All Facts about the New Type of Hearthstone Packs: Caverns of Times

[@Banaanivatkuli]

What I hate most about twist mode is how the info box moves my decks around, creating a fourth page for decks, but I can't make new decks on that page... They have the tech to give more deck slots, they just refuse to do so.

[@ElementVoidX]

it is because when you play against another player you load all of their cards in their collection plus their coins, cardbacks, portraits and decks, so you know it is just too hard.

[@ExceedinglyFPR]

it's literally just a .txt file because they use codes to store decks, there honestly should not even be a limit.

[@KnownAsKenji]

I do know they have the tech at least, there was a bug half a year or so ago where you could get 30/27 Decks in your collection.

[@antman7673]

@@ExceedinglyFPR You have to supply that code for millions of players. Even ones that don’t play the game anymore. Yes it is something, that doesn’t take up a lot of storage, but it sure shouldn’t be limitless.

[@ExceedinglyFPR]

@@antman7673 or you could store it locally like a sane developer, and only cloud store a limited number of decks.

[@iceygamingrulez]

It kind of seems like the expansion is just for whales or people who have played lots of those expansions and want to play it for a month in twist because without some significant nerfs in wild a lot of the cards are unusable even for the standards of someone who gets high gold each season. Hopefully after the twist event rotates they’ll start nerfing some of top decks but the fact twist balance takes priority over wild is so annoying.

[@Strongpoint_S]

As a mostly Wild player, I am going to buy enough to get all rares and then use stockpiled dust to craft epic and legendaries that look useful. Any recent standard set looks more useful for wild than this direct-to-wild release and it is a problem

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

Thats my aproach on every set. Get all rares. Get at least 2 legendary. Craft the epics and legendaries you want after that. And I like that they are buffing a lot of cards i already have.

[@CountFab]

As often said, Caverns of Time is more for Twist than it is for Wild.

[@KnownAsKenji]

Same. Won't be too many packs in this case, which is nice. Since I already got there for Titans (and also made use of those saved up Standard packs), I got enough to spare.

[@ILiekFishes]

@@CountFab also discolock

[@mikedebois2566]

spend 3000 gold and over 10.000 dust. just to try this out,...

[@arthurnavi6028]

As a regular wild player I promise you guys less than 5 of the altered cards will have any meaningful impact in wild. This was a twist focused change that wild also happens to get.

[@aure2549]

It is literally the point of this expension, they realized that a game mode with only a part of wild collection would only interest a part of the wild players and they already don't even want to balance wild because the player base is too small ...

[@liplak2029]

This expansion was advertised As a wild expansion, and the amount of cards that are relevant can be counted on 2 hands. Meanwhile the amount of buffed old cards that wouldn't see play in standard because they were not changed enough is all but 10 or so. The problem isn't "wild can't be balanced, wild hasn't been balanced at all; don't get our hopes up at any change/update when it's for a different game mode.

[@thatseconddude-g4t]

Meanwhile in reality Discolock got back to tier 1 Beast hunter came back to relevance Combo druid maybe back Rogue got both a 3 mana theothar and a 1 mana 2/2 with stealth Small time buccaneer is amazing for every pirate deck And there is plenty more to play with like 5 mana emperor and the paladin buffs

[@Strongpoint_S]

It depends on how you define a meaningful impact. I played dozens of C'thun deck games since the buff. Are C'thun decks still bad? Yes, they are. But they are way more playable and I had fun.

[@botchedmandala5197]

@@thatseconddude-g4tlmao like any of that is wild viable. Fuckin bliz bots

[@bradencluster4739]

I'm immediately putting my guard up. Hearthstone wants more and more of my money. Maybe we should return to the monetization of 2016 too. Back then I could spend $50 and feel pretty good about it. Now it's $80 pre orders, battle pass (plus one for Battlegrounds), mini sets, and now this...

[@Lightsaga]

As a strictly free to play player that can barely keep up with the standard collection. Unless Blizzard gives extra exclusive resources for twist or some extra resources overall, I don't plan to buy the new wild set nor play the Twist mode. Don't get me wrong, it looks really intriguing and fun, and I would love to try it out properly just as it launches as that's the most exciting time for new modes, but the resources needed to play it just seem like a bit too much.

[@IronMcWashburn]

your work is so important for the hs community, to calculate necessary packs, notifiying us when the games is getting more expensive etc. without you guys there would a lot of guessing and speculation. ty very much and pls never stop❤❤

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

Thanks a lot for the nice words, this is very motivating!

