Let's Talk About Darkwave.

[@PeaceAtHeart896]

I'm both a goth and a metalhead. I've been listening to Goth Rock and Metal for 14 years. I love Death Rock, Darkwave, and Old Goth Rock and modern.. I'm so glad that you mentioned She Past Away, they are my favorite Darkwave band, I'm wearing their shirt currently. I go from listening to Bauhaus or She Past Away to listening to Prog Metal or Death Metal etc.. I like branching out. Great discussion and video 🕯️🎃🕯️

[@itsthevillainerd1351]

I would love to read that thesis you did as a student.

[@t--w5203]

Lol nerd

[@lasernikixcex]

@@t--w5203 rude

[@Hambo325]

@@lasernikixcex lol nerd

[@richardlulay4365]

Deejaying in 1985, I remember having trouble categorizing trends in music, and even the venues as people would ask what kind of nightclub I worked in. "New Wave" was the term most often used, but most anything that was not played on AM radio stations and could be danced to was considered this--truly an FM approach to club music. This being said, if something punk-like had a synth beat, the term "death rock" came up for lack of anything better--something along the lines of Sisters of Mercy, but could also be used for, say, Visage or Killing Joke. Post-Punk, Goth, Dark Wave--to me--came after the genres had gone into subsequent generations.

[@wonderwheel80s]

I thought deathrock was more like Danzig (or even some tunes by the Misfits, "Return of the fly" comes to mind) or Christian Death.

[@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396]

@@wonderwheel80sSpecimen like bands.

[@Bat_Fiend.]

I think one genre doesn't exclude the other. You can take elements from different genres but still have them represented in their own respect. One band can be several genres combined but still have those separate genres stand on their own within the overall sound. At least that's my opinion.

[@coolti44]

This helps me explain to younger club goers why we didn’t have “genres” in the 80s other than New wave and Industrial and these terms we’re developing as new music was being released back then. I DJ underground 80s music and when I advertise I have ensure I’m labeling my gigs to the terms the younger gen understands. You made a super accurate comments here regarding Clan of Xymox. When their debut record was released in 1985, we didn’t even think what to call it; other than New Wave or a New Music Alternative. Even bands like Ministry were labeled “experimental” before the term industrial was realized. I expected to just swipe through this but it’s educated me and helps me connect the dots for my younger patrons. Thanks!

[@cindyariko605]

To me, despite the fact that not all of their music can be considered darkwave, Drab Majesty IS a Goth project. A lot of their songs have that 80's darkwave feel similar to Clan of Xymox (again, my own perspective), but I guess that might depend on how much of a band's music is considered Goth by some people. I think Deb Demure is aware of this because he coined the term Tragic wave to his style of music.

[@astronomy7911]

I agree 100%. Love Drab Majesty :)

[@superduper5698]

Yesssss 🖤❤️

[@ashgonza92]

Certain genres can always be adjacent to others too

[@enrage6073]

For me it was all about this chorus effect guitars like Cocteau Twins’ Robin Guthrie. I love Drab Majesty they are my favourite band right now

[@ThreadBomb]

I'd say Drab Majesty aren't goth, and it's nothing to do with the balance of synth and guitar, because music can be goth while only using synths and samples. It's to do with song structure, melody shape, vocal style, and subject matter. In these terms, Drab Majesty are just synthpop.

[@CesarGonzalez-xl7fc]

Came looking for "Darkwave" the music production software and ended up in this rabbit hole of music, TY.

[@zaziemoondust4326]

Definitely an interesting take that I hadn't noticed before, but it makes loads of sense. Honestly even among those two branches there seems to be lots of variation inside them too, which makes music classification pretty complicated. Like London After Midnight seems to be in the first style with some rather notable stylistic diversions, but then you take a look at all the bands that took the LAM style and ran with it further and it starts to be a little bit debatable whether some of those bands still count as goth.

[@ademcanvaner2567]

Oh, Kelley, this is a fantastic and perfect video! The beauty about goth (one of them, I should say) is that the subgenres lean on each other quite a bit. Paralysed Age fall between darkwave and gothic rock, The Kentucky Vampires fall between gothic rock and death rock, Dead Can Dance fall between ethereal wave and post-punk, Corpus Delicti fall between post-punk and gothic rock, and The Mission flirted between gothic rock and new wave--not that I count new wave as goth; you understand what I am saying. Regarding some of the examples you mentioned, Clan of Xymox's sound changed drastically over time but always remained darkwave. Paralysed Age have always been gothic rock in my mind, but a little more atmospheric similar to how Pink Turns Blue became a little atmospheric in the 2000s yet remained post-punk. As for Twin Tribes and She Past Away, they blend a few styles (really well). Here is where I have noticed some differences in darkwave. Sometimes it is electronic sounding (think of Farewell and Notes from the Underground by Clan of Xymox) to where it seems to be leaning on industrial a little. Other times, it's not as electronic but very dark and has a blend of aggression and atmosphere (think Diva Destruction). And sometimes darkwave bands evolve into one from the other such as London After Midnight and Switchblade Symphony. Their debut albums were more the second style I'm describing, whereas their albums after that went far more electronic. I wonder if you've noticed that and what your opinion is. I wish you'd make a video like this about coldwave, please and thanks, if you want to. That's the style that I could never think of as a subgenre, but rather as the musical movement in France. To me, anything "coldwave" sounds either post-punk or darkwave! I'd love to be educated on that and to hear your perspective as well. Cheers! 🍻 🦇🦇🦇

