I think she was shocked that it would turn her son into what he became, so the end results were not expected.

[@MrCrownedClown]

The cinematic to Radagons fight makes it pretty clear I think that Radagon and Marika do not have seperate bodies but share the same. So in my opinion the whole Radagon Marika dynamics feels much more like a split personality.

[@TheMidWave]

the game has a bunch of ties and themes with alchemy and seeing how marika physically changes before your eyes from female with blonde hair to male with red hair it would make more sense for her to be a Rebis rather than have a split personality.

[@MrCrownedClown]

@@washada that could be another possibility yes. I interprete the whole story from Marika's side this way: She is whole at the begining. She becomes suspicious of the greater will. She seperates the part of her person that is loyal to the greater will into Radagon. Who at this point is his own person and does not know he is Marika (dialog Melina Marika's bedchambers). Marika plots against the greater will when she is Marika and fights and marries rennala when she is Radagon (again split personalities both do not know what the other is doing). The greater will becomes suspicious and radagon is taken back to the capital. Now one half of her personality looks over the other(radagon over Marika). She shatters the elden ring. The greater will puts Radagon permanently in Charge of the body. But this my personal head cannon. That there were two bodies that got Fused together does work with the given information as well.

[@poijnve3912]

@@MrCrownedClown but there is a conversation between marika and radagon before she satthered the ring, she directly told radagon (who has just arrived) that he should join her into bein satthered... i dotn think radgon is a split personality, since he has his own body (after all he was curse with red hair)

[@sethruttkay8368]

Pretty sure they were separate bodies and eventually fused.

[@seliamila1005]

Yeah seems like split personality, there's no Radagon before Marika and their action mirroring each other

[@kaiser5731]

"goes down honorably" *proceeds to double river of blood him*

[@tekarthobbyist9598]

3:40 so now i guess ,'another world' has been clarified by the DLC right

[@CoFGillesdeRais]

Correct! She’s from the hinterlands at the land of shadow

[@qwqwqwqw99]

I'm nearly in disbelief at how much detail was put into this game's lore. From item descriptions, decorations, npc dialogue, landscape and beyond. It's hard to wrap my head around planning out so many elements.

[@somjayguha]

Ranni's ending is the Bestest ending because Marika hedges on it. Marika shows that within the shiny golden veneer lies the rot and poison of the Greater will and the Fingers syndicate . Love this Game.

[@anasomaireen5803]

It's amazing how your videos evolved with time. It feels like even though this video is so good but it needs a remaster.

[@malleableconcrete]

I think this is a fundamental misreading of what the betrayal refers to in relation to Maliketh and Marika. The thing is, we know that Marika had Maliketh lock away destined death within his body after it had already been stolen. Everything to do with Maliketh's alter ego as Beast Clergyman Gurranq and his gorging himself on deathroot can only make sense in the context of Godwyn having been killed already and the rune of death having already been stolen. This means that Maliketh would have been punished by Marika regardless of the fact that, if it was her plan to begin with, she would have had to have the Rune of death stolen from Maliketh. Why would she go through the trouble of humiliating Maliketh and punishing him, forcing him into this role with the rune of death bound into his flesh if she had wanted all this to happen in the first place and had actually organised it? The damage was already done, Godwyn and Ranni had their respective half-deaths. If anything, it seems to suggest that the Rune of Death was only seriously kept under lock and key after the night of the black knives had already occurred, its implied that Maliketh was a bit cavalier in his wielding of the rune prior to this, so the night actually prompted a more serious clampdown on the spread of and control of death within Marika's empires. If we kill Maliketh as Gurranq he says the following: "Marika...why...wouldst thou...gull me? Why...shatter..." This I think is what reveals what the betrayal really was, it wasn't to steal away destined death to give to Ranni, it was the very act of the shattering in and of itself. And it makes sense if you think about it, Maliketh took his punishment like a man, he took his supposed failure super seriously, he went to extreme lengths to seal away destined death within his own body and seek out and consume the deathroot since then, this was all under the watchful eye of Marika. He thought he had failed her with the death of Godwyn and as a result endeavoured to never let her down again. But instead she lets him down. He did whatever it took to help Marika maintain the Golden Order and to follow her commands to keep the system in place for all, and then she turns around and shatters the Elden Ring, throwing away everything that he had suffered to help protect? After she had already punished him for his failings in upholding the order, she then goes and destroys it much more thoroughly than anyone could ever imagine? That's a heart wrenching betrayal from his point of view, all of his pain and anguish is rendered meaningless as Marika essentially decides to flush the entire system down the toilet despite having had Maliketh suffer horrendously to protect that system. I think her action makes most sense as a result of a nihilistic grief that she was feeling over Godwyn. I agree that she wanted to throw off the Greater Will but I don't think she planned for any of the stuff to do with Ranni and Godwyn, I think instead it ruined whatever plans she had for the future and as a result she decided to just try to destroy it all, with no consideration for anything else, particularly Maliketh.

