WCU #43: The Panerai Problem

[@ulifluhme]

Love Panerai, especially the classic ones. I don't care what people think of what watch I wear (clue: no one cares what watch you wear). I like the big size. Now that it is no longer mainstream taste, even better. There are enough like me to keep Panerai going.

[@jafongaro]

I’m with you. I enjoy the fact my Panerai is no longer mainstream!

[@aka_pierre]

their torpedo timer is super cool.

[@tmbruno2539]

Just received my first Panerai PAM 305 this morning and love it, been a Rolex guy for years and have quite a few but the 305 has my full attention now!

[@bigbrotherwatchesdannyboy306]

Amen Uli 👍👍👍👍👍

[@bigbrotherwatchesdannyboy306]

@@tmbruno2539 awesomeee how do you like it after 2 months?

[@marcellostraps]

Panerai watches are not designed for pedestrian watch consumers who eagerly seek watches that will be recognized and praised by the other lemmings. Panerai are specifically and unapologetically designed for people who like large watches with a simple military look. The average Joe who likes Submariners and Speedmasters was never the target audience for these watches. The watch snob who commits acts of financial self flagellation and economic sado-masochism to purchase an AP or Patek at double the retail price in order to prove membership among the Instagram watch collecting alpha group is not now, and was never the target demographic for Panerai. So it is therefor with a sense of irony that these very same 'watch critics' and 'influencers' must pick up a Panerai and exclaim "wahhhhh, its too big for my tiny wrist. It is outdated. It is simple, it is not my style!" But nobody ever said the watch or the brand was catering to these people. You can have your 15cm wrist, your Submariner with water damage that you've convinced yourself is valuable "patina", drive your Prius or Tesla, drink your fair trade espresso and wear your cashmere turtlenecks and slate grey $100 nato straps. Just realize that not everyone is like you. Some people are larger, have larger wrists, like larger things, different designs, differnet brands and do not feel compelled by the herd mentality to follow mainstream watch trends.

[@MisterKnightly]

A round of applause for this.

[@Sledgehammerengineer]

Well said 👏👏👏. Buy and wear whatever feels right for you. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

[@RickyRicon2023]

i like so much panerai, but now will reduce of 40 some models and it is very good news for ppl that can't get a panerai only for this case size, but 40 is a good size even for a women

[@alexannear628]

Yes brother. Seek change. Live your truth. I have owned the Rolex and Omega... Just as I have sought to fit in, in virtually all aspects of my life in the past. It has been a great teacher for me. Osho said, "To seek comfort, is to seek death". Plato said, "The first and best victory, is to conquer self". When we look inside ourselves and listen, we may find that what drives us is very much different than what drives others. No two are the same. I fear, as you said, that many of the pack, have not yet taken the time to ask who they are. They may fit in, in the matrix, but do they fit in IT? I wonder: perhaps the Rolex is the stepping stone to finding all this out for them? As I said previously, it most certainly was for me. Cheers for being different my friend. May you continue to seek out your truth in all aspects of your life with unwavering and unapologetic, transparency and love.

[@djdc81]

Brilliant statement. Well done.

[@hugohernandez3651]

I think Panerai is doing just fine. I just got my first Panerai, and I am absolutely in love with it. I have watches from Rolex and Omega in my collection. The Panerai is so different from everything else...that is exactly what I was looking for. Something different, but with history and prestige. Panerai checked all the boxes.

[@jeremyrice3719]

Many, if not most, watch nerds fear change. Hence, Rolex which is the mega popular. They sell the past. Not for me. What I don’t get is Rolex rolls out grandpa’s watches to great acclaim while Panerai does the same (with watches that aren’t as ancient) and yet Panerai is vilified?

[@CoffeeMadeMeSay]

Cause they don’t care bout replicas. The reps get so good that SA”s don’t know how to tell them apart.

[@Beck-Stein]

They fuck themselves by not caring about resale of pre owned pieces. Rolex does this well of keeping their prices strong on the secondary market. Its evident in the replica market they dont care about. They even put fake panerai watch pics on their own Instagram account!!!

[@adama4791]

@@Beck-Stein rolex does this well by making their watches more unavailable than an organ transplant. How is that desirable? Snobby ADs. Oh you dare ask to see a steel sports watch…those haven’t been here in YEARS. Also 1) I genuinely think the Instagram thing was a fuck up not on purpose and 2) there are more rolex homages in existence than panerai fakes

[@Beck-Stein]

@@adama4791 thats a major problem if panerai cant distinguish their own watches from fakes. Poorly run company.

[@adama4791]

@@Beck-Stein Or the people who run instagram accounts arent watch experts with a loupe looking at a downsampled picture on instagram?