[@CadaverKelly]

I definitely want to make a video about cold wave at some point. Cold wave also describes a goth and post punk movement in Eastern Europe. So, the term has different meanings depending on who you ask. It mostly seems to fall into post punk and wave sounds. The French style is very minimal post punk, but the Eastern European Sound seems to have more variety. So, if I make a video about cold wave in the future, it may be a tiny bit of music theory but mostly music movement history. The discussion on darkwave is a great example of how goth music evolves and creates new sounds that branch out of existing goth music. There’s a lot of variety and experimentation within darkwave, even amongst the two styles I laid out here. I made this video in part because lately I have found myself clarifying whether I’m talking about goth rock-based darkwave or post punk-based darkwave a lot. That variation in the rock elements seems to be the largest deviation I see in pure darkwave (discounting fusions like neoclassical, of course). It’s a really interesting category of music to pick apart! 🙂

[@ademcanvaner2567]

@@CadaverKelly That's why I have always seen subgenres as a mark of the genre's history, as well as the sound development. I appreciate you clarifying coldwave. Like I said, to me, it's always been inseparable from post-punk. I even read that Siouxsie and Bauhaus were classified as coldwave in France back then. Going back to darkwave, it's certainly a diverse subgenre and a great one. I wish there would be more neoclassical darkwave bands around. Azy and I talked about that not too long ago when I brought up a new neoclassical darkwave band to her attention.

[@blackraven5389]

@@CadaverKelly Well, In Eastern European country I live there was no such term as coldwave in 80s. Everything what do not sound like classic punk rock was called new wave, even Goth Rock (Term Goth was later connected to Gothic Metal, unfortunately). It was in a case for one famous coldwave act called polish Siekiera (The Axe) album "Nowa Aleksandria" (New Alexandria). Siekiera was rooted in punk subculture, same with 1984 band copying the Cure sound. Our coldwave bands usually have industrial names and imaginery, for example Factory Towers (Wieże Fabryk) or Hothouse (Cieplarnia). It faded in early 90s as Metal gained some popularity along with Punk Rock.

[@mohamadwalieddine371]

Recently, I've been getting into Darkwave/Coldwave. There's just something so appealing about the melodies in these songs.

[@dorym.tomaselli6739]

I do find these videos to be very insightful and informative. You break things down well so it is easier to understand. I am a fan of this genre as well so I was absorbing this like a sponge. 🕸️💀🦇

[@BlackBirdTokyo]

Very interesting. Our band was tagged Dark Wave in '94. Ninth Circle was an equal mix of electronic and dreamy guitars so maybe #2 category. But what was interesting was that Faith and Disease, Eau Vive and many other Seattle gothic community bands were also tagged with this. I think at the time people didn't know what to do with bands that were dreamier or 80's influenced. We didn't fit neatly into the rising industrial scene, but some of our music had heavy synths, and we didn't fit shoegazer because the gothic elements were so clear and undeniable. I am just happy to see this coming back as new bands explore it. Time for us to make a new album too. Thanks for covering this topic.

[@daisaigai7]

Dark Wave isn't a specific style. It includes every style of New Wave/Post-Punk music that is somehow "dark" and "eerie". Even pure Gothic Rock was called Dark Wave back then. No SynthPop at all. And Neoclassical stuff was Dark Wave, too. Also Dark Cabaret is a variant of Dark Wave of the '80s and '90s, although in those days it wasn't called Dark Cabaret. No SynthPop at all. Dark Wave describes a handful of different styles but it also can describe a mix between these styles (e.g. what you call Gothic Rock with SynthPop). Many people really have to understand that musical terms are heavily connected to regional scenes. For example the term Death Rock was rarely used in Western Europe. It was called Wave music. In France they called it Cold Wave, in Germany Dark Wave. The problem is that Dark Wave was never an US-American term until Sam Rosenthal used it for his record label. Here in Europe everything was connected to New Wave, which is also not a specific style. It can describe guitar music, it can describe electronic music, it can describe both as a mix..

