she was dead all along(AHS, The Haunting of Hill House, and The Others)

[@cainvarner]

someone just pointed out to me that Hill House’s flashbacks take place in 1992, for some reason in my head they were set in the late 80’s and that’s what i went with in my script 😭

[@TheSCPStudio]

Probably should, you know, look into the media that you’re making content for?

[@luxxnation4eva]

@@TheSCPStudio is it, you know, that serious? :/

[@moltennoodle]

⁠@@TheSCPStudioit’s a simple mistake, people make mistakes all the time

[@Kazooples]

@@TheSCPStudiodon’t be rude, I’ve watched Hill House 12 times and I also thought it was in the 80s because of the E.T. lunchbox cameo

[@fooodie88]

The 80´s have been proven to at least last to 1994 anyway :P

[@lipstickgamer6580]

The bent neck lady twist was such a gag, I remember screaming at my TV in anguish and I don’t think I’ve been as affected by a twist in media ever since

[@Leechington]

Big same, I’ll never recover

[@courtkendell]

truly same. it was truly one of those “NOOOOO” moments for me.

[@thewrathfullloner]

Yeah that twist really caught me off guard

[@123aimee4]

would do anything to rewatch hill house for the first time again 😭

[@angelawilson1633]

Yes great show

[@Sel-dl4rm]

Came to comment the exact same thing

[@captaink3944]

I would absolutely watch a retrospective on Haunting of Hill House! It is my favorite piece of horror media, hands down. Its the perfect example of how horror stories can be used to talk about trauma, family trauma in particular, and the horror of being human. It's an incredibly strong and intricate character study that had me weeping multiple times throughout. I'm also obsessed with haunted houses and they absolutely nailed that too. It's an incredible piece of art through and through. Its also interesting to compare it to the original short story, to see how they differ and how they spun the themes and imagery of the original story in new directions. It's also so gratifying to see how much of the best writing in the show is taken directly from shirley jacksons words. She was an incredible writer. Obsessed, obsessed, forever a fan

[@JustToSaveYou]

The way you compared Hill House and Murder House made me understand why I didn't care for the rest of AHS after the first season.

[@bradharrah3339]

Agreed. The other seasons are interesting enough...but they often just do too much, and it's all so rushed and forced. Maybe Murder House was fresh because it was first? Hill House took me to a bleak sadness that was so powerful.

[@nothisismyhandle]

So you like houses!

[@bradharrah3339]

@@nothisismyhandle I haven't watched the second Haunting (Bly Manor) season...

[@bradharrah3339]

@@nothisismyhandle he house represents their world/reality. I liked the dynamics of the people discovering and confronting the situation.

[@trinitytapp9780]

season 5 of ahs was relatively similar!

[@Lilylaina]

I'm surprised you didn't mention Hannah from Bly Manor, as for me that was the use of the trope that impacted me the most, personally.

[@cainvarner]

it was good but i preferred to just talk about the first season.

[@Lilylaina]

@@cainvarner that’s fair, Hill House definitely fits the horror trope more to match AHS

[@narfii7302]

I’m absolutely loving the addition of video essays alongside the recaps! I’m so down for a Haunting of Hill House deep dive, you could talk for days about it and still discover new things about it!

[@AsterisSleeping]

I'm so glad people still remember The Others. It came out when I was in first grade and I remember my mom renting it on OnDemand through our cable provider a few years later. The twist was so good, so well done and I feel like there weren't a lot of hints at it. Also it is still BEAUTIFUL to this day. Like the cinematography and costuming is stunning.

[@cainvarner]

I watched it in 2020 and only liked it but i rewatched it in preparation for this video and it was SO visually stunning like the camerawork and set design and costuming particularly blew me away AS WELL as sound design. all impeccable upon a rewatch

[@Vexindra]

When I first watched the Haunting at Hill House the reveal of the broken neck lady shook me in the best way. It's such an awesome series

[@danimcleanauthor]

Hill House is phenomenal. Luke, Nell and Theo's storylines in Hill House broke my heart. The scene of Luke in the basement while noone can get to him will chill me forever. How anyone slept after filming that I'll never know. Also I know Steve is bad, but I hate Shirley more.

