CAR DEALER DOC FEES. Can you negotiate them out? How to buy a car.

The dealer has fees to compete for paperwork. Most consumers don't understand them and think they are a rip-off or fraudulent cost to buying a car. In this video, I explain exactly what a dealer documentation fee (dealer doc fee or closing cost fee) pays for and when the doc fee becomes too much.
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[@HellAtlantic]

My man, most of everything you just explained is “the cost of doing business”. Those costs are worked into the selling price of the car. What the buyer is concerned with is unnecessary fees tacked onto the price. That would be like a dealership tacking on a “electricity fee” because they need to keep the lights on. Don’t ask me to pay your costs of doing business.

[@tcs4]

for real

[@TarynToday]

Amen

[@gjmbarusha6999]

Anthony, you stated nothing but facts!!! 😂🤣😂

[@oldschoolliferhere]

THANK YOU!! Dont tell that to the snake crocket sales people.

[@kckettridge]

@Anthony Casso 100%.

[@donlee327]

I have two words to say, and the first one is Bull (you can probably figure out what the second word is). When I started in the car business in 1979 in Oklahoma City there were NO doc fees. I remember the first doc fee was $19. Then as the dealer found out the people would pay it, the fee started to grow; up to $29, then $49, $89, $129, $199, etc. The current doc fee charged by dealers around OKC now is $500. Does it pay for all the stuff you mentioned?... Not any of it (look down... are your pants on fire?) Most of the time it goes into the pocket of the dealer principle; that's HIS money that he takes out for himself. If a dealership sells 250 new cars per month and 150 used cars, that's $200,000 that the dealer siphons off the top to his own bank account; PER MONTH! Now get this: if you buy a new car for $30,000, the $500 doc fee is approximately 1.7% of the sales price that you're paying extra. But they charge the same dollar amount ($500) on used cars, so if you buy a $2500 used car, that comes to right at 20% more money out of your pocket. Then the dealership lies to us and comes up with a lot of fictitious expenses to justify the charge. They assume we're gullible and will just pay it. Apparently they're right. Wise up- refuse to pay it! They'll still have to show it on paper, but they can and usually will lower the price to cover it. Knowledge is power!

[@specialk2514]

4 years later, I thank you for one of the most important and helpful comment explaining doc fees.

[@herual-ameen6984]

If dealerships are afraid of getting sued over who does and does not pay a doc fees, then they should just get rid of the doc fees all together. Problem solved!

[@stillaworkinprogress2147]

Please note that some states have limited the amount a car dealership can charge on DOC fees. Apparently even state legislators feel that DOC fees are a rip off.

[@phanttomracer]

Honestly sounds like he's trying to convince himself, not us!

[@chancock4222]

phanttomracer Only if someone can’t understand what he’s saying.

[@phanttomracer]

@@chancock4222 yes, we understand that his, and most dealerships, stink at managing a business, and can't control their overhead costs so they want each consumer to pay extra. It is quite clear.

[@johnmcclish2735]

A License to sell motor vehicle is $20 in KY! Take all but $100 of those Doc fees and have it taken off the car price. And tell the salesmen as you are heading to the F&I Manager that all Doc Fees above $100. Is coming off the car price. I live in FL and we are seeing Doc Fees and dealer Fees of $698 to $1780. Its a scam. Be legit put dealer costs in the car cost. I do not go to The Outback and get charged a Fee for silverware cleaning and Menu production.

[@ChevyDude]

No you have to tip the wait staff 15% (The customary amount) or more because the restaurant won’t pay them a fair wage and require their patrons to do their job. 🎤 ⬇️

[@phanttomracer]

@@ChevyDude a tip is optional. Yes you are a dick if you don't leave one. Still, It is customary, not mandatory. The doc is never optional. Is it optional at your dealership? I didn't think so.

[@M1ke10191]

I'm a PA. Maybe I should start charging my patients for my medical license and continuing education fees.

[@s99614]

Only if they work at a car dealer though.

[@gjmbarusha6999]

😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@dougsverywet]

DOC Fees are unethical and robbery. Plain and simple. All the reasons you give are wrong. I like your other videos, but this is Wrong. It is nothing but Additional Added Dealer Profit. Within a 2oo mile radius of where I live, there are a number of dealerships that do not charge this. I cannot believe you tried to sell these people on the fact that it is ok. I thought highly of you on your other videos but on this one, you are just wrong. I've had Many years in the car business btw. I am not just internet educated. Years of sales and F&I under my belt. Tell the people the truth. It's a fancy way of saying additional dealer profit..plain and simple.

