An Ancient Communist Utopia? The Indus Valley Civilization

Was the Indus Valley Civilization a peaceful, egalitarian society? I'm skeptical.
Thanks as always to my amazing patreons!
/ stefanmilo
Thumbnail by Ettore Mazza:
/ ettore.mazza
Thanks to Anna from The Dirt for doing the voiceovers!
Check out their archaeology podcast below!
thedirtpod.com/episodes//epis...
Disclaimer: Use my videos as a rough guide to a topic. I am not an expert, I may get things wrong. This is why I always post my sources so you can critique my work and verify things for yourselves. Of course I aim to be as accurate as possible which is why you will only find reputable sources in my videos. Secondly, information is always subject to changes as new information is uncovered by archaeologists.
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www.stefanmilo.com
Historysmilo
historysmilo
Sources:
1 - Cork, Edward. “Peaceful Harappans? Reviewing the Evidence for the Absence of Warfare in the Indus Civilisation of North-West India and Pakistan (c. 2500-1900 BC).” Antiquity, vol. 79, no. 304, 2005, pp. 411-423., doi:10.1017/s0003598x0011419x.
2 - Possehl, Gregory L. The Indus Civilization: a Contemporary Perspective. Vistaar Publications, 2009.
3 - CONINGHAM, ROBIN. ARCHAEOLOGY OF SOUTH ASIA: from the Indus to Asoka, C.6500 Bce-200 Ce. CAMBRIDGE UNIV Press, 2018.
4 - McIntosh, Jane. A Peaceful Realm the Rise and Fall of the Indus Civilization. Westview Press, 2001.
5 - Jansen, M., 1994. Mohenjo-daro, type site of the earliest urbanization process in South Asia: ten years of research at Mohenjo-daro, Pakistan, and an attempt at synopsis, in A. Parpola and P. Koskikallio (eds), South
Asian Archaeology 1993. Helsinki:Suomalainen Tiedeaketemia, 263-280.
6 - Petersen, M. C., Aggressive architecture: fortification of the Indus valley in the mature Harappan phase. PhD thesis, Leiden University, 2012, p. 77.
7 - Nigam, R., et al. “Ancient Indians (Harappan Settlement) Were Aware of Tsunami/Storm Protection Measures:A New Interpretation of Thick Walls at Dholavira, Gujarat, India.” Current Science, vol. 111, no. 12, 2016, p. 2040., doi:10.18520/cs/v111/i12/2040-2043.
8 - www.harappa.com/blog/surkotad...
9 - www.harappa.com/slide/priest-...
10 - Vidale, Massimo. “A ‘Priest King’ at Shahr-i Sokhta?” Archaeological Research in Asia, vol. 15, 2018, pp. 110-115., doi:10.1016/j.ara.2017.12.001.
11 - Prabhakar, V. N. “Decorated Carnelian Beads from the Indus Civilization Site of Dholavira (Great Rann of Kachchha, Gujarat).” Walking with the Unicorn: Social Organization and Material Culture in Ancient South Asia, 2018, pp. 475-485., doi:10.2307/j.ctv19vbgkc.35.
12 - Green, Adam S. “Killing the Priest-King: Addressing Egalitarianism in the Indus Civilization.” Journal of Archaeological Research, 2020, doi:10.1007/s10814-020-09147-9.
13 - Rissman, Paul. “Public Displays and Private Values: A Guide to Buried Wealth in Harappan Archaeology.” World Archaeology, vol. 20, no. 2, 1988, pp. 209-228., doi:10.1080/00438243.1988.9980068.
14 - Frenez, Dennys. “Private Person or Public Persona?” Walking with the Unicorn: Social Organization and Material Culture in Ancient South Asia, 2018, pp. 166-193., doi:10.2307/j.ctv19vbgkc.16.
15 - Rao, Rajesh P. N. “The Indus Script and Economics.” Walking with the Unicorn: Social Organization and Material Culture in Ancient South Asia, 2018, pp. 518-525., doi:10.2307/j.ctv19vbgkc.38.
16 - Wankowski, Jacek. “The Distribution and Role of Harappan ‘Headdress’ Figurines and Harappan Socio-Political Organisation.”
17 - Frayne, Douglas R. Sargonic and Gutian Periods: 2334-2113 BC. Univ. of Toronto Press, 1993.
18 - Schug, Gwen Robbins, et al. “A Peaceful Realm? Trauma and Social Differentiation at Harappa.” International Journal of Paleopathology, vol. 2, no. 2-3, 2012, pp. 136-147., doi:10.1016/j.ijpp.2012.09.012.
19 - Lee, Hyejin, et al. “Traumatic Injury in a Cranium Found at Rakhigarhi Cemetery of Harappan Civilization as Anthropological Evidence of Interpersonal Violence.” Journal of Archaeological Science: Reports, vol. 23, 2019, pp. 362-367., doi:10.1016/j.jasrep.2018.11.001

[@StefanMilo]

Ok fine I'll change the thumbnail. I'm still throwing some Cyrillic in there though! Just correctly this time.

[@harry.tallbelt6707]

We did it! We broke the spirit of the man who makes us free educational videos! Yeey!

[@antoniabenson5165]

Alright, I'm brand new here, like "I'm 4 minutes into my first video on this channel, and have read the channel's about section" new, but my interest is already peaked. It's not every day that I find an actual archaeology-focused KZbin channel that isn't just a bunch of pseudoscience. Also, am I correct to guess from the flag in the background that you are some flavor of leftist?

[@kanira4355]

Remains of large ICV Sites are found in N.E India ( in U.P. ), leading back to 2500 BCE. This findings is of 2018 -19. Can you share more details on this. As right now very little is available on Internet.

[@StefanMilo]

No bollocks here, just that sweet sweet archaeology. I’m pretty left yeah. Not quite Lenin level of left though lol.

[@antoniabenson5165]

Stefan Milo Amazing! It's good to see an actual archaeological channel for once, let alone a left leaning one (I'm not too picky about ideology, if the topics are good, but I'm fairly left-wing myself.) So, anyways, thanks for being here!

[@nirajpatel4148]

Imagine being the leader of your civilization but staying humble and living in the same houses as everyone else, then 5000 years later some guy with a spoon roasts you for only having 70 pots

[@NimishNadgere]

Why does he hold a spoon? I'm new to this channel lol

[@nirajpatel4148]

@@NimishNadgere it's basically just a running joke, he used to have a small mic that he would clip on to a plastic spoon. It got popular enough that now with a big mic he still has the spoon.

[@NimishNadgere]

@Niraj Patel wow That's hilarious!

[@averongodoffire8098]

And rightfully so😂🤣

[@NaytherJ]

Bronze Age Bernie would be proud to be made fun of.

[@daniellipko710]

Imagine working really hard with Bronze Age tools on a big wall to protect your village and being really proud of it, just for a bunch of nerds a few thousand years later to say it couldn’t possibly have been built to keep out enemies

[@jordanross6286]

ngl this had me dying

[@lostpony4885]

Basically when anyone makes statements based on assumptions i think about what we'll have left behind in 2k years, 10k, 1 million

[@thhseeking]

Putting squarish bastions on a wall that's purely for water control I don't think is a good idea. The resistance of that square shape would help in undermining it.