[@ElementVoidX]

I could not give a shit about "wild expansions" and I only play wild, my problem is these cards won't matter when they won't balance the mode anyway, twist sounds fun as a extra mode you play once in a full moon, but besides that i still think it will have way less players than standard wild and battlegrounds.

[@regalado7]

Thanks for your hard work with everything! Dora is being a realistic reporter.

[@fankrys]

I would to hear your analysis about cost and value of twist ready deck sold on the shop once known of course😂

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

Maybe I'll review the decks, but I can't promise.

[@jimbot885]

The problem is going to be the cavern of times set rotating in and out of the Twist format. When you collect a standard set you know it will be in standard for at least 16 months. We do not know how long Caverns will be available for in the long term. There are too many questions for me to justify spending resources on this and I am a collector.

[@gliscaradu1424]

im with Dora on this one

[@brayamalvarez906]

I think that this new set is inconsecuential to me since I don't play on wild and won't do it because I lack the cards and resources. But thanks for the analysis guys as always!

[@vecsia3811]

7:53 i see you guys run out of white chalk and used some colorful ones 😮

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

[@ampersandellipsis747]

Do the new signature cards have a pity timer which counts previously opened packs from expansions (Imagine someone opened 360 packs when old gods came out, then opened more old gods packs now), or does it restart from 0?

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

That would be logical, but I have no idea if it works

[@sam_20_]

I’m more of a wild player, so I’m just going to craft the interesting cards that have some potential for wild (shaman new hero). The thing is wild is unbalanced so this expansion is going to change nothing.

[@KnownAsKenji]

The new 2 Mana Gain Mana+Draw card for Druid is definitely going to see play in Wild, but besides that you're right.

[@yellowpanther8228]

why do we not get pre-release bundles with Cavern of Times? Seems like a big marketing wasted opportunity.

[@RihardM]

unsatisfied, dora is right, it is just a money grab and doesn’t help wild format whatsoever

[@este5174]

After having every common and rare card of an expension, should I continue to buy regular pack or should I buy golden packs ? Which is the best ?

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

You should watch my previous videos. Gold packs are no different from normal packs in terms of getting dust, so you should definitely open regular packs, as in addition to dust they contain useful cards

[@wolfeswordsftptavern5783]

So yesterday I got the new mage legendary thar gives 6 secrets off of the 4mana get 2 mage spells from the past almost won me the game.

[@brizwaldjonson]

I'm glad i think all the signature cards look out of place and don't even want them.

[@andreaiachini7517]

For me the protection didn't work. I got almost no new cards from Cavern of time. I got only a bunch of cards I already owned and only very few new rares and commons. Is this a bug or no? I can't still understand this. I don't like this at all. Why they did this to the old and loyal players?

[@Thing-vc2qm]

Seems to me that they went full industrial vessel ship on the whales on this one

[@TheUnrider]

Im not a big spender, but I would have bought a big bundle (if available), but not for only 1 month and no assurance that the same cards will be used in the future for this playmode.

[@mikedebois2566]

I agree; for some odd reason I got carried away and spend 3000 gold and 16.000 dust to get me into the mode,... build C'thun Druid, Jade Rogue, and Discard Warlock. (ok ok and some legacy legendary cards)

[@neondead2.0.15]

If this give us option to buy old skins (with animations) for gold, than i'm all in.

[@sadeko533]

i doubt that many players are willing to purchase those Caverns of Time Packs if they can only play those in Twist for a single month, and i doubt there are many players who still have the old Cards in their Collection.

[@CountFab]

Wild players

[@natecartwright2319]

so they heavily encourge us to dust our collection as the cards rotated out 7 years ago and now they want to sell us the same cards we dusted. yeah im good on that. PASS

[@DannyPodcast]

I am just gonna craft the best got damn C'Thun deck ever made.

[@SuperMatthew345]

8:58 I completely agree with Dora. I was hoping for a sound rebuttal but it's basically "shut up, stop being negative". So I'm really expected to spend $90< for a MINISET that's only playable/viable in Twist and might rotate in a month? Bruh. Talk about shit value.

[@DrakeLord213]

I just don't have the dust to play wild. Is what it is.

