Can Astrologists & Astronomers See Eye To Eye? | Middle Ground

[@lostrainforests8259]

That astronomer stepping forward when asked if celestial objects influence people’s moods and going on and on about pretty planets literally made my day

[@Pivotification]

My problem is though, that they could be right. I don’t see why planets being far away means they can’t influence us, they do, we can see them and thus experience them. But I just don’t see ANY evidence to what astrologers say. I could copy their ideas and make up my own and then defend them with new ideas like they

[@kstar1489]

@@Pivotification except your think off intuition instead of evidence. Just because we can see the light from a star (one that possibly no longer even exists) doesn’t mean they have an actual physical effect on us other than looking pretty and effecting us emotionally in that way. We know the gravity from far off celestial bodies doesn’t effect us in any significant way objectively.

[@_sam_marquez]

@Are You Going To Do The 'Ora Ora' Thing? A peer reviewed study recently came out about how our moon affects us physically depending on whether it’s a full moon or a new moon. If the moon is one of the reasons we have tides & affects us physically in terms of our sleep cycle (which can then affect mood) who knows what is possible when it comes to celestial bodies having a influence over us.

[@leulgetachew696]

@@_sam_marquez causation =/= correlation.

[@thastayapongsak4422]

@@_sam_marquez That's just a cultural effect. Full half and new moon means different things in each culture and to each people. It doesn't prove anything.

[@Ethan-vo7po]

I just came home from a physics exam and the number of times this guy said energy made me cry.

[@orchidtea12]

I’m actually wheezing right now

[@eldritch_moth3191]

You keep using that word… I don’t think it means what you think it means

[@gooberthorpos8195]

ikr... They constantly use the word in a non-scientific way

[@karatefutzi]

Well Sir i got a fact for you then ! nothing MATTERS unless its ENERGY huehuehuheue

[@OmniMale]

My mom says that crap. I wanna carve out my eardrums with spoons. Ughh.

[@artisanaltoast9085]

I liked hearing the astronomer talk about how the moon affects his mood by being so beautiful

[@kstar1489]

Yeah, the idea that scientists are these cold calculating inhuman robots is an insane assumption a lot of people have. Scientifically minded people can be just as connected to and emotionally impacted by the universe and it’s beauty as anyone.

[@justahugenerd1278]

It's so cute, I love hearing scientists talk about the beauty in the things they study, idk why that specifically but it brings joy to my heart

[@ianlauerastro]

Thanks so much, I truly love the stars and the beauty of the cosmos!

[@kit106]

It really does. Taking my astronomy course has made me look at life different. It’s such a beautiful feeling to know you are apart of such an amazing universe.

[@DeepVoiceBryan]

Food does that for me. Lol

[@arbabashraf1126]

As a Physics Graduate, when he says 'energy' it itches my brain in ways I cannot explain.

[@Siegfried5846]

Say that again after you try 🍄

[@ahsnsb]

Physics grad here. The casual use of energy/quantum other scientific terms by these uneducated people is so infuriating

[@timothybrown8424]

It’s a buzz word now.

[@ShubhamThakur-lq3uc]

I cannot agree more.

[@dn45678]

That’s the difference between spiritual and scientific people. I understand what he means by energy 💀

[@Lightnin2511]

best part astronomer: well im not a evolutionary biologist so i wouldnt know astrologist:well im a cancer rising so i feel the moon and i know this is comedic gold

[@hectorcastro4956]

The guy really knew what his limitations on the topic were and then that girl went on to say that lmao

[@nafi_q]

Fr

[@dimitrifranck]

The more I watched the video and listened to the astrologists, the more I realized that they have a lot in common with religion as a whole. Religion is not based on facts and cannot be proven but wants to pass as the ultimate truth. Personal experience plays a huge role in the foundation of people’s religiosity. Instead of energy, religion appeals to faith in order to supposedly prove its trustworthiness and reliability.

[@HoneyFromTheHive]

Very funny. Though also she is very wrong, 28 days is the average cycle but the cycle length varies from woman to woman. So I guess being cancer rising didn't help her know there!

[@tripleschaeyeon]

she immediately reminded me of that meme "Omg I crashed a car! I'm such a libra"

[@HaUynH24]

Crystal healers and geologist, that’ll be interesting lol

[@tasneemahmed5821]

That would be freaking embarrassing. Imagine believing a freaking ROCK can do anything let alone work the cosmic powers in your favor. I don’t understand human beings I swear

[@joccie7113]

@@tasneemahmed5821 embarrassing but nothing could ever beat flat earthers vs scientist

[@stinkygremlin267]

@@tasneemahmed5821 I think rocks can heal you if you believe in it bacuse it's a placebo

[@xadielplasencia3674]

I think they would also need a doctor

[@MrWongerz]

That’s a great suggestion!

[@haleyandre]

"astrology is a science" and then "i interpret the astrology to fit my desired result" that is literally the antithesis of science..

[@Galiant2010]

Imagine if people did that with physics. Like gravity. "What does this ball want? If I throw it up it comes back down, therefore it wants to be with me. If I just let go of it then it falls to the ground, so it must want to get away from me. If I throw it, it won't come back because it thinks I don't want it." Astrology and flat earthers make me so frustrated because they ignore logic and data and make up a narrative to fit their own views. And that's gotta be the worst way to live. You're life is basically a lie at that point, and you're too thick headed to even realize it.

[@JoeBrandAG]

So, astrology is NOT a science that's why arrogant people call it "pseudo-science" but then again, it's also true that it's NOT NOT-A-SCIENCE because, to be a "pseudo"-science it should be partially true/functional... So, Astrology is not a science because it involves the individual's interpretation of abstract factors that can't be pinned down to the point you can replicate it 100% of the times"... which is exactly the case with Psychology... "Oh, but we can see the chemical reactions on the brain!" Yes, and we can also measure the gravity of ALL planets on earth, but we can't prove their correlation with astrology's claims (because science just doesn't want to give astrology a chance, I mean its so easy to prove it's wrong but they don't because that's how science works when there's a new hypothesis that clearly shows some results) just like how psychologists can't prove which chemical reactions correlate to which trauma/stimulus/etc... so they're both pseudo-sciences.

[@confidential303]

haley you totally missed the boat on this.

[@RONOVLOGZ]

@@JoeBrandAG astrology isn’t backed by empirical data, thus the claim that astrology being a science cannot be true. The claim that it can’t not be science is a redundancy to attempt to create a counter argument that is faulty at its root.

[@benellis273]

@@thelittleowl8399 go off king

[@Spacedoubt7]

I’m a high schooler taking a college astronomy class. There’s this girl who thought it was an astrology class and she was excited to learn how all the signs work and how the constellations connect our “energies”… I was about to throw a chair…

[@eladmint]

LOL😂

[@Ponitypon]

😂😂😂

[@Joshua-dc1bs]

😏

[@Pinkraincastle]

LMAOOO

[@trumanhopper2493]

I was also a high schooler taking a college astronomy course with someone who thought it was going to be astrology 😂

[@GabrielRaskind]

“I’m not an evolutionary biologist so idk” “I’m a cancer rising so I feel the moon” Yep that pretty much sums it up

[@user-jq2wg6vk4p]

I believe in astrology, but she made us look insane 😬

[@alasdairscott4718]

@@user-jq2wg6vk4p you are insane

[@user-jq2wg6vk4p]

@@alasdairscott4718 I’m not insane for having beliefs. Just until the past decade, we didn’t know everything was energy, and we still don’t know what dark energy is. There is still so much about the universe that we don’t know for us to be pompous enough to think we have all of the answers. I don’t believe in mainstream astrology. I believe in constellational astrology. I believe in patterns in the universe. If that makes me insane, then so be it, but at least I’m not being told by others what to believe.

[@animealpha4795]

@@user-jq2wg6vk4p past decade ? Dude you need to get back to science asap ! Ever heard of e=mc² ? Yeah that's basically a conversion equation of converting mass into energy. That's year 1905 when we literally devised a equation to calculate how much energy we have in our universe. And yeah, you had to know that the entire universe is made of energy if you wanna start working on discovering an equation about it.

[@koig8393]

@@user-jq2wg6vk4p we are closer to having a perfect model to explain everything in the universe thanks to the advancement of the quantum theories, so if u want answers you can sit and wait cuz they'll keep coming

[@ezicanshred]

This is like an actual proffesional blacksmith talking to a guy who crafted 10,000 axes in minecraft

[@flurifiction]

As a Minecraft player I feel offended

[@scottbecker4367]

Psh. Amateurs. Talk to me when you've crafted 1000 iron daggers in Skyrim.

[@steevinsuhgahl1161]

Hit the nail on the head.

[@jovankuzmanovski5324]

Thank you for this laugh, I needed it.

