HOW TO: Fundamental Lightroom Classic Printing Workflow!

[@robwilliams5774]

Hi Art, I just found your videos on You Tube a few days ago. I truly appreciate your expertise and explanations. Most of the videos are way beyond my understanding. But, they add to my knowledge base. I have been researching computers and display screens because I'm in the market for a new computer. I'm also a photographer using Lightroom classic. Thanks so much for sharing.

[@ArtIsRight]

Welcome!

[@willperalta3276]

Hi Art! Thanks so much for this video! I just upgraded into a macbook for my photography business and have been struggling on getting my epson printer to output the color & sharpness that I want. Your video has certainly helped my get to where I want and have picked up things to ease my printing workflow. More power to you!

[@ArtIsRight]

Great to hear!

[@amithalder6458]

Thanks a lot. This is what I was looking for. Thanks. Subscribed.

[@ArtIsRight]

Welcome!

[@dorothykloss5303]

This was great! I did not know you could change different profiles or Intent in soft proofing.

[@ArtIsRight]

Absolutely!

[@arturosantotomas601]

Great demo, really interesting, source of many problems for me

[@ArtIsRight]

Awesome!

[@sasanakbari5215]

Thanks for this amazing video. I was looking for a complete tutorial like this and couldn't find a good one until I find your video today. Sooo professional video. Subscribed immediately!

[@ArtIsRight]

Thank you!

[@LuckyDutch2011]

Art - very helpful video. I just printed my first large print (A3plus) on my Canon Pro 9000 II that I obtained (for free) from a fellow photographer. There is much I need to learn about Lightroom and printing and your videos appear to be exactly what I need. I have two MacBook Pros that I will be working from for the moment being, but I see myself buying an additional monitor in the future as well. I am pretty sure I will have questions for you in the near future.

[@ArtIsRight]

Glad this help out and anytime you have a question just drop me a comment ;)

[@minimejdh]

I am interested in how you organize in Lightroom including how you name or tags an image with the color space used. For example one might have 2 edited versions: one in sRGB for web and another for adobe RGB for print. Also sometimes I round trip from Photoshop and back to Lightroom where I catalog my photos. How does that impact colorspace workflow. Lastly would be great to see workflow when sending to a photo lab to print. Thank you!

[@ArtIsRight]

I'll see if I can add that to the list. As far as color space management in LR, it does it automatically by itself. Throughout the program it uses Pro Photo RGB and in Dev Module it use Melissa RGB. Color is managed automatically. The whole concept of this is explained here kzbin.info/www/bejne/faaUn6R7m52psMk

[@ArtIsRight]

Give that a look first and then follow up if you have more questions.

[@gdoria74]

Hi Art! Congrats on the fantastic work you have been doing! My monitor is not very good and you made me start to consider investing on a Benq monitor (when I get to afford one). My question is actually a request/suggestion for this printing playlist. As I use external printer services, I would like tips on this workflow.. from exporting files, configs, icc profiles to import, contrast configuration when developing the photos, how to choose paper kind for different outputs, framing, types of framing, types of framing glasses, glass vs no glass, how to rate a printer service, what to look for... and so on and so forth

[@ArtIsRight]

Some things are preferences, other are more quantitative. For printing service you just have to order some test print and see. Other are personal preferences including the paper.

[@telkirton]

Great video and subscribed :)

[@ArtIsRight]

Awesome thank you!

[@mchance65]

Hi Art, How does the printer profile know what luminance your monitor is profiled with. My printed image matches my monitor much more closely when the latter is profiled with luminance set at 90 then when it is profiled with luminance set at 120. I was quite disappointed when comparing the results at 120. Thanks for your informative videos on work flow and also on Mac hardware.

[@ArtIsRight]

It does not, but print luminance is a set standard. So you have you calibrate your display to match the print luminance range, which is about 80-120 nits depending on your environment. So if 90 works better then calibrate to 90 nits. Remember that this is done to evaluate the print at the instant you are comparing it.

