Alternate Win Condition Week | Commander Clash S11E23

[@BeastlyP1g]

Theme Suggestion: Everyone tells crim it’s jank tribe week while secretly building 3 hard core control decks themselves lol

[@Kryptnyt]

That would be funny, and also mean, but also funny

[@Spaced92]

Even better, it's all green week and they rock up with grixis control.

[@joshuavenable8848]

Well, my suggestion for a theme would be no-ramp week. No treasures, cost reducers(and somewhat playing things for free), bring land onto battlefield(from graveyard, library, or hand), may play more lands, lands that tap for multiple mana, cards that transform into lands(dowsing dagger), mana rocks, mana dorks, rituals, and all the various forms of ramp are banned. Things that retain mana like Omnath, Locus of Mana, Leyline Tyrant, and storelands would be okay with me, although still somewhat against the spirit of the challenge. Pretty sure that the team would need to discuss exactly what rules are there beforehand though, since there's always going to be edge cases like Sun Titan and whatnot. Of course, this restriction could be combined fairly easily with almost any other theme, to potentially make it more interesting.

[@Kryptnyt]

@@joshuavenable8848 "Rule of Law Emblem" week could also be a thing

[@adamfiliatreault3393]

So, everyone just becomes Crim?

[@JoshRudis]

On this week of "Punt or Bluff?" everyone has forgotten how to win a game of Magic. Will Phil stumble his way to victory as a pacifist or will Crim force everyone to lose the game by sheer will (and enchantments)? Tune in to find out!

[@sleighte]

Oh my this one is amazing! The revenge Mana Tithe, Seth accidentally countering his own spell and then freaking out but luckily not saying anything, Seth clicking yes to the Hedron trigger... Tremendous

[@sleighte]

And then Richard's saving Angel's Grace to give him and Seth a chance into...more scrys

[@adamfiliatreault3393]

Spite Tithe was my absolute favourite part of this episode! I love when certain people get their comeuppance!

[@jonfarmer7914]

I enjoy every episode of Commander Clash, but this one is particularly amusing.

[@gabriellecureux5528]

My favorite one has to be the all niv episode with Seth being like guys we just got to mill him out giving tomer so many cards it was best

[@adamfiliatreault3393]

My favorite thing happened around the 1:09:00 mark 😁

[@rsphii]

I love how Richard has crazy wordplay for what he’s actually tutoring for around 29-31min into the game even though he already has a wrath and demonic tutor in hand he acts like he’s tutoring for an answer he does this nearly every game, thats what makes him such an amazing player👍

[@johnconway7713]

Couldn't agree more, he's really good at subtle ways of playing the people at the table. I find it interesting how salty and guilt-inducing Richard acted after the MLD when he was *so close* to doing exactly what Phil did (and likely winning *again*). I do wish the table played with more awareness of how Richard plays them; I think it would lead to less predictable play patterns that the group has fallen into. This week was one mana away on the turn of the wrath from another Richard win I think

[@kingfuzzy2]

Crim and Tomer are getting very close to calling out Richard often on want he does so hopefully this will lead to cooler plays.

[@freehoppernz9058]

@@johnconway7713 He wasn't upset about getting MLD'd, he just wanted Seth to have a better plan to win afterwards like he did

[@ADVBCAT]

But he did tutor for an answer, he got Doomskar.

[@DarthTUK]

Crim would rather say "Clash on" than to sit through the game. Respect.

[@adamfiliatreault3393]

It's kind of a dick move to kill a creature on the way out, though

[@dwpetrak]

@@adamfiliatreault3393 What?!? That's retribution and totes fair. It's expected in the groups I play with. If you are going to take someone out they are 100% going to drag you down for doing it! No freebees sir.

[@starmanda88]

@@dwpetrak big agree. We always go down swinging in my pod too.

[@BrewersKitchen]

If you see this comment, you have to smash that like button! Sorry, I don't make the rules here...

[@godtiermtg]

Ahhhh, you got me!

