What if the Bronze Age Collapse Never Happened?

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Civilization may feel like its ending. But there was a time where it really actually did. A time before the Romans, Greeks or Parthians that was forgotten until modern archeology. The Bronze Age. So what if the Bronze Age collapse never actually happened and the societies from it continued onward? Here is one scenario.
Twitter: / althistoryhub
Patreon: / alternatehistoryhub

[@tjoconnell2524]

Fun fact: the earliest peace treaty comes from this period. Well, before the collapse anyway.

[@juanfranciscovillarroelthu6876]

WE SHALL HAVE PEACE BROTHER!!

[@heathdionne7717]

If I recall correctly, wasn't it like immediately before the collapse too?

[@KaguroDraven]

It wasn't just a peace treaty, it was as close as you get to an outright Alliance. Including provisions for aid in the event one of them is attacked, or suffered famine or plague. Provisions that had to be acted upon when the Hittites got a plague that swept through their empire, and Egypt(Under Ramses II, the Pharaoh who signed the agreements) did their part.

[@jcheck1107]

But that was from two civilizations that collapsed quickly

[@thirstyserpent1079]

@@heathdionne7717 The collapse was preceded by plagues spreading from Egypt to the hittitts via prisoners taken in a war which killed massive numbers of people, at the same time there was I believe a drought and subsequent economic collapse which then lead to law and order collapsing and this in turn led to trade decreasing further as it wasn't safe for merchants. The sea people basically arrived at an extremely inopportune moment.

[@CocoHutzpah]

The Mycenaeans would have conquered all of Europe because, as we all know, they had giant robots.

[@gilzineto]

What?

[@horatiuscocles8052]

@@gilzineto According to Greek Mythology the Mycenaeans had mountain sized mechanized warriors and there's also a SCP about that

[@ncrvako]

@@gilzineto he is talking about the talos myth.

[@isaiahkerstetter3142]

Death is a preferable alternative to Hellenisation!

[@ncrvako]

@@isaiahkerstetter3142 well, considering that the minoans hd similar dna with the mycaneams, at worst would be considered the invasion on canada.

[@peterroberts4415]

Everything changed when the Sea Peoples attacked

[@shaider1982]

Were they identified? They sort of sounded like what Mongols are on land.

[@Charok1]

peter is making an Avatar joke, haha

[@thompsonator4696]

@@shaider1982 they were from the great nation of Sealand. The great principality was much bigger back then; they used to rule all of the Seas in all of the land. Then the ground people came and well I think I'm going to start to cry.......

[@lordblenkinsopp1537]

shaider1982 historians believe that they were possibly Sardinians and Corsicans, or even Sicilians. They have been given names, thanks to Egyptian records. They may have been fleeing environmental change.

[@rogueascendant6611]

The Sea People were a complete enigma. They just pillage and plundered a lot of coastal settlement and cities and disappeared on the horizon like they never exist. They are likely the early form of Vikings but more brutal.

[@panqueque445]

We're all be watching this on our bronze computers.

[@Jobe-13]

😂

[@outdose9997]

Shounico you anime pfp nerds are more common.

[@Kentucky_Caveman]

@Shounico I've never seen it before

[@MrAranton]

Bronze is an umbrella term for alloys composed of mostly copper. The conductive tracks on circuit boards often are copper with metals put into the mix to prevent corrosion and/or optimize the flow of electrical current. So in a way you already ARE watching this on a bronze computer.

[@notlucas6859]

@@MrAranton nani?!?

[@kuroazrem5376]

This is one of the most interesting yet ignored periods in history.

[@romulus2473]

Is it ignored, or just hard to have conversations about a time when like a third of the ancient world just disappeared like practically overnight?

[@rapanuikapu904]

ignored by the vast population? yes. but then again the vast population doesn't have too much appreciation for world history. I do think that among those of us who really enjoy history, it is not ignored in the slightest.

[@aurelia8028]

Totally agree. I have heard about this sudden collapse before, but haven't really read that much about it, and just considering it a neat couriosity but now, after this video, I find it utterly fascinating how these great ancient societies could be destroyed in such a short time span leaving absolutely no trace that could definitively answer how it happened, what went down and I definitely wanna learn more about this period now.

[@karelpgbr]

Well, here in Holland, we barely talk about the Cold War, European tensions (Ireland in the 1980s and Bosnia are examples of what we don’t learn about, we remember Srebrenica, but don’t learn, we only learn about Holland, we skim over the American history, as such goes for the Russian history, but East Asia (Chinese Dynasties, Japanese Empires.) South-East Asia (Indonesia, which was a colony, yet we don’t learn.) As for the World Wars, oh boy, we barely talk about the first, purely because we were neutral, but there’s so much info there. The second is basically just, Jews and racism, that’s it, no Pacific Theatre, no East-front, I could go on for ages.

[@cheesypoohalo]

@@karelpgbr Similar case here in the UK. I remember learning about the Romans, the medieval period, and WW2, along with specific British history (Henry VIII, the Tudors, etc.), but very little about world history that didn't effect my country in some way. We basically learnt nothing about Asia, and when learning about World War 2 we weren't taught about Japan invading China and such, it was almost entirely the European theatre and some brief history regarding Pearl Harbour, Americas use of nuclear bombs, and the end of the war. In my opinion, very few people learn any history that occurred in the BC's, and if they learn anything it will only be the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans, or something specific to where they live (e.g. Japanese students may learn about ancient Japan). The Late Bronze Age Collapse is a very niche topic for most people.

[@slyninja4444]

Linear B is essentially the European equivalent of Japanese. A mix of syllabic and logographic writing.

[@Drakewood]

Imagine western Kanji... We really dodged a bullet!

