Can We Please Just Let Avatar Die Already? | Glass of Water

[@via29]

I once read a quote from Miyazaki explaining why he didn’t like the state of anime nowadays; he said he felt that the people making them only ever consumed anime for their own entertainment, and they don’t spend enough time consuming other forms of media or even going out enough to experience life, which would make their own stories richer. I feel that theory can also apply to western cartoons with a lot of them becoming very same-y.

[@korinoriz]

@@ateliermink6340 Your description and use of "animation inbreeding" is a great way to summarize what I've been saying to people. I am going to use that now. Thanks!

[@korinoriz]

What's weird is anime fans already sort of abandoned western animation because "it's all kids shows" "they're all episodic comedies" or whatever they're saying these days. While true it isn't as diverse as anime, as diverse as anime is it still falls victim to the law of averages and well also has issues of being samey as a means of playing it safe and make money (much like western media). Look at the abundance of iseikai anime the past decade. Which within itself "subversions" of iseikai have become the norm now and are no longer "subversions". I kinda switched topics, but that's my rant. Doesn't help popular anime, which are often shounen, are children's shows but people are unaware of that due to cultural/regulatory differences.

[@silver1340]

"...even going out enough to experience life, which would make their own stories richer." THAT! No. 1 rule of writing: Don't write about things you don't understand. The thing in anime that always gets me is poor representation of racism, which is always accompanied with fucking cat girls or whatever, as if saying that racism is only hating a person with animal ears.

[@Jlukecampos]

The anime director Naoko Yamada defies this. I believe her inspiration pulls heavily from movies and more avant garde animation. Her movie, liz and the blue bird really highlights her art direction.

[@saladcaesar7716]

Yeah. The consequences of too many anime fans working in the industry.

[@monkeymaster8175]

Your point of “you showed up for a fight you won years ago” probably the best point you made. A show doesn’t need to have darker,deeper themes to be influential. Avatar was great because it was goofy and it had a nice message. Calling it a “happy accident” isn’t fair and it’s disingenuous. People should broaden their media consumption yes, but if Avatar is someone’s favorite show then it’s their favorite show. It’s really not all that deep.

[@LilianOrchard]

I called it a happy accident because everything the writers made afterward was rancid dogshit

[@Lovehandels]

People are still getting uppidy about this topic because the Oscars keeps passively dumping on animated works.....I want to say "It's the Oscars who cares" but enough people seem to care.

[@elsiekibler3160]

@@Lovehandels I guess that's true, but the Oscars have bigger problems then being somewhat condescending about animation, like the lack of diversity their nominations. My attitude about the Oscars at this point is "Oh, a bunch of rich white people in Hollywood are full of shit? Must be a day that ends in Y"

[@chrishaven1489]

@@elsiekibler3160 Okay, I'm gonna be that guy that points out that the Oscars would never have given ATLA the time of day because it's a TV show, not because it's an animation. Oscars are for films. Emmys are for TV shows. Golden Globes are for both. Doesn't make the discussion any less relevant. I just felt I needed to point that out

[@michaelcozzi9637]

Chris Haven I would say that the battle was won when it comes to millennials and Gen Z, but not Boomers or Gen Xers. People should just ignore these age groups because they aren’t going to watch these shows anyway, they’ll only do so when they want something to blame for people becoming more accepting of diversity like in the Owl House TV show.

[@adrianadamsson6757]

I agree that what makes Avatar great is its characters. When I was younger Zuko used to be my favorite. But this has switched to Azula as I got older. The abuse Zuko went through is rather obvious, but with Azula, it is actually far more subtle and insidious, but she is nontheless just as much a abuse victim as Zuko. Azula was brainwashed into a hyper-nationalistic ideology from birth, her immense firebending talent drawing favour of her father who essentially raised her as a child soldier. The love of her father being being condtional only for her skills, her knowing full well what happens to those who doesn't live up to her father's expectations. Which made Azula into a perfectionist who fears failure of any kind. Which is why she is so intent to succeed at even the most trivial thing such as beachball. Azula's fear based relationship with Mai and Ty Lee is also likely a reflection of her relationship with her father who controls her through fear. The reason Azula has a breakdown at the end of the show is largely because of Ozai's abusive parenting strategy, because after Zuko, Mai, Ty Lee and Ozai betrays her she realizes that the basis which she based all her relationships on is a lie. Showcasing that abuse isn't just the obvious things like physically hurting someone. Azula is just as scarred by abuse as Zuko, just that her scars are not visible.

[@Wwhdduendjdhhfmwosdn]

Did you see the video analyzing her? I freaking love it

[@Wwhdduendjdhhfmwosdn]

Shoot forgot the tittle, it’s something like the psychology of Azusa

[@adrianadamsson6757]

@@Wwhdduendjdhhfmwosdn I did once long ago, it is a very good video. I definitely think that Azula could be helped if she got therapy, even if it might be a long process.

[@marquistf1996]

@James Bones no one's making excuses for her. She was raised to be a child soldier by a dictator who was abusive, racist and emotionally unavailable. The same person who attempted to kill her brother multiple times. It's understandable why she became what she was, NOT justifiable.

[@saragoodman1020]

Honestly, the mark of a good show is how memorable and universally loved the characters are. Everyone remembers the characters in avatar, because they stood out and had unique personalities and lines. But you don't hear anyone really talking about the characters from the Dragon prince or any of the other copycats. One of my favourite shows of all time is Phineas and ferb. In that show, it's the exact same formula for every episode, which gives tons of room for comedy, running gags and occasionally heartwarming character moments. And everyone remembers the characters from that show. Phineas and ferb, candace and Jeremy, and especially Dr Doofenshmirtz and Perry the platypus. The formula never gets old because it's so simple, explored differently in each episode and almost impossible to fuck up with melodrama and angst. Sorry for the rant, I love that show and wanted to gush about it.

[@zactyl8387]

At least in the spanish speaking comunities, Rayla had her time of fame. Still, maybe they could had an oportunity with the fourth season if Aaron was nicer with his female staff

[@zactyl8387]

@hi there Okay, they just planned rally badly the use of their Characters

[@gruffen4]

People always sleep on the Scottish elves. Rayla was a darling

[@thalmoragent9344]

Yeah, I heard Dragon Prince was a decent show but, it's not really all that big when you go around and realize it has a very isolated fanbase now

[@scarletempress2652]

@hi there They planned for like six or seven, but weren’t sure if the third one was going to be the last or not. Which explains most of the weirdness of season 3 imo. Well they’re confirmed for 7 now I think so I am looking forward to what they have in store for it now that they don’t have to worry about the next season being their last. (This was I believe was a big problem with Korra)

[@karenroque3583]