[@smolcatastrophe2906]

ahahhahahahahhahh

[@olajong2315]

These guys said "energy" more times than I did today and I'm taking chemistry and physics.

[@rocketman3770]

i just 'feel' that energy surging through me

[@AleXander-eo3iz]

Astrologist: "If you take all the energies of the sun you'll get enough energies to create more energies inside people. Unless the energies conflict with your shakkra energies then you'll just be left with two energies" Another Astrologist: "YASSS"

[@olajong2315]

@@AleXander-eo3iz I feel the energies

[@shlomojaffe1173]

@@AleXander-eo3iz The energy in this statement really allowed my energy to feel your energy

[@nerd_entangled]

Energy is often just used as an umbrella term to vaguely describe anything that they can't explain

[@hajartaoussi5537]

Kudos to the astronomers for staying calm the whole time

[@tomliao3073]

Time and time again, Jubilee keep showing us that the most clueless people are always the most confident.

[@sisi5444]

yep.... Dunning-Kruger effect

[@hawkmaza5551]

Facts

[@jeidelgado3023]

Factss

[@christinagaller4374]

Jw who are u referring to here?

[@-manillazilla8327]

@@christinagaller4374 obviously the people that believe in astrology

[@r.b.5050]

„Psychology is not rooted in a scientific method but in a person‘s energy“ cries in statistics

[@in-self-sabotage-mode]

Legit lmao I would not want her for a psych consult😂😂😂

[@bupekabamba6017]

I came to the comments section to group cringe at that statement.

[@jazminreyes2326]

Cries in psychological statistical methods in psychology and experimental psychology

[@chocofrogs1115]

Statistics yup, statistics yup yup

[@gergelyvirag533]

Imagine the reaction on your final exam from the opposer when you say "My thesis is rooted in my personal energy so i thought, no need to use ANOVA". :D

[@unicornbiomes]

“It’s a science because I use math” …honey I use math in dungeons and dragons that doesn’t make it a scientific pursuit

[@floatytrouty]

I used math to calculate resources in Minecraft too,math is merely a tool to describe basically the language of reality,we use these tool to describe a lot of stuff including science

[@gypsyhannie]

BAHAHAHAHA amazing comment

[@jasonz31]

Yeah umm i think he was the most radical one

[@vespeyre]

AMAZING!

[@reasondro]

yup basically

[@Suzuki_bj]

My favorite part is at the 11:15 mark when the one astrologist tries to explain that since the moon effects the ocean causing tides then it must effect our bodies because we are made of 70% water. You can see how a lack of understanding of science can literally have you make up anything and correlate it. He has no understanding of gravity causing tides and not the moon having some magical effect on water.

[@JimboJamble]

I wish they'd spent a bit longer talking about this. I feel like seeing how the moon affects the tides is validating for people who want to believe that celestial objects can influence people. After all, if the moon can move _the entire ocean,_ how could it _not_ affect us? Even if people understand just how tiny the pull from the moon is, they don't really understand tidal forces and how immeasurably small the difference in strength across the length of our 5-6 foot bodies is. They also don't really consider questions like... if we're influenced by the pull of the moon, could you change or negate the effect just by changing the orientation of your body?

[@Nonamelol.]

Huh? 😂 that is exactly how tides happen though, the moon’s gravity causes tides.

[@Patterrz]

Listening to the Astrologists talk, you can't convince me they're not just making it up as they go

[@hamburger9677]

Alr bro

[@electronicbamboo6764]

Ok

[@cartersmith9842]

Isn't that how talking works...?

[@lukassferracin08]

@@cartersmith9842 you make things up in conversation? thats just lying

[@astralfluxaf]

You can’t understand things you know nothing about…

[@SupremeVerdict]

"I'm never wrong. I don't miss" *5 seconds later* "Well that's when the interpretation comes into play if they say it's not true" So you just wiggle things about until it's so vague that anything can fit and then you take a mallet to it until it does?

[@synlion]

Yep. They even said it in the beginning. Astrology is just about finding personality models that resonate with you, i.e. give you the feeling of recognizing some aspect of your personality in them. It makes people believe that they understand themselves because it labels previously unlabeled psychological occurrences for them.

[@SupremeVerdict]

@@synlion it's just confirmation bias, the game lol.

[@theotherleonaygirl]

It’s literally cold reading. That’s what “psychics” do to convince people that they have paranormal abilities.

[@SupremeVerdict]

@@theotherleonaygirl yup yup

[@mr.swedishfish12]

it's called the barnum effect. their "visions" and conclusions/interpretations are so vague and general that it could apply to just about anyone and people think it's true.

[@peaceblossom8]

Nina lost me the minute she said you could use astrology "to validate and affirm the things that you feel in yourself". That is pretty much the definition of confirmation bias; and if you've got confirmation bias going on, your science is at the very least heavily flawed and likely not really science at all.

[@shuruktigarajeswaran9852]

Exactly. When they say they’re just showing possibilities. They just pick and choose things until it perfectly encapsulates the person. There are so many components to astrology that you can just take out and add things until they fit

[@alukardio6991]

@@shuruktigarajeswaran9852 yep, and they make the VAGUEST interpretations so that whoever is reading that feels like it's describing themself. For example: most aquarius moon don't like to fit in a box, they thrive in wild conditions. Like that's at least 60% of people on earth. Mockery

[@peterf08]

She is literally just a con artist

[@calvinkay1747]

Lmaoooooooooooo

[@iicloudydrxxmsii2878]

She was so judgemental and seemed like she wasn't hearing out the otherside.

[@miguelabreucoelho]

"What makes you say that?" "Physics" "Sure, but we have anecdotal evidence..." .........

[@lila6621]

they should've made the astrologers guess the astronomers' risings, that would have been fun

[@yousifa7354]

Well the lady said you can’t know someone that well after first meeting them to make a prediction, so they’d probably just say that if they get the signs wrong.

[@shuzennn]

I was thinking that :)))

[@altheuss]

so to get rising signs we need the exact birth time down to hours and minutes, place and date of birth, not everyone has their birth time with them (usually can be found in birth certificate though). just to clarify :3

[@christinagaller4374]

Great idea. At least they can prove something. If it’s science, there should be reliability.

[@pass_da_knoccs83]

LMAOOO 😂😂😂 Precisely

[@Cyrotech]

I didn’t know people thought astrology was a science

[@nick-vv1lz]

Yep there's the people who think it's interesting but don't take it serious there's the people who like it in a spiritual sense but know it isn't science and then there's the people who take it way to seriously and ask you your sign before your name and tell you stuff like "oh your a virgo well I'm a gemini and we're just not going to get along together"

[@nashi._.7563]

@@nick-vv1lz Yep, I like it in a spiritual sense. Not in a militant sense. I would never disregard someone based on their sign. That’s silly lol

[@cariocaemfuria3946]

This is why we have the term pseudoscience.

[@wwxx23]

Exactly i thought we were doing it for fun 💀

[@rosealexander9007]

@@nick-vv1lz yup I’m one of those that think it’s interesting but definitely don’t take it seriously lol 😆

[@neobirb8597]

The issue I find with astrology is that it, inherently, can never be "wrong". Every inconsistency is shrugged off as an alternative interpretation.

[@ilTHfeaa]

which is why it’s not a science.

[@qingxinn_]

^^^ this can be applied to religion fr fr

[@philipshumway9943]

@@qingxinn_facts!! if it does not have the ability to be falsified then nothing is really being said

[@doorlord1521]

@@ilTHfeaa exactly. Science isn't always as fun as astrology for this reason. It's much more about the external world telling you what's real rather than you discovering for yourself what's real. Which is why scientists will work for years to prove their theories and will often end up being wrong because that's just the way it works.

[@SRVarma1993]

That is the definition of an unfalsifiable claim. The very basic minimal requirement of a scientific proposition is that it should be falsifiable.

[@markherbert4723]

New statement: "I feel comfortable lying to people in order to get their money."

[@squidwardtesticles1191]

I think astrology should be kept as a spiritual belief, not compare it to science

[@squidwardtesticles1191]

@Extended Long I practice the metaphysical & in my opinion it’s a belief not science I wouldn’t even bring it up into science Bc ik it would just be debunked as not scientifically accurate or possible

[@squidwardtesticles1191]

@Extended Long okay, and it was evaluated in this video lol therefore it’ll be a spiritual belief

[@UrbanDecayLova247]

Most people I know don’t even see it as a science they just like it for fun, yet people still get so angry about it 😂 I think people who hate astrology need lives personally.

[@UrbanDecayLova247]

@whatupbrahs and most people I know just view it as fun…so again people who hate astrology so much need lives 😂

[@queennatifah_]

@@UrbanDecayLova247 truth

[@Jisungs.moving.castle]

“I’m a cancer rising so I feel the moon.” That made me giggle tbh.

