Beat The Refund Streams | Castle Super Beast 250 Clip

[@HolyDeviant1]

The fact that the format has not only been highly entertaining, but has also lead Pat to some personal growth and defeated a couple of his mind goblins, means I hope it never truly dies. Maybe a weekly thing?

[@otakon17]

Make it a monthly thing so he doesn't get burnt out.

[@HolyDeviant1]

Or maybe even a bi-monthly thing. It's a great device for refilling his hopper of Things To Play, so it's great for doing between big releases and batches of finished games @@otakon17

[@TyrantWesker]

Doesn't even have to be on a regular schedule, he can just save refund streams to act as filler whenever he isn't streaming anything in particular.

[@gameb9oy]

@@otakon17yeah, I’d like it as an irregular thing, something to keep streams going when the months are more open

[@pickledparsleyparty]

This series is the first Professional Entertainer idea Pat has ever had. It's pretty good.

[@elviejodann6544]

Holy shit, Pat is gonna beat the Algorithm first, he just invented Gameslop streams

[@ElecTrishian924]

Defeat The Algorithm

[@MaximillianRobesphere]

Hmmm… Kafkaesque

[@Prof_Pangloss]

10:45 Quick correction, the artist who composed the music for Dicey Dungeons and Super Hexagon is Chipzel, who is not the same person that composed the VVVVVV soundtrack (Magnus Pålsson). The confusion is probably because Terry Cavanagh is the lead designer/dev behind all three and all of those soundtracks are heavily chiptune-based. Both artists are fabulous.

[@matthewschoen9827]

Pat is going to single handedly change the steam refund policy

[@XShrike0]

Since I was going back through the video to find the games they were talking about, I figured I might as well timestamp and list them. 5:52 Dicey Dungeons 11:58 Pony Island 16:59 The Talos Principle 21:34 Cultic 24:33 Cobalt Core 27:51 Ctrl Alt Ego 28:46 Road 96 31:49 American Arcadia 34:07 Gunbrella 35:01 Little Goody Two Shoes

[@PsychoEditor]

Thank you, saved me time

[@UtoobSuxDix]

If only after Pat mentioned how he thinks people that eat pickles are crazy Woolie's "MmmHmm" was followed up by him grabbing a big pickle from off screen and taking a bite.

[@gameb9oy]

Woolie would never admit he’s just as crazy as Pat

[@fishbiter9409]

An absurdly large pickle.

[@noisetank13]

God, hearing Mystery Box being uttered again makes me so happy for some reason

[@RushandSNLfan]

Love that Pat gamified the Northernlion "Let's Look At" series but geared for neuron activation.

[@sapphomet.7777]

This is an actual genius stream idea from a pure variety level. He says he keeps games that are good even if he doesnt like them. The refund policy is also explicitly there for the “it wasnt for me” reason among dozens of others including runs badly or crashes often. Yall need to chill.

[@krizalllid]

When steam first rolled out refunds, you could lose your ability to refund if you did it too much. Is this not a thing anymore?

[@rigorgrynn]

​​@@krizalllid It's still a thing, got an email about it a few weeks back.

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

who's not chill?

[@luan.galaxy]

I still think he as a streamer should keep all of those games regardless of the "Refund/No Refund" rating

[@verymelonman12]

Pat doing this is the entire reason I learned how fun Midnight Suns actually is. I'm not interested in evert game he's played but I did see a lot of interesting games regardless.

[@leithaziz2716]

Said moment was also how I learned Midnight Suns somehow has one of the best Venom portrayals ever in media.

[@fungusfungi5900]

I’ve seen a game like this centuries ago

[@ElecTrishian924]

His stream is unironically the best advertising the game has ever gotten. I saw it and now I'm 40 hours in and having a blast

[@blaacksugar7714]

Anarchy Reigns is one of my all time favorite games.

[@1wayroad935]

This format has honestly been super refreshing and has been the most entertaining Pat has been in a while

[@PainCausingSamurai]

If Pat doesn't call these steams "Refund Roulette," someone else will steal the idea.

[@Gearuz]

Correction on Little Goody Two Shoes: it's made in Unity, not RPG Maker. The dev's previous game (Pocket Mirror) WAS an RPG maker game, and you can easily tell on that one.

[@DavidEarle]

Five seconds looking at that trailer and I'm like "no way this was RPG Maker but hats off if it was". Was kind of hoping it used Unreal tbh but oh well.

[@gorimbaud]

dope, someone already made the comment i was considering

[@alephnole7009]

Similar in concept to Dicy dungeons is a mobile game I played called Slice & Dice. A rogue like turn based game where 5 party members movies are laid out on a 6 sided die, With evolving classes with unique dice and the ability to add or change the sides with equipment.