[@crispcarguru303]

Lol $300 doesn't matter as most people finance vehicles anyways. Let them make some money. Margins are slim these days.

[@cmason5203]

@@crispcarguru303 b.s.

[@Casper58]

@@cmason5203 Definitely.

[@blindsey1043]

@@crispcarguru303 it depends on how tight your budget is and if you got $300 to give away 🤔

[@blindsey1043]

It becomes unethical even if it's a fee that's supposed to happen when people add more to it I think that's the real problem it's $100 why add 300 to it SCAMMERS

[@gncc600]

Most if not all is dealer profit. Some states have doc fee caps by law of $75. Don't let this guy fool you. His dealership may be more reasonable than others but lets call it what it is....dealer profit.

[@teamsalvation]

Yes and no. There are costs incurred as a part of doing business. It does cost money to advertise, to pay for the financials, and CPAs etc etc etc. The difference is, let's use a supermakret for example; Supermarkets do not charge their customers, "food trasportation fees" or "food shelving fees or "food healthiness certification fees". The cost of having a buyer identify a supplier, having that supplier ship the products, having those products "inspected", having those products put onto shevles so custeomrs can buy - all of that cost is A PART OF THE PURCHASE PRICE! That $4.00 milk costs $4 bucks because of all those "doc fees". Do you think the farmer gets $2.00 a gallon? Heck, he's lucky to get $0.25 a gallon. So, yes, I am sure the doc fee numbers are padded, but still, some of those fees are legitimate. BUT the problem is - the padding. Why is is that in CA the doc fees are capped to $80 while in other states there is no cap and the fee fluxuates from $200 to $1000 . My guess - dealerships got stuck with doc fees. They probably started charging "doc fees" as junk fees. Then, regulators stepped in and lawyers argued - these are legitimate doc fees. And, in order to keep that story alive and avoid paying penalties, doc fees are here to stay and other junk fees have been created.

[@LarrySoliman]

doc fees in ca are now $85.

[@nicholashall4639]

Glad you mentioned this. Looking at a car now and the dealership fee is posted on their website as $699. Dmv site says $250 is the max processing fee any dealership can charge. What the hell?

[@realBatman]

All those legitimate document fees from other industries (such as real estate) exist because they literally have LAWYERS doing the work, and facilitating a transaction between two independent individuals. Where as an automotive dealership is employing a minimum wage low education employee to facilitate a transaction between their business and a customer. How can you even begin to compare and legitimize these the dealership "document fees"? Insane.

[@phanttomracer]

If they sell 100 cars a month, at $500 doc fee, that is $50,000 a extra month to do the job they have to do anyway! That is a $600,000 a year employee to do paperwork. I want THAT job!

[@blindsey1043]

@@phanttomracer 🤣 Gone on! Say it again so some people can take note 🤔

[@Saffrone221]

What i know about capitalism is the government allows businessmen to make as much money as they can as long as they give the govt their cut, and if using marketing ploys and psychology to get you there, by all means the old crooks from congress get their cut from advertisement and foundations being filled by individuals that need political favor. Doc fee is only legal if businesses are equally charging doc fees. If doc fees dont exist then there is no reason for the govt to allow it.

[@super6081]

Sorry, isn't all of this the cost of doing business and should be added into the listed price. What if you bought a pair of pants from Walmart for $30 and when you get to the register they start adding all these fees, printing you a receipt, a cart fee, fee for the person who hung it on the hanger, a fee for the cash register and the pair of pants now cost you $50. Isn't this the same thing?

[@christianphillips1051]

Did a deal with Capital One Auto Finance, and the best ever customer service agent allowed me to plug in and adjust numbers for an approval on a 15k vehicle. Raised the taxes from 1k to 4k, added an extended warranty for 3k, and kept the $600 dealer fee on there for a total of 22.6k minus 1k down payment which brought my amount financed to 21.6k but none of the adds changed my down payment requirement of 1k, but when she took away the $600 “dealer fee” and made it zero, it dropped my down payment requirement to about $700! I asked her why would my down payment only be affected by the sales price of the vehicle and the “dealer fee” but she obviously had no clue. But I do! Because they are one in the same! Doesn’t matter how much you’re actually financing, as that only changes your payment and maybe APR but we are loaned a certain percentage of the vehicles value. If the sales price is 15k but the dealer fee is $600 then the total sales price is technically 15.6k and that’s the number banks use to decide loan to value and the down payment needed! With the dealer fee on the loan, my 1k down payment requirement did not change even by $1 regardless of if my amount financed changed 6k! It only changed when the sales price was adjusted and when the “dealer fee” was adjusted! Like many other comments I’ve seen, I’m also disappointed in Chevy Guy because this video looks forced and he’s not himself! Lost me as a subscriber buddy.

