Shooting Mediterranean but with Arrow on the “wrong” side?

Can you shoot a longbow mediterranen, but with the arrow on the “wrong” side?
I played a bit around, what I found you can watch here :)
How does the arrow spine influence the result?
How’s about the archers paradox?
The video of Shadiversity:
• Doing the IMPOSSIBLE i...
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Armin Hirmer
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Malta

[@S.Grenier]

I saw Shad's video and thought it was interesting, but it did lack a good, practical demonstration and comparison, and no one does that as well as Armin does. Sure, seeing Lars Andersen shooting that way was nice, but we know Andersen could probably split 3 atoms in 2.7 seconds at 30 feet using whatever technique he wants. Not necessarily the most representative demonstration for us mortals. Very happy that you took the time to share your experiments with us, it was particularly nice to see how well it played as a release technique with string twist and kathra. As soon as the snow thaws and weather calms down around here I will be experimenting with this.

[@shadiversity]

Oh man, applying the katra technique (is that how you spell it?) with three fingers on the right looks *so interesting* and effective. I can’t wait to give this is a try. Your thoughts that archers on the battlefield would have to shoot incorrectly spined arrows is something I thought about as well, so seeing a technique that makes this possible is really exciting for me. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on this Armin, it was so darn interesting!

[@ArminHirmer]

It is, you will like it :)

[@ArminHirmer]

Khatra

[@thegentilehunter]

Bows found of the Mary rose where made up on all different lengths and draw weights. Presumably at the time the armies didn't have time to sort out thousands of arrow in to different spine ratings. Presumably their where wagons overflowing with arrows. The theory is this is why rifles replaced bows so quickly, so the reason their ammo is so much easier to carry and distribute.

[@yordanazzolin274]

@@thegentilehunter Im curious to where you heard that rifles replaced bows because of ammo, considering how hard and complicated it is to reload an aquebus and how unreliable it is, plus black power would not work in the rain, you need power and bullets and crossbows pretty much replaced it already before aquebus were even a thing... As to why anyone would use a "rifle" instead of a bow, I'd put my money on the firepower not the ammo.

[@weirdofromhalo]

@@yordanazzolin274 Has nothing to do with firepower. It's just easier to train a peasant who doesn't hunt or a city commoner with firearms than trying to train them to use a bow. It's way faster, and I would assume you would have to make less equipment, as an arquebus could be a dummy made out of wood for training with before eventually giving levies the actual weapons.

[@CowCommando]

"Maybe they knew it already because it's working," has got to be one of the best arguments I've heard. When it comes to combat, I would hope that people used what worked because that's what's most likely to keep you alive.

[@MeadLongbows]

Awesome! So funny I just posted a video about this very same thing except I used a 90 lb warbow I made yesterday! Was fun to do and test, found a lot of the same stuff you found Armin. I also found that it did in fact help with being able to draw a MUCH higher draw weight than one is use to. Great video Armin!

[@Thrand11]

This is Thrand! Excellent video well done and I have been experimenting with this on my channel as well with 130# warbow.

[@lotharluder2743]

@@Thrand11 130 lips Warebow. Only Monster can shoot this one. Like to know how much this can penetrate modern amore

[@adriaanvandenberg5013]

25 minutes of pure archery with Armin, nothing is ever right or wrong. Glad you're learning us new things every time!

[@odinforce29]

Armin does the "jeet kune do" of archery - Take what is useful, reject what is useless

[@bigernbladesmith]

When I got my 1st bow (a yellow Bear Archery thing) when I was 9 or so, I immediately started shooting 3 finger with the arrow on the right side. Since no one I was ever around knew anything about archery, I did it for quite awhile. A new neighbor saw me and "corrected" me. It always felt weird to me to shoot like that, even to this day. Then I learned about thumb draw, and THAT felt the most comfortable for me. No evidence one way or another, just my experience.

[@byroneckhardt4131]

I find holding the string with the thumb easier and the release cleaner, I ended up having a right hand American long bow custom built cut to centre on the right, shoot however your most comfortable. You make your own rules. Happy shooting.

[@karlsjostedt8415]

Me and my kids just started archery. I let them use whatever draw they want. They use three fingers on the outside and it is no problem. I taught them simple khatra and they can shoot straight right away...