[@jameshoward9700]

Panerai's decline is such a shame. There's a fundamental mis-appreciation of the brand that they've bought on themselves. Shame on Richemont. People see war, Stalone, The Rock, big watches and noughties excess. Not very millennial. They don't see Italian flair, exploration, beautiful, classic design, unique styling cues and perfect proportion. They don't see some great movements and brilliant lume! Time to pivot, Panerai. But, take hope: if you can convince people Tudor is cool, anything is possible! The brand produces some beautiful designs that actually could be very successful with younger buyers (and the brand's future) - classic, minimal styling that plays well today. But, for the mass market, the watches are too big (by all means keep the classic 47s in the range though). Off-putting to new (younger) buyers. Simple. Panerai's uniqueness is their design language, not their size. If they put out some relevantly sized pieces (sub 42mm), but keep the finish and waterproofing, I think they could sell well. But not the shonky, overpriced Dues. Abject toot. Put out some sub 36mm women's models in brilliant colours, but keep them waterproof. A strong, stylish, elegant woman's sport watch? Zero competition. Ditch the gimicky releases: crappy carbon, ceramic and brittle Ti powder. Reduce the range. Reduce the prices! They are way overpriced. I don't think the war history is too problematic per se (many German and Swiss brands share this issue after all), but Panerai should certainly shut up about their part in it - it's hardly glorious! Mind you, IWC seem to get away with a Nazi war plane on the back of their Mark Xviii. Utterly bizarre. But, I think they can recover. They just need to get some savvy people in. But one thing the Swiss watch industry struggles with is 'cool'.

[@connieandstewart]

Love Panerai and my heart hasn’t changed since I first hear about them in my teenage years 15+ years ago. My first time piece comes in next week (47mm pam423) and I’m so excited since the dial is similar to the PAM90 or PAM321 that I desired back then. I don’t think the brand can really “lose” it’s way nor does it really need to reinvent itself. There is an appeal to the watch and you either get it or you don’t. This is the same for every other company. I think one attitude that paneristi community can change is the idea of what a Panerai watch “should” be. That elitist mentality within the community deters new buyers from buying the brand because they says things along the lines of how a Panerai should only be something like the “fiddy” Pam 127... let people enjoy what they enjoy and let sales happen.

[@willbrink]

If they'd stop trying to push upscale luxury segment and charging silly prices, they'd do far better and suffer less criticism for claims of inhouse that is not and so forth. If they stayed in the 3k-5k range making tool / dive watches, competing against say Omega and Tudor vs say Rolex, they'd do much better.

[@matthewdavis8199]

Watch sizes have continued to contract right along with Panerai's growth. Coincidence?

[@richardb22]

Yes Big watches

[@khairulanuarbadaruzaman6614]

After owning flyback 00524, Why when i entered the Rolex AD, try to get Sub with date but never strike any deal with them after wearing it to my wrist multiple times. At the same time straight went to the next Panerai boutique then easily purchased another Panerai submersible.

[@scottd7615]

Panerai on the downfall? Stallone's Luminor just sold for $244,000 at auction. Panerai isn't going anywhere soon. Luna Rossa is representing Panerai in the America's cup races as well ! They are fantastic watches (like you say). They wear fantastically well, even in the big sizes.

[@Val_Cosmos]

Keep convincing yourself. Hope is what keeps us alive 🤣

[@scottd7615]

@@Val_Cosmos Panerai just opened a boutique near me. Something must be going right for Panerai. I dont need convincing- I don't own the company.

[@scottd7615]

@Al Marcel Still. Panerai is not on the downfall.

[@scottd7615]

@Al Marcel well, you are 100% correct about that. :)

[@Beck-Stein]

Problems with Panerai: 1. They dont stop fakes. In fact, quality of fakes equal to Panerai as parts are interchangeable. 2. All models look the same. Try something different like a normal round case. Or expand out to dress watches perhaps. Anything. 3. Cheapening of entry level watches with snapback cases. Poor water resistance for a DIVE watch. 4. Too many limited editions. Maybe more than omega. Lol. 5. Panerai Due. 6. Panerai’s official IG posting fake panerai watches. Lol. 7. Continuously increasing prices like they are Rolex. Look at the entry price. Crazy for what you get. 8. You cant knock them for their large size. Thats what they are known for and essential in their identity. 9. Did i mention fakes?!?

[@lettuce1305]

there are super fakes for pretty much so many watch brands especially Rolex these days and yes unless you put a super replica of a Rolex under a 10x loupe, it's difficult to distinguish

[@Beck-Stein]

@@lettuce1305 but larry the parts are not interchangeable. Thats how good panerai fakes have gotten. People gave replaced replica and genuine parts together to make a fraken watch.

[@31hallite]

What you have said is the same with all watches. The panerai due is smaller with less water resistant and designed as a dress watch, water resistant is good 100 to 300 metres with other watches, you say all models look the the same er so do rolex and omega......

[@31hallite]

All watches have fakes out there not just Panerai

[@31hallite]

Er Rolex, Omega etc all get faked.

[@KarbisSarafyan]

Attached to its appearance? You can say the same for a Rolex. A Rolex looks like every other watch.

[@victorli4316]

And Blackbay all looks the same to me

[@twistoffat]

Love Panerai have 2 but currently I just feel lost in their range of models.

