Barbara McQuade in conversation with Joyce Vance | How Disinformation is Sabotaging America

Join MSNBC's legal expert Barbara McQuade as she addresses the pressing issue of disinformation and its impact on our society. McQuade delves into the ways disinformation is used to manipulate voters, undermine legal systems, and concentrate power. She highlights the dangers of disinformation, which comes from various sources including far-right opportunists and foreign influencers. McQuade also discusses how technology, particularly artificial intelligence, exacerbates the problem by amplifying false claims.
In this enlightening discussion, McQuade explains the authoritarian playbook of disinformation and its historical roots, from Mussolini to Trump. She explores tactics such as demonizing opponents, fostering nostalgia, and attacking the media, and discusses their effectiveness. McQuade also examines whether America's First Amendment freedoms make it particularly susceptible to disinformation and proposes strategies to combat its spread.
Don't miss this crucial conversation on combating disinformation and protecting our democracy.
Notes:
March 4, 2024
Speaker photo courtesy the speaker.
SPEAKERS
Barbara McQuade
Legal Analyst, NBC News and MSNBC; Author, Attack from Within: How Disinformation Is Sabotaging America; X @BarbMcQuade
In Conversation with Joyce Vance
Legal Analyst, NBC and MSNBC; Distinguished Professor from the Practice of Law, University of Alabama School of Law; X @JoyceWhiteVance
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[@deborahlukovich8006]

Intelligent women are kicking butt these days saving Democracy. 💗

[@luck484]

Agreed, although women could hardly do more poorly than the status quo.

[@lulumaddie1164]

Barb McQuade is amazing! I watch her on MSNBC, but I didn't realize what a profound political philosopher she is. I will buy her book just so I can be prepared when I go door to door to get out the vote!! America loves you Barb, keep up the good work. Joyce Vance is also a great political partner to help save American democracy.

[@JeanGillespie-fp7rs]

Brilliant!!!!

[@deborahbottai6915]

I enjoy listening and laughing with you both! Two women who are not only admired for their expertise in criminal and civil law, also their commitment to explaining their knowledge to those of us who are not attorneys! And waiting and waiting for Trump to suffer accountability and consequences for the American people , and our allies. Thank you Joyce and Barb.

[@JeanGillespie-fp7rs]

Clean sweep ro prison!!!!

[@brianruppert1071]

Two of my favorite legal experts!! Fantastic.

[@bilfleming9036]

I suggest skipping the first 6 minutes of blather

[@EvolutionWendy]

​​@@bilfleming9036thanks! SKIP TO SIX MINUTES. Really.

[@M-T-123]

Go Spartans

[@marihughes8852]

Go BLUE!! MICHIGAN!! Vote BLUE MICHIGAN!!!💙🌊🌊💙🌊🌊💙🌊🌊💙

[@janetives5470]

They’re so serious when commentating. It’s nice to them in this sort of informal setting.

[@acmepost]

Two brilliant women, in a brilliant conversation. Informative, entertaining, and far more than just a book promotion. Bravo!

[@classicalaid1]

Nicely put.

[@kmlund42]

I love both of these women. I am proud how far we have come and that strong woman are much needed and valued today. Thank you ladies for my positive vibes this morn.

[@kxmanners5416]

Barbara and Joyce - Thank you for all you do to help us decipher important legal issues of the day! I encourage everyone to tune in to their podcast #Sisters In Law.

[@EricSmith-wt2qu]

Call it what it is, lying. We need to make lying wrong again! We need to end the "just say it" mentality being accepted!

[@ronchecora5266]

Please put a band together and take this show on the road!!!

[@teresaparnham9780]

They did. I believe Sisters in Law will be traveling this spring.

[@marihughes8852]

They’ll be in Chicago, Detroit, Boston and a few other towns. All the sister’s hometowns.

[@JKART-do5jc]

Excellent Barbara and Joyce. Thanks for the work you both do

[@vsquare5653]

Great discussion. Really enjoy both of these attorneys, I see them frequently on the cable news networks, and respect their commentary and professional explanations of the law. Will suggest Barbara’s book to our book club, a group of super bright, witty and dedicated women who want to save our democracy.

[@patj4952]

Two of the absolute best of the legal profession. I learn something new every time I hear them. They do the legal profession and your students proud. Thank you for coming to my neck of the woods.

[@kmlund42]

What a lovely interview. Thank you both for my morning encouragement.

[@createthyme8653]

Great show sisters!

[@karinschultz5409]

Great conversation. Thank you for tackling this disinformation era. Unfortunately people confuse Public Relations with Journalism.

[@erickborling1302]

"Public relations?" In clickbait yeah but that's "advertising." Or in news-commentaries which prolly wouldn't be called PR; but instead called editorializing or propaganda.

