All that Jazz w/Mike Stern - June 2013 - the Half-Whole Symmetrical Diminished Scale

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Last month, I discussed ways for guitar players to expand their improvising vocabulary. I'm a big proponent of transcribing other musicians' solos, including those played on other instruments, such as the saxophone, trumpet or piano, for example. This has been a lifelong endeavor for me, one that I still enjoy and feel that I greatly benefit from every time I pursue it.
I started out as a blues-rock guitarist and spent a lot of time figuring out licks by such great players as Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Beck, B.B. King and Buddy Guy, and I still love those guys. I eventually got some jazz records and tried to play along with them, but I got completely lost. It seemed that the vocabulary of jazz was so much more difficult-not necessarily better, just different. I favored the simplest stuff, and I still do, because it grabs my heart, and music is a language of the heart. But I was very intrigued by jazz and yearned to expand my knowledge of the guitar and music by studying that language.

[@Modes9]

Mike is just a regular guy with a lot of heart. He's really modest and unpretentious. In a world of no-talent, obnoxious self-promoters, his kind of integrity is refreshing.

[@dhadleyray]

As a professional musician, I found the intro as useful as the musical content. To have someone that has been in the game as long as Mike sharing that even he had the same feelings toward jazz as many of us is personal and endearing. Some of the comments on here are unnecessary. Mike's track record speaks for itself. Be mature people.. Musicians and that damn hyper critical mindset is truly an amateur predisposition. Too much of it will see you off the gig.. Find a way to express an opinion without coming off as an ass. Music is a spiritual endeavor, we should remember that.. Cheers..

[@Poppafunkband]

dhadleyray totally

[@fullmoon7192]

*@ dhadleyray* ```````````````````````` Well said... Amen to your words bro...

[@fullmoon7192]

*@ verbotenco* ```````````````````````` You're talking to yourself, right (?)

[@AlexSosaBolivia]

Well said. Most of the negativity is born out of frustration.

[@PabloArceo-synclab]

dhadleyray absolutely.

[@Graiskye]

There is a instructional video that Mike did a while back, a webinar if I recall, in it he relates how he got into playing Jazz. Long story short, to get right to the point, Mike sucked at jazz at first, he said he had all the desire and passion to play, just none of the technical ability, and he honestly thought he would never get to the point where he could play with feeling and without thinking, playing Jazz in what you might call its pure form. He relates how his teachers(he sought out some good teachers to try to learn Jazz, he was a rock blues player till that point, playing strictly by ear), his instructors basically told him that he would suck for quite a while, thats just the way it is. To get from point A to point B, was going to require some boring practice and study. There are very few Jazz virtuosos, most of the greats worked long and hard to get there. This is such an important lesson for every style of music, it doesnt matter if its metal, flamenco, classical, or country, if its new, and technically demanding(dont laugh theres some very technical country picking), it is going to take work to learn, and you are probably going to sound like crap while your learning, and that is OK. There is a lot of freedom in simply allowing oneself to sound cruddy, to sound like a beginner again, it sounds crazy, and non sensical, but it actually holds water. Just a little Mike Stern wisdom that really affected my outlook that I thought I would share in hopes of it doing the same for others, sorry I cannot recall the name of the Video, I just saw the starting bit, and he talks about his early days and influences etc, and how badly he sucked at Jazz guitar when he started.

[@talawa777]

Isn't that in this video?

[@jschmoe4211]

That is a great comment Graiskye. Allowing youself to sound crummy, during practice time, is how you fill in the holes in your playing. It is interesting that humility, generally, increases as one pursues a deeper knowledge of a complex subject. To put it crudely, as you delve into complex endeavours, you get your ass kicked by the subject. When you're working with simpler forms it's easy to think of yourself as a master, and to fool yourself in to this self image. Taking on advanced, complex things shows your limitations. So, does seeing other accomplished musicians do things that you cannot do, without a lot of practice. So, you learn to live with the idea that you have limitations, that other's work is valuable, that you'll ALWAYS be learning, and that to advance, you'll always need to practice. In short, you become humbled and a lifetime student.

[@Jplent1]

Graiske...Really big into the suck thing.