[@mayhemivory5730]

yea, marikas shattering of the elden ring seems much more like a panic reaction than anything else. i‘m not quite sure on the order of things myself though. it might be: rune of death stolen from the black blade -> malineth seals the rune in his body -> godwyn is killed -> marika shatters the ring. i feel like that is also possible; it would at least not leave such a gap in which marika just .. waits and does nothing? like, she has to order maliketh to collect the splinters of the rune before she breaks the ring; but it would feel really weird if she calmly ordered him to do that after godwyn was killed. tbh when i first played through the game, i thought she shattered the elden ring because destined death had been released. godwyns death is like the beginning of the end; so she destroys the order that states that the first death should lead to an end.

[@jakobos93]

I can‘t get over the fact how my Godwyn was used like a damn puppet by his own family.

[@Arucaurd]

I want to propose an alternative: When Marika split herself into Marika and Radagon, she imbued him with the desire to be perfect and to be subject to the Law of Regression. Marika was no longer subject to that tenet of the Law of Regression, and all of her actions from that point onward serve as a form of division as opposed to unity. She seperated Radagon from herself in a bid to seduce Renala and defeat the Carians, the only force they couldn't beat, plucked death's rune from the Elden Ring, she banished her shadow, she removed grace from her first husband and sent him away, she shattered the elden ring and gave runes to her descendants so they would go to war. Radagon is the part of Marika that sought unity always. He married Renala in a move that tied Caria and Leyndell politically, while also leaving her with a curse in the form of the amber egg that sees her abandon her people and leave them unable to become a threat to the Golden Order. He studies sorcery and Incantations, and his specific spells all require both int and faith. He returns to marry Marika, which is often described as becoming of one flesh, and literally shares Marika's body. He also attempts to repair the Elden Ring that was shattered. Radagon tries everything he can to become more perfect and to separate himself from Renala and Caria to form more perfectly to his source in Marika and the Golden Order as the embodiment of the law of regression. He left Renala in a broken state, may have been absent in Renala's childrens' lives compared to his relationship with Miquella (though that soured), he hated the red hair that reminded him he was not yet Marika, he reformed his marriage gift from Renala, the Moonlight Greatsword, into the Golden Order Greatsword. He even refuses to use sorceries when you fight him. Also, he is the one trying to prevent you from becoming elden lord, not Marika, because the Elden Lord always becomes King Consort. Meaning he would lose some form of union with Marika.

[@justhaku9240]

This is now one of my favorite videos you've made

[@Mr_Sim]

The "shattering" is not refering to the broken Elden Ring, but to the War of the demigods who want to claim parts of the Elden ring AFTER it was broken. So the intro dosen't tell why Marika broke the Elden ring, but why demigods have triggered a war AFTER this event. This is a little confusing but I think that is the truth.

[@tinminator8905]

I agree with this. Every time they refer to the Elden Ring being shattered they outright say those exact words or: "Marika shattered the Elden Ring". Every time they talk about the Shattering war they say the Shattering. I don't see why there would be an inconsistency just in the intro cutscene. Everything else in the video I agree with though.