[@dr.floridaman4805]

Or to say a tribe marches around the walls for 7 days playing music and it falls....Jericho Lmao

[@dr.floridaman4805]

@@thhseeking you are so right. The civilization would have understood this and used shapes to move water away. Angles are for waves of mankind. Or status symbols. They could have been made to keep slaves inside. The Spartans used their walls for this reason.

[@sumitsen]

As an Indian my first instinct is that walls and weapons are needed in this subcontinent for protection against dangerous animals which were abundant. Weapons may have been needed for hunting also. I have no idea if the civilization fought wars but they had to tackle wild animals for sure and this included rhinos, elephants and wild cats (tigers/lions). Maybe that aspect deserves recognition in the narrative which otherwise seems presumed. But in any case thanks for this. Excellent work.

[@koobie83]

That was my thought just then too. Leopard attacks possibly

[@sumitsen]

@@koobie83 Wild animals depicted on Indus Seals include Tiger, Rhino, Buffalo, Elephant etc. Leopards would not have merited a seal where tigers roamed :) They must have also been there.

[@DevinDTV]

they didn't need bastions on their walls for animals. it was definitely for defense against humans

[@sonofuniverse6355]

@@sumitsen well the answer is sinauli excavations 🤗

[@anantbijolia8415]

@@sumitsen you think these walled cities which were massive urban centres unlike any other in the world at the time was just a city surrounded by forest? It was most definitely surrounded by hundreds of acres of farmlands and pastures which helped in keeping the city fed. On top of that there must've been a network of roads connecting these cities and all the villages between them. The deep forests where the animals that you mentioned reside, already avoiding human contact, wouldn't be anywhere near those cities. And you need a wall that is literally meters in thickness and has bastions to prevent wild animals? What wild animals are you dealing with? An army of dinosaurs? I don't wish to sound rude and I encourage discussion but how do people even suggest such a thing?

[@Iknowknow112]

I’m 68 years old now and every time I’ve seen the image of the “priest-king” since I was a kid I wondered how they came to that conclusion if there is no decipherment of the script and no markings on the statue, I’m so glad you’ve brought this issue up. It reminds me of how all anomalous artifacts discovered are , or used to be, claimed as religious for absolutely no good reason.

[@daniel-cc7bn]

because in the hindu caste system, the brahmins (priests) are the kings.

[@Iknowknow112]

@@daniel-cc7bn Yeah and… ? where’s the evidence that this depicts a Brahmin, priest or king? It’s simply a small figure of a man with nicely coiffed beard and hair.

[@linguisticsnerd433]

@@daniel-cc7bn actually no, the kings can only be Kshatriyas, Brahmins can only be priests and gurus/acharya. Since Kings need to wage wars or defend their country they need to belong to the warrior caste. There may be some exceptions but this is the general varna system

[@justadummy8076]

@@daniel-cc7bn actually that’s completely wrong, Brahmins could not become Kings they were forbidden Only Kshatriyas could be Kings Brahmins could only be advisors, priests, teachers, rishis, etc…

[@arplays4837]

​@@daniel-cc7bnfalse

[@CogitoEdu]

Maybe they built the bastions to bash the water over the head with rocks!

[@StefanMilo]

You’re a true scholar cogito!

[@bloodandempire]

😂😂😂

[@fingerimpopo3]

So wholesome seeing two of my favourite KZbinrs banter in the comments hahaa

[@allynashton6077]

One important factor was the presence of pluming, proto-ventalation, and organized well planned cities. This shows they must have had some kind of bureaucracy. The question is who these ancient bureaucrats answered to. If they answered to the people in some proto-democratic way then it makes sense that the people would invest in such creature comforts that most of us wouldn't get until only 100 or so years ago. But even if they did answer to a monarch or cabal of oligarchs, this shows that any present elite was incentivized to invest resources in public goods and improvement of the general quality of life. There also could have been a combination, where an existing elite was politically balanced in someway by the people or their institutional proxies such as guilds or religious orders. Regardless of the political organization, its fair to say they the people of the bronze age Indus river valley had one of the highest observable qualities of life for anyone living in that era.

[@rnanni1048]

Sound like a Dutch thing to do

[@flamingoqueen281]

Before the Mayan language was translated there was a school of thought that they lived in perfect peace and harmony. The inscriptions pretty much killed that idea.

[@Leon-wz1js]

Academics swoon over the ideas of a Utopia. Believing in what is unbelievable, unproveable and improbable, yet they seek it in everything. To play devil's advocate, the Maya DID live in peace and harmony, unless you weren't Maya.

[@8ahau279]

@@Leon-wz1js I don't think so. Most of the translated Mayan inscription i have read tell about wars between the kings of Mayan Cities, not with Non-Maya Cities.

[@pacifront83]

the "noble savage'

[@smugnuts848]

@@Leon-wz1js So basically the Mayan civilization was the OG Nazbol Gang

[@Leon-wz1js]

@@8ahau279 My understanding of the Maya, was there was one core city state, that attacked and assimilated neighboring civilizations, expanding their empire. Now war, or resource raids, was common between city states, but those were assimilated city states, not the core Mayans. I believe the core Mayan city state didn't conflict with itself, which is what I was talking about. Other city states might have been part of the Mayan civilization, but they were not true Mayans.

[@5zakuro]

What I'm getting from this video is that either they were egalitarian, or they had strict hierarchies/a ruling class which functioned so differently from what we're used to seeing that we can't even recognise it as such. Either way, it's cool how unusual it is.

[@understanding.everything]

Same as today 😂😂

[@daniele.5163]

I just emailed this to myself scheduled a year from now. As a sociologist and soon to be economist, you convinced me that fallen civilizations are worth researching. Thanks!

[@kalakritistudios]

It's been a year.

[@kalakritistudios]

Like 2 almost. How's things?

[@littlegravitas9898]

Pushing another, How'd it turn out?

[@jcrules101]

The people demand answers

[@fatoeki]

Why would you even wait a year with this

[@admiralsquatbar127]

Indus Elite: "I've been buried with 70 pots, I'm incredibly rich." Chinese Emperor: "Slacker."

[@MagnaMater2]

I thought since the pots look more like cups, perhaps it were the number of people who attended these funerals, and perhaps only people were buried that were foreign workers or perhaps town-mayors that died during office, the normal people were probably burned and put in the river.

[@AngryHistorian87]

Egyptian Pharaoh: "how adorable 😂🤣"

[@kyriakos232]

Let’s be fair, there wasn’t a Chinese empire until a thousand year after the collapse of Indus Valley civilization. Artifacts of the Chinese cultures from the times of Indus Valley civilization were also simple pots and jade tools, and the direct ancestor of the proper Chinese culture started after 12th century bc, nearly half a millennium after the Aryan conquest of India.

[@kanjuicy585]

@@kyriakos232 the Aryan invasion theory has been debunked throughout and you really need to stop using it. There was mostly likely only a migration or mixing. There was no conquest AT ALL. It's a bogus theory that was used by British colonizers to exacerbate the caste divide in India during the 19th century.