[@Robbuffet]

I feel like- having listened to this, Pat is almost becoming a/the successor to Totalbiscuit. He's from the same generation of gamer, is fairly cynical in his reasoning but without being inamicable, and now he's producing content based on first-looks of more obscure games in such a way that it's both entertaining and pro-consumer. Good for him.

[@Samuel-yf6pl]

I spent this whole time seeing the vods and thinking Defeat the Refund was a game

[@maguszero]

It smells a bit like TB's ol' 'WTF is...', which is sorely lacking in the modern world.

[@nananamamana3591]

TB... Why, that's not a name I've heard in a long time! A long time... before the dark times. Before Microsoft-Acti-Blizzard-King...

[@PsychoEditor]

It's giant bomb quicklooks and I love ot

[@BlazeHedgehog]

This really highlights how culture bubbles work because a lot of the games Pat is describing is from the vantage point of neither of them having heard of something like Dicey Dungeons when I feel like everyone in multiple circles I'm a part of was raving about that game at launch years ago. This isn't a complaint, incidentally, just something weird and interesting.

[@shino933]

Man dicey dungeons is awesome! Haven't played it in years and I loved it back then

[@Renoistic]

Dicey Dungeon got me through Covid.

[@otonoko1001]

Pocket Mirror and Little Goody Two Shoes are both underrated, glad Pat liked the latter.

[@barryhanson1627]

Fun stream experience but I'm dreading if this format gets popular and people just stream games with full intent to refund. It's the "pay artists with _exposure"_ conversation with a different medium. I imagine would-be game creators getting discouraged because their passion project could get churned into "Refund Roulette 19 - game 3" by some goblin that trashes the game after ignoring the tutorial, mashing through dialogue, and calling the art style "bad" with no actual care or critique. Bad publicity is worse than no publicity if you give a damn about your work. I'm not accusing Pat of this, he's been a very gracious and kind slop-streamer. I'm speaking of aspiring DSPs that won't even pay to speed-bumble through someone's art for watch-time.

[@MattManDX1]

Pat straight up said he didn't refund most of the games though, the Defeat the Refund challenge was if the game could show how good it was within that possible Steam refund window. He didn't literally do it though (most of the time). Other streamers just need to copy that attitude as well

[@leithaziz2716]

@@MattManDX1 He didn't accuse Pat though. He just said that it could lead to a new trend of other people doing a simillar schtick but with less concern/self-regard for the people that make said game. Just be careful.

[@barryhanson1627]

I really like the ideal you put out; everyone would benefit from this challenge being done in good faith. Problem is, I doubt every single streamer will be as kind as Pat. Some will, but others won't unless forced. Maybe they'll keep a few to personally replay, but rejecting good games creates surprise and upset, which drives engagement. As long as the illusion of hope is there, people will watch. Gamifying refunds, combined with engagement-based revenue, incentivizes treating games like trash to use up and throw away. When a streamer looks back at the 100 bucks they've spent a week on one-off experiences, and see the refund buttons that they can click to instantly get it all back, they'll have second thoughts about actually letting that cash slip away.

[@TheDAKING549]

There’s 2 ways to look at this. One is “everybody is gonna try to refund games as soon as they are done on stream” which gives a bad faith statement to people (but isn’t entirely false) OR people will be more willing to try games they might otherwise not play due to either not being interested or worrying about how it will run on their pc and keep games they actually like. True this could be negative if taken at its worst value but I do feel giving people a reason to try games they might not try is generally better than worse for game devs.

[@Slimey0]

I understand the concerns but I think people are overselling pat's influence lmao

[@alephnole7009]

Hitting the slow motion headshots with the lever action rifle in Cultic is one of the best feeling things to pull off in FPS.

[@goodshotcam]

Woolie: Why's that? Pat and me: because it's FUCKING FUN

[@BonnieBoestar]

Still completely baffled at people who keep calling Po3's portion of Inscryption bad. Its literally just Hearthstone but infinitely more creative, the only "bad" game system in Inscryption is the magic deck and you're never FORCED to engage with it until it no longer really matters. I understand not liking Act 2 if you picked a deck that you turned out not to gel with, but I have no clue what Pat's complaints about Act 3 are supposed to be.