[@maxwellli7057]

Its giving me old Chinese vibes

[@denisiodiderotti._.6962]

@the Achaean bruh, just the latin alphabet changes in every country of Europe, just imagine if it was like the Japanese one. Bruh

[@spartanrage1963]

Useless fact: when i pressed like the total number of likes is the equivelant of the block height limit in minecraft.

[@CanariasCanariass]

@the Achaean Isnt Bulgarian also phonetic? As far as I know each letter will always represent the same sound, no matter which sound came before or afterwards.

[@pergys6991]

As far as I can understand, picto graphy won’t just be a nightmare limited to Asia

[@thepedrothethethe6151]

Actually having records of the Troyan War is a great bonus

[@slyninja4444]

Linear B is essentially the European equivalent of Japanese. A mix of syllabic and logographic writing.

[@demoscassi8055]

Many asian cultures threw away the chinese characters IRL because it is a pain. I believe in such timelines, there must be someone who like" fuxx this pictogram let do something else" and invent somethings easier. After millenia, someone else might think the same and start copying such concept.

[@sinoroman]

koreans invented hangul in the early modern age, but didn't adopt it completely until the collapse of joseon. japanese added more to the chinese characters they were using, so that happened. vietnamese adopted latin letters with extra steps for reasons. ryukyu got absorbed by japan. no one else really used chinese characters

[@demoscassi8055]

In this 'no bronze age collapse' timeline, the vietnamese would not have had the oppotunities to use the alphabet(since it would not exist). I wonder what kind of character would they use.

[@jacobtrowbridge7223]

I'd like to imagine Egypt and the Hittite state (or maybe more accurately their successors) becoming the modern equivalent of Britain and France, or Russia and Germany - no two nations with so much war, peace, allegiance, culture, history and intricacy between them.

[@oliverkiernan4997]

The Motherland, Hittite Empire Heil Pharaoh God save our gracious Pharaoh 'Ello, ah comm fromm zee 'Ittite Empire

[@poyo2375]

or like USSR and USA?

[@jacobtrowbridge7223]

@@poyo2375 Not exactly. Britain and France have intertwined culture and millennia of history and war. America and Russia are really only rivals as of 1946.

[@waltervanbrunchem2462]

@@jacobtrowbridge7223 that is mostly because the US and USSR were relatively new powers, whilst Britain and France have been big players in the European theatre since medieval times.

[@jacobtrowbridge7223]

@@waltervanbrunchem2462 That’s... exactly my point

[@Darth_Insidious]

Civilisation is 12,000 years old. We only know about a third of that history. Imagine all that was lost and forgotten.

[@latev9973]

Just like whats going to happen in the present

[@The360MlgNoscoper]

The library of alexandria got burnt down. All knowledge we gather will be lost.

[@1320crusier]

that we know of

[@michaelkulakov9716]

Prolly just a bunch of folks farming and drinking when they had time off.

[@MrAlepedroza]

@@The360MlgNoscoperThat's an urban myth: Actually, most of the information in that library had already been copied to many other libraries in the Roman empire by the time the library was burnt....or do you really think those scribes and scholars wasted their time? Most of what was lost there was probably and most likely not that significant., since the most important works would have been copied first. Nowadays, we have way more advanced ways to store information and are less likely to collapse than those early civilizations. Don't be such a doomer. The lockdown will end eventually, mate

[@peculiarpangolin4638]

"Imagine you wanted to learn German, but you needed to memorize entirely new characters and symbols." Well, I think my required learning of the Fractur script has got you covered!

[@vexaris1890]

But Fraktur isn't different characters and symbols apart from the long s.. and that's something that isn't unique to german. Try something like Sütterlin (a different german script), that's a bit harder.

[@NetherTaker]

Japanese: "Konnichiwa soko ni"

[@jcheck1107]

I can’t imagine a continuous civilization that never had some sort of collapse in ancient history, I’d have to doubt Mycanea could have lasted 1000 years

[@arhamshahid5015]

Rome lasted pretty long ,up until the ottoman in fact.Why couldn't have the Greeks done the same?

[@Patman0074]

I think they could, in the absence of a persian empire I think it's very possible. Especially if theyre the hegimon in the area

[@thewildcardperson]

Arham Shahid think about this if Alexander the Great has a little more for thought into who would succeed him the Macedonians could of been Rome they had it all before right before Rome took it all from them do to infighting

[@lucasterrasemnomezuado3785]

The Chinese civilization remained unchanged for more than a thousand years, although you may say they imploded various times,but the basis for their civilization was the same until the xinhai revolution

[@freebutterfree4872]

It’s scary to think that the u.s. will collapse eventually

[@TheMonkeygoneape]

to give context for the "brother" relationship between The Egyptians and Hittites, based off of a mix of Armarna letters and Hitttite record, they would refer to themselves in letters as "Brother", "Uncle" and "Nephew" and it was pretty much a way of addressing eachother's rank (Brothers were equal, Uncle was superior and Nephew was inferior")

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

Tired of using lame, sad metal? Introducing *bronze!* Made from special ingredient tin from the far lands of Tin Land. I don't know, my dealer won't tell me where he gets it

[@frenchsoldier8485]

*Grabs steel sword* SMITE! *cuts comment in half*

[@ragingshibe]

also guess what: *_EGYPT_*

[@thehistoryguy987]

Avery the Cuban-American that was a glorious video

[@JanBork]

Bill wurtz

[@tlshortyshorty5810]

*We should make a religion out of this*

[@Crick1952]

Things that make me cry 1. Burning of the Library of Alexandria 2. Bronze Age Collapse 3. Fall of Constantinople

[@EricEsenwine]

4. Chopping onions

[@Abby_Liu]

the library was barely burnt cmon

[@perseusofmacedon6918]

Death of Alexander the Great

[@generalgrievous2440]

@@perseusofmacedon6918 Ha, more like Alexander the Dead

[@shzarmai]

5) Destruction of the house of Baghdad*

[@yodef6828]

I would just like to go to a parallel universe in which the collapse of the bronze age didn't happen and just see and learn how history, culture and geopolitics are in that world, and the closest thing we have to that are this kind of videos, so i guess, thank you.