[@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx]

@@tinminator8905 Shattering can also correlate to the destruction of harmony or alliance between the demigods.

[@NoConsequenc3]

The Shattering is both the literal shattering AND the conflict that followed. You're wrong.

[@Mr_Sim]

@@NoConsequenc3 tell me why

[@zyanlayrit5895]

ok cool *becomes the lord of frenzied flame*

[@pteroid11]

It does occur to me also that Godwyn was the most beloved Demigod. So if he was around it’s entirely possible most if not all the Lands Between would’ve rallied to him (to say nothing of his friendship with the dragons) meaning the Shattering wouldn’t have gone the way Marika required.

[@IbnEmadAlmouaibed]

“Change for the better 😢” Me: mmmmm yellow flames

[@Luckydude1]

your content is amazing can you do one lore video for malekith if not already

[@agtjake]

Maliketh and Farum Azula are next on my list 👍

[@Luckydude1]

@@agtjake can’t wait

[@RazielDark]

Elden Ring lore is so good, i daresay it's almost richier as stories from books.

[@robinjaubert389]

What if, on the contrary, Marika just wanted to reinforce the greater will and the Erdtree ? As you said, there were no battles to be fought, Godfrey and his people lost the guidance of grace and the Erdtree. Marika could have just set a plan in motion to induce endless struggling for endless Erdtree food by sealing Destined Death, shattering the Elden Ring and flaunting the Shards in the face of the demigods so they would fight each other for power (since I haven't gone far in the game, I'm still not sure about the difference between the Elden Ring, the Shards and the Great Runes). She got rid of the biggest thorn on her side, Destined Death, by entrusting it to "her very shadow, incapable of treachery"; she and Radagon had children on both sides who were likely to be power-hungry due to their status ; and she then poked the hornets' nest by fracturing the elden ring. Otherwise, I don't understand why the Greater Will wouldn't manifest the Elden Beast before to put a stop to all of this. Did it find personal interest in Marika's treason or could it simply not do anything at all at this time ? Anyway, very interesting video and keep up the good work

[@michaelk4480]

It seems the Elden Beast did manifest and eventually stop her. One of its attacks exactly mirrors the pose she’s in when we find her, held up by the crescent and with one of its spears in her body.

[@vqhaa]

Wowowow

[@trnrred489]

Marika literally says she no longer has happy days of blind belief in the golden order, and is going to try to figure out it’s inner workings. Then she destroys the elden ring, and causes all the events of the game. It’s directly showing us that she turned against the golden order/elden beast. She is working against the tree.

[@robinjaubert389]

@@trnrred489 I don't disagree with you, this plan can go both way. I just can't shake the feeling that, for a carefully crafted plan, there's too much gambling involved. First, Marika needs someone with strong resolve, freedom and ideals like Ranni to be born in her divine family. And preferably as soon as possible, since, just like with Godrick, her blood is quicky diluted and doesn't produce strong enough offsrings. And the fact that she is counting on the Tarnished to change the status quo is also too much of a gamble in my opinion : only the age of stars, the frenzy flame and the dungeater endings are really changing the lands between and the way it's working. If the new elden lord decides to reunite the Elden Ring or just add the rune of death to it, nothing will really change and Marika would have failed

[@trnrred489]

@@robinjaubert389 that’s just it. It wasn’t a carefully crafted plan lol. She was desperate. It was literally her, vs the entire golden order, and an outer god who is part of her. She said gone are the days of blissful and blind belief. Meaning the days when she blindly trusted the golden order are past. Now she will look into the golden order, and see if it’s actually “good”. The. The next step she takes is to destroy the elden ring. We have no idea why she made any of the descisions or if she had a plan. All we do know for sure is that she stopped having faith in the elden beast. Looked into it to learn about it, then broke the ring. That’s all we know. You’re implying that there was some big master plan. I’m saying that could be the case, or things went out of control, and she just did the best she could with what she had. We don’t know yet.