[@ElecTrishian924]

My personal complaint is that I bought the game thinking it was going to be about solving escape the room puzzles and playing a card game to escape a creepy serial killer in the woods, and then it turned into the meta "you're playing a haunted video game" thing that wasn't the game I understood it to be when I bought it

[@Mantis47]

Pat just doesn't like card games in which you have to build your deck. I mean he once went on his most Mind-Goblins tirade about how he hates making builds at all in games. Remember how he couldn't understand the concept of removing cards from your deck to keep it tight? "Why wouldn't I take every single card I find?" It's funny how he went "I'm learning that if a thing is not for me that doesn't mean it's bad" but then goes "Except for Inscryption"

[@ice_queen9]

it's like a much more wholesome version of that guy back in the day on twitch who would do a lot of coke and then open like a thousand dollars worth of csgo crates while talking to an escort edit: lol i remembered his name. Cro_

[@hosvet_animation]

If Robin Hood was the start of something sinister, Minerva Mink was the declaration of war.

[@TheDeliciousMystery]

Pat speedrunning his steam account getting locked out of refunds any% no glitches.

[@ThePhantomSquee]

Great to hear the after-the-fact thoughts on this, I didn't catch any of the streams but I'm planning to take a look when I can. It's a shame Pat didn't like Road 96, it's genuinely a fantastic game but it's definitely for a Certain Type Of Audience. I think not looking into it ahead of time may have bit him in the ass on that one, because most of the community tends to agree the Steam description isn't great. It's also the kind of game that shines most with multiple playthroughs so refund roulette is not an ideal format to experience it. Looking forward to getting more recommendations from these!

[@isaacsussman5632]

15:17 ok pats mistake here is developing the idea that no more heroes is about becoming a "cool assassin". It's about how much a horrible mistake becoming an assassin was and the sheer depravity of the concept. You're supposed to be bored by the jobs so the killing seems like more fun but the game then forces you to ask yourself "why am I enjoying slaughtering people? Why does a game about kiliing appeal to you? If real life had no consequences for doing this like a video game would you be doing other there because it's more fun than mowing lawns?" Travis doesn't have Dantes demon excuse he's a jackass who did this to himself. The rankings help Travis pretend the levels are exactly as game like as the player sees them and the jobs are an interruption to his fantasy. By the end of the game he's fully thrown his life into the miasma so the last minigame is literally throwing him over the edge. He's not a "cool assassin" all the cool assassins ended up dead or mutilated In that game. The amount of fun the minigames are is basically a morality Guage for Travis. In 3 he shifts to heroism so they become more arcade like. 2 making them actual nes minigames was a tremendous missing of the point and the fanbase hates em. I'm sorry this is completely off topic from the video (for the record thats an excellent stream format cudos), nmh is my favourite game and Pat and Woolie are literally so close to the crossing the line into the actual point that I'm losing it a little.

[@MattManDX1]

No, the core idea of No More Heroes 1 is Travis is horny and "cool assassins" get sex, that's the main motivator for him. Even after he learns his hot handler is actually is own sister that doesn't calm him down around her much. That whole "horrible mistake" part doesn't really come into effect until the second game after he lost his virginity and is stuck in that assassin job even though he accomplished his primary objective.

[@auig6590]

​@@MattManDX1Sylvia is his sister???

[@catantcha99]

​@@auig6590she is not

[@MattManDX1]

@@auig6590 That was kind of a joke at the end of the game, her big emotional reveal about it was straight up fast-forwarded through.

[@Samm815]

@@MattManDX1 You got Sylvia and Jean mixed up.

[@PregnantAdamSandler]

Im always surprised at streamers not realizing how willing people are to literally pay you to at least try something they like. People WILL drop money to see you play or watch their underrated favorite

[@Kango234]

Forget about streamers, I literally bought my brother an external hard drive so he could play FFXIV. That said it was my brother and not a stranger on the Internet so I guess it's not as crazy, but yes I agree that when you love a game you will go through a lot just so someone can just give it a chance. Edit: I just noticed you said "underrated".

[@Renoistic]

It's just that paying someone to play a game is pathetic. Doesn't make anyone a bad person, it's just sad. And I think a lot of people feel ambivalent about accepting that kind of money, considering that kind of person probably could use the money for something/anything better. I know I would personally feel bad about it. Then again, I'm not a streamer. Maybe you stop seeing the viewers as people and just a source of income.

[@stephengarforth2753]

hearing pat talk about him trying to change his habbit of "if i don't like a game that means its a bad game and the people who like are also bad"

[@sagecolvard9644]

This is such a genius idea for a livestream I'm amazed it hasn't been done before.

[@GamerSverige]

Reminds me of Funhaus Wheelhaus series

[@ThisAlbino]

I'm pretty sure it has. There are thousands of streamers out there.