[@allpraisebob]

I really don't care what fees a dealer wants to tack onto the price, but I do care that so many states attorneys seem to ignore the increasingly common practice of hiding these fees in the fine print while advertising what would otherwise be a competitive price. One dealership in Miami, FL charges a $479.50 doc fee plus a $979 dealer fee, and if those fees are applied to every customer - as claimed in this video - then they should be included in the list price. Seriously, how is this not illegal?

[@solomr287]

All I got from this was your dealer is raising their doc fee.

[@b.bjohnson135]

🤭

[@fozzybear7255]

Six blades from the dollar shave club tho...

[@HP.Customs]

I’ve walked out of dealerships because of doc fees. I negotiated a deal and at the end I said I’m not paying that fee on a 58k truck. They said it’s not negotiable so I walked out. As I was getting in my truck to drive away they said ok. You just have to be prepared to walk away from it.

[@blindsey1043]

You better say that so people can take note we are the consumer if we don't buy they have no business and I wish more people were like you unless for some reason they got a really good deal in the doc fee is in all that much but usually there probably isn't the case people just being greedy and it's gotten worse since covid which is trash

[@homerfry9234]

So Subway should charge a fee to make your sandwich? NO, its included in the cost of the sandwich. Any reason is still a ripoff of pure profit.

[@Bum_Hip]

Homer Fry then don’t buy the car from a dealership if you don’t like capitalism.

[@homerfry9234]

@@Bum_Hip Making money is fine, ripping you off is not

[@Bum_Hip]

Homer Fry, maybe so, then don’t buy from them, and/or don’t call yourself a Capitalist. To be fair, you did not say if you you were, or were not one though.

[@homerfry9234]

@@Bum_Hip Why are you so supportive of this fee? I'm going to guess you work at a Car dealer? It's a dealer added fee thats totally made up to get more of your money at no extra cost to the dealer.

[@Bum_Hip]

Homer Fry, I have never worked in a car dealership. I am NOT supportive of the fee. If you don’t want t pay it DON’T. Why all the whining about it? I never have had to pay it. He failed to tell you how not to pay it. Are you too triggered to figure out how not to yourself? If you ask nicely I’ll help you out.

[@realBatman]

I've literally never paid the doc fee, I've always been able to negotiate this fee off -- no matter how "permanent" it is on the sales slip. It's the most ridiculous rip off. Your job is to sell a car, why am I paying you an additional $400+ to do your damn job? The only reason this fee exists is to scam buyers, and trick them into thinking that a dealer's doc fees are similar to closing costs of a home sale. That's literally where it started, and why people keep falling for it.

[@blindsey1043]

Ok 👌 I see u!

[@silvergt4254]

a whole bunch of BS!

[@jimstancil9639]

The last 2 cars I bought I got from small independent dealers with no DOC fees. They gave me the previous title and the bill of sale. I took it to the DMV paid my title fee and taxes and walked out with my tags and my $300 that I save on DOC fees. He mention having to pay to have food delivered well we have a choice to go get it or have it delivered . With DOC fees you have no choice. I never buy new so when I am looking at used and they start talking DOC fee I walk.

[@aa777flyer]

So what DOCS do you have to do if I bring you a cashiers check from my bank for the full amount? Maybe one paper for DMV? In Nevada I still have to go to the DMV to get my own registration. DOC fee is nothing but additional profit.

[@boricua3145]

I'm in Chattanooga and the local Honda Dealer has a $599 doc fee which I thought was crazy having been in the car business I'm aware of all the costs. Then I went to a Kia Dealership in Kennesaw Georgia and their doc fee was $750 now that is highway robbery!

[@cgirl111]

So I'm supposed to pay you to perform your legally required protection of the info you forced me to give you? And I should be happy about that? You must be joking. It sounds more like blackmail than a business expense.

[@phanttomracer]

Why should anyone buy from a dealer that does not know how to control their operating costs. Just build it into the price! The out-the-door price is only number that matters.

