Being Accurate and Charging Accordingly!

Being Accurate and Charging Accordingly! Let's make that "diagnostic job" just as profitable for a shop as that brake job!

[@SchrodingersBox]

Paul you will be happy to know that since these videos and our discussion last month, I have since retracted my free diagnosis policy. The amazing thing is that almost none of my customers have objected to it. In fact they were more like “it’s about time”. I don’t think I will lose any customers from adapting this, and I definitely gained income.

[@ScannerDanner]

Awesome Matt!

[@frankjohn4302]

Such a wonderful feeling when you diagnose and fix it right the first time.Just gotta think about all your effort,equipment,experience and charge accordinly.Thanks DANNER

[@Tech-28]

I just recently billed 15 hours diag on an intermittent CAN bus failure that ended up being poor terminal tension in the ABS star connector, the customer was actually happy that it didn’t need “another module” after coming from a few other shops lol! Gave him a nice 4 page write up with pictures, schematics, and all of my test measurements and findings. Ended up replacing a faulty PDC and repaired some other broken wires in 2 separate locations along the way. Although it was a lot of time it was fix right and fixed the first time 💪

[@scientist100]

2k in diag fee, wow. Good job.

[@JimmyMakingitwork]

Glad to see a customer who realizes he would have spent thousands more and never properly repaired his vehicle staying with chain or coupon repair style shops. Good for you, nice work!

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

i am glad you put out their the time it took for that correct repair. this is what people should see on these diag channels not just they were able to fix it after many shops, but the real time it took. they talk about billing accordingly, but if the customers are really to be educated they need to see how much time it really took. its up to these utubers to show this, i have asked several to tell this at the end of each diag,but they want. tech-28 tell me if this would be a help or am i stupid to ask this

[@Tech-28]

@@user-te3pn4pb4u I think it would be very beneficial to everyone if real life diagnostic times were listed by other technicians and build sort of a real time reference library as some of these issues on these vehicles can sometimes take multiple hours to not only understand system theory and operation but to then also properly and successfully test these circuits and components to be absolutely sure that the diagnosis is accurate. I feel as tho there’s to much R+R shotgun diag going on in the world right now and also with the day and age we are in with the internet people (including technicians) are googling fault codes and replacing parts in hopes that it fixes the issue. These types of repairs performed in large numbers compared to actual real diagnostic processes is skewing the public’s interpretation of what really needs to be done in the shop. However I understand some technicians won’t want to share diagnostic times for whatever reason and that’s totally fine as well, that is there personal opinion.

[@joekuntzman4016]

So much depends on the customer. It comes down to what they are willing to pay for an actual repair. I hate to say it, but maybe the best customers are ones who have reached the end of their patience with attempted repairs. The ones who are ready to pay whatever is necessary. Good idea to provide the documentation by the way.

[@SAAutoRepair]

First, the difference between "free estimates" and "diagnostic charges" needs to be explained better to the customer. Second, the concept that it's not uncommon for the repair to take significantly less time than the diagnosis is why it's billed separately and need to be explained. Honesty and accuracy is paramount. $1800 to guess at plugs, coils and injectors or $400 for a proper diagnosis and $100 for the one failed coil? Either way gets the job done, but the latter way gets frowned upon. Why? Because we need to educate (owners, techs and customers).

[@GL0697]

The difference between estimate and quote is a quote should not change in price, where as an estimate will more than likely change in price. A Diagnostic fee should not be incorporated in labor time, it's a separate time to figure out what's wrong with a client's issue. If we have three fault codes when the mil is on that could be three separate issues. Same as the mil is on, abs light on, and traction light is on, this could be all related (Toyota/Lexus) or not customers need to be informed by service advisors/managers, shop owners, and technicians.

[@SAAutoRepair]

@GL0697 Agreed. I was pointing out the issue where customers feel that "free estimate" is the same as " free diagnosis.". Much like the shops that think it's a good practice to wash the diag into the labor charge.

[@GL0697]

@@SAAutoRepair You're right. I just think we need to get the word free out of our automotive language. I charge a minimum of .25 x shop labor rate to do anything. I let clients know this upfront, if I decide to give the service away then I was a good guy that day. We need to spend more time explaining to consumers why things are not free.

[@StationRussification]

Pretty much any failed coil falls under the basic 1 hr diagnostic less pulling most hard parts like a manifold BUT I get what U R saying. In my book extensive diagnostic time incorporates various factors, charging for my time to learn an adaptive detail, flow chart or wire diagram is rare BUT when merited they get charged.

[@GL0697]

@@StationRussification The misfire could be one or two hours of diagnostic time. If you have to remove something to aid in diagnosis it's a separate labor time. Remember at every stopping point we should be communicating with customers and documenting work orders properly. If they say yes keep going, if they say no button it up and bring me my money.

[@cdsfleetrepairs]

Diagnostics vs Analysis, I never tell a customer I can diagnose there concern until a proper analysis has been performed I might be wrong in my understanding but diagnostic means, coming to an end result. I have no clue what the end result is until a proper analysis has been done and I charge for that time, I realize that both words are similar but I believe they are different, just an opinion. Thanks Paul for what you've been doing please keep the lessons coming.

[@fixthisone]

As someone in the repair field but on the electronics/cell phone/data recovery side I know where you’re coming from. We used to offer free diagnostics but sometimes the customer would just back out and our time would never be compensated. What we started doing is charging a diagnostic fee and then if customer chooses to go forward with the repairs we will credit that fee on the final price. This way we get paid regardless and the difference isn’t much of a loss.

[@sumduma55]

The dealership i take my car to does that. They charge a technician diagnostic fee for something outside of warranty but that fee is applied directly to the fix.

[@nservice1625]

So if diag took 1.5hr, but repair takes .4, how does that work out?