My single most favorite exchange ever from ATLA will always be Sokka: “Don’t answer to twinkle toes, it’s not manly!” Katara: “You’re the one who’s bag matches his belt” I remember a lot of great scenes of dialogue but this one always seems to come immediately bubbling up anytime I so much as see a screenshot of this show and it never fails to make me smile. People who think animation needs to be epic or grand in order to feel like it can be taken seriously when it’s the humor that became the major draw towards animation in the first place need to get their priorities in check. If it wasn’t for the charming character interactions, ATLA wouldn’t have been nearly as fun to watch. It’s why the live action movie did so poorly. To this day, my favorite manga series(one that I’ve been collecting since I was 13) is about a little girl just living her best life. No heavy high stakes plot elements, no dramatic story arcs, no needlessly convoluted or depressing moments. Just a five year old kid experiencing everything like a kid would. It’s cute, it’s hilarious, and very sweet. Hell in the first volume they straight up admit that she was adopted (and said so casually too) and yet she never once voices or even questions the legitimacy of her relationship with her single father. And the only reason it was brought up at all was because she started mimicking her neighbors by calling their mother “mom” too. Not because she actually thinks she’s her mom but because she thinks that’s literally her name. And they never correct her. The books are entirely run on what hijinks the main characters will involve themselves with that day. And the one chapter that made me legit cry was when her father sees her try on her school pack for the first time and he remembers when she first called him Dad as a baby and he just starts crying into his hand. That’s the good shit. Action, drama, and adventure are all fine and dandy, but I don’t care for any of it if I don’t feel that level of wholesomeness from its characters.

[@ladybug1146]

what's the name of that manga?

[@karenroque3583]

@@ladybug1146 it’s called Yotsuba&!

[@niyaodom1944]

That sounds like the most fluffy and wholesome shit and I’ve been severely lacking in it; thank you for the recommendation I will wholeheartedly eat good when I find it :3

[@scarletempress2652]

Avatar was epic and grand. It also had very good character writing. People like both and they’re not like mutually exclusive. I mean people always talk about how great ATLA’s characters are?! Jesus a lot of the discussion here seems just so out of touch with what the actual avatar community is like.

[@MamotteLollpop123]

⁠@@karenroque3583omg I used to love Yotsuba!

[@carlcarlington7317]

The trope of “the power of friendship” makes a lot more sense when one realizes that most big bad villains work as a stand in for the psychological dread of nihilism. What do you do when it seems that life is nothing more the meaningless suffering? Well you find meaning by way of connecting with others. Even if situation seems absolutely hopeless you still have to fight, because at the end of the day even if life is meaningless suffering you and other people still have to experience it. Hell final fantasy 13 works thematically when you realize this, not in practice mind you but thematically. Why do the good guys just come back after being turned into zombies? Because that’s the point. Why do the fal-cue just give people strange visions that barely makes sense?Why is everything in terms of world building in data logs? Because life is a confusing mess that often doesn’t make sense and that’s the point. I’d never say ff13 pulled these themes off well but the themes ARE there and seeing them makes understanding the story a lot easier

[@mysticwayfinder3578]

"Behold! A show that proves animation can be mature!" "Sheen, this is the seventh week in a row."

[@dango470]

I only get excited about animated feature films these days (these daysbbeing past decade or so) Animation is usually very mature because the creators arent just indulging in whatever cool comic book nerd nonsense, but they're given a task of creating a story children can grasp, which is also compelling to their parents. They are also beholden to the kind of messaging they are putting out, they cant just resolve all conflict by punching wrong evil poopoo heads in the face, and they have to conscious about even having wrong evil poopoo heads because what kind of a message does that send out? Its like CS Lewis says about fairytales, it takes a certain kind of insecure adolescent mind to think that they're not mature and that you need something more

[@roryaphunter]

ATLA is one of my favourite tv shows… and I see exactly where you’re coming from. Variety is the spice of life dammit.

[@snowcraft-d3d]

Every time I hear Lily's "Not-video" voice it always throws me off, because I'm so used to hearing Lily sound like she's ready to snap the next idiot that crosses her path in half. It's a beautiful voice, but gosh it always comes so unexpectedly it takes me a second to realise "Oh yeah, that's Lily's usual speaking voice."

[@thelunardove1008]

Good showing! I do admit that I was one of THOSE fans who was obsessed with finding the next “Avatar”. But, when I graduated from college to vet school, I simply didn’t had the time to obsess; I had more important stuff to do. Even when I had the time to watch, I could only really enjoy the more surface level stuff, like comedy. So, yeah long story short: I listen/watch cartoons in the background while doing other things eg: knitting, playing video games, cleaning, etc. Hope that this make sense to anyone.

[@om8039]

Funny the next avatar is actually everyone of us…. As we grow and mature we learn about the world and learn about the 4 elements….

[@pupstuff4389]

I expected a rant, got one, but also got advice curating my media diet. I am never disappointed by this channel

[@ayannabranchcomb7535]

This is why I follow Lily, I barely watch the things she discusses but damn does she challenge my media consumption

[@bananarnold1831]

This aged very well.

[@goldencyclone4984]

My brain is so corrupted by memes that I heard "We don't need another Avatar, we already had it" and IMMEDIATELY created the Frodo meme in my head of "What about Second Avatar?"

[@Not_Vakama_303]

I’m calling it now, within a decade or two, gravity falls will become avatar in this way.

[@toast1851]

It has and will always bother me how people compare the series to other works. Yes, Avatar is a fantastically written show, but it’s absolutely tiring and exhausting to hear the exact same arguments pushed amongst other shows, attempting to frame them as “the new avatar” or “in need of avatars writing” as if the show is the greatest thing to ever have been crafted. It’s not groundbreaking, it’s just a greatly written show that needs to stop being compared to other works. Avatar had its run, it was fun and good but it’s over now, we got our fill and I don’t see why people think shows “need” to be just like them despite how Avatar isn’t the greatest thing ever.

[@warknightxl2167]

Yea, it's pretty stupid that a small but vocal minority think that a cartoon show should be exactly like avatar for now on. Avatar may be a well written show, but it should not be a example on how to make a good cartoon show. There are so many cartoons that great in their own way.

[@apnosaurus]

Bluey is this generation's avatar and it has none of that worldbuilding or fight scenes.

[@a.l.i.e.n.c.o.d.e.]

Y'know, this commentary on the Avatar fanbase is jogging a memory for me. I was around 15, and had stumbled across one of those D.C. collection DVDs with one or two episodes of a bunch of different cartoons. The last two episodes were Teen Titans' "Go" and "Terra". I watched them, and then I turned to KZbin to devour every compilation video I could find: ship stuff, Robin and Slade stuff, Terra stuff, and of course Raven-is-a-tormented-soul-who's-literally-the-spawn-of-the-devil-but-is-willing-to-die-to-be-good stuff. So imagine my surprise when, about a year later, I watched one of the many episodes that didn't have anything to do with that stuff. I was stunned! Where was all the edgy?? All those selected snippets set me up for thinking that this was a much different show! My point is that the closest thing I would compare ATLA's fandom to is Teen Titan's fandom. They want to praise and re-share the "cool" things and supply fuel for the shipping wars, but when it comes to the funny faces and the potty humor they really want to convince people it didn't happen.