[@AndrewHalliwell]

I imagine they'd have flying cars by now, but you'd have no way to understand their language or cultural memes. Wave your hand in the wrong way and you could be in trouble.

[@masonsykes2240]

@@AndrewHalliwell Their internet memes would also likely be incomprehensible to us as well

[@wirelessbluestone5983]

Society would be highly organized with most people working on farms for the King’s family pretty much a more extreme version of serfdom. All aspects of trade and food production would be monitored and documented by the state. Overall there would be a wide gap between the elites and the farmers and slaves. The Bronze Age Collapse destroyed centralization on the local level.

[@christiandauz3742]

Society would also be less warlike and much more technologically advanced. A balance of power between empires Industrial Revolution by 1120 BCE!

[@Ozymandias1]

@@christiandauz3742 Interstellar flight and space colonies by 500 BCE!

[@timothyhadrian7187]

You most definitely need a Part 2 of this video focusing on the Western Celtic And Germanic Tribes of the Bronze Age.

[@gojira4036]

* MALI has entered the chat

[@shzarmai]

Yep, also how this affects the religious landscape of the world, how it affects Lybia, Kush/Nubia, the Land of Punt, Saba/Himyar in Yemen, and how it affects the Nordic Bronze Age culture who had close trading links with Mycenaean Greece plus how it affects China especially it's Dynasties would be fascinating.

[@shzarmai]

I recommend you watch the Bronze Age Collapse what if video by the KZbinr "Planet Althistory".

[@shzarmai]

Also I think Illyrians and Dacians would use linear B-derived writing systems imo

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

Bronze? No way, I’d rather have gold. Gold for all my Olympians

[@justasingledoor5178]

Supreme leader

[@jessechannel4626]

what if your account was verified

[@DogWalkerBill]

In summary: If everything was different, everything would be different.

[@BatCostumeGuy]

2 differents make something that isn't different.

[@c-money9623]

The classical Greeks knew of the Mycenaeans and thought themselves successors. But I've always wondered if the Mycenaeans knew of the Minoans.

[@Kingdomkey123678]

They were around at the same time and international trade was a thing back then. So yes they knew each other

[@theunreadyone]

Personally I think they were enemies, which explains why the Minotaur was considered evil in Greek mythology. That’s just my personal head canon though

[@xTheacefrehleyx]

Not only they knew, they invaded Crete and took most of it from the minoans, who survived in a few pocket areas with their own culture (most of the rest were either killed, or integrated into mycenaean society, the new rulers of the place.).

[@danieb52]

I'm not 100% sure of this but I could've sworn that I read in some journal that there is now sufficient evidence to conclude that the Minoans and Mycenaeans were closely related to each other and to modern Greeks Edit: Nvm I found a Smithsonian article from 2017: www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dna-analysis-sheds-light-mysterious-origins-ancient-greeks-180964314/

[@alejoalfonso1459]

The Myceneans invaded the Minoans around 1400

[@-lgoonareternall-3772]

You’re my favorite channel. That is all.

[@chsgrate5362]

Indeed

[@freebutterfree4872]

lol so true

[@benbarltrop2006]

Yes

[@potatodirt4244]

It's my favorite channel to

[@skiefirestar]

Mine too, I wish youd produce more videos though 😣

[@iratami]

I could definitely see a sylabery lasting longer in a history where Liniar B survived. Though with the phonetic complexity of many European languages I do think it would simplify into an alphabet at some point. That is assuming the languages evolve similarly to how they did in the current timeline, which isnt likely without the bronze age collapse. So even the spoken language in modern day would be quite different. Year one thrown back a good 3-5k years. Welcome to the new year 5020 or even 7020

[@Crick1952]

It's actually theorized by linguists that Chinese and Japanese/Korean changed and became more syllabic because of their writing systems. I could easily see this happening with European languages as well (look at the Indo-Iranian branch for example) This could be compensated for through tones, stricter syntax, polymorphism (letting words get longer [like Germanic languages already do]), ect Really fascinating stuff

[@jonnunn4196]

It fact, it's the year 6770 on the Assyrian Calendar and either 7528 or 7529 on the Byzantine Calendar

[@iratami]

@@jonnunn4196 I'm surprised I was as close as I was for a random shot in the dark.

[@iratami]

@@Crick1952 that is certainly interesting. I guess it's a bit strange to think how a writing system effects spoken language instead of the other way around. But it makes sense. It's easier for a language to drift without something more permanant holding it in place. Standardizing language the more widespread literacy becomes. Just a few hundred years ago you could travel across a "nation" and the language would drift from region to region until it was basically a new language. French slowly turning German turning Russian turning Mongolian simply as a consequence of needing to speak with your neighbors. So if you where near a border and far from the capital you would speak a kind of mixed creole. And might not understand the "purer" form of either language.

[@mattydraps8280]

@@Crick1952 I'm just replying so I stay notified on this interesting thread, thanks for your input

[@uiytresen346]

Expected a conspiracy, got a head cannon.

[@FortoFight]

It should be neither.

[@matheussanthiago9685]

@@FortoFight nah, headcanons are fun

[@CynicalOldDwarf]

But did you get Orange or Lemon-Lime?

[@axdillingham6658]

Terrific video!!!! This an historical event I'm super curious about. Just a quick note, the Jewish Temple that was built after the Babylonian exile was the Second Temple. The First Temple was the one before that. But, you're right about how a lot of the Old Testament of the Bible (or Tanakh for Jews) was written while the Jewish priests and elites were being held in exile in Babylon.