[@bestelite223]

Dude I am so happy I discovered you I really wanna understand this stuff and have been struggling, but watching you is satisfying this is my first vid and I wanna say keep it up I love your content your remind me of a youtuber name fungo who gave bloodborn theory that was really insane. Thank you for making this please make more theory on other games! If you haven't done bloodborne that's a req off the bat lol

[@soulslasher7890]

Just to add to the evergrowing web of alliances between demigods: 1) We know that Ranni and Rykard had shadowy dealings as they plotted to steal Destined Death, see the Blasphemous Claw: "On the night of the dire plot, Ranni rewarded Praetor Rykard with these traces. Should the coming trespass one day transpire, they would serve as a last-resort foil, allowing Rykard to challenge Maliketh the Black Blade, the black beast of Destined Death." Could this mean Marika interacted with Rykard at some point? 2) W̶e̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶'̶m̶o̶o̶n̶l̶i̶g̶h̶t̶'̶ ̶a̶l̶t̶a̶r̶s̶ ̶s̶c̶a̶t̶t̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶c̶r̶o̶s̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶l̶d̶.̶ ̶I̶n̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶o̶p̶i̶n̶i̶o̶n̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶s̶y̶m̶b̶o̶l̶i̶z̶e̶ ̶s̶e̶c̶r̶e̶t̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶s̶h̶i̶p̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶M̶o̶o̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶O̶r̶d̶e̶r̶.̶ ̶W̶e̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶c̶e̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶M̶o̶o̶n̶l̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶A̶l̶t̶a̶r̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶m̶i̶n̶e̶n̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶C̶a̶e̶l̶i̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶,̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶c̶i̶f̶i̶c̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶s̶i̶d̶e̶ ̶R̶e̶d̶m̶a̶n̶e̶ ̶C̶a̶s̶t̶l̶e̶.̶ ̶W̶h̶o̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶C̶a̶e̶l̶i̶d̶?̶ ̶W̶h̶o̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶R̶e̶d̶m̶a̶n̶e̶ ̶C̶a̶s̶t̶l̶e̶?̶ ̶R̶a̶d̶a̶h̶n̶.̶ ̶C̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶R̶a̶d̶a̶h̶n̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶e̶c̶r̶e̶t̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶?̶ ̶ EDIT: #2 is incorrect. Radahn is 100% on the side of the Golden Order. I guess Radahn was dad's favorite kid. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaphe#/media/File:Sundial_from_Madain_Saleh.JPG ^Here is the 'sundial' in real life. Its inventor, Aristarchus of Samos, created the first known model that placed the sun at the center of the known universe. Pretty interesting from a lore perspective...

[@ashencometmom5291]

the astrolabes are just a way to study the stars, theyre not inherently objects of worship. the carian astrolabe in radahn's castle proves that he managed to do what he did because he grew up as a carian royal and knew exactly how to go about something as massive as halting the movement of the stars; it wasn't just his sheer magical prowess, but also his knowledge of how stars work

[@ematouk100]

Radahn was on the side of the golden order

[@soulslasher7890]

@@ashencometmom5291 Thank you, that makes a lot of sense. Was this from your own analysis or did you get this information from in-game/video?

[@ashencometmom5291]

@@soulslasher7890 it's just my take on it, the game doesn't tell you much about radahn aside from his nostalgia about childhood things like his horse and his town, or his desire to be a champion like godfrey or radagon

[@aminulhussain2277]

#2 Isn't incorrect, if you speak with Jerren and Iji before the Radahn festival you get dialogue implying Radahn had actually been allied with Ranni not the Golden Order.

[@victorsouza4554]

You can bet you ass I'm going to subscribe. I've been thirsting for lore and simping for Ranni for days now. This channel might help me with at least one of my needs.

[@complainingnerds]

The mimic tears were an attempt to forge a lord by the Eternal cities according to the ashes of the mimic tear maybe they succeeded hence radagon is marika

[@NoConsequenc3]

succeeding would 100% lead to them being wiped out by Radagon too if you consider it - there is no way he'd allow that to continue under The Golden Order and he is loyal to it to a fault.