[@dustinthewind3925]

If there's one thing I learned about traditional archery (and many other things), it's that if someone says it a technique doesn't work, theres always someone else who can prove that it does. Keep shooting Armin!

[@perrydebell1352]

Having watched almost all your videos about draw techniques etc., this one is the apogee, the culmination of all you have learned & experienced in the art of the bow. You have brought together every example of accurately releasing arrows on either side of the bow, using all the significant releases, in the most informative & entertaining video you have produced so far. Thank you. Your dexterity astonishes me, but more importantly, you have today, demonstrated the wisdom of archers who knew their craft, where ever or whenever they lived. You are the reincarnation of far shooting Apollo.

[@danielferszt6521]

Excellent video... Arrow on the right is not only a bit faster, but it gives so much flexibility to apply different styles

[@upcyclemichael]

Thank you. That was THE most informative Ideo I have ever watched about archery. I've been shooting since I was a child and decided to learn how to do it 'properly' last year and have really struggled to change the style i learned to the arrow on the left style. Tomorrow I'm going out and shooting with the arrow on the right, the way I learned, the way I am most comfortable. Your videos are always a pleasure to watch but this one has really made me happy. Thank you.

[@mrchrispy13]

I've now seen a ton of videos of people shooting this way accurately, and all of them seem to think there's a ton of advantages to shooting from the "wrong side;" and yet in every one of these videos you'll see people commenting paragraphs about how it's still not the best way to do it. good video!

[@fire_lord862]

Armin, do a video about the 10 ways Indians draw the bow!

[@saadized]

I second that!

[@tejapribac]

@Aint Jack I forth it! ;)

[@dalepower632]

I have to admit, that sounds rather interesting.

[@mithrandir6283]

@@tejapribac and I third it!🤣😂

[@miguelveratraditionalarche9374]

THANKS!🙏 Without the Malta Archery video's I could never have fun correctly. And I still have a lot to learn. As always Thank you for this amazing channel and your friendship.🙏

[@bellowphone]

I was going to write you a long detailed letter asking you about these things, and now I find that you have answered every question already, in this excellent video. I have been shooting almost every day for about six months now, and my accuracy is getting fairly good, shooting three-finger, right-handed, with the arrow on the right side. The "wrong" side, as it were. That's the way I'm most comfortable, because it's the way I learned when I was a young boy and there was no one to teach me. My arrow flight is best with a very stiff arrow: #55 spine, with my bow's draw weight of #40. I occasionally try to learn to shoot the conventional way with the arrow on the left, but my usual point of aim puts the arrows a foot and a half to the left at 20 yards. Right now in my learning process, it's just too distressing to try to unlearn everything I've been practicing, so I'm sticking with my way for now. (Ha ha; "sticking".)

[@valterXIII]

Always open to learning new things Armin. Thank You.

[@colleenparsons51]

I love this video of yours it was perfect for when you spoke about the spine arrowes and also showing which side of shooting ones arrowes. THANK YOU

[@ictw7521]

Very interesting video! When i started shooting bows in my childhood nobody explained to me how to do it. Shooting my bows with two or three fingers and the arrow on the right side of the bow has from the beginning looked for me the natural way. Only recently, after i stumbled over Armins youtube channel, i ´ve started to try thump release as well.

[@Incandescentiron]

Thank you for being willing to experiment. I understand the multiple variations so much more completely. Great!

[@FolkClouds]

Thank you Armin, these past months watching your videos and the last week of actually shooting truly has changed my life, i will think of you always when shooting a bow, whenever i get sloppy i hear your voice saying remember khatra. ❤

[@ArminHirmer]

Hahaha nice. Thank you

[@thegentilehunter]

Love it. Their where so many veteran archery saying shooting from the right side is impossible after they viewed shad fumble his first couple shots. Then their even more people proclaiming the dangers of shooting off meta. I could only imagine people would be critical of Howard hill or Fred bear if they didn't see the results or know the person.