[@jennyoyster5054]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@giodalle]

In astrology, the Ascendant is what zodiac sign was RISING over the horizon, to the east, you can take a glance at the sky to appreciate this. Use an app or something. Anyways, the rising or ascendant is what was first marked upon your being to take the role of, when you came out of the womb. It's how "you" or how others may perceive you, and physically; by first impression mostly. Your looks. Cancer is tied to being ruled by the moon, so... she feels connected to it. As she could, a Cancer rising.

[@Ghanemq8]

@@giodalle who asked? 😊

[@giodalle]

@@Ghanemq8 wow, great question dude.

[@Blaatann53]

@@giodalle ...so who asked?

[@newchapterasmr]

"I'm a cancer rising so I feel the moon" I can't deal with this

[@Numb_]

when Nina said that they have anecdotal evidence, I clocked out 12:40 btw. you can't argue or reason with a person that thinks like that and the fact that they still call it a science is just an insult to the scientist community.

[@luigi1606]

my grandma got cancer and i hope she is rising too now that she is not with us anymore...

[@Darketac]

I couldn’t help but laugh after she said that 😂

[@aliquidgaming1068]

@@luigi1606 lmfao stfu lol I'm dying over here....not of cancer, of laughter. Will rise off the ground at some point

[@luke34445]

what’s so funny about it?

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

This episode was very necessary to show that middle ground can at times be a very bad thing

[@a-jjjjjjj]

This one is weird because the two "sides" are both completely different yet not mutually exclusive. One is a field of science, one is a set of spiritual beliefs. The astrologists aren't even challenging anything about astronomy.

[@filippetrovic845]

@@a-jjjjjjjSpiritual beliefs 😂 But you can only use word “spiritual” from a stance of someone who doesnt know what he is talking about. You probably cant describe what is spiritual yourself.

[@buttercat2718]

@@filippetrovic845i mean it’s a belief system isn’t it? That’s the main point the commenter was making abt astrology idk why you’re hung up on the “spiritual” part

[@No-cg9kj]

@@a-jjjjjjj that's because not one of them could pass enough calculus to have anything relevant to say about astronomy lol.

[@inthemoonden]

kind of awful example. it would have been nice to see astrologers who actually understand the astronomical foundations of the systems .. instead we got the most cliche example of the modern new age world. maybe just for views, idk .

[@CantComeUpWithAGoodName]

Ashley is so sharp. She always realises what’s going on when there is a miscommunication and can put it into words spot on. Apart from her obvious expertise of course.

[@ianv2875]

Yeees

[@ikebeckman1074]

@@inthebegninnging5166 bruh that’s sus asf 🤡🤡

[@Elias.__]

Right

[@eaj008]

@@ikebeckman1074 Fr💀

[@annejia5382]

true

[@issin5522]

I aspire to have the patience of these astronomers. Hearing "energy", "I feel like", "affirming", "resonates with me" while discussing science would have made me lose my cool.

[@tiny-grimes]

@Sanningen There is no "energy for me or you or them" in scince. Just like people don't say "Well, gravity for me is...". Energy in physics is a quantitative property. And whenever you say "studies show", please provide backup. What studies, where and under what curcustances those studies were performed, how many test subjects therer were (and what are the ages, genders they are), where it was published?. The moon affect the tide because of gravitational pull.

[@erin1569]

@Sanningen if you start with "Energy for me can be" you're already outside the realm of science. You can talk and use the term "energy", but don't pretend to be talking about science. Scientific terms are very precisely determined. Constellations have no effect on our lives except for the light they produce. Regarding the moon claim, it can come down to the amount of light you see, your biological sleep cycles, the placebo effect or many others. You wouldn't even be able to include gravity has because (at best) the moon exerts a force of 0.005 Newtons/kg compared to Earth's 9.8 N/kg, meaning it would get lost in the uncertainty of your potential paper. I don't think we're able to isolate the moon as the primary factor.

[@APerson-qw8yy]

Both sides were cringey in this episode. Hard to watch.

[@jesswinter]

Right? When she compared psych and astrology. I would have had to walk out right there lmaooo

[@mauricioh4461]

cry about it

[@jasminewilliams8944]

“Psychology isn’t based on the scientific method” I want to SCREAM

[@brendad.6204]

Not all parts of psychology is

[@jasminewilliams8944]

@@brendad.6204 yes, all parts of MODERN psychology are. If you’re referring to the ancient theories of Jung and Freud, those aren’t respected anymore BECAUSE they’re not empirically sound.

[@josealbertocardenasyalan6702]

Psychology is not a science in a strict way.

[@jasminewilliams8944]

@@josealbertocardenasyalan6702 according to who exactly??? I have a bachelor of science in psychology and I work as a research assistant in two psychology labs. From where I stand, it’s absolutely a science in a “strict” sense

[@josealbertocardenasyalan6702]

​@@jasminewilliams8944 you are right, my bad. I just search information about the psychology status. I'm kinda old and english is not my native language. :(

[@user-qw4ud5cj6j]

“I can only go off of planets in our orbit, the moon, the sun, Pluto…..” literally lists 3 things in a row that are not planets😂

[@rafox66]

To be fair, Pluto is still a dwarfplanet

[@JimTheEditor]

I staggered when he kept going.

[@kimberleymonroe8625]

​@@rafox66Right, but it's not a planet

[@rafox66]

@@kimberleymonroe8625 Close enough for an astrologist.

[@sanathanadharma108]

Bro the literal meaning of Planet is Wanderers of the sky. So Sun and moon are technically Planets. But in science they are objects which revolve around a Star.

[@ayamostafa5919]

Id like to see belivers scientists vs atheist scientists.

[@hamburger9677]

wouldn’t be that interesting imo

[@stephanierivera7143]

I WOULD LOVE THIS

[@ayeshaahsan7931]

Not as bad. Believer scientists do not claim religion is a fact based science.

[@krizhiel6376]

THIS

[@SB-no9pz]

I SECOND THIS

[@adamhicken8898]

These astrologists remind me of politicians, they can talk and talk without ever saying anything. They also contradict themselves with their own logic, which is also like modern politicians

[@Random-sk6hm]

fr

[@rocketman3770]

the astronomers were the sensible moderates, and the astrologists were the alt right and woke left lmao

[@taylosaurus]

@@rocketman3770 make way for the enlightened centrist, everyone

[@rocketman3770]

@@taylosaurus make way for woke Taylor, her entitled opinion supersedes all common folk lmfao

[@taylosaurus]

@@rocketman3770 I never specified my stance lol, way to prove me right sir

[@seanrobinson7539]

The amount of times he said "energy" without it actually meaning anything was mind numbing

[@DougDoNascimento]

And when he kept saying "people actually sat down and figured this out"

[@Rebius]

It would be interesting to ask them to replace the word energy with something else. Would it be the same word over and over, or would they rather come up with more words that better describe what they mean by energy?

[@yashasm753]

Ya figured it out these frauds play with unclear definitions and barnam statements to fool the gullible like you ​@@DougDoNascimento

[@tormartinab]

I know I'm late, but calling the sun and moon planets at 14:10 is just wild to me

[@AstronomyAdmirer]

And also saying Pluto is a planet also 😂

[@iamhere9758]

@@AstronomyAdmirer well, in astrology we describe Pluto as a planet.

[@AstronomyAdmirer]

@@iamhere9758 Pluto is a dwarf planet Not a planet

[@iamhere9758]

@@AstronomyAdmirer I can repeat my statement as much as I need to, until you stop for a moment and actually read carefully what I wrote "in ASTROLOGY we describe Pluto as a planet".

[@AstronomyAdmirer]

@@iamhere9758 I don’t care what you describe in astrology It’s a pseudoscience and I have no time for it

[@sunnyy788]

The girl studying psychology sadly represented psychology in a misleading light. Psychology IS based on the scientific method, we DO have theories that guilds our research and these theories and hypotheses are then restructured if they are not supported by evidence. Yes, it is a soft science, but NO it is not comparable to astrology.

[@user-ur2wd8du4z]

louder!!!!

[@brandonsolanes9217]

I disagree, I don’t believe it is a soft science whatsoever, that is hard science, as complicated and intricate as physics chemistry or biology, honestly it’s people like this that water down its significance because the real physiologist (unlike the girl in this video, who clearly said that in order to fair over some sort of credibility) have done remarkable work and have conducted and observe crazy experiments that deserve more recognition, not someone that poses as one just to undermine all of the work of great minds that came before

[@sunnyy788]

@@brandonsolanes9217 Thanks for that! I completely agree with you regarding how you describe the science. When it comes to soft vs. hard science, I guess that depends on the definition you go by, as it is still quite vague, and what aspects you want to focus on. Main point - psychology is a science and I'm glad that other people agree with me on the fact that the girl merely tried to make herself seem more credible.