[@InfamousResult]

To be fair, I think *most* people assumed that Steam would start biting back if they kept returning games; that, and at the very least, small streamers didn't want to make "I spend money on *several* games" a repeating gimmick. Pat at least makes the money back because of his audience size.

[@Kumo-s6f]

There's one Soulslike streamer named LilAggy that does "Can I beat the game in time to get a refund?" challenge runs, but that's about it from what I've seen. Someone playing random ass games just to see if they like them is new in my book.

[@Meta_Mage]

Hell yeah for Little Goody two shoes, my GOTY after baldurs gate 3 in 2023

[@blackcowboymusic]

5:10 the fact that Pat has figured out the most tax refundable process for gaming 😂

[@Abyss3223]

Little Goody Two Shoes is Cottagecore aesthetic with Lesbiancore topped up with 90's anime asthetic.

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

Thank you for another great video!

[@axongear9650]

Thanks to Pat I tried Midnight Suns again. And now I have played nothing else for 3 days straight

[@InfamousResult]

Beneath the bits of jank, there's a real gem of a game in it.

[@darkturnwabler]

Pat is being the evil alien from "I come in Peace "

[@strawberin0]

Why the hell are people being such crybabies about the fact that some audience members are donating money to a streamer they like? But instead of the streamer just going "thank you xxxballsdeep69xxx", he actually thanks you and you get to show him and the rest of the community a game you like, so you know, like 10 times more bang for your buck than a standard dono?

[@bodenking]

Hehe, Balls

[@1wayroad935]

Don't forget what community this is. We're the second best at everything, this includes being hypocrites and being wrong.

[@leithaziz2716]

Topics about donations aren't really as black or white as you might want them to be and often revolve around a case-by-case basis. Belittling others for not being in favour of it is rather weird, but the best course of action to take here for everyone is to mind eachother's business and respectfully agree to disagree.

[@ghostshrimp5006]

@@leithaziz2716 True, it is good to understand the people have different opinions. It’s also good to understand when someone’s wrong

[@fishbiter9409]

​@@bodenkingunderrated comment.

[@Samuel-yf6pl]

"I usually take ten minutes to set up video settings in Amy particular game." Yeah, usually...

[@illusion274]

I thought Steam stopped people from doing too many refunds? I refunded 2 games over the holidays and got an email from steam saying that i have been refunding too many games recently and they would eventually decline my requests for a refund so not sure how Pat would get around something like that.

[@werewolf873]

not sure why people are being pissbabies about this idea. The refund streams have been fantastic exposure for a bunch of games that i had never even heard of. i bought like 5 games that i would never have bothered looking at because of pat exposure, and wishlisted a dozen more.

[@yukiminsan]

paid in exposure

[@sapphomet.7777]

@@yukiminsanno he pays them with fucking money and then refunds the game if its Bad and mostly keeps them. Yall dont even watch the streams.

[@werewolf873]

@@yukiminsan No, paid in the money that i would never have spent if i wasn't exposed.

[@werewolf873]

@@yukiminsan Also, what exactly do you think a Let's Play is?

[@yukiminsan]

@@werewolf873 you won't make money from this gig but if a producer is in the crowd they might sign you to a label then you'll make a million bucks

[@Exarian]

25:00 So, Pat asks an interesting question here. The thing about furries is like, it's basically a fandom with no Official Content. Stuff like Robin Hood and Zootopia are undoubtedly very popular With furries, and are cultural touchstones among them, but are still generally seen as something from the outside. Nick Wilde isn't considered any more "legitimate" than a random person's sparkledog fursona. The heavy emphasis on personal expression sees to that.

[@otakon17]

12:00 he blueballed the ENTIRE STREAM of Pony Island he was literally at the climax and couldn't hold out for 10 more minutes and I MISSED IT THE NEXT DAY because of work! ARGH!

[@CelioHogane]

watch the VOD.

[@sapphomet.7777]

Brother he posts vods

[@otakon17]

@@sapphomet.7777 it's not the same as being there in the moment dammit! I could just look up a damn "Pony Island ending video" if I just wanted the footage of the end of the game. The INTERACTION, even minimal of being there is where the magic lies. it's like watching a recording of a fantastic musical compared to actually being in the seat in the theater.

[@smoe79]

I recommend Samurai Bringers, and he didnt play much, but he still seemed to recommend it to chat!

[@J3strX]

If ppl are mad at pat... Just don't give him money?

[@pickledparsleyparty]

Oh you can rest assured that Croteam climb fully head-first into their own ass for Talos Principle 2.