[@laddie5133]

It a buy throw away society unless u can afford a repair yes right in what u say but manufactures just like apple iCloud and car with security gateway modules u understand how the world's going

[@fixthisone]

@@nservice1625 you just price accordingly. Could be different for the automotive world, as our industry doesn’t charge per hour but rather the specific repair

[@nservice1625]

@@fixthisone I posted mostly a rhetorical question. I agree the way your industry does thing is correct. In the automotive industry, there is a huge drive to give away diagnostics. It has drug the entire industry down. I spend most of my day diagnosing, and alot of the time, the repair takes less time than the diag did.

[@IAMNOSLEEP]

Diagnosis accuracy is critical for reduced costs of automotive electrical & mechanical failures. Pay a little extra now for proper diagnosis or pay much, much more later. Thanks for sharing Paul. Cheers.

[@stevenwashington9947]

As the lead in an independent truck shop, good and accurate diag on multiple makes, models, and model years can be difficult at best sometimes. When every manufacturer has proprietary software (rightfully so when it comes to programming), it gets really expensive to purchase and renew all of them. What makes it even harder is that most of the systems on trucks today aren’t made by the OEM’s. For example, the truck may be a Peterbilt but it may have a Cummins engine, Eaton or Allison transmission, Bendix or Wabco ABS system, and so on. All of them have different software, and none of them allow aftermarket software full access to at least do all of the bi-directional testing. I’m a big supporter of Right to Repair for this reason. I understand warranty and programming being limited to dealers, but full access to everything else would go a long way in helping those like us to affect proper diag and repair without the use of the parts cannon.

[@adanFarias-xs5vg]

Thank You for sharing KZbin knowledge greetings forma tijuana be well blessings danner

[@davemall1]

This sounds like premium content.

[@user-yl5us4ce4f]

This is so very much true Paul. The customer only want to pay for results not time and effort it takes to get the job right

[@jdtractorman7445]

I watched one of the independent shops that post on here regularly the other day. He had to get out wiring diagrams and form an approach to fix the problem. One of the commenters said that they don't think it's right that they have to pay to "educate" them on how to repair their vehicles. Apparently, this same individual thinks all cars have the same exact wiring harnesses, same exact connector pinouts, same exact wire locations in the connector, so forth and so on. It's beyond ridiculous that some people think that way. These same people won't want to fix their brakes but will go out and buy 5k worth of oversized, fat tires and fancy chrome wheels.

[@davidbell4913]

Some customers can't be pleased, sometimes it pays to pass the job on. Maybe the next customer will be appreciative one.

[@sumduma55]

Sounds like you have a problem with customers. Do you want to pay your surgeon to learn how to do your double bypass after you show up with a problem? There is quite a bit of overlap in thought processing there.

[@jdtractorman7445]

Your comparing apples and oranges. @@sumduma55

[@theadventuresofjavier8698]

Preach it brother Paul❤

[@farmermiyagi1338]

When was the last time you went to the Dr and got tests run for free? SD has converted me. That and the fact that I am constantly getting cars from other shops anymore, that they cannot diagnose. This ain't yer Daddy's Chevrolet. This is rocket science!! XD

[@gplusgplus2286]

Both as a customer and a DIY who diagnosed and fixed myself an overheating problem in my car that was there for 13+ years, you are absolutely right. The industry must fix itself, charge right, pay techs right and name and shame the bad apples. You can imagine the money I've spent to "fix" my problem all these years.

[@scottgilliam7524]

It's not only our time we have invested in its also the tool's it takes to do the job and make sure we're right when we make a call on a certain module or vibration the costumer is complaining about and good diagnostic tools aren't cheap. I totally agree we must start charging appropriately. Thank you for all you do for our industry.

[@jonk6137]

Appreciate guys like you and your brother Scott

[@whitetiger8652]

Thanks Paul, you and your brother are the best of best. I don't have as much free time anymore for viewing videos due to work but I'm still here and a subscriber.

[@timothyyearwood1732]

Trouble shooting is what leads to pin point the fault half the job is done!You are right on point.

[@Pablo_Automotive]

Great words Paul.

[@davidostring1289]

I thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[@briandish1787]

Paul what you are talking about is the best way. The problem I have found is to find a business that truly does this, when you find one you have done you homework. the problem is most people just want it fix ASAP and some shops (most) just want to make $$ as fast as possible and figure that there are lots of people with Auto's and most will have a problem.

[@HouseCallAutoRepair]

With what we spend on Tools, Scan tools, probes, sensors, data subscriptions and knowledge... We need to do a lot on our part to stay on top of it, but it's a unique expertise niche that has unique expertise value.

[@jpjautotech7622]

I’ve watched your other videos over the past few weeks about this general topic, and here’s my view. There are two types of shop owners, those who actually care about their customers and want to do things the right way, and those who only care about maximizing profits, and will do anything to achieve that goal. Unfortunately, I suspect that the majority of shop owners are in the latter category. And the reality is, that for them, guessing and parts changing in an attempt to fix the problem is much easier and more profitable than proper diagnosis and fixing it right the first time. Because let’s face it, every time a part is replaced, they make money. The more parts they replace, the more profit. So essentially, the parts shotgunning method is very profitable. What baffles me is why so many customers end up paying small fortunes at shops like those that try one part after another in an attempt to fix the problem. Obviously, at some point, the customer has had enough and moves on. So ultimately, for the good shop owners that want to do it the right way with proper diagnosis, it comes down to marketing. They have to advertise that yes, you will pay a diagnostic fee, but when we conclude the diagnosis and say a part has to be replaced, it’s guaranteed to be correct, or you will be refunded or credited for the part and labor until we find the real cause of the problem. They have to set a new standard for customer expectations. If enough of the good shops set a standard like this, it will start to change things for the better, because customers will come to expect only paying for parts that were actually bad.

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

i totally agree with that statement

[@griceldaochoa9258]

HI . THANK YOU FOR YOUR GOOD WISHES AND POSITIVE FEELINGS TO ALL.

