Black Panther: Wakanda Forever - TheMythologyGuy discusses

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#mythology #blackpanther #blackpantherwakandaforever #wakanda #disney #marvel #namor #chadwickboseman #mayan #africa #atlantis

[@Just_Call_Me_Aurora]

One thing I really like is that they never made fun of Namor’s winged feet and actually took it seriously.

[@EvenMoreMoney]

fax

[@manuel1846inla1]

I honestly wanted to see this movie take place in between Infinity War and Endgame. It would’ve been cool to see how Wakanda was doing after T’Challa evaporated due to the Thanos snap.

[@TheMythologyGuy1]

Ooh that’s not a bad idea

[@ManoraManYT]

Against that how do you talk about the snap does he stop existing because edge actor is still dead

[@manuel1846inla1]

@@ManoraManYT u just don’t make another sequel

[@sceptechlabs2381]

I think the problem with this idea is that it is a temporary solution cause the character of tchalla would still have to come back leading to having to either explain why he isn’t there for rest of the marvel universe or recast tchalla which is a very big 50/50 on if people will be happy with that

[@Ihavenobadintentions]

@@TheMythologyGuy1 one more request please do a video on lord parshuram too 🙏🙏🙏

[@DzibMoya]

Mayan’s are actually part of my ancestors so the parts where they appear really motivates me.

[@DzibMoya]

@@taylorfusher2997 hm fair enough. But I’m talking about Mayan’s I think your in a wrong video my guy.

[@1993MovieMan]

Same.

[@levydeat]

I REALLY loved how they made Namor’s backstory into a unique Mayan civilization. Atlantis is just kinda played out at this point so I like the Mayan aesthetic

[@chauncie8201]

Namor is a mutant that’s why he has the wings on his feet ❤ NAy- more is pretty cool in the comics. I like his anti hero nature, this movie did not do him justice

[@MajoraZ]