[@holdencaustic]

I’ve seen mike live several times- his vocabulary is endless, and his time is ridiculous- he’s just awesome

[@zodiacbluesbaby]

His preamble is actually quite interesting. A lot of guitarists can relate to his experiences getting to grips with jazz.

[@EVEROSFP1]

Music is a language of the heart... one of the best in this lesson!

[@eltigre8978]

Mike is such a cool player, his fluidity and phrasing......Awesome! I'm going to learn scale. What a cool mood! I just watched the Paris Concert with Bob Franceschini - Tenor Sax, Richard Bona - Bass, Dennis Chambers - Drums. Man Mike can play! All those cats can play! Richard Bona! Dennis Chambers! Bob Franceschini......all those solos are awesome.

[@CrossBonesAlex]

One of my favorite DVDs - unbelievable perfection

[@ampeg]

thanks mike, your honesty on the daunting task of learning jazz was extremely helpful. That a master like yourself felt like others and I do was great to relate too.

[@ArisAlamanos]

This guy has such a positive vibe.Great man and player.

[@pat557]

That SNL show was the first time i ever saw Mike...Full Stop. he was playing out of his mind.Stunning. the vocabulary he was dealing with was so beyond anything I'd heard before-- I knew we weren't in Kansas anymore...

[@superflysoulbrother]

God I love this man to pieces

[@jazzerson7087]

Superb, so encouraging and good to know a guy like Stern had the EXACT same feelings I have about learning jazz haha. Makes me feel a lot better about myself LOL.

[@DannyGomez666]

This is awesome because it feels like he's having a conversation with you about it. It's so cool!

[@yusazua]

When Mr Mike talk you just shut up and listen.

[@kingkpin100]

Couldn't have said it better!

[@tonyred520]

And boy does he talk..got fed up waiting

[@barakados]

I listen when he plays! 8 min talks 40 seconds playing!

[@TheHumbuckerboy]

I'm impressed by how humble and down-to-earth Mike is as well as his eagerness to share his knowledge !

[@rillloudmother]

that's acommon thread among a lot of great players: humility.

[@TheHumbuckerboy]

Yes, those type of people are the real thing with nothing to prove.

[@Frapzoid]

I did the same thing 40 years ago and haven't looked back. You made the right move.

[@DrJoshGuitar]

I always like it when successful cats say how they struggled to get it. That really makes me want to keep going when I get frustrated.

[@jasoncavitt2043]

For mind expansion, listen to the above. For mind contraction, read what's below.

[@BunkleMcCrunkle]

Mike Stern is the nicest guy in jazz.

[@seriousorry]

I hope you find the mental health professional you require. Seek help my friend! It's there for you. The first step is to admit you have a problem. Good luck.

[@hahabass]

I know! Jeez. Makes you wonder what goes on for some people? Well said.

[@hahabass]

Juan2003gtr who is?

[@aynrandy1]

+Juan2003gtr So what if he is,(which he probably isn't), he's not in your face about so it's his fuckin business.

[@hahabass]

Hear, hear! Sounds like a troubled childhood.

[@Marcus538]

What a video! Probably my favourite player or one of them .

[@stephanleo]

The difference between a pro and a clueless amateur: Amateur:" yawn, 5 minutes of talk, playing starts at..." Pro: "Wow, very inspiring words in the beginning and the playing is also great, love Mike!"

[@ChromaBlue13]

Agreed.

[@petersalmon4203]

"music is a language, and a language of the heart". Nice line.

[@murky9554]

his energy is admirable

[@SuperMIKEFREE]

Mike's a great guitarist, really nice of him to drop in and share this important lick with us. I'm a 57 year old, I've played guitar most of my life "not pro--hobby" and like many guitarist my age and older,we all seem to have plenty of hair on our heads lol. Seriously,what is it with guitarist, Look at the head of hair Mike has for a 62 year old. All That Hair/Jazz

[@rhard007]

Every guitarist, not guitar player that I have ever met has always been humbled by the instrument. Listen to any conversation with anyone that has spent a lifetime trying to master the guitar and they are completely humbled by the instrument but these are the guys that can really play.

[@aghoriguitarist]

Huge respect for you for intentionally choosing the words 'guitarists' & 'guitar players'. Not every "guitar player" will get that :)

[@bh8365]

What a positive person. I've been watching some interviews and live clips. He is inspiring.