[@MarkGearRex]

I like this series because I added a bunch of games I've never even heard of to my wishlist to pick up later. Plus I now have 60 hours in Midnight Suns, which I completely wrote off when it first came out because I thought it was Marvel Xcom with cards which sounded awful to me. Thanks to Pat I know it's not like Xcom at all and it's not really a deckbuilding game either.

[@MightyPoggers]

Don’t worry woolie, I laughed at the Ashy Larry joke

[@MartiNDiklicH]

Pat saying people eating a pickle are the devil while I was eating a pickle got me choking. Also another boomer shooter I think is good Warhammer 40,000: Boltgun!

[@dawubber6676]

Boltgun is so good! I love that there's just a "For the Emperor!" button. Also has some of the best sound design for weapons I've heard in a FPS in a long time!

[@Wixvhen]

Give me that mischief makers any day of the week.

[@RGcrasyRG]

Could anyone explain how Pat is randomly choosing games? Did not see a wheel on the stream.

[@extantcadence2707]

That part of Inscryption isn't bad on purpose, it's unbalanced and exploitable on purpose. And it works and isn't bad. Pat just doesn't like it.

[@leithaziz2716]

Wait, are we talking about the 3rd act with the robot master? I liked that part. Maybe not as much as the 1st act, but it felt great to play and made me engaged again after being "conflicted" on the 2nd act.

[@hibiki8473]

Thank you for explaining to me what an opinion is very confused what that could be

[@Dogg-a-rama]

So is noone gonna tell Pat that Steam will actually punish you if you abuse the Steam refund process? Cause that is a thing Steam WILL do if they see you're constantly spamming it

[@petwisk2012]

What IS This Castlevania 64 inspired Indie? I need that in my veigns

[@splayr_]

no void stranger mention 🥺

[@blobberberry]

Dicey Dungeons is super fun at first! And remains that way for several hours... until a little after you get its Big Ending. After that it starts getting formulaic and predictable -- which in my opinion is antithetical to a good roguelike

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

like most things i agree with pat on pony island he really summed up how i feel about it in a minute even though i didnt know it was made by the same guy

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

29:40 me watching godzilla movies

[@wumbojet]

This is one of the most interesting and entertaining formats par could ever have thought of, it's great

[@Terramagu]

Taking side bets on how many weeks it takes before Steam bans his account

[@hibiki8473]

Pat refunding isn't at the level steam catch him he have to be doing multi account shit or returning like 80% of the games. Excluding moddern games coming out he buys he kept like 50% of the games which won't trigger it. Besides steam gives 3 warnings

[@ZKtheMAN]

Is the first N64-style game Pat's talking about Pseudoregalia? If it is and he's anything like me, he's not gonna be able to put it down.

[@date1570]

It was and he did like it.

[@ZKtheMAN]

@@date1570 Hell yeah.

[@justinscott7546]

Always enjoy hearing about finding new games that surprise you. The CV64 games aren't that bad Pat. Sure they have some issues (Believe me there is some and I love the games) but a good chunk of the issues got fixed in Legacy of Darkness. (Level design for the most part and combat got some good tweaks added)

[@Dae-D-Ellis]

I really didn't mind any of the different Parts of Inscryption, in fact I like the second phase's gameplay more than the first phase (Still loved it, just to be clear). Granted I LOVE card games and Pat doesn't

[@ZenobyGoat]

"who's gonna be holding it down for ugly ass triangles for the launch N64 titles?" iunno, Corn Kids 64?

[@add8402]

That whole inscryption argument seems to me that its promoting the thesis that story is more important than gameplay. From the way that the game presents it, you have 2 games in inscryption (not counting act 2 which is just kinda a weird combo of all systems). There's Leshy's game, where it has a cool aesthetic, established characters, and deep lore, but the game itself is poorly balanced. Leshy's version of inscryption is full of busted infinites and weird card combos that can just carry you through a whole run if you get them, but you still have fun because the atmosphere is great and all the content surrounding the game is enjoyable. Then there's Po3's game, it's significantly lacking in any sort of story or lore, you're just given map to explore and only told "fight the uberbots to win". Po3's version of inscryption is significantly harder than any other version because almost all of the busted interactions have been removed or their effectiveness has been reduced. It's a better balanced game, but not necessarily a better game overall. Both versions are alright games, but most of Po3's section feels like it was written as a call-out to wargamers for existing. It genuinely feels like that section was made worse on purpose just to promote the message that "focus on story good, focus on balance bad" which I think is a bit of a false dichotomy, different people like different things, but regardless, that's what we have.

[@thewholesomecultist6702]

Where can I watch this beat the refund stream? Can’t find it on yt or google

[@syrushbluhr]

Its currently on Pat stares at VOD channel on youtube

[@BasiliskEye84]

I picked up little goody two shoes after hearing about it from Pat. Is good game.