I work with history and archeology channels on Mesoamerica (Aztec, Maya, etc), so I thought i'd give my thoughts on those influences in the film (and at the bottom, my thoughts on your proposed changes to Namor's backstory): Firstly, to address the most obvious thing, Talokan is named after Tlalocan, one of the afterlifes in Aztec religion, namely the one reserved for people who died of drowning and a few other specific deaths, and was the realm of the Rain and storm god Tlaloc: this was a lush garden paradise filled with flowers, trees, streams, rivers, fountains, and pools (and in turn, many Mesoamerican cities and royal estates had large botanical gardens and complex aqueduct, plumbing, and reservoir networks, some of them even being designed to emulate the notion of a Tlalocan afterlife: Look up Huaxtepec or Texcotzinco, Mexicolore has a good article on this) However, there's actually a broader trend of the underworld and afterlife's being linked to water across Mesoamerica beyond the specific Tlalocan afterlife (just one of many) in Aztec mythology, and it is THIS I think where Talokan is mostly pulling from: While the main Aztec and Maya underworlds, Mictlan and Xibalba, aren't described in their entirety as being underwater, things like caverns, springs, pools of water (as well as mirrors) WERE viewed as underworld entrances and connected to those realms, and at Teotihuacan, a pre-Aztec metropolis that they took major cultural influences from, there are man-made caves and tunnels running beneath major temples modeled after watery underworlds. The film is pretty clearly drawing from this: The entrance to the underwater cavern outside of Talokan itself that Shuri was being held in is entered via a pool, which is in front of a sculpture which is a combination of a Cave Monster (most often seen in Epi-Olmec and Maya art, but also other Mesoamerican cultures, it's mouth representing the underworld) and Chaac (The Maya rain god, an analog to Tlaloc, though there's actually some debate on if the Chaac sculptures this one is based on, found on buildings in Maya sites using the Puuc architectural style, are actually Chaac or not). That area Shuri was held in is also clearly based on Cenotes, large sinkholes and caverns filled with water which were important sites to the Maya and tie into the aformentioned cave, pool, water, underworld etc stuff The next biggest and most obvious point of symbolism involves Namor being called Kukulkan, the Yucatec Maya (also the language spoken in the film) name for the Feathered Serpent diety: This is a very widespread archetypical god shared by many Mesoamerican civilizations (in the same way that the Aztec Tlaloc, Maya Chaac, Zapotec Cocijo, etc are all versions of the same rain diety), other versions being the Kiche Maya Gucumatz or the Aztec Quetzalcoatl, Teotihuacan's Proto-Quetzalcoatl, the Olmec Avian-Serpent, etc Broadly speaking, Feathered Serpent gods tend to have ties to rulership and priesthood (the Olmec Avian serpent is seen with rulers, In Aztec chronicles of the prior legendary Toltec civilization, the Toltec official Ce Acatl Topiltzin is heavily tied to Quetzalcoatl, etc), which is a good fit here as Namor as a god-king in Talokan. Additionally, the serpent half links the deity to the ground and mortal realm, while the feathered aspect to the sky and divine. Feathered Serpents so often represent both the boundary and crossing between these realms: Olmec Avian serpents are often depicted in urban thresholds between spaces, Quetzalcoatl in Aztec mythology travels to Mictlan to revive humanity, etc. This also ties into Namor's ability to move between both Talokan and the surface world. I originally wasn't sure if this was intended, but staff on the film implied it was! There was also loads of Conch imageru: Namor gives Ramonda a Conch shell to contact him, we see him using a bisected conch shell as a paint pallete (which was also done historically in Mesoamerica), some of his gold necklaces use gold beads in the shape of conches, and some of the neck embroidry on one of the Talokanil outfits Shuri gets has conches: these aren't just a reference to Talokan being underwater: Conches are play an important role in Mesoamerican iconography and culture, being used to generate music, sound and signals for ceremonies and in war, they were engraved or sculpted into ceremonial art and jewlery, and most importantly here, are heavily associated with the Aztec Feathered Serpent god Quetzalcoatl: Quetzalcoatl was a god of learning, the arts, priesthoods, speech, poetry, etc; and the wind as his aspect Ehecatl. He often wears a spiral conch shell cross section as a pendant, the "Wind Jewel", since conches produced both air and sound. In fact, speech, music, etc is often shown in Mesoamerican art as spiral gusts of air coming from one's mouth or objects, further tying these together, to the spiral shape of the Conch, and also to things like waves of water, the winding shape of a serpent, and the famous Mesoamerican step fret motif (which is what those spiral/meander patterns pop media slaps onto Mesoamerican things are trying to evoke) However, even if the symbolism works, I have some misgivings with tying Namor to Kukulkan. Firstly, it seems weird to me to tie him to a Feathered Serpent god, the Yucatec Maya one, at that, and then name his kingdom after Tlalocan, especially given how the movie mentions Chaac in other contexts. I think going with Chaac or Tlaloc for who he is titled after may have worked better, especially also because such Rain gods all descend from Olmec Were-Jaguar sculptures (with the thick eyebrows and snarled mouth of those sculptures becoming the signature "Goggles" and "fangs" that Tlaloc, Chaac, etc have), for a Jaguar vs Panther theme. Admittedly, though, then you lose out on some of the symbolism Namor has with the dualist nature of Feathered Serpents. Blending Yucatec Maya and Aztec elements is also potentially questionable, though I personally don't mind it. Namor being associated with a god at all may also evoke the "Mesoamericans mistook people as gods" misconception/myth: I think the reference here is to Mesoamerican figures like Ce Acatl Topiltzin, rather then to the Spanish being misaken as gods, but I would have liked to see an explicit statement that the Talokanil know he is not a deity, and it's just a title Moving from nitpicks to serious criticisms: There's a lot that frames the Talokanil as primitive, which plays into excisting misconceptions about Mesoamerica and doesn't work in the context of the film: The movie even calls the Maya of Tulum (A city-state) a "tribe" and their priests as "Shamans", and you don't see any of it's infanstructure, just pyramids and huts. Talokanil warriors are all basically naked, or wear very unsophisticated looking attire of bones, scrapped together looking sinew, and "feathers"/fish scales, with random jade plaques randomly strapped to to that. They use tortoise shells as shields, they use animals for transportation rather then any sort of vehicles. About half of the clothes we see Talokanil people wear look beige, dirty, and not well made, and Talokan itself seemingly only has one large painted structure, the rest seem to be run down concrete frames (evocative of sealab structures without glass) and kelp farms. I think the latter stuff and the use of animals might be trying to suggest their society is more like based around biological engineering then machinery, but I don't think it works, and the soldier attire especially is clearly trying to be "Tribal". Even Namor's personal room in the Cenote, with gorgeous painted murals, ornaments, decorations, that look REALLY well done and researched (based on depictions of Sacred Ceiba trees, Teotihuacano murals, real codex style pottery and ceramics, even some specific IRL pieces, like the Rio Azul Chocolate Pot, some Jaina island ceramics etc) is in a tiny hut that looks dingy from the outside This is sadly common in Mesoamerican media, but is misrepresentative: Mesoamerican cities like Tenochtitlan, Teotihuacan, Tikal, etc had many tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of denizens, and with huge physical expanses: these were giant cities that matched some of the largest (though not THE absolute largest) in Europe at the same time. You had hundreds of huge temples, palaces, plazas, ball courts, and other structures which were richly painted and covered in sculptures and reliefs. Clothing, especially for nobles, was colorful and finely made, with rich patterns and motifs, finely made jewelry, etc. Warriors, again, especially high status ones, wore actual armor, with royal and elite military uniforms and garbs having fine stone and gem and metal inlays, etc. These were societies with courts, judges, diplomats, poets, merchants, scribes, etc. The fact that HISTORICAL Mesoamerican societies had more complex cities and finer clothing and more actual armor is not great, especially as Talokan is intended to be hyper advanced on par with Wakanda. Like, Wakanda still uses spears, which is silly, but at least they have skyscrapers, futuristic vehicles and spy suits, etc However, all that said, the Talokanil are still shown as empathic human beings, not just as violent savages (unlike, say, in Apocalypto, or Lizardmen in Warhammer, etc, etc: It's actually very rare for media to just show these cultures as functioning societies and people to relate to at all), and even if not ALL of their clothing or infrastructure was bad: It's actually a pretty even mix (the warrior stuff aside) of negative and positive for the random Talokanil people (many women have colorful huipil blouses that look nice), and I have some real specific praise for some of Talonkil outfits i'll describe below in a follow up comment, alongside some constructive criticism and other points of praise I couldn't segue into before CONTINUED IN A REPLY BELOW:

[@MajoraZ]