[@leliabrigmon5896]

Barbara and Joyce such a bright people! I love learning from them. They are brilliant!! Thank you for the book and the program!

[@katherinehicock9452]

Thanks to both of you ladies for all your hard work. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@kenb1376]

I could listen to Barbara McQuade all day long. Absolutely fascinating.

[@susanblakey-grusing9468]

Thank you for the book & this show. USA needs the Conversation .

[@lisesoly1621]

Wow. I'm impressed

[@alicecrystalpalace]

If you're attracted by a headline, the true story is usually in the 3rd, 5th, maybe even 7th paragraph. Do NOT be bullshitted by clickbate headlines! Read the whole thing. Excellent tip. 👍

[@teacher01ful]

Love both these ladies. Looking forward to reading Barbs book.

[@cindypomerleau950]

Im glad I didn't miss this. Such an important problem to tackle. Thank you.

[@clarencemoore1079]

Awesome discussion from two intelligent and talented qomen!!!

[@alicecrystalpalace]

Two of my favourite women in the World! I mean, they already were, but after this? WOW! What a great interview! They're just wonderful. I love them so much! 😊😄❤💙💖💙💙💙☘🥰👍 PS... I took notes. I learned a lot. Again. As I always do, listening to either of them! ❤

[@JeanGillespie-fp7rs]

Thanks ladies!!!

[@dr.jillboltetaylor6288]

fantastic conversation, love these smart women!

[@lfithaca]

Love seeing these two super-smart women cut loose from their network responsibilities, able to be free-wheeling and playful on the topics of law and life.

[@CynicalTimes]

Just found this and it was absolutely invigorating. I follow Barb and Joyce on MSNBC every chance I get. They give me hope in our democracy.

[@marnavanloo7302]

Great to see their personalities here.

[@JeanGillespie-fp7rs]

Sure do!

[@justthefactsfolks]

Thank you @CECLUB, and special thanks to JV and BMc, such learned guests, I appreciate them so much for their work. Barb, I'm stealing truth over tribe for sure!

[@JeanGillespie-fp7rs]

Totally!!!

[@user-qg3wl7rf5m]

I have learned so much from these two great gals in the last few years !!!

[@alicecrystalpalace]

Omaha Beach, Normandy, France. Amazing place, very impressive. Be prepared to get chills down your spine & tears in your eyes... ❤🙏💔

[@alicecrystalpalace]

Being European, I had a chance to visit several WWII sites... The beaches in Normandy, (history lesson: Omaha is NOT the only beach...) www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f69dae79bff16cff&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C5CHFA_enIE916IE916&sxsrf=ACQVn0_2vGfQiSPYfiexKrb4gCrE63sHcQ:1712860770691&q=What+were+the+5+beaches+on+D-Day%3F&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwimpKXO57qFAxW2V0EAHXunD5QQzmd6BAgeEAY&biw=1440&bih=664&dpr=2. But also several other camps like Auschwitz, which was the worst but most certainly not the only camp. Visiting Auschwitz was chilling. I'll never forget the cold of the place, the chill down my spine, the non-stop goose bumps all over. It's an eerie place.

[@traceysedlakova4383]

I waited until I had an uninterrupted hour to listen to y’all (even though I’m obligated to say Geaux Tigers!) and it was worth the wait. Now to find the uninterrupted time to read all the books I’ve bought and can’t seem to find time for. Moving Barb’s book to high up in that list! Thank you both.

[@loiscase4497]

Ihave her book but haven't had a chance to read it yet. I can't wait

[@lyndasilva8526]

So exciting to have you both here in my neck of the woods, after listening to your Sister's in Law pod. Thank you! You know we are the Flower Power. .

[@Werewolf0216]

That was a very enjoyable interview...two very informative women. Saw a side to both that you don't see from just their political/legal commentary.

[@juliebraden]

yes, definitely. Like getting to know these 2 as much as poss

[@markg.7865]

Excellent conversation Go Blue and Go Lions!!

[@marihughes8852]

Sure hope the Lions win it all this coming season!! 💙 Thanks gals for the great conversation and info! VOTE BLUE 💙🌊💙🌊💙

[@janetmarugg9424]

Great convo, ty!

[@theparadoxicaltouristtrave9320]

Another problem with "balance " is that the media feels like they have to focus equally about each candidate's negatives. If one candidate has 91 negatives and the other one has 1, it's reasonable that the negatives themselves weigh more in an accurate assessment.

[@stephenbeck8209]

100% agree: Eliminate anonymous commenting to curtail personal attacks, especially threatening personal attacks.

[@JeanGillespie-fp7rs]

Absolutely!!