[@TrendyStone]

I visited a big watch store in Mexico City recently (Polanco) and they had every brand under one roof. There were no Patek's in the display case. There were zero Rolex watches in the display case. It looked pathetic. They only have three Tudor models in their display case (really, they can't even keep Tudor in stock?), But every other brand (Omega, Panerai, Cartier, etc.) had a great selection. I've tired of the Rolex nonsense. I'll keep my GMT Batman but I'll never buy another Rolex. Anyway...I got the chance to look and feel the new Panerai models and they seem great. I'm a long time owner (~12 years) of a PAM 111 and wear it all the time) and their new models looks fantastic. I see them regularly on business trips, especially on planes. I don't think they've lost their way. UPDATE 7/10/22 I just bought the PAM 1288 called: Submersible QuarantaQuattro eSteel Grigio Roccia and it's fantastic. Beautiful watch and nice addition to my collection. Mine is the grey gradient version. If I had more money I'd buy the green and blue dial versionsl also. There's a 44mm white dial submersible that I'm in love with also.

[@h111551]

Nobody likes PAMs except PAM owners. PAMs are very easy watches with which to live.

[@mikec3454]

The Luminor Due is so confusing to me. How can Panerai create the Radiomir 1940s, like a 574 for example, and give it a 100m WR but not a Due? It just doesn't make sense since the cases are similar in thickness. It feels like a laziness to me.

[@jimcav1013]

I have a Due and I love it. I get the fact that I can't go deep sea diving and it moves away from the Panerai mission, but it gives me a chance to own a Panerai for formal wear. What other model could have done that? It does open up a whole new customer base I think.

[@sandite26]

I'm very new to watch collecting, but as soon as I discovered Panerai, they took all of my attention. They stand completely out from the crowd and their vintage, utilitarian style is exactly what makes them so cool. KZbinrs can knock them all day if they want, but they've carved out an unbreakable niche that won't be going away. And I can totally get why they would make more affordable, completely stripped down watches. Because alot of people love the brand, but will never be able to justify a $10,000+ WRISTWATCH.

[@smiffter97]

You have hit the nail on the head for me, I love Panerai and was after the base model, I did not want an automatic movement or date complication or alligator leather strap, i just wanted a bare bones Panerai and as they say "Less is more" 😉

[@TheMystro1971]

Panerai new proprietary materials like "Carbotech" are outstanding with their own in-house P9010 movement is a very unique and high end package. I personally own one (Pam 661) and the Carbotech is tougher and more scratch resistant than any metal or ceramic watch I have owned. Its in its own category of toughness with a movement to satisfy the highest movement snob. My P.9010 movement gets +1 second a day and has a 81 hour power reserve. The dual barrel mainspring of the P.9010 gives the movement a higher amplitude and is more accurate longer into its power reserve. As a comparison, It will embarrass the new Rolex "32 series" of movements that have very weak amplitude. (I own many as well). No other watch I own from Rolex, Omega , AP, etc.. can match these features. I feel Panerai actually gives its customer more watch for their money providing you stay at their upper end of their watches. Panerai has always been the brand to drive some into a odd rage of hate. Panerai was never targeted to those out side the enthusiast owner so its probably a good thing the mass buyers play commodity trader with other brands like Rolex.

[@TrendyStone]

I've had a Pam 111 for ~12 years and still LOVE it. Along with my Rolex Batman it gets more wrist time than any other watch, There's just something....cool...about it. And now I'm looking at the new 44mm submersible releases. Very excited to get one.

[@VP011]

Panerai can't be objectively reviewed. Lot of topic on it we could agree to disagree, but bottom line I don't know any other brand that create such a passionable loyal community, not driven on current hypes re-sale, make a profit or I care what you think. Pure passion on both watch community sides, either you genuinely hate it or love it. That's something. Even bad or good, no one ever stopped talking about them. It's a watch that is intended for use & abuse, not ment to sit in safe waiting for add value. And that is true value of Panerai. Problem is, Rolex, PP, AP audience criticism is addressed to why this brand isn't something that he isn't. Putting aside fact that there is enough big community of people that are perfecty fine with 300m WR watch driven by reliable and simple to maintain movement, tool watch with unique and recognizable style, that do what is ment to do. Aside Panerai most replicated watch on this planet is Rolex, by Chinese or Taiwan Replicas or other brands that want to make recognizable associations with Sub or Daytona to push sales with cheaper alternatives for those that can't afford Rolex... and no one seams to have problem with that. But in case with Panerai... seams like almost decade everyone tries to drop value with that same fact. What... can't stand popularity? As over the decade Panerai owner, and Rolex owner and AP owner... all I can say I never cared what anyone think and never compared Panerai with any other brand. It's a world on its own.

[@richardsmegma5081]

With a bit of vision & innovation, a mixture of old & new, Panerai will come back better than ever!

[@cicoman3810]

I really hope, but wish they didn’t make a new watch that can barely get wet....that ruined it for me.