[@scarletempress2652]

I’ve seen a lot of memes about the funny faces so I don’t think you’re entirely right…

[@itoo4884]

This! The Trinity for me was Teen Titans (or Mystery Incorporated...sorry Young Justice fans), ATLA, and Ultimate Spider-Man.

[@a.l.i.e.n.c.o.d.e.]

@@scarletempress2652 I suppose that's fair. I like them, but my mom is addicted to puns and goofy stuff so I over-correct my thinking sometimes.

[@Robohead-z6z]

But they hate TTG for potty humor…

[@cadweirdness6133]

This reminds me of a writing project I was working on with someone and the guy was like. "Let's have 5 different fight scenes." And that was his main priority, fight scenes. The problem with that is fight scenes are not what makes a good story, nobody gives a shit if you can write or draw a good fight scene if you don't care about the characters and the story and only care about the flashy fight scenes, nobody will care.

[@snowcloudd]

Also you’ll often find that the best, most hype fight scenes are ones with heavy, significant, character story related backstories- that’s where the impact relies. It’s really unfortunate how people brush off the importance of characters and well written stories, but I guess its rarity is also what makes it so intimate when you find someone else who gets it.

[@twisted_jinx1603]

Reminds me of RWBY. The fight scenes between the characters were the best because the characters weren’t being talky talky exposition about some stupid world-building thing that changed based on how the writers were feeling (like how some of the characters semblances worked) and instead, the dialogue was more visual based. Meanwhile, the scenes in between were trying to stitch and balance themselves around the obligatory Monty Oum fight scenes and the 15 episodes that the writers dedicated to their boring, forgettable self inserts and how much their fictional girl crush in the series wanted to marry them.

[@ci7210]

Yeah even in pro wrestling. That's the point of the build for PPVs

[@alfredgomez3128]

Fringe enthusiasts will care about the physical aspects...they're not a wide audience to appeal to exclusively.

[@mirthless5603]

Yeah that's true for a lot of things,but what about Dragon Ball? It's pretty much just an excuse to go from cool fight scene to cool fight scene.

[@kuitti1634]

Yeah, it's a really good show, but it kinda gets tiring to hear every single new show being compared to it. Every new kind-of-fantasy-or-adventure show gets called 'the new Avatar'.

[@bobherse1997]

Some might say Avatar was the dark souls of children's animation. (I'm sorry I had to make that joke.)

[@Stitches000]

what they mean by the next avatar is the next big thing

[@JadeXHarley]

i didn't watch avatar until like a year and a half ago but i grew up seeing people talk about it on tumblr and i was honestly shocked by how different the show was than people made it out to be

[@FlamasNegras]

I honestly believe people are overly attached to Avatar because they still fail to understand why it works. The basic concept that this just works because it's an honest story for all ages doesn't click in their brains so they have to think of another reason. Avatar is great, the same way the original Star Wars movies are great. That doesn't mean I want everything to be Star Wars. And that is also why the Star Wars property have become so hit and miss in recent years. Sometimes, we like things because they are simple and have good morals. You don't need to evade that truth trying to write a thesis about how adult Avatar is O.O Also, I never needed more Avatar because, you know, I watch anime O.O

[@Palepetal]

Agreed, there is literally no way to make a "new Avatar" unless you want to make a carbon copy of the show. It's a great show and people can enjoy it, but there's plenty of other great media out there.

[@scarletempress2652]

People are attached to avatar because it’s a good show with good characters and world they like with a really good plot. Not because they’re idiots who ‘misunderstand’ it.

[@yoyoboy87]

Oh no, Lily fell into the Backrooms. Don’t worry, I’ll get a search party together. Just a little advice, avoid anything that doesn’t look human and anything that looks vaguely human.

[@LilianOrchard]

Instructions unclear. Made friends with a dog

[@yoyoboy87]

@@LilianOrchard That is not advised. Odds are that’s not a dog, it’s just wearing one.

[@niyaodom1944]

@@yoyoboy87 *CHRIST ALMIGHTY-*

[@sonicrulez6916]

@@LilianOrchard did you do the backrooms thing because you just wanted to see if the comments would either actually focus on the video or just talk about the backrooms

[@its-actually-ash496]

I know two types of fourteen year olds, there are the one that want the Owl House was going to be another Gravity Falls, and try to make it about theories and complain that there's "so much filler" in season one. And of course, want other shows to be like the "next Avatar". Then there's me and my friends, the ones who just want a show with charm and humor or something that'll make us cry. I kinda grew out of the theories and whenever I watch theories, I do it just to clock out and laugh.

[@thehayze259]

I'm pretty young too personally. Ever since I discovered Lily's channel, I'll be honest, I've been enjoying media more. When I was 13 or so, I was going to rewatch all of Legend of Korra (which I found very boring but refused to admit) out of a weird feeling of obligation, but then I watched Lily's video on it and realized what a mess it was. I didn't understand why I didn't like it and others did, so I felt like I had to keep theorizing and watching it to find "The Deeper Meaning behind the show." I felt less obligated to watch it once I realized it wasn't the perfect sequel to the perfect show. Lily's channel led me to watching better things like The Owl House. I've been loving the show for all of its flaws, much more than I loved The Dragon Prince. Lily helped me grow out of a phase I didn't know I didn't like. If you're reading this Lily, thank you.

[@jonmercano1138]

🎵Let it die, let it die, let it shrivel up and dieeeee🎵

[@epicfights7898]

Here before the vid even begins 😂 Ironically one of the messages of the show through the Guru was about detaching yourself from attachments so that you can allow your thoughts and Outlook to be more objective and see things beyond your personal desires and perspective. But the writing for that chakra kinda messed it up and said "detach for cosmic powers" instead. Guess what, those who keep comparing or trying to search for their "next Avatar" in other shows are failing to do just that and allow their personal attachment to cloud their thoughts. Stop letting ego decide that everything needs to be your "good as Avatar" standard. Much like how the show messed up its moral dilemma with the Firelord, we have to deal with those who think they are entitled to what they want and not think of outside perspective. Stop comparing everything to Avatar, it is not the standard to base the quality of a show on.

[@gailasprey7787]

Avatar is great. But avatar shouldn’t be something compared to every show. It’s unfair to those shows. We’ve all asserted avatar is a fucking masterpiece so why compare shows made by new writers who need to be given a chance to avatar? It’s unfair. Like anyone who makes a comparison with Hazbin Hotel and Avatar. It’s just unfair to those shows. It’s like comparing a newbie tragedy writer to William Shakespeare right off the bat.

[@Theowolfboy1969]

I feel like the adults in the back need to see this and just let avatar finally die sure I like avatar but I don’t want every single show to be the next avatar

[@hiddenechoes]

Right? If I want to rewatch Avatar I will. I don't need a new show to be it again. Each story / show should be its own thing so we can see what we'd enjoy about it, rather than trying to be a callback to another thing we already like

[@Armaggedon185]

I rewatched all of Avatar with my family the previous summer, both TLA and LOK, and we had a great time. Even in LOK, there were a couple characters we got attached to that made it bearable, Tenzin most of all. It's disappointing that the discussions around these shows so often get lost in the reeds of worldbuilding, of magic systems and lore, that they ignore what really makes the show special.