[@ch-tr7uj]

100% agree. As a tech and shop owner we made the change to charging for testing, when properly explained to the customer what the process is and equipment we use we hardly get push back. Also lover you premium site

[@charlesbooth5355]

80% of cars in UK that are in scrap yards for electrical faults and customer/owner has spent a fortune chasing fault to the point it was cheaper to get a new car... eg I got a saab 93 for nothing ... customer tried 5 workshops and could not get it to work... I fixed it for £10. ran it for 2 years no faults car perfect. I have done this with countless cars.. educating techs and customers is key. Being honest and open is also best way to go... customers do not trust mechanics in general. I have built a good reputation but its taken over 20 years

[@chrism5433]

As i mechanic (tech) .even side jobs i charge for diag work more than ever . When diagnosed and repair cost is figured out , depending on the work required i usually work it out with the customer so we are all happy . Good work brings more happy customers lol. 🍺🍺

[@smms5056]

Thanks Buddy 👍

[@DJ-tn7vj]

I believe communication is the key to know how to charge for diagnosing

[@JimmyMakingitwork]

Very true! Sadly we live in a time when the Auto parts stores will "Scan your vehicle for free." I actually had a local parts store manager tell me he wishes corporate didn't force them to do it because they end up paying for so many parts when they don't repair the "code." We can do better. We certainly need to educate the customer and many shops of the value of diagnosis. It should never be free, it's the most valuable service we offer.

[@mph5896]

Auto parts corporations know exactly what they are doing. Sell parts and make $. Free code scans sells more parts.

[@cullenmiller8170]

It’s a problem in all trades where people don’t want to pay for proper work done. I saw it in trucking as well. The lobbyist spent lots of money to keep it classified as an unskilled trade. The average over the road driver works 70 hrs a week without overtime pay. You only get paid mileage and even there a lot of carriers only pay zip code to zip code. Sitting at a dock is for a lot of drivers unpaid time. Unfortunately, everything has come down to being as cheap as possible in this country. Quality, good service and on time is being sacrificed for cheap.

[@iamher6422]

Rather than ask someone for diagnostic help, I invested in a Launch x-431 pro. I’ve been teaching myself how to use it. I’m just in the process of learning how to put it to work for me. How to make money with it. It’s difficult 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@secretsquirrel9722]

I'm 100% on board for evolution of the industry but I would have to say. In reality there is a massive grey area. You tend to talk about someone swapping parts off codes and someone nailing diag 99 jobs out of 100. But no one goes from one to the other like a switch. Obviously, if you get it completely wrong or just plain guess. You should show some honour towards the customer. BUT, If you don't charge while your doing your best in an honest effort. On the path to improvement. What's you suggestion to make a living. You either stay making bulllk money on brakes and ball joints or there needs to be some middle ground while building a skill set. This was a huge thing for me. As a tech, even when I made master after 4 solid days of testing. On my own with 2 oracle level techs standing over me watching every move and asking questions throughout the testing. I still had imposter syndrome in the shop. Waiting for someone to tap me on the shoulder to tell me that they know my secret. That I had no idea what I was doing. The only thing that ever solved that for me was becoming the guy running the whole show. You quickly become aware of the actual level I was actually at compared to the shop. Specifically being as good or better than the people you thought way above you while I was on the flaw. You see just how much they stuff up or cover their weaknesses with confidence or volume. I'm in the same position now. I left the industry because I could earn way more money a week for 10 hours less work. At a ridiculously easy job. But I'm looking at coming back in diagnostics because I know I can make way more money again. I've been working hard to acquire the testing equipment and up my diag skill. But there will be a period of adjustment and learning required to make the jump back. How am I supposed to structure charging if I'm feeling confident in my ability but I can't honestly guarantee a top line hit rate? It takes time, familiarity(experience) and more hands on learning to get to that point.

[@DependableAutoTruck]

the repair industry is getting harder especially for us older mechanics i am 67 started learning a little over a year ago to use scopes but at my age and health problems its hard to afford the tools needed i have managed to buy most but the schooling is out of my reach in south east alabama have wanted to get your book but haven't been able to do so as of yet but hopefully health gets better can afford soon and hopefully that will open a new world about testing and learn a lot how to better diag the newer stuff with the information i understand is contained in your book

[@wejaith3]

Loved the podcast episode on remarkable results radio.

[@michaellindsay607]

Out of Jamaica 200% rite sir as ann Auto Tech

[@user-yd7kz3mz3u]

Многие люди не понимают что заплатив за правильную диагностику они сохраняют ресурс деталей, которые в последствии могут поламатся из за находящейся неисправности. Что потом выходит на много дороже покупка этих новых деталей, чем стоимость которую владелец заплатит диагносту за его труд который найдет эту неисправность 😊

[@shawnturney1529]

The cost of energy ,gas , food ,construction supplies and everything else is going up . Auto repair costs have to go up too

[@Mike-yq7ce]

I agree our industry doesn't bill correctly for "diagnostics". I think we as an industry should remove free from our vocabulary in general. I also think we need to make an improvement with service advisors and some customers on their communication of the concern. An accurate diagnosis starts with the technician receiving an accurate description of the concern. Some of what the customer thinks are inaccuracies are a result of poor communication of the concern from the start (wrong problem gets accurately diagnosed and fixed).

[@jimyep9971]

As someone who started in mid 70's . Being honest n fixing it right the first time. Has many many benfits, so many customers by word of mouth. Ask me how i know. been there done it. times have changed more to it now BUT you have too diag it right n charge.

[@nickayivor8432]

Enjoy your weekend KNOWLEDGEABLE

[@renefuller9241]

One thing Customers, and prospective customers do not realize when they complain about the economy, is that we the technicians and the shops live in that economy as well. I'm in the electronics field, not in the mechanical field but the issue is exactly the same. We have to live as well, pay mortgage, food etc. The issue we have is some shops charging the customer a ridiculous amount of money just to throw parts at the problem. Some shops, not all. But the ones that do charge to much ruin the whole pricing structure for everyone else. The "drive your car onto the shop floor, pay a grand" shops. Prices go up from there.