[@Robert-gh4is]

What a great conversation. Thank you both.

[@TEPO--]

A wonderful conversation, thank you. Much appreciated.

[@juliesmith4548]

Good idea with disclosure and no anonymous posting.

[@DeeDee-tq4cg]

Thank you for this conversation!!!!!

[@user-cm2zl2cr8u]

Loved this program!!! ❤ Enjoy these women 🎉🎉

[@classicalaid1]

I am glad to discover the lighthearted sides of B.M and J.V. Usually I experience them commenting on grim political experiences.

[@nomorebushz]

Excellent! Thank you both!

[@MayaJesse10]

I love both of them. It’s great to see them being funny and relaxed

[@SuzanneWho]

Great “talk” with these two intelligent women! Can you have them back without a book promotion, just to expound on various subjects? They are so insightful and easy to listen to and the camaraderie is a plus.

[@cultureal9544]

It comes down to Emotions versus Facts. Guess who does what. No. I take that back. Don't guess. Think it through: which party does what.

[@tomrecane6366]

“If the product is free you are the product”

[@juliebraden]

Thank God we hav people like both Barb & Joyce in America. Level headed, intelligent, informed, experienced people fighting for democracy on behalf of us all.

[@dlcs1406]

Outstanding! Passing it on

[@judithmcdonald9001]

You inspire me. since 2016 I've been saying the law will win out. It's slow but sure. I know how hard it is and you make it look so easy!! Great time! Real problems!

[@Carol94901]

Great program! I’m a fan of Barbara and the Lions. But if they had to lose, they couldn’t have lost to a better team! ❤️❤️❤️

[@crash24420]

I love these women they are honest and amazing !!

[@dianewhalen9721]

Great Conversation!

[@TEPO--]

"Citizens For Journalism", YES !

[@Siris35]

America is very vulnerable.

[@dianewach4168]

Barb is correct: different laws for different times. When I was growing up in the '90s somebody could have bullied me - spread disinformation about me - online; on the internet. It may have happened. It might have been cruel. If it did, I never knew. The majority of my peers and my community would not have even been aware. That's the difference. When the internet was in its infancy it didn't have reach. The laws were made for that system. The world is different. But the laws remain the same.

[@cindybarnett3103]

I'm currently reading her book "Attack from within". It is a very informative!

[@jdarst100]

Can you name anything you didn't know before reading it if so what?

[@katsdeelite]

I love these two! I am a little disappointed that they had to resort to the usual male time waster of sports, we have a lot going on, you two have the eyes and ears of many people who are trying to learn and decrease the possible democratization of our beautiful country (this is said with love}, Katheryn

[@bikrmitch1872]

Breaking the FUX NOISE ADDICTION will naturally heal a brain over time. I saw this in a person I know who was too funancially destitude to afford cable so they cancelled it. A few months of our normal news coverage options and he has become far, far less TOXIC!

[@gpeschke]

Rather than anonymity, Facebook/whatever coining an NFT stating the location(county) and date of first upload similar content and exposing it near the content would solve a lot of things. This is extremely doable, without infringing on anyone's rights, and it's incredibly doable/scalable- though 'similar content' would be a judgment call that needs determined by AI (for scalability).

[@gpeschke]

You want to use an NFT so that Facebook isn't on the hook, and so no other certification agency is needed. Give Conspiracy theorists a harder time, and prevent (presumably the US) government from the awkward position of having power over trust- while it's a clear public good conflicts include spycraft and corruption. NFTs are cleaner for the application.

[@IExpectedBSJustNotThisMuchBS]

The right has developed such a nihilistic approach to politics and life.

[@Gwen2010ish]

Wonderful exchange. Don’t let the Extreme Court silence women!

[@JeanGillespie-fp7rs]

Hell no!!!

[@bikrmitch1872]

Lets not let the facts get in the way of what nonsense we want to believe!

[@ricklocke1187]

Two of my faves along with Maggie haberman

[@twhite8308]

☮️☮️☮️☮️💕☮️☮️☮️☮️

[@tammyburke9453]

you TWO, Women persons are just Fabulous! excellent Role Models!

[@nomorebushz]

Are these 2 brilliant women ever in touch with Rob Reiner?

[@macsam8778]

Justice matters indeed and thanks to the sisters in law who teaches us!

[@born2bwildne744]

Social media accounts should only be given to people or entities that use their real and verified names. It is way too easy to be nasty or crazy while hiding behind an anonymous account name. People and entities should be required to stand behind their speech, accepting responsibility and accountability for their chosen speech. Can that be regulated?

[@kathyjones274]

I have always used my own name and I allow for comments because if you're going to say it stand by it with facts and truths 💯.