CONTINUED FROM THE ABOVE: For starters, Talokanil piercings are consistently authentic and well done: Namor, Namora, and Attuma's earrings and nose/lip plugs are all taken more or less 1:1 from actual historical royal maya examples: Compare Namor's jade earrings to the earings from the death mask of Pacal the Great of Palenque, or Namora's from the death mask of The Red Queen. The outfit Shuri is given by Namor, the one with the many strings of Jade and red shell beads, was also amazing: The use of Jade plaques and beads there was extremely well done, and the contrast between that and the jade plaques on Namora and Attuma's war outfits is so huge. The red shell beads here are Spondylus, the shell of a Bivalve highly prized in both Mesoamerica and down in the Andes (the Inca, Nazca, etc), and historically the two regions had naval trade linking West Mexico to Ecuador (though to what extent is debated), in part spurred by Spondylus. In general, that outfit is what I WISH most Talokanil outfits were: It's a mix of traditional, accurate Mesoamerican ornamentation with a more modern, almost high-fashion/designer aspects with the underlying dress. Namora's more ceremonial outfit in the scene where Namor declares war is similarly good (though the geometric motifs on it are a bit generic). Attuma's ceremonial Tilmatli cloak and loincloth and such he has in the war declaration scene is alright: It looks sort of roughly made, but it's all at least in the right shape and colorful, and I dig the featherwork ornament strapped to the Tilma and the jade bead ankle braclets, and the Jaguar ones above them, pretty close to some actual Maya examples. Namor's jewlery and clothing ranges from pretty great to eh: I like the golden bead (again with the conches) and pearl necklaces he's often shown with: It's not like a super 1:1 match to Mesoamerican examples, but it's close enough (even if pearl wasn't used in art much). The Golden necklace he has with multiple hanging pearls, in the scene where he first meets Shuri in the Cenote in his painted room, is almost a 1:1 identical match to a specific gold Aztec necklace, where each golden piece is shaped like a Jaguar tooth: The only difference is the added hanging pearls here. I also dig the hooked nose Maya (Chaac?) golden armlets he has in that scene, very close to Maya art, and the white cloak/Tilmatli with the red trim is VERY close to actual Aztec examples, though a royal would have a blue geometric one with red or rainbow trims (Sadly his white/black wool looking tilmatli just has random googled "Aztec patterns" that aren't actually Mesoamerican). I think the pauldrons and braclets in that scene look a little Southeast Asian here rather then Mesoamerican, the Maya style engravings aside, but it looks cool. Same for his golden and blue serpent pectoral: Pectorals are one of those things that media tends to overuse and misuse in Mesoamerican themed things (In the same way media might slap turbans on Middle Eastern things regardless of context), but I'll accept it as a MCU-ified attempt at one, same for the gold arm and leglets he wears with it. I do wish the blue stones the serpents were carved from were Turquiose mosiac though: That was how Mesoamerican art made fancy blue things out of stone, not solid sculptured blue gemstone.... I CANNOT give his helmet/headdress a pass, though: I assume the helmet is based on the animal themed helmets worn by elite Aztec soldiers with Tlahuiztli warsuits, but it is so big and bulky here and the headdress, another thing media tends to misuse, might be one of the worst ones I've seen. The helmet should be simplified (but still fancy looking, just not as bulky), and rather then a headdress, it should have been a long tassel/plume/"ponytail" of green and multicolor "feathers"/fish scales coming out the back, like the Quetzallalpiloni tassels attached to the back of some Aztec warsuit helmets. Anyways, let's shift back to the whole primitivism/technology/infanstructure thing, and give some constructive suggestions: Again, the murals, decorations, ceramics, and other things INSIDE Namor's room in the Cenote was all excellent. There should have been way more of that. Way more of Talokan should have been like the big painted red building in the middle, and I would have liked to have seen more explicit Mesoamerican architectural motifs and designs. I do think the almost Art Deco look of that central structure is interesting, and there are some "Maya revival style" Art deco structures in real life, so maybe having that theme for the whole city would be neat. But I def want, like, actual complex infanstructure, glowing lights on buildings, multistory structures, maybe underwater tube things, etc. It should look as complex as Wakanda. As far as other technology: Even if the implementation was iffy, the IDEA of using fish scales in place of the feathers on Mesoamerican things is neat. I know more about Aztec armor then I do Postclassic Yucatec Maya military equipment, but you could easily turn the Tlahuiztli and Ehuatl warsuits and tunics (which were covered in tens of thousands of iridesecent feathers, arranged by color to indicate rank and unit position) used by high ranking Aztec soldiers into full body sci-fi suits that use iridesecent fish scales instead. Maybe the jaws of the animal themed helmets actually form a visor like a science fiction helmet and that's what's fulled with water rather then just a rebreather. Again, this is a very Aztec centric idea when I know Talokan is more Postclassic Yucatec Maya, but maybe their weapons could use like a liquid, flowing plasma or underwater flames: The dualism of fire and water represents warfare in Aztec iconography, and would give them advanced energy weapons. Maybe Atlatl (a projectile weapon that cradles a dart and acts as a lever to multiply your throwing power to launch the projectile) that fires plasma bolts, etc. Some Maya gladiatorial boxers also used conch shells as boxing gloves/gauntlets, having like cybernetic versions of that as weapons might be cool, too, would tie into this aquatic theme. (There';s also some murals at Bonampak which shows lobster themed ritual outfits which could make cool armor). Also, since the whole "Talokanil soldiers getting back up after being mortally wounded" thing never went anywhere, unless I missed it, maybe that could be explained and tie into the Talokanil having advanced technology to transfer/store life forces from one person to another: This could represent sacrifice (which was less about death, and more about feeding the gods and cosmos to allow the continued prosperity of life) and could also tie into Shuri's moral dilemma of letting go of the past or not: Maybe she could be given a choice of letting go of the past or not: Maybe she could be given a choice to actually sacrifice the scientist girl to bring T'chalia or her mother back. Finally, just to loop back to some other cool references to Mesoamerican things I couldn't naturally segue into before: I dig how when Namor's mother was buried, she's wrapped in a mortuary bundle and a bead is placed in the mouth, which is a real Mesoamerican burial practice. Namor's actions in the film may also tie into the real way Mesoamerican politics and diplomacy worked: Kingdoms and empires rarely directly governed their subjects, and as a result, subject states often kept their own political ambitions and interests, and would often ally with one another to then turn on their capitals or take out their political rivals, and inviting rulers and diplomats of other cities into your own to flaunt it's grandeur was a way to court for alliances and political marriages, similar to what Namor does with Shuri. And of course we see the Mesoamerican ball game! The Talokanil salute, beyond representing shark jaws or heralding the sun (which is IIRC what is said it's based on in interviews), may also be a reference to poses found in many surviving Mesoamerican manuscripts and books, which likewise shows people with vertical hands facing open on top one another, the same pose also see in some Maya sculptures and other examples of Mesoamerican art, though I admit i'm not informed of the symbolism behind tt, and again, interviews don't say it was the origin, so it may be a coincidence. Sharks do, however, also play a major role in Maya culture, with shark teeth being engraved and used in art, in tools, or for ritual bloodletting, and sharks also being depicted in Maya art. There's a great Ars Technica article about some studies on this. We can see some engravings on the giant Shark jaw in the center of Talocan too, which are very close to Maya engravings found on Conch shells at some Mesoamerican sites, too. Lastly, i'm fairly sure Namor's flying is based on how Hummingbirds fly, with a similar darting and zig-zag motion, and the wings moving so fast they become a blur: Hummingbirds were associated with warfare and warriors: Huitzilopochtli is the patron god of the Mexica of the Aztec capital, for example, and is a war diety and is heavily tied to hummingbirds. Hummingbird feathers are also heavily used in art, where their iridescence, like the feathers of Quetzals and some other birds, was highly prized: Aztec warsuits, shields, helmets, etc were covered in tens of thousands of feathers, arranged by color to make different patterns indicating rank and unit division, and the Aztec/Nahuatl word for war attire, Tlahuiztli, means "To glitter", from the glimmering iridescence of the feathers. There's even some Catholic "paintings" made of feathers by Aztec artists during the early colonial period, and these are really cool and I highly suggest looking them up! I hit the character limit again, so my thoughts on your proposed change in a third one! CONTINUED IN A REPLY BELOW