[@stormyyoung6344]

I work at a body shop so I can only put on parts that the insurance company approve I tell them it needs a axle they say no we are going to use the old one then when I drive it axle noise but insurance company says let's see the Customer notices it, So sometimes technicians are just put in weird positions but charge for it when you can

[@s.j.5850]

Ok ScannerDanner, what about shops that charge for replacing parts that don't solve the problem/defect? I see & hear about that way too often. Why should I pay someone for "fixing" something that wasn't defective in the first place? I got into working on cars because I couldn't trust the mechanics in my area. Now that I know a lot more about automotive systems (community college, books, etc.) I feel for all those customers that take their cars to shops that charge them for NOT FIXING the problem! I don't even see how that's legal.

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

i know what your saying. its a problem. he spoke on not liking it when he got something wrong, most of us that are on top of diag work can still struggle and not get to a answer. and these guys are not jumping into hardly any of the latest tech on cars wright now or what its going to cost us in equipment to handle it. not seeing him jump on the adas system which is a very expensive investment. dont know where all this insanity is going to end.

[@YotaGuy_Kyle]

I specialize only with Toyota, A lot of the time, I'm selling my Diagnostic time on both sides of the transaction. If addition time is needed, I sell the tear down time, If there's more checks, I Roll it into the cost of the repair on the back end. Clocking in and out on a ticket honestly will help justify your Time requested, as well as good customer communication.

[@crasher88]

One item about profitability you didn't mention is using quality parts. If you charge for diagnostic and charg for the part and labor for the part to be installed, but end up putting some Doorman part or some aftermarket junk on the car that brakes 3 months down the road and have to warranty the job. Ever penny you made off that job just went down the drain. Profitability is a long term metric that is measured on a yearly basis not a daily one.

[@alexisjohnson9608]

Brother Paul you're just telling it like it is those are simply the facts the reality of the situation people know the old saying you get what you pay for a customer should want the best possible and most accurate service on their vehicle, it's true a technician should always take pride in their work no matter if it's just putting on some brakes, doing a tune-up or actually performing a diagnostic test to find a problem with a vehicle and actually fixing it without just throwing Parts at it over and over. It's a sense of accomplishment and it's true techs should be paid accordingly especially if they're good at their job good technicians that accurately repair cars bring a lot of business into the shops and that's how those shops get the name of being a GOOD SHOP to take your car to. I'm no longer working professionally in the shop I'm just a DIY guy on my vehicles and friends and family and yeah sometimes you run into situations where people really don't want to pay the cost of the repairs a lot of people just don't know or understand the work the labor that goes into doing some repairs on vehicles trying to find problems and fix them accurately and some people are just fickle they'll pay for other things they want at Walmart or on Amazon but some of them have a problem with paying the mechanic for accurately repairing their car they need to drive to work and two stores.. the men and women in the automotive field definitely should be compensated correctly for their good work though. brother Paul I'm going to look for you this coming Sunday morning at the church you invited me to the one I went to the men's group with you back in the day just need to fellowship with you brother so I hope you're able to make it and as always keep up the good work STAY STRONG 💪 man and keep sharing that knowledge it's greatly appreciated....

[@ScannerDanner]

We've been going here (Tov Church) 661 Millers Run Rd, Cuddy, PA 15031 9am and 11am services. We usually go to the 11am Hope to see you there!

[@alexisjohnson9608]

Ok got it thank you so much brother

[@chekelley6861]

So a guy I know has a very successful shop. Here is how he does it: Car comes in with brake noise (just a random example), he simply quotes the entire brake system R&R, pads, rotors, calipers, fluid flush bolts nuts, Anything that could possibly cause the problem. Obviously pretty expensive quote, right? The customer can do two things, decline the job, to which the owner basically just says “we don’t want those customers anyway”. Or, surprisingly common, they agree to the repairs. At that point, the tech actually digs in and finds what actually needs fixed. Almost always it’s much less expensive than the original quote, so the shop owner calls the customer and says “hey, I have great news, we ended up saving you money!” His customers LOVE him. He can’t beat people off with a stick. The system pretty much eliminates all the headaches with diagnostics and “oh, we found more things wrong and it’s gonna cost you xyz more!” Plus, he only deals with people who can and will pay for their cars to be fixed!

[@mph5896]

Well, you used brakes as an example. Unfortunately its not really possible to give an accurate quote unless you pull it all apart. Make sure the calipers push back, make sure the slide pins aren't stuck, exc. Not very many shops are pulling off a caliper (pulling components apart) for an estimate.

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

thats the key, find the customers who are wealthy enough to pay, but on the flip side the poor customer is screwed . so i assume he has a great location where people have money. thats when you can put your price up their

[@mph5896]

@@user-te3pn4pb4u There are plenty of tiers of auto repair that fit peoples budget. High end shop like mentioned in first comment. Guy gets it done the first time at no expense spared. 2nd shop may call you back when the caliper is stuck. all the way down to a guy going to the u pull and getting used brake pads and getting 1 used rotor🤣

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

so true@@mph5896

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

i agree with tier part, but whos making the most money the top end guy or the one going to pull the part guy, that guy is gona be at the bottom of the chain and that does not get into the diag part of the business where that customer that is not so wealthy cant afford the top end guy, but this is a totally different subject matter. i will just leave it at this , used to be a simple good used car was ok to buy and maintain, so even the the lower income guy could keep it going, but those days are gone. so the pull apart guy is going to have to hack the car just to keep it on the road

[@jasonsanchez3441]

100%. We have techs that don't care if it's right or not. And when I charge for my time because I'm actually testing what I need to my time gets cut ever single time

[@ScannerDanner]

The diagnostic tech shouldn't have to do brake and suspension work to even out his time. It's ridiculous! It is literally the most advanced task and requires a certain mindset to tackle it and our field pays us pennies for it in comparison to other jobs! It's time for this to change. The diag guy should be at 100k+ while only working 40 hours a week

[@jasonsanchez3441]

I agree. The sad truth is I make the same per hr and the parts replacer and he always makes more hrs. Not totally complaining I make good money but it gets to me sometimes

[@user-sd5wg1vg4e]

Being capable, means getting the worst work. Whether it is deep diag, broken/rotted fasteners, oddball/exotic vehicles. I take a beating on this stuff. Because I can pull it off. A side hustle involving something that terrifies the average tech is my next move.