[@twoinone_]

Phil speaks, I listen

[@chips8623]

I want to thank you for sounding even whiter than me when saying 'don't hate the player, hate the game!'

[@Breifcaseguy1]

When the guys were thinking of Detection tower, Shadowspear makes all permanents lose hexproof and indestructible.

[@austinlange1410]

I gotta say, I absolutely love the new SSBB intros these days! Keep up the great content!

[@lclark209]

While I do miss Tomer and Andrew, I'm so happy Phil is a part of the commander clash crew

[@lclark209]

Just got to the ala-cooters moment! 🤣 oh Seth, you so silly

[@mattrogers77]

This x 1,000

[@ThomasJohnsen2]

I love Seth and I absolutely adore Crim, but seeing that Kormus Bell in Richard's deck means that for today's episode, I will be rooting for him. One of my favorite cards from when I was young.

[@ringoderbar1522]

When Seth was having the infinite combo with Archon, Phil could have waited with his Swords until Seth had the same amount of tokens as cards in Phils library. And with Meathook Massacre, Phil would have drawn his whole deck

[@Meister_Gurkensalat]

Translating "clash on" to German is pretty hard. My best guess would be something like "Der Konflikt geht weiter!"

[@quaroaquilinusbarfing9700]

It‘s difficult to translate it literally, so I would wander off a bit: „Aufprall!“ has a good ring to it… :)

[@a.b.2723]

Note to self: never pay the one This episode featured two of my favorite moments this season Spoilers The Mana Tithe and the Angel's Grace

[@regail7143]

Bro, Richard needs to build a deck focused on punishing the cc crews bad edh habits.

[@kingfuzzy2]

Something like Seth's will you pay the 1 tribal politics deck he brought a few months ago would be great

[@soratu4216]

I’m sad no one ended up playing the deck of many things or built around it, although it’s a “target opponent loses the game” instead of a you win the game card but I absolutely love it. I built an Eruth deck around it and it’s one of my favorite decks and it’s so much fun :)

[@rosavanopheusden5211]

the irony of richard paying for rhystic study and as a result not being able to cast opposition agent into the demonic tutor...

[@rosavanopheusden5211]

also good LORD crim handing out that free threshold was cringe

[@AustinMerfeld]

I just wanna say I really like your call to action, it is not too intrusive, but does remind me to like the video.

[@ComfyDents]

Clash on! ---german---> Aufeinanderprall angeschaltet? :P

[@RyuPlaneswalker]

The win here was great, I've use that combo in one of my decks and I always giggle when I get to pull it off. Also you don't deck yourself with Lich's Mastery, you can't lose the game.

[@TheChibidono]

This game was so wild! Super nice! Clash on!

[@chadcharest9891]

Me: Wait, it's all just White Weenie? Richard: It always was.

[@selfmarv]

I think pathways are great espacially when you pair them with bounce lands! The vibe in your group is so nice to watch. Even crim was happy about Mana Tithe (kind of) Couldn´t Phil have eliminated a player at 1:25:00 with bouncing Out of time Double Strike Attack with the Angel to go to 55 life?

[@BrewersKitchen]

Hmm yeah, maybe I'm missing something but I think that could have done it. Kinda stange that no one saw the line xD

[@singularleaf3895]

No because as soon as he did Richard could activate cleanse and destroy all enchantments, which everything was at the time. Voidwalker was the whole reason Phil didn't try to bounce out of time several times he could have.

[@Kryptnyt]

@@singularleaf3895 Cleansing Meditation is a sorcery, and Dauthi Voidwalker doesn't allow you to bypass speed restrictions with the stuff you cast with him. (In addition, there's a Teferi in play, making it impossible for both opponents to cast instants. It seems like a pretty safe play to make.)

[@singularleaf3895]

@@Kryptnyt did not know that about void walker, but I also don't play with or against him normally.

[@representativejoints1188]

At 14:00 I watch Phil discard a destroy opponents wincons spell, seeing an attempt to outpace them and use his. I watch in suspense from there.