[@apalahartisebuahnama7684]

Why is it so controversial? Lots of comments actually saying about "shady" stuffs but i don't understand

[@selahanany5645]

well the first temple wasnt "jewish" it was built before the creation of the kingdoms of israel and judea.

[@CanuckGod]

To that last point, arguments persist as to whether or not those portions were written during the exile and early post-exile or just collated during that time. The German critics of the 19th century - and later liberal theologians - seemed to think they were written at that time, but there's no good evidence to say whether or not that was the case, and thus the debate still continues. In any event, everyone does agree that the basis of the complete form the Tanakh/Old Testament was around the time of Ezra, roughly 400 BC or so. Also, kudos for pointing out the post-exile temple was the Second Temple... as great as Cody is with his historical tidbits, he probably should've double-checked that one.

[@mithrae4525]

@@CanuckGod He might have been confused by the fact that probably the majority of references to "second temple Judaism" focus on the Roman era/Herod's temple.

[@pinkpantherisalegend5607]

If the Bronze Age never collapsed, the world would always be in third place.

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

*slow clap*

[@rohanr.9714]

Took me a minute to get that, but good one

[@ronjayrose9706]

I don't get it?

[@Abby_Liu]

comedy bronze!

[@The360MlgNoscoper]

Gold is older!

[@1blackice1]

Kurzgesagt did a video on the Holocene calendar, which is a calendar that just adds 10,000 years to our current AD years. Putting us in year 12,020. The reason for this is that aprox. 10,000 years ago agriculture was started in the first civilizations started to form. Really puts into perspective how long human civilization has been around. Kurzgesagt also made some neat looking calendars for it which I have too!

[@westernstealth873]

Approximately 10,000 years ago was the construction of the oldest structure (it’s in Anatolia), not agriculture, which would be another 2,000-3,000 years later

[@winged_destro]

You’re saying “civilization”, while the only evidence existing for this period is archaeological and suggests that it was a couple of guys planting some seeds to eat, which isn’t equivalent to real civilization, though it is *possible* civilization existed during this period, there’s just no evidence

[@seanhartnett79]

True.

[@howto7755]

It’s really interesting learning about Bronze Age civilisation. Most pop history only seems to go back to the classical era.

[@vladprus4019]

So basically Mycaneans used wirting system has simmilar features as Japanese writing. Interesting.

[@potflower4136]

I was about to comment that... but did the Myceneans have *two* syllable systems that do the exact same thing?

[@TheKalihiMan]

Pot Flower The two syllabaries in written Japanese don’t do “the exact same thing”. They represent the same syllables, yes, but they serve two completely different functions. Hiragana is used to represent things such as grammatical particles and phonetically write Japanese words, while Katakana is used to phonetically represent foreign-derived words. Because of how Japanese phonology works, it is necessary for clarity to use these two systems to differentiate between Japanese words and foreign ones.

[@Abby_Liu]

@@TheKalihiMan meh. if you used all hiragana, with the power of context, you could probably get away with it.

[@Joshua-hz3cl]

@@Abby_Liu that would be like trying to write the English language with a third of the symbols missing. It would be possible but instead of "wow" it would be "wuiw" lmao

[@annaabrams8738]

So did the Babylonian and Assyrian cuneiform script

[@BaoHadir]

God, just learning this little bit about Linear B makes my brain want to leak out of my ears. Seems overly complicated and clunky. English catches a lot of flack for its writing rules, but the character languages just seem...inefficient. Probably just my own bias.

[@ungefiezergreeter6034]

Linear B is not a logography. It’s a syllabary. Yes still inefficient with Greek, but not a “character system”.

[@matheussanthiago9685]

I can't be the only one who thought it's actually quite similar to modern day Japanese writing system you have an (two actually) "alphabet" of sorts for syllables phonemes and a whole other symbolic system to represent ideias of their own

[@IchorX]

Not really your own bias, it's definitely less effective.

[@im_sorry_i_forgot_my_username]

Yeah, Linear B is super similar to how modern-day Japanese works. Almost identical, actually.

[@109Rage]

For some languages, it's actually "simpler" and more "efficient" to use a syllabary over an alphabet, because an alphabet wastes a bunch of space on letters that are otherwise super common. Alphabets are only really useful for two reasons: 1) for languages like English which have waaaay too many consonant clusters and vowels (some dialects have 19 vowels) where you'll end up with a ton of symbols, but most languages aren't quite that bad. And 2) for teaching foreigners to reach the language, who already have the same set of alphabetic symbols (this plus goes out the window for Russian and such which use a completely different alphabet) *Personally* I think the logosyllabary is the best writing system to use across closely related languages, because human brains already process written words as word-shapes, and not their individual components, and also abstracting away sound differences would allow for thorough communication between languages that diverged millennia ago. Great example of this is how China uses Hanzi, despite the Chinese languages being as distantly related as Spanish and Italian or more. Alphabets meanwhile stop being mutually intelligible after just a few centuries of divergence.

[@terner1234]

11:29 the second temple, not the first

[@nbewarwe]

If the Bronze Age civilizations never collapsed, then this video would be about "What if all the Bronze Age civilizations collapsed?" And everyone would respond "All of them collapsing at once? That's stupid, that would *NEVER* happen"

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

The Bronze Metal would be _even more_ of a consolation prize?

[@Jobe-13]

Yes

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

The Hittites were the primary source of bronze. As soon as iron is mastered, the New Hittite Empire becomes irrelevant.

[@Khergman]

this ^

[@DirtMerchant693]

Trygve Plaustrum pretty sure the Hittites WERE the one that first mastered iron working no?

[@emilie6466]

Legit Communism they were the other guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about ...