[@mchance65]

@@ArtIsRight Hi Art, thanks for your reply. I haven't found this clarification anywhere else. I wish the handshake between printer and monitor profile were more precise. Some questions in the same vein though. If I profile my monitor with another luminance setting and while doing so adjust the monitor brightness sliders to match the luminance target in the visual instructions will this render the previous monitor profiles useless? Or, for that matter, will adjusting any of the sliders affect the monitor profiles? And what about the color and contrast (which seems never involved in the calibration loop) sliders? Should we leave these untouched or remember the settings for each profile? Thanks for your patience.

[@mchance65]

Hi Art. The bulbs that you recommend from Amazon are listed as non-dimmable. However I see that you are able to dim them with the Lutron dimmer which I purchased. Can you confirm that the bulbs are the correct ones? Thanks.

[@ArtIsRight]

The bulbs on amazon are non dimmable, the one that I got was from Home Depot made by Cree, they are dimmable. Most of them will not be.

[@MrGrindstugan]

Thanks for another great video! I recently bought a BenQ SW270C out of your rcommendation. Like many others, I have the problem of the print turnning out too dark in relation to the edited image. I would love to get your advice and workflow on how to get the lightness to match between the display and print.

[@ArtIsRight]

Thank you. Are you calibrating using PME and what is the luminance value that you are using? Are you printing in house or through a lab?

[@MrGrindstugan]

I calbrated using PME and used 80 as the luminance value- again based on your recommendation. I’m using an Epson SureColor P600 printer.

[@ArtIsRight]

What light bulb or lighting condition are you viewing your print? My screens are calibrated at 80 nits and they match print density fairly well. In this video I am also using a similar printer to what you have, just one that can print larger. Also are you printing with the manufacturer profile?

[@MrGrindstugan]

@@ArtIsRightThanks for taking the time to answer my questions! I'm viewing my prints in daylight. Also, I have the slider for lightness in the color adjustment tab for my printer set to +20 for the print to come close to the display. Must be some way to make them match without this adjustment?

[@MrGrindstugan]

I'm printing on Canson Infinity Baryta Prestige 340g and I'm using the profile for this paper.

[@mahdiali6732]

This is very informative video. I have a question. I made a blurb phonebook for black and white images through Lightroom and most of the prints had green tint. What could have gone worng?

[@ArtIsRight]

That is something that I see a lot. Truth be told Blurb is not the best company for color consistency. But they are convenient. This may or may not solve your issue but it is something that you can try out. 1. Change the image profile to Mono Chrome helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/image-tone-color.html 2. Or you can try this LRC export B&W or color as RGB color image. So one way of getting around this would be to export the edit B&W files to PS and change the color mode into gray scale. This will strip out all of the RGB color information. You can just save this file back to LRC. So I would try to make a small sample book with these 2 method along with your original method and see if this improves the B&W print in blurb. One thing to not is that I would not put 3 of these images on 1 page, because the rendering intent of the print will take into account everything on that page. I would separate them each into their own page. Let me know how this goes.

[@mahdiali6732]

@@ArtIsRight truly appreciate your response. Thanks

[@mahdiali6732]

@@ArtIsRight Which other company would you recommend, if I may ask..

[@ArtIsRight]

For the price and overall quality of Blurb I would stick with them. There are other companies out there similar to blurb but the quality is not good, this would include Shutterfly, snapfish, moxie, etc. I tried most of them and as imperfect blurb might be I still use them

[@onon7600]

Hi, thank you for providing gtreat content each time. In this video, you mentioned colorimeter is better at display calibration than spectrophotometer. Can you explain why?

[@ArtIsRight]

Faster and from my test tends to produce better result because even though Colorimeter measurement spectral information is modeled from a spectrophotometer. The measurement interval are shorter both during the measurement duration and in-between duration, and because of this you get a faster calibration but a better result as well because that short measurement negate any variation that comes from refresh rate.