[@JohnSmith-hs9ez]

Richard's Opening hand looked rough. I know it technically had the bala ged recovery but still two taplands and then you might have to DT for the third land.

[@MrKennethb83]

Richard lol Look look (drops plains ) ON THE BOARD BABY !!

[@NaviTheMD]

Loved this game, finally someone showing some good plays, grats Phil. To bad didnt got to see crims or richard deck

[@gabriellecureux5528]

I love how Richard has just been playing white aggro with a bit of different flavors the past couple weeks

[@JohnSmith-hs9ez]

I have just seen the trailer: but how in the world is seth winning with Hedron Alignment, I don't think its possible in EDH?

[@RobiousIllyrian]

There’s *technically* another way he could win with Hedron Alignment

[@kingfuzzy2]

Voltron ( :

[@returnoftheduelist9790]

Snarls, the new innistrad land cycle, and pathways are solid af. Snow duals, ar also top tier especially for budget. Literally if you have the innistrad duals, the battlebond lands, and some kind of snarl or untappable dual, your mana base is set. Maybe slow fetches in 3 color plus but fetches are literally unnecessary for mono and 2 colors, especially when we have myriad landscape and terramorphic expanse. Ppl forget they are fetches just cuz they arent the $20+ versions that are literally for cedh and 5 color good stuff.

[@jamesmoore1317]

I agree, their view is biased because they don't play enough basics. I remember in one game someone was using Sword of the Animist and they failed to find with two basics on the board and one in hand.

[@adamfiliatreault3393]

I love how salty Crim is because everyone else understood the assignment - build alternate win con decks and stop others' win cons. Loved how synergistic Phil's, Seth's, and Richard's decks were. It was so fun to watch them build their win conditions. It was also great to see Crim have to play against the power level he usually brings to the table

[@tims.8318]

clash on as a word to word translation would be something like: weiter Zusammenstoßen. but if you want to make sound more resonable i would say: das Gefächt/der Kampf beginnt

[@kingfuzzy2]

Love this alt wins wer what I built all my commander decks around until recently. Curious now what the clash on crew will think about my Vish kal blood arbiter upkeep tribal with all of the alt wincons in it deck 🤔

[@MapWryte]

Spoilers, I guess: The Mana Tithe: 18:05 The Pact Stack: 1:00:55 Hedron Auto-Telepathy: 1:09:25 Approach No. 1: 1:35:24 Approach No. 2 (The End?): 1:37:24 Clearly Hedron Alignment is better than Rhystic Study and Smothering Tithe combined.

[@tthakshmm3349]

1:23:13 when Phil realizes he paid for the smothering tithe. 🤣🤣

[@NMS127]

What was Seth thinking would happen with the Cleansing Meditation? He could cast Replenish after, but it would only get back the actual enchantments. So it would be like resetting the game except he has Rhystic Study and his commander phased out by Out of Time.

[@aurabullet4128]

I love Seths supposedly hated play. Thank you for the great game. Lol

[@whaleofdarkness]

Rules question: If you turn Hedron Alignment into a basic land in response to the upkeep trigger do you win the game if you have a copy of that basic land in hand, graveyard, and exile? I know that if you use Sakashima the Impostor with cards that refer to their name that you use Sakashima's name instead so it should work. If true there are a bunch of spells that can achieve that.

[@matthugenberg8869]

No because that only changes the cards name on the board. It still is always looking for "a card named hedron alignment", which is different from when a card makes reference to itself in a text box

[@dorkydarkrai7874]

Gotta love how this episodes theme is win the game but holy moly did it take them long to finish the game xD

[@poipoi9816]

well done modo, a 2 hour game and it barely stuttered!

[@MrKennethb83]

Phil - interaction king 👑

[@alecolson8360]

18:00 best part of the game

[@ebonezra8073]

Come on, Phil! Use your imagination: "Den Kampf beginnen!" ...I think is a good translation.