[@SnapshoteyeAdmirer]

im sorry this must be a indept review but no one is reading 2k words abt a shit marvel movie

[@isaim3561]

Respect for writing the comment this long

[@MajoraZ]

CONTINUED FROM THE ABOVE: So, regarding Mythologyguy's proposed change to be the Maya city (not a village) of Tulum being invaded by the Aztec instead: This wouldn't work, for a few reasons. Firstly, the Aztec never got anywhere close to Tulum: Tulum is located at the North of the Yucatan Peninsula, in what now the state of Quintana Roo. The furtherest to the east the Aztec Empire reached was Soconusco, an area in Chiapas they had secured as a source of Cacao beans, and this itself was pretty far out of the areas they had otherwise conquered: Tulum would be another 1000 kilometers away, which is well outside the logistical capabilities for the Aztec Empire to meaningfully conquer: Mesoamerican armies didn't have draft animals to pull carts and to carry supplies, so any rations, supplies, armor, weapons, etc that armies had had to be carried by the soldiers themselves or by human porters, who also had to carry their OWN supplies, etc. The region's terrain was also largerly dense hills and valleys in the highlands, or jungles and swamps in the lowlands. This actually ties in to my point point of dispute with this change to Namor's backstory, which is that the Aztec empire actually did NOT just randomly invade other cities or towns for captives or other random reasons, and actually had a rather hands off political system. They were military expansionists and warmongers, certainly, but that only speaks to them regularly engaging in conquests, not the why or the how or what happened once a state was subjugated. Due to the aformentioned logistical issues, large states in Mesoamerica were fairly hands off, usually without the direct management and administration of subjects, founding of colonies, and or institution of anything close to unified national/cultural identity: Political power was cemented more through fragile tax/tributary and vassal relationships, flaunting your military might, economic success, and ties to other legendary civilizations and kings to get states to align with you and suck up with political marriages, etc. Obviously, Eurasian polities did these too, and there still WAS some examples of more hands on imperialism in Mesoamerica.But hands off and indirect imperialism and methods of establishing political power which much more the norm and were more fundamental in statecraft in the latter then the former. The Aztec Empire was no exception here, and it's primary goal in expansionism was to gain resource rich states as tax-subjects to extract goods and luxuries without expending direct effort, with those states keeping their rulers, laws, and customs and mostly being left alone, as long as they did pay those economic goods as taxes, didn't block roads, provided military aid on request, and other basic obligations.,etc. The Aztec were not coming in and raiding existing subjects (unless they incited others to stop paying taxes), nor were slaves or sacrifices a common tax/tribute demand: Sacrifices were generally from enemy soldiers captured during wars, and sacrifice itself was also a pan-mesoamerican practice every civilization in the region did, not just the Aztec. They would not be randomly coming up to a city or a town and razing it and dragging away the population to be sacrificed: They were targetting resource rich states, kingdoms, and regions to provide resources and goods that the Mexica of the Aztec captial wanted as regular tax payments (or as "gifts", depending on if the state they were targeting was willing join willingly or tried to fight back and got conquered). In fact, some states even intentionally joined the Aztec Empire of their own volition, to get political power and influence via associating with it or from political marriages with Aztec rulers; to get better access to their trade and tax network (some taxes/tribute were redistributed) to gain protection from other hostile states, etc. This is also why the idea that Cortes got allies due to the Aztgec being hated and Cortes playing divide and conquer is wrong: what was really going on, as much or more then Cortes manipulating local states, was local kings and officials manipulating Cortes to benefit their own political ambitions: In a political system where subjects mostly stayed independent, they had the motivations and the capacity to secede, backstab, and preform coups opportunistically to sway or cause the house of cards they held up that their capitals rested on to collapse, so they could advance politically. Especially by allying or pledging themselves to another group (since again, as a subject they had little to lose) to then work together to take out existing political rivals or capitals, to then be in a position of higher standing in the aftermath. (The Aztec Empire itself was founded this way in the late 1420s) . For example, the city of Cempoala (and it's king Xicomecoatl), the capital of one of 3 major kingdoms of the Totonac civilization, and a recent conquered subject of the Aztec, lied to Cortes about there being an Aztec fort oppressing them at Tzinpantzinco, which was really a rival Totonaca capital city. They then led the Conquistadors into the territory of Tlaxcala, one of the states in Central Mexico the Aztec hadn't manage to conquer yet, and which the Totonacs were hostile with. When the Tlaxcaltecas and the Conquistadors fought to a standstill and allied with one another (with different Tlaxcalteca officials like Xicotencatl I, Xicotencatl II, disagreeing on what to do, later on Xicotencatl II would end up being executed when a rival Tlaxcalteca politician got Cortes to execute him) en route to Tenochtitlan (as Tlaxcala was an active target of Aztec invasions and DID have resentment towards the Aztec), they stopped in Cholula, where the Tlaxcaltecas fed Cortes rumors of them planning to assassinate the visitors, and it just so happens that the Tlaxcaltecas end up propping up a pro-Tlaxcalteca political faction after they and the Conquistadors sack the city, after Cholula had recently switched from being aligned with Tlaxcala to the Aztec. Finally arriving at Tenochtitlan, Moctezuma II allows them into the city: Flaunting the grandeur of your city and it's opulence was a common method of courting a foreign state into becoming a vassal or an ally (to say nothing of the princesses they gave to high ranking conquistadors, an attempt at political marriages the Conquistadors mistook as offerings of concubines). When Pánfilo de Narváez arrived, who actually was sent by the governor of Cuba to arrest Cortes as he had been out on his expedition illegally, Narvaez actually worked with Aztec officials to get capture Cortes, since by this point they realized Cortes wasn't a licensed diplomat representing a foreign king. It is only after 1. Cortes panics, Moctezuma II and other Aztec rulers and officials get captured, locked up (Cortes of course claims this happened earlier and he was always in control) and then are killed; 2. the Aztec nobles and elite warriors are killed while unarmed during a religious festival; 3. smallpox broke out, and 4. the Conquistadors and Tlaxcalteca flee back to safety; that then other core-Aztec states inside the valley like Texcoco (the second most powerful Aztec city), Chalco, Xochimilco, Itzpalapan, etc ally with Cortes. Because by then, Tenochtitlan was weak, vulnerable due to it losing it's elite soldiers, its king (always a period in Mesoamerican history where subjects would stop paying taxes and see what they could get away with untill the new ruler re-asserted their military power), and struck by plague. Furthermore, these also made Tenochtitlan unable to project it's power and wield its political authority; and by extension, said core subject states inside the valley didn't benefit as much from the tax influx into the area (which was secured by the threat of retaliation if taxes weren't paid, something currently jeopardized) or their political marriages with Tenochtitlan at the moment, de-valuing their close relationship with it. (Ixtlilxochitl II of Texcoco also had a grudge against the Mexica of Tenochtitlan, as in a recent war of succession after the prior Texcoca king died, the Mexica favored a competing heir as the claimant to the throne, so when the Conquistadors and Tlaxcalteca returned to the valley to siege Tenochtitlan, Ixtlilxochitl II, who had split power with other heirs, sided with Cortes wheras other Texcoca royals sided with Tenochtitlan)