[@kyriakos232]

@@kanjuicy585 indeed, Dravidian civilization in Indus Valley already collapsed before Aryan arrived, and despite gradual intermingle of Dravidian and Indo-Aryan resulting a culturally Indo-Aryan dominated north India, this wasn’t the result of a single significant event that can be described as a conquest. But old habits die hard, sorry, I would try to use more accurate description next time.

[@couchpotatogaming6534]

This is the longest, most interesting "eh maybe" I've ever heard

[@andrewmichaelschaefferXIV]

Instead of Ing-soc it can be Ind-soc (1984)

[@pruthweeshasalian3688]

This is also the most well backed up "eh maybe" I have seen.

[@andrewmichaelschaefferXIV]

@Rahul the linguistic evidence is overwhelming Haplogroup and Rh too

[@gonzoengineering4894]

@Rahul continuity is not stability. The dynamic of the caste system isn't even what it was in precolonial India. The bronze age version, if it had yet developed, would likely be unrecognizable

[@abiuniverse]

There were two burial styles mentioned in Rig Ved; one is the burial in the ground, and the other is with Fire God ( cremation ). That can be why you find a mismatch between no. of graves and population size.

[@vemmanr]

Indus is prevedic

[@esmeelin5435]

@@vemmanr there's no proof for it, only speculations. We don't even know the origin time of the rig ved or it's predecessors so you can't say for sure which one is older or if the IVC were the successors of rig vedic people themselves.

[@whatthehell4682]

​​@@esmeelin5435Not really we know the people in Harappan civilisation did not follow rig veda and Rig Veda came from Iran much later after the Harrapan civilisation was disbanded Infact Look it up we have artworks and pot isotoped showing beef consumption at a very high level in IVC. They also dont have any Yagya places or structures we usually do associate with Vedic gods

[@arnavsharma1877]

​@@whatthehell4682Beef was popular in aryans of that time as well. So popular that it was ceromonially consumed during festival. Aryans did not come from iran they came from the central asian steppe. They did not intermix with bmac which suggests that they did not come from iran. Genetic tests in swat valley proves it

[@GyanTvAmit]

​@@whatthehell4682😂lol if vedas came from iran then why their own avesta book dont have mention about sarasvati river

[@helsreach001]

I am from central area of india called vidharbha when I saw the teracota toy of Indus velly civilization I realised I used play with same shape of teracota toy , even we have a festival named pola where we make bull and chariot of teracota and go each house for gift and toffies . Even our jewelry also look very similar to indius velly civilization .

[@anikethchakraborty3238]

We have the same terracotta toys in rural Bengal and almost the same festivals . We are all connected 💙

[@anirudh2704]

After the collapse of IVC, the population moved to the north east and south. We don't see them retaining the idea of infrastructure but they must have retained the idea of poetry and toy-making. They were used in trade.

[@ahmedmanzar4575]

the figures remained, even if ayrans od modern india arrived 300 years later after IVC collapsed

[@Uffda.]

That’s really cool, thank you for sharing these details!

[@anirudh2704]

After collapse of IVC. Various other civilization came to existence in India. One such was in deccan that was Daimabad copper ware civilization in current Aurangabad, MH. This site has bronze toys similar to that of mature IVC time.

[@vaibhavsingh4200]

The Indus valley civilization is most underrated civilization in the world. The structured town plan with multistory buildings and proper drainage plan and street plan comparable to 18th century cities is uncomparable to any other 4000 years ago. It was a proper urban civilization,even Egypt with its massive pyramids was nowhere close to Indus valley civilization.

[@andreamessiasgomes7118]

Egypt is not only about Pyramids, see this is why you just like your fellow people are ignorant.

[@tonmoy1549]

The great bath of Mohenjodaro is also comparable to that of Imperial Rome.

[@Desneaky.larrat]

Yep

[@notashroom]

[@mannyk2755]

Pakistan not doing justice to this ancient civilisation. Heard people from nearby villages stealing those bricks..

[@tantibusdraws6165]

I love the fact that he not only holds a microphone....but also goes through the trouble of holding the spoon. That is dedication. 🥄

[@robinfox9667]

spoon/fork = spork spoon/mike = spike (?) ... love his eccentricity!

[@tantibusdraws6165]

@@robinfox9667 I think the word for this new invention would be microspoon.

[@robinfox9667]

@@tantibusdraws6165 lol... er, how about: microsphoone?

[@keedt]

It's a marker of his hierarchical position within his civilisation. He's one of them spoonies, see.

[@jerrymiller2367]

Why, indeed, the spoon? I saw another video by him with a small clip-on microphone (the kind you clip on to your shirt) attached to the spoon. Just his quirky tradition I guess.

[@Shade_Dragon]

There could actually be only 88 burials at one site because those buried were foreigners who happened to die in the city, for whom burial was their custom. The natives may have been very thoroughly cremated.

[@basilbrush9075]

Oooh interesting possibility for a survivorship sampling bias

[@jaisalsanghvi]

Fascinating, just fascinating. When I was a kid, we took a school trip to Lothal which has the archaeological remains of a Harappa Town. I remember being told about their water management and being shown some of the structures believed do have been used to store water along with some water ways, also saw those public baths. Though we saw the sight from afar, a friend of mine managed to fine a human tooth and all of us were so fascinated like we had made a discovery haha. I believe the tooth was taken by a person working at the museum nearby.

[@anikethchakraborty3238]

They had a great drainage system which still works

[@Dinglesmckringles]

A peaceful civilization would still need walls and weapons for defence, especially when surrounded by violent neighbors

[@juanausensi499]

I was thinking exactly the same. Walls don't tell how violent are you, they tell how violent are your neighbours.

[@dheera8889]

Also from wild animals. you know it was pre historic india with lot of tigers, lions, cheetas, elephants, rhinos etc.

[@cacamilis8477]

@@dheera8889 Sure, but all you'd need for wild animals is a simple wooden palisade, not intricate gatehouses, towers and thick stone walls.

[@dheera8889]

@@cacamilis8477 first of all they didn't have stone walls but mudbrick walls. also their walls are not strong enough for invading armies. At best these wall are for economic control by authorities or saving towns from floods. IVC had a material culture with no more than a 5% of urban population of the total, there can be thieves and dacoits in every material culture, walls could be used for saving urban clusters from thieves. By no means these wall strong enough to protect from armies. I don't know who told you there was violent neighbors, was these neighbors from maharashtra or rajasthan or afghanistan or himachal or kashmir or UP or Iran or central Asia, as it was opened to be attacked from any side. Was these attackers ancient Tamils or Ancient Tibetan or someone else?

[@cacamilis8477]

@@dheera8889 How do you know mudbrick walls would not have been strong enough? After all theyve survived for millenia. How do you know which percentage of IVC were urban compared to rural, and why does that matter? I have no idea whether they had a violent neighbouring civilisation, nomadic horde or migrating people, or consecutive bandits, let alone where they came from. It might explain why so many IVC cities were burned down relatively soon after each other though.

[@sanityd1]

It is nice to see that one civilization spent its energy on housing its populace. Maybe one day Australia will try.

[@riteshyeddu9186]

I wish it would've continued into the modern times in India

[@Noam_.Menashe]

Back then, housing had far less requirements and far more space.

[@billcipherproductions1789]

In your dreams.