[@robsonperez90]

I probably only will play twist if there is a event that would give packs for dust, i disenchant all cards from rotation,so not even sure if i will have enough cards to enter this mode =)

[@ilikepinacoladasandgetting896]

I really hope that twist isn't plagued with super hyper aggressive decks of old like the dreadful pirate warrior which started in mean streets of gagetzan. I am going to hold back to see how things play out for a few days. If it is plagued with super aggro decks only then i will refuse to spend a dime. It isn't fun at all going against ruthless aggro, and if the intention is to make the mode fun then i hope there is a balance between aggro, mid range, and control.

[@Dani_el_Duck]

Patches no longer have charge and a lot of control cards were buffed so I think it's going to be at least better than the original release

[@ilikepinacoladasandgetting896]

@Dani_el_Duck I know, but the ptsd of that dreaded pirate warrior deck that was the most hated deck in heartstone history is returning. 😅 Can't blame me if i hold back just to see how the meta forms.

[@What-fv1yl]

Does anyone actually give a single shit about twist tho lmao

[@daltonrandall4348]

I still don't understand how a "reprint" is any different than just a normal nerf/buff...

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

Reprints provide a new opportunity for developers to combine cards from different expansions and sell them in new packs.

[@daltonrandall4348]

@@HearthstoneMathematics I still don't understand the difference. It's just a buffed card that they're selling to you a second time? 😂 And we're okay with this??

[@jigsaw315]

But worst is ...blizzard changed my golden Yogg Saron for this new "stone look" like why they not remain both?

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

your gold card will not change

[@jigsaw315]

But they Did. Thats the mystery..and I dont like it. @@HearthstoneMathematics

[@What-fv1yl]

Is there a guaranteed legendarny in the first ten packs?

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

Yes, but signature cards are not guaranteed in the first ten packs

[@konasavage]

Great video. Love your channel.

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

[@Xeanoz-w2d]

Collector's don't care if they have to spend more money, since they have money to spend on collecting.

[@MikeMcKibnn]

I bought the diamond murozond bundle and I love it and I had lucky cuz I also got Y’shaarj signature 🎉

[@jman1954goat]

Wait 1 month? I thought they said we would get Wonders for for 2 months 🤔.

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

I haven't heard anything about 2 months, but maybe I'm wrong! Developers are not in full dialogue with the players.

[@DeathgripsCards]

It’s literally a set for people who either play a lot or used to, anyone who doesn’t get it. Doesn’t play yugioh or magic, the throwback sets that reprint the money cards go off.

[@finaxe6147]

Thanks once again❤

[@TheFuzzician]

At some point, Hearthstone needs a subscription option, where you get everything. Constantly buying and opening packs, disenchanting and all that, just takes too long. And is just too expensive. I just want to be able to play the game. But the game will not let me. It keeps asking for more and more money, and putting annoying roadblocks in the way. I want to try Twist, but the cost makes it completely unviable. Hearthstone is not good enough as game to warrant this. And the existence of rotating formats means there is an ever-present risk of simply losing value, in the form of cards rotating out.

[@johnobdave5766]

If I disenchanted my legacy epics but theyre currently in standard (shield slam and brawl etc) do I have to craft them again just to use in twist?

[@andredepadua8799]

No

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

It looks like yes! Since Core set is not included in this Twist format

[@johnobdave5766]

I was afraid this would happen haha, thanks for the info I'll save more dust then lol@@HearthstoneMathematics

[@IncubiAkster]

Really want the signayure old gods, depressing that il prolly never get any. :(

[@Zakading]

Did Blizzard give any statement if we are still getting a normal 2000 gold mini-set for TITANS? I'm a Wild player, but I'm really not sure if getting Caverns of Time is worth it. Historically, the mini-Sets always included at least one meta relevant legendary and a few other cards that even ended up getting nerfs.

[@CarolinaPride95]

Why wouldn’t we be getting a mini set?

[@What-fv1yl]

​@@CarolinaPride95cause anything can change?

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

I found the logo for the Titans miniset in the game files.

[@Dragoonslim3]

I'm hyyyyyped

[@ralosze]

lol pay 1000$ for a few comics...unbelievable, just unbelievable

[@filipjevtovic6513]

Amazing video 👍

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

[@symraynor]

Yet another money grab from Blizzard. PS. With $1000, I took a one-week vacation in Paris, including travel (I'm from Italy), transportation, dinners, hotel and museums. I think it's a bit better than having some animations in a virtual card game. Maybe we've all lost sight of how much this stupid game costs.