[@CaptCanuck4444]

Panerai made a huge mistake by trying to move too quickly upmarket with corporate profits in mind more that cultivating its core customer base. As someone who had been involved in the community for 15 yrs, i witnessed a tipping point some years ago when many of the original and enthusiastic Panerai fans started to feel alienated, unappreciated and betrayed by the brand that they helped popularize. As you mentioned in the video, it was the core base models that popularized the brand in the first place. Largely abandoning that focus was a deeply stupid and self destructive decision by a greedy and soulless corporate cretin.

[@michaelkessler9467]

Attractive sandwich dial and that’s where it stops. Too many special editions Too many fakes Too expensive for what it is Terrible after service Treat their customers with contempt.

[@theonlyredspecial]

In what way do they treat their customers with contempt ?

[@barrymorkan2383]

Stallone's help made their share prices explode. And the retail prices. They should have been more humble me thinks..

[@michaelkessler9467]

@Al Marcel well, not really, especially as I commented on a video called, “The Panerai Problem”

[@michaelkessler9467]

@@theonlyredspecial seriously? I’ll just write Brooklyn Bridge shall I. Also Divers watches that quite honestly aren’t divers. Plus all those stupid, stupid special editions. Jesus Christ, they treat the consumer as fools….and with “certain types” actually get away with it🤦🏻‍♂️

[@bigmacdaddy1234]

Rolex treats their customer like crap...and the love it.

[@wanderkunstler]

The CEO Angelo Bonati has left and Sylvester Stallone no longer wears them. Millennials wear i Watches (the 21st C. equivalent of an 1980s swatch, in my opinion) . Moneyed baby boomers buy Rolexes as investment (but wear Timex). True luxury starts now well over 10K, which PAM has tried to enter with their 47mm submersibles, gold pieces, etc. which don't look like true PAMs, at least to some of us PAM owners or ex-owners. What can I say? We live in dark times.

[@31hallite]

Sly does still wear them,he wore a sub in ex 4

[@yoinkhaha]

Could they make some smaller watches of the same ilk? That would open up their customer base significantly. I personally don't like the design, but I imagine there are people who would go for it if they didn't look absurdly large on wrist. Or is that just impossible from a production standpoint?

[@TrendyStone]

They make 40mm and 42mm watches, which seems reasonable.

[@charlieboylol527]

I’ve just bought the Pam 1033 and I love it ,it’s a bit different and I like that ,this is my third Panerai,everyone to there own ,thanks

[@michaeledwardlenzi]

I would like to own a Submersible some day. I find that the direction of the company does not cross my mind really. I am concerned about the fake Panerais that seem so common now and seem to even fool dealers. That is what catches my interest and causes concern. And, if I am being honest, the fact that the brand seems to be wallowing right now keeps used prices lower. That is a good thing for the hobbyist like me. --Michael

[@AndreMonz]

Is Richmond group killing this brand? What about Baume and Mercier with it's Baume collection? Is this another dumb move to kill another brand?

[@tzmcneill]

I’d like to see them do a stainless steel or titanium diver with an integrated bracelet and become the Italian competitor to the Sub or Sea Dweller.

[@b_altmann]

Problem - I'm not sure. Yes, the watches are generally big, although the 44mm and 42mm are wearable. They are very recognisable watches and there is nothing else like them. The sandwich dial design is stunning. I like the hand wound movements as they are true to the roots of this brand. Those "dressy" versions are not the right way forward, they are a bit like a ladies size Submariner with 30m water resistance. These watches need to keep the tool watch specs. Slightly older models with the Unitas based movement had a chronometer certification, I think they dropped that for the new models and I think that was wrong. The brushed finish on the newer watches is bit jarring to me - it's a modern finish which doesn't really work with a vintage case style. Other than that - I'm definitely interested.

[@amarsagoo8389]

Forget what people think. I love Panerai watches. Want to buy a Luminor Base Logo. Love the classic design.

[@Mgoblue2486]

Love my PAM1086. Have owned a number of offerings from other luxury watch brands but none give me the feeling my Luminor does.

[@kelvinlow1123]

It took me a few years to switch over to Panerai back then and finally took the plunge because of its rich history, I would have bought the vintage series back then if i had the money. Look at the patinas on the watch. I love Panerai for their simplicity, manual winding, big sized watch and the straps changing which gives the watch a whole new look everytime u change a strap. And mind you, i have a small wrist but the 47mm sits nice on my wrist so on the preference for big watches, to each its own. It is indeed quite sad to see this video to know the state of Panerai now. All seems to be okay until Richmont took over. They made watches based on the looks of the vintage pieces and some of the special editions watches back then. This caused the prices of the vintage and special editions watches to plummet and imagine people who spent USD100K for a vintage piece previously. The paneristi community used to be very respected but i am not sure of the state now. I have stopped looking at Pams now and the last one i saw was Pam382 as i have given up on the way things are being ran right now. But i still have my 217s with me as i am still incurring a loss. I will stick to Rolex again if i do have money. Not the top 10 watch maker but definitely good in price retention and at times appreciation in value. Not many watch brands appreciate in value. Thanks for your video