[@whaleofdarkness]

I don't know, "Clash on" is more like "Keep on clashing" similar to "fight on!", isn't it? So "Kämpft weiter!" or "Die Fehde geht weiter" fits better. "Fehde" is actually the word used for the clash ability on German magic cards.

[@Crunchatize_Me_Senpai]

@@whaleofdarkness “Kämpft Weiter!” has such a badass ring to it

[@Suppaichu]

1:25:20 - didn't phil just have the win bouncing the out of time here? he gets the angel back, mana drains the cleansing meditation, gets the exacly 55 life and wins with the angel. Actually... does teferi even let dauthi cast the card? i hate teferi so much, i think it stops that as well..

[@NMS127]

Dauthi says you may play the card this turn, so you don't play it during the ability resolution and Teferi doesn't stop it. However, you can only play sorceries with it during your own main phase (with or without Teferi).

[@Jimmythehead]

Me: *assumes approach will win easily* Also me: *sees 30 min left of gameplay*

[@jfb-]

Here's my land cycle tier list: S: Duals, shocks, fetches A: All other untapped lands B: Bouncelands and triomes C: Basic lands F: All other taped lands

[@Ricardo-zo1ti]

Great episode!

[@xdavid00]

Phil has became a fusion of Crim and Seth; Crim's decks and not paying for Rhystic Study :P

[@urschniwurschni8603]

Weiterkämpfen!

[@BrewersKitchen]

Oh right, that's probably the simplest way to phase it

[@thirdwavefinance8154]

Hilariously good 🙌🏼

[@returnoftheduelist9790]

Crim you are 100% right; opposition agent should be a mainstay in casual to ward off tutoring and fetches that should see play in cedh. Also yes crim, you made a truly casual alt win con deck to face off 2 inherently cedh commanders from phil and seth…….i feel your pain i too make many budget and casual decks to then try to be pubstomped by others who feel threatened im just sitting at the table. This is why cedh and edh need to be separate formats and let anything go in cedh, but have more bans so edh is healthy.

[@kalster11]

This seems like a prime opportunity to play Platinum Angel

[@felixgunawan9336]

I like more interaction from phil

[@kingfuzzy2]

Vengeance for the risen reef.

[@Mr.Kronk2]

Seths deck is just all my most hated cards in a pile

[@twoinone_]

CLASH ON!!

[@johnathanreynolds1108]

When is viewer submitted week coming up!?

[@Niuttuc]

It's next week's episode, already been recorded!

[@tonker2k724]

Can anyone tell me why the opening music is so familiar im losing my mind here

[@supranova7594]

Its super smash bros brawl theme

[@tonker2k724]

@@supranova7594 thanks

[@jangrokortenhaus3036]

clash on would literally mean "aufeinanderprallen" in german :D

[@Dragiceoriginal]

Phil my best guess for Clash On would be Anzusammenstoß which kind of carries the same gist, but I don't think German has a non-violent translation of "clash" so it... doesn't ring quite the same

[@aztecemperor1536]

When they rehire Tomer I hope they do a Keyword tribal week but with the keywords with less of a cardpool

[@grevious9816]

How does Seth actually win with hedron alignment? Or is it just there as a meme ?

[@alaraplatt8104]

opalescence

[@kingfuzzy2]

Voltron ( :

[@grevious9816]

Oh I see

[@teafordaniel809]

Someone who's better at magic then me, please help he answer this question. Around the 1:26:00 mark, could Phil have used Teferi to bounce Out of Time, and try to attack with angel to get that win con. Richard would use voidwalker, but the thing I was wondering is could Phil then just mana drain the cleansing meditation? I hope this play is possible, cuz that would be an amazing way to win.