[@cpisarek4284]

Coming from a scientist in a biological field, I 100% agree that psychology is a science that is based on the scientific method! I think people get hung up on the fact that what was once considered fact may not prove to be true in the future. But that's science for ya. Lol

[@cliffinhokisero3747]

Psychology is a science

[@oyuyuy]

You can really see how the astronomers ponder over how ruthless they want to be

[@skyguytomas9615]

Ponder? They came in thirsty for blood. 😂

[@Tavat]

@@skyguytomas9615Nah, they were incredibly gentle with these weirdos.

[@dragonmaster909]

​@@skyguytomas9615they were considerably nice

[@lexivivid8073]

This!!!!!!!!!!

[@palubaker117]

Factssss

[@MN-co2ni]

Out of the astrologers, Ebony was the most level-headed. It seemed like she more so understood she is reading people and trying to be therapeutic rather than full-on saying astrology is accurate.

[@jdeljones]

She also said she was a psychologist, or has a psychology degree. So maybe that's why. She's familiar with working with evidence-backed research and can distinguish between when something being more analytical or interpretive. She definitely had the most interesting perspective out of the astrologers.

[@nafi_q]

Fr

[@josearguettabitoni6448]

What kinda name is Ebony lol

[@chinenyekalu7179]

@@josearguettabitoni6448 its pretty normal name.. get your mind out of the gutter, not everything needs to be sexualized

[@papamama3196]

Definitely yes .. but she also implied that practicing psychology and therapy is not evidence backed which is a major red flag 🚩🚩

[@dasani.like.the.water.]

The Barnum Effect: a common psychological phenomenon whereby individuals give high accuracy ratings to descriptions of their personality that supposedly are tailored specifically to them, yet which are in fact vague and general enough to apply to a wide range of people. Without the Barnum Effect, none of these astrologers would have a job

[@eladmint]

Forer*

[@ovrthemoon5309]

i almost lost it when that one woman said psychology is not rooted by the scientific method - this is absolutely not true. as someone about to graduate with a bachelor’s in the subject, although the field of psychology does have its issues, what we know CAN be backed by empirical research. we know what therapeutical techniques and medications work to improve symptoms of mental disorders because of randomized/controlled scientific trials.

[@meeranair1]

Yes thank you! As a psych student, I was up in arms when she said that. Don't need the scientific method to prove she had no idea what she was talking about.

[@loverrlee]

That is true, but it’s called a “soft science” because all the scientific trials are based on testimonials. Isn’t it the same for astrology? We just haven’t done any scientific trials based in astrology yet.

[@ovrthemoon5309]

@@loverrlee i wouldn’t say ALL studies are based on testimonials alone. sure, subjective variables like resilience and well-being are hard to measure or observe directly, so studies on these can often rely on participant self-reports. but studies DO exist using direct observation on behavior as evidence, most often with animal subjects like mice or hamsters (especially with studies pertaining to drug use disorders or the like). i also don’t see how anyone could conduct a true scientific study on astrology, since the whole point is that you’re “born” with certain traits based on star placements at your time of birth - you can’t just randomly assign someone a new time of birth or natal chart to see if they suddenly act any differently.

[@ebonyhardiman7519]

I said that not to be disrespectful. From what I've studied in my masters program, I see psychology as an interpretation of human behavior that is backed by science. Unlike astrology which I see as an interpretation of human behavior that is not back by science. There's levels, I'm not saying psychology and astrology are the same thing or on the same level but I do see overlap and I do consider astrology an soft science.

[@ovrthemoon5309]

@@ebonyhardiman7519 this is an interesting perspective to have - thanks for the clarification! although i (respectfully) disagree on your stance of astrology as a soft science, but with your master’s degree perhaps you have learned something i haven’t yet haha, would be interesting to know how you got into astrology and what led you to considering it a soft science

[@cheesesteakphilly]

Astronomers: “I’m mad because I slept in and was late for work.” Astrologers: “I’m mad because Mercury is in retrograde and Mars’ moon is in its 5th phase causing a shift in behavioural actions…but what can I say, I’m an Aquarius lol.”

[@E_PHI_r]

I don’t think they know mars has moons

[@vijaygk-zj6tl]

🤣

[@teaz8974]

HHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAH

[@sahara_2648]

Lmao 😂

[@C8H10N4O2-b]

LMFAOO

[@SolitudeVolante]

The astrologers are trying so hard to support their side. And astronomers are just chilling, I love it.

[@marilenakatsioti]

yeah, because the astrologers are the misinterpreted ones. (no i don't think astrology is a science)

[@nguyetminhhuynh2128]

Because one thing is real, the other thing is just belief made to be real.

[@M.I.22]

I didn't find all of the astronomers chill at all to be honest 😅

[@ShadowJinxXOX]

How can you not want to "try hard" in proving your side of the spectrum when its so heavily misrepresented? Astrology is like a color wheel, we have the sun signs - what everyone practically knows - which would be considered as the color red for an example. But then, as you learn more, you'll find out that there's in fact many different hues of red, which differentiates the people of that category. Along with people having more than one color in their birth chart as well. If you imagine the birth chart as a painting, then obviously no person's painting is going to look exactly the same. There's going to be a variety of color splashed about it in varies ways that can only be unique to yourself, based on your houses and planarity placements. This is to only explain what Astrology is, not prove that its scientific based, but to at least show that its more than just saying "Omg you're such a Virgo!" or "Eww I can't date him, because he's a Scorpio." Its like saying that this person is only [insert nationality], when they're that but also so much more which defines their identity; religion, culture, ethnicity, geography, etc.

[@nashi._.7563]

The astronomers weren’t chill tho lol There were some moments where you could tell they were tense especially the guy in the middle

[@00mpa1oomp4]

This is like a call of duty bro taking on a marine

[@aliyaissunshine]

Ian’s response about being affected by celestial objects is so wholesome and sweet😭

[@ianlauerastro]

Thank you so much! This comment has me smiling from ear to ear :)

[@shibuya4189]

@@ianlauerastro you had great takes Ian

[@jizanthapus3099]

@@ianlauerastro i love what you said, and i think you would like this poem by walt whitman! “When I heard the learn’d astronomer, When the proofs, the figures, were ranged in columns before me, When I was shown the charts and diagrams, to add, divide, and measure them, When I sitting heard the astronomer where he lectured with much applause in the lecture-room, How soon unaccountable I became tired and sick, Till rising and gliding out I wander’d off by myself, In the mystical moist night-air, and from time to time, Look’d up in perfect silence at the stars.”

[@yogibear3761]

@@ianlauerastro nah kidding u were delusionate

[@PresidentJeanAuguste]

@@yogibear3761 Hold your horses m8, arent you going too far calling him "delusionate"?

[@willdouglas9896]

I respect these scientists for being able to stay so calm with these takes, as a physics student I wouldn't be able to stop myself laughing tbh

[@altaccount9716]

Im surprised the astronomers said something wrong. 13:50. So the thing about that is that it is because of the speed of light, and it took that long for the light to reach you. But it's not only the speed of light. it's the maximum speed of the universe. For example, if the Sun disappeared, we wouldn't know for around eight minutes. That's because that's how long the light would take to reach us. But it's not only the light. it's everything that affects us from the sun, like the gravitational pull. The gravitational pull wouldn't be noticed instantly ethier it would be noticed when we saw the light. That's because everything's maximum speed is the speed of light. So if this beetlejuice plant/star, i don't know what it is, disappeared, we wouldn't feel the effects of its disappearance until we saw the light. Sorry if the English is bad, im only 15, and im not from an English speaking country. Also, source: i learned this from watching a video from Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

[@BullShitThat]

@@altaccount9716 I believe you missed her point entirely, she's saying because it takes photons, gravity, cosmic rays, etc. *time* to propagate through space to reach us here on Earth; then how is it possible that Astrologers are using such celestial objects to make present-day claims about humanity, WHEN those same objects no loner currently exist in this present-day to be interpreted at all. But there is a rebuttal/counterargument to this that could have been made by the Astrologers, but they're not versed enough in science to make this logical counterpoint

[@ND7226]

Bro astrology and physics don't have much in common. You are not more qualified to judge than any normie

[@SaintIC]

@@ND7226bad take

[@tiinan375]

@@ND7226they have very much in common what are you taking about

[@SheldonEvansx]

*I think we can clearly see which of these people KNOW what they’re talking about and which of them do not.* That’s all I’m going to say.

[@mclovin6877]

Well said

[@lynnhawkins952]

I had to stop at 8:53. It's called "evidence based practice" and if a therapist is using anything else outside of a research capacity they are not clinicians, they are quacks.

[@ojustambe1918]

How convenient even your name is Sheldon!