[@xavierwhitcraft1310]

I kinda like most of LOK characters besides like Mako. Not that they are pinnacles of characters but for some reason i still love the LOK cast. Varrick, Tenzin, Bolin, Lin and Suyin are probably my highlight characters. I know some people don't like Lin but i thought that Lin was a super fun character even if she was an asshole at times. personally LOK is about a 7/10 for me overall.

[@jonathanlove7253]

So instead of another avatar we need more shows that have characters going as people,that in turn depict them as more human.

[@bradleyharris774]

As much as I like Avatar I can't help but agree that this show's success has poisoned the well and warped the perspective of a lot of people. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people online saying "Oh why can't this be like Avatar" or "These characters are just like X and Y from Avatar" over and over again. After the disaster that was Korra, I kinda want this franchise to just go away and die. I think Lily once said (correct me if I'm wrong) that she doesn't want "The Next Avatar" and I can see why. If some show somehow miraculously managed to catch the same lightning in a bottle Avatar did, then all this discourse will start anew except with the added bullshit of fans arguing over which show was better, Avatar or "The New Avatar".

[@twilightsilver6230]

I fully agree except for the point about Korra. Korra isnt terrible, but it's only a 6.5/10 for me.

[@Hezkun]

My theory is that people tend to form a different idea of what something that left a strong impression on them actually is, versus what it was actually like This leads to this weird dissonance between the actual medium themselves and what's actually there in reality Oh god I just described nostalgia

[@firemiracle]

I agree. I do love avatar, it has amazing fights, a good story, emotional moments, funny moments, and also has a very important message about how truly horrible war is, etc. but it is kinda annoying how many people consider it to be a "perfect" show. It's not. Yes, it's a great show, but not perfect. And it's sad how many other good shows are compared to avatar just because it's not like avatar 🫤

[@youtubeviolatedme7123]

I thought this was going to be a rant about the sequel to James Cameron's Avatar that's coming out later this year, but I watched the video pleasantly surprised. Although honestly, a lot of your points about ATLA could also translate over to the original Avatar. The simplistic morals appealing to pre-teens, the breakthrough in the public consciousness for animation etc. James Cameron's Avatar was a masterpiece... when I was fourteen.

[@watchm4ker]

Wait... Is it actually coming out this year?

[@Log-On-Line]

@@watchm4ker its meant to be

[@tyrkun1624]

The James Cameron film wasn't even that good tbh. Fans are hyping the sequel because of underwater cameras and not even the characters/plot.

[@uncolaman99]

Me too! I meant, I expected a rant about Cameron's FOUR sequels. The first movie was a visual feast, but had no cultural impact or relevance.

[@DrsJacksonn]

ATLA is still a masterpiece by a lot of measures today. I didn't get the appeal of James Cameron's Avatar even when it first came out.

[@robinhildebrand6012]

That goofiness and heart of the characters is the reason I love ALTA.

[@KaminoZan]

That might be the reason why ATLA didn't resonate with me as much as other people. When I was growing up I had already been exposed to cartoons that would tackle social/coming of age issues, like the 90's X-Men, Gargoyles, Beast Wars and Digimon. By the time I got around to Avatar, just a couple years ago, it was an enjoyable experience for the time that I watched it... but a lot of what made it so popular had already been done, and sometimes done better in those older shows.

[@dewott8251]

Welp, this is gonna certainly rile some feathers Can't wait to see this

[@alannadesilva]

this made me wish you had a show recommendations vid

[@metroidnerd9001]

Would you be able to explain a little further what you mean when you talk about the way Avatar treats its female characters? You've brought it up before, but I don't entirely understand your perspective on it. I know there are moments like in the fight between Azula and Suki in "Appa's Lost Days" where the dialogue is pretty questionable, but I think you're referring to a much larger and broader issue, and I would like to learn a new way of looking at the show from the perspective of someone with very different life experiences from me.

[@Roman-zu5wo]

Honestly “the little moments” are the problem, how people (or characters in this instance) treat women and girls day-to-day is a big issue, which leads to a lot of the larger issues. Atla can at times be very misogynistic reducing women and femininity to specific things like shopping and doing their hair etc etc. also saying inadvertently that girls should be feminine (yes toph isn’t but other girls like katara frequently think she’s not “as much” of a girl for that) or that being feminine is bad (toph insulting aang and katara for their feminine qualities and most of the main characters teasing sokka whenever he’s feminine) while there’s a lot more I could point out and cover since while being more progressive in some ways, it does tend to fall back on misogynistic or homophobic comedy I don’t think I could quite cover the scope of it in a KZbin comment. Hopefully this helped somewhat though, and sometimes rewatching it while looking out for subtle cases of things like misogyny can make them more apparent.

[@ThePrincessCH]

From my perspective, the females don't have as much character development as the males. The male protagonist in the series are constantly questioning their worth for Aang it's accepting the responsibility and consequences of being the Avatar, Sokka questions his worth as a man and as a member of the group and Zuko questions the legacy of his family and his nation. Their ideals are almost always being exposed and reexmanined, but the the girls don't have that same level of development. For instance, Toph to rely more on others and to have others rely on her, but those ideas are mostly relegated to a brief conversation with Iroh. Katara's ideology, on the other, is never placed into question, the series never paints her as being in the wrong with the same depth as the others. For example, in "Sokka's Master", when Sokka was questioning his worth on the team, she tried to console him by commenting on his map reading abilities, whereas Pian Dao lists qualities that speak to his character rather than a learned skill or a skill that is acquired by birth. Scenes like this imply that Katara may have internal biases towards non-benders, but that aspect of her character is never explored. We also don't get much context about Azula's character until the final season, and even then they don't provide a lot details.

[@patrickbliss9264]

"And its treatment of female characters is poor at best , or brasingly misogynistic at worst" is the hottest take on avatar I've ever heard . Care to explain?

[@om8039]

Zie probably didn’t see the whole series and talking out of zis ass. Female characters are the one of the most powerful in this series . Zie must be talking about the live action Mulan 2020 or The Sequel Series Star Wars where powers are pulled out of thin air…

[@patrickbliss9264]

@@om8039 who the fuck are you referring to as he ? At least have some basic decency even if you disagree with them . But yeah I do agree with your overall point.

[@seanurbik]

@@om8039 Transphobe in the replies? I thought ya'll had moved on by now...

[@om8039]

@@seanurbik what the heck are you talking about there’s nothing transphobic , you need ur eyes checks… read it carefully I just said that the females characters in Avatar were more fleshed out then Disney Mulan 2020 they were real characters not shells of characters… And I’m part of the LGBTQIA+ community how funny…

[@seanurbik]

@@om8039 So why call lily a he?