[@rb8058]

Welcome to America, bud. It’s all about making top dollar.

[@crispcarguru303]

So if the car is more expensive because of that it doesn't matter? Out of sight out of mind? You're going to get charged either way.

[@vocalion]

So your guy makes a mistake on an odometer reading and I have to pay for it?

[@puertoriconnect4611]

Exactly what I thought. I became very skeptical of the rest of the video after that.

[@phanttomracer]

Point at 13:00, you can reduce the price by the doc fee and then add the doc fee , so the handshake price ais the out the door price, right. As long as it's on the contract you should be fine. So change it to $0 doc fee and then don't worry about it. Keep it simple.

[@jollyroger999]

This used to be known as the cost of doing business and is the same kind of semi-scam as pricing something at $9.99 rather than $10.00. It is in the same vein as the buyers fee premium that most auctions now charge after the sale. Both are intended to make the sale price appear/seem to be better than it is. Both are borderline deceptive .

[@blindsey1043]

The moment you realize life is a scam 🥴

[@Chevroldsmobuiac]

I would enjoy car buying a lot more if the doc fee was included in the negotiated price, rather than appearing on the sales agreement after the price is negotiated. I also don't like it when I ask a salesman up front what their doc fee is and I don't get a straight answer back. That will send me out the door very quickly.

[@ronw4975]

Thumbs down on the dollar shave club infomercial.

[@CODE-BROWN]

Ublock Origins. Its a google extension. Haven't had an ad on youtube in years. You're welcome.

[@CODE-BROWN]

@ Ahh, I skipped through the trash.

[@keithcooper9087]

So you join the dollar shave club and then you get hit with a $15/processing fee for the box and the guy that prints the label and puts on the box? hmmmmm….just saying....

[@sllouis1920]

yelp that was a lame plug. I guess his sells are down

[@kings17court]

2:15 But I got a good laugh out of this.

[@benblakeney7418]

Yeah, normally like your content and I did listen. Just because we may disagree, there is no need to be dismissive that it went in one ear and out another. The dealership where you work may not negotiate on doc fees and that is their right. But don't argue that it is inevitable or necessary. This is the business practice they and many others follow. Again, their right to do so. I have bought cars far longer than you have been selling them. When first introduced, there was pushback on them. What these fees allow to be done is to advertise a lower price because the fee is separate just like airlines do (Don't know the true price until checkout). Plenty of dealerships just incorporate the profit needed into the final price so it probably all evens out between the two different approaches. Biggest tip I can give others is don't negotiate in terms of just sales prices but in terms of "turn-key" or absolute final price between multiple dealerships for identical cars. This allows them to use whatever fees they want in that price, but it won't matter because what does matter is the best overall price between the dealers. If you like one dealer more and they're not quite the cheapest, you can still buy from them if you want.

[@allenellzey5735]

So unless thinks have chaged a ton since I was a Chevy Technician, here in WA the $150 doc fee may be added to the sale price. I will not pay it, no way! One thing you dont hear about in these videos is the fact that the service department usually covers the cost of doing business for the entire dealership, and sales are about 70-80% profit. Now this may have changeds some since I worked at a Chevy dealership. When I bought my 2019 Jeep, I told them sorry I will not pay that $150 doc fee since you have to the paperwork to sell me the vehicle. When I owed my own business I did not charge and exta fee to do paperwork, it was already incluced in our pricing. Making money if fine, its when we the customer start feeling or seeing all the small fees that add up to a lot. I know sales people that make $150K a year plus. The mechanics dont make that much.

[@garryhunt2492]

Damn !! I wish I hadn’t seen this video now.. I liked the Chevy dude up to this point but now he is just like the rest .. lol Doc fees are a scam and a tax on a tax. He has seriously failed to convince me to “ just pay it “. I can’t tell my customer in my business that the item they are buying is $100 but then when they get to check out I need to add a doc fee to cover insurance, gas, water n staff wages etc etc .. Nice try Chevy Dude

[@toyoscio]

Why not?

[@SuperEndiku]

Exactly. Why wouldn't I quote my customer a rate for a computer project and then once it's complete I can hand them an additional bill for the cost of my Comcast usage, Amazon supplies, personal training I might have to take? Might as well pass along all my lunch bills because I needed fuel to work on their project. If you can't factor the cost of doing business into your profit margin then you shouldn't run a business.

[@Specter1031]

You guys realize profit margin on new cars are low and dealerships can't make up MSRP. They can't mark up the costs of their products like you guys do.