[@fenrir3097]

Alright you people explain to me what's so bad about this? He keeps the good games while he ones that he didn't enjoy gets refunded. Isn't that the purpose of the refund policy? Giving games without demos a way to try them before you buy.

[@AClockworkWizard]

The developers of the games he didn't like get shafted while he gets paid for ripping them off.

[@ghostshrimp5006]

@@AClockworkWizard You do realize that most of the time even if he doesn’t want to continue playing it, he does recommend the game to other people that might actually want to complete it. You are aware the reason why refunds exist, right?

[@SRN_RL]

If you refund too often, Steam Support explicitly tells you that this is not what the refund window is for. It is not meant to demo games, and they'll start denying you if you refund too often. You are meant to research the game before purchase to minimize the likelihood that you'll hate it.

[@randomd00d19]

There are so many fucking games out there that this might be a net positive to indies.

[@leithaziz2716]

@@SRN_RL Will that actually happen? I wasn't aware of that.

[@zedre7633]

How dare this person who plays games for people's enjoyment for free showcase a lot of games people haven't seen before and maybe not like a few. The gall of accepting completely consenting and voluntary monetary donations for it too!

[@1wayroad935]

Streamer Bad!

[@yyflame]

Does pat realize that Steam will shut down your ability to refund if you abuse the system right? Like I’m glad he’s having fun with it, but this can’t go on for much longer

[@MattManDX1]

He keeps most of them though, even if he doesn't like them. Only a few real bad stinkers got the actual refund.

[@ShayneRawls]

I liked the No More Heroes mini jobs though

[@TeapotBird]

Anto the Breach

[@Thtambitiousguy]

Genuinely curious. If Pat is giving an honest attempt at all the games why are people mad? I’ve seen some narratives of abusing the refund function but why would you keep something you didn’t enjoy? Lol

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

hmm. i see flickers of fair points even from the crazies. i think a possible analogy would be, redlining your car. yeah it's a car, car go vroom. but push it too far, eventually car go boom. personally i don't really care, but i *do* care about the incivility from some people, so i figured i'd throw that out there.

[@Mantis47]

I think it's just a game of telephone based on the name he chose. I'm pretty sure the people complaining haven't watched his streams, they've just seen the title "Beat the Refund" and have assumed, without context, that he's trying to beat games quick enough to refund them, which WOULD be scummy, but not what he's doing.

[@Triceritrozer]

Pat Redemption Arc???

[@slammermchammer]

Lets player/streamer plays game on stream People upset if he refunds the really bad ones. "No eat the shit and love it" Hilarious

[@Reionder]

Why does Pat hate when video games try to engage feelings aside from direct pleasure but also claim that video games are art? If you want them to just be entertainment, fine. But why do you call them "interactive video art" and dislike it when they are treated as such?

[@leithaziz2716]

How I usually see this happen with people is "if you do something I find boring, it will immediatly take me out of the experience and I will be less willing to listen to what you're trying to go for". This is a very muddy discussion where I don't really know *where* to draw the line, but I do agree that games can do more than simply entertain and are just as valid as art as other mediums. The hard part is finding the sweet spot where both the player and the developer are on the same wavelength. But different people have different levels of patience and willingness to meet the developer's vision on his own terms without just thinking "you're sniffing your own farts". Tldr, there is no right or wrong answer because the answer will differ heavily between people.

[@Reionder]

@@leithaziz2716 I'm okay with people claiming that games are only for entertainment, the same way I'm okay with people claiming games should be first and foremost a form of expression with authorial intent. What confuses me is when people motte-and-bailey about it and either say "it's just a game, don't take it seriously" or "video games are an art form" whenever they feel it's convenient for them

[@astrangehero]

@@Reionder Isn't it fair to say that video games are an artform, but some games don't need to be taken seriously? As is true with all creative mediums, some things are clearly just entertainment.

[@alt3r844]

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make. Pat likes Disco Elysium and the survival horror genre, both things that I would not really directly constitute as "direct pleasure" in a overall sense. There is also the context of when he brings up the term "Interactive video art" that the game in question is No More Heroes, a game where you are a sunglasses wearing assassin with a laser sword slashing up goofy anime characters, I don't think I really want to think about the soul crushing boring grind to make ends meet when I play a character action game. There isn't really a big contradiction in these 2 thoughts that you are trying to make (I want video game to make me feel good and video games are art) especially when there are as many games there are today that fill different niches, it's more of the thought if you want to convey certain emotions; it probably shouldn't stop the fun game play of your video game.