[@rafaelhernandezcaldelas4124]

9:43 "it's treatment of female characters is poor at best and misogynistic at worst" may I ask why? I'm really curious

[@archethomas6993]

"another show like avatar, that's not trying to be avatar, a solid cast with their own goals and desires, and a writer that cares about them rather than what trope or dynamic they can fit them into", it sounds weird but spectacular Spiderman, written by Greg Weissman is the show I thought of when you said that, it tells well developed densely packed story, with a great cast and balancing humor, drama and action as flawlessly as this avatar, if you want a series that's avatar but not then it's this show

[@ryanb3665]

His earlier show Gargoyles is also a great example of a series that's avatar without actually being avatar. I put it up there with Avatar, in fact, in terms of quality storytelling and characters.

[@mbaelstromos0002]

Let's just say we do find a show that is "The Next Avatar: The Last Airbender". Not only people would be comparing those two shows, but it would never be enough. Fans would want another show on top of the Next Avatar until it's no longer special. We don't need another ATLA because ATLA is ATLA, like how there's only one us. A show shouldn't worry about being the next Avatar it should worry about being the first them.

[@ronaldms5971]

Ok but Lily being in the backrooms needs to be an ongoing joke, that'd be hilarious

[@trombonemain]

The diregentleman boys are gonna have a field day with this one.

[@tappyokamaniok210]

I must say, ATLA fans are very selective about what to remember or like about the show, like a lot of them losing their sh*t about "Bato of the Water Tribe" because Aang lied and that was so "out of character." Like... are you serious? He lies a lot, all the main characters do. C'mon. Aang lies since the very first episode when he hides the fact that he is the avatar after being asked directly.

[@AtTheMercyOfADream]

THANK YOU FOR THIS...thank you. I've been saying for YEARS how Zuko was never a villain in the first place, he was ALWAYS a good person. His character shows how good people can support the wrong causes. Literally the first thing we learn about him in "Zuko Alone," is as you say, how bad he is at being bad. So I always found it odd how the fandom tries to portray him as this brooding hot emo who becomes good because "sad backstory" or whatever. He's literally nothing like that, he's as awkward and goofy as the rest of the cast. And the rest of what you say about majority of fans fundamentally misunderstanding Avatar is so, so spot on.

[@ayannabranchcomb7535]

YES OMG YES! Zuko is a literal doofus mushy sweetheart being forced to be violent and mean and thats why hes brooding all the time. He is not an emo sad boy, and although I can get behind that for fanfiction purposes if its done well, that aint canon

[@AtTheMercyOfADream]

@@ayannabranchcomb7535 YESSSS

[@ayannabranchcomb7535]

@@AtTheMercyOfADream the avatar fandom is toxiccccccccc my god 😩 this is why I never join any fandoms on the internet bc I can’t. A little shipping wars is fun but people really be dragging stuff so far off the rails that the characters aint even themselves anymore

[@AtTheMercyOfADream]

@@ayannabranchcomb7535 YES and not to rant about shipping but this kind of reminds me of why Katara and Zuko is such a popular ship. She's often minimized to being a goody two shoes and ofc Zuko fulfills that bad boy archetype. Like nO, there's already a goody two shoes/brooding bad boy dynamic in the series, and that is ZUKO AND MAI (respectively) lmaoo

[@AtTheMercyOfADream]

@@ayannabranchcomb7535 And Toph is often relegated to being the typical macho muscle head of the group. YES she was a muscle QUEEN but she was also an awkward girl who was afraid to show vulnerability and liked boys. It's ironic how the way the fandom devolves these characters is exactly like how they're portrayed in the ember island play.

[@WiserOdin]

This reminds me of the old 'immersive sim' argument in gaming. If you look up the definition of immersive sim you'll get a bunch of people saying a bunch of words that all boil down to 'A game with in-depth level design with a high attention to detail, environments that are incredibly interactive, and gameplay that lets you approach problems in any way you want to including ways the developers didn't initially intend'. People treat that collection of vague-ish words like a genre rather than a philosophy around making a good game, which is at least part of why this strand of game is rare. It's fascinating to see this kind of issue in other media.

[@scarletempress2652]

Not all games need to immersive sims to be good games. They have their own niche and thus are their own genre

[@Naoise012]

As someone who's never heard avatar get anything but the highest praises on all things my main take-away here is that I really want someone to give a more objective analysis of the shows non-character elements.

[@elizabeths.3307]

I used to get confused when you said shows were trying to be the next avatar, because the examples you used never reminded me of avatar. Now I see you meant they gush over every action-fantasy cartoon. Mind, I'm not super involved in cartoon discourse, so I haven't encountered the people who make the avatar comparisons that you have.

[@ryannixon4138]

The stuff about zuko being more like Finn is so spot on and probably why I love Finn so much

[@AutumnBlaze689]

So I’m someone who only started to watch ATLA for the first time just this year. While I think it’s a bit overrated, like it’s not the best thing to ever exist, it is very good. I’m surprised how good the pacing is and how something that could be dragged out ended up being finished off faster than I was expecting/as fast as I wanted it to end. And it was made 22 years ago! It really shows that people that watched Avatar and the people that were making the shows of today don’t know what they’re doing. (You say that a lot and you are 100% correct about that as I look at everything that supports it)

[@N717Y]

Woo! I'll be looking forward to this one.

[@pablodonner5213]

Giving me 3 days of waiting is just torture Lily, can't wait to hear what you have to say

[@LilianOrchard]

You could pay $5 to watch it now.

[@pablodonner5213]

@@LilianOrchard will do then

[@KiKekkosa]

@@sufnskanne469 Patreon, link in the description!

[@Mythic_Fire]

Well, I can agree it can get annoying to compare every show to it and for creators to try to make their shows like it rather than something more original.

[@TheEcoolarg]

well you got a new sub. I agree with your thoughs about trophes, and to be honest I think it also hurts the experience in the long run, like for example when people say to me a show has a cool twist in the middle or the end of the plot I almost dont wanna watch it beacuse now my brain will be constantly aware of tension that should come out of nowhere(Happend to me with Attack on Titans, ex bf spoiled me right after breaking out, as pure spite)

[@pedmonds2011]

I genuinely love this video and I watched your previous video on the adventure fantasy shows. My friends and I have talked about letting go of Avatar years ago. I completely agree that Avatar is a great show but it’s not the only show to ever be good. I’m started watching new shows and realized I really like the romance genre and horror. I’m learning things about myself that I never knew I would like. If I just kept watching every wannabe adventure fantasy with second hand Avatar elements. Thank you Lily for helping others widen their comfort zone when it comes to media consumption.

[@pikaace]

Digimon's about the power of friendship, Dark Souls is about the power of friendship, Dragon Age is about the power of friendship, and even every Final Fantasy game EVER MADE is about the power of friendship...would all these edgy viewers PLEASE go outside and MAKE SOME FRIENDS???