[@hogrydr100]

im in agreement with you. i liked the first video i saw but stopped halfway thru this one. i couldnt take it. he needs to call it what it is. total BS!

[@shadowfall2011]

@@Specter1031 why cant they? They can charge whatever they want for a car. You can't force a business to only charge a certain amount. That's literally what a Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price IS. The dealer could sell it for 20,000 less or 50,000 more.

[@francsever]

Did not convince me this is just a another way to work more profit into the deal, especially liked the reason that the dealership needs to be in compliance with regulations to protect themselves so the consumer should pay for it directly. Just a way to make the game more complicated to give yourself an advantage.

[@madbradmadbrad]

A fee to pay for running the place might be OK if the car is sold at cost.

[@JeffryLandry]

I can understand a certain amount for a DOC fee, but one that I have a real problem with is the Destination and whatever it's called fee. They are charging for the car being delivered from the manufacturer to the dealer, and to fill up the gas tank and keep it cleaned while it's on the lot. I've walked out of a couple dealers who tried to push that fee on me and bought from the ones who agreed to remove it from the post negotiated price.

[@nicholaslazzari8787]

Gimp Geek the points you made are valid and many dealers break the law as it is required that the destination cost be included on the window sticker from the factory not an add on. The dealers also get paid by the manufacturer to prep the car for sale detail it and fill it with gas. They will try if you let them.

[@victoriahb8529]

Thank you for this. I just got a offer and the doc fee and processing fee was over 900.00 total in Massachusetts. I said hell no to that deal. I appreciate your videos.

[@blindsey1043]

I wish there was more of you out there that will walk away we are the consumer if we stop consuming they have to adjust BRAVO well done! Stellar customer performance 🤗

[@40923-]

I bought a 2007 Chevy Malibu and I was charged 800 doc.fees. I mean is that legal

[@gregorysloat4258]

@@40923- I guess it is if you’re willing to pay it. I wouldn’t.

[@natemiller1392]

Any "fee" outside of government-mandated charges (sales tax, title, registration, inspection etc) is negotiable. It's up to you as the buyer to accept said fee or not. If you feel that the fee is unacceptable, you can try to work it down or just leave and go somewhere else to shop. Depending on your state, if a fee is able to be taxed then it is not mandated by law and open to negotiations as it represents profit on the car deal.

[@blindsey1043]

Is the registration fee taxed?

[@RobertTerrill1]

@@blindsey1043 It is in Nevada

[@datadaveangelstravelsadven444]

Blah blah blah ... We have all these expenses .... cost of doing business .... Yada yada. Bottom line is dealers make a ridiculous amount of money. Just another car salesman smiling in your face while he's explaining why it's ok for him to screw you. Most of your vids are ok, but this one doesn't sit well with me.

[@nicholashall4639]

Some States have stepped in to clearly write what a max processing fee is. In Virginia its listed on the dmv website that $250 is the max processing fee any dealership can charge. How can a dealership argue that?

[@Ziebenator63-jj9ej]

Ex-car salesman who sold professionally in the mid 80's...buying cars from a dealership back then was a sham...fast forward to present day 2019. NOTHING HAS CHANGED!!!

[@phanttomracer]

yup.. same practices.. same BS...

[@mudsinkmayor]

The guy is full of it!!!! Dealer prices are higher than private party sellers because of all the reasons he gives to justify the doc fee. These expenses are already built into the price of the car. The doc fee is just a form of double dipping.

[@gncc600]

The only reason they pull these doc fee shenanigans is because people blindly pay them. Most buyers are not prepared to buy a car. The sales team is highly trained to counter any objection and maximize dealer profit. People don't walk away anymore.

[@trbstang]

Back door fees so the companies can give you a more attractive price up front, and then recoup the discount on the back end. Years ago it was included in the original price. Luckily I don't buy too many cars! Good info Mike. Enjoy the vacation!

[@johnconnors5123]

Doc fees are whats called padding the tissue box . Thats from the mouth of a dealership owner. Every car and truck I have ever bought I make dealer subtract that amount from agreed price of vehicle or no sale.

[@phanttomracer]

Yes last few vehicles I purchased took no effort to get the doc fee removed. Well reduced the price by the doc fee and then added the doc fee on a separate line. The out the door price was the same. Just takes some backbone to stand up to the f&I guy or salesman.