[@MichaelCrutcher]

The thing that's missing from this lesson is that this dominant-diminished pattern can be played from any whole step in the scale. Sticking with the G7 root chord, we could play this pattern from B, D, F, or Ab. B->C#, F->G, Ab->Bb, D->E, or D->E, Ab->Bb, B->C#, F->G, or F->G, B->C#, D->E, Ab->BB, or the first one cited by Stern, which was Ab->Bb, D->E, F->G, B->C# The same half-step/whole-step pattern in a different order of root notes. Same fingering pattern moved around the neck. Brilliant.

[@MoechtegernPimP]

this sounds a lot like the brecker brothers - some skunk funk! is this actually what they used?

[@MoechtegernPimP]

Ah just found out it's true. "Some Skunk Funk" starts with G7#9 thats actually the chord for the half-whole tone diminished scale :) that's cool!

[@mahajohn]

8:23 ripped the boundaries of spacetime, and caused Edward Munch to paint "The Scream."

[@janekvu2383]

damn it...even Mike Stern says jazz is hard...this is super motivated and demotivated at the same time :p

[@mggandcompany2395]

im also a rock guy transitioning over to jazz fusion... thanks for the video

[@Chrisdougable]

Is this the guy that used to jam with Jaco Pastorius?

[@michaelmeza1913]

yes. on Mood Swings !

[@MichaelCrutcher]

Yes. There's some great live material out there of him playing with Jaco...

[@DanielVerberne]

Wow, Mike talking about 'spacing out' when studying music theory - I relate so strongly. Sounds like despite the challenges he's become fluent and that's the goal. I envy that.

[@erikshen1107]

His wife Leni IS A WORLD CLASS Player as well!!

[@6672rock]

So take the root of whatever chord your playing, go a half step higher and play diminished licks that eventually resolve on the root. Ingenious idea!

[@tubeman1983]

It's not for whatever chord you're playing: Half whole diminished scale for Dominant chords and whole half diminished scale for minor and diminished chords.

[@Cablespelaonica]

You can tell this guy practices all day...#Hero

[@ibanezguitars4021]

I love how he looks at the guitar and talks to it! LOL

[@aaronamccoy]

mike didnt get high, mike stayed high~miles davis

[@ChromaBlue13]

Lmfao

[@rillloudmother]

if miles wants to send you to rehab, you know you've got something wrong -MS

[@Lupocide]

This is the scale Jonny Greenwood uses on Radiohead's "Just". Just saying.....

[@railcar123]

Great lesson Mikes the man

[@trouble1macker202]

"Just because I felt like doin' it." To that I reply, "FUCK YEAH!"

[@befingered]

An interesting guy, but if you came here to find out about the half-whole diminished scale, skip ahead to 5:30.

[@tonyred520]

Now that's a good comment...Mike,shut and and play your two chorus pedals..

[@snuffelsuf]

i liked hearing what he said...Jazz does seem too beyond for me and i bet alot of people... what he said was very helpful.... now he IS beyond , which shows you CAN get there

[@luigibeatrice7857]

Heartwarming

[@Aquallamy]

I just want to say thanks!

[@eweeparker]

Met this man with Eric Johnson and wow what a couple of nice guys!

[@cliffdexter38]

Hey Mike... Thanks So Much for this explanation, it was just what I needed to hear.. This really helped me ! YOUR GREAT MAN !

[@56davidwright]

I used to be lousy at jazz. Didn't understand a thing but I wanted to sound smart so bad that I decided to go for it no matter how horrible it sounded. I practiced for years sounding so bad most of the time that l would give myself serious headaches and end up feeling concussed and slightly nauseous a lot. After about 12 and a half years of daily torture l decided to take a leaf out of a zen haiku tradition whose main teaching is " if you are trying you are trying too hard." I'm still trying that approach but it means l hardly ever even think about picking up the guitar without feeling overwhelming exhausted... so I guess it's working in some kind of counter intuitive way. I still don't like jazz that much.. but I'm getting used to sounding wierd...and the headaches? I'm getting used to them too. I think lm just about ready to go on stage.

[@chrisfarrugia5397]

Jazz certainly expands the musical menu

[@meganote]

Well said Mike!

[@shredsixsixsix9218]

That's a signature lick I've heard him play a million times and never know what it was ,pretty cool.