[@TheAgonizingBeauty]

@@lynnhawkins952 it's literally in our code of ethics that we must use only interventions and approaches that are grounded in evidence-based practice.

[@tracker569]

Yep!!

[@jasonwalon5470]

I have done a bachelor's in physics and currently working as an AI researcher. I really tried watching this video to understand both views but I just couldn't bear the stupidity. This would actually be torture to go through.

[@destinyluna7216]

Just needed to clarify that psychology is a science that IS rooted in the scientific method. And ethical therapy modalities are ALL evidence-based. Social sciences use the scientific method as well smh

[@saraantonangeli9283]

And SHE is the one who studied Psychology! 😫

[@elizabethbauer5255]

Yes!!! Thank you!! That made me so mad. Masters in psychology here.

[@HackersSun]

Yes. And still, not the shrinks I went to didn't treat sh*t The pyschs asked me questions to "treat myself" Healthy gamer gg taught that pyschs don't do crawp

[@andrew-qw5ez]

they are considered soft sciences because it's near impossible to ethically conduct experiments on people and control for millions of variables but definitely agree that it shouldnt be lumped together with astrology

[@fuck_anx]

When you make a psychological test it works, when you make an astrology test it works (after 20 attempts) yeah these ppl are delusional

[@amberv1340]

Super intelligent how the astronomer said yes, there is likely a connection between women's menstrual cycles and the moon, but that's a topic for an evolutionary biologist to address. Excellent critical thinking and appropriate professional awareness of one's field.

[@staebs]

“The human menstrual cycle is only the about same length as the lunar month - it isn’t synchronised with a particular phase. One frequently cited study, published in the American Journal Of Obstetrics And Gynecology in 1980, found some evidence of synchronisation, but the effect was very weak. Of the sample of 312 women, 244 had cycles that were longer than 29 days or shorter than 27, and only 70 per cent of the rest actually started their period within two weeks of the full Moon. If locking our reproductive cycle to the lunar month was advantageous, you might expect other animals to do the same. Orangutans and possums have 28-day cycles, but our closest relatives, the chimpanzees, have 35-day cycles. Non-primate mammals have an oestrous cycle, which works differently to menstruation, but none of them synchronise their reproduction with the phases of the Moon.” source: sciencefocus “Studies suggest synchronizations in the lunar and menstrual cycles are down to random chance. It turns out, most evidence suggests that a person’s period links up with lunar cycles only at the rate you’d expect due to random chance. Early studies suggested a tenuous link. However, a 2013 retrospective study in the journal Endocrine Regulations that tracked 74 women over a year found no evidence for the synchronization of lunar phases to the menstrual cycle. The rise of period-tracking apps has enabled researchers to undertake even bigger studies. In 2019, researchers at the tracking app Clue analyzed 7.5 million cycles from 1.5 million app users. (This analysis did not go through peer review, a process whereby outside experts vet new research before it's published.) They found no evidence that menstrual cycles or periods were more likely to happen at any time in the lunar cycle.” source: livescience TLDR: there is no basis in the science, nor evolutionary evidence that the timeframes of menstruation and the lunar cycle happen to be vaguely similar. Humans like to make connections and a lot of the time periods of time in the natural world just happen to be similar due to random chance.

[@TH-el1dr]

​@@fallenangel_899i fear you grossly misunderstood what he meant when saying it correlates with the lunar month meaning the amount of time is the same, not that the lunar cycle and menstrual cycle occur at the same time

[@erinwhipple4666]

But everyone’s menstrual cycle is different, so how could menstruation be in any way related to an unchanging lunar cycle…?

[@fallenangel_899]

@@TH-el1dr There’s literally nothing to fear lol

[@jasonhaven7170]

Evolutionary biology is not a thing.

[@jonathanwalsh8952]

This resembled a compassionate parent trying to understand the ramblings of a young teenager that doesn't know themself.

[@atafakheri8659]

more like a con, saying whatever people like to hear to get paid

[@titusrivers5059]

😂🤣😂🤣😂😂

[@Dotexe245]

except they were grown ass adults

[@axelservellon8157]

Astronomers = People with Jobs and responsibility Astrologist = That unemployed friend on a Tuesday

[@JP-sf6sg]

Ian: I’m not an evolutionary biologist Nina: I’m a cancer rising Idk why this was just so funny to me 😂

[@stackenitup87]

Woooooo 🤣🤣🤣

[@williamstallings4085]

@@stackenitup87 ive watched that clip 20 times lmfaoooo

[@PriyankaVerma-yh9cs]

I see ian and nina i think vampire diaries 😂

[@mohamed_is_him]

Just the complete polar opposite

[@Mia-ek1jp]

Loll

[@m.l3483]

Astronomers: So are you saying that Astrology is more like Psychology? Astrologers: Yes Psychologists: Are we a joke to you?

[@elizabethbauer5255]

Masters in psychology here... that part made me mad pissed off not gonna lie. Psychology is definitely science backed and peer reviewed!

[@lovewins1072]

🤣🤣🤣

[@nodranb98]

Both psychology and astrology are behavioral based practices. To claim they are the exact same is ridiculous but there is some connections which should be noted. They both track the complexity of human nature and I would agree that psychology is a science more so than astrology by far (professional astrologer here). Many astrologers also collect empirical data throughout their studies so it is on par with sciences but because it is all interpretation and so closely linked to spirituality it becomes invalidated by science.

[@bradlytshigeng7350]

@@elizabethbauer5255 yes, yes it is.

[@asassyghostnamedcassie]

I suggest we'd change it from psychologists to psychics, that seems more accurate🔮

[@jesswinter]

That girl did not just compare psych and actual therapy with astrology. Oof. Thank you to the astronomer that corrected her.

[@federicamottadelli9333]

As a Psychology student, I died inside a little bit.

[@ebonyhardiman7519]

There are many people who view therapy in the same way people view astrology. So yes I did. I am a therapy student so using my knowledge of both I stated my own opinion.

[@viniciosgomes1945]

I mean, I think that astrology, in regards to its psychology aspects, can be somewhat helpful to those who practice it. However, everything else that says planets and stars can affect how we should feel or what we should do is plain gibberish, then rendering astrology unnecessary at the end of the day.

[@emotional_st0rm]

"psychology is a soft science" says literally only people who have never heard an actual psychologist speak .-.

[@sleepyaoki]

I was really irritated when Ebony categorized psychology and astrology in an equal level. Psychology is far more deeper and important that what people believe in, in astrology

[@mish6937]

"Most scientists would say that I'm crazy" Yes, and rightly so

[@belletense3618]

Psych Student here: psychology is a science and we use the scientific method - and yes we use it for treatment too! If it weren’t based in science it would be unethical to implicate said treatment on ppl. Don’t listen to her, psychology is a field in science, research, and health/medicine

[@jeremyd2453]

Hence the whole idea of evidence-based practice that's gained a lot of momentum nowadays. Maybe she was referring to non-standardised therapies like psychodynamic and stuff where you can't really have the same level of evidence in why they work and all that. But you can still see whether it's helped people and compare it to a placebo and control group, and then you technically still have scientific data... But I do get what she meant, cause like it happens a lot of times where you can just have different results depending on the people that participate in the study. And it's not like all the replicated studies get published so there's a lot of info we wouldn't have...

[@ChechoColombia1]

Im sorry but psych is not a science, replicability fails almost everytime in psych experiments.

[@leorkoubi4626]

I'd like to believe that, but so many foundational studies such as the Stanford prison study a were done with a terrible methodology, and now it's unethical to repeat them so we are basing our understanding off of faulty assumptions.

[@soaptastesalrightiguess7932]

​@@leorkoubi4626Oh just wait until you find out what WWII Germany/Japan's 'scientific endeavors' looked like LOL Remember, the accepted model of the solar system used to be geocentrist. Science is what WE can interpret of the natural world. Science is NOT some miracle method of unveiling every possible quality of a subject with absolute objectivity and detail ... There are bound to be thousands upon thousands of 'errors' yet to come in our journey to understand the universe.

[@Schemaboy]

yesss

[@tnorverto]

I think the best argument to use with astrologers is: "if all written knowledge is lost and we start from scratch in a 1000 years, we will arrive to the same astronomical understanding and write the same laws that celestial objects follow. We will never arrive to the same astrological laws, it's a mythological interpretation of the stars, a story. "

[@TheMissiIe]

Thank aquarium for Ricky Gervais

[@confidential303]

noo not happening

[@TomisaLami]

Brilliant. I know I've heard other people say it Ricky Gervais Neil deGrasse Tyson but I always forget this point.

[@firstylasty9417]

Same with religion. _Opens a new can of worms._

[@wal_rider8479]

they'd probably say that we would, and at that point you're hard stuck again. You can't really talk hypotheticals with these people.