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

i agree with that, but is it in Newyork, California or in the country or what state, that would play into that pay i think. this is a tuff subject matter. i know what you are trying to do and say. most of us love fixing the unfixable, this i think is gona be a long ordeal and will take a lot of effort. i will be watching to see if you make any headway. much love for trying@@ScannerDanner

[@tommythompson3487]

I'm on my third year as a shop owner and I did fall into the no charging for diagnosis and after my second year I seen your videos and everyone comments and made the change I had couple customers complaine. But after showing them the steps and there car was fixed they kinda understood. Thank you Dan for sharing your knowledge.

[@comradearms1381]

Sir I am your big fan

[@paulamccomb9511]

The problem is there are not many techs good at diagnosing . It should be if a problem is diagnosed and the repairs made but the original problem remains , the shop should eat the cost.

[@miltonmartinez6698]

What’s up Paul does your online course teach all the fundamentals diagnostics or is it all advanced stuff ?

[@a2zcarservice]

sir big fan of you from INDIA

[@dkeny55]

The customers needs to know its more like medicine. It sometimes takes many diagnostic tests to arrive at the answer. You dont just hook up a scanner and it tells you whats wrong!

[@labrat6910]

The struggle is real when dealing with some customers..They dont like to pay even when you diagnose correctly and actually save them money that they would have paid to a trial and error parts fitter...

[@nancylewis7142]

Perfect.

[@adanFarias-xs5vg]

Paul danner thank

[@happygarage6310]

No other industry drops the testing charge like the automotive industry. I dare anyone to ask their plumber, electrician, doctor to waive the testing/diag charge. Let's face it there are "technicians" who don't to the testing, they need to be confronted, it's always that small group that makes it difficult for things to improve. This industry is constantly changing, the cars we look at everyday aren't getting older, it's what I love about being a tech, as a collective we can cause some much needed changes to improve the pay disparity, and also better serve the customers and communities where we live.

[@johnstamm6035]

Same customers don't complain when the doctor sends you two or three places for Diagnostics

[@Abelcapo]

Hi SD local champion here, I think you are right but not everyone will understand you if they’re not in your shoes,let’s leave the car owners out of this the owner will even be happy to go free of charge,let talk about the colleagues in the field which are not investing in tools and are not even ready to make proper diagnostic when a mechanic colleague thinks that scanning and all diagnostic equipment is part of our working tools as if it’s pliers and we shouldn’t charge for it what do you expect the client to say

[@ScannerDanner]

Many clients do understand, because the parts swapping costs have been experienced many times! When I had an issue with my 8.3 Cummins CAPs injection system, I absolutely refused to take it to someone. Why? Because a quick Google search showed people getting charged $8000 for a new CAPs injection system and it wasn't fixing the issue! That's an $8000 guess and it happened to countless people! If you're going to charge someone $8000 for a part (part alone was $5700 and was about 10 hours of labor to change) you better be prepared to guarantee that call. Find me a shop that does that and I'd have no problem handing them that money. That's the difference. Stand behind your work and be accurate and the rest will take care of itself. BTW my issue with my RV was alge in the inlet screen of the transfer pump. It was a no part needed fix!! I spent the time and learned the system and tested it myself. A garage could have easily charged $1000 for that diag time and I'd have been happy to pay it.

[@jorgeordonezautomotriz]

It's challenging for everybody but I also think is the right way. Technicians, repair shops and customers need to value each other in order to make this work for all of us. We as a shop expect a 20% net profit but meet that expectation with diagnostics only I think it's impossible, that's why the value of the diagnostics in most of the times are in the repairs (Parts+labor) recommendations because we only have 40 hours a week for each tecnician and we expect a 40 hours of productivity per technician, doing diagnostics, where you only can charge for labor and for the time spent it's just impossible to get that productivity and the 20% net profit. But, at the same time I also value quality and precision and still trying to make this work. I hope it will!

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

yep i always thought a basic auto repair business would be the best money maker and i saw a shop just open up with that name ( basic auto repair) . most mechanics can do this work and they are doing well. brakes ,front end work, cv shafts etc are easy and fast. and you dont have to have hi end electronic equipment and all that time chasing these electrical issues

[@charlesswann6388]

When you go to the doctor, you pay in advance for testing. The doctor may not even find anything wrong, but as you leave, you say thank you, Dr.

[@BehindTheCounter_TFSO]

What I've observed is that many shop owners spend a significant amount of time contacting multiple parts suppliers in their local area, all in an attempt to find the cheapest part. Instead of wondering whether to replace it with the original equipment or order an aftermarket part. This is where they often neglecting the strategic planning and development aspects of their business. Our state was one of the first to implement both a safety and emissions program. Those who come to our state for employment or do business often lack the formal training or necessary skills required for emissions and safety compliance. For those who prefer KZbin tutorials over class room training, I playfully dub them the "KZbin Certified Automotive Gurus. Don't get me wrong; there's valuable information on KZbin. However, it's essential to consider the source of the content.

[@DeepSouthBuilder]

The industry broke itself as soon as chain oil shops and parts stores started giving those free code scan printouts. Most consumers will NEVER know the difference between that and real diagnostics. That will never change.

[@tomtke7351]

Alternately: If a customer wants to DIY the work but not the diagnosis (s)he will be happy to pay for accurate diagnosis. After watching hours of car repair videos I now realize that there's so many DIFFERENT systems in today's cars that diagnosis REQUIRES study of system operations. There's common core knowledge and there's specific 'peculiarities' that the tech must become familiar with BEFORE diagnosing. Restated: today's cars are more different than they are same. Each troubleshoot generally requires some LEARNING first.