[@TheHunterOfYharnam]

the myceneans would have split the hittites with the egyptians and assyrians and they would have replaced carthage and rome in the west with colonies

[@SC-zq6cu]

@@DirtMerchant693 Yes, but if the other nations adopted iron instead of bronze they would soon find that they don't have to rely on the Hittites for the raw material of their tools and weapons. Thus the almost-monopoly that the Hittites had over the raw materials for tools and weapons would be gone and that would significantly reduce their power and influence.

[@akaking7499]

Colchis was around back then, being harassed by those empires and we are still around as Georgia, being harassed by current assholes. Some things never change

[@sas83677]

Man I wish these videos lasted for like 2 hours. I really appreciate your work.

[@itsmealex8959]

This video is basically how civ 5 plays out since there's no collapse after the bronze age.

[@alehaim]

Here is an extra credits theory on the Bronze age collapse: The interconnected and intricate system allowing for general wealth for people that wouldn't be achieved until the renaissance(the Romans did pretty good though), began to crack from inefficient farming in all civilizations (minus Egypt because the fertile Nile) leading to decreasing crop yields meaning a growing population demanded more food while the stockpiles of food were shrinking. At the same time a possible change of climate led to a wave of regugees from northern Europe in a desperate gamble for survival/better life flooded in and the empires weakened by the worse crop yields and increasing unrest led to the refugees being basically a nail in the coffin as in they destabilized them so much that they all collapsed once all the other gears like trade began to crumble. Egypt and an Empire in the Iranian region lasted longer but they too would collapse.

[@leonardofranzinribeiro4220]

This is still one of my favourite series that they have made. However i must warn you, extra credits has had some nasty secrets in the background. I suggest you look some of It up, but James has done some shady things a while back, and some of their videos are poorly researched

[@AR-yd2nd]

@@leonardofranzinribeiro4220 such as? I'm honestly interested, some videos are't that good in terms of reserach but I don't recall anything "shady"

[@aritzneo]

@@leonardofranzinribeiro4220 this is an interesting perspective on Extra Credits since I find their newest videos a bit worse (in terms of bias) than the older ones. They might be better researched now in general, but you can see important details such as: (i) the totally out of context 'disclaimer' before the Siege of Vienna series (seems that they only bother themselves to condemn anti-islamists attacks, for some reason), (ii) the presentation of wahhabism (in the Dividing the Middle East series) as a legit political option with no link whatsoever to islamist violence (which actually fits with the previous point, unfortunately...) and (iii) the portrayal of the 'black legend' of Spanish exploration in the Pacific from a totally unfair point of view that failed to give credit to the most important explorers (they did not even name them, but named Francis Drake in a rather needless way) while centering their story on a rather obscure 'bad guy' figure of lesser importance. I even mentioned this last one in a comment there and suggested a more thorough approach on the important characters, but I think this third point is not related to the previous two, it is just a marketing move as stories on the 'black legend' of Spanish history seem to attract the interest of the audience. But I would really like to know about that 'shady' background and maybe it fits into some of these, so please elaborate.

[@chickenfeed6272]

Nah the Bronze Age Collapse is a myth which occurred through misinterpreting Egyptian hieroglyphs, and ancient chronology is currently under revision. www.centuries.co.uk/

[@apalahartisebuahnama7684]

Pretty ironic when thousand years later it's the other way around

[@KevDaly]

The Mycenaeans only used their writing system for accounting, and it wasn't particularly well-suited for other purposes. There's a good chance that if Linear B had not been forgotten people would've adopted the Phoenician script anyway simply because it was more convenient and versatile, just as we eventually adopted Arabic (really Indian) numerals.

[@JediAcolyte94]

What if the Meiji Restoration failed? What if Bleeding Kansas never happened? What if the Raid on Harper's Ferry succeeded? What if the Knights Templar never fell?

[@krispyboi2519]

The harpers ferry raid scenario spoiled be extended into a slave uprising scenario, bleeding Kansas is interesting but would only be a minor delay to the civil war

[@olekirkchristiansen1601]

N I C H E

[@TheRezro]

Meiji Restoration couldn't fail. Without it Japan would become someone random colony. And if you ask about Boshin War which lead to it. Well... Shogunate actually did fail, but when rebels put Emperor on throne they were at the time in same palace planing reforms (it was basically war over bucket type of scenario).

[@erraticonteuse]

@@krispyboi2519 Yeah, there's a reason people argue the Civil War actually started with Bleeding Kansas. It wasn't a cause of the Civil War, it wasn't even a symptom, it was itself a flare-up. A successful Harper's Ferry would have meant an all-out race war. Like the Haitian Revolution but with the blacks at a significant numerical disadvantage. There wouldn't be enough white people willing to join them (most abolitionists were pacifists, often because they were Quakers with a religious conviction against violence). The federal government would have had to crush it just as they had to crush the Confederacy. When it was over, things would get so much worse for the slaves.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@TheRezro The Meiji Restoration could absolutely fail. The Emperor was a hypocrite, denouncing modernization and westernization while embracing it to win his war. The very Samurai who supported the Emperor ended getting betrayed. The Shogun could easily have turned this around if he were more aggressive.

[@tomk1055]

The Hebrew first temple in Jerusalem was built during the 10th century BC, at least 400 years before the Neo-Babilonians and the Persians reached the Levant.

[@XavionofThera]

At least according the the Biblical text. There are some scholars (mostly secular) who want to argue that the text is inaccurate, some even argue that the First Temple never existed.

[@justasingledoor5178]

@@XavionofThera >nihilist

[@XavionofThera]

@@justasingledoor5178 ?

[@potatoespotatos]

Best possible scenario for the Humankind thingy: "What if Poland could into space?"

[@julianivanov3058]

I've always found the "sea people" very fascinating. I wonder who they really were...

[@Jobe-13]

I always thought of them as the Mongols of the sea or akin to vikings. Like a civilization of pirates, sailors, and fishermen that somehow unified into an oceanic kingdom of raiders.