[@beeziebubs2756]

People tend to forget that Avatar, at least in America, used to air on the exact same network that aired Lazy Town and Dora the Explorer, usually a couple hours after the latter shows ended. It was never this uber deep and serious show; it was about a bald kid being chased around the world by a slightly less bald kid and also he’s riding a flying bison.

[@oliviahughes3158]

It's just a fundamentally solid show

[@beeziebubs2756]

@@oliviahughes3158 you’re right; Lazy Town was pretty solid

[@kimcartoon69]

@@beeziebubs2756 i have the spartacus moustache

[@scarletempress2652]

But like, it is? It’s a really good show?

[@beeziebubs2756]

@@scarletempress2652 It has its moments, but that wasn’t the show 100% of the time. Hell, that wasn’t even the show 50% of the time. ATLA prioritized being goofy and fun like most shows that aired around the same time. TV shows don’t need to be serialized dramas to be good shows.

[@kingdolani]

As someone who grew up with Avatar, I agree. It's a great show, with production values and writing leagues above other shows that were airing at the time, but it is ultimately a kids' show and is subsequently simplistic and lacking the emotional depth of more mature stories. I really hoped Korra would be a more adult series in the same world, but no luck. And the Dragon Prince was the final nail in the coffin of the idea that Avatar's creators could catch lightning in a bottle twice.

[@Guillaume-uw5oc]

this video made me get why I love "Servant of the People" so much

[@blackkitty369]

They did that with Spongebob too. Everyone wanted to make bank on those two shows.

[@latenightmoon767]

That’s the exact reason I love young justice the character all feel real and unique. One example is super boy he is a clone of Superman and has the characterization of being angry all the time but if you watch the series he is one of the most mature characters even in the first season and only become angry as a defensive mechanism. In later seasons he becomes much more claim and level headed because the reason for his anger is gone.

[@bleakautomaton4808]

That moment between Gimli and Legolas is just wonderful

[@korinoriz]

The holy trinity: Harry Potter fans need to read another book Genshin fans need to play another game Avatar fans need to watch another show

[@ArcDragoon]

What it is, is the same thing that movie producers fail to recognize why their movie did well in the first place before turning it into a formula. They think that if the same exact thing was to happen, but with different characters, that it would work again. When that's never been the case. People fail to recognize how and why something was successful, and only see the what. A great example of this would be Christopher Nolan's Batman franchise. After which we got Man of Steel, which was absolutely terrible, because it failed to recognize that Batman and Superman are different characters. If a person wanted a gritty movie, they would just watch the superior gritty movie, Batman. Not a failure of a clone. Ironically, if one was to compare the history between Christopher Nolan's Batman to Bruce Timm's Batman, you'd have seen the difference in competency. Where the movie producers failed to understand why Christopher Nolan's Batman worked and couldn't work for Superman, they had done it in the opposite for Bruce Timm's Batman and Superman. When Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, and crew were told that they could do Superman, they were explicitly told to not make it gritty like Batman and to give Superman his due as an actual character. Because competent people who were producing the animated series recognized that Batman and Superman were two distinctly different characters with different stories. And as such, it was able to properly develop into the DC animated universe. Whereas DC today, failed with the live action projects by not listening to the advice of competent people. Avatar the Last Airbender is this. People ask for the next AtLA, but don't actually understand how or why it worked in the first place. Writing creatively and well isn't part of education growing up.

[@scribewizard6345]

Let's talk about other Nickelodeon shows that are amazing: Hey Arnold, As Told by Ginger, The Wild Thornberries, The Loud House and Rise of the TMNT. The list other than Avatar goes on.

[@buster3041]

Loud house is not amazing

[@maskadent5845]

Good video, just at 9:46 what do you mean by misogynistic ?

[@MisaMouri]

I would kill for Lily's hot takes on Digimon.

[@SamuraiDudepsgamer]

This constant want for deep, complex and edgy and dark stories "for kids" just shows that some are desperate to, in essence, see their fantasies acted out in ways that can only be expressed through the medium of animation. The "kids show" part is just them deflecting that because apparently liking cartoons and animation in general makes you childish for sum reason. The reason why Inside Out is in my top 3 animated movies of all time isn't just because of the emotional climax and message shown through that climax(even tho that's like 78.385% the reason why), it's also that fact that on top of bawling my eyes out like a baby, I laughed, cringed and well, felt every emotion they were portraying on screen. And I still really like revisiting and trying shows like KP and these sitcoms, because as you said, it has just become so boring. Seeing what animation has to offer other than this overused trope/story premise, can be very rewarding. Seeing down-to-earth and relatable, personal stories has given me more entertainment in the past 3 years than whatever nonsense is being produced nowadays. Slice of life and sitcoms have been so popular and profitable in TV, which is why it has been done over and over again, because it's more personal and relatable than "the special protagonist who has unknown and unlimited power, perfect friend group that fits several stereotypes, edgy villain who shouldn't be redeemed but will be anyway, and animated diluted Hitler-like fascist who is the main baddie who should be killed but won't because shitty morals, "ALL LIVES MATTER" I don't kill so it makes me better than you."

[@Fractorification]

To be honest, I don't watch a lot of epic fantasy cartoons everyone seems to adore nowadays simply because they never appealed to me. So, I'll take your word for everything you've said about them so far. But, you have a point; people remember avatar for it's memorable characters, the humour and the best written arcs, albeit for misunderstood reasons. It's kinda why I shifted the gears from the type of stories I want to tell in my writing. I didn't care for writing big epic fantasies, I wanted to focus on the smaller character studies. Even the novel I want to write started off as a fantasy epic, but I quickly realized that I found all that too exhausting and focused on a little side-character cuz I found his little slice-of life adventures far more interesting instead.

[@KamenRiderPhoenix]

One of those "okay let's hear her out" videos you're famous for and I'm glad I waited to comment after watching the whole video. W take, I just hope most people will feel the same

[@libbyh1744]

Thank you! this was a really great video! You always have such great points!

[@BeepBoopBee]

I'll be honest, I'm a bit of an idiot when it comes to this kind of stuff. I stumbled upon the legend of korra first and since I liked anime and fantasy, I gave it a watch. I watched about half a season and got bored of it. I found that a bit weird, but chalked it up to my adhd and lack of focus. Later figured out that it was just a bad show. Recently I decided to give the last Airbender a watch, since I was stuck in bed for about a week due to an infection. It's been a long time since I've had so much fun watching a tv series. It's full of hilarious moments and when they get serious, you know shit is about to go down. And when it does, it's a delight to watch. Seeing Katara and Master Paku duel was absolutely amazing to watch. It was fast paced, the various ways they use a single element to best each other and the interaction between the two had me eagerly watching with a big grin on my face. And the emotional moments hit hard because by the time they come around, you have spent quite a bit of time with the characters and have grown attached to them. Appa getting kidnapped and going through so much trauma was like a punch in the gut. And Irohs part of the episode "tales of basing se" had me in tears. Iroh is my favorite character in the series. Whenever he shows up, you know it's going to be a great time. Funny moments, wisdom and cool fighting all seem to stick with him like glue. So seeing him cry so much about his son and hearing the pain in his voice had me in tears. But the fun comedy of it all makes it such a great show to me. It has some moments where it's a little over the top sometimes, but I'm almost always laughing my ass off. So now the legend of korra just makes me disappointed and annoyed. It's trying so hard to be something it's not and the series just leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. It could have continued the original series with characters just as interesting, but instead there's not really anything noteworthy there. I certainly don't wish that shows start copying the last Airbender. Korra tried that already and failed spectacularly. I just wish that shows learn from the last Airbender and give us characters that are interesting, meaningful moments instead of angst for the sake of angst and fun stories. The world is already a shitty enough place. We can use more fun in the world.