[@artiscience]

I am not young, but I have been thinking/struggling with the idea that post-November, I shall feel tempted to ask any US American I meet: how did you vote in 2024? Is that bad? Isn't that bad? Meanwhihle, greetings to many, many US friends.

[@v2gbob]

Barb McQuade is an awesome commentator, lawyer, and professor...she is also Charles Schulz's Peanuts character "Peppermint Patty" in the flesh!

[@williemattie]

This is serious we cannot be playing with this we have to be delivered in terms of the effect that we want to create if you want peace and the spirit of America we're going to have to say no to certain things

[@xdavis18]

I am a big fan of Ms. Vance. An intellectual powerhouse IMHO. I also liked her before she got all glammed up. 😊

[@IExpectedBSJustNotThisMuchBS]

Reigning in Fox would depend on the ability to bring a defamation case (all defamation cases are not equal). They pretty much have free rein to lie and besides, they've learned not to put anything in writing (text or otherwise).

[@paigevanpelt1967]

Brian Kemp, when he was Secretary of State, "cleaned up" the voter rolls before his race against Stacey Abrams for governor.

[@davidwilkie9551]

We're hearing from a lot of Judges and other legal people who have the education AND training on the job of administering a human justice in accordance with Constitutional Democracy and natural probabilistic correlations of the mathematical relationship inherent in QM-TIME Completeness cause-effect. Every body has independent judgment of their own personal behavior, ..leaving the interpretation of values approximation, Logarithmic Time Communication identified as Uncertainty Principle Observation, as the Free Will to Judge, under legitimate legal license that is. Technique of reiterative reintegration by Observation of Condensed Matter materialisation evidence...

[@randalbudd8291]

I wouldn't say san-francisco got "crushed " !

[@tomhessel5449]

There has to be accountability for what is broadcasted. Fox News and Rupert Murdock should be tried for treason.

[@josephgonzalez8972]

It is dangerous. Listen to Paine, Thomas. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Hamilton. The words they wrote defined the country we should inspire of technology. We fail to meet the mark.

[@ksailor71]

Truth over tribe.. I like that

[@cgarrett845]

Love them. I want them to adopt me.

[@dwaynehendricks7842]

Now those are two bright women!!

[@nomorebushz]

DARK MONEY ...

[@jmdec20]

Can you do the one gun salute with an Italian inflection while driving?

[@williamyee3442]

Can we aspire to be a model for the world as a functioning democracy when for 3 years we have been unable to completely address the non peaceful transfer of power in our country in 2020. A act to block the peaceful transfer for power remains unaddressed. What country in its right mind would feel safe adopting such a system. Our legal system has become unable or unwilling to enforce the rule of laws created by the people and is using inaction as a political weapon for hire. Delay becomes Denied. Hey, still waiting for a court to rule whether January 6th was actually an insurrection or just the largest Capitol tour day on record. We have two information silos so delay means both are legitimate sources and both positions carry equal weight for the country.

[@juliesmith4548]

Yes. Flag things that were generated by computers. Disclosure.

[@TEPO--]

AI flagging could be very valuable. I've had serious concerns on behalf of seniors, the elections, their innocence and naivety in regard to Artificial Intelligence, as their trust is authentic.

[@BeatlesBowieKrimson]

I admit it. I'm one of the people who get these two ladies mixed-up.

[@loisschultz8889]

Thank you for this information. I wish this information had been out and about earlier. I did buy your book and listen to Sisters In Law podcast. You bring my temperature down in this political environment. Thanks again.

[@annielindt6245]

Such a treat! Thanks!

[@jmdec20]

I wonder what she thinks of Aileen Cannon ? (Slipped through the cracks?)

[@lauriemahood9347]

I am glad these ladies are such good friends. When we started watching the news 4 years ago (we are artists, didn;t watch the news for 20 years), and I saw these ladies do interviews. i was baffled at first when the smart lady had short hair, then it was long, then it was short again. It took me about a week to figure it out. (Don't worry, I am not a rocket scientist)

[@kimdagnillo8246]

To your point, there’s still too many fools out here

[@andreaandrea6716]

To your point, there ARE still too many fools out here (Literacy matters).

[@sinkpehnarossfire454]

🌎: " 🙂 😊 🖖 " "Pida Pila Miya yeh, a Thank you from a Dakota Lakota NakotaSioux. 🙂"

[@yvonneowens5963]

[@Queenie-the-genie]

MSNBC etc. should unleash you 2. People will hang in there and watch far longer and with more gusto - if they let you be yourselves. A powerful twosome who should be doing a show together each night.

[@richardlynch5745]

is California a commonwealth!? 🤔😳 0:58