[@mightyone3737]

Pathways are secretly among the best of the non-fetchable duals, but I wouldn't be eager to play them in a 4 or 5 colour deck. I think you might want to run them in land heavier decks, so you're less likely to be screwed by one. Having 'ways to win' and yet being completely helpless sounds like my Simic deck when it draws bad. Having a deck that's more or less all combo pieces is find and good, but if you draw 3-4 of the same combo piece and none of the other pieces, it's really bad. For some reason it's always the bloody Moonfolk, and never the 'tap: put a land into play' dorks. I'd run more tutors, but I'm already running 9 various tutors, and it's pretty much the pricey ones left like Wordly Tutor. It's a fun experience sometimes, having a deck that swings from turn 3 win to durdling until I lose to aggro. Zur is one of the craziest Commanders ever printed, with the possible exception of SIsay, in part because she can find Zur (or other tutors on a stick). Zur is lower to the ground, but is more dependent on drawing a wincon eventually (very few entire wincons can be Zured out, but half of tons can be), Sisay really just wants lots of fast mana, and it has to be coloured. AAAAHHH!!! Opposition Agent is THE most annoying card vs Zur IMHO... it was like they realized that Mind-Censor could be played around by including lots of enchantment-based removal, and you'll hit him first try usually. Opposition Agent requires you to run +10 instant speed answers to reliably have one for when it comes out, or no Necro for you, and no Rule of Law to make sure people can't combo. At this point Zur is a cEDH table's best friend since he can power out an uncounterable Rule of Law, and that makes things more fair. I clearly have no biases here! I don't actually hate eminence, and I more than a little wish they'd make an eminence Commander that has a drawback for it's eminence, which turns into an upside when they're actually out, to help balance them/incentive removing them. Do people really hate Tomer's Ur Dragon deck, it's all about that Eminence, and it seems like a fun enough deck. I think Edgar is tedious, but 1/1s aren't exactly gamebreaking in EDH, but it can be Johnnied pretty easily. Free Life is cool and synergizes well potentially, but it's a tiny buff if it isn't. I don't think Defense Grid is really a cEDH card? It's good in Casual vs people playing lots of instants, but it's really problematic when you play it and can't stop other people from comboing off, and the best way to do that is usually going to be instants, which are penalized. ...I think Crim made the right choice here (his deck is laughable compared to what Seth and Phil brought), looking forward to his Clash On!, which will surely be heartfelt. Also, very much in the Big Troll Energy to use an alternative loss condition to exit the alternate wincon game. Interaction tends to make for more exciting games. I have what is somewhat a weenie deck, and it runs a few creatures that can repeatedly deal with a creature, to make up for the inherent weakness of smaller creatures. I also have a Sisay deck I'm working on that is low on interaction, and just wants to 'do Shrines', so it's built around that, and hopes the Shrines and some pillowfort will keep me alive long enough to start doing silly things. That's also pretty memorable, if someone uses Esix with Honden of Life's Web to make an army of Bloom Tenders, that'll stick out I think.

[@timott3680]

Am i wrong or shouldn't Phil have simply cast his own Angel's Grace after Approach to stop anybody else casting spells? He should be able to hold priority and do that correct?

[@Ricardo-zo1ti]

Then Richard just lets the Grace resolve and then casts his own Grace in response to the Approach, right?

[@timott3680]

@@Ricardo-zo1ti you are correct. I misunderstood how split second works 😂

[@kingfuzzy2]

Heliods intervention was missed way too much to bring back 3feri and to stop card draw.

[@TMidander]

1:01:45 is my moment of Zen. :)

[@McArRuIzO]

If scrying is about half a card's worth of value, then from what I saw here, Hedron Alignment was basically Rhystic Study.

[@RodrigoCML7]

Would the German term for Clash On be Blitzkrieg? I am so sorry btw

[@patarfuifui]

Clash on!

[@maudin8]

Thank you Phil for doing what Richard should of last week.

[@damnjekyll]

Is Phil Swedish?? I swear the ideas this man comes with even on a regular deck building basis is superbly unique!! I must know where the brains grow so wrinkly. xD

[@KranichProductions]

German for Clash On? Well it means "Der Konflikt geht weiter"? But that does not really sound as punchy...