[@ColtraneTaylor]

Australians and Canadians aways like to bring up their domestic issues into the picture as if the world cares. Give it a rest.

[@user-ck8kp8vb4l]

@@ColtraneTaylor fun fact; you can actually talk about whatever you want

[@123shindig]

I have anxiety and insomnia and sometimes your videos help me drop off. Your voice is so calm and the content is so interesting but somehow helps me relax enough to drop off. Hope you won't take this the wrong way as I love a lot of your videos especially the ones on human evolution.

[@DebPercy]

I 've noticed that too.

[@oldrabbit8290]

the 18m thick wall is definitely built for another purpose, with defense just a bonus. 18m is much thicker than a medieval castle wall, and can withstand cannon shots before they even have siege weapons. Also, lacking a ruler whose ambition is to boss around other rulers could reduce the number of wars they fought (among each other), given how many wars in history can be boiled down to "king A wants more stuff from king B"

[@Arjunarjunskiy]

Are you sure the Indus Valley Civilization's enemies had no cannons??

[@karatekan2182]

That’s significantly smaller than the walls of Uruk, Babylon and Nineveh. A mudbrick wall can be pulled apart with basic tools (siege hooks), unlike a stone wall, so it needs to be much thicker to give defenders time to respond.

[@swagilyph]

Me: Boy howdy he uploaded! Stefan: YOU are poor.

[@jdjones4825]

And Stephen's a bit business

[@fredbergeron2193]

ahahahaha

[@benjaminrobinson7203]

It pisses me off royally that there are languages out there that are effectively lost to us today.

[@KarlSnarks]

Same! So many secrets that could tell us so much, just sitting there catching dust and being pretty. Honestly, this is also a good reason for the need to preserve indigenous languages of colonized lands, and local dialects of prevalent languages.

[@nw3877]

not totally lost fs. It's descendant languages are being used

[@runajain5773]

​@@KarlSnarksfrom middle East there are a lot of civilization born but only Indus far away from them there is no language translation

[@headlessspaceman5681]

This was really interesting! It is somewhat reminiscent of the egalitarian-or-hierarchal debate over the Chaco Canyon ruins in New Mexico, USA, (AD 1000) they were long claimed to be peaceful and egalitarian until that was finally rejected in the 1990's by some due to actual evidence of oligarchy and violence. Now there is actually mRNA evidence of monarchy there at Pueblo Bonito. Pueblo Bonito itself was long spoken of as a giant apartment building but it's probably a giant palace full of giant storage bins. What were once considered temples (kivas) in Chaco are now seen as the really nice upper-class homes, vs. the hovels where the working class lived on the other side of the canyon. See Steven Lekson and Christy Turner.

[@ladagspa2008]

For kalibangan burials, it's likely they cremated a lot. As for palace, there's a palace at Mundigak 2500bce, many large pillars are still standing.

[@paul6925]

“Don’t worry lads this axe is unsocketed!” 😂😂😂

[@paulohagan3309]

Ah, no problem laddie, you can split someone's head with them as well as the socketed ones. Party time!!! (For certain personalities, not mine I hasten to add)

[@KarimDeLakarim]

Plus i just had too many bosh's on the noggin and ain't got a pot to piss in.

[@HistoryTime]

Fascinating. I see some potential similarities between the Indus Valley Civilisation and The Cucuteni-Trypillia Culture of Ancient Ukraine. Their ‘mega-sites’ are often thought to have been egalitarian without class distinction.

[@qboxer]

I think that minimal clas distinction is more likely than none. In addition, Stefan's hypothesis about rural elites might have something to it.

[@razvanandreiantonescurogoz4236]

Cucuteni is in Romania. Actually, the common ownership of things like forests or ponds was something that carried on even among Romanians in the Middle Ages as the unwritten law of the land. The ancient Dacians that assimilated that Cucuteni culture were also a predominantly rural society and they didn't build large cities, despite their knowledge of medicine, astronomy, weapon making and a religion that made the acceptance of Christianity easier (a supreme deity, belief in immortality of the soul, belief that life is dominated by suffering and injustice)

[@kartiktiriya2612]

@@razvanandreiantonescurogoz4236 I would like to know more about it thank you for mentioning, dear friend.

[@LuisAldamiz]

Also Artenacian small scale Megalithism, associated to bowmen, replacing "priestly" mega-Megalithism in Brittany and West France.

[@razvanandreiantonescurogoz4236]

@@kartiktiriya2612 On KZbin, you can see the Dacian Falx (weapon), you can see Sarmizegetusa, the Dacian capital (with its fortress and sacred zone) - Sarmizegetusa Regia, after which the Romans built Ulpia Traiana Sarmizegetusa. There is also a documentary about Zalmoxis, produced by the journalist and writer Daniel Roxin and posted on KZbin. Also, for a broader overview of the Thracians, of which Dacians were the northern branch, you can watch the documentary "The Thracians, a Hidden History"

[@bruceparker6142]

"Coward of the county" is a Kenny Rogers song about a guy that was told by his father to never get into fights. He avoided fights so much that they called him "Yello", a euphemism for coward. He loved a girl and the guys in town knew this. Brothers from one family graped her. "Yellow" met the in the bar, locked the door, then beat the crappie out of them. Sometimes peaceful people must go to war.

[@bigbrandtheory1220]

It's rare to see such planned cities even nowadays in many towns.

[@ahmedmanzar4575]

Another fact is that the capital of pakistan, islamabad , is designed on the same symetric design that the city of mohenjo daro is based on. if you see both the ruins and the capital from sky view

[@infinitehoops]

I like how you still have the spoon

[@lakrids-pibe]

It doesn't serve any practical purpose. It's probably evidence of a mysterious, previously unknown cult.

[@donnysandley6977]

I was thinking why not a spork 😆

[@karapuzo1]

It's ceremonial.

[@shadymerchant1198]

Tradition must be preserved

[@PotatoSmasher4242]

Took me 12 and a half minutes to notice 😂

[@moumitadhar9473]

Hello , thanks for your video . I'm Curator and collection incharge of Indus Valley Civilization in National Museum New Delhi. Your explanation is really easy to understand and nicely narrated, thank you.

[@uddyalokbangabash7008]

Question : is there still a flow of artifacts, given that most of the civilization is presumably no longer accessible to Indian archeologists?

[@emani2704]

@@uddyalokbangabash7008 Yes, from Gujarat, Haryana to Punjab region.

[@dwarfbunni]

No clue how I found you but I'm binging your stuff, haven't been into prehistory in a few years and I'm loving getting back into it

[@thescholar-general5975]

I can’t stress enough how important this channel and these videos are. To put it simply, I spend all my reading time dedicated to East Asian history and I don’t have the extra hours required to dig into up to date research on things like harrapa or human evolution.

[@aitorboadabenito1362]

Maybe we should think about our own conception of expressing hierarchy. Of course, it is most common to see, especially in Antiquity, hierarchy expressed in material remains -pyramids, for example-, but this society may have developped hierarchy in other ways: such as social or economic relations that didn't create any material remains

[@StefanMilo]

Very good point

[@aitorboadabenito1362]

@@StefanMilo thank you, Stefan! Really appreciate it!