[@qylark]

Maybe the British? They've always been masters of all things Navy being an island an all. Maybe they even influenced the future Scandinavian Vikings by raiding them around the same time as the Bronze Age collapse. Just my own, uneducated, theory.

[@captainweekend5276]

Best theory I've heard is that they were a groups of unpaid soldiers and mercenaries that turned to raiding and piracy.

[@sinoroman]

celtic people who got lost?

[@אוהדאריאליופה]

the Philistines were a tribe of the sea people

[@BluJean6692]

This one would get my vote if only because the BAC is so mysterious and even people who know a lot of history often never heard of it. It's the original apocalypse/dark age...

[@ZetaEntity101]

I always enjoy watching your videos my dude

[@dioniciolopez7959]

Right lol

[@tbower22]

I hope in the afterlife we can see how any alternate histories would really play out. Like being an Omnipotent God looking at alternate Earths.

[@DukeofTxtspeak]

So standard B is literally just European Japanese. It's exactly the same, except there's only 1 syllable alphabet instead of 2. Pictographs = Kanji Kanji can have any number of syllables and have the meaning of an entire word into one single character Syllables = Kana (Katakana/Hiragana) Exactly as described.

[@adapienkowska2605]

It is not! Japanese use kanji in place of nouns, verbs and adjectives. Linear B uses pictograms only when talking about number and measurements.

[@robinchesterfield42]

"If there's one thing to take away from this--civilization is way older than we think it is. Our calendars may say '2020', but the Bronze Age was a period of cities, empires and trade that were just as complicated and rich as any years that came after the start of our own 'Year 1'". Yeah, and if you push the date of "human civilization" back that far, suddenly our accomplishments look WAY more impressive! Where my Year 12,020 crew at?

[@THECOMMUNISTCHANNEL]

Is it just me or does Cody slowly become a Philosopher?

[@tompeled6193]

0:41 *1200s BC (not a possessive, so no apostrophe)

[@XandieFireman]

True

[@rowtow124]

11:33 correction, the 2nd temple. The first was (according to the bible) built during the reign of Solomon (son of David).

[@Pluveus]

Cody: Talks about Linear B Me: A writing system based on syllables, but also characters? My Weeb senses are tingling.

[@ceruleancenturion]

Along with the Hittites, the Mitanni also held a very special relationship with Egypt, even being called 'brother' as well. By the time of the Bronze Age Collapse, they were already a vassal of Assyria, so they would not have much affect here.

[@iddomargalit-friedman3897]

About judaism/israelites: The first temple was built around 1000-800 BC. You are talking about the second. Also, The Jews and Israelites started writing their history long before. However, the Israelites did in fact rise after the bronze age collapse - so your conclusion is true, even if the detailed were not.

[@Great_Olaf5]

Thank you for this. For me with history, the older the better. I often simplify that to a preference for the Neolithic, but really I just like looking at beginnings and collapses, the intermediate periods of stability just don't hold my interest as well. Of course, there are exceptions, civilizations that go through frequent expansion and contractions cycles, or are just generally more chaotic, tend to capture my attention. That's why Roman history works for me, because so often they're in a situation of simultaneously doing really well and being on the brink of total collapse. The bronze age fascinates me, partially because of how little we know, I'll admit, but also because it's a period of massive change and dynamism.

[@mithrae4525]

Have a look at the Fall of Civilizations channel if you haven't found it yet!

[@Great_Olaf5]

@@mithrae4525 I have watched nearly all of their videos. I feel asleep during the one on Vijayanagar, so I need to rewatch that one, and I didn't finish the one on Bagan, so I'll need to finish that one as well, but otherwise...

[@QuestionEverythingButWHY]

“Your battles inspired me - not the obvious material battles but those that were fought and won behind your forehead.” ― James Joyce

[@MissSeaShell]

This is by far my favorite channel on youtube. Thanks Cody

[@sauravgupta8819]

You should have also talked about the indus valley civilization

[@keshavdamani771]

Yes

[@shzarmai]

agreed fr plus the Alternate Celts, Italic* peoples and Germanic Peoples of this timeline

[@krispyboi2519]

Hear me out What if Hardrada conquered england in 1066 and then defeated my boi willie? What if Charlemagne and Irene married What if the progressives became a 3rd staple party? What if France kept Louisiana? What if the British Isles where a peninsula? What if the axis invaded the Middle East to open a 2nd front on the Russians? What if a “northwest passage” from the rio grande to San Fran bay existed? What if numerous countries colonized Australia? What if the raid on harpers ferry successfully led to a mass slave uprising? What if earth was all Ohio? I know im like whoring, but like so he can see.

[@sculpture_9498]

Charlemagne and Irene has been getting some attention

[@aresgood1]

if British isles were a peninsula , France would've been a little bit bigger.

[@russianrevolutionary1282]

Mao LongDong he probably didn’t know that a other channel did it so stop being a asshole about it.

[@cybersaiyan9596]

if the British isles were a peninsula, Britannia would never rule the waves.

[@virginiasaintj]

The prograssive party would be interesting. I can see FDR all the way to Sanders running with them. Also Charlemagne and Irene would be interesting.

[@QuestionEverythingButWHY]

“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche

[@justasingledoor5178]

What

[@twothreebravo]

Once again, fantastic. The Bronze Age Collapse has always been one of my favorite things to read about, this spin on it was great.

[@thameralhajeri3173]

Please never stop I love your videos

[@mattf2967]

Iv'e learned far more from watching your videos then I ever did through academia unfortunately lol.I wish more people would see you channel to get even a grasp on how we came to be as a civilization. When you learn how many times it has collapsed and remade itself you have to stumble in amazement at some of the stupid things we fight over today.