[@robertosozio3425]

Great Lession good

[@danhope77]

the language of the heart. Well said.

[@TheLochs]

this makes me realize these monsters of music are human just like us. He struggled, I'm struggling, lol. I feel better.

[@sitarjeet]

his hair is like a twenty year old's

[@j.reveille6815]

Now hair style has an age?.... I would work on your guitar style and not worry about his hair....

[@erikshen1107]

'Mike didn't come to the gig to get high...MIKE STAYED HIGH!" MILES DAVIS

[@TremorBear]

Thank you Mike Stern for sharing your incredible talent!

[@ukulelechriswilson]

Wouahhhh about 6 min One chords G7 ! The best

[@marcosilvestri2329]

can you guys see his aura? kinda green with a blue outline

[@cmkilcullen8176]

Marco Silvestri blue in green...

[@davidmmcg]

It's so lame when a guy with a 30 year career who has played the acknowledged greatest musicians on their own instruments like Miles Davis, Jaco Pastorius, Michael Brecker, Dennis Chambers, Kenny Kirkland, Bob Berg, and Peter Erskine decides to share one of his favorite licks with me for free on the internet, but makes me wait 5 whole minutes through an inspiring story about his humble beginnings and struggle with the kind of music I am interested in.

[@wadecottingham]

oh yes, torture, sheer horror of having to listen to him talk. i feel your pain. it's a mockery of a travesty of a sham. makes me want to bury myself alive and cry myself to sleep. Four years ago, they probably had not invented the fast forward thing in KZbin so you were FORCED to listen to the talking.

[@holdencaustic]

wadecottingham I think he was being facetious, as a slap in the face to the complaining shitheads on this thread.

[@beeastman1235]

Is this the scale Scofield uses in his solos with Miles Davis to take it 'out'?

[@vKarl71]

One of the very best jazz guitarists. He deserves something a lot better than this incompetent video. Terrible lighting.

[@druchumley4571]

Anyone who uses "cats" to describe other musicians is ok with me.

[@jazzman1954]

For those struggling. Ab diminished is G7b9 if you have a G in the root. The whole/half thing is just a scale. If you start that scale on the g it goes half whole step. If you start on the Ab it’s whole/half but it’s exactly the same set of notes that fit Ab dim or G7b9. He then takes 4 notes from the scale (cell) and moves it around in a pattern by sliding the last note of the cell up a half step. This is a complex advanced tool that’s a million miles from blues rock. Good luck and don’t do drugs.

[@dexblue]

Great guy, a natural teacher … thanks so much for laying it out in a direct, meaningful way ...

[@davidhadley370]

I've since met Mike and jammed with him... He IS a nice guy AND a great player. Jeez... some people on the net are just cowardly hate spewing maggots. The man is a nice guy and a musician's muso... Learn from it, and if you can't say anything nice... ;)

[@cian101harris]

Actually Mike has been clean and sober for over a quarter of a century.

[@trueblueyou6114]

I remember when I first heard this guy-"who TF is this guy"--such a nice style

[@VioletDeliriums]

Hmm. From what I can tell, he says to skip ahead to 5:30 so that you don't have to listen to his life story and you can get right on to the music theory. And, I would argue, he doesn't really talk much about theory, just fingering patterns for the octatonic scale. If he wanted to talk theory, he might have pointed out that there are only 4 diminished scales, and that is the reason a single scale work over so many keys, then got into how that works through common tones.

[@mateolopez4611]

humility.skills virtuosity he s definitly a jazz guitarit

[@iwillnevergetone5]

Mike Stern played with Miles & Marcus Miller right?

[@CrAzzyWak]

The first 5 minutes just changed my life.

[@fencore]

that's one weird calibration there! look at the saddle for the low E! great musician btw

[@gigarocker]

Is he wearing a backpack? Such sweg, wow. Great player

[@cast390]

I didn't know mic jagger was such a great jazz player...

[@_jeronimobraga]

My mom said the same thing

[@frankie.d1127]

Could this also work over dominant 7#9 chords?

[@Ark4evah]

+Francois DuJour yeah, Half wholestep contains all the notes you require to play over dominant #9

[@norsangkelsang7939]

I used to see Mike downtown at 55 Bar if Terry Lyne Carrington was on kit.