[@onon7600]

@@ArtIsRight Hi Art, Thank you for responding promptly. Would it be a software issue then, i.e. i1 profiler vs. i1 studio? I have an Eizo monitor with Color Navigator 7 software, which is compatible with both i1 Display Pro Colorimeter and i1 Studio Spectrophotometer. I also own i1 Studio Spectrophotometer. Should I buy an i1 Display Pro Colorimeter if it produces better calibration results?

[@ArtIsRight]

If you have the i1Studio I would just stick with that. They will still produce good result and generally I don't recommend any one get both unless you are like me doing lots of testings and etc.

[@onon7600]

@@ArtIsRight Thank you, Art.

[@ArtIsRight]

:)

[@Stainlessapien]

HI Art, What is the icc profile you set for your image in lightroom and or photoshop? Also what color space would you recommend when editing an image in camera raw? I've noticed that if I have my color space set as my main calibrated monitor profile in camera raw and photoshop it will open the image in photoshop as "untagged". If I then convert the image profile to say ProPhoto, Adobe RGB, or sRGB there is a color shift. Sometimes by a lot. Please help!

[@ArtIsRight]

What is the icc profile you set for your image in lightroom and or photoshop? Depends on your color workflow. LR/LRC it is auto, you don't set. PS you can set and that is a decision that you have to determined based on your workflow. Also what color space would you recommend when editing an image in camera raw? ACR is similar LR/LRC, I believe you don't set the gamut when working just when export to a program such as PS or to a file type. Again this is dependent on your color workflow. I've noticed that if I have my color space set as my main calibrated monitor profile in camera raw and photoshop it will open the image in photoshop as "untagged". That is the issue. Watch this video to get around this, the solution is a few min into the video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/faaUn6R7m52psMk If I then convert the image profile to say ProPhoto, Adobe RGB, or sRGB there is a color shift. Sometimes by a lot. Please help! Color will change when you covert them, there's a gamut translation that is happening. Are you on Mac or PC?

[@marshallpostnikoff3850]

Great video. I have basically the same setup as you do, but not showing the same options in Lightroom CC ver 9.4. In the Print Module under Color Management the only paper options showing are the latest options, mainly Legacy options, not the Velvet Fine Art, or Ultra Premium Photo Paper Luster which I use most of the time. Can't seem to find any of these ICC profiles. I can although find from the Printer Setting>Printer Setting>media type> Ultra Premium Photo Paper Luster. Will that work without setting the Lightroom Color Management Profile. Alternatively can you point me where I can find these ICC profiles for the SC-P800 printer? Thanks and keep posting.

[@ArtIsRight]

Hi Marshall, do me a favor, go to system preferences - printers and scanners. In the list select the EPSON P800 and to the right of that list, below the picture of a printer is a header called "kind:" What does yours say? Please list the whole thing for me.

[@marshallpostnikoff3850]

@@ArtIsRight Sorry for the delay. There are two P-800 listings, one listed as EPSON SC-P800 Series-FEDC20 indicating that it AirPrint and the second EPSON SC-P800 Series-FEDC20 (IP) listed as EPSON SC-P800 Series

[@mrz1342]

Beside using xrite, do I need to install and use Mirage as well? Thank you

[@ArtIsRight]

I'm not familiar with mirage, would you elaborate on what that is.

[@mrz1342]

@@ArtIsRight it is a popular software when you download on computer connected to printer, it controls performance of printer’s nuzzles based on selected paper profile which all are available in this software. I met a printing house, printing my high resolution photograph through this software by selecting what printer and what paper, that’s it. Their monitor was not colour calibrated at all and couldn’t see what they are printing but because of Mirage software they said we are sure the final print will be same as the file you gave us! And it was true, the print was perfect. That’s why I asked you that based on your well experience, by having and using Xrite i1 pro package, could I calibrate monitor, as well as printer upon paper profiles, or still I need another software like Mirage to control automatically my printer performance?