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

Fred bear used snap shooting and recomend not to copy him. Hill used a swing draw motion and also dead release while short drawing as well. If you where to use good teknuiqe like modern archers like and somthing No one mentioned in their video is griping the bow and bow arm. As armin Said he got hit and om war you cant risk that having the string snap, No one has adressed how fidly self nocks are and how easy they fall off, and if the arrow bounces around you have No controll and thats dangerous. If you are forcing things to work or deviate far from teknuiqes that give consistantcy your Just random flinging arrows. Also No one used a realy thick heavy arrow with rugh feathers, without gloves you dont want your thumb close and spine matter and his exspert Said it was No diffrence...? Og course People wil correct missinformation

[@sigmanarchery54]

Great information. I to do believe that any way the individual chooses to shoot with practice they will become pretty accurate, thank you again for taking the time to share with us.

[@Thrand11]

This is Thrand! Excellent video well done and I have been experimenting with this on my channel as well with 130# warbow.

[@robertroth6521]

Great information. I’m. Going to try all those techniques this week end.

[@MarcassCarcass]

i just spent the weekend going thru all this, you're right on point.

[@gizmonomono]

Gotta say, I thought it was an inefficient way to shoot, untill I saw Lars demonstrate it. I'm glad you also shared your thoughts on the matter. Always glad to hear it. But as far as shooting goes, it's still by far the least appealing style for me. Thumb and slavic are way more graceful. This is way too much fumbling around. When I started Mediterranean it felt good. Thumb release felt good, slavic felt good. This feels clumsy and unnecessary in my opinion. But still, nice to see that it works. Always glad to learn something new.

[@TTMaster-sp5sj]

Once again you have explained it amazingly

[@roman_sudneko]

Thank you for your work! I learned something today.

[@samf137]

This is so cool, I haven’t shot bows since I had a bad experience wounding an elk with a recurve😢. But you guys experimenting with this is just so cool. And always wanted to delve into the world of heavy longbows, suddenly I’m motivated again!

[@josephd7616]

You are simply the best 👍 Love your videos !

[@BIZEB]

Quite interesting how you end up getting many of the techniques of Kyudo once you switch to the right side. Moving the bow out of the way, twisting the right hand, etc.

[@ArminHirmer]

because these techniques work :)

[@DragoChronicSmoker42]

I think shooting on the right side of the bow was mostly used for speed and during battles. I like shooting from the left because it gives me a more accurate shot and I can lean the bow a little bit when shooting, I don't like to shoot from the right because I have to rely on my thumb to hold the end of the arrow and make sure that the arrow does not fall off the bow, and the arrow curves inward to the left when shooting from the right side. Obviously for lighter/faster bows, like horse bows, which were designed to be shot from the right side, the eastern style is a little more practical because that is what the bow is designed for. You and NUSensei are two of the most humble and cool-headed archer dudes on youtube. You make valid points from both sides without trying to pick one side over the other. As the good man once said, it's not the bow or the style of shooting, it's the person who is shooting that has to hit the target.

[@erikjarandson5458]

I saw Shad's videos on this. He makes a lot of sense. One thing he didn't think to argue is what Armin points out here, namely the fact that the arrow tip never gets close to the hand with the "cradle release" or other "wrong" side releases. That may be very significant, as medieval war archers often used deliberately dirtied arrows, to cause infection from shots that would otherwise not be deadly. With a dirty arrow, even a fairly shallow cut on the hand could be dangerous, not to mention if one accidentally poked the point a centimeter in, leaving narrowing wound that couldn't be properly cleaned. You wouldn't need to see, or even hear about, many cases of archers dying of gangrene from this, before deciding that "cradle release" is the way to go with dirty arrows. There was a lot more here that's new as well, of course. A practical analysis from an experienced and skilled archer clarifies a lot.

[@ArminHirmer]

thanks

[@lotharluder2743]

Oh, Armin on a long bow. Nice. I did not expect that one.

[@centos8034]

I'm glad modern Archery is finally getting the point

[@michaelpeters6659]

I’m here after the Shad video good stuff!