[@hasininan5501]

To summarise 1. Repetitive design 2. Too expensive for the tool watch aesthetics

[@jackominty3633]

Panerai are NOT in competition with Tudor or Omega. If you want one, you want one. I have just this week bought a PAM00736, 47mm with an Olive sandwich dial, which has been on my radar for a while. I do have the wrist to wear it, at 20cm/8 Inches. It's my only Panerai, and at this point I'm of the opinion that (1) I will never buy a second Panerai - one's enough, and (2) I will love it, and keep it, forever - and I'm sure it will always get tons of wrist time. Final point: Like my Reverso 976, I believe I bought this perfect example with pretty much all the depreciation baked it. I believe it will never be worth less - or much less - than I paid for it (6,500CHF).

[@MrLukeeld]

Regardless. I’m actually pretty happy with my 42mm Panerai Submersible 682.

[@lettuce1305]

great taste! the 42mm submersibles are awesome.

[@badgerostripey-one6734]

I have the Pam 00587 which is the 1940 replica Panerai produced in a limited edition in 2014. In my opinion, it is the most beautiful watch I have ever seen, let alone actually owned. Its beauty is the product of its size (47 mm) and its simplicity. I want a watch that a) tells me the time with reasonable accuracy, in this case, -04" - +07" daily. If I want to know what the atomic clock says, that is on my smartphone, which will also perform as a hundredth of a second stopwatch. Accurate to one second every two hundred years? Will that stop me from missing the train? b) gives me a flush of pleasure every time I look at its wonderful dial. And that is all I ask of any watch, all the rest is just clutter. As for this blog, I fail to see the point of it. The fact that Panerai production is only a fraction of Rolex is a huge plus for me. I have always regarded Rolex a being a bit common.

[@ICYMIKE]

As an owner of a PAM48 I am happy with the brand. I enjoy that they look like nothing else on the market and it fits my personality well. If you know, you know. If you don't, thats fine too.

[@theonlyredspecial]

I agree. I’ve seen videos on KZbin about their death for years. Still seem to be going strong. Know quite a few owners who are happy. Had my Pam 323 for a while and the ceramic parts mean it needs little to no maintenance. I guess if you don’t like Panerai it hardly matters but you could say that about many watches.

[@kanzleiedgarfiebig]

Saturday I bought a 372 in 47 mm for me and a 914 in 44 mm for my wife. Both with manual winded In house Movements. Fantastic watches, I love Panerai for a long time, so that after buying Rolex, Omega, AP and Vacheron the Panerai was missing. I love the classic ones and I only need one of them. They stick to the classic elements and there they are very strong. Rolex does the same, there is nothing new in the last 20 Years except the SD.

[@Bigaletto]

Panerai should get with Kevin Garnett as a ex-NBA brand ambassador, He has one on in his recent Crown Royal commercial.

[@MarcusYeow]

I would only pay US$5-7k for Panerai. They have to step away from producing limited edition models and focus on mass producing quality watches for large markets like China and the middle east. Rolex did the same thing, they stepped away from precious metals and focused on quality steel models, look where they are now. To think that people are paying more for steel than gold

[@31hallite]

They mostly use 316L steel which is more expensive than normal steel, more resistant to the elements.

[@tods.9947]

Excellent research and discussion. It’s funny that if you substituted “Rolex” for “Panerai” in the first 80% of you video the story works well. But then the differences break out after that. We shall see if they can reclaim some greatness after covid in the New Year. I have to believe they are hurting financially.

[@georgeyin3321]

i dont get why rolex is so popular, it's the same old ugly designs. panerai is not for everyone, but it's a man's watch and the unique look wont be mistaken for another brand that's why i like it.

[@tenmuter4033]

I love the design of Panerai watches. Their iconic sandwich dial is unmistakable and beautiful to my eyes. There's also nothing wrong with being a one hit wonder (I'm looking at you, AP Royal oak). To me, the problem of panerai is as you outlined in your very well spoken video: they are too big and too expensive. Even on the used market it is hard to find a panerai in decent condition for less than 5k USD. I can't bring myself to spend that kind of money for such an ostentatious product even just to try it then try to sell it. If I could rent a panerai, I would. But to spend 5K just to be laughed at for wearing such an oversized watch and then suffer through the headache of flipping it to a niche customer base is just not worth it to me

[@Ossory88]

Just give it some time. I think it will come back. Never owned one myself but I'm always happy when I see one in the wild.

[@thehistoryprof6750]

I looked at some pre-owned Panerai watches going for up to 6K. I ended up going with a $200 Homage from Parnis. Luminor style with slight differences. 316L stainless, sapphire crystal, sandwich dial, readable loom entire night, display back, miyota movement that hacks and hand winds, genuine leather band with signed clasp, screw-down , signed crown. Watch, clasp and movement all clearly labled as Parnis or Miyota. Keeps great time. Quite pleased. The local jeweler seemed desperate to dump the 2 Pan's, but I didn't bite.