[@ArtIsRight]

I see, so based on the premise that you tell me, I would try without mirage first. I never used that and got great results. I think it is unnecessary and if you are not working on a good calibrated display to start with, then you are still always shooting at a target blindfolded. So the print can match the file, which is great but if what you see is no correct, that is the bigger issue.

[@dianarenelliphotographer]

Hi Art, this is great. Can you update this video same set up. Epson has changed their printing screens so I can’t find where to turn off colour management. I also have an ione display calibrater and I can’t find the updated software to update it and run it. I use the exact set up you have here which was working perfect and now it’s a mess Help!!!! Please

[@ArtIsRight]

Please dm me on fb or insta or email me for help

[@carolinef.7118]

Thanks Art, this is really helpful. What I would like to know, in some cases I want to print a photo in a taylor made size for specific frames. Do you know what is the best way to do this in Lightroom? Thanks, Edith

[@ArtIsRight]

So what you would do is crop the image to the aspect ratio of the size that you want in Develop Module first. And then you would go into the print module. From there you would choose the exact paper size or the next size up and then similar to what I've shown in the video input the width and height of the print. I hope this helps and what I am sharing makes sense. If you have any follow up let me know. Also what size are you trying to print?

[@carolinef.7118]

Art Thanks for your reaction. I want to print 20 cm by 29 cm. Just a little smaller than A4. Edith

[@ArtIsRight]

So yes what I would do is print the image on A4 size paper, do a custom crop in Develop Module and crop it to a custom aspect ratio of 20x29 aka 20:29 and the in LR Print Module - left panel - layout panel and just input the cell size as 20 x 29 cm, you might have to covert that unit into inches.

[@carolinef.7118]

Thank you Art. Your reaction is much appreciated. Edith

[@ArtIsRight]

You're welcome

[@alanward4551]

Hi Art, have you every used the Canon print studio pro plugin to print?

[@ArtIsRight]

I haven't and I don't have a canon printer in studio to test.

[@questo8698]

Art can you give us a report on latest Palette Master Elements V1.3.11. Thanks....

[@ArtIsRight]

I ran some test on it for both Mac and PC, overall it seems to be working ok for me. However, some are still having issues. For those individual the recommendation is to try and revert back to 1.3.8 and most seem to be working ok.

[@colinsphoneemail]

I just calibrated my SW271 with it the other day., seems to work fine., passed validation using Native panel.

[@ArtIsRight]

Glad to hear!

[@ArtIsRight]

Part of the reason why I haven't made a video about 1.3.11 is because it is not a significant update other than a minor bug fix and there are no major issues that are different from 1.3.10. :)

[@questo8698]

@@ArtIsRight Art thanks, when 1.3.10 came out it seemed as though there were a number of people having problems. I am hoping with this new 1.3.11 that will have been remedied. I should have the Benq SW270C delivered soon and hoping the calibration will not be an issue. It will be paired with a 2017 MacBook Pro 3.3 GHz Intel Core i5 16 GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3 with Intel Iris Plus Graphics 650 1536 MB Mojave 10.14.6. Will be using i1 Display Pro upon your recommendation. Working mainly in Lightroom Classic. Thanks for all your invaluable help.

[@antonomaseapophasis5142]

How do you edit and organize images in Lightroom?

[@ArtIsRight]

That is a long answer. I'm working on putting together content for that right now that will be available on KZbin. Please give me sometime.

[@antonomaseapophasis5142]

@@ArtIsRight Granted. (and thank you)

[@steenaagenielsen8798]

For Epson p800. Why not use 360 ppi

[@ArtIsRight]

based on my testing 240, 300, 360 makes very little difference in the out come.

[@stephanedeneuville8824]

Hello Art concerning Epson P600, I have a huge problem. Called Epson and no one is really helping me out.... I use Epson Photo Quality Inkjet paper and I can't find the icc profile for it. Do you know a place where I could find it ?