[@dandearman2871]

My son just had a bout with the Jeep dealer and his Jeep Renegade. The money light was on and also his battery light and a light for his 4-wheel drive. It was in and out of the repair shop 4 or 5 times over a month and a half to the tune of over $2500.00 and three ECMs. Makes me wonder about their mechanics they have doing the work. He has the Jeep back home now and so far it seems to be ok, knock on wood. Do you have a list of technicians you recommend to people?

[@ScannerDanner]

I do! I have a growing list of shops who are using SD Premium for training for their technicians. Those shops are listed on my website under the shop directory tab www.scannerdanner.com/find-sd-shops.html Hope you find one in your area and if not, keep checking back as more and more are signing up!

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

keep your eye on that dealer ,even if they are not up to speed ill bet they will stay in business regardless. ive been watching my local dealers and they do lots of parts canon shooting but they are still kicking and making money

[@mph5896]

So, what were the problems with the jeep? 2-3 different issues or were they all related?

[@nservice1625]

It's a jeep, it very well could have been 3 defective parts. Chryslers quality control is crap. I put a BCM in a caravan last year, the replacement failed a week later. I thought for sure I screwed up on diag. Nope defective factory reman BCM. I replaced it, didn't even get it out of my stall before a different problem popped up relating to the BCM. I called the dealer and they sent me another. No questions asked. I asked them what the hell is up with these reman units. They told me they have had several out of the box failures. Thanks Chysler.

[@ScannerDanner]

​@@nservice1625that crap is everywhere now! (Parts bad right out of the box)

[@peanutbutterisfu]

It’s definitely a problem in all different angles. Like a vehicle comes in with lean codes and after the repair is done most techs don’t even check the fuel trims after the repair which is so simple and avoids comebacks imagine being that customer.

[@ScannerDanner]

100%

[@StationRussification]

In the early 1980's the Smog Check Program took hold & the battle was customers just want to pass an inspection, shop owners want the customer happy & both pressured mechanics to ignore the laws in favor of their wants

[@normangallant9879]

True to that

[@howlinhog]

I've worked in a lot of shops over the years, and while I have been around a few parts changers, they were never respected, ostracized even. The one hour diagnosis payment working flat rate is in the long run easy money. Are there times when it took longer? Oh yeah, plenty. But in general, it is doable to make a good living. If a tech can't make 60 hours in a 40 hour week, it's probably because of lacking in skill. If you stick with it you'll gain those skills. I agree that we should be getting paid for our time doing diagnostics but I also believe humility in regard to charging customers will push you to be better and not be charging for mistakes.

[@mikem5475]

flat rate plebian spotted, probably off to butcher something

[@wrightsrrt871]

Your right brother we have to take pride in what we do or we'll loose the American way like we already are since we already live in the throw away generation where theyjust throw stuff away and buy new just cause they dont want to take the time to fix it anymore!! It's sad were becoming this wayas an country in whole.

[@StationRussification]

I wish U were around when these problems starting rearing their ugly head back in my day. I stood on the same soap box as U R now but it fell on def ears mostly... keep up the good fight Mr. Danner

[@1MiketheMechanic]

Maybe we need to start listing it on the work orders as "testing time" instead of "diagnostic time" to change the industry?

[@ScannerDanner]

That's part of it!

[@detailedautodiagnostics]

YES!!!!!

[@Stratemannauto]

I love post ASOG SD 😅

[@ScannerDanner]

Right? Thank you! I've been shown the light my friend

[@christopherbriden8403]

This customer is willing to pay for an accurate diagnosis. Much cheaper for me than guessing. I don’t like the feeling when you know the shop is just guessing because they don’t have the equipment to go any deeper.

[@oldglstuf]

Do you quote a price, or do you just expect carte blanche until the problem is found?

[@ScannerDanner]

Depends on if it's been to 3 different shops before it comes to me. For those, I start at $1000 retainer type of fee before I even begin. If they say no, no problem, take your problem car elsewhere.

[@oldglstuf]

@@ScannerDanner As a customer, and as someone who can see how you roll by watching your channel, I would be unwise not to trust you with the work. I would need a pile of references though from anyone who claimed they can do what you do. Thanks very much for the reply!

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

you nailed it brother, we dont get to see behind the scenes all the time i think@@oldglstuf

[@nservice1625]

​@@ScannerDannerThis is how I handle every diagnostic situation. I have very little pushback from it once I explain to a customer that we have no idea what's wrong with the car, it maybe easy to figure out, it may be complex. 1000 secures you a block of time for me to spend dealing with your problem for you.

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

again, its your location that will allow you to do this. not every part of this country could you have a business with that 1000 up front fee no matter how good you are. maybe go to Alabama in the country and open up and see how you fair. it maybe easy to charge that where your at . it is always about location for a business. their is so many sides and angles to this situation. in your area and experiences that works for you . maybe some of you guys chime in from different areas of this country and tell us if you could charge that fee, then we could see a some more data on this subject

[@shasheekaushalya4253]

❤❤

[@themechanic6117]

💯💯💯💯🙏

[@johnreid859]

How do I know, as a customer, that you the technician, can give me an accurate diagnosis? Is there a certification certificate that reads that you have been certified by a professional organization like Rosedale College to give an accurate diagnosis? Or does the customer have to guess that the person standing in front of him can give an accurate diag. Is there a National standard that has to passed?

[@ScannerDanner]

This is the best I can do. www.scannerdanner.com/find-sd-shops.html These are shops using my training program for their techs. Keep checking back as we are adding new shops all the time and hopefully you can find one in your area.

[@lakesautomotivediagnostics6509]

🔧💯🔧

[@huntnfishnuts5880]

To repair any system on a modern vehicle you need proper training, experience which will improve your efficiency in reducing your diag time and the proper tools and equipment to diagnose the problem you are trying to fix, all of these things cost a lot of money (especially the tools) so if I diagnose your problem, repair the problem and send you down the road with a proper fix then I should be payed properly for that service. But if you diagnose something incorrectly then you need to make it right for the customer.