[@rocketrakkor9424]

“Psychology isn’t a science” Psychologists: 👁👄👁

[@parthavinautiyal]

@Alexa Brock and some people’s ignorance would change it?

[@gabyboutros1510]

@Alexa Brock I mean people do not define what science is and what is not lol, as these astrologers are doing. For something to be considered as a science it needs a lot of scrutinization and steps, etc.

[@Rationality4Life]

Psychology is a science though. Human behaviour is understood by conducting many experiments often involving the manipulation of variables. Mathematical tests are done to test the significance of the results and quantitative data is also often collected and used for analysis and comparison.

[@ricochetsixtyten]

definition: the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. yes, its a science, albeit a soft science with more variables and more chaotic, if you can study animals and call it science then you can study humans and call it science, were also animals and we behave in complex ways

[@moomoothecow3091]

Its more of a soft science. A subcategory of biology. But psychological data is sometimes quite hard to reproduce because people's minds are so unique.

[@michaelwiltbank3619]

if bro says energy one more time I'm gonna lose it

[@yaboi772]

Astronomer: “Gravitational forces between far away celestial bodies are negligible” Astrology: “How do you know that?” Astronomer: “I’ve studied physics for many years to understand how gravity works” Astrology: “Sure, well we have plenty of anecdotal evidence” Is this girl smoking crack? Like wtf makes you think that’s a valid argument?😂

[@user-pe2yx9kt4e]

Why couldn’t she explain exactly why? I see her point, but the astronomer sounded silly herself if you want to go down that route.

[@samba9450]

@UCxKCdrCfTJ8tL1KtXv3agZQ because the force of gravity has an equation that is dependent on distance u goddamn star clown

[@user-pe2yx9kt4e]

@@samba9450 if you’re talking to me, then her stating that she’s studied physics for many years doesn’t really have anything to do with that. And it should still have some effect (otherwise, the law does not apply to all situations, which should be the point within their framework, from my understanding and what they put off/communicate- does it cease to exist when it’s far away? Can we say that if it essentially doesn’t show up in certain instances that it has been disproven?). As was brought up, there does seem to be some sort of correlation between the moon and women’s menstrual cycles. And why focus simply upon gravitational forces? Physicists themselves can’t properly group gravity in with the other 3 fundamental forces. There’s so much they don’t know. I don’t really believe in astrology either btw, though I’m still open to the possibility of at least parts of it being legitimate... Though overall, I still think it’s unholy, or at least- it isn’t my place to judge someone completely off of their zodiac sign or whatever other metric they use- especially when doctors push for c-sections and/or induced births.

[@josha1349]

@@user-pe2yx9kt4e that astronomer seemed to be using logically flawed argumentation anyway. She brought up beetlejuice being 400-600 light years away and how it going supernova wouldn't effect them immediately. She's implying that somehow what the astrologers call "energy" is faster than the speed of light. If she studied physics for as long as she said she had, i would hope she would realize how dangerous that implication is and how it would undermine a lot of physics concepts that our world has been built upon today like relativity

[@JimmyHey]

​@@josha1349 Where did you get the idea that she implied that this "energy" was faster than the speed of light? She used that argument solely to disprove how something very far away in space (a celestial body) literally can not affect you at a certain point in time (like your birth). She used a celestial body going supernova 650 lightyears away as a way to disprove that it can't affect you, since it would've happened a long, long time ago for us. She's saying it can't affect you, quite literally the opposite of what you're claiming she's saying. The astrologers would be claiming that it's travelling faster than the speed of light, since they're the ones claiming that the celestial bodies are affecting them. She's claiming it wouldn't. I feel like you're putting words in her mouth or just simply misunderstood what she said.

[@blue---monday]

Astrology should be considered as religion at this point tbh. It's literally, LITERALLY a belief. It's torally fine if you find it suitable for you, but recognize it as a belief. If abrahamic religious folks can accept the whole world telling them that their scripture ≠ science, then astrologers shouldn't get butthurt to be considered the same thing honestly.

[@AstroAnalysis]

Strongly agree!

[@jasminehernandez4914]

You can’t be serious 😂

[@captainobvious8037]

Jasmine, i think you need to specify what you are talking about

[@juanaabad7315]

Sooo you do realize it’s based on a both Roman and Egyptian mythology (religion)

[@dancingdani25]

100% agree

[@shay1626]

as someone who is studying psychology and therapy, i was so mad when she called psychology a 'soft science' and equated it with astrology. astrology is a pseudoscience. psychology does have a long way to go compared to other sciences, but that's only because it's new. not because it's, in any way, similar to astrology. someone with their mind-set studying therapy and being a future therapist scares me.

[@mihael2800]

Psychology is extremlly useful, but it is a soft science since psychological hypothesis cant be empirically and 100% proven.

[@Gunslinger246]

Literally, one of the first things I was taught when I did Psychology at University was that Astrology was a pseudoscience since it was based on faith and didn't use the scientific method.

[@iimdone]

it is soft science though if you compare it to biology. it has a long way to go like you said, but i do agree its nothing like astrology. astrology is basically like religion lmao

[@gacabrera9170]

Psychology is considered a social science just like Economics, which is respectable

[@Tirtougay]

It’s is extremely ethically and practically challenging to isolate independent variables when it comes to human beings, which is something that must be done over and over again in studies for the science to become predictive, meaning psychology is still a soft science. There are still strong correlational findings, obtained through psychology by employing the scientific method, that can be shown over time to be extremely relevant for practical use. There will be exceptions, but it’s useful. Astrology on the other hand does not stand up to any stress test employed using the scientific method, often being beaten out by randomness in tests of predictive ability. I just wish astrologers stayed in their lane and didn’t improperly hijack scientific disciplines to try and legitimize their otherwise harmless hobby. When the astrologer dude brought thermodynamics into it I was unamused 🤪

[@OasisMilo]

"I can only go off of planets like the moon or the sun" This guy is truly an expert

[@wolfpuppclips2371]

"Is astrology a science?" "No" There you go, saved you 22 minutes.

[@Jamangel]

Lolll

[@kstishko6771]

Thanks cap

[@micahroohi9687]

fax

[@scarletXlune]

It's more a mythology/legend connected to the symbols. Everyone has their own interpretation tho so I'm not gunna go that rabbit hole lmao

[@christopherstein2024]

@@scarletXlune So it's fiction.

[@domdubz7037]

“I’m a cancer rising so I feel and know from personal experiences” - definitely a scientist.

[@KuldeepDaftary]

I think she did agree that she's not a scientist and she doesnt think astrology is a science.

[@mohamed_is_him]

"Feel" is the key word here

[@cherryblush2312]

I have read this one at 16:00 xd

[@helenhelmi8129]

I think that Mars representing aggression and Venus representing love is a matter of Greek mythology, not the universe. The planets in our solar system were named after Roman Gods by us humans, so I believe it’s evident that Mars representing aggression is quite arbitrary, because Mars could have been named Venus. I felt like astronomers supported their claims way better than astrologists did.

[@Mamatruffle]

I wish they had chosen a more practically spoken person for one of the astrologers. We don’t all talk as vaguely as they did.

[@ebonyhardiman7519]

We mentioned the mythology and archetypes in the video, unfornately it was edited out. But we definitely talked about that

[@ebonyhardiman7519]

@@Mamatruffle there were a lot of things edited out of the video because there was a lot that we did explain very practically and you can't tell from the final result which is frustrating

[@kadijahmcintosh1055]

Greeks were the first who studied the stars and stuff and later called it astrology

[@synlion]

@@ebonyhardiman7519 how did you tie them to astrology?

[@trashpanda2219]

I was really happy when Ashley brought up correlation vs causation, because it seemed to me that that was one of the largest divides between the groups.

[@scrollreader7355]

Sofia at one point sounded like she was starting to explain confirmation bias too. I don't know if they just kinda cut out some of that or if she actually didn't go all the way with it but I do wish she'd carried that point as far as I think it could have gone in the video because correlation vs causation and confirmation bias are probably the single two biggest perpetrators of pseudoscience.

[@superflashyariel3835]

I was happy about that too. People seem to forget that correlation does NOT equal causation.

[@breshaunbutler8904]

Hearing someone say that psychology is a “soft science” and not rooted in the science method is bewildering to me being because there is absolutely no way that she knows about psychology if she made that statement. I’m getting my Masters in Clinical Psychology currently and plan to get my PhD. The amount of research and studies that are done to prove what we know is astronomical. Rant over 😅 I just got very triggered because I work my ass of to study certain topics and constantly have professors down my throat if I say/ write a statement that isn’t backed by citations.