[@niptodstan]

As a rock player this stuff goes over key head. But I wish I had time to learn it.

[@snuffelsuf]

Does he use his middle finger as his 1st finger? Meaning if he is in G hed use his Middle finger for the bass G

[@DHgtr1]

Hi..Great video..I always loved his sig. guitar ...reminds me of a late 60s early 70s tele I had..with neck Humbucker...tho Im sure it has a flatter radius..Thanks again....Dave

[@larrynapier5003]

I hope you are doing well Mike

[@VioletDeliriums]

A thumbs up to this comment indicates the person didn't read the comment it responded to carefully, and probably did not listen to what was said in the first 5 1/2 mins. The guy m1gerandisbest responded to was simply pointing out that he doesn't start the lesson until 5:30, but just blabbed on and on about his life. He says nothing about theory in the whole lesson. Even after 5:30, he really doesn't talk about theory, but simply gives a finger pattern for the octatonic scale.

[@VioletDeliriums]

I think the point he is making is that the lesson listed in the title starts at 5:30, and he didn't want to listen to his life story before that. I have to say I kind of agree with him. The practical music theory comes after 5:30, right? He says skip to that if you are more interested in what the title says the video does.

[@VioletDeliriums]

Maybe so. But perhaps they should re-title the video then? That way, people who want to know about his background could find it, and those who actually want to learn the scale and how to use it (not just a fingering pattern) might be able to find it? Would that be a reasonable solution?

[@VioletDeliriums]

Why the name-calling?

[@Zager-recap]

Why jazz Musicians don't like to use this scale in m7??...i tried this scale on m7 and is not really horrible.

[@PrimoSchnevi]

I Love Mike Stern. Havent seen the video though yet :D

[@tomdecuca3627]

Don't come any better than Mike Stern!! Been listening to him since early 80s with Miles Davis! For me the guys in Jazz and Fusion music were so much more "human" than rockstar players.

[@babinm]

mikeIt I think i got something from your talk about you and me. The truth is we listened to so much blues but we felt it and it came out but jazz to make it come out is the same thing listeneing. there are so many jazz artists to listen to especially their early stuff that we just don't do it as much and the music doesn't come out as much. just reminds me of the importance of listening to and dissecting jazz playing especially horns and piano to break out of mechanicl learning.

[@Happy-Me.]

I have the Mike Stern Tele and thinking of selling!

[@manguera9]

He speak the true,when you go to the music school ,there are too many rules and theoryand was so difficult play with the heartbut with more practice you will find an answer ,there is a point that you can memorize the chord changes and you will feel the changes..which is good

[@dahamus]

"Music is a language and it's a language of the heart".... top quote from this lesson.

[@mikedegroff7766]

man, Mike Stern is such a dude.

[@boonexy]

Well, he wasn't really describing music theory, mostly how he arrived at this type of playing where it was necessary, he didn't mention anything about scale structures or anything like that.

[@NocyMusic]

Play with your heart like Mike does notes don’t matter as much music is the greatest as long as you love what you do

[@eliaspap8708]

Great insight, Lost it towards the end, You wouldn’t have the scale diagram and which chords starting from what point?

[@bokehintheussr5033]

It's dangerous and irresponsible territory to suggest that Jazz has a more sophisticated "vocabulary" than blues. Jazz is more sophisticated than blues because it is more engaged with common practice music theory. To suggest that there's a scale you can learn to play jazz is misguided. You can't transfer the lick-learning culture of blues with it's "vocabulary" to jazz. if you want to play jazz you've got to go back to the drawing board and learn music theory and how it applies to the guitar. You have to actually learn how to play your musical instrument, rather than just noodle on it and play licks... sorry, but its true... the good news it that music theory extends so simply and elegantly from first principles that it's a piece of piss to learn how to play jazz on the guitar, and if you've been noodling on the instrument for ten years, your fingers are already nimble enough to follow your brain.

[@Dentark1]

This video should be in reverse

[@michaeladams7400]

Hey I have a guitar that may be of some interest to you

[@Echocat59]

Amazing player. Amazing natural way of speaking to high concept in way cool manner.

[@iZephyr6]

Amazing video, after watching this I wrote one page of ideas from that, thanks a lot.