[@ScannerDanner]

100%!

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

mostly its a shop owner that has to be convinced .he is head of everybody at that shop,if he wont get the tech trained then the tech will make the mistakes. if the owner does not follow up on a bad tech, then its the owners fault. the owner wonts to make money so if a bunch of parts are replaced then their is lots of money being made, profits. if the owner trains a tech to a top of the line diag tech then the tech should be making good as well. maybe try to interview those top shop owners who has top trained employees with good wages so everyone could see how it could be in the industry. i visit the local dealers and speak with the techs, they replace lots of parts guessing but finally get them fixed by all those parts. from what i see is, good location, wealthy people you can still be the parts cannon guy and do well . but in a less wealthy location, fewer people you woud not survive unless you are very good but you still could not charge a lot because the money is not their. those customers dont have the money. these conversations need to be had, but its more complicated and would take a lot of us getting together to figure it out. it cant happen in a few of these dialogues. we need all sides to come in and have these conversations together, customer, tech owner,etc. i m open to these talks but we need a way to personally have them. maybe have numerous pod cast not just one or two. maybe that would help

[@ScannerDanner]

Love this idea! Interview the shop owners who are doing it right and share that info with you all! Noted!

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

Whenever I quote a diag fee the FIRST thing out of the customer's mouth is " Is that applied towards the repair? I say it is because that's just the shop's way of handling the situation. If I am talking to someone who seems to have a triple digit IQ I will just explain that the diag fee doesn't increase the cost of the repair because it has to happen anyways. People are very short sighted but usually not because they're unintelligent. It's because they are not used to paying the kind of money that it takes to maintain the modern day toys.

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

your right maybe if the you tube guys would show the time in hours after a diag it would help the customer more when they see the time in hours it took. not just a edited 10 minutes. tell me thats asking to much or if im wrong

[@ScannerDanner]

I think it completely devalues what we do to roll the diag time into the repair. I know your name and really appreciate your long time support so that comment is in no way directly at you, or if that's your policy, is it a slight towards you. I just think we need to charge a premium for these tests that we do and be proud of it. Because when we're done, it's right! And if we're wrong, we eat it.

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

@@ScannerDanner It's just the language that the place I work at chooses to use. At the end of the day the repair cost is the same out the door. When somebody wants it broken down I do so. We add actual diag time to actual repair time and estimate for the total. If the customer declines we may win a little or we may lose a little but it averages out. It sounds a bit socialist but it's what you get when the customer expects a stable base price to start on. There are times when I will tell them "I will start the clock, do the repair, stop the clock and charge you that amount." It sounds unreasonable to many but it helps them understand when there are dozens of variables involved, or they walk right up front which is OK. I understand that you're trying to get people paid for their work and I'm on the same side as you. I also understand that there are multiple ways of doing it with the only real differences being philosophical. I understand and respect your philosophy but I'm looking at it from a variety of angles including yours.

[@TheBiocart]

I've been enjoying your videos on KZbin. I stream them on TV. I'd consider your premium service, but I dont see a way to stream to TV???

[@sterline80]

It's hard to want to do diag at "straight time" when I can do ball joints and get a 5 hour job done in 1.5

[@ScannerDanner]

Exactly my point! We have to change this if we want to attract the types of minds into this field that are capable of electrical and electronics systems troubleshooting

[@sterline80]

@@ScannerDanner I'm not sure what the answer is. Too many ignorant customers who will think they are getting ripped off when they are told it'd be 500 to diag when the used car lot they bought the thing from had a guy who can "figure it out" for 100. Too much undercutting all around in the industry

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

money is the key to attract these people, said this many times, but the owners are not gona pay for it. so how do you address this? when you are talking to us techs ,mechanics we hear you but that wont change the owners perspective. i guess what im saying is its not us thats the issue to whom you are talking too, its the business owners that will have to change. good luck on that@@ScannerDanner

[@ScannerDanner]

​@@sterline80let them go elsewhere if they don't want to pay!

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

sometimes i have to step back and look at this in a different light. all these things are issues, but how did we get here in the first place? the car companies and our govt has pushed us to this maybe. do you think if a car company wanted to make a simpler car without all this tech could be allowed too? probably not. and if the company was allowed to , do you think they would be prosperous. do you think the people of this nation would want one? chime in , im curious. lower cost and repair bills who would go for this?

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

i know we are trying solve a issue. but maybe we are missing the big picture, the freedom of life liberty and happiness. why cant we build a car for the people like the volkswagen, it was cheap and affordable i think this is the big problem , just a dreamer i guess

[@fascistpedant758]

There's no definite conclusion to this discussion, Paul. There are too many incompetent/dishonest players in the industry to establish general rules. Not to mention that some diagnostic are so quick and simple that they don't even warrant a separate diagnostic fee. There are too many variables to come to any one "right" conclusion.

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

thats what im talking about as well. you hit the nail on the head

[@StationRussification]

2 problems play into this 1 Apathetic Practices 2 Specialized/ Dept.'s R a thing of the past, so-called bumper to bumper mechanics & owners/advisors/managers flooding shops w/these hacks

[@rickowens4397]

So, you are saying there is a problem with 90% of Diag-shops (Testing Stations, if you will) and the only solution is self-correction!? Paint me skeptical for a fix.

[@ScannerDanner]

Self correction? Not sure I said what the "only" solution was. Certainly those who are doing it correctly need to be lifted up, not only so the customers can find them, but as a model of how it's done for the other 90% who are doing it wrong.

[@griceldaochoa9258]

I HOPE YOU SEE THIS. I CAN “ NOT” FIND A DIAGRAM FOR THE A.C. THAT RUNS INSIDE THE TRUCK UNDER THE CARPET. THANK YOU

[@elinambo]

Do you complain when you go to the Doctor or E.R? And when they charge you for every test done and little items they use? No! They deal with it and say nothing. But then they come to us and complain we are charging “an arm and a leg”.