[@downwiththeclique7239]

That part on the citations

[@coolio4843]

in my school psychology is in the college of liberal arts (a non science school) and not in the same school as chemistry, biology, physics, medicine. i am not sure why. i am just saying that a lot of people think psychology is up for interpretation because you can go to many different doctors and they not all diagnose you the same way.

[@elizabethbauer5255]

Yes!!!

[@gypsyhannie]

HERE HERE. I'm a psych student as well and I was totally triggered by that too.

[@priscieyango9798]

Psychology follows the empirical method, so definitely natural sciences. The confusion is that it is a hybrid of art and science. Those who majored in the arts of psychology often do not get exposed to the sciences however those who major in science of psychology get the exposure to both. I think she's the former

[@gerlokwolkenbrutzler6616]

Video recommendation for Jubilee: Astrologists Vs Psychologists would be a more fitting pairing for a discussion, since astrologist and psychologist (personality psychologist) both essentially try to do the same thing. They both try to describe and predict personality, behaviour etc. Astronomists and astrologists are trying to do completely different things. Astronomists have nothing to do with describing personality or behaviour. They try to figure out the physical attributes of celestial bodies.

[@happystanner1280]

i feel like it'd be the same with this video because psychology is based on scientific facts and research? people go to school and major in psychology? study different theories of physicians? yes, psychology studies behaviors and mind but it's different with astrologists because they based it off celestial objects and psychology just based it on research and experiments? idk how it'd go but i'd like to see it if they can make it happen lol

[@gerlokwolkenbrutzler6616]

@@happystanner1280 can you clarify your point for me? I cannot figure out what you're trying to say. (I'm earnest. I really want to understand you)

[@aria1314]

maybe astrologist vs philosophers?

[@happystanner1280]

@@gerlokwolkenbrutzler6616 im saying that this video will be the same with psychologists/astrologists if ever bc psychology is based of scientific facts and research. psychology study behavior and astrology predicts behavior.

[@anaap513]

@@happystanner1280 I just lost some of my braincells reading this comment. Read the first comment and comeback.

[@TyIerTheCreatorLover]

I find it so funny how they introduce themselves astronomers “literally has zero proof” and astrologers are like “ the crystal energy of Jupiter’s is making me think about spaghetti for my own safety”

[@Cshaw_13]

Lmao 😂😂😂

[@lalagurl71]

My heart died when she said psychology doesn’t use the scientific method... it is a real science people !

[@confidential303]

it b is kind a sad that you are studying psychology , the real psychologists were open minded in those days

[@PresidentJeanAuguste]

@@confidential303 Your sudden reponse after 4 months is news to me

[@silvervixen007]

Yeah.. I don't know why she said that

[@jailafrappecommetaimes2931]

Its ability to experiment effectively is very limited by ethics and uncontrollable variables, it doesn’t sit at the same standards as the natural sciences

[@Senriam]

Ehhhhh, speaking as an individual pursuing a graduate degree, I’d have to say that there are plenty of individuals in the scientific community who are skeptical of psychology’s status as a science.

[@HouseMDaddict]

As a person with a psychology background astrology is not in the same vein. Astrology is closer to a religion than a science. It's based on beliefs and interpretations. Psychology is actually based on neuroscience and chemical imbalances which you measure and see.

[@chaithusridhar7]

I agree, bur psychology can't always be supported by science either... therapists often look at different people and diagnose and therapizine based on who they are and their stories and beliefs not just what their brain looks like

[@alanisf5416]

yes it surprised me that someone who studied psychology belives in astrology because you can explain most of personality traits by peoples backstory not a zodiac sign

[@jinjunliu2401]

Didn't the replication crisis also affect psychology? Isn't there a lot of p-hacking going on in this field? 👀

[@ntr10me]

Hi, could you clarify how Psychiatry fits into this as well if you get a moment? Cheers

[@genevalillis6756]

That is exactly what I was thinking. When I heard that comparison in the video, I had to pause.

[@aminephus]

when he talked about shakras and energy confidently as if he is giving an argument and not making it worse lol

[@Numb_]

i thought he was about to start talking about naruto

[@pixelpudding3914]

@@Numb_ no but same!

[@sweetxangel2880]

@@Numb_ I thought he was gonna throw those hand signs

[@saveUyghurs]

It’s chakras

[@joshuataylor3550]

Looking for this comment, thanks

[@aurelien_le_oreo]

"I can only go off of planets that are like in orbit like THE MOON THE SUN". Bro skipped science class since birth

[@cWjkL8ysxOkrH66]

I love how every time the astronomers asked where did the association between certain planets and emotions came from the astrologers would simply start listing what planet is associated with each emotion.

[@ctogive]

Or how that guy said astrology has to be a science because they use math and charts

[@altaccount9716]

Im surprised the astronomers said something wrong. 13:50. So the thing about that is that it is because of the speed of light, and it took that long for the light to reach you. But it's not only the speed of light. it's the maximum speed of the universe. For example, if the Sun disappeared, we wouldn't know for around eight minutes. That's because that's how long the light would take to reach us. But it's not only the light. it's everything that affects us from the sun, like the gravitational pull. The gravitational pull wouldn't be noticed instantly ethier it would be noticed when we saw the light. That's because everything's maximum speed is the speed of light. So if this beetlejuice plant/star, i don't know what it is, disappeared, we wouldn't feel the effects of its disappearance until we saw the light. Sorry if the English is bad, im only 15, and im not from an English speaking country. Also, source: i learned this from watching a video from Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

[@viniwittke]

@@altaccount9716 While you're correct about the gravity, quantum entanglement seems to be defying that definition of "maximum speed of the universe". Sure, we both don't know anything about quantum mechanics, but it is what scientists are saying. Quantum entanglement would "travel" in space-time instantly, or so it seems.

[@MatthewJohnson-hi2th]

​@@viniwittkepretty sure this isn't true, and that quantum entanglement can't actually allow transfer of any amount of information faster than the speed of light. There is what appears to be "simultaneous" events taking place at a distance wrt some frame of reference, but no information can be transferred in the process. I'm not an expert though, I'd suggest looking into the EPR paradox if you want to learn more.

[@viniwittke]

@@MatthewJohnson-hi2th Nice, I read more about it and found out about the "no-communication theorem". Interestingly enough, not even scientist are sure about it, therefore it's still only a theorem. But if there is one thing I learned from looking at the past is you can't believe our boundaries of science will remain the same through the decades/centuries. Without any reason beyond belief in the human capabilities, I think eventually humanity will find a faster way (to at least send information) through space-time. Cheers and thanks for the comment!

[@Mason-lr5dz]

One thing that stood out to me is how often the astronomers asked questions about what the astrologists believe, compared to how often the astrologists asked.

[@dwighteldrichmanaol8922]

That's cuz they have to "defend" astrology whereas astronomy is set in stone.

[@tomotrono242]

what ive gathered and i might be wrong is that astrology is a religion

[@a-jjjjjjj]

Why would they ask questions about what the astronomers believe? Astronomy is widely accepted so they don't really need to defend their beliefs, nor would the astrologists be confused about what they think.

[@dasani.like.the.water.]

@@tomotrono242Pretty much. It’s a belief system with no scientific evidence to back it up. So yeah, exactly like a religion.

[@mindhackz]

@@dwighteldrichmanaol8922If by set in stone you mean observable, ok.

[@Bigdaddyn744]

Astrology works because they have a large list of qualities that 'could' apply to basically every person.

[@dalaleela1453]

Ur right

[@kiraparson2746]

You should look up your birth chart

[@Bigdaddyn744]

@@kiraparson2746 I shouldn't

[@carlacista242]

You know what, it doesn't work like that, I've seen people sh*tting on astrology too much in this comment section. If you don't know someone that actually studied astrology than do not talk about it like you know it so well, no you didn't find the trope. What you are talking about is the commercial and cheap astrology. Astrologers study for a reason, please be respectful (from person who is currently studying astrology)

[@unratutox1543]

@@carlacista242 studying astrology is like studying religion. If it makes you happy go for it but don't treat it as a real science and don't let it affectbthe way you treat others.

[@BryanKeith01]

One group clearly thinks logically and the other thinks based on their feelings and emotions

[@firstylasty9417]

*Scientist wince-of-restraint montage:* 5:47 6:35 9:15 11:19 12:32 15:04 17:40 19:31 20:27 *Bonus astrologist wince and circuitry melt:* 13:26 15:07

[@MishaLUL]

Lmfao

[@xKamomile]

Bahaha you're the best for this

[@firstylasty9417]

@@xKamomile Viva la science. :)

[@justanotherrandomperson180]

lmao💀

[@chioptnstdr3448]

G.O.A.T

[@ghillies4life]

Scientist: humble enough to say "I'm not an evolutionary biologist..." and basically saying, "That's not something I'm knowledgeable about." Astrologer: "I'm a cancer rising, so I know about periods through my feelings. "

[@Purviloveslife]

😂😂😂

[@bloxythedude2683]

@Tammy 23 y.o - check my vidéó strange, can see the exact same comment right below this. don't copy other peoples comments please.