[@paramidge8935]

Hi Armin, please bear with me as I am only 6 weeks into archery in earnest. I am shooting Mediterranean to start and when using my Scythian bow yesterday (bought on your recommendation - no regrets - really nice and easy) I played with my very limited idea of khatra that I had gleaned from one of your videos. I was shooting arrow on left and tend to cant slightly to the right. I found it easy to tip the bow forward and right with my lower two fingers - without whacking my bow arm with the string which seems to follow parallel to the arm with the little bow (nod) of the bow. Now I cannot say whether I am avoiding bow contact as desired or whether this is having some placebo effect on myself as a noob - but absolutely, repeatedly, my groups have become tighter and more accurate - with weaker arrows too but really good with some 600 spined - to a 33ld bow. The last time I shot I put seven arrows tight together into the same inch or so space (at about 18 yards as the safe limit in my garden for several fully risk assessed reasons} - very satisfying. Whatever is causing this - thanks so much for your calm and intelligent explanations - I am loving the art.

[@ArminHirmer]

Hehe it can work!

[@mcmatrix58]

The thinking man's analysis! Excellent breakdown - Khatra et voila! Horace Ford has a lot to answer for!

[@templetonlee1722]

Pure Art. A Master in its field.

[@steelwingstudios-brettalle3473]

glad i found your channel a few months ago. you've been a huge help to me. i have loved trying out all the different methods i can find. several of my favorites were shown by you. can you share a link (or name) of that guard you are wearing on your hand? that's exactly what i'm looking for.

[@saadized]

Another awesome video and very much appreciated! I learned archery from your videos and the way you explain and demonstrate the principals and techniques is second to none and this video, at least for me, shows all those thechniques and their application and benefits. And I thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us. All this buttering up leading to a request: Can you do a video on the 10 different Indian draw techniques? Or point me to some refrences so I can look it up. Thanks in advance!

[@ArminHirmer]

Thanks, I see what I can do

[@liammerrick6399]

i have a Kheshig on the way. i only know Mediterranean arrow on the left so this is a great video for me. ive heard you mention Khatra before so i'm glad i finally know what it is because i think im going to need it with my Kheshig. my forearm gets chewed right up by the string on my current aliexpress special so its time to start practicing this new technique. i'm about 2months and 2000 arrows into my archery career and i'm finally getting more consistant tight groupings so im looking forward to undoing all that hard work and starting a fresh lol. your content is unrivaled Armin. thanks for taking the time to make all these vids for us. Alibow must love you. Ever read the conqueror series about the khan dynasties by Conn Iggulden? its what got me into archery. and now i have a mighty Kheshig HAHAHA!!!!!

[@RandomCarrot2806]

This whole 'Right vs Wrong side' incident is an excellent demonstration of how narrow minded people can be. It's not enough for people to simply say: "I was taught to shoot like X and I believe it's superior" instead they go way into the extreme making silly statements like it's impossible or there be can't areas where it might be advantageous to shoot the wrong way. It tells me they've never experimented on their own and are just following rigid dogma. There is no room for nuance or flexibility in their small little minds.

[@jareth7456]

Word ....you still see alot of gate keeping especially in the long bow circles and only because they follow rigid dogma

[@steveg8322]

Never even OCCURRED to me!Tomorrow first thing . I'm watching this again.

[@chrishanson4025]

Danke sehr, spitze!

[@Sinistralian]

I'm not sure if the string twist is possible with a heavy warbow, but I did find that you can press the middle digit of the middle finger against the nock to keep the arrow in place. I suspect an arrow rest would also do a lot to minimize the wobble of the arrows. What I'm most worried about is the fact that Shad didn't loose a single arrow in the video; he's just tensing and un-tensing, skipping the actual loosing of the arrow where a lot of energy from the bow goes back into the body. WIth the English longbow method of leaning into the bow, the latissimus dorsi handles most of the work and shock. With the inward cant Shad uses to keep the arrow from falling off, I think he might be hyperextending the wrist and the shoulder to a lesser extent, which could be bad. It would be interesting to hear which muscles he had sorest the next morning, too. Also regarding the knuckle-side khatra, I've found that it works best when you kind of "punch" down and forward (as if you were punching towards the feet of someone standing in front of you) with the bow, rather than whipping it inwards in a mirror of the palm-side khatra. While inferior to the palm-side khatra in accuracy and power due to the muscles involved and the angle of the push, it still gets a pretty clean release with a little bit of extra 'oopmh' behind it.

[@eniklisnihm4565]

Never considered a way around the archer's paradox using this, Ill have to try it!