[@BloodRider1914]

While not the final blow, the Bronze Age Collapse was the last period of time where a non-muslim Egypt was a great power ruled by its natives. A lack of the collapse would probably lead to a continued preeminence of Egypt within its sphere of influence

[@ungefiezergreeter6034]

Huh? Egypt survived the collapse (albeit in a weaker state

[@JohnSmith-wx9wj]

@@ungefiezergreeter6034 As a great power

[@martinsriber7760]

@@JohnSmith-wx9wj It remained great power well after Bronze age collapse.

[@BloodRider1914]

@@martinsriber7760 It never was the same afterwards, though, and it eventually collapsed, got conquered by the Kushites, successfully rebelled and functioned as a middling power, until it was conquered by the Persians, never to be independent again (except for a period where they rebelled against Persia, but were later reconquered)

[@misha3872]

"Minoan language has been lost" what about Linear A? It is undeciphered but we do have it

[@GunboyzElite]

I’ve been wanting this video for so long, great as always

[@azuresentry815]

Always glad to see these pop up for me to watch!

[@nairda55555]

Meanwhile, in another timeline: "What if there was an apocalypse during the Bronze Age?"

[@DigitalDiscDreamer]

Mycenaean sounds like Europe’s version of Japanese. They both have syllabaries and both use characters for words.

[@mr.knowitall5019]

@marios gianopoulos Nope it would be a nightmare. Japanese people have to spend many years just learning character and sometimes they forget characters for some words.

[@Abby_Liu]

@@mr.knowitall5019 I don't get why they're still using kanji at all. it's a nightmare. petition for the Japanese to do like the Koreans and make a new nice and neat clean and pretty writing system

[@hatakekitama3953]

@@Abby_Liu yeah lol, thank god some korean ruler in medieval time decided to change the writing system, it's easy wth

[@midievalcat7770]

This Tyler: talks about a deep subject such as theorizing if a major event never happened Knowledge hub Tyler: wHy mAriO KaRt iS HomOsEXuAl

[@atillanandorfuri3343]

paul kruger he gazed too long into the abyss, and finally the abyss gazed back into him

[@ferd7956]

@@paulkruger3800 I think what happened is that he handed control over the channel to his brother.

[@livethefuture2492]

This is cody

[@Hi-uu4im]

@@livethefuture2492 of alternate history hub

[@dfunited1]

Favorited. This is your best one yet. Amazing

[@WinterPhoenixForestKirin]

Wow, what a beautiful and uplifting thought. Thanks for giving an uplifting message amidst so many dark ones these days.

[@faarsight]

The minoans had been conquered by the Mycenaeans long before the collapse so... Also the Hatti were a completely different people from the Hittites and spoke an unrelated language.

[@scholaroftheworldalternatehist]

I made a video about this a while back. Fascinating stuff. Interesting to hear your take on it.

[@dariusgross6204]

11:34 no that was the Second Temple. The Babylonians destroyed the first one in 586 BCE. This is extremely well recorded, as well as the basis for the whole Jewish religion

[@kurtlindner]

Loved this one.

[@ThePiousMan]

That's why Kurzgezakt made the "Human era" (or the Holocene Calendar) calendar that starts with a year 0 at the building of the first temple. The year is 12020.

[@spinakker14]

Wow! I'm just learning about this event and that it has happened at all (shout out to Epimetheus channel!) and now you're making a video of it? Thanks, it's a very fascinating topic

[@angusyang5917]

Suggestions: What if Togo became a Czechoslovak colony after World War I? What if Alexander the Great survived past 32? What if the Barbary pirates conquered Iceland and made it into a pashalik? What if the U.S. never invaded Iraq? What if the Domination was real? What if the Nantucket series was real?

[@dinoxman8584]

I don’t think Togo could ever become a Czechoslovak colony, what with it being an in-land country?

[@angusyang5917]

@@dinoxman8584 Czechoslovakia was guaranteed maritime access by the Elbe River, so it could access Togo during the interwar period, but when World War II rolls around, that's when things become interesting.

[@ragingshibe]

Assuming the Hittites and Egyptians remain the dominant powers in the Middle East by 500 BCE and are still under good terms, the Romans would likely be restricted to Europe due to them being powerful enough to keep the Romans out. Because of how compact Rome would be, there wouldn't be a split east and west, meaning when barbarians inevitably invaded Rome, the entire empire would collapse. Rome would also remain polytheistic because Christianity would never be able to expand into Europe.

[@theozita4718]

one of your best videos ever, keep it up.

[@PGGraham]

Dude! That closing monologue was awesome! Yes, I will think about it differently now!

[@gentlesirpancakebottoms6692]

The bronze age collapse would have made a very interesting setting for an apocalyptic survival strategy/city builder game with scarce resources🤔

[@bronzeenthusiast8443]

Basically like a pre-industrial or Bronze Age counterpart to the 'Fallout Series' except without mutants and radiation.

[@gentlesirpancakebottoms6692]

@@bronzeenthusiast8443 Yes!

[@bronzeenthusiast8443]

@@gentlesirpancakebottoms6692 I think one similarity that it might share with the 'Pipe Guns' in fallout is Wrought Iron weapons. Those were sometimes not as good as bronze or about the same, they had that until they figured out how to make proper and better steels. They were just easier to get and cheaper, but more prone to corrosion.

[@Destroyerr2]

Cool scenario here, i have to say it, it was pretty good. Just theorizing the possible new empire between hittites and egyptians alone would change history, as we know it, drastically. And yeah Linear B gives me the "eastern asian route" vibe... Keep up the good job!

[@lokikinch]

Literally everyone else in the challenge: Why do I hear boss music?