[@treehugger3615]

It could be just me but I have been seeing more and more Panerai pics been posted in social media now than before. I think this is a watch that is very well suited for young people, all it takes is for one influencer to feature it and it will catch on.

[@sieli161]

I think it's just the algorithms because I haven't seen any, but I do see many other watches (Rolex, Omega, Breitling, Zenith)

[@danigomb]

Great channel... i learn so much. Keep rollin and stay safe.

[@stephenmakk628]

I own a Luminor 44mm, manual wind and love wearing it. I hear you re the no new styles issue. It is a tough one, move too far away and it could slight the name. You go for tiny variations, not enough. Maybe there is space for an entry level watch. Personally I like them as is, but the brand should think differently.

[@robinfaulkner9945]

Odly, this video made me want to buy another Panerai

[@robinfaulkner9945]

The Due is terrible in so many ways though

[@stevefox8605]

Love the case shape, love the Cali dials (& I'm a Ducati riding italiophile) but I just don't see the value in Panerai compared to the competition. Cheers 👍🏻

[@rbruce63]

At least the depreciation of these jewels of history doesn't reflect the niche they are positioned. A PAM112 still commands a hefty price despite it´s simplicity!

[@arildskulstad5621]

In todays market it is only marketing that is important. And then marketing and marketing. Of course the trend is towards smaller watches but this trend is new. Panerai needs divers of 40 mm and 300 meters

[@d-day4165]

Panerai’s problem is the watch is grossly overpriced. They got away with it for a few years because they were fashionable, but fashion is a fickle mistress. The baseline watch costs $5-6K but should cost $1-1.5k. Swiss watch companies need to get away from the idea that all Swiss watches should cost $12-20k because of “heritage” or some other silly marketing catch phrases. Adding new movements only attracts a small number of customers, and is a strategy aimed at collectors. It ignores the basic customer who doesn’t want to purchase a drawer full of their products. I get enough positive comments on mine to know that if the company were to focus on a quality basic product they wouldn’t have any problem at all selling them.

[@targaflorio3239]

It wasn't a diving group operating for the Nazis. It was a diving group operating for Mussolini's Facist Italy. And their successes were incredible. What those divers were able to do with those watches actually enhances the legend of the brand known as Panerai.

[@jjlad5037]

I have the 127 and the 721, and until recently, no other PAMS have captured my interest.

[@ericmal5055]

Very interesting video. I love Panerai, and I own one (44 mm Luminor). I think the challenge they face is that I do not feel like purchasing a new one as they all look alike. Now one year after purchasing my first Rolex (Datejust 41) I have already purchased an Explorer II. They are completely different watches. That is the issue for Panerai great watches but you only want one. If your desire another watch you will probably go to another brand.

[@ewhyte8059]

I would suggest Panerai purchase 10-15kg of Platinum bullion, (it is now considerably cheap historically and in comparison to gold and Palladium being a very resilient metal )750 -1000 grams of Cobalt,30-45Kg of silver bullion,3.5-5kg of germanium bullion,5-7 Kg of titanium and 2-3Kg of copper. Then hold an online competition for aspiring designers to submit a new 12 sided polygon case design (300m/10000ft WR)urban sports/action watch aimed at the 25 -35 man who likes getting out there and doing anything from parkour,water sports ,triathlon,cycling,keep fit etc yet equally likes to hangout online a couple times a week hitting up Call of duty or the latest assassins Creed. A large movement with three variants ,Small seconds and date, GMT,date and small seconds , and day-date and column wheel Valjoux based Chronograph all cosc certified in Platinum 950/cobalt alloy case with silicon hair spring, predominantly Titanium movements (Blued steel screws) 96% Argentium Silver rotor with platinum blade. carbon fibre dials (Black 2.0, graphite grey, navy blue and Argentium Silver plated) and aquamarine lume ,Matching integrated rubber or carbon fibre straps and Argentium Silver bracelet (having tertiary platinum centre links and Argentium silver screws) retailing from £7500-£15000 depending on the variant and combination of strap/bracelet.

[@emaeder18]

Panerai is doing just fine

[@MrLorenzobringheli]

As always very accurate and informative video. Thank you. I always look forward to your research, knowledge and serious yet kind point of view. Bravo

[@alirezaazimipour3637]

Panerai has a great heritage and history around it. A lot more than Rolex I may add. People who purchase Panerai watches don’t head to Starbucks and stay away from social media, without following the next trend or bandwagoning on Rolex, AP or PATEKs.

[@wmla4481]

I'm in LOVE with the Luminor Due Piccolo in Blue or Marine. For about the same price I could get a Grand Seiko which is a much better watch in terms of quality and workmanship but, I have to admit I like the way the Panerai looks and the Piccolo makes it more affordable. And I could get both and have a wonderful collection of watches that are both good, one better than the other, but both that I really like. I really do like the Grand Seiko Snowflake dials for reference.