[@cainvarner]

shirley and steven are both horrible i cannot choose a worse duo from the show😭

[@v.mcdonald7875]

The "dead all along' twist was also used in the movie Carnival of Souls, which was made on the 1960's.

[@cuddle_fish1058]

The first time a paragraph was on the screen long enough for me to actually read it. Good on you, mr. KZbinr sir.

[@ilovestarwarsalot]

i’d love to see a full haunting breakdown! it’s one of my fav shows, and i know you’d do it justice :)

[@macdaniels9887]

Yes please, if and when your ready for it you've been putting out videos like crazy and we are so here for it!

[@EarthymoonPhotos]

OMG , The Others is the only movie where the twist caught me by surprise. When I saw the title of this I hoped you'd talk about that. It's one of my favorite movies.

[@cainvarner]

it’s such a great film!!

[@macdaniels9887]

I was actually just watching a breakdown of haunting of hill house, such a good concept. I love your style of videos and the pacing you have, and the inflections, not being monotone or low energy through the video is literally what keeps me on every time from any other breakdown or video essay

[@kandyjo]

Please do Hill House and Bly Manor! Midnight Mass is my fave, but it’s sorta like how Sweeney is my fave musical of all time but I’m still mostly gonna listen to Into the Woods and Little Night Music. I come back to HH and Bly Manor a lot, and they get better everytime.

[@rowlaanbennett7296]

I don’t know for some reason I can’t get into Midnight Mass. I’ve tried countless times but nothing really can catch me

[@delta13-98]

@@rowlaanbennett7296 Midnight Mass is AMAZING! It took me a minute to get into it too but boy was it worth it in the end

[@kandyjo]

@@rowlaanbennett7296 Absolutely not everyone's cup of tea. I have religious trauma in my background so MM really hits in a particular way. ALSO!! I'm just realizing that Mke Flanagan has done a "dead all along" in all three of those series. @cainvarner please do a part two of "dead all along/part of the way through" on Bly Manor and Midnight Mass! They both do them so brilliantly!

[@rowlaanbennett7296]

@@kandyjo yeah imma horror fan but I don’t like to play alot when it comes to religion

[@rowlaanbennett7296]

@@delta13-98 I’ve only caught portions, like the Guy having visions of the girl he accidentally killed, the pregnant woman’s baby disappearing and a preacher making a paraplegic girl walk

[@KimsLantern]

I had an actual emotional breakdown after the episode ended after we saw who the Bent Neck Lady was. The Haunting of Hill House is one of the most scariest things I’ve ever seen in my life.

[@esther7976]

hill house was so beautifully haunting 🖤 one of the best series i’ve had the pleasure of watching. major props to everyone involved

[@litneyloxan]

Watching Haunting of Hill House brought out my unresolved grief and led to years of finally working through it. It brought me to a level and depth of sadness I'd never been to before and ended up being really cathartic after finally dealing with it all.

[@morigahn]

The Others legit scared me and i still love the movie! Please do recaps of Bly and Hill, I'm loving this video. Some tropes work well, the "already dead" trope is great when used correctly. Sixth Sense was ruined for me too, knew the twist before i watched it.

[@brandyjean7015]

I just watched an old horror film from 1958 last eve: Terror in the Haunted House, originally released as My World Dies Screaming. Much like your poor TV therapist; a husband brings his wife back to the scene of her childhood trauma, to solve his family's mysterious past. An amazing amount of screaming from one character.

[@naudiamartin2798]

i’m obsessed with the haunting of bly manor omg please 😭

[@kristlynseamon7291]

Omg a retrospective of both shows would be amazing!

[@Diana-yw8wm]

loooooooved this video and i love this trope!! hill house is one of my favorite shows of all time 🖤

[@dazedork]

I would absolutely LOVE your deep dive in Hill House its my fave piece from Flanagan's works!!!

[@NooralainMirza]

I love AHS but Hill house is fantastic it’s one of my favourite by far and I need them to release much more. Victoria Pedretti is a modern day scream queen.