[@ArtIsRight]

Epson ICC is supposed to be installed automatically with Epson Driver for the printer.

[@jennifersmith7825]

Hello!!!! Can you tell me how you are saving your files and if that makes a difference for the print? ADOBE 1998, etc? I am having a very hard time having colors match and my print previews are way off from what I am producing as a saved file in Lightroom and Photoshop. Thanks in advance!!!

[@ArtIsRight]

Are you calibrating your display? If so how, also what display are you using and what light source are you viewing your prints on?

[@gregt8655]

Hi Art, I don't know if you can help, but since I updated my Mac desktop to OS Catalina my prints in Lightroom no longer match my screens colours. Everything comes out very muted and washed out, especially skin tones. I downloaded the latest drivers for my Epson Pro 3880 and reloaded the proper ICC Ilford paper profiles, but still no change, very frustrating. I just downloaded the latest Epson Print Layout software and my photo's seem to print exactly as seen on my computer screen. So I'm assuming it's a Lightroom problem. I like to use LRClassic print module for the flexibility with the print templates. Just wondering if you might be able to help. Thanks also for the content you provide very helpful.

[@ArtIsRight]

I have been printing from Catalina without any issues. Are you checking when you print from LR to see if color control is turned off on the print driver like I showed in the video? Also are you calibrating your display? LR could be the issue as well, are the print adjustments turned off in LR? There are so many places where this can go wrong. Let's start with these questions

[@gregt8655]

@@ArtIsRight Thanks Art, yes I'm printing exactly the same way as you. I will check LR to see if the print adjustments are turned off because the trouble only started after an update. Thanks Greg.

[@ArtIsRight]

👍🏼

[@Yoyoda_del_umbra]

Thanks ! 🙌

[@ArtIsRight]

You bet!

[@privatei4772]

Hi I’m wondering if you can help, I tried everything no luck. I have a new Epson P900 and ran into a weird issue with printing. With Lightroom 11.5 and now 12.1. The print options for print quality is is greyed for max quality and max quality carbon black. I can’t change the print dpi any further then 1440dpi. I don’t understand what’s going on, Epson luster paper, bartya etc. It’s so weird. I have full access in photoshop, safari etc, but not Lightroom classic. Reinstalled the printer drivers, but no luck. I contacted adobe and they say it’s not supported, clearly not true. Any help would be great.

[@ArtIsRight]

There are times when LRC does not work or talk with the print dialog properly. I don't have that specific printer in the studio, other wise I would test it. I like to help you more but I am unable to at this point. A solution that works would be export files from LRC to PS and print from there. 1 more step in the workflow, I know but non the less a great walk around that is known to work.

[@privatei4772]

@@ArtIsRight thanks for your reply. I discovered if I create custom print sizes, it then works as it should, full control over the Quality settings. I contacted Adobe and they told me Lightroom doesn’t support those higher print settings, I was flabbergasted. I never seen this issue in Lightroom before even though it works fine in Photoshop,Epson print etc, but not Lightroom. NowI’m wondering if I use custom sizes, will it adversely affect the print platen gap, or will it adjust that correctly with the paper type selection. I haven’t been able to contact Epson yet I used to know somebody years ago, but that was years ago. I haven’t printed for a couple of years, and I was pleasantly surprised how good this P900 is, shockingly good. The new Epson legacy palatine paper, blew me away. The dynamic range and the Dmax of this paper is something I’ve been hoping for years. Anyway, I don’t know what to do next but I guess I’ll try to contact Epson and see what they say. If anybody else here sees these messages and you know anybody at Epson or you’ve seen this problem let us know. Again, thanks for your help. I’m sorry I missed you in Toronto. Something came up I couldn’t go. PS sorry for the crappy writing I’m typing this on my iPhone, not ideal.