[@masonshaw536]

​@@MajoraZ Can’t wait for a third section of your insights into this movie. Your knowledge of Aztec culture and its mythology is amazing! Do you by any chance have a blog so I can read more of your knowledge about Mesoamerica topics?

[@FunFilmFare]

Also the backstory of Namor’s people is just like the Greek myth of Glaucus: Glaucus ate some magical herb that turned him into a fish person and made him live in the sea.

[@mediaguyking7045]

The underwater city was supposed to be dark since it’s located in underground caverns where the sun never reaches, and like the comics they weren’t technologically advanced compared to land people

[@joseph9970]

the Mayan's histroy was one of the best parts of the movie

[@erikbihari3625]

You found more than one? Congratulations, your species of mcu enjoyers is going extinct!🤣🤭😉

[@andrewwang8021]

I like this review. All of your criticisms were made in good faith, and while I don't agree with all of them, I certainly enjoyed what you had to say, particularly your points regarding the backpedalling on Wakanda's stance on sharing Vibranium, and how that could've been incorporated into an arc about honoring T'Challa's memory (while politically unwise, it would've made it more thematically and narratively appropriate).

[@d.a.f.]

They were sharing resources just not Vibranium which is something the T'challa probably also agreed with especially after what Killmonger did

[@erikbihari3625]

I thought that's where the nanotech come from in Infinity war with both Spider and Iron mans! Also if vibranium would be so bad for the world maybe they shouldn't have showed how useful it is!

[@d.a.f.]

@@erikbihari3625 Vibrainum's usefulness was known before Wakanda revealed itself. I am pretty sure that Tony developed his own nanotech as well.

[@erikbihari3625]

@@d.a.f.your missing what I was talking about. Killmonger might've wanted to arm opressed so they'd take their overlords' place, but vibranium has so many other uses that don't involve military applications, like how Martin freeman's character was healed from a gunshot wound to the spine in a couple of hours with no ill effects! Further compounded by the fact that like every white person they continuously belittle and insult by calling them colonizers. So withdrawing This kind of miracle comes across as extremely selfish and douchy on the wakandans' part. Because it operated under the false missconception of it being an"us vs them"situation!

[@d.a.f.]

@@erikbihari3625 I get your point but major steps would have to be taken before ever considering distributing Vibranium. Much like how uranium distribution is controlled and a contentious subject. I agree that they should share Vibranium but doing so is extremely risky.

[@erikbihari3625]

@@d.a.f.It sounds about as stupid like people argueing in favor of she-hulk's m.c.u. origins!(Yeah, I'm not joking.)

[@bootsthecat6718]

A friend of mines ex-girlfriend once made him promise not to go see the movie Titanic without her. After he promised her he would not, she went and saw it with some of her friends. Out of protest he never watched the movie

[@OverlyPositiveFanboy]

Considering that we were originally going to get Aquaman 2 this December, I can definitely understand why they changed Namor's origin.

[@mediaguyking7045]

Taking Namur hostage would’ve been a bad idea, the sea people would’ve seen it as act of aggression, or there would’ve been a power vacuum, and the new ruler would’ve also been a problem

[@maxlee8780]

I also gave the movie seven out of 10. And you got that the end credit scene was introducing him as t'challa Jr. He was just saying his father's name like all wakandans do when they're being properly introduced.