[@cynderhazelworth4467]

Haunting of hill house is such a beautiful allegory for depression. I personally do like bly manor a teeny bit more, but just both just fantastic shows

[@locrpg]

Yaaaaaaas. Give us your takes on both!!!!! Also, I know I'd love more of this kind of trope comparison in general. One of the things I like about you as a creator is how you draw parallels and make connections I didn't.

[@governmentcheese3350]

I absolutely LOVE this style of video essay content from you!!! The recaps are a staple, but I appreciate the variety❤

[@catiebeans]

Yet again another phenomenal video, Cain! Some of my favorites all in one video, expertly thematically weaved together, and in a thought provoking way… like damn!! Thank you for being you! 💖

[@teamfwupa]

I really liked the essay style of this video. I love your explanation videos, but I’m happy to see you expanding into new styles. I hope your are following your creative fulfillment ❤

[@daniellecuellar7560]

I really enjoy your videos and would love a series for this as well as Bly manor

[@yunabrooks]

This was so much fun and just as interesting! I love this type of video of yours! ❤

[@rubyatkins4082]

Hill house will always make me weep I love it so much and would be so happy to watch either

[@cynniecyn]

This is a great video, Cain! Your explanations discussing the trope and how each series approached it? Top notch :)) Happy Halloween!

[@harmonygibbs7904]

I would absolutely watch a deep dive video. One thing about both Hill House and Bly is the amazing camera work. the music really helps with the feeling but some of the camera work was so beautiful and impactful. Someone told me that if i like that stuff i should watch The Knick so i'll be going through that this weekend. Anyway, thank you for a great video. i loved the comparisons on how this trope was used in the past.

[@Alizvok]

This trope is so overused in horror video games its actually crazy. Great video!

[@jadachristian5806]

we are sooooo back

[@carolinegreene3507]

Yessss love hill house it’s my favorite still makes me cry every time

[@blakeyquakey]

slayyyyyy i can’t get enough hill house content

[@fancifulplaguerat]

I recently found your channel through your AHS decline video, and I really appreciate your vids! I feel too many "video essayists" simply summarize, but you provide actual analysis that is engaging to watch. I also loved the twist in The Others (I'm obsessed with that movie bc of the end), so I appreciated that being brought up here. Thanks again for sharing!

[@ashvander7864]

this was a really good video!!! i've always loved AHS but now i know that i've GOT to check out Hill House too!!! hope you're doing well and taking care of yourself!!!! can't wait to see more content but take your time of course!!! i'll always wait longer for better content!!

[@cainvarner]

hill house is a MUST

[@oliviathompson8633]

Yall have grown into some amazing and beautiful women. Im so sorry yall had to experience so much pain and trauma at a young age. I thank God this allowed yall to grow closer to him although the circumstances were bad. Much love sent! ❤️

[@Ambwosia]

i really do think you should write a video on each of the crain siblings. definitely something i would watch!!

[@corvuscrux]

I'm so happy people are finally talking about The Others

[@lindseystein9676]

I loved it when it came out. I was definitely too young to watch it, but I was always surprised it wasn’t a more popular movie. The reveal is so good

[@lithiumting6152]

Such a underrated classic

[@Capszuleh]

You forgot uninvited but its the sister who went mad and still sees her sister. Such a good movie.

[@cainvarner]

i didn’t gave time to cover every single time it was used so i figured 5 was enough…

[@Capszuleh]

@@cainvarner all gud just reminiscing

[@b.castilho4011]

People really need to rediscover The Others, it has such a nice classic gothic horror vibe to it that any fan of Flanagan will dig (in case they haven’t seen it yet) A similar one, yet much more horror than psychological but still a love letter to gothic horror, is Del Toro’s Crimson Peak.

[@fuzziemonkie437]

loved this video!! would love to see you talk about each of the siblings in hill house~

[@bunnyskye7593]

This was amazing!!! Great job Cain!

[@LeXyStAr77]

The Sixth Sense twist was spoiled for me while sitting in class. I was super sad.

[@skyla08l]

I personally like to include Flanagan’s ‘The fall of the house of Usher’ as part of the haunting anthology :)

[@cainvarner]

it’s not tho…to my knowledge

[@caitlinjones5984]

Yes, please do breakdowns of Flanagan's Haunting series!