[@ArtIsRight]

So firstly Adobe Support, we like to think of them as smart, however, just remember that most of the time these are just ordinary citizen that has very little to no interest in photography just reading to you what they search on the internal and internet data base. I.e. don't expect much when it comes to granular questions such as the one that you are facing. About the custom paper size, it is just the physical size of the paper, won't affect the printing, other parameter in the settings control those specific parameter such as the paper type, ink set, resolution and etc. No worries about Toronto and iPhone typing, hopefully next time :D

[@mcddetectrespect.7467]

Thanks for the video, one point though, I’m new to printing and I use a canon 8750 printer and have now started to let the printer manager the colour in the print module as skin tones were very orange in all my prints ,I pick paper profiles in develop mode and printer in print module and all my colours match what I see on screen. I’ve seen a few other photographers using this method as the paper icc profile has already been picked . Is this a bad way of printing. Thanks again.

[@ArtIsRight]

You're welcome. That is a round about way of color matching, choosing the paper profile in develops have nothing to do with the print module printing, unless you made a virtual copy in develop with that print profile applied to the image. Essentially, this is like playing roulette with prints, many times it will work but occasionally it will not and a few it will just flat out fail. Color management is a precise act and science, as long as your method work, you are good but when it fail, tracing the issue would be difficult because the whole process uses is a house of cards.

[@atephoto]

Hello Art. I got more news about BenQs Palette Master Elements. In new version the "panel native" is completely broken. I just did a calibration, then a verification and it was verified even if it looked too dark. I opened DisplayCal and whitepoint measure to 40, not 110 as I asked for. Seems like this Palette Master software can't be trusted anymore. Every second release break the measurements and verification. Please tell the BenQ guys you know about this. I'm on Windows. The sRGB for graphics settings was a lot brighter and was relative more accurate in DisplayCal with 108 vs 110. The whitepoint color itself is still off in both native and sRGB.

[@ArtIsRight]

Rather than using DisplayCal to check the brightness can you use i1Profiler instead? Just do a calibration with manual brightness control and the program will give you a brightness read out. Also described how is the white point off?

[@atephoto]

@@ArtIsRight Yes, the luminance off the monitor is about 40 in both DisplayCal and i1Profiler. The measurements are correct, however Palette is not even if it verifies the new values to be correct. If set whitepoint is D65 (center of DisplayCal Interactive Adjustment, then R is very low, G is a bit higher and B is hitting the zero or "target" if you like. To get somewhat correct calibration I had to calibrate "Adobe primaries" or "sRGB primaries", then the monitor would be brighter and the whitepoint ... well ... usable.

[@ArtIsRight]

If you are willing I would like to gather some data of your set up. If you could answers these questions for me this would be great. 1. What computer (Laptop - Mac specify the model, year and size, Desktop, iMac, all in 1 PC, custom build, etc ) 2. What is your Operating System (OS) version are you using? (For Mac please specify the dot release, for Windows please specify version / build number) 3. What calibrator are using? 4. What version of PME are you using? 5. What BenQ model do you have? 6. What cable are you using to connect your BenQ to your computer for the display signal, HDMI, Display Port, etc. 7. If you are using USB-C skip this question, if not, are you using a USB link cable between your laptop and display? 8. If you are using Mac was this a clean install or was the OS upgraded from a previous version at any point (I.e. From Mojave 10.13.x to Catalina 10.14.x)? Or was this Mac restore from a back up, time machine or other wise? 9. For PC, what GPU are you using? If Nvidia are you using their new Studio Driver? 10. Were you able able to successfully pass the validation at some point?

[@questo8698]

@@ArtIsRight Art is this a rare case or the norm. Have looked through many of your videos pertaining to Palette Master Elements and it is concerning that Benq is not investing enough in producing high quality software. Quite puzzling. Thanks

[@ArtIsRight]

@Quest O, this is more of the rare case. What happens I think is that their software is ok, I'll admit that it can be buggy at times but they are actively working on fixing it. This said, what usually happens is that certain hardware, software and driver combinations on some machine may result in conflict as you see. The other thing to remember too is that there are more successful calibration than failed one, you usually never hear about the successful ones.