[@abrahamsalgado4580]

Fantastic approach. I agree with your opinion about the fact that many styles normally has their own roots into regional scene, highly influenced by their social, cultural and political issues than the evolution of specific sound itself. The use of synths for example, corresponds to the origin of the device and its mass production making it affordable and usable as just as an "experiment". The weird thing is that in many years we haven't seen new styles emerge from the underground (at least for me). Styles like minimal wave, russian post punk, darkwave are just revivals and fusion with some other elements borrowed to each other.

[@TouchSonic4]

I think, it from US opinion explain , gothic rock, deathrock , gothic metal. 8090s In US has "No wave" American don't like dark wave So , a few band , called "dark cabaret" But dark cabaret not dark wave too For understand , listen English darkwave band, Neue Deutsche Härte, Coldwave, yugoslavia post punk band

[@ThreadBomb]

This post seems confused. Are you really saying that deathrock was called coldwave in France? They are more likely to have just called it punk. Yes, "dark wave" was a term used by some to describe dark music in general, but that was decades ago. Darkwave now refers to a specific style of music, and this is widely agreed upon..

[@Aurora2097]

Darkwave in Germany was even worse! They not only put Minimal synth and synthpop under that umbrella but some peeps also shove EBM and some industrial-dance into it! In the late 90ies they even tried to sell Futurepop, Synthrock, Dark Electro and crap like ASP and Blutengel under the moniker. Thankfully that mostly faded out and today Darkwave refers to some of the darker retro/80ies oriented groups and i'm happy with that so far.

[@80snostalgiafan79]

I love Dark wave 💜🖤

[@ant1bliss]

As someone geared towards Category 2, I always wondered why the Darkwave subgenre tag was so hit or miss (for my tastes). This video really helped me understand. Also, thank you for introducing me to Clan of Xymox. They are sick.

[@someguy9440]

Awesome vid! Over 50 here. Love all these bands mentioned and grew up idolizing them. Many of my music heroes are only ~10 yrs older than I am, while others like Iggy Pop are the age of my father. IMO newer acts like Drab Majesty and Night in Athens are no less goth than the seminal 80s bands like Sisters of Mercy or Clan of Xymox before them, both lifelong favorites. I never heard the Goth term until the 90s, and it was never mentioned without the Industrial counterpart in that era. This dual-label encompassed a really wide gamut music. Getting to the point: there's a reason that tag clouds won on social media over heirarchies of categories and sub-categories: they're too strict. You can't ever nail down the corner cases. But tags? Tags communicate succinctly. So we should treat genres like tags - not categories. The acts that stick to their own vision end up redefining genres because it's the art that attracts fans and endures in our hearts, not the label. cheers and subbed.

[@CadaverKelly]

@@someguy9440 I love this perspective! Tags are great for digital libraries but I need a system for my vinyl records. 😆 This is where I start sub-categorizing as the collection grows. There is definitely lots of overlap and grey areas in the genres.

[@BlackJar72]

I love it when you do this kind of video -- of everything you do on this channel they are by far my favorite. I guess its because while I've dabbled in music I don't usually analyze it or have the level of theory knowledge to do so on theory. Besides that I see these terms thrown around with little consistency and have seen meanings shift over time and between places. It's fascinating to see someone try to make sense of it and give an explanation for why which band or song is described as what.

[@johnghadimi]

I jumped in thinking this was about actual music theory.. :) BUT was pleasantly surprised and actually learnt a thing or two about genres. To us music geeks, the "theory" moniker has certain connotations.

[@gothanova]

Informative video. It's always good to hear what you have to say on music.

[@leonardcortez7963]

I need to check out some of these bands, Thanks Kelly!

[@jxfet.mp3]

I feel like Maeve teaching me how to darkwave. I loved it.

[@graijen]

Thank you for your interesting Video. I think there is a lot to debate, but at least the love to music, that connects us, is the most important thing 🖤

[@kvh1928]

That's awesome you got quoted in an article!!!

[@Boo-dc4zv]

I love your take on the subject. Having categories may help some new comers to the subculture really define the sounds they love and help grow their own taste for goth music. The more information out there, the better. Great video, best regards.

[@CadaverKelly]

Thank you!

[@antlessa7012]

Thanks Kelly Really interesting and didactic content! 😊

[@CircumlunarFeasibility]

Not my usual genres, i grew up on rock and metal, some rap, but two bands i have been enjoying are She Past Away and DIonnysuss

[@coffinpetals1985]

Cool video, I would have liked you to maybe have gone into the music theory side a little more - you do mention it a little, but some discussion of typical melodic and harmonic motifs would have been sweet. Also, would be cool to hear your thoughts on US darkwave like the Projekt roster, and it's relationship to European darkwave.