[@kazino21]

I love my Pam since I've had it from 2003, but since around 2010 people have taken the Mickey out of it. I have about 15 other watches and don't particularly care what people think about what I wear or why I'm wearing it. But if I did then I wouldn't wear it at all

[@zalsentzer]

Love Panerai, but I agree it feels like they need to take a deep breath and refocus their energy on what they're best at. Great video, thanks for sharing!

[@milesblack8485]

I'm a great lover of 'cushion' watches. So many times I have toyed with the idea of purchasing a Panerai, but at the last minute always seem to back out! The fact that they are over priced, have questionable movements (from a quality of finish point of view) hold poor re-sale values is what always scares and prevents me from from purchasing what I think are aesthetically beautiful watches. If only they could place themselves correctly within the watch market?

[@frederickthompson8686]

This is kind of a "fashionista's" overview of Panerai. Certainly, the narrator is entitled to his views, but brands are fragile entities, and consumer perceptions of them change over time -- sometimes for no apparent reason. In the case of Panerai, the brand's essential DNA remains consistent, despite its desire to experiment with new variations that have not always attracted consumer interest. Even the vaunted Rolex brand has experienced its share of missteps! My view is that Panerai's heritage will enable the brand to endure, despite the occasional stylistic detour. I'm keeping mine!

[@rbruce63]

On the screen the watch looks nice, even better after reading The Italian by Arturo Perez-Reverte. But will it look as good in my wrist and how well will the wallet take such a torpedo hit!

[@mannixj5186]

Appeals to a niche market, I would prefer to see the brand continue in the plethora of other makes we see on the market today. In the 90's there were a go-to choice, fashions evolve, change and dare I say sometimes return, but dive watches with 30m depth ratings...It's quite a concession!

[@SiVispacemparabellum045]

Yes I agree that 30m thing, was an issue. But let’s be honest here, 99 out of a 100 people who own a ‘dive’ watch will never go deeper than 2m in the hotel pool. So not really an issue. And 100m is perfectly fine, most recreational scuba decent don’t go deeper than 25m. So your 1000m dive watch in the office is no better than the 30m Luminor due

[@JohnJohnson-dv1ds]

My 164 looks modern and timeless after ten years. No issues here.

[@bboooobbyy]

I would hope a watch that was only 10 years old wouldn't look outdated already lol.

[@QuanPham-uq7ml]

Wear what you like and don't worry about what other people think. If you are the type that is worried about anothers opinion about what you wear.....the problem isn't the brand. The problem is you.

[@Abarthgo]

I have a PAM 312 with the P9000 movement. Its a lovely thing especially with the Swiss Ammo strap I had made for it. Its different and cant be mistaken for anything else. You see what you think may be Rolex and then realise its an Invicta. At least if a person is wearing a Panerai they are likely into watches. People often buy a Rolex just for the status. Also Rolex really are just churning out the same stuff too in my opinion. Also Hugo Boss dressed the Nazi's and it hasn't seemed to hurt them.

[@mrlume9475]

As a new boy to Panerai, this podcast is perfect, bringing me up to speed on the history and development of the brand. Thank you so much for posting.😀👍

[@clark3830]

I am board with Rolex, Patek or Omega. I have all of them in my collection. I have two Panerai models and one is the Lo Soienziato with gold skeleton movement. These are much more enjoyable.

[@giadar2963]

Panerai is what it is.. It can be small strong part of watch world or try to get bigger and burn in prosess maybe very badly.. It divides people too much.. Some just hate the look some love it.. Not like generic neutral rolex. Those how like do not collect many of them.. 1 many 2 some 3 is starting to be rare not so many anymore compared to other brands.. But many like to experience that 1 panerai and like to have that 1 panerai in there collection that is all ready big thing.. That is more than many other brand have.. Can try to grow from that but is it worth it in the long run... Things will change in live that is constant and sure thing..

[@TruckeeDoggo]

Their problems have nothing to do with their failed attempts to concoct brand history or pedigree. Famous brands like F.P. Journe, Frank Muller, Richard Mille, etc., didn't even exist until the late 1990s and early 2000s, and yet they have no problem selling into a high end luxury market. The big problem with Panerai is that they've targeted the narrow and shrinking market of alpha male Sly Stallone-types with gorilla-sized wrists who want thick and bulky 44mm+ size watches. That market has not only contracted, but people in that market have moved away from Panerai and towards other models like the AP Royal Oak Offshore, Rolex Submariner/Sea Dweller, and the Hublot Big Bang. Today, if you want a reasonably-sized 42mm luxury dive watch with an automatic movement, reasonably thin case, a clean and elegant dial, and at least 200M of water resistance, Panerai doesn't want your business.