[@MrGamis]

This game really showed me just how great a game truly can be. Gameplay - despite its difficulty, its replyability exists in the multitude of weapons, the expansive connected map, and the ability to rp and play this game however youd like. Mechanically - the combat system in this game is so intricate that entire channels are dedicated strictly to generating "broken builds" or taking part in pvp. Included in this is the PVE aspect where every fight feels like it could have stories written about it. Theyre colorful, difficult, but mostly fulfilling when you win. And finally, Lore - While the above would be entirely enough to make a game fun, they really take it to the next level with story telling. I remember popular streamer Ludwig stating, "theres like 1 hour of story in this game" and he could not be more wrong. The entirety of Elden Ring is a story, but not only that there are layers of "history" that provide explicative lore. To this day, there are still new discoveries being made of the lore. I liken this story truly to playing in a world like Narnia or LOTR where you will never truly understand everything in the story. This game can be enjoyed by everyone. From those who enjoy pvp, to those who just enjoy general gameplay experiences, to those who enjoy deep creative storytelling, and I hope more games attempt to create experiences like this in the future. ...but even if they dont its ok. This game will remain one of if not my favorite games of all time that I will always find myself coming back to.

[@michaelk4480]

Marika can be a Hebrew name meaning, “rebellious woman” and also “bitterness” both of which seem to perfectly describe her attitude towards the Two Fingers and Greater Will. However I don’t think Marika cast out Godfrey in spite or even against his will. He seems very much like a Goku character: he lives to fight the strongest foes so he can become stronger. Without strong foes he was miserable/ and, at this point, Marika was planning to go against the Greater Will. So she sent him away to fight in new lands (and become even stronger) with the promise that she will call them back when the time is right. In many games cut dialogue doesn’t necessarily mean much, but GRR Martin wrote the backstory years ago. While Miyazaki made the current story and cut content isn’t canon for our character’s journey, I think he remained faithful to Martin’s lore and so cut dialogue can give extra context for what Martin had originally written. There are cut voice lines from Godfrey (seemingly from shortly after the exile) where he tells the Tarnished who fought by his side to “Await the summons, it will call to thee one day.” He goes on to say, “O Elden Ring. Be ready, once it is shattered. Seek the Elden Ring, O Tarnished.” This very strongly indicates that Godfrey knew something of the plan. It was probably cut for being too obvious. Similarly the data dump of dialogue has an alternative dialogue for Hewg which is similar to what we get in game. However, it (starting with text id=213120000) goes: “Oh, finally! It’s complete! I’ve done it! A weapon to slay a god! Oh, you have my deepest gratitude. Thanks to you, my wish is granted. Now wield it and kill them. The demigods. And their god. Queen Marika herself wishes it so.” This line too was probably tweaked to be more ambiguous, but we have Hewg directly telling us that Marika tasked him with making a weapon to kill the demigods (her children) and their “god” (which could be the Elden Beast, Greater Will, and/or even herself). If the Greater Will is orchestrating conflict to feed off suffering (which I’m leaning more towards being the case and it provides a great counterbalance for the Three Fingers motivation), and Marika discovers this, it would make a lot of sense for her to want to destroy not only herself but any being capable of becoming an easy vessel for its designs.

[@Narrucci]

You're wrong about that Hebrew part. Maybe you meant 'Merida' מרידה. Which means rebellion. It's close but not that

[@AhzekAhrimanOne]

There are very very rare enemies in the game, I only seen two of them, the are black shades looking things, with yellow or white eyes, and are completely dark. They hide in the dark areas of the game, I am really wondering who are they, where they come from, maybe they are also from outside like a cosmic monsters.

[@kronicchriz]

Where at?

[@TheTimbs_]

Me kicking in the door with the seedbed curse: Congratulations, you played yourself.