[@pachirisugirl7204]

Thank You for posting omg

[@trmancad7060]

Thank you and thanks to this video I’ve just subscribed

[@nickl.eakins3250]

Then you have Andrew Eldritch saying "I am not a Goth". Anyway, one advantage in having eclectic tastes is not necessarily having to define and pigeonhole music. Perhaps we can get your thoughts on Ethereal and Ethereal Wave.

[@ADevilFromHeaven]

Didn't a lot of "goths" say that? Sioxsie as well if I am not mistaken

[@austinitor]

@@ADevilFromHeaven and recently Daniel Ashe had some shit to talk on it. lol

[@kmfdm5]

Dark wave is also characterized by goth crossing over with 90s alternative movements such as shoegaze or with other post punk variants like coldwave or no wave.

[@paolobenmore3504]

It's interesting as back in the day it was called (post punk early 80's UK) dark wave then goth was termed and that is how it stayed and now I am hearing the dark wave term being revived which I thought was a better term but who cares as it's the music that counts.

[@distantstares]

I can feel the confusion about these genres when people ask what type of music I make 😅 I usually answer gothic rock coz in majority of my songs I use quite a lot distorted guitars, bass guitar not synth bass and my voice is on the lower side, like bands like Sisters of Mercy had. However, some of my songs are very synth heavy so I just tell people to listen and define it by themselves, I say its some type of goth music anyways 😅

[@SkyRimeheart]

Hi, Kelly! Video was super interesting to me as someone who doesn't identify with the Goth community. I've been working on piano arrangements of, what I consider to be, Darkwave music and I was surprised (in a good way) to hear more about the Goth side of the genre than the synth/EDM side. I spent a majority of my childhood and college years listening to various styles of EDM (Dubstep, European EDM. I was a teen in the 2010s). It wasn't until I found Purity Ring in college that I got into darker synth stuff; and even then, some of their content (Another Eternity) is still pretty atmospherically light as far as sound goes! I'm by no means outright saying Purity Ring is Darkwave, but they were like my gateway into this style of music I was completely unfamiliar with. Since then, I've been listening to a lot of Mr. Kitty, Crystal Castles, Crim3s, and Sidewalks and Skeletons; all of which, imo, touch on Darkwave and Ethereal Wave; So, personally I draw a distinction for Darkwave as a dark antithesis to Synthwave; Synthwave, meaning, the atmospherically light genre that takes inspiration from 80s synth music. A great example (for me) to highlight this contrast is "Dystopia Now" by Mental Minority. What's important to note immediately from the beginning of the song is the "wavy" synth in the bass line, the excerpt from George Orwell's 1984, and even the title of the song gives way to the dark atmosphere. Another song I consider Darkwave (well before its time) is "Maniac" by Michael Sembello, from the movie Flashdance. It shares the same "wavy" synth in the bass, the vocals are "augmented" or altered, and while the kick and snare are on 1/3 and 2/4 respectively, there's several other percussive elements going on throughout the piece that makes "Maniac" feel, well, maniacal, desperate, and driven. I don't know if anyone will see this comment or read it. I just wanted to share my thoughts (not to debate) and experiences with music.

[@michaelthompson9540]

Awesome video. Honestly I just love music, all of it. The problem with genres is they define, yet they also limit.

[@robertmunroe9635]

Drab majesty is neat. The guy is also a drummer for a post punk band with Emma Ruth Rundle. Emma is also not goth but dark with her music. And then someone who I still have no idea about is Chelsea Wolfe. Not goth* but equally as dark with her music. *she’s debated a lot so I don’t really know

[@RichardCranium.]

Good video. I really like Dead Can Dance . They are considered neoclassical darkwave. I don't listen to any darkwave apart from them and this video helped me understand darkwave more.

[@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396]

Aren’t they Ethereal too?

[@RichardCranium.]

@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396 Yeah, I think they are ethereal neoclassical darkwave

[@danvsjeep8062]

I used to be a guitar player. I sucked. I got into bass a few years ago. Ended up in a band recently. I am trying to creep darkwave into our experimental punk band (thats what they want to do). And it is working. None of us really know how to play genres too well. But when I bust out Molchat Doma or Desmond Doom on Bass. It seems to work well.

[@Bluethrottle]

Dark wave does exactly what it says originally a synth pop side show most famous by Clan of Xymox, the damned ( later work ) sisters of mercy however nowadays, it tends heavily upon the original EBM ( electronic body music ) so more synth pop than the rock originally and sometimes Depeche mode and some other bands like Talk talk are coming eerily close

[@FemalemiIker]

Mareux took darkwave on the next level. Mareux - killer is the best darkwave music i have ever listened too. I feel in love with darkwave and i think the future is very bright and interesting with new artists. I predict darkwave will take over soon.

[@SecretSocietyofGoths]

love that necklace!