[@tammynfletcher]

Cozmei claims that you should twist your hand away from the bow upon release using Slavic draw to help clear the bow. Makes sense and I'll bet you'll find he's actually twisting the string at the same time. And one of the best archers in history! Thank you Armin I love your videos on different draw techniques. Makes sense historically!!!!

[@theezZENtials]

i shoot in the right with a "pinch" draw.... no one told me to, it naturally happened from the first bow i held...i love it

[@blairhayden8955]

Wow. Great video. I don't think I have ever seen you use a long bow, and definitely have never seen you use a hand guard. Beautiful looking bow. I must admit I find Shad's videos good, but always too long. He likes to ramble, same as NuSensai. That's why I find it funny when people comment here and say you ramble, this a 25 minute video and all informative. Great work.

[@ArminHirmer]

Thank you. Handguard because mod the weak spined arrows :) otherwise neverrrrr

[@robsarchery9679]

Got to try that

[@keithatwood5648]

20 different release, 20 different ways to hold the bow, 100 differnt spine and weight, 100 different draws, 40 different anchors . I love how simple bow shooting is 😂

[@zeta8512]

As someone very new to archery I think this video is very important. I started when corona hit, and I've have been learning through practice and videos . I'm maybe a couple thousand arrows deep at best , but your message about different styles is helpful. I'm sure that I'm not 100% correct in my form, but finding an effective way to hit your target is far more important. I have not shot from the right side of the bow yet, but it seems completely viable. Thanks for the un-biased review on a controversial technique. Happy learning everyone!

[@designandcreativity4155]

The slow motions it's amazing! You can see perfectly the movements of the arrows and understand the spine and how the arrow flecting! I guess you shoot the camera at 60 fps? 🤔 The osmopocket is a very versatile camera! Wonderful even the rhythm! This video particularly impressed me... Great!

[@ArminHirmer]

thank you. 120FPS

[@designandcreativity4155]

@@ArminHirmer ah wow that's why is so fluid! Spectacular!

[@SuePZZ]

Wow! What great information, thanks Armin. I don't think there's anything in Archery GB or NFAS rules that say what side of the bow the arrow has to be on, just that a Mediterranean draw is required. I could go up or down in poundage a bit and use the same arrows. Definitely worth a try!

[@qg786]

Thank you for your opinion on the matter. 😌😌

[@luger9857]

I grew up shooting my dads dads left handed recurve and compounds when i was young untill i got my own compound. him being left and me right handed ment i had a bad grip and the arrow on the "wrong" side of the bow but i hit targets as well as small critters. Now i hunt with a recurve and i would never shoot with the arrow on the other side of the bow for too many reasons. Though its not wrong (have fun thats all that matters. A big part of fun is accuracy) and i would like to try the thumb draw i will never do it on the left side of the bow. I still believe arrow on the"correct" side with proper form and gear tuned in is the most accurate way. Some day i will try the thumb draw with the arrow on the other side but i dont believe i will ever hunt that way. There is no wrong way only a best way. However nothing wrong with an open mind. I did enjoy the video thankyou for the upload

[@andypanda4927]

Arm in must have gotten a better microphone. I can understand him so much better in this video.

[@clear_image_photos5477]

Any tips for keeping hands warm during the colder seasons i know some gloves are made but nothing ive found seems like it would shoot decent or option for thumb draw

[@godzillaburger9690]

100% wool fingerless gloves. They fit over your glove and the protection is still available, as they are fingerless. :-) I have been using mine all winter. Don't get anything but 100% wool, as wool still keeps you warm even if it gets wet.

[@johnhanley9946]

Cool man! 👍

[@howardkay]

I am Sooo glad i just came across this video, as an eglishman now living in New Zealand and only just realused a child hood wish of obtaining a longbow (after shooting a bit of recurve, and getting into tuning arrows !!!?? ) hmm i loved your theories ave explanation. It always seemed to me to be more logical to have arrow on the right of the bow. Do you have a book / more videos, or know of any. . of the techniques you talked of. I love your approach. And now am wanting to learn more

[@AmarHestzuan]

hi armin, while you are in the topic of drawing technique. in the movie "war of the arrows” shows the use of overdraw device. instead of using very short arrow, is it practical to use 28inch arrows but drawn to 33inch with the device? practicality?