[@cryptic1999]

Funny how The Mythology Guy does not mention a new character that could have been cut out of the movie in the no-spoilers part and yet, most can tell who's he talking about.

[@LukeHuber]

Same for me, had a very empty theater and there were a couple chuckles during it (at parts I didn't think were funny in the slightest) but the only time the audience was really engaged was at the end when it it said in loving memory of Chadwick boseman.

[@MysteryMan16]

About Shuri not showing up to her coronation: I think that was her way of rejecting the crown, and M'Baku saying "the Black Panther is not here, also I challenge for the throne" is implying that he's the new King. The mantles of King and Black Panther are not necessarily held by the same person, so it could be possible.

[@d.a.f.]

I mean keeping him prisoner might have been a bad idea. It's hinted that there are a lot of telochanians

[@alphariusomegon7374]

WAKANDA FOREVER - CHADwick boseman

[@mriddley]

I would have loved to see more of talokan it was beautiful

[@kadlifts]

On the music side. Even guardians pop music is all songs from when Peter was abducted and that his mum showed him so there’s a theme

[@FunFilmFare]

I liked your idea for Namor’s backstory much more! And in defense of the movie’s ending *WARNING: SPOILERS*… I think she let him go simply so the Talokan people wouldn’t re-invade her home. She’s clearly not happy about letting him go and would much prefer to kill him.

[@grekoy]

I agree. They invaded her home once. What is stopping them from invading her home again to retrieve Namor.

[@ermsbebop8731]

I genuinely love your content dude, please don’t give up, I’m just watched all your god of war videos and I genuinely want more, I want your cards, you are amazing

[@sora2k05]

Actually the little boy told shuri that his wakandan name is tchalla so that makes him prince tchalla II ps the women’s name was Nakia and the little boy’s Haitian name is Toussaint

[@pepperje11y]

I took the end with MBaku to mean that they decided together that he would rule and she was Black Panther, so no need for her to be there. They started that conversation earlier in the movie. Also, RiRi is Ironheart, but I have no idea why on earth they never even said that. Should've left that character for another movie like you mentioned. The only other thing I wanted to mention was that Shuri was Black Panther in the comics when T'Challa was almost fatally wounded, so at least it isn't out of nowhere. I agree, though, she kinda reminded me of catwoman in her suit lol.

[@NorthernVirus0]

I feel they had no choice but to put RiRi Williams in the movie because she starts the main conflict and they need her in a movie now and finally she would need to have some kind of connection to the wakandans for her Disney plus series and for the upcoming movies she will be in but they should have at least had her choose her name and tell Shuri it then she gets called by that jokingly and they should have asked her is that an iron man suit or something when they first saw it

[@MK0DarkSpartan853]

I'll remark on a few things that were commented (not to be hurtful, just how I saw them play out and have some vaild reasons): 1st, Riri Williams: Yes, I do agree that she was a mixed bag and may have had some awkward moments, but her point of being there was mainly just her introduction and she will be explored in armor wars. This is something I think was bad as they could've gotten more for her IF they gave her more screen time for bonding with Shuri; never the less, she wasn't the greatest character in the film, and a bit angry that her suit is not given to her (P. S. Ironman is mention but just as a reference in the junkyard lab scene) 2nd, Okoye's lines: I do see who you see her jokes as not good (they do are a bit awkward without context) but they need to be scene with some things in mind. The part where she says "Ooo I like her" about Riri is awkward, but she says it AFTER Riri's first attack, which Okoye "deflects"; I think this line meant to give the idea that she likes Riri's actions of aggression towards Okoye and how meaningless they are, like a cat playing with a bug or mouse that is at their grasp, just playing with their food. Okoye's second line, "A colonizer in chains" is not that a white person was arrested but rather a joke to the ancestry between Africans and European colonies/white people, her being on the POV of the person who has power. By the way, her and Shuri calling him colonizer seems to be a way to call white people, yet using with Ross mostly by their stable bond, somewhat of an inside joke. It is mainly how someone may have a friend from the Texas and always making towards him about something about Texas, I'm Mexican with Peruvian family and I've heard many times how in Peru and Chile they eat pigeons, not true and somewhat mean, but just a joke none the less. 3rd, Shuri not going for the throne: I'm sorry, but for the last scene you forgot something important that happened in the first Black Panther: T'Chala's fight against M'Baku. The way the king is selected in Wakanda is through a sort of tournaments against the challengers, that's how Killmonger became king in the middle of Black Panther. This is tradition, and seems that if the king dies, the mantle of ruler will be passed to the queen or past king/queen if living, when it come to Shuri, she wasn't addressed as queen but rather princess, she was just going to fight for the throne. I'll admit, her not appearing to the ceremony and letting M'Baku give the news is a bit harmful but this actions follow her character of not following tradition and states one thing from a storytelling perspective, M'Baku is the new ruler of Wakanda. 4th, Lettoing Namor go: Okay, Shuri's actions seem dumb but they are the best thing to do. Even though they were done mostly to make a Namor movie (It's Marvel, it's Disney, it's money), If Wakanda had imprisoned Namor, there would be many of his people going to fight for him and try to liberate him, another war with more blood spilled; having him captive would be almost the same as having him killed, the only thing is that he would be a dangerous asset if he gets free once more. Also, Okoye and the others would've died jeje. Wakanda would surely have a problem with Namor out there, yet is a problem that they would have to deal within the people. Now, about the secrets, if they tell the US, Namor will do as he said, he will destroy Wakanda, then start an allout-war against the nations. Now, who would have the advantage? Many countries with great fire power and nukes or one civilization with tons of the most powerful metal known to man, superhumans with great regenerative abilities and siren singing, a superhuman god that breathes air AND in water and can fly, AND the power to control sea life and water itself on a planet were it is mostly covered on it? Namor wants for their society to stay hidden from the land dwellers, if Wakanda tells others, the war starts, so Wakanda needs to play by their rules. Namor has the upper hand in any way possible

[@adurskenplayz5984]

Am I the only one who gets reminded of Hermes when I see the ankle wings of Namor

[@goldsea1678]

I think the movie was less cheery was because of the attitude it has. It feels more serious throughout its runtime. I also love this Namor and his new origin. And I agree that Talocan was a bit dim.