[@mawsphore7072]

Hi, just letting you know that ranni's ending is heavily mistranslated according to some people(i'll let you do your google search), and in particular the "fear doubt and loneliness" part, is not right at all, what is actually said in the japanese text is more along the lines of ranni taking the elden ring and putting it far away so that no one in the lands between will ever have to interact with it, she doesnt want to plunge the world into fear doubt and loneliness, she actually says to the tarnished "and now let's go far away into fear doubt and loneliness (to rid the lands between of the power, and keep the gods away from the people basically, at the expense of being exiled in the stars all alone)" anyway great video as usual

[@NoConsequenc3]

fear, doubt, and loneliness is just the absence of Grace and the guiding of the Golden Order over the land. It's a bit like a religious person who has lost their faith - they are free of it, but now must do things themselves, they must welcome the fear, the doubt, and the loneliness in order to become strong in and of themselves, without outer influence.

[@macgyverade]

I love these lores and theories... It gets you thinking and the people who made this game can go anywhere from here with this story. Thank you for your content and continuous efforts with these awesome discussions and dissection of this incredible story

[@enokimaru]

It makes little sense to me that the demigods already had their great runes before the elden ring was materially shattered, the great runes are the things that form the ring and infact we need them to mend the shattered ring inside the erdtree

[@Haywire13]

This is a good point. I think it might have something to do with duality of the elden ring possibly existing in 2 (or more planes of existence). For instance, you have the round table hold you go back to with the 2 fingers which gets lit on fire later after melina does her thing and the "real" hold in leyndell with no fingers (and possibly never had them). Sort of like the 2 firelinks in DS3. It's possible that the elden ring exists in a singular piece in one realm but can be broken into separate pieces that make the whole in another. You could easily make a video comparing firelink in DS3 and the hold in Elden Ring. Or I completely misunderstand all of this.

[@NoConsequenc3]

I think there is a Spirit of the runes, and a Body of the runes. The Body is what you gain, and you need Rune Arcs to connect to the Spirit where the power is held, which is fractured in the Tree. Of course, canonically, the demigods would always be empowered as they haven't died, but upon death you have to reconnect the Body and Spirit to be granted a boon in the form of whatever that Rune is doing. This also explains why some Runes are obviously fucked up and broken, they are separated from the Spirit and open to influence from Outer Gods. The "new" Runes are almost certainly both Body and Spirit. I think Ranni somehow gave her Rune's Body to the moon itself, making it impossible for a Rune Arc to connect it again cause uh.... idk the wiki signal sucks or something

[@marystone860]

I JUST subbed. This popped up in my recommended feed, and I just had to click! Thanks for the GREAT vid man!

[@ASAP_Kenny]

I love this games story because I can’t tell if I should respect or hate Marika. We need to meet her in a DLC

[@kingStuLad]

So I've watched innumerable lore videos at this point, but this one actually felt like it plugged in so many gaps. Great stuff

[@KessaWitdaFro]

I mostly agree but I feel like the Erd tree doesn't so much feed on suffering as it does raw souls. That's why it likes war because lots of people die leaving a steady stream of souls to cycle through it like a battery. That's why she sent away Godfrey and co. She realized this and didn't want his soul to go feed the tyrannical GW. She wanted him to die outside in the fog where his soul would remain untouched. That's also why she locked away death. She wanted to starve the tree. The GW then split Marika's soul and put it in some poor bloke to be puppeted around, waging war (liberating souls for eventual consumption) and making new empyreans (maybe parthenogenetically?? Idk). Anyway Marika and Ranni knew that they had to get rid of all the suitable empyrean genetic stock so they split the difference and killed Ranni's soul and Godrick's body. Radagon was a wrench in their plans not part of it!

[@heavenbot]

I love this theory! I've been thinking Marika split herself into Radagon to take the giants' curse and isolate it, but I definitely can see his existence being the GW trying to play damage control from beyond.