[@basmalasaad3039]

Dont forget the "I can feel the moon" (to an astronomer, no less🤦‍♀️

[@jamrollz]

dunning kruger intensifies

[@abc6459]

If I hear "energies" 1 more time I'm gonna scream

[@kwesibruno]

E...ah, fuck it.

[@roberttramone9967]

@@kwesibruno Challenge everything!

[@aspebb]

La energia

[@terrancesilvermistbenjamin9864]

Oof that’s some strong energies I feel coming your way. What’s your sign? Lol

[@mariana457]

Energy 😂👀

[@stacieberries]

21:15 I totally agree with this comparison. Astrology = art Astronomy = science

[@liamchapman6889]

My favourite episodes of Middle Ground are the ones where you just annoy scientists for 30 minutes

[@scrappybastard]

This made me choke laughing

[@wildhorses1339]

😂facts

[@oak3785]

when he said "when the moon is far it's less waves" and the astronomer was like "ehhhhh" LMAOO i remember doing the moon's gravitational forces in classical mechanics and being surprised that being far also increases waves and not decrease them

[@andreworbs]

One peice.

[@bradlytshigeng7350]

Heart pirates! Let's go!!!

[@oak3785]

@@bradlytshigeng7350 ROOM

[@sciencecompliance235]

The moon being further away would make for smaller tidal changes, but the tides depend on both the Moon AND the Sun and also where on Earth you are relative to the positions of these objects.

[@omnium_gatherum]

"I'm not an evolutionary biologist so I don't know-" "Sure sure sure... I'm a cancer riiising..."

[@JabranImran]

11:48 Its authentic

[@omnium_gatherum]

@@JabranImran 🤣🤣

[@myprettygirl91]

🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭😭😭

[@omnium_gatherum]

@@myprettygirl91 😂😂 watched that like "here we gooo 🙄"

[@maria-xq8yw]

this part made me laugh so damn hard

[@shannondouglass3044]

Ashley, for the win! I just loved her throughout this whole episode. I really liked this discussion though, they were pretty much all very respectful towards each other.

[@dioggo3532]

As much as I disagree with astrology, but kudos to the astrologists for having a polite debate unlike the other middle ground videos

[@ballin1006]

Ikr just watch the flat earth vid

[@archiviste209]

@@ballin1006 LMAO EXACTLY IM SO GLAD THEY DIDNT BLATANTLY DISRESPECT THE ASTRONOMERS EVEN THOUGH THEY STRONGLY BELIEVED IN THEIR BELIEFS 😭 the flat earthers were so bad

[@kissme1518]

They get kudos for not being raving children gotcha.

[@firstylasty9417]

I meeean. Also, kudos to the astronomers for not further SLAYING the astrologists into oblivion.

[@danielshawn6318]

@@archiviste209 being called uneducated after yrs of physics by dan the water guy🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@hc7092]

Can’t believe Jubilee still haven’t done Africans v African Americans 😭

[@robertking4645]

I assume it sort of not easy to find real Africans and get them to participate in your videos.

[@noemiepalan7247]

Ikr

[@bobaGogo]

@@robertking4645 Africa is a big continent, shouldn't be that difficult to find someone in Africa who would be interested in participating

[@mrsxber1916]

@@robertking4645 agreed especially in the US lol. Legit theyd have to go search for Africans who just moved to the US

[@Aasmaa07]

They could do 1st generation Africans or international students/workers. I am sure there are some in California

[@aaronncollier96]

Astronomers: "So why do you believe in astrology?" Astrologers: "Energy"

[@mihirkadam8669]

classic example of pseudo science being to used to its maximum limit. "we are 70% water " xd

[@dariascult]

astrology is not a BELIEF.

[@Blue74]

@@dariascult Then what is it?

[@kadijahmcintosh1055]

That exactly what astrology is so what are you trying to imply?

[@Blue74]

@@kadijahmcintosh1055 Define energy

[@strider7362]

Damn those bazonkazonks on Ashley jumpscared me like the Xenomorph

[@victoriavvc]

I want round 2 with a different group of astrologers, and I think it would be fun if there was a 1 on 1 segment where an astronomer gets a birth chart reading

[@veganwaffle]

And then the astronomers would show them what a constellation looks like at from every angle or what they would look like in the future or the past.

[@uglymelon6721]

Omg yes to both of these!

[@hollyfae_art]

@@veganwaffle this wouldn’t really matter to them because it’s about the measurements of the view of the sky from the earth (measured in degrees), not about the placement of the stars

[@paulaJaramillo1000]

Yesss

[@Danielagostinho21]

I want a odd one out between astrologers and astronomers

[@thegdin]

The body language on the astronomers is priceless. I so understand their internal frustration

[@graceabyyy]

😂

[@karinacampos6915]

True patience because I could never 😂😂

[@morbillionaire2785]

Hear me out People in this video are so packed up This is what i notice😆

[@littlethings3923]

How do everyone on this show comes with so much patience? The amount of time I rolled my eyes in this episode is in 100s.. Where do you find this calm people?

[@CleoraAleise]

What is there to be upset about? Someone will always have a difference in opinion.

[@mariosmatzoros3553]

@@CleoraAleise Except for the fact that one of the sides is based on facts and the other is based on ludicrous made up things and opinions.

[@luckyduck_.]

@@mariosmatzoros3553 in your opinion

[@jjordynnn8740]

@@luckyduck_. no its not an opinion its a fact. One is made up of literal science and proof the other is backed by opinions thoughts and feelings.

[@luckyduck_.]

@@jjordynnn8740 again in your opinion

[@l3vyy95]

You don’t learn the secrets of a planet by staring at it with your own eyes and inner feelings. You learn its secrets by closely observing it and studying it with scientific methods.

[@deboramdegella2992]

The patience to have this conversation is above me... Respect to these astronomers. 🙏🏾

[@znull3356]

I really have no idea how they stayed so composed. Patience of saints.

[@ballin1006]

Yes

[@rottworks]

I know I couldn't. I even had to pause the video multiple times. 😂

[@jameskirk8274]

“So you just get to choose?” “Well… it’s based of really resonates with you” So yeah, you just get to choose lmao

[@bellaancheta5407]

Right lmaooo

[@sumerurose8586]

not how it works but it's not something you could explain or understand from the outside you'd have to get into it yourself intuition is a feeling most people dont know much about

[@jameskirk8274]

@@sumerurose8586 uh… if they were all a real science then they would be equally true. If it’s based off of feeling, it’s literally a choice. Like “hmmm, idk which car to choose. I’m gonna pick this one”

[@sumerurose8586]

@@jameskirk8274 i didnt say its a science... and like i said you either understand or you don't but leading a life without intuition or gut feeling and only facts and logic sounds a bit sad to me

[@jameskirk8274]

@@sumerurose8586 but he was defending it as a science. I get that you’re not, but his reasoning that he uses math and it’s therefore science and as repeatably true as science falls apart immediately when he said you have to find what “resonates” with you; a choice.

[@bribhoney]

I like how the Astronomers, the scientist are trying to find nice words to replace the words they really want to say about something the Astrologist is describing or saying.

[@SofiaCavalcante]

LOL Sofia is fighting SO HARD

[@TheWinters814]

I gotta hand it to them for keeping it mostly civil and understanding because I know this series can get heated really quickly

[@liv482]

I feel like a conversation between astrologists and psychologists would have helpful and productive for the discussion. For example, psychologists (or even an evolutionary biologist) would be able to explain all the research that have been done on nature vs nurture, as well as the science behind bias studies such as hindsight bias and people's tendency to find patterns in random events. Psychologists ARE a REAL SCIENCE by the way. Absolutely infuriating that they said otherwise.

[@nickgarcia6572]

YES! I couldn't help but noticing how the astrologers are affected SO much by confirmation bias, hindsight bias, and so on. They really all three need to take some Psych classes. For all they think they understand about human psychology... yeah. They have no clue what it actually is.

[@th-ck9vl]

My biology teacher warned me away from evolutionary psychology so idk. He said most of it is conjecture?

[@katringlass2140]

psychology is not science, it is just looking at behavior and seeing patterns and using these to heal people‘s minds. the chemical imbalance theory has been debunked long ago, so psychology really hasn‘t anything to do with science, but with observation of behavior. tell me one psychological practice that is scientific and not behavioral and hasn‘t been banned cos it‘s cruel?

[@xh56758]

@@katringlass2140 Lol , all modern psychology is done using a empirical method compatible with scientific method. Chemical imbalance theory was created in the 1950's 😂 .

[@voyance4elle]

yay for that