[@kyuboxincubox7556]

Probably because a lot of games are either bad at making those emotions or suffer from it. Like there's a million walking sim indie games with the same pixel stickman art style or whatever and no one cares at all about them. They're all like "boo hoo depression", who cares. A video game still needs to be fun at the end of the day, and a lot of games go "NO NO NO, THE FUN WILL BE READING MY TOO DEEP FOR YOU METAPHORS ABOUT DEPRESSION". And its not fun. So that makes it a bad game. A good game should be fun while still being able to make you feel whatever the devs wanted you to feel, and there's plenty of games out there that can do it well.

[@TheAstralFencer]

quick someone send Pat Beat Banger

[@raidjelloplays8259]

When we gonna get 90 mins on Library of Ruina.

[@thegloop5018]

whats with all the redditors doing the starving indie dev bit round here

[@moocowsauce]

It's a proven concept, another KZbinr (uhTrance) had an entire series averaging over a million views per video over a year ago. I don't get why people are getting so worked up over it because the amount of trash on steam outweight the 1 or 2 uncut gems.

[@Williby45]

What game is the anime girl in the thumbnail from?

[@Kango234]

Little Miss Goody Two Shoes

[@KurstKensei]

Wasnt there a youtuber a couple years back that did what Pat is doing by beating a Sonic game during the refund period and got a ton of flak for that?

[@sapphomet.7777]

If he did that was stupid because literally nothings wrong with it

[@Limit02]

I remember what your talking about, but that was that person beating the game and refunding it, Pats basically just using the steam return policy as a way of demoing games he might not have looked at otherwise without the worry of wasting money

[@Prof_Pangloss]

The guy got flak specifically because his tone was very "this game is beatable in under two hours and and therefore wasn't worth my money" so there was an article discussing this from a good-faith perspective of "hey maybe playing games with the explicit goal of refunding it is devaluing videogames as an art?" And the KZbinr in question went on to attack the author of this article, because of course he did.

[@leithaziz2716]

@@Prof_Pangloss They are rare exceptions, but you can have very short games that are still a blast. The multiplayer features do make this argument more complicated, but Titanfall 2's campaign is about 4 hours, and the Transformers Cybertron games are each around 5 hours with the singleplayer. They are also great games.

[@saccharine126]

@@Limit02 But the Steam Refund Policy isn't meant to be used as a demo system, is it?

[@Renoistic]

Pat's description of Talos Principle confuses me. This and the discourse around the Witness makes me believe that people literally make up shit about developers as an excuse to avoid anything that attempts something even remotely esoteric or philosophical. "Talking down to me". Really? KZbin is full of people smelling their own farts while accusing devs of doing the same. Just say you didn't vibe with it (I didn't finish Talos myself) without saying such nonsense. Edit: Then he calls Road 96 "pretentious". Of course he did.

[@catantcha99]

People did not make up the witness developer going on a misogynistic rant on twitter

[@Dantarn]

Buying a game for someone that already has a super high likely chance to get free games from the devs themselves anyway feels super weird

[@radiidii]

Man people ARE being whiny about the refund thing, I thought the comments were lying. It's like free advertising, isn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if each of the games that Pat bought, played for a few minutes, and instantly refunded got at least one purchase from someone who saw the stream and thought the game actually looked kinda cool. I mean, it's why I bought Void Stranger, so that's one off the list.

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

im still confused who we're talking about. i've seen a whopping maybe 2 people whining.

[@BreakdancePeach]

Honestly the title alone is too strong yet also eyebrow raising. Even though I KNOW Pat wouldn't go out of his way to screw every single indie dev by refunding all their games, even I had that moment where I first read the title and went "Wait, you don't mean...?" The format is more like 'Beat the Refund *_Timer',_* but new people might not get that impression.

[@hiroprotagonest]

Heyyy I also went through Pony Island, then when playing Inscryption got to the robot's part of the game aaaand stopped.

[@TacticalReaper56]

Exposing balls even in the later years. Imagine getting clowned on becasue you like a certian game that is panned as bad or ass to play.

[@trueaegisform6811]

Pat is based and should continue doing it, stay mad peps skill/money issue (plus not a single one probably watchrd those streams since majority of games are kept unless its stinkers like Road95)

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

who talks like that?

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

damn i finally agree with woolie i cant handle rts too

[@greatskullz6166]

Pat is running the "I wont finish this games on stream" to the max. And hey, whatever puts the money to feed that baby. it just won't be my money.