[@穹森]

Hey! 😄I’m a fan from China and I absolutely love your video! I was wondering if it’s cool for me to translate it into Chinese and share it on "Bilibili"? I’ll make sure to give you full credit and link back to the original. Your video is just amazing!

[@CadaverKelly]

@@穹森 Thank you for watching! You can absolutely translate it and post it. Thanks for asking. 😊

[@chloerussell1490]

This was really interesting!

[@DJSTOEK]

🖤

[@cvrkku]

Been listening to Darkwave for ages but it's so nice to see an educational video about it ! The categories you use are really well-thought and helpful, it can be hard for newcomers to understand how 2 bands with a really different approach can both be labelled darkwave. I wonder how you would categorise neoclassical darkwave tho. Should it be cat #3 or a sub-subgenre of Cat #1 ?

[@lil_weasel219]

If you haven't id love to see a video on Cold Wave too. From what ive seen this term can refer to sevear sounds that arent necessarily taxonomically related, as in part of the same branch, but im not sure. Like, i wouldnt necessarily count Lebanon Hanover, Kalte Nacht and OTO as all the same thing (?). Yet they are all called explicitly just cold wave. Minimal wave is a much more complicated entity that seems to feature a mixture of genres; cold wave, EBM, synthpop/electropop, dark wave, etc. And certainly minimal wave is booming right now. Butch its as i say imo a very syncretic entity

[@rafiqputera]

apparently darkwave is categorised as dark post punk in Spotify so it's kinda sad my favourite subgenre is not on there

[@СергейСвященников]

And what about the 3-d cathegory? The german bands like Das Ich, early Lacrimosa, Sopor Aeternus and Illuminate, which mixed electro-industrial, classical, folk music and goth rock...

[@pryingeyes1551]

Both Das Ich and Sopor Aeternus, interestingly enough, were both called Neue Deutsche Todeskunst (new german death art) But yes, she's not addressing the industrial-heavy style of Darkwave, which, until bands like She Past Away came into being, had come to dominate the scene. Even Clan of Xymox, which she mentioned, started out as dark new wave, then became more traditionally gothic, then mainstream dance music for a bit, before becoming a mixture of gothic rock, synthpop, and electro-industrial.

[@ajohnsonstudio]

Very helpful video! I'm making some synthwave-adjacent music and trying to figure out how else to tag it...

[@that1sidekick]

this has been helpful, thank you

[@scarecrow7313]

I'm a big fan Darkewave and especially a Massive fan of early 90s dark dance music. dark early 90s dance. Eg D.O.P LION, Moon child Variations on a theme (VAOT), Housepimp Take the hook, or Natural high Worp 69 (A track, I beleave is inspired by New order's Blue monday). the Asylum dance club (Dublin 1993-1994) and mixes by Dj Pressure for example. Is a good example of dark or you could define Gothic and somwhat 1980s horror inspired sounding electronic dance music.And listening to Darkwave, you can hear the Dark electronic mood that inspired dark 90s electronic music. R&S records is a good place to start if you like dark rave. Darkwave bands eg... She passed away, T21 and New order with 1980s Horror like electronic elements.

[@janetnazi]

I love him, I see you from Mexico, there are no good videos here, they just try to pretend ... I love your style so real🖤

[@00REEEEE]

KIrlian Camera first Darkwave Band back in 1981.

[@GShumway132]

She's so smart. I just classify it all as either Goth Rock or Industrial.

[@TommenIBaratheon]

I needed this. Ty. Subbed

[@nym053]

And then there're those artists who also uses industrial and EBM elements. Quite often there will be remixes of goth, darkwave, post punk/rock from artist doing industrial, EBM and Industrial techno. Also the use of surf rock, spaghetti western sounds and dub mixing is not uncommon it seems. It all ties together, which is quite interesting.

[@Thazo79]

Doesn't the dark spaghetti western sound fall under the sub-genre of Gothic-Country? It is a terrible name for a sub-genre and needs a more clever term.

[@FrogknightAk47]

I always thought darkwave was coldwave but without that post punk / icy chorus guitar sound and focused more on repeated heavy bass.

[@milannikolic1098]

I fell in love with this video 😍🥰

[@billucf96]

Excellent explanation. People shouldn't get bent over where to draw the blurry lines.

[@Aurora2097]

Genres have different Connotations in every country, or even region! Deathrock was mostly a californian term, Germany had "Depro-Punk", the UK "Positive-Punk" "Batcave" and "Gothic". I always thought "Darkwave" was mostly a german term too... other obscure terms were "Doom and Gloom", "Doom-wave", "Doom punk", "Suicide-Punk", "Scare-Punk" "Depro-pop", "Dark Romantic", "Coldwave" (mostly a french thing). It's kind of weird to make any sense of all these today. I always took "Darkwave" just as "Dark New Wave" stuff, New Wave already being a very broad term. It could be pretty much anything from Visage to the Cure to Depeche Mode Anne Clark or Tuxedomoon. And possibly even Bauhaus, Siouxsie, Jou Division or X-mal depending on who you ask!