[@seabiscuitkitten]

this was amazingly well done!

[@very_nervous133]

Happy Halloween to you too!!!

[@kryptkrawler7859]

please do a full hill house character essay i would loveeee that!!

[@oliviyeves]

I rewatch Nellie's episode all the time. For me the whole show is just that one episode. Nothing after that matters.

[@MeredithHagan]

You could have also included 2017’s Marrowbone. It has a slightly different twist but could be included in the “dead all along” trope.

[@beanrenee4826]

PLEASE do a haunting series !!!!

[@recondinent2]

Fine, maybe i'll watch Hill House...

[@nikkicoleman6709]

Love this video, love you! 💙

[@lindseystein9676]

Since I was little I’ve always wanted to know what exactly would be in the handbook for the recently deceased. Alec baldwin’s character says it’s written like stereo instructions and that sounds so interesting lol.

[@Twist3dDisast3r]

I would love a hill house deep dive from you

[@EhDemeter]

PLEASE do a full retrosepctive! I would love to watch it.

[@coreyboy1118]

Carnival of Souls (1962) A group of friends drive off a bridge into a lake and only one girl survived. Or so she thought. Turns out she was dead all along 😮

[@eshedyson6458]

Great video! 👍🏾❤

[@KatieLHall-fy1hw]

Can you do Midnight Mass next? That show was mad depressing

[@SXJAYSX]

Honestly one of my favorite scenes from hill house if when the sister that can tell things by touch touches Nell's corpse couse she wanted to understand. We then see her acting a lil off in the funeral and just assume that it's normal sadness but when she explains why she kissed the others sister's husband she says it's like she was in a raft alone at sea and there was no way out and she jumped at any chance or light to get out. To me that wasn't a reference to touching a dead body but more like she finally understood what Nell's depression felt like. Throughout the show we saw the touching sister be pretty dismissive of Nell's feelings (tracks for the one building walls to try to be strong) and pissed what Nell killed herself saying why would she do this she knew better etc But when she touched her I think what she got is what Nell dealt with for most of her life. Her depression and mental state. Then she finally really understood.

[@sleepypeachie]

they hit the pentagon omfg!!!

[@fpeconcepcionmonteverde3913]

LOVED THIS VIDEO

[@catiebeans]

Happy Halloween to all the witches, goblins, and monsters! 🎃🖤😈

[@kamrynrivera6689]

I saw in another video one of the first instances of this was in the twilight zone

[@neivilde.1242]

big fan of the thumbnail

[@cainvarner]

thank you!! i even gagged myself a bit

[@jouxlskaard]

yayyyy new cainvarner horror video dropped!!!!

[@jouxlskaard]

i’ve never seen the haunting of hill house/bly manor but going off of how much i’ve enjoyed your ahs recaps where (imo) the source material is often less appealing to me, i suspect i would have a delightful time with those

[@mcallister..b8891]

With Haunting of hill house people are so harsh with Steve as if all the other kids dont have major character flaws because of the trauma they experienced he was a good helpful big brother but the house corrupted him too in a way so that after his way of helping his siblings and loved ones became tainted but somehow everyone else gets a pass its weird

[@JosefinaQB]

to me lilia from agatha all along now applies to this trope as well, at least thats the same tragic feelings

[@cainvarner]

wait people actually still take marvel seriously? i had thought it was flopping for the last 6 years or something. i actually haven’t seen someone praise those films in ages 😭

[@JosefinaQB]

@ I know marvel is trash I know I just like to watch it anyway- but bro, this new Agatha show? Idk maybe some ppl might still say marvel trash but it’s the best trash they’ve put out in a while since Wanda vision idk, maybe just an opinion but- If anything, more specifically, the character Lilia played by Patti Lupone to come out of this Agatha series- SHE is the best thing to come out of marvel since a long ass while. Fucking amazing idk,

[@pisketti]

Poor Nell dude

[@missmichelle652]

Please do a hillhouse episode!