[@dr3amless345]

@KessaWitdaFro You've forgotten about one thing though, the rune of death was originally part of the Elden ring along with all the other great runes, the rune of death made it so people were not reborn from the erdtree but instead just simply died and their souls were free, Marika took away the rune of death from the Elden ring therefore making it so all deaths within the lands between were really just reincarnations due to the souls of warriors returning to the erdtree where they were reborn. So while you have an interesting point, I don't think the Erdtree ever wanted to feed off of souls, because that's Marika's doing, I think the greater will and the erdtree had some other purpose set in mind, after all, the rune of death WAS originally in the ring

[@marcogianesello6083]

Actually, it is the removal of destined death that feeds the erdtree's cycle, because the souls that do not die either linger on earth, or go back to the erdtree in the form of remembrances, which means that untrue death and erdtree burial(which was the highest honor in the age of the golden order) are different from true death. Godwyin's soul fir example was properly destroyed, and thus never went through the erdtree. The lore states that it is upon the golden order's conception that marika plucked the rune of death out of the elden ring, therefore it was the key part of the original golden order, befire any betrayal she might have schemed. Looking at it this way, Marika's age was an age where the elden ring became a malleable, physical entity, which codified the law of the world and could be molded by an individual will and power, she took death away and created an order where champions and their kingdoms could not only last virtually forever, but also whose might and power would eternally be bound to the erdtree even if they were to fall and be "killed". It put the world in a sort of glorious "stasis" where the laws of enthropy themselves could be wielded at will by the elden lord and eternal queen of the lands between. She invites her children to become "that which thee desire" or to otherwise be nothing more than sacrifices to the erdtree itself. It's all about that distinction, from a world of normal life and death, rules and principles that go beyond any one's control, to a world that is malleable by whomever conquerst it to the deepest degree. The erdtree is the symbol of the golden order, therefore it is in this state of artificial timelessness that it thrives and grows. Hell, destiny itself is a physical, perceivable force in the lands between, because a champion was powerful enough to stop the stars in their motion and thus, stop destiny from realizing itself

[@dr3amless345]

@@marcogianesello6083 Even so, did the greater will intend for this cycle? Knowing that Marika would remove the rune of death from the ring? Or was it just an unforseen event leading to the creation of the golden order( which I don't think was the intention of the greater will either, because out of all the lore videos I've watched, I've never seen any evidence of the golden order being planned by the greater will).

[@marcogianesello6083]

@@dr3amless345 My understanding is that the fundamental change the greater will enacted upon the world is that it took the literal laws of physics, enthropy, nature or what have you and codified them, manifested them in the physical entity known as the elden ring. That seems to be the watershed from the previous age, where an elden ring might have existed, but merely in the abstract sense, where the laws of nature simply favoured the strongest beings by evolutionary logic, if you will. Say the dragons and their age, where they ruled by virtue of being skyscraper sized lightning wielding monsters. Then the greater will sends the elden beast and the erdtree is born, and so is the elden ring proper. I don't know whether the golden order itself is marika's will or the greater will's, but considering that the cardinal sin is the burning of the erdtree in on itself, I think that the only thing the greater can be reliably stated to want about is that the elden ring continues existing molded by some god monarch or another, but without the rune of death so that the erdtree is fed forever and keeps existing. I think that is why the elden beast fights you even though you might mend the ring and repair the shattering, because it doesn't want a lord capable of killing a god if they so desire. What Marika did instead was shatter the ring, so that the tarnished would have a new chance at rising to the power of lord, and all the inhabitants of the lands between would live in a state of fracture, a constant battle of the very forces of reality pit against each other by their champions, a sort of holy struggle let's say, simbolized by marika's crucified state, undying and eternallly suffering, but with a chance to escape the control of the greater will, which punished her for it.

[@leek5682]

This video strikes a good balance between what’s actually in the game and speculation. Very good, keep it up!

[@agtjake]

Thank you 🙏

[@Woopywomp]

I think the numens from another world could be more akin to like elves from the lord of the rings. Or elves from Norse. Could be aliens or people. But this whole series has Norse, celtic and lord the rings type vibes.