[@ThePrincessCH]

I heard that " The Legend of Korra" was kind of a rush job because Nickelodeon originally only intended for the series to have one season, but changed their minds just as the first season was ending.

[@Hezkun]

This has been unironically the push for me to deepen my characters in a way that shits right by me

[@LilianOrchard]

I'm glad your characters are shitting right. Strange goal, but I'm proud of you.

[@phobiandeimoses4904]

Lily: Calls Avatar a quest for Goofy. Doesn't refuse to elaborate and elaborates. Leaves.

[@ayannabranchcomb7535]

This whole thing is the result of people never growing out of their fanfiction phase and instead projecting that onto all future cartoons 😩 don’t get me wrong I love fanfiction and I’ve read some amazing dark and “serious” shit, but umm it stays on the internet for a reason. And the only reason its interesting is because its taking the heart of the show, the relationships between these dynamic characters, and placing them in a different world/scenario/timeline etc. Some of my favorite avatar fanfictions are ones where its just them being regular ass friends doing regular ass shit because that’s what made avatar great!!

[@thepoetjean]

Actual professional fantasy writer here (patent pending): A diverse and varied media diet is necessary to be a well-rounded person if not a great creator! It's why your parents (presumably) all put you in sports or after-school clubs as kids -- to develop skills and hobbies and hell, maybe even find something new you would like! Like, I've seen so many people want to appear cultured and educated when they don't want to do the actual work to be educated and cultured; Renaissance Man (using it gender neutrally here) had to do w/ the fact not so much that these creators' have a wide range of skills -- it's the fact that they have the skills and the wherewithal to learn more about the subject that skill is from! For writers -- esp new ones! -- there's often a writing exercise that says to practice writing a story in another genre; this isn't to dissuade you from writing the stories you want to write (ie. say, Warrior Cat fanfiction) but to pick up various skills and processes from those genres to make your story stronger. Like, make carrot soup if you like carrot soup, but learning about chicken soup will probably add some spice to the dish next time you make the soup of carrots. PS. I didn't watch Avatar til I was like 17y/o so I didn't get the same hype my peers got even though I did like the show.

[@CFlandre]

Hey, Jean, question for you while you're available on here: as a writer with only a single writing credit to his name, is it worth it for me to rewrite stories I like as writing practice if my ultimate goal is to write original stories? My hope is to do both concurrently, but I also want to know if its worth spending the time to perform those rewrites as far as gaining experience for writing my original stuff. Or should I just take the plunge and do original stuff?

[@thepoetjean]

@@CFlandre Hey! This is a good question but I dont like answering questions on someone else's video. I'll send you a message or u can copy paste this question & send it my way at my email (info when u click my icon)

[@xxProjectJxx]

I like Avatar. It was a good show, but the amount of people I see praising it as if it was the pinnacle of storytelling is ridiculous.

[@superstarultra28]

Please make a video about TLA and Digimon being the same thing. It sounds like an AWESOME discussion topic.

[@WerewolfHorrorNut]

This video needs more views

[@supermanlypunch]

I'm sure it's not new, but it really does seem like giant swaths of fans will love a certain show/movie/game, but have barely any understanding of why the thing works as it does. Avatar is an extra special case in that it's own creators seemed to have no idea why Avatar worked as well as it did, and their follow ups have disappointing at best, and disasters at worst.

[@Herb615]

I would argue that the Legend of Korra was pretty good. Of course it wasn't going to measure up to ATLA. Most sequels fail to recapture the magic. But to say it's a disaster or even a disappointment is a massive stretch.

[@supermanlypunch]

@@Herb615 While it's true that sequels often fail to catch lighting in a bottle like the first entry did, that's not really an excuse if the sequel is bad in it's own right. And it's a shame cause there is actually a lot of stuff I like about Korra, I just feel like it wastes way too much of its own potential, along with a lot of pretty questionable choices that it just balances out to "meh" for me.

[@ThePrincessCH]

@@supermanlypunch I heard that "The Legend of Korra" was a bit of a rush job. Nickelodeon was only planning on making one season but changed their mind near the end of season 1.

[@HouseDarkSteed]

The ending lines just fucking killed me dead! "Shut up. Just shut up. Time for sleep, no more talking, only sleep." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

[@sirembrum49thegreatmoth2]

Hehehe no thoughts only sleep is something I relate to. Awesome video on the subject :)

[@ditzydoodle8381]

When you compared Avatar to Digimon, now I almost wanna see your review on Digimon. I know season 2 was hated for many reasons, but I will say I enjoyed Ken as an antagonist cause he was only an asshole because he thought the Digimon were digital pets with no feelings. Once he realized they were sentient, feeling creatures he IMMEDIATELY felt guilt and turned around and suffered for quite some time being mistrusted and hated by a few of the cast and other digimon as he tried getting better. Though I will say, he felt a little flat once he turned good. Maybe it's just me liking baddies. XD

[@weirdogirl1275]

Wow you are absolutely right. It is time for sleep. It is like 10:30 at night. Goodnight! 😴💤💤

[@Rook1399]

Head empty no thoughts just sleep let Avatar rest it's earned it after 17 years

[@munuaispapu4732]

This has nothing to do with this video, but oh my god glass of water is a breath of fresh air in the space of youtube commentary. There's a commentary video on one of my favourite games ever being recommended me all the time that's over three hours long. Thanks for keeping this at under fifteen minutes honestly

[@pn2294]

I’m really glad you pointed out that Unalaq was the best villain in LoK.

[@gamepopper101]

For some reason I see Lily waking up in a cream coloured hallway with a constant hum from a ceiling light and think she's woken up in the Lily Orchard Parable.

[@broodwars64]

I'm curious if you have a similar point of view for shows like Batman: The Animated Series (and by extension the DCAU), which is (and rightly so) held up as the gold standard for "serious" superhero shows, and yet it's also quite goofy at times.

[@AshleyTheFighter]

Whenever I want to end a non-sensical argument, I'm just gonna use this 13:07

[@seancheung3393]

Having watched Xiran's analysis of the ending of avatar, they had an interesting thought about the ending. She explained that it was a way to prove that his ideals where right. That he didn't have to kill to solve his problem, and the people that the fire nation killed where not weak since their beliefs prevailed, but what are your thoughts on this?