[@BrewersKitchen]

Yeah I couldn't come up with a snappy way to phrase it in german since it needs more then two words

[@infolehrersadlo8448]

If you Take the German Translation for the Magic mechanic Clash it would bei something Like: "Es ist Zeit sich zu befehden!"

[@decakebaker]

I run epic struggle in my Sythis deck as an alt win con because I make a lot of tokens in that deck lol

[@gfhgfhfhgfhfhgf]

I think Phil made a really deck while staying on flavor.Kudos for the win. May you inspire us all to play.more interaction

[@Eli-jr8wb]

If you don't get to blow up stuff using your karmic justice, then its' done it's job 🤣

[@shammerHammer]

Meine deutsche Version von Clash On: Losgeclasht!

[@TheHuktuk]

YEAAAHHHH Mana Tithe !!! XD

[@leveloct882]

Been running karmic for years… it’s really annoying tho.

[@marsmandel42]

Maybe "Konfliktstart" or "beginnt die Fede"

[@jfrizzell6645]

Almost as bad as Chaos week!

[@jckleme]

Mana Tithe MVP

[@jamescooley5241]

I'm here in the comments to yell at Seth 😉😉😉

[@RPGFanboy14]

I think its hilarious how Richard is doing everything in his power to stop Phil to help seth win....when Seth is the reason Richard isn't playing the game. LOL

[@DamienE11]

I'm amazed that game didn't crash modo

[@Snowjiggles]

This would be my excuse to play my Sedris deck where I try to win with Mortal Combat

[@Niehm]

Phil with enchantment destruction the whole game and yet complains the whole game about the enchantments 🤣

[@KellyUnekis]

Wieder Zusammenstossen?

[@SP-ik6cc]

Why couldnt Phil counter the Angels Grace with Mana Drain?

[@rockerknight25]

Every time they talk about the snarls being "unplayable" I flash back to the dozens/hundreds of times they've been mana screwed because they run all the nonbasic lands. If you run basics the snarls are fine.

[@GermyBrownHair]

Kämpfe jetzt!

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

To Crim's dismay he should have played ramp to even do any good with that get 100 counters to win the game card

[@peterhardiman7333]

The big mystery this week is why did Seth choose to play propaganda and ghostly prison in his 99.....

[@AviarkXIII]

People need to treat rhysic study like a Thalia effect...

[@overlordcacius]

Oh I'm building a deck to win by forcing my opponents to cast the pact cards now.

[@kingfuzzy2]

Disgusting I love it

[@singularleaf3895]

Don't forget to add phage, works better then even the pacts.

[@overlordcacius]

@@singularleaf3895 naw. I have an avatar tribal deck with scion where I can one punch people with serra avatar and phage lol

[@aronb.1273]

Fierce guardianship in an olor deck HMMMM

[@SmugLookingBarrel]

And this is why you need to be very careful with MLD

[@edkolbe1850]

I'm at a loss with the German translation of "Clash on." Sorry, I can not help.

[@isostat16]

My German is rusty at best, but I think it could be "gehen zusammenstoßen"? Go clash/conflict

[@shadedcorner]

Talk about decks I would hate to play against. My hatred of esper has been confirmed by this episode

[@roco3457]

you can't be mad at getting got by mana tithe

[@petrsevcik5044]

I play guildgates because of Circuitous Route

[@dragonbreath4638]

them saying "I guess Crim wins because he died to an alternate win con" made me think of something interesting, Opposite week. Basically the goal is to die first and that is what determines standing order. One rule would be no Pact cards since those are turn 1 "win"

[@anix712]

Red's extra turn spells (Final Fortune, Last Chance, etc.) would probably need to go too, otherwise you're just trading a turn 1 "I lose" into a turn 2 "I lose."

[@dragonbreath4638]

@@anix712 forgot about those, on that note maybe all cards that simply say "you lose the game" should be on there (door to nothingness would be an exception because of the cost. I am suddenly realizing how easy it is to lose lol