[@Thazo79]

"Deathrock was mostly a californian term". Thank you. This has always been my understanding. Death Rock is just Goth Rock, with a local California flavor surrounding the bands that were circulating at that time. This is in the same way I view Coldwave, as a French(derived, local flavor) version of Darkwave. I think in the end it just depends on if you are a lumper or a divider. Do you prefer your genres to have a wider expression and thus include more varieties in it, or do you like those definitions to be more narrow and thus constantly sub-divide those genres into more and more classifications as new bands rift off a familiar scene but adding their own a unique take on it..from which other bands expand on that?

[@Aurora2097]

American Goth Punk, maybe. Darkwave can even be MORE complicated, because at one point there was an influx from industrial dance and some Postpunk and Gothic Rock bands started developing towards styles that would be called Neofolk or Neoclassic and Ethereal, and people would ALSO include these under the Darkwave umbrella too. So now Darkwave can also be anything from death in June to Dead Can Dance or Cocteau twins. Then we have the NDT -Neue deutsche Todeskunst (New German Death Art) a german only thing these bands sang german only and often surrealist, absurdist or dark romantic lyrics to music that could incorporate elements of Post Industrial, Industrial Dance, Neoclassic, Neofolk, Goth Rock, electronica, symphonic music, cabaret, medieval music AND heavy metal. NDT was also,STILL referred to as Darkwave as it's early 90ies child. So now we have a spectrum of Darkwave reaching from Sopor Aeternus to Lacrimosa and from das Ich to Goethes Erben, Endraum and Umbra et Imago or Untoten.

[@NullFX]

Came here for some tips for darkwave and accidentally learned about the Dewey Decimal System too.

[@-RONNIE]

Nice video Kelly 👏👏👏

[@psylentsage]

My only question is how would the goth community react to a solo artist performance like hiphop? I could form a band but I have solo songs using beats from different producers that are European being US based it’d be impossible to perform with them. Should I just get fill in players for live shows or Go solo?

[@jasonledyard3523]

As for the history of the term, it was used sloppily in the late 80s and through the 90s by bands and fans as a synonym for Goth, much as Death Rock was also at the time. There were so many goth bands without keyboards using it then, like Requiem in White, Judith and Sofia Run. There was also a famous weekly Goth club called Darkwave in NYC at the start of the 90s that didn't focus on electronic elements at all. The newer meaning of Darkwave being a subgenre of goth with an electronic slant, like Clan of Xymox, took a lot of time and work by DJs and promoters to cement because of all of this. As for today, the fake-post-punk-minimal Hipsterwave music comes from a different origin and tradition, and as such it is too sonically dissimilar to call Goth or Darkwave, even though it's being pushed for acceptance everywhere.

[@daisaigai7]

Exactly. The term appeared in the mid-'80s as a description for bands that played Gothic Rock and related stuff. Short and simple. In those days, there was no World Wide Web as we know it today. Regional scenes were more isolated. This situation made it easy for bands, labels and distributors to coin different genre terms with (almost) the same meaning.

[@JimJWalker]

I think you are correct, the differences in Darkwave could be because of the engineer/producer and not the band. A perfect example is if Martin Hannett had not been involved with "Unknown Pleasures". What if it was just a vanilla punk record that the band wanted and not the epic cold and dark record it is.

[@daisaigai7]

Guys like Martin Hannet and Chris Nagle also produced several Indie Rock bands. That's why some Indie Rock tunes include post-punk-related guitar lines. For example Chimera from Ireland. *watch?v=mqPOJjYvCd8*

[@ThreadBomb]

Hannett's influence on JD is overrated. He didn't write the songs.

[@wanderingskeleton52]

@Cadaver Kelly Thoughts on HIM and Ville Valo's solo band that started in 2020? Thanks 😊

[@pessimistium5507]

What would you categorise Molchat Doma?

[@reifstar]

I love you ❤ for this video …

[@rogerbarrett1979]

I discovered darkwave music. I discovered that in the late 2010s. One of the groups of that genre I discovered was a neoclassical darkwave duo Midnight Syndicate, who had one song called "Grisly Reminder". I think it's a great genre of music! I'm into darkwave more than any other type of music lately. It helps me with my depression.

[@ronny-2112]

Good video I love most Darkwave bands. As I get older I stopped putting attention about the musical labels, I just enjoy the music... I was thinking Category #3: Neoclassical Darkwave, Dark Folk, that are based on Classical Gothic compositions on minor keys. Category #4: Ethereal Wave, but this could belongs better into the Dream Pop subgenre and even the Nugaze style coming from Shoegaze, but most Goths are not into Shoegaze.