[@rlosable]

Could also simply be a spiritual afterlife, so no need to give gramps a lot of stuff with him and the pots had a different meaning, rather than being an expression of hierarchy, like number of family members?

[@daveharrison4697]

@@aitorboadabenito1362 throwing a potential example, the sumptuary laws of the middles ages restricting by class the cloth people could wear and the colours of dye they could use. Although this didn't necessarily collate to wealth- rich merchants in France were banned from wearing blue (because it had traditionally been expensive) but instead wore a hideously vibrant orange that was imported from the far east and was actually much more expensive. That sort of thing wouldn't have shown up in the archaeological record.

[@aitorboadabenito1362]

@@daveharrison4697 very good point: maybe we should think that they, indeed, had mortuary practices that produced material remains. They simply weren't preserved. Thanks, Dave!

[@Albetroz1415]

I'm pretty sure as an Indian they had a deity, a early version of SHIVA or proto - Shiva. The seals found in the Indus Valley can be seen depicting a being sitting in a certain posture which is the exact replica of how Shiva is depicted today, can't just be a coincidence. Show a glimpse of that seal to people who have no clue about history & the Indus Valley civilization in India, they'll instantly say SHIVA.

[@menorcaventura3442]

The Vedic pantheon was imported later by the so-called “Aryans”. The deities of the IVC were more likely precursors of pre-Vedic deities.

[@Albetroz1415]

@@menorcaventura3442 yes Shiva I'm DEAD sure is a IVC diety nothing to do with the indo European migrants. That famous seal which was found depicts a posture of a being so similar to the depiction of Shiva, it simply cannot be a coincidence.

[@DakshMehla]

@@menorcaventura3442 AMT is debated a lot. Don't take it as a fact. Acc to Dr. BB Lal the most famous archaeologist of independent India, there was a cultural continuity from IVC.

[@srishtisingh7031]

@Vishwas Singh so if aryans "invaded", why would they prefer having their gods dark skinned (with respect to Dravidian population if that's what you were trying to imply), wouldn't they favor their fair skin gods? People who invade dont care about the culture of the people they've won over -_- Indo-iranian makes sense, because indian civilisation has covered those regions. But indo Europeans is just... eh... there are things that just doesn't make any sense.

[@ShubhamMishrabro]

@@menorcaventura3442 damn people still believe in this😂😂 I thought max Muller theory died in this thread I can see people not knowing about it another European agenda taken by nazi and people still believing it lol🤷‍♂️🤦

[@dannya1854]

War and hierarchy has been a staple of human civilization for a very long time, but cooperation and sharing are even older. We wouldn't have the numbers to fight wars if we didn't grow, and we can't grow without sharing and cooperating.

[@mayac4136]

I'm doing a paper on the Indus Civilization and I cannot tell you how helpful this video is...especially all your sources! Thank you so much for all your work 😭🙏🏼

[@chickennuggets1880]

Lol no

[@kashutosh9132]

What did you publish?

[@nakenmil]

"Was [insert society] a utopia?" > The answer is always no.

[@du2x467]

One man's utopia is another man's dystopia. For example, our dystopia is, possibly, a liberal utopia.

[@leonlawson2196]

Indus Valley civ and early ancient Knossos come damn near close.

[@niclasjohansson5992]

@@du2x467 isn't a utopia by definition a perfect and sustainable political organisation? I would think that a utopia wouldn't have a risk of people revolting

[@brunoactis1104]

@@du2x467 I wish. An actual liberal utopia needs less presence of a governmental state.

[@dwi2921]

I disagree about liberal utopia requiring less government. Liberalism needs a government, a strongman type to enforce liberal values. Liberalism is sometimes depicted in the top right of the political compass for a reason.

[@VoicesofthePast]

This is the good stuff right here

[@ajax54]

Coming from you, that says a lot

[@Witnessmoo]

He’s a god damn commie

[@andrewmichaelschaefferXIV]

What Would Darwin Say?

[@andrewmichaelschaefferXIV]

@@Witnessmoo Aryans from Eurasia fixed that Indus Valley Civilization Chariots, hail! Sunwheels, hail!

[@Calizen]

@@Witnessmoo and that matters because...

[@TheFixIsIn-fe1jy]

Maybe 70 pots in a grave could mean he/she had 70 friends and family members who brought something to use in the afterlife, where the other person with 30, only had 30 friends/family member who brought gifts to the departed. Kind of like somebody now days slipping something in the coffin to be buried with them. Just thinking, what would I do?

[@ggggia]

Good point!

[@williamkirk1156]

Thank you. I appreciate the more citical approach versus the same repeated history. Well thought out and well presented.

[@emilyspencer305]

Don’t you have like a brand new baby at home or something? And yet we still get a 26 minute video? I’m simultaneously impressed, excited to watch this, yet concerned that you forgot about your child and they’re just chilling on a pile of books somewhere in a back room.

[@PoweredbyRobots]

What’s the spoon for then... ?

[@austinlay7392]

Best place for a baby really

[@muhammadeisa1459]

That baby is going to become the greatest anthropologist of all time

[@Isimud]

Those stamps were obviously „hi, my name is...“ stickers used for their conferences. The unicorns are the trainees while the horned elephant is a CEO. And they were not peaceful - just passive aggressive.

[@keedt]

"I'm afraid I will have to talk with your goat-antelope about this."

[@MemeNChill]

Now you have made me think of those stamps as tokens used for passive aggressive communication in that cultural. Like some ancient form disstrack or something.

[@kevincrady2831]

Ancient Karen-rappu: "I WANT TO TALK TO YOUR HORNED-ELEPHANT!" XD

[@prabhakararaonaramsetty4447]

Brother, I am much impressed with your brilliant research and analysis on several unnoticed aspects of indus valley civilization. I could learn a lot more about these people, religion, culture,polity etc;.

[@elliotmortimer6738]

Nice vid homie, love the content! You should just set up the light booth and backdrop at your place so the ‘edit cam’ looks the same as the pre recording. Thanks for sharing legend :D

[@thomascowie3908]

I appreciate the plastic spoon - never forget where you came from

[@jasperzanjani]

although I had always heard about the Indus Valley civilization, I would never have expended the energy it took you to research, compile, and summarize the salient points and controversies in such an agreeable form. Thank you for making this content

[@noneofyourbusiness747]

Cool channel. I found one of your videos yesterday and now I'm binge watching your channel and am subscribed. Thanks for the good content.

[@Kaczyfunny]

Dear Stefan Milo! I really enjoy your videos, your story telling style and accuracy. Finally a trustfull historical channel which provide real knowladge. Im glad for it. :-) These are pre-built citys! That was my first thought. That is why the houses so similars. For what reason? For either mercants, or for a military base. But either way the citizens were kind of priviliged. The planners of the city were highly experienced and knew all of the risks of a crowded city so they took care of not just high higienic standards, but social tension too, and others. And they planned it all, designed the society, before started to build. Which drives me to more questions and theorys, but this comment too long already, maybe in the next. According to the information you gave in the video it is quite a strong guess. Happened during history several times till today. Also fit with the theorys you mentioned. Also i dont think i was the first who thought about it. Are there any more informations what excludes this option, therefore not mentioned in the video? (sorry for my bad english) Thank you for the video! :-)

[@CuteCritters]

The elements of humour keep me watching. Keep up the great work!