[@notsure9802]

I'm 4 minutes in and i just need to point out that in Beetlejuice the fact that the Maitlens are dead is not a twist. It's part of the whole plot, how they navigate being dead and not being able to leave the house and so they have to decide how to exist in their afterlife. In my understanding a twist is something that is discovered in the last thirth or fourth part of the movie. Where you have been lead to believe something throughout the whole movie only to find its something else. Knowing the Maitlens were dead was in the actual trailer for the original movie. It was never a surprise therefore not a twist. I'm sorry to be nit-picky. Edit: i just finished the video. I wanted to come back to this comment to say i loved your commentary on the other shows. Also i completely agree with your analysis on those.

[@Chaenggim]

the Haunting of bly manor, wouldn't it count as well as a dead all along?

[@cainvarner]

@@Chaenggim yes it would, but i was specifically framing the video around Violet and Nelly

[@soren3569]

Calling Beetlejuice's use of this trope as a 'twist' is straining the definition of the term, at least. As your opening quote suggests, twists are what happens when the audience feels the rug has been ripped from under them; Beetlejuice is totally up-front about the characters' fate.

[@cainvarner]

not all examples are twists… i feel like that goes without saying since i mentioned all the examples were used differently

[@soren3569]

@@cainvarner The Beetlejuice example used the word 'twist' to describe it, repeatedly. If you'd used 'trope', I wouldn't have said anything. That said, the vast majority of the video was quite good.

[@cainvarner]

@soren3569 well it’s still a twist in the story…i’m sure if you didn’t know anything about the film, you’d be shocked to see them die that early on, so it’s still a surprise in that sense but thank you

[@Thundergoddess]

Bly Manor, please!

[@innconspicuous]

👍🏼🍿

[@beepbood]

👍🏻

[@rachellewells1746]

I don’t feel Hill House fits the dead all along trope *There is no indication Nelly didn’t know she was dead *the audience new Nelly was dead, we just didn’t know where we were in the timeline *steve only saw Nelly for a brief moment between her dying and him finding out. There was no emphasis on a dupe, it was to drive the denial and mental health conviction. Nelly haunting herself though, that was horrifyingly beautiful. I see the trope as a dupe where we the audience and the character believe they are alive. Hannah in bly manor though fits this to a tea though. Really enjoyed the comparisons to AHS

[@cainvarner]

but nelly saw her OWN death/ghost. the whole video is about comparing DIFFERENT uses of the trope so therefore i included it because it’s not the same as ahs or the others at all.

[@rachellewells1746]

@ I can see that perspective. Definitely an interesting and enjoyable take. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[@nikkimental1130]

Are you watching Grotesqurie?

[@cainvarner]

no. i don’t have cable and so i don’t really keep up with most shows…plus ryan is pissing me off in the last few years so i only watch AHS

[@nikkimental1130]

@@cainvarner i don't do cable either but it's on Hulu.. He has been on a downward trajectory for sure but it's really good so far

[@B-zk9bt]

I despise the “__ was dead all along” trope.

[@ItsDrewsif]

What a cool way to spoil 3 different pieces of media at the same time! I’m glad I’ve already seen them, or I’d be super upset!

[@cainvarner]

bitch i put a spoiler warning at the beginning.

[@babigirl9111]

@@cainvarnerI think they mean in the title of the video.

[@HuntingViolets]

Spoilers in the heading.

[@cainvarner]

well yeah because that’s what i’m talking about in the video…

[@Littlestraincloud]

Hill House takes place in the 90s, not the 80s. I appreciate this breakdown, but your essay feels more like a summary than an analysis and could have been better researched.

[@cainvarner]

my mistake. For some reason i totally thought it was set in 1989 instead of 1992. Also how is it an only summary if i’m comparing two of my favorite shows and their differing uses of the trope? that’s an essay in my eyes but idk

[@Littlestraincloud]

@@cainvarner I'd really like to hear why you like this trope. What it means to you, or why you gravitate to shows that explore these themes. What makes essays special and unique is POV, otherwise it's just a wiki article with sound.

[@cainvarner]

@@Littlestraincloud well that’s quite a rude comparison. if you don’t like a video, you can just stay silent next time.

[@Littlestraincloud]

@@cainvarner I'm sorry that you found my feedback hurtful instead of helpful. That was not my intention. I wish you all the best in the future.