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

thats a different industry, if those people had to pay the full amount they would be baulking to . health insurance covers most of that and if you dont have insurance like illegal migrants its free. different scenario . my question is do you pay those expensive test out of your own pocket or does your insurance help pay. dont mean no harm against you, the doctor hospital thing does not coincide with this industry

[@ScannerDanner]

We totally pay out of pocket these days! I have a $3000 deductible for my family before insurance covers some of this stuff. Health insurance is the worst I've ever had since Obama care passed

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

ok 3000 out of pocket for 20k or 50 k hospital and doctor bill, compare this to if you had to pay the 20k or 50k after you leave the hospital and same thing you hate to have to pay the 3k first and monthly premium so you have became a( customer) of the health care system and you dont like that fee. so maybe the health care system has to convince you of those fees so you will be educated. not trying to rag you ,but the customer is thinking like you know, why have i got to pay those fees. so if a customer had repair insurance and had to pay say 1000 deductible along with a monthly premium for that 3k or 7k repair bill they might like that better to some degree. right know the customers are not covered with repair insurance, so they have to pay that fee and repair in full ,again health care and automotive are not a fair comparison.mr danner i like what you do, i commend you on your efforts to teach and help others ,you have helped me also. im not trying in no way to offend you. i can take it when someone calls me out on something if im wrong . some time it brings me around to reality and maybe i was not looking at the subject matter the right way , im not a hot head or trouble maker. if we sat down together im sure we could have some great dialog. so some comments might not make no sense to you, but try to step back and put yourself in their shoes and see if you can understand where they are coming from. we all have different opinions and ideas, that makes us who we are, but having constructive dialogue is how we move forward. but as we know in real life good dialogue does not mean we are going to have the outcome we want, its just a effort. wish you all the best on this effort

[@jacksautorepair]

Shops says $375 labor! Customer says, I’m not paying that. Parts $475, oh that’s the price of the part, nothing he can do anything about that. But labor is another story. No business wants to pay labor. Why should they when they making all their money off parts!

[@donaldlee6760]

Here in Oakland, CA, the Toyota dealer only charges $200 / hour shop rate. An an interesting comparison, the Vespa (scooter) shop rate next door in Berkeley, CA is $164/hour.

[@aronwoldemicael4770]

Have you ever worked flood car but the customer and vin report it doesn’t show any signs finally you find out the customer lied to you how do you justify this you speed so many hours bc of luck of information I am sure your brother have one of those experiences pleas ask him any late as now what you do thanks

[@tzvi-goldenberg]

Hello . My name is Zvi Goldenberg, I'm from Israel and I'm from your community. (premium). I was injured during the current war between Israel and Hamas. I really don't understand how the entire automotive diagnostic community in the US doesn't speak up or make their voices heard about what happened to us? Human animals attacked my country kidnapped and murdered babies and women and old men. You and especially you who has such a large community should make your voice heard...

[@ScannerDanner]

I'm so sorry my friend. What can I possibly do to help? This is a battle that has been going on since Abraham. The sons of Ishmael fighting the sons of Isaac. And as a Christian, we know that is was Isaac's line that was blessed and ultimately was where the Messiah was going to come through (the Lion of the tribe of Judah), Israel's line! So you must know where Christians loyalties lie. But what can we truly do? This evil that Hamas brought to your doorsteps is the same evil that permeates this entire world and is growing stronger day by day. Praying for you my brother, that is all I can truly do.

[@bocios]

Client: 500 ?! You just solder a broken wire! Are you serious? Me: Wire repair is free of charge, you pay 500 for time to find this broken wire.😂

[@GL0697]

CHEAP, DONE FAST, QUALITY OF WORK, you can only pick two.

[@peacepoet1947]

Did not watch. Part of the screen on the bottom was flickering. Mostly unpleasant to view.

[@ScannerDanner]

Looks fine on my end?

[@peacepoet1947]

@@ScannerDanner not sure why I'm getting a different view,. I'll try to shut down my tablet and try again to see if anything changes.

[@peacepoet1947]

Rebooting seems to have cleared up the video. Not sure why it happened but I've seen it before but never tried rebooting until today after you mentioned that it was looking good on your end

[@ScannerDanner]

​@@peacepoet1947it was filmed in portrait view on my phone, so maybe that contributed? At least it's fixed on your end. Thanks!

[@peacepoet1947]

@@ScannerDanner troubleshooting works with videos also.

[@wiliamhazzard9780]

That testing is not always accurate, even on your own videos. How can you advocate for these changes when the field id full of crooks which you can not dispute. The average customer is being taken advantage of a good deal of the time.The automotive industry is extremely disfunctional from top to bottom.

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

i believe their are some crooks out their so true, and those crooks give us a bad name,they are our worst enemy. i think the tech side has advanced to far to quick and the shop owners are not getting their techs up to speed, mostly its under trained techs that cant keep up . they are struggling the best they can under the circumstance they are in. they are not wanting to be crooks at all ,they are trying their best. but it has evolved to fast to keep up with. even on this channel im not seeing him jumping own the more sophisticated vehs out their, hybrid ,total electric cars, collision avoidance systems,etc

[@kyletuttle9064]

And shop owners needs to understand the value of a diagnostic tech.

[@nservice1625]

This has become one of the biggest issues in the industry. There is no way any quality dedicated diagnostic tech is going to work for 28 bucks an hour flat rate.

[@user-te3pn4pb4u]

again its the car companies or govt agencies that has driven this to this level of unaffordable cars and sophistication. they wont even allow a simpler car to be manufactured for the average person to own @@nservice1625

[@fuckjewtube69]

I give up, im outta here. On to diesel. If you think about it, cars are just a luxury and they're not valuable. People are NEVER going to understand what this takes and theyre never going to pay for proper diagnostic fees Im just going to accept it now. Diesel on the other hand makes money and they need it now.