[@ArminHirmer]

Hi I did a video about that a while ago. Majra

[@marcoscalebebarcellos5502]

When I was taking archery classes I intuitively tried to take my bow out of the way to improve my aim. Of course, i was shooting the arrow from the rigth side, since it was eastern archery. I didn't know there was a name for it, Hathra? Kathra? Thanks for the video, I think I learned a lot. I wish I had a bow and arrows and enouth space to practice those releasing techniques you showed. It seemed to me that slavic release combined with "kathra" makes for a silent nice silent shooting.

[@discreetgodrayyt8816]

I’ve only been doing archery for about five months but the best way for me and comfortable is the Mediterranean draw on the right hand

[@discreetgodrayyt8816]

Also I’m going to first archery camp/ orientation things this Saturday I was wondering would they force me to switch on the other side and shoot or no?

[@h.cedric8157]

Ahh the right side and left side draw reminds me of that debate about the c-clamp grip and "chicken wing" methods of aiming a carbine/rifle. It's about body mechanics

[@nattinatti8825]

So as a right hand shooter when I want to shoot a modern bowhunter recurve bow mediterranean style with the arrow on the right side, I simply buy a bow for lefthanded shooters because it has the shelf on the right side...

[@florianweienberg9563]

May I ask which poundage the bow had? Because I use a 60#@32 flagella Dei Viking bow and can't manage Khatra in a way that the arrow doesn't slap the bow

[@ArminHirmer]

Takes a bit of practice and maybe stiffer arrows

[@johnminnitt8101]

Interesting experiment, Slavic draw looks worth a try. One quibble, most Mediaeval pictures of Mediterranean release archers don't show arrow on the right, it's at least 50/50. Matt Easton reckoned 70/30 for arrow on left, and I think Shad accepted that figure.

[@ArminHirmer]

Pictures and figures… for me counts what works. And what works for me, might as well have worked for them :) thank you for watching and commenting

[@johnminnitt8101]

@@ArminHirmer I agree with that, it can work and may have been used. My point is more about some over-enthusiastic commenters who leap from there being some pictures of arrow on right to that being the only true historical way and arrow on left a modern perversion to allow some form of novel aiming or something.

[@Alfer2601]

When you do Mediterranean khatra, it is preferred that the bow falls dominantly downwards and a little bit to the side so you can avoid slapstring on your arm. It works for me..

[@lesw.7691]

Armin, is there a preferred tiller when shooting thumb release and right side? Same question for symmetrical/asymmetric design.

[@ArminHirmer]

I dont know

[@ianthompson7190]

Amazing! Is it possible to use this method with cut shelf bows? Can I use this method shooting off my knuckle on my shelved LH bows?

[@ArminHirmer]

Yes

[@raunchyNO]

thank you.

[@MrInsaint]

Outstanding work of archery sir👍 I appreciate it very much🙏 What about centershotbow . Using a lefthand bow for righthands?

[@ArminHirmer]

possible, mostly the grip does not feel comfortable

[@byroneckhardt4131]

I had a right hand American long/flat bow custom built cut to centre, on the right, better than being uncomfortable with a lefty , thats now my go too bow, I still get my Hwarang bow out for special occasions.

[@blainclatworthy5423]

I have tried this style with my recurve, after 12 shots I was shooting close to my aiming point. But I did have to close my non dominant eye.

[@ivanmoser3367]

YOU HAVE SOME VIDEO WITH CENTRALTOPIC HOW TO DEVELOP OR INCREASE ACCURACY IN THUMB DRAW? OR SOME TECHNIQUE OR TARGET WHAT CAN HELP. THANKS.

[@ArminHirmer]

I think I did a video about clear release...

[@gobarb]

Can i ask to make a video where used thumb release with a longbow 50+ pounds? It's very intresting. Will be glad to see.

[@markzimmermann4167]

you can shot fast with right side, speed load from arrows graped with the bow and release with mediterian. Arrows point left up. You need mediterian released with a little brushing to the right side, so the string slips outward not inward and arrow will not hit the bow.