[@excel5963]

Finally I am early to one of the mythology guy videos

[@Hellfire14]

The aquaman argument made me laugh a little because Namor came before aquaman in the comics. So aquaman was originally the ripoff

[@ItsSilverPride]

This is why I’m trying to hire someone like you to consult on my writing. I want to stay true to the mythologies as much as I can, but work, writing, and writing classes take up all of my time. Is there a place I can contact you about paid consultations? You’re my dream business partner when it comes to that lol

[@TheMythologyGuy1]

You can message me on discord if you want my input on something. I’m a little slow to respond though

[@V1TheWarMachine]

@@TheMythologyGuy1 This man responds and cares about his community, Respect!

[@lakshmikanthpadayachi508]

Point For Sharing This Man🤝🏼

[@mediaguyking7045]

Riri Williams isn’t taking over iron man’s mantle, her character wasn’t designed nor introduced for that intent, she’s inspired by iron man but seems to have no intention of being iron man

[@TROLLZ00]

Hi mythology guy there is this anime about mythology gods and it’s called record of Ragnorak and it’s about the gods and how they want to erase humanity and it’s about to get a second season and I was wondering if you could do everything wrong with Record of Ragnorak

[@jackofspades3845]

I would have enjoyed iron hearts story if she wasn’t introduced as iron man’s follow-up, but having filled the bro-sis shoe… sis-sis I guess, but this could have led to so much more and not left so much to be wanted

[@ranceht3914]

You should make a video on the anime Record of Ragnarok

[@holy6142]

You’re the best you’re accurate and cool

[@holy6142]

@@TheMythologyGuyYT-on_Bestgram oh cool what is it

[@jeremiahdavidmichaelgraham7777]

For me, Namor was the best part of the movie… I wanted to see more of Namor and more of his power set.

[@benpecca2849]

Hey I love your vids and I was wondering who do you think is the strongest god you have looked at across all mythology

[@avantikapatel4622]

Panthers (aka Panthera ) include the 3rd and 4th biggest predators on the planet, tigers and lions, and are defined by their huge body and ability to roar they also include jaguars and leopards The Black panther is the movie feels more like a panther as in the mountain lion :strong but ultimately less dangerous and intimidating Wakanda is in Africa a place where mountain lions aren’t really present so it obviously wouldn’t fit I feel like they were going for #1 and not number #2

[@thatoneidiot7755]

This video is perfect for me because I’m too lazy to watch the movie, I love all your videos though Edit: I know that I might sound like that one hater rn but, what is going on with your hair?

[@chaseharden2732]

I feel like M’Baku was disrespected by the new Black Panther and me personally I wouldn’t have taken that Edit: Namor also came before Aquaman, he was one of the first Marvel characters

[@bignoob4890]

You probably won't see this, but the new Percy Jackson and the Olympians trailer dropped and it is amazing, you should review it.

[@KedronGriggs]

Wakanda Forever

[@RhiannaRyselAOpo]

I loved the movie for tons of reasons

[@Gamespectives]

After watching Nostalgia critic cameo here when u said here "Hi im the mythology guy", i expected "I read mythology books, so u dont have to!"

[@gjontanushi9678]

I am a big fan of you mythology guy

[@leonjohnston885]

Dude.. killer review i agree with 100% on your points. I enjoyed the first movie this one just felt rushed. Haha and yeah you need to work on your ending just say something cheesy or corny like the end or see you next time

[@arta.xshaca]

Rushed and at the same time, long.

[@mohamedfaroukelewa5905]

after what you said about the ending ... & demoting the 7 to a 6 can you review Mass Effect 3

[@brotquel1592]

"The Dora Milaje have jurisdiction wherever the Dora Milaje find themselves to be." That would be an act of invasion, buddy! Wonder what the reaction would have been if Steve Rogers was the one saying that... To me that is HANDS DOWN the worst line in the movie.

[@d.a.f.]

Shuri did not become Queen Embaku is becoming King. She is just going to remain as the protector of Wakanda

[@TheMythologyGuy1]

Oh I did not catch that

[@d.a.f.]

@@TheMythologyGuy1 She probably would have lost tbh as they take away the superstrength for the fight. T'Challa had to fight for the crown so this was like a formality that had to be done once a less temporary ruler was put in place

[@thajocoth]

I found Namor to be in his own way too much. Every single time he tries to appeal to people throughout the movie, he follows it up with a threat against them, immediately losing all of the sympathy and good will he just built up with his speech.

[@amandajm15]

They mentioned the 2nd character whose manatal is being taken over. I believe the police yell it out. And I think they talk about it in the shop.

[@gautambhatti5870]

I think you should make videos about mythology stories

[@LikelyRain.]

❤❤❤

[@gryfon_gamez8184]

Riri isn't the new Iron Man she's her own character called Ironheart who was inspired by Tony Stark ine the same vain as Miles being Spiderman

[@Kinetic101]

Ironheart sucks and thats fact. Miles morales stomps as Spiderman and that's fact.

[@gryfon_gamez8184]

@@Kinetic101 no it's opinion

[@Kinetic101]

@@gryfon_gamez8184 nah dude its not opinion. Riri isn't a really good character.