[@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396]

Finally, Ethereal is mentioned. I thought Ethereal covered many of these genres already. I love Gothic Folk and Shoegaze. I even liked Witch House bands like Purity Ring. But who doesn’t like My Bloody Valentine?

[@Thazo79]

@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396 I love Dark folk(NeoFolk/Post-Apocalyptic Industrial Folk Rock, etc) amongst other dark folk sounds. But also since Ethereal was mentioned... I've also always wondered where BTFABG fits in. I'm a huge fan of Black Tape For A Blue Girl, but in spite of Sam Rosenthal, I would not considerate that "DarkWave" at all. Its dark, but not Darkwave in my opinion. I just through it into Ethereal Wave, but not sure if that is correct. What say you?

[@Anton_the_Vampire]

Thanks for the informative video. I'm relatively new to Goth music & still trying to find my niche, as it were. My problem is that I'm not very attracted to most of what I've heard. I generally prefer instrumental music & wonder if you could make some recommendations.

[@gaseki]

To me the first band I heard I would class as darkwave would be Deine Lakaien, as I think Diary of Dreams could be classed as goth rock side of darkwave in your classification.

[@DarkturtleX]

My favorite darkwave is from the yugoslavia underground scene.

[@BethJehovah]

I've seen dark eerie synthpop called darkwave by a elder goth. Like Frozen Autumn's "Is everything real". No guitar just dark synth and ghostly vocals. Which another goth music theory guy calls goth minimal wave.

[@danielgeiger7739]

Like the discussion. Without reading up on it, I found the same two camps. For me main axis (PC1) is with the throaty goth vocals present or absent, but even there is a sliding scale. I'm not too hung up on genre labels either, and it depends even on the particular song one listens to. I rather stick with main genre labels and modify with adjectives/hyphens to indicate range or potential personal impressions (e.g., synth-heavy gothy darkwave with a touch of industrial beats). Cross-overs to industrial/EBM with real hard beats is yet another axis (say SilentEM). And then there is coldwave ... haven't found a good distinction between dark and cold wave, distinction seems even more tenuous.

[@bobcabot]

Doctress of Music are you! ( always intriguing how we are forced (by nature) to put a style into a genre...

[@brostenen]

The man with the x-ray eyes, by Bauhaus, are one of the songs I really like. Perfekt drums. But were can it be placed? What genre? Normally I am into other genres. Like Electric Wizard. But no shame in loving songs from other genres.

[@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396]

So, how is the Bauhaus Dub stuff like She’s In Parties classified? It is defiantly reggae inspired.

[@brostenen]

@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396 It is ok, but not my personal favorite.

[@Aluenvey]

Do you know which minor scale is mainly used? I tend to mainly use Mixolydian, but darkened considerably with Locrian mode.

[@Tobi-oi3uf]

Thanks!

[@Amalkavs]

Darkwave is my very best fav! pls name some darkwave new bands for me here you guys!

[@raevenrises7595]

Do instrumental artists like Perturbator, Carpenter Brut, and Dance with the Dead count as darkwave?

[@Prod_ven]

I personally would not consider them as such.

[@ivanfsc2006]

Perturbator hace Synthwave

[@puncturespike]

Great video first thing I thought of was Sister of Mercy so precursor to backbone on the DNA of darkwave would also include Bowie and Peter Murphy, joy division, Cabaret Voltaire. Interesting So, second dark wave with synthpop what would be your take on bands like Kosheen, 2000 on. Seems interesting, I too would like too read your history on genre. Would you take on Dead Can Dance (world/goth) hard to label a genre.

[@Jaynevermore319]

I think of it as all darkwave, but either way, I love it!

[@DeeL-g2w]

Legendary Pink Dots was OG darkwave :)

[@Dyeguy117]

Hello, I just found your channel. I’m really new to this style of music and just looking for some bands to continue my journey and you definitely sound like a person that knows what’s what. I very much enjoy She Wants Revenge and I recently found Molchat Doma, looking for other bands, and I would prefer a band that sings in English and more recent rather than an old band (79/80/90s) Curious on your thoughts of what I should listen to ☺️ Thanks in advance.

[@V4tik4]

and what would Drab Majesty be then? Maybe just synthpop?

[@CadaverKelly]

My opinion is it varies by track. I would personally call some their music darkwave, some a little more synthpop, and some touching on shoegaze. There’s some overlap and grey area between darkwave and synthpop.