[@Turgz]

Holding arrows in the same hand as a warbow is impractical, unless you have really gigantic hands lol. Learning to hold the arrows in your other hand is the fastest way.

[@ingobojak5666]

Shooting Mediterranean on the left side, your arrow rests in the "V" formed by the top of the fist (side of the index finger) and the bow. The angle of the "V" is basically perpendicular. Shooting Mediterranean on the right side with thumb up, your arrow rests in the "V" formed by thumb and bow. This angle is acute, the gap here is much "tighter". If you shoot through this tighter gap (do not flip the thumb down first), I could see this being systematically different (likely worse?) as the arrow has more to negotiate on the way out. Notably, in your Slavic and thumb release shots from the right, you do not have the thumb up like that. Back to Mediterranean on the right side: if you flip the thumb down before the shot (after having it up for the draw), then you likely want to cant the bow "the other way" as compared to the left side shot, so that the arrow reliably stays on the bow and does not fall off. This may mean leaning the back backwards a bit, rather than forwards a bit, which should be somewhat less comfortable / efficient. All these are little things, and certainly they do not add up to "impossible". But as you go for longer distances, higher draw weights and better accuracy, they may well add up to the preference for the left side that we have now.

[@markswanson3337]

I like breaking pradigms ! :D

[@daniellisy7161]

its just ridiculous, how can there be a wrong side of the bow, this archery dogmatism is absurd

[@dzikimarian4846]

Can you make a review of Hunnish bow by Grozer?

[@ArminHirmer]

when I get my hands on one I will

[@sinisastojkovic2430]

Ich glaube wen man die geschichtlichen Bilder von Egipten bis Mittelalter Sit , war das eine bunte Filfalt von technicken Des pfeilauflegens . Ich glaube das du da Absolut im Recht bist. Super wideo.

[@sinisastojkovic2430]

Nicht ausgeschlossen das Sie bei Bedarf gemischt haben Je nach der Situation.

[@erikkline7197]

is it just me ..but when thumb release is used the bow SEEMED to make more noise.?

[@justinduggan7023]

Where do you buy your longbows?

[@ArminHirmer]

Flagella Dei Hungary

[@mikeorick6898]

Fingers or thumb you can shoot with the arrow on either side. Both work. It does work better w fingers if it is on the L and thumb on the right. It was artistic convention to show the arrow on the side of the bow the viewer is on. Why in a painting w archers shooting at each other, on the left side of the painting the arrow is on the right of the bow, and archers shooting at them on the right side of the picture have it on the left.

[@paramidge8935]

Quite so, painting has it's own forms, fashions, logics and conventions - fine art is not merely illustration and an artist would not worry about any pedantry on something so technically specific to another discrete discipline which may only be of minor or historical reference and not an essential detail to the power of the work. the artist is interested more in Punctum than Studium.

[@vanivanov9571]

Does most art show archers shooting on the right side? I'm not so sure of that... Shad did collect about a dozen random art-pieces where they shot on the right (and the left). But he wasn't showing all the art pieces which didn't show this.

[@vanivanov9571]

I'm pretty concerned about this technique. At 16:34 , while you were demonstrating how stable it was, it slipped off the bow. If that can happen when you are intentionally trying to keep it in place, the chance of it slipping off when you're not paying attention is much higher. The accuracy was also pretty bad, at least today. I think it would be good to compare the speed of you shooting right side versus left. No one has done this yet, and people only assume it will be considerably faster. I expect it won't be much faster, not enough to make it worthwhile for all the compromises you have to make to keep it on the right side of the bow.

[@ArminHirmer]

@@vanivanov9571 interesting idea, I might do a video with a speed comparison

[@vanivanov9571]

@@ArminHirmer I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for sharing your experiments.

[@Kishandreth]

So you're telling me that there is a vast assortment of techniques a person could use to fire a bow, and they might even learn a few different ways depending on the situation? Each technique will have its advantages and disadvantages. One might use a certain technique when in the woods hunting, a different technique in a military fight on open fields and an entirely different technique when on a castle wall. My question is about how natural or easy the draw feels after a little practice? Heard a few comments from testers saying it is easier for them to draw on the right hand side then the left. If the thumb is the guide and all you have to focus on is the draw strength then it should be easier.