[@MagnustheDemon71]

8/10 movie, quite satisfied with the outsome tied shang chi to be my fav phase 4 mcu movie

[@Petrico94]

While this movie is nice, the first is better and had some issues in development it's able to run with somewhat. I'm not sure how much it connects to Mayan myth or Quesokoala, it looks weird for an underwater people, the movement is cool but I wish it was actually fighting Hermes instead. It's not at all "Atlantis", I like the idea of it being a Mayan made up city that just sort of fits the idea of an underwater city, I agree I wish we saw more looks of Mesoamerica which you can just go all the way with while Wakanda I think everyone knows is just a mix of different African traditions no one will notice. If you like Mesoamerican myth, have you seen or done a video on 'Maya and the Three' on Netflix?

[@exkau]

hey you nearly hit 1M , I have suggestion what if to celebrate 1M sub you make review of Dragon ball evolution since you make few 'bad movie' review and DBE is an adaptation of DB where goku is inspire by wukong, it has link to myth which make more sense to review it

[@adameldera3728]

Keep up the good work man also I actually want you to see thor love and thunder spoiler alert zeus is there and sure the movie is hell but you can do this I mean you've reviewed worse remember

[@divinecheeseburger5270]

How was your Thanksgiving

[@TheMythologyGuy1]

Good overall

[@kklightning5693]

Also the pop songs only appeared when they were in Modern Areas as you said was in the last film, like when they were in Massachusetts and when they were in Shuri’s lab

[@Pixelakis]

Can you make an inaccuracies video with the movie Troy

[@MrGuideElk]

What happened to the wife/girlfriend?

[@strombreakr]

They did Namor SO FRICKIN GOOD in this movie Edit: I thought the exact same thing about the suit and stuff Edit 2 (Electric Boogaloo): Nay-more. Sorry I had to. Also Namor's change is fine with me. If it works with the overall character and isn't too different, it's fine to change a character's origin. And the Aquaman thing, too, I guess.

[@strombreakr]

I also love how they made him seem like a physical threat. I had no idea how built different Namor was but this movie enlightened me. Also Namor getting off too easy isn't a problem with the movies, it's just being accurate to the comics. It's still a problem, but it isn't a problem exclusive to the movie.

[@strombreakr]

@TheMythologyGuyYT-on-Bestgram screw you

[@ProjectTitain]

Is anyone else fucking confused on the numbers of this guy's army? This guy Namor, said his numbers were akin to blades of grass in wakanda, so how much fucking did they do within the last 300-500 years or so?

[@sajjadmirza_]

Man i think you are going through tough time

[@ghristophermyers666]

Can you do every mythical inaccuracy in GOW 2018?

[@wilnahad3403]

0:10 Ya good buddy 🥲

[@iwanderkinderen6790]

Namor isn't a villain he is an anti-hero also they did mention iron man

[@masterpink6963]

Iron Heart was already planned

[@tylerdenson6630]

I think these are all really valid takes. I’m black and some of the jokes and themes came off as unnecessary or distasteful even to me. Still a solid movie all & all

[@davidthirugnanakumar7888]

?????ok , i guess

[@maverickdewitt]

Can you please make videos on the live action Hercules movie

[@snaxets]

Fyi God of War is in a universe that has Earth, but 20x bigger. God of War has every mythology mixed into it. Not just Greek and Norse.

[@FriendlyNeighborhoodGeek99]

I enjoyed it for what it is, almost cried a few times great review

[@erikbihari3625]

Won't két it happen again! That's how they get you.

[@cinematicbeauty2194]

16:00 what! T'challa wanted to do outreach programs not hand out Vibranium . Remember what Europeans did when they discovered dynamite , you think it's a smart idea to hand them Vibranium.

[@garrettberkowitz5873]

Instead of saying unalive in this scenario, say go sleeping with the fishes

[@mdtamzid3142]

what you said about there being no applause for any other part of the movie is not necessarily true as the day I went to watch the movie there were a lot of laughs and applause, I think it might have been the crowd you were watching it with.

[@adameldera3728]

You are the king

[@nocontextcrew7380]

This is just my opinion but I found the movie to be kind amid sure there were parts I did enjoy but the acting didn't really feel like what it used to

[@jackofspades3845]

Any movie that begins with an end shouldn’t involve more than that

[@cycloneabsol9405]

The point of the Post-Credits scene isn't that he's T'Challa's son, the point is that he was NAMED T'Challa, and that hits in the feels.

[@bloodymary3008]

Get your Crowley on y'all

[@blitzwingprime]

The thumbnail 😭🤣

[@cooperbeddingfield3830]

Woop

[@kushagrasharma6897]

please review HANUMAN Teaser 😁

[@kushagrasharma6897]

and Kantara and Karthikeya 2 teaser😁

[@burcoltrash]

So I was looking up Greek gods and it states "if thanatos cuts hair with his sword it kill you" so going off your god of war video he could've cut deimos's hair with something else but thanks for the content and don't mean to sound rude I just wanted to correct you is all

[@TheMythologyGuyYT]

Text the above address, on telegram To claim your prize 📦🏆..............

[@171QA]

Great video.

[@michasalamon8315]

Hey! If you could Please look up Rascu y Podrick and watch their musical video about different mythologies it would be amazing. Thank me later

[@grantwalter2243]

Do a video on Clash of the Titans

[@Melt0id]

If you cut out iron heart what would story even be, it’s all started with her invention

[@mrpikachu3154]

Wow

[@Focilift]

You should do the mask the movie I mean since Loki

[@Focilift]

@@taylorfusher2997 great plan this will get him to watch THE MASK it’s on KZbin ya know

[@sporkythebeardeddragon5672]

Sorry but GOOFY AUGGHH HAIRCUT IN THE THUMBNAIL GOOFY AUGGHH 🥶💀

[@ashersales2134]

I need help finishing an argument with my friend who would win Jesus or Sun Wukong?

[@L_Ryan]

What happened to your cardgame?

[@camerontyler5218]

I wonder if you would watch the percy jackson musical...

[@amandajm15]

Spoiler***** I thought by not showing at the end she was declining to be queen, and M'Baku was trying to be king.