[@ghostshrimp5006]

Boy, i’m sure that’s gonna teach him a lesson. The very important lesson of not taking people like you seriously

[@leithaziz2716]

@@ghostshrimp5006 You know, at first, I was willing to consider your perspective, but now you're just starting to sound like someone who gets mad at people for having a different opinion. Not really sure what your goal here is at this point. Ever heard of staying neutral?

[@ghostshrimp5006]

@@leithaziz2716 I try to, to an extent. But when people with his opinion, who seem to completely forget that on his stream, not once did steam tell him to stop refunding because he’s doing it too much, he still within the lines of doing it properly. People are being unreasonable at this point. Edit: And you at least kept your comment, unlike the coward who just a few minutes ago had a similar response, but has now “mysteriously disappeared”, good on you for sticking to your guns 👍

[@ariloulei814]

Oh.... Little Goody Two Shoes is a Atelier Game in spirit but done better and being more bold about it's gayness and also add some horror elements. Interesting.

[@LockjawGael]

Refunding games you don't enjoy and beat in less than 2 hours is always morally acceptable. I'm reminded of WeegeeTheGod beating Sonic Forces fast enough to refund it. I googled it and one of the first results was a post on our subreddit full of people mad at him for doing it. There's even a post that says "Sadly I can see Pat doing this and gloating about it."

[@sapphomet.7777]

Sonic Forces was terrible and shouldve been refunded regardless. The idea it was “full price” and contained 120 minutes of content should make people angry. Those redditors were dumb and wrong then and theyll be dumb and wrong now.

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

i can agree with all of that, i probably wouldn't have used the phrase "morally correct". im just wondering why anyone would bother beating a game they don't enjoy? ah, before i hit the button i think i know what you meant, you're saying 2 different scenarios. in which case i fully agree with the first. the second one is trickier depending on a few factors.

[@muovikallo]

Bad games don't deserve money, simple

[@crimsonking440]

Itd be fucking hilarious to me if steam bans him or some shit over this

[@hibiki8473]

It takes a lot of refunding like nearly every game you buy, or account trading bullshit for steam to even put you on the radar and you get 3 warninfs

[@GiantEyedSquirrel]

As Pat was starting to describe Dicey Dungeons, I was was wondering why it sounded familiar and I realized that was the gameplay for the current Honkai Impact event. So I guess I drop $5 for the app now.

[@GameBooAdvancePlus]

Not a fan of streamers abusing the refund feature to get free ad revenue and donations for nothing in return. Some people even get their accounts refund-banned because steam explicitly states it's not a trial system. Granted some games are dogshit streamer bait that deserve to have that money withheld from greedy developer fingers so I guess it depends how aggressive pat peruses refunds that actually have effort put in but he personally doesn't like.

[@InwardSeaward]

Love Pat but buying games just to refund them is hella tacky especially since you’re getting content out of them and games are a tax write off for you

[@dannydumlet]

Pat what to know what part of Pony Island they made bad on purpose? The whole thing. Damn game is supposed to be one of those "meta you didn't follow the rules" games but has no way to progress if you follow them. It's like Stanley Parable if it was made by an idiot

[@blackdragoncyrus]

Like.

[@nothing6131]

Just for the record everyone, steam refunds are NOT for "trying out games" and if you treated them like Demo's and engaged with them the same way you engage with demos, you WILL be banned from refunding on Steam for doing so when/if they catch on. They will warn you about how fast you are aggressively buying and refunding games and after two warnings, the third will bar you from doing so, potentially even restricting your ability to purchase games at all from them. The refund system exists on Steam as a consumer protection to be used in good-faith, but you as a consumer are meant to be responsible with your purchases on the site. The option "I don't like it" exists because any reason effectively works within the 2hours/2weeks window for automation reasons, it's a reality that I will purchase at least a game or three in my life and will be required to refund it despite my attempt to be responsible with my purchases. But there is a difference between that and something that Pat's system needs to account for considering he plans on doing this more. If you are reaching a point where you are, say, purchasing multiple games a-week/per-month but also refunding a whole lot after engaging with them in short periods of time, and are, thus, treating them like a Demo-time-trial that requires some collateral on the table(your money that generally won't get refunded if you fail the 2hour/2week clause), then you are not materially different than a person engaging with the refund system in bad faith as a type of limited rental system and will be warned of it twice before being punished for, at that point, deliberately continuing to not change your aggressive purchasing and refunding strategies even when Steam warns you that you are misusing the system. But you know, it's fine so far, Pat seems to be enjoying most of the games that are sent his way and people are claiming that seeing him play the games convinced them to purchase for themselves, free advertisement and all that. But understanding the harmful externalities created when treating the refund system as something like rentals without calling them rentals is important, especially if he plans on continuing this.