[@sallyreno6296]

The idea that modern people resist the most is that some humans might have once lived ethically.

[@KarlSnarks]

Modern society requires to uphold the idea that we can only function in exploitative relationships to prevent resistance against its fundamentals. Not saying Indus valley was certainly egalitarian, but there are more examples of egalitarian societies in history and currently. I must admit they're usually smaller size than hierarchical empires, but can still be in the millions.

[@TheB657]

Exactly and that irks them ! That is literally their ire !

[@KarlSnarks]

@@TheB657 I mean.. I like your sarcasm, but praising Europe or 'the West' in general is completely the opposite of what I was trying to say, not sure how you got that from my comment.

[@TheB657]

@@KarlSnarks Oh sorry, must have meant it for another comment not yours. Pardon me. Seems my comment got posted here or may be I took your comment for decreasing the value of the ancient Saraswati civilization - not sure why I typed it but it was a few days ago. Deleted it 👍 Thanks for clarifying and my apologies.

[@KarlSnarks]

@@TheB657 Ah ok, that can happen, no problem :)

[@jonaspucko78]

City walls, fortifications and bastions are really not indicators of how violent the people living in the city were, but more on how violent people on the outside were. Being just defensive and cautious is not the same as inclining towards violence. The same can be said about weapons, if the weapons were made as a precaution or as defence.

[@northwall9243]

12:53 can't believe you missed a "Weekend Warrior" pun. Great Video Stefan!

[@thisisbetterthanmyprevious6674]

“These unicorn guys-these bronies” caught me so off guard 😂

[@josephhargrove4319]

Regarding the obscurity of the Indus valley civilization: ever since I learned of it a few decades ago, it's definitely one of the ancient cultures on my top 10 list for visiting once I get my time machine, multiple video cameras, and large numbers of both storage devices and charged batteries. richard -- "I saw that." - Karma

[@adalbertschwafel2587]

I would also recommend a small solar panel

[@blueboxkid526]

Be sure to bring some peaceful kitchen utensils.

[@SalmanKhan-rz3mc]

Yours is the only extensive video about Indus valley civilization that I have come across on the internet, not only KZbin. Job very well done. I am from the same region as Moen Jo daro, and thank you for making this video

[@vratislavgoldie7386]

Infact it could be that IVC had standardised weapons and tools as one giving them the flexibility to farm when peaceful and then fight when under an invasion. This is also not surprising considering that the bricks dimensions , the width of the roads and the cities all are standardised in indus valley civilisation

[@memeboi6017]

Probably through religious or cultural custom, not administrative decree

[@vratislavgoldie7386]

@@memeboi6017 that i doubt i think the standardization might be due to lack of sophistication . Like lets say u had to smelt bronze and make it some shape, u would use the same schematic rock to let it cool in.

[@scifience8297]

It´s amazing how far the cinematography in your videos has come

[@ancienthominins4270]

I love early civilizations, such cool society structures.

[@rlosable]

Well, they were trying to figure stuff out for the very first time. I can imagine someone standing in front of an assembly and shouting "I think we can all agree that Rule by Children did not work and was a bad idea to beginn with"

[@sandroschmitt5660]

Yep, simplified laws , that everybody understand !

[@MemeNChill]

Then you might also like world building and con-languages

[@kimwarburton8490]

@@rlosable i dunno Kids by n large are less corrupt with stronger moral compassess than adults imo

[@rlosable]

@@kimwarburton8490 yes, and very good decision making! You assume corruption is worse than incompetence

[@Aemirys]

This was my first video of yours and I really enjoyed it!

[@AP-do6sv]

Thank you, we need more people to look at history this way. Too many people read older interpretations and then pass that on as fact. Loved this topic. As an Indian it is funny to see that some of the indus valley things we still continue to do. For e.g our village houses still follow broadly the same structure, same design for floor tiles, same design for pottery, same symbols used to decorate patios. Yet, no one seems to make an attempt to link it to Indian traditions or texts.

[@BirdYoumans]

I like how you present the debate and the different avenues of thought before giving your opinion, but even then you leave it up for debate. In truth, a large part of what we "know" is conjecture, some better than others. I just like your approach of presenting it as what we think we know. But it is so fascinating even tho we can't be totally sure about most of it.

[@BirdYoumans]

@Something Mildly Homophobic I agree.

[@BirdYoumans]

@Something Mildly Homophobic I'm just curious, why do you think someting possibly having religious significance a cop out? There have been many relitions through out history and it did indeed have much significance along the way. Religion has been used as a tool by those in power for thousands of years. And it was and is a source of comfort for many. What they believe ore believed doesn't make it true or not true, but it has indeed been a powerful force for a very long time both for those in power and for those who felt downtroden as well.

[@juanausensi499]

@@BirdYoumans Well, i think it is some king of archaeological joke. When archaeologists find an object and they have no clue what was its function, they slap the label 'probably religious'

[@Joostmhw]

Good job you just desribed academia

[@jagmannenarbrand8373]

@@Joostmhw Yeah, but this is youtube. And it is kind of rare to see it be done like this on this platform. Always presenting what they most believe to be the case in history as fact.

[@anno5936]

with all that standardised housing and little record of anything else, i'd make a bold claim: They were the Holiday Inn of their time.

[@pinkyfinger9851]

Actually that region was probably a special economic zone kind of thing because of very high manufacturing activities and Indus was trading with everyone

[@vik24oct1991]

it was where rich traders lived to trade with people beyond indus, from the looks of the non violent nature of the civilization they were most likely into trade.

[@Emielio1]

Awesome stuff, comrade. Great analysis :)

[@edg3818]

"The butter if rocks." Really made me chuckle for some reason. I really appreciate the humor that Stefan incorporates in his videos.

[@zzzzz653]

Hey Stefan, You have made a wonderful video. It is indeed quite quixotic to think that such a large civilization came about without wars when we know quite clearly that war has been a feature of human civilization forever. One interesting thing you may have wished to add on this subject - there is a text of Akkadian emperor Rimus, son of Sargon the Akkad, where he claims that he defeated a combined force of his enemies killing more than 16,000 of them and captured Elam (SW Iran). Among the enemy forces were those of Marhasi (Jiroft, Eastern Iran) & Meluhha. Meluhha in Mesopotamian texts was the Indus or Harappan civilization. "Rimuš, the king of the world, in battle over Abalgamash, king of Parahshum, was victorious. And Zahara[8] and Elam and Gupin and Meluḫḫa within Paraḫšum assembled for battle, but he (Rimush) was victorious and struck down 16,212 men and took 4,216 captives. Further, he captured Ehmahsini, King of Elam, and all the nobles of Elam. Further he captured Sidaga'u the general of Paraḫšum and Sargapi, general of Zahara, in between the cities of Awan and Susa, by the "Middle River". Further a burial mound at the site of the town he heaped up over them. Furthermore, the foundations of Paraḫšum from the country of Elam he tore out, and so Rimuš, king of the world, rules Elam, (as) the god Enlil had shown..." en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abalgamash So quite clearly, the Harappans not only fought wars but they were capable enough to send their warriors as far west as western Iran.