[@lettuce1305]

they do have 42mm submersibles since 2017, they're not that thick etiher (13-14mm)

[@steffydog]

Always a great listen, fascinating, thanks

[@perosa99]

Panerai need more diversity in their models to have a broader appeal. The oversized same recognizable model can just go so far. I agree, they could work on their entry level to offer better value

[@d.j8767]

Having owned several Panerai over the years, I miss the old days when they were a "microbrand". I have since sold them and moved on to Ennebi. Ennebi is what Panerai was. I wouldn't buy a Panerai with an in-house movement; if I purchase one again, it will be an early 2000's model with a modified ETA movement. Just my two cents.

[@MischatenHoope]

Yes, we know that Panerais are not for the Frappucino drinking instagram crowd. They are watches with a clear heritage and they are instantly recognizable. They are well-engineered and reliable and, true to their heritage, big on purpose - asking for a small Panerai is like asking for a slow Porsche. Whether the brand is in decline may be up for discussion but prices for used Panerais are climbing nicely. This watch is a statement; if it's too big for tiny wrists, get something else that is approved by the Starbucks crowd.

[@davidofglenbrook4487]

Panerai never impressed me so I really don’t care what happens to them.

[@robbo1233]

Too expensive??? Why you watching then

[@CayenneTurboDriver]

@@robbo1233 You should learn to accept other peoples opinions, without playing the „You just cant afford one!“-card 😉

[@marcocastagnetti7086]

Paneri, on leather or rubber braclets, (half a watch) plane dial and cases with eta movements on the whole, where is the value here, no wonder they were so easy to fake.

[@theonlyredspecial]

Panerai have a lot of really good in house 8 day and 10 day movements. Some of them even use ceramic in Specific parts to reduce maintenance to almost nothing. Some even use mini rotors in very sophisticated movement designs.

[@petespurgeon7217]

Great original look but need desize & get entry level series up to the bar with an appealing catalouge & price range, to many of the brands are pricing buyers/ enthusiasts out. Good video . Thanx P.S. Tx.

[@davidinghram2494]

PAM0111 here, and I just plain like it. Wear it every day.

[@thezzz8]

You can 90% copy paste this video with Rolex lineup of watches....

[@jasonscott5043]

It’s all in your head Chronicler. The things you complain about aren’t really problems at all. I am glad all the rage of a decade ago is over. Now I can wear one and I won’t be on a bandwagon. I think they sell them well enough.

[@pauloconnor5101]

Panerai problem is they don’t make movements yet charge prices as if they do.

[@derekzhou2397]

1312 my first Panerai the best piece in my collection

[@31hallite]

I love panerai they are unique in looks, where most of the others look the same, I have four.

[@vicentvanmole]

Perhaps a price cut in half will allow more owner or else overpriced undervalued.

[@johnanth]

The bit on fascist heritage did make me think. It's probably too hot for KZbin so I doubt any big watch channel like yours can touch the subject (which I totally get), but I am weirded out by the fetishism for WW2 pilots watches. Specifically how the German styled fliegers, built to Luftwaffe spec, have such a following. The Allies were less strict on spec so there's much more variety and therefore they're less iconic, but it's still strange to big up that history.

[@ezragonzalez8936]

Stallone is no longer popular lol! the biggest issue with Panerai and just about any other "luxury watch brand" is the chinese super fakes can be had for $600 and are 95% identical to the genuine one that sells for $10K for stainless steel case! The Chinese will do the the Swiss as the Seiko did to them with the quartz watch .. they became complacent and greedy charging ridiculous prices for a pedestrian product 90% using the same ETA Base movements that Seagull has copied for 1/10th the price the only watches that are selling in the secondary market and worth every penny are the Rolex Cellini line solid 18K case watches can be had for $3k any day! cheers from Salt Lake City Utah,

[@AbdElHmyd]

Enthusiast-based market is very fragile.

[@deltropico7]

Panerai needs to be like a grandpa that shows you he’s still the man, and straight up just design a hand wound watch for Italian navy that exceeds quartz/fitness/smart watches. Something so cool Hodinkee takes to Mars.

[@zaf240489]

I wonder if it’s hard to make a watch with good water resistance. Panerai keeps making ‘toolish’ looking watches with poor water resistance. Times have changed I guess.

[@31hallite]

Most of the watches are 100 and 300 metres water resistant, some like the due are less and desiged as a dress watch, some people get confused with 30 bar which is 300 metres.

[@JuanGarcia-gu4oe]

They need to keep it simple the 111 is proof they have the ability to be special they just started punching way above the class of ppl who collect them . And the limited editions got ridiculous.

[@cqc2238]

give me a hand wind, small seconds, sandwich dial with transparent case back and a power reserve on the back that does cost 10k and have a 47mm case. Ill buy one for about 7k.

[@joeesparza6108]

They need to do away with limited edition gimmicks and far out materials for case construction! Should just have two categories , the historic line , consisting of three groups , Radiomir , Luminor and Submersible and a Modern line , consisting of three or more groups . These models only taking small ques from their historic pieces ,other then that are totally different w/ more of a modern size and realistic price point.

[@Beck-Stein]

Panerai posted pictures of fake Panerai watches on their own official Instagram account. Lol. WTF. Enough said!