[@ArminHirmer]

its all a matter of practice

[@cronkthecrunk]

Is it common for the "top" arm of the bow to be longer?

[@ArminHirmer]

no

[@TheTommy9898]

when i started archery, (I do thumb release) I couldn't do Mediterranean draw on the left side, only on the right side haha

[@tomo-gq2tq]

I made a post about the paradox on the larp page I follow as soon as i saw shad's video and had people comparing how they shoot. In western countries is seems half & half, the funny part is you see movie stars shoot on the right and pro archers shoot left.

[@Archerstidbits]

Was gonna have a quick look at this vid, then i had the video of Shad also, one hour passes like that :-p

[@sketchtherapy1218]

Are leather armbands for archers? I see them in movies some say it’s nonsense others say it’s accurate in any case thick leather armbands would protect the forearms from the string.

[@ArminHirmer]

Armguards used by longbow archers

[@sketchtherapy1218]

Armin Hirmer Armguard not Armband I’m sorry I meant to say armguard my bad, some say it’s useless against most weapons but what if the armgaurds were to protect yourself from the string? I’m no history buff but I love learning from all the practical and historical discussions back and forth through all the channels it’s all fascinating to me keep up the good work.

[@mithrandir6283]

1:32 And that is why you need a good dentist if you own a longbow!😉🤣

[@lib-center96]

The archer's paradox is a strong indicator the Mediterranean was done on the outer side, since arrows could not always be made to each archer's draw weight while bows had to be. This means in large battles and wars in which they were employed it would make sense to shoot from the "wrong" side since spines could be too hard or pliant for the very strong or not so strong compared to the average archer the bowyers and fletchers were making arrows on a mass scale for.

[@draven3838]

I don't use a bow with a shelf because I like to be able to shoot either hand and the katra is vital

[@5ilver42]

2:35 did I just hear a "longman bad" there?

[@playinggames4u364]

I must say I am sorry, to you, and your fellow youtube frinds if I wrote somethings that might feel rude, and to any viewers, it's maybe that I am too passionate to all types of medieval arts, I practice archery, I'm a knife thrower, also axe thrower, jabaline thrower... I can give a pretty good fight with long sword/shield and one handed sword, axe or mace, and probably whatever if you give me a little time to figer out how I can use it to fight... xD Well, that's the thing, it just that lately everybody thinks they have to take lessons to learn something, like cooking, that's a good example. But we have to keep in mind that people use to prepare food without taking lessons... and that it is possible nowadays too. But mostly that sometimes just because you took lessons from people that united and decided to teach something in certain way, that it might not be the only or sometimes even the best way to do it... I'm talking generally here, not just about archery... if everyone just stayed with what they were tought, we woudn't have nowadays: Gauss theorem; electricity, computers, cellphones, radio waves, buildings, bridges, etc. Don't settle, have a curious mind, try on your own, find better or easier ways to do the same. Of course always withing the limits of your knowledge (but hey! you can always expand your knowledge). That is what gets on my nervs, they can teach you how to throw a knife, but they cannot teach you how to feel if the knife is well balanced, that you have to learn on your own, because you have to feel that... how far can you throw a knife and get it to pierce a wooden plate?: depends on the knife edge, shape, balance, weight, your own strenght and how well you calculate distance, wind deflection, gravity force, eficiency of your technic... the most important part of this features is to know how your body works, to make natural moves, to use the body correctly. You can get a grade on medicine, or you can figer it out on your own testing the things with care... And remember: there were always a first person to do something, and there was no teacher to show him/her how. They became the teachers, and their students helpped them to perfect the task. It is always like that, if you settle, you will never know if you're living something behind unnoticed...

[@johnlynch6695]

That's the only way i've shot a bow.

[@motordude67]

I am a novice in archery. I have made several bows and they work well. When I picked up the bow to shoot it for the first time I went for what felt most confortable and natural. I am a right hander, and hold the bow with my right hand and the arrow on the outside. It feels clumsy and slow to put the arrow on the inside of the bow. I don't understand the discussion, people should pick the style that feels natural for them, not what is considered right or wrong.

[@paulbowman6230]

and with a broadhead ? ! very difficult to ignore the spine whatever way to release