[@kashutosh9132]

He addresses this but concludes that it is not sure that melhua means ivc

[@warwasnotinvited]

lol anyone who knows the cyrillic alphabet just felt like having a stroke looking at that thumbnail

[@valeriavagapova]

The pain is real

[@harry.tallbelt6707]

Yeah, it's weirdly disturbing each time I see something like that 😆 I'm especially sorry for A. Cyrillic Д is D and A is written like.. А. My mind gets so confused when I try to redd thdt 😆

[@Artur_M.]

I know right? I'm Polish and I can hardly look at this abomination, and, if I'm not mistaken, Stefan is Serbian! How could he? xD

[@varana]

@@Artur_M. He's British. His grandfather was Serbian, though.

[@BinaColours]

Guys, it is just a visual joke. Also a very used one. I can understand the truble, but having a direct link with the title, I think is fine.

[@niranjangoswami6215]

Hi Stefan! I loved your video and your humorous presentation. I am from Bengal in Eastern India. It's possible that the Harappan people cremated their dead or fed the bodies to the birds like the Iranians and only in rare cases they were buried. The rulers could be sannyasis or priests who lived a simple life believing in renunciation as in Plato's Utopia.

[@bestwitch2931]

That would make sense as I saw somewhere else that they lacked religious iconography but had depictions of yoga and meditation in some places

[@pianotte2011]

Thank you for doing all the hard work like reading and stuff, now I’m binging knowledge just by listening to it

[@thephilguy1]

"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence". Maybe the Harapans conceptualized society in such a different way that none of their contemporaries even knew how to describe them, and since we can't decipher their writing, we have nothing to go off. Or, re: option 4 at 24:11, maybe what we think of as entire towns were just huge complexes for the ruling elite and their servants/guards. Rather than build up like pyramids, they chose to build out for some reason, and have many little buildings where anyone could poop in luxury as they pleased. Much more productive use of resources IMO. Anyway, great topic, been looking forward to this one for a while!

[@aviralmishra7756]

Praveen

[@kapilsethia9284]

Is that quote from some atheist vs theist debate?

[@learningisliving1161]

How though it proven they didn't have sword or any human killing weapon. And there was no clear sign of disparity as everyone house infrastructure is similar and raised place is used keep the food and product safe from environment

[@LowestofheDead]

Archaeologists can tell how regularly houses were used, so that'd be difficult. Also 50,000 is a lot of houses to poop in. Either way, IVC raises more questions than answers.

[@everythingisfine9988]

The intro to this was haunting.. and *EXTREMELY* accurate

[@wisevictor9751]

Harapan civilization was on the bank of great Saraswati river, so you find such big boundry walls around the city. Saraswati river was in an average 10 km wide, so you need big and very wide town exterior boundaries wills to protect your city during rainy season in Saraswati river.

[@thumper8684]

Let's face it a ruling caste of seals would have pretty simple needs.

[@blueboxkid526]

Instead of 'the rich get richer', they had a society of 'the chonky get chonkier'

[@liarspeaksthetruth]

Archeologically speaking, "baddaboop." Nods in approval.

[@stevenbeeney]

Extraordinarily good. Concise, precise, panoramic, and close up.

[@glennlee6987]

Another fine video. I took a look at the information you posted, but there is no mention of the music. Any chance, as unlikely as it may be, that you recall the music which comes in at 13:30? I would love to hear more of that. Thanks for all the work you do. Always interesting... though I still don't know what's up with that plastic spoon! lol 😆

[@kraekennedy]

I'm so glad you covered this! The Indus Valley Civilization has been a huge curiosity for myself as well. As usual, you did a wonderful job of covering it and illuminating the interesting questions about the Indus Valley Civilization. Thank you!

[@flamencoprof]

I am amazed to find these days that this civilisation is even known of in general. When I was a lad in the Fifties my school had a Radical headmaster. Mr. Fuller had us doing Yoga, and I learned from him then the marvels of Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa. It just goes to show what a formative influence an educator can have. I remain aware of breath control to this day.

[@svono_svono_music]

Yes, ancient indian/sri Lankan history seems to have been undertaught in modern western times

[@thenerscylla2388]

@@svono_svono_music all history is undertaught at least in highschools

[@svono_svono_music]

​@@thenerscylla2388 This is true. However, whatever is taught tends to be mostly taught from a western perspective in most western schools. You would naturally expect this, but it would be good if there was a broader range of global historical coverage from many different perspectives across the world. I agree all history seems to be greatly undertaught at school - although, I am not a humanities student, but a STEM student who has done a few history classes. So I cannot make any concrete judgement on the matter due to minimal experience. However, even in STEM studies things are/were undertaught at high-school equivalent level. Fortunately, we have the internet to explore our interests beyond syllabuses.

[@jagmannenarbrand8373]

@@thenerscylla2388 Idk, some schools in other western countries also teach the histories of some of their largest minority groups too. American schools usually focus on the history of Europe and America. This is alright I guess, but a lot of Americans have to find this type of stuff on their own since most aren't college educated. And it does lead to a lot of cultural ignorance when they meet or hear about cultures other than what they are used too.

[@georgethompson1460]

Did he also talk about the anunaki?

[@xxafthabxx9346]

I really wish we could decipher the indus valley script

[@bobo-man]

Wow this is probably my new favourite channel. Where have you been all this time?

[@Robert399]

This is total speculation but possibly their spirituality (if any) had no use for elaborate burials and monuments and temples. Similarly, their religion/culture/whatever may have placed great value on uniformity or asceticism but still had very clear power disparities. I'm not saying any of this is true, just that there are many alternatives to "they must have been egalitarian".

[@logicalvichar8930]

Spirituality is a tool to befool others. Civilizations exist to establish control over land, cattle and resources so that people of that particular civilization have better chance of survival over other people.

[@Robert399]

@name Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[@thedwightguy]

@@Robert399 THE "VEDIC". A BUDDY told me that I'm actually an Aries under the ancient Vedic calendar, NOT a Taurus. and I think he's right. look at India today: largely "vegan", tolerance on a whole different level compared to almost any other area of the world. It FITS.

[@Bradley_UA]

Power disparities don't contradict egalitarian. The point here is comparison, the level of equality was much higher. Of course people can't be literally equal, the word "egalitarian" has more meaning than that

[@magichands135]

They could have had huge water burials, that you won't see anything about today. Also kind of makes sense if you live along a big river that your life depends on.

[@andrebarbosa224]

violence is part of every society but careful attention should be paid to whether or not the violence was INSTITUTIONALIZED into the society and how. Very interesting video and I've just discovered this channel and it's really great. Loving this video and imagining a society where social distinction may exist but the privileged don't force everyone else to live like animals and fight each other for necessities like shelter and medicine.

[@svenmrugala3554]

Love it how often Milo states: "we just don’t know", "it’s possible" & "there is just no proof". That’s real science, not assuming for sensation - rather excavating for evidence!

[@robertschlesinger1342]

Excellent video. Very interesting, informative and worthwhile video.