[@V4tik4]

@@CadaverKelly thank you for your reply! Do you know Red Flag? They started as a plain synthpop band and then evolved as a much darker band. I adore them and always wish there was someone who would make a video of them…

[@CadaverKelly]

@@V4tik4 not yet but I’ll check them out! 🙂

[@V4tik4]

@@CadaverKelly please check albums like The Crypt, Fear of a Red Planet and The Bitter End 😍

[@ludochem]

I might have missed it but your not mentioning industrial music in your expose. the way i personally see things is "early 80s synth pop" evolved into a harsher and less melodic sound through the 80's, especially in the club scene. Xymox were very much in between the two tendancies (melodic and emphasis on drum machines). I would even consider mid 80's depeche mode to be an industrial-pop crossover as well, for example. The roots of darkwave seem to me very hard to pinpoint though it s clear it s rooted in that time period. When techno/house came in the late 80s , it more or less killed the "dark and moody" trend. Technology was evolving fast around that time thanks to (or because of!!!) computers. and there was still a race between bands for being at the avant-garde of technology. In that context in the 90s, Xymox as a band was very much in limbo. They had a spectacular re-birth in the late 90s focusing on what they did the best (probably the album "medusa") and emulating it , nearly as a nostalgia band. Darkwave is a relatively new term to classify a music that have developped a lot in the last 15 years with the revival of postpunk/goth. I consider it very much as a revival genre, kind of taking back the story in the mid 80s and imagining how the music would have evolved, maybe in a more organic way, focusing more on the mood of the music than the technology ( the only rule of the genre would be to have a good dose of synth and electronic drums). That s why the genre is quite diverse as every band have their own influences. That s the way i see things anyway. Modern in sound, but quite nostalgic in feel.

[@chrisroditis]

Very thorough and informative! Can you please lend your expertise to help me categorize a new artist called "Skauss" and his song "Father" (it's on KZbin) ? Is it Darkwave or something more specific? Does it sound like any other artists?

[@rockomcdagger6364]

Would Actors be Category 2?

[@TouchSonic4]

Category 1 synthpop ,coldwave ( england , france) Category 2 post- punk ( england, east eu, yugoslavia, russia ) Category 3 industrial music ( germany ,Neue Deutsche Härte , east euro) Category 4 dark cabaret in No Wave , New York

[@anacaeiro1049]

What about witchouse and hardwave , do you like it?

[@Teddyisoffline]

Does electro punk/synth punk fit into this

[@calirose6151]

hey. love yoyur video . what about boy harsher?

[@miketb1010]

and this fight has been going on forever, going to back to the first album of The Velvet Underground to the early and later days of Cabaret Voltaire (was their early sound goth? post punk?) to lydia Lunch and Foetus, Ministry ( post New World Order) to Youth Code now all the way up to bands like Ash Code., etc..it's a never ending debate although i do feel with some darkwave bands, if you take away their sound, their look is sooo "Indie rock" , in a sense , no where even close to the goth asthetic..that, should be the bigger debate..lol

[@histatimaniples]

Isn’t goth a punk byproduct or does she mean death rock?

[@Tsja6933]

Hello there, This is my new 2020 album: Revival Rockstar '2026' About a misunderstood priest who tries to convince his audience, but in vain. So his new strategy is to disguise himself with his cloak as a Rockstar to get his messages about the Laws of the Universe across to his new audience. So he can address issues like The Cycle of the Soul, and Astral kiss. (Two tracks on the album) My first solo album Electro Glam Goth Rock Star (WAT) is from 2005. fifteen years ago and still sold worldwide only on CD. Before that I was performing and recording with my band Claw Boys Claw 1983-1989. During that period I performed also with Patricia Morrison on stage (Sisters of Mercy, The Damned) and Nick Cave, and Clan of Xymox as double bill. We toured Europe for many years. Headlining festivals with The Cure and The Cult. Two of our albums recently voted in the top 80 best Dutch albums ever recorded. And best live band ever. Anyway enough bragging. Here is something I'd love for you to enjoy. I put years and years of dedicated work in it. Rewriting, developing skills along the way. hiding Easter eggs etc. There is always room for improvement, but here it is and I'm pretty proud: Revival Rockstar. please enjoy and awake. '2026'open.spotify.com/artist/7LmAmUehjcB8YwSFjvwAn7

[@ashgonza92]

I thought Lust for Youth was a goth band just by their sound but when i saw them i was so surprised to see them dressed like average British soccer fans

[@FdL1974]

Great video...finally!l! Its called DarkWave..yes Darkwave.ask Robert Simth ,Souxie Sioux, , Professor Avalanche or Xymox....i know cause my GF was a Darka / Darkwaver ....back in the days!!!.. Example ...listen to Pornography album ( The Cure ) one of the best DARKwave sounds by them..so dark, cold, depressing , melancholic et al.

[@lizziewicked]

Honestly, I was expecting more music theory, as based on the thumbnail

[@somekindofdude1130]

I think you’ll like dark cabaret music