[@spacepiratejacen2258]

Very interesting thank you! 👍🏻👍🏻

[@rudy92464]

Amazing and thoughtful video. Loved the music too

[@kostasmetal7]

Kurzgesagt's Human Era calendar is the way to go

[@aurelia8028]

No thank you. I'll just stick with this one. at least until we get our first truly working fusion reactor. Then we can make that year, Year 0 AF (After Fusion)

[@juliannolastname2442]

@@aurelia8028 I don't think fusion would be that much of an advancement to warrant a year 0 on a calendar system. It would definitely be revolutionary, but would hardly be on par with farming, the wheel, written and spoken language, and fire. The Kurzgesagt Calendar is based off of the first large structure built, 12 000 years ago, somehow built out of stone but with stone and wooden tools. This brought together large societies with complex language, culture, economies, and hierarchal structures. It gives perspective to the advancement of humanity than the current BC/AD system by making it seem like a timeline of a civilization, not just a calendar with an arbitrary "Year 0".

[@VentiVonOsterreich]

That calendar is anti-cultural rebellious atheist hipster trash I prefer embracing the modified Julian calendar that we still use today in remembrance of Julius Caesar, the one man who's responsible for our future today

[@Reignor99]

@@VentiVonOsterreich Mad cuz bad

[@VentiVonOsterreich]

@@Reignor99 mad cause kurz tryna make people snowflakes by making them want to be different from the rest

[@NetherTaker]

Also could you do "What if the Samurai won the Satsuma Rebellion/Seinan War”？

[@rockingrollin425]

"Say you want to learn German, but instead of learning what the different words mean..." OH BOI you have no idea what you're messing with!

[@rasiabsgamingcorner2258]

So I just finally got around to reading your book atlantropa and it was fantastic man I hope you release more either in the same universe or another alternate history subject.

[@maryatracer154]

Greetings from the timeline where the Bronze Age Collapse never happened. Here's what I think would have happened if the bronze age civilizations had collapsed... Our celebrated hero David the Medjay probably would be relatively unknown today. He's best known for the defeat of a mighty invading army led by giants, but he had the whole power of the Egypto-Hittite empire behind him. If he had just been a simple shepherd or something, Goliath would have squashed him! A lot of obscure figures from history would probably be forgotten entirely. For instance, King Achilles of Phthia was not only the longest reigning monarch, but his unsuccessful attempt to sack Wilusa (he eventually gave up and went home after a quarrel with Agamemnon) scared the Hittites into allying with Egypt. Without him, Pharaoh Astyanax I and his whole Hittite Dynasty never would have happened.

[@Christopher-xs5rt]

What if the renaissance or a version of it happened in China instead? I think that would be interesting :)

[@slyninja4444]

Trust me, Ive always wondered what it would be like if east asia rather than Europe became the main power.

[@avinashreji60]

Dakota Conn Not sure if that would have ever been possible because Industrialization won’t happen in Asia first because a large population with cheap labor

[@sinoroman]

china was always a strange case. they always had a large population yet 'casually' invented stuff to make things easier. this excludes steppes conquering china. perhaps it was inevitable.

[@TheRezro]

@@sinoroman It wasn't really that strange. China was a Empire build on principle of absolute balance. They initially have huge technological advantage but misunderstanding of point of Taoism lead to stagnation (dominance of Yang confused with balance). As such China simply stop developing to point that Emperor was simply oblivious about reality and collapse of own country. Chinese soldiers didn't do anything beside smoking opium and attempts of countering western influence ended with unjustified punishment of actually competent bureaucrats trying do something. Emperor was insisting on keeping Kenton System, when Europeans take by force several shore cities to trade directly from those, as they were sick of being treated as some barbarians. Emperor didn't do anything even when expeditionary force reach palace. It is when England concluded that whole Empire is basically a joke, leading to so called gunboat politic. Fun fact is that modern Chinese hate Empire for that even more then Western people. After all they for most time just try establish fair trade and basically were forced to take action by stupidity.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

Doubt much would happen. Historically China was far too large to govern given the limits of technology, which why it was always falling apart and reforming. All a Renaissance would do would to the world would offer a greater variety of crafts and exports.

[@aleembaksh1880]

The bronze age nations lived together in peace, that all changed when the sea people attacked.

[@petrfedor1851]

That sounds incredibly utopistic and naive my friend.

[@aleembaksh1880]

@@petrfedor1851 It's a joke and a reference to Avatar the last airbender, my friend

[@alphaundpinsel2431]

Europeans: "the bronze age collapse" China: *laughs in iron* Edit: lol the comments are a battleground, also sorry for ruining your entertainment my nerdiness kept kicking in

[@Essa5225]

Europeans???

[@martinsriber7760]

Most Europeans weren't even aware there was collapse.

[@dinodude6992]

China: *breaks apart for th 15th time" Europe: lol

[@thedude5294]

@@martinsriber7760 Most Euros weren't even aware what bronze even is or of the fact that they were European.

[@martinsriber7760]

@@thedude5294 No Europeans were aware of that.

[@thecrusaderhistorian9820]

Thanks for a wonderful video. I never thought of this period much before!

[@Splifflp]

I didn’t learn anything about that in school. This sounds so interesting it deserves its own video series.

[@szbnahl]

11:29 wouldn't that be the **second** temple? The first was destroyed by Babylonians during their sack of Jerusalem.

[@animeninja2749]

6:09 so fictional hentai characters were real then

[@Darthwgamer]

Yep but the Japenese Perfected it

[@vickydavide4907]

The entire time I'm thinking of assassin's Creed Odyssey. Also the way he pronouces Herodotus. XD

[@Darthwgamer]

Pretty much same now ever sense i got it, now whenever i see Greek stuff i just imagine Assassin's creed.

[@Alovon]

@@Darthwgamer malaka

[@westernstealth873]

Whenever I hear the Hellenic ‘C’ pronounced like a Latin ‘C’ (giving it a soft ‘s’ sound instead of hard ‘k’) I cringe

[@LuisVillanuevaCubero]

Very interesting! Thank you so much for making this video.

[@captainweekend5276]

Anyone else notice the third eybrow on the carthaginian?