[@phoule76]

"King 70 Pots and the Butter of Stone", by S. M. Troweling

[@aidancanoli]

Imagine going back in time and you just see all the Harappans vibing. They're like "Want a house, bro? They're free, just make sure you have enough pots to pay your taxes or you won't be buried when you die! :) "

[@ajarofmayonnaise3250]

I would sign up

[@tylerdurden3722]

Who builds the houses?😅

[@aidancanoli]

​@@tylerdurden3722 you and anyone who will help duh

[@Ascendion]

'Why would you make brick houses in the hot sun?' - Permanent SHADE comes to mind...

[@lilykatmoon4508]

I really enjoyed the is video. As a retired teacher in the US, I taught “world history” which in the USA means briefly condense all history outside of Europe into a few chapters here and there (ex: one chapter for all of China’s known history up until colonialism). The four major river valley civilizations are all covered in one section of one chapter. There is much more focus on the Tigris-Euphrates and Nile civilizations as their histories most directly impact the US worldview of American exceptionalism ( embarrassing 😳). So, I really never took the initiative to study more on my own even though the rise of civilization is one of the most fascinating areas of contemplation for me, especially as a pagan, since “civilization” as it developed in the Middle East eventually lead to the Christian Church…. And I think you see where I’m going here. I really respect how researched your videos are and that all sources are available for those of us who want to explore more.

[@MakeRetro]

Saying simple axes couldn't have been used as weapons sounds like saying hunting rifles won't kill a human just as well as an assault rifle.

[@enriquelescure9202]

Hunting rifles won't kill a human being as well as an assault rifle. :P

[@enriquelescure9202]

@Pony Boy With an automatic or semi-automatic rifle, you can shoot several shots without needing to reload. With a hunting rifle, at least of the type common in Sweden, you can only shoot two shots and then it takes 30-60 seconds to reload.

[@enriquelescure9202]

@Pony Boy Yes, and here in Sweden such semi-automatic hunting rifles are nearly impossible to get access to.

[@enriquelescure9202]

@Pony Boy I am not offended. ^^ We do in fact have a law on the freedom of expression. The four acts that build up our constitution are, 1) the Act of Government, 2) the Act of Succession, 3) the Act of Freedom of the Press, 4) the Law on the Freedom of Expression.

[@malkomalkavian]

Are you one of the brony elite of the Indus Valley, come to save us from hierarchy and return us to a culture of moderate primitive violence? Hail the seal-bearer :)

[@nickchaconas7128]

When people loot, they usually go for the good stuff - the bling, the shiny, the stuff that’s worth $$. With so many sites showing signs of mass burning, it seems plausible that they were invaded and looted, leaving behind the common items that we find today as artifacts. But honestly idfk, just my initial thoughts.

[@ruslankazimov622]

Maybe it was the Detroit of it's time. It grow too big to be sustainable for it's time or some other reason. People packed up their stuff and moved somewhere else. Whatever they couldn't pick up,they simple left behind or burned.

[@dheera8889]

The main source of their water dried away in 1900 BC. It is now a days a small river called ghaggar-harkara as most IVC sites are located on this dried river.

[@user-sb5cg4dz5h]

doesnt match the timeline. also a complete lack mass graves that would symbolize a slaughter, such as those seen after the yamnaya invasion of Europe

[@aliceduanra7539]

Makes sense

[@johntomasini3916]

Thank you Stefan for another enlightening video.There will always be many things we don't know about ancient civilizations. If we knew it all, we would not have the incentive to keep looking.

[@SandeepMeena79]

You didn't talk about sinauli archeological site in Uttar Pradesh which is contemporary to Harappan. Sinauli shows Fully developed warrior class people and their burial even two woman warrior burial found.

[@ishthiaqshaik1083]

Sunauli is not indus valley civilisation

[@miotyuori7331]

Do the Cuctenti-Trypillia culture next. They have the same mystique of being "peacefull and egalitarian" while having cities comparable in size to Uruk. Also previously thought of as being without hierarchy, but in the last few decades found out to have more and more complex social structures.

[@erinmcdonald7781]

Definitely. Hadn't heard of them before comments here, and didn't realize there was a similar culture in that region. 💚🌎✌️

[@LuisAldamiz]

Yessss! The last Eastern bastion against Indoeuropean savagery! Don't forget Foltesti, it's late offshoot in Moldavia.

[@kimwarburton8490]

@@erinmcdonald7781 supposedly likely to have been matriarchial too

[@user-mw2vn7pv8n]

Find me any society without any hierarchies

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@user-mw2vn7pv8n - To begin with all hunter-gatherer societies, by definition (and reality). Said that, the concept is not that there is zero hierarchy, in any complex society managerial posts need to be in the hands of someone, even if on non-permanent elective or random choice basis, but if such managerial positions don't cause any significant change in socio-economic status but the manager keeps being one member more of the community, then we also talk of non-hierarchical societies. IVC or Cucuteni may have been that kind of societies: complex but also democratic and socialist.

[@paulie4450]

Since this video is very new I'll drop this info for all you keen seekers out there: The Indus Valley Script is one of the only Scripts to not have been deciphered. What's even stranger? The Script has many similarities with another undeciphered Script: The Easter Island Script. The resemblance is so uncanny that you'd think its the same script but in a cruder, more archaic form. Mind, one is at the western fringes of the Indian subcontinent, while the other is literally in the middle of nowhere, with South America and Antarctica being the closest landmasses. Hope this info fuels your curiosity and ultimately aids in the deciphering of the scripts. Cheers.

[@ArrowBast]

Indus Valley had sailing culture - several maritime towns in what is now Gujerat. And they had sailed all over the west coast of India to Maldives and Sri Lanka by 2000 BC, making contact with austronesians from Sumatra & Java, and so on .

[@kashutosh9132]

​@@ArrowBast is this true? Plz can tell me the source for further reading

[@ahmedmanzar4575]

Another fact is that the capital of pakistan, islamabad , is designed on the same symetric design that the city of mohenjo daro is based on. if you see both the ruins and the capital from sky view,you can see the designs

[@Arjunarjunskiy]

Also the sculpture of the priest-king is a bit similar to the moai statues.

[@nikkipdx4109]

I think this could be like a "monestary" or like a university of the larger possible post-cappadocia group, if they are mostly unique I have heard one guy translating them like names so maybe they were like work badges, diplomas, or similar to what you get for completing the camino in Spain the compostella

[@jonathanchatterjee6044]

This was such a well-made and informative video

[@CreepyBanana]

The real question everyone should be asking is: "What was in those pots?"

[@rantceck4047]

Weed

[@abcdidgh879]

Most probably ghee, milk and other offerings

[@sagnikacharyya5777]

laddus, and am nt even joking. read up news.

[@abcdidgh879]

@@sagnikacharyya5777 what news

[@duckpotat9818]

@@rantceck4047 unironically possible given weed is native to north india

[@kenny7948]

great to see that you haven't left the spoon behind on your rise to power.

[@photinodecay]

He'll be buried with a spoon and people will think that he was some poor, ignorant sod 5000 years from now :(

[@riptothehomies9263]

@@photinodecay or they will think the spoon is legendary tech :)

[@bongobongo1239]

Really enjoyed the video. I can see some parallels in terms of lack of weapons and communal living with Skara Brae in Orkney.

[@uma6580]

i love the critical attitude, we‘d need much more of this way of thinking almost everywhere in science