[@lilithiaabendstern6303]

I think it is a misunderstanding of what "letting go" really means in case of the chakras, because that was the main issue that created the drama, Aang not being able to go into avatar mode because he rejected the necessary step to open his crown chakra - "letting go" just means, stay independent as yourself and don't make yourself emotionally dependent on others - something he could not do because a) he is a teenager, so his emotional maturity is still developing b) he asked his former lives the wrong question - he was so fixated on defeating the fire lord that he had forgotten, that he himself could choose the way how to handle things - regardless how powerful fire lord Ozai may be, he is the avatar, he stands above that - what Aang needed was a former incarnation with the same approach on things like uncle Iro, a real mentor who also had his personal well-being in mind and who would understand his conflicts better what it means being an avatar Aang was only ever driven by his personal goals and that is not, what the avatar is meant to be, and in Korra it's obvious, that he never overcame this kind of immaturity because there was no need for him since Katarra covered that for him, she managed his emotions and his oversights - a real avatar needs to be altruistic, something neither Aang nor Korra, especially her, never understood - but I guess so did the writers of the show

[@galten7361]

@Lilithia Abendstern Bryke just write the Avatar as a superhero crossed with a magical dictator since they aren't actually that well read on East Asian to South Asian theology and philosophy.

[@ThePrincessCH]

​@@galten7361 How is the Avatar a magical dictator?

[@gamer47e17]

Peersonally I love Avatar, it was what got me into writing my own things, and filling me with inspiration. Honestly I kinda have to disagree, I don't think Avatar should just die, because it was and still is a huge impact in the lives of many, and because...well truthfully it's just a really good show, even The Legend of Korra is good imo. I honestly hope that it gets a resurgence one day and we get that last Book 4: Air that we missed out on. If anything should be dead and left to rot it's Teen Titans Go.

[@Poglavnit_Pferdefuhrer]

It's really *really* confusing they put in so many pieces for prequels, _and Nickelodeon never did anything with it!_ Hell, you could have had a nice chill miniseries following the one surfer avatar. No big stakes until the sudden attack by Koh, no constant battles, which means we would get to see _other_ avatar tasks, like diplomacy, or helping at civil engineering some giant project while maintaining ecological balance, or fighting the weather Roku style like rescuing ships at sea A 12 to 14 episode miniseries showing basically Avatar: Paw Patrol edition would have been good fun!

[@mrblue___]

Avatar is my favorite animated show ever. Grew up with the OG TT but TT Go is hilarious 😂 Don’t get the hate tbh

[@malahamavet]

I'm not doing that. I watch other shows and don't compare them whith it, Except when it's avatar related media. Then I do compare it. But as I said, I'm not letting this go, unlike other stories, this wasn't ruined.

[@jonasboel2473]

This description of "what avatar is" makes me think of Infinity Train. It's literally about characters overcoming their interpersonal struggle through adventure.

[@michaelterrell5061]

1:00 thank god someone finally said it. Seriously just because there are slightly mature themes in cartoons doesn’t mean that they are any less for children.

[@Wwhdduendjdhhfmwosdn]

Exactly! Not only are those types of shows (in my experience) a head above the rest, but kids need shows that can help them handle mature topics.

[@epicfights7898]

It even puts into question how ppl think "mature" is vs what a mature theme actually is. Watch Lily's vid on "Stop saying Pixar isn't for kids" on the pixar movie Soul. Ppl immediately think it's "too mature and not for kids" because of a Man going through mid life crisis and some implication about Death, but completely overlook the deeper theme about the system of childcare and education failing children that don't fit their mold. Ppl even say ATLA and LOK are "mature" about some of the topics they go over, when many of them become simplified and miss important points to fit what they want. (The Thought Chakra being about awareness being changed to power and creating Energybending as way to negate that important lesson. Aang not understanding how to be empathetic, and respectful of other's feelings and boundaries, especially Katara's. And Azula being treated like a lost cause despite having clear turmoil like Zuko's caused from Ozai, plus Hama becoming a psycho. Not to mention the actual importance and nuance as to why Ozai should be killed./ LOK's take on the Villain's ideologies and how the story ignores the nuance of the issues it introduces. Ex: Bias against nonbenders, Book 2's Civil War, Kuvira bringing stability to the Earth Kingdom.) Sry for big rant and wall of text XD

[@Herb615]

Also, aren't children's cartoons and movies are rated G for a reason? Most children's cartoons and movies are supposed to have mass appeal; likewise, adults are also supposed to like children's cartoons and movies.

[@ForgottenWalrus]

I was expecting a jumpscare purely because of that f@#$ing background! lol

[@Samata94]

I had a phase as a teenager when I would rate media on just pointless metrics, think cinemasins almost, certain tropes had to be there, disqualification if other tropes were in it. It just resulted in pointless analysis and was just a vehicle to prop up my favorite media while lazily trying to bring down other media. The "mature audience" crowd is definitely like that too, unless a show has (easily identifiable) depth it's bad. Shut up is a pretty good respond to that mindset. I liked the part about trying things outside of your comfort zone inevitably becoming part of your comfort zone if you enjoyed it, I never thought about it like that but you are completely right. And to broaden your comfort zone instead. Altough for my part I am "lucky" enough to have a favorite trope that is almost always bad in media and if a show has it I will most likely not want to watch it and that would be damsel in distress, a loved one being held prisoner while their partner tries their best to rescue them, both being worried about the other always tickle my fancy. The problem is that it's often shallow and or misogynistic so I lose interest or get mad. Come to think of it, it's kinda the situation we have with Raine and Eda, huh neat. We really did lose a lot of character moments in BFA, didn't we? I hadn't even thought of it being that bad but it really is absent of any feelings or motivations behind the characters despite the high stress situation. but with any bad storytelling having characters talk is a detriment to keeping plotpoints hidden to the audience so no one get to talk at all, a tip to you writers out there: if the plot reveal gets spoiled by your characters talking to each other it's a weak reveal. Just look back to Steven Universe to see what I mean, Steven asks NO questions at all because then there would be zero mysteries, a problem that got worse because he had to be in every episode.

[@PolymorphBanana]

It’s a great show that did what it came to do. It had some semi deep elements to it and it’s fun to watch as an adult and revisit every now and then. But yea it isn’t some super deep art film and people trying to compare everything to it just doesn’t make sense. There’s other stuff out there lol.

[@Brex10]

Good things should never die or be forgotten, people will never stop talking about Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, same thing for this show, and thats how it should be.

[@StrayNebarius]

Other people writing their "self insert oc": I'ma goodperson but I have repressed feelings that manifest in an evil side. One that lashes out at everyone and I have to accept. Me with my self insert oc for my first story: Character 1: Commentary on how said transformation will be hostile and attack at random. OC: Tuns around with biggest dumbest smile on his face. "Sup guys?" Big, demonic, canine with four arms. Is essentially a big ass puppy. Why? Because fuck every edgelord trying to be Virgil from DMC and Sephiroth's love child.

[@WerewolfHorrorNut]

I love your videos