[@jamiebowler4693]

Because the whole world is based upon English, Irish, Scottish ,Welsh and other European folklore

[@gagegrogan4352]

This lore video is so different than everyone else’s and it opened my eyes to many different ideas, and for that I thank you. It truly makes perfect sense and there could be some holes in it that I’m not seeing but I’m fully convinced now that Marika set everything in motion to cut off the greater will. Thanks for the great video and this video alone easily earns a sub from me. 😊

[@Ivan-gz6fw]

Very off topic, but I've alway wandered... What IS that red thing going through Marika's body? Has it been mentioned before somewhere? Is it even anything at all? Or is it just there to look cool? Great channel btw. Very usefull for us feeble minded plebs that can't make sense of anything.

[@elleofmusic]

It looks like a sliver of the Rune of Destined Death. It has that same black and red colour, while also using the same texture as the Rune she's crucified with. The reference to Jesus on the cross is that what actually killed him was the soldier stabbing him in the side with a spear, meaning Marika is likely already dead, or very close to death, when we see her there, and Radagon's presence in her body is all that's holding it together. When he dies, the Elden Beast turns their body into the Sacred Relic sword, which greatly resembles the Fingerslayer Blade the Nox created. How the sliver ended up impaling Marika is a whole other mystery, tho. Maybe she kept it to use on herself, or maybe Radagon was the one who did it? Or perhaps it was the Elden Beast? I'd almost think it had to be Maliketh, but he clearly thinks she's still alive, and doesn't comprehend what she wanted Destined Death for.

[@connerr.7865]

My belief is that the object piercing her body is Radagon, as it looks as if it could be made of strands of red hair and it disappears once Marika turns into him

[@johncra8982]

@@cwill14 aren't there item descriptions that explicitly state that marika defeated the GEQ?

[@dr3amless345]

@@cwill14 You have interesting points here but you're forgetting one thing, the rune of death was part of the elden ring, just like all the other great runes, Marika took out the rune of death from the elden ring. So how would she be in possession of the great death rune before she was chosen as a vessel for the greater will? There is no way she was the dusk eyed queen before becoming chosen without the rune of death

[@FalseSleepwalker]

I think smoughtown mentioned in his video that it could be amber starlight. It's the item seluvis uses to make a potion to make ranni into a doll implying that it could control a demigod. You can check out his video called The primeval current if you want to find out about it indepth.

[@TheLsp2011]

“Thy strength befits a crown” What an absolute GIGACHAD.

[@aranthur]

I have a couple nitpicky little points that I have other ideas on, as is always the case in theorycrafting with these games lol, but I agree with almost your entire theory! (For instance, one of the quotes Melina gives us from Marika is about the "early days of blind faith" being over, which I suspect means that Marika was at one point actually loyal to the Greater Will, and only later changed her mind and began all this plotting against it. And I suspect that removing the Rune of Death and having Maliketh seal it away was done during the period when she was still loyally following its commands, given that the Finger Readers seem convinced that the Greater Will would never want Destined Death returned to the Elden Ring. I think for the Greater Will, the ultimate goal is a world of perfect order. No death, no change, no free will, no conflict. Violence is a means to an end, a way of crushing any and all potential opposition. And it got close, before Marika betrayed it and arranged for its eventual defeat, even if that meant the destruction of everything she had ever built or known, including herself and her children Also, the most likely reason Marika would want Godwyn killed in the Night of Black Knives was, in my opinion, because he was of more use to her plans dead than alive. As a soulless undead demigod, he could be placed at the root of the Erdtree and become a source of infection, spreading Deathroot around the Lands Between and weakening the Erdtree's ability to take in souls and sustain itself and its cycle of rebirth) Other than a few of these details though, I absolutely agree about Marika's need to secretly arrange so many events and her alliance with Ranni and all that. Great video!

[@idolatrystudios]

Probably the best explanation I've seen. Kudos man, wonderful video

[@riccardocirielli]

Marika's betrayal towards Maliketh was not the stealing of the Rune of Death, it was the Shattering. Maliketh is loyal to the Greater Will and his mind of shadow is probably heavily influenced by the Outer God, the destruction of the Elden Ring weakend the influence of the Greater Will causing problems to Maliketh's mind, that's why he has some kind of amnesia when you first meet him. When you bring him death roots you are giving his power back to him, helping him remember.