[@ultimpower9350]

Idk...I think it will be really cool to play a nostalgic, yet different metagame, but spending gold/money on it just to have it disappear in a month? meh

[@hollburs6289]

I'm very desapointed by this twist season... They said it would be some cool rules, but in the end it's just New cards from New packs... Shame... I'm glad to see the buff tho. But Imo they're lady and greedy on this... To Bad because the mod has a lot of potential. I don't ecen talk about the beta which was awefull

[@argon1613]

So i have to rebuy old cards? Man, this is why i left hearthstone a long time ago

[@alenpinter6321]

It is insane how much money you need to get all the cards

[@dariuszzagorski4776]

all just to have different graphics on the card. sick

[@No1Amo]

1000$ is an insane amount for in game transactions - who are willing to spend that much on any game 😅

[@CountFab]

Only people who desperately want all signature cards, probably only big streamers who can justify it as a tax write-off.

[@dopplegaming4289]

Caverns of time is a scamy xpsion with no duplicate protection at best. just crafting the cards good in twist mode is the way dont spend on packs.

[@sheeptheyouber]

Hearing the mention of "forcing" or "being forced" to do anything in a game doesnt sound logical

[@TheCheezusCrust]

i think its cool, but its also very clearly a cash grab since mercs was shut down

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

Sometimes it seems to me that the developers have reached a dead end!

[@TrimutiusToo]

"Returns" in video's title really trips me up, because it isn't grammatically correct...

[@robbyw.8616]

29th

[@ChromaSup]

How can people be hyped for signature cards, its just a normal card without text, even worse as u have to click the card to check its effects and are not even animated like golden or diamond cards, what a waste

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

I'm ambivalent about the concept of signature cards, but I really like the new look of the Old Gods.

[@moehalabi8437]

so we will have to play eh ? ffs

[@oscarcabrejosvilchez4703]

What I hate about twist is how broken it is. Saying that, standard is broken with hunter been so op. It doesnt has counterplay.

[@ggnfirehunter]

did they really just excuse a expansion that costs a fking 1000$. i mean i´m only here because this video got recomended but this channel is ridiculous.

[@makeleth]

If you always have to have all the skins, any expansion will cost 1000 dollars. The complete collection includes signatures who are incredibly rare but in the end its just skins. You don't have to have them to play

[@HearthstoneMathematics]

You'll need to pay $1,000 just for the premium version of the cards (gold design) plus 15 extremely rare Signature cards, plus you'll get a ton of crafting dust. Yes, it is incredibly expensive, but it is worth noting that in the past the gold collection cost much more! The cost of a complete collection of cards, including completely useless ones, for an active player (who plays at least once every three days) is no more than $ 80 for extensions. This is an extremely affordable price for collectible card games.

[@kickassclone75]

I have everything in the game and I could care less about owning the signature cards . Blizzard failed at that aspect. They should have made those signature legendaries unlockable with achievements and owning the original legendary. The Diamond cards are so much better who gives AF about signature legendaries that don’t even show up in the collection or count against the 100% . The signature cards might as well be mercenary portraits at this point because I don’t think 99% of the player base gives one F about them and that includes whales like me who own every character cosmetic and cardback aside from the ones you get from participating in esports events. I have no desire to own them or even play with them. Now my golden chogall and weapon master legendaries can finally shine 😂😂😂😂. I just laugh at people who constantly dust cards to play one mode and never think the game will ever change . If the game doesn’t change people like me won’t play it anymore . When I responded to the surveys I’m always sent this is what I suggested they do but they really didn’t listen when I told them to make alternate art sets obtainable by either owning everything or by achievements . Not even whales like me will turn money into dust for 15 cards that frankly don’t even look that good. I have over 250k dust doing nothing . Why would I ever buy packs to get more dust I have no use for when I own everything ? Maybe make the signature cards craftable ONLY and not obtainable in packs . That would make dust worth something again. Evidently they are just to stupid to figure this out. When I open a signature legendary it isn’t even good 😂😂I’d rather have the golden legendary . Thank god they had that bug that let you disenchant signature legendaries for which I immediately got rid of stupid ones I already had the golden legendary for. Dump the signature cards and start making Diamond legendaries the end of the line. Signatures should be craftable with a high dust coat or obtainable for completing achievements but not in packs . No effort on the devs and really shows lack of any ingenuity or thinking beyond your nose to do what they did.