[@dedalliance1]

You realize that if they have a $500 doc fee and they 'take it off' to make a sale, that they were originally at $1,000+ in profit and you only brought them down to $500+, right? They aren't going to sell you something they don't make money on unless it's a very rare case of a car that's been on the lot for too long and they rather write the loss off on their insurance or find the profit somewhere else to cover the loss. That's how a business works.

[@phanttomracer]

@@dedalliance1 it would be great if they didn't play games and give you a fair price to begin with! They need to stop with this mark it down , just a mark it up strategy. If I shake on a price, that is the price I expect to pay out the door. They need to learn their operating costs and operate within that, instead of relying on extra-special bonus mark up in the end to make up any price break.

[@gabrieliacoboni6951]

@@phanttomracer It's not just the dealer but also salesman have an incentive to sell at Max profit because their commission might be bigger.

[@phanttomracer]

@@gabrieliacoboni6951 yes

[@phanttomracer]

I actually like most of the videos on channel. This video makes me want to get out my hip boots, however. I don't pay extra at Walmart for a cashier to ring me out. That is their operating cost. You just need to build you're operating costs into the deal and don't charge a doc fee. Don't mark down the price Just to mark it up again. Know your profit, know your costs and offer a fair price, and the customer won't feel like he's getting screwed.

[@dedalliance1]

It's literally the same difference. How about the customer just not be retarded and deal with the out of the door price with all fees included? Is that so hard to do?

[@phanttomracer]

@@dedalliance1 as long as the out-the-door price is the same price that you shook on, everything is great! I just hate the extra-special bonus fees that show up after you shake on a price.

[@seanlowrey5239]

How many times have you went into Walmart and negotiated the price on everything in your cart?

[@phanttomracer]

@@seanlowrey5239 there never has been an add-on feel like a cashier fee or destination charge or documentation fee on anything at Walmart! At Walmart , as well as that a car dealer, if I agree to a price on a product , that is what I'm going to pay. Plus tax of course.

[@datadaveangelstravelsadven444]

@@seanlowrey5239 how many items at Wal-Mart cost over $30 grand and require the assistance of a financial institution?

[@jeremycribb4696]

I live in Missouri, we have safety inspections, so I’m sure some of the dealers fees are applied for this item. Now this applies to vehicles older than five years, as the first five years are inspection exempt. As far as delivery driver goes, when I worked for Dominos in Tennessee, the delivery fee went to the store. I was asked why it existed and if I received it, and after I explained no, people were more than happy to tip the driver. Check into this in your area to see if this is the case or not.

[@phanttomracer]

Should we start a crowd funding campaign to help out these poor dealers that, despite being in business for years, just can't manage their costs? Starting to seem like an epidemic!

[@scottchamberlain5594]

Dealer doc fee=ADP (added dealer profit) Just a way that the dealer makes a minimum nut on the deal, no matter how aggressively you bargain.

[@dedalliance1]

You mean so they don't go bankrupt? Wow, those terrible dealers!

[@gregorysloat4258]

@@dedalliance1 If they can’t make it on the price of the cars they sell, maybe they shouldn’t be in the business of selling cars.

[@dedalliance1]

@gregorysloat4258 They are making it on the price of their cars, because the dealer fees are apart of that price lol.

[@kenanwang1101]

A lot of people calling doc fee/dealer fee BS, I would just recommend negotiating out-of-door price from the get-go. I'll let the dealers figuring out how they want to pieces the pie together. Because if you don't pay the doc fee, then you probably can't negotiate the car's price down as much. So just skip the hassle and go right to the final price.

[@phanttomracer]

i prefer to negotiate as normal, then bitch about the fee, to get the fee to further reduce the price of the vehicle by the fee amount. No need to give the dealer any extra information they can use.

[@SubSilent99]

Great behind the scenes info. Like always, informative and honest notes on what most dealers DO NOT want to talk about!

[@truetexan7755]

Doc fee,,, that's like inventory tax fee... both are the cost to be in business. We should charge the dealerships a shopping fee for looking at their products.

[@johnwilliam8366]

It's a "Scam" Dealer Profit...….in California.

[@CODE-BROWN]

Hopefully your state limits how big the doc fees can be. Here in FL, there is no dealer fee protection. $8-900 is quite normal on every car deal here in FL.

[@MACFORD88]

California has a limit on those fees.

[@SoCalKevin]

The current limit here in CA is $80. Don't get jealous though, because sales tax and gas prices are ridiculous af! Give me FL gas prices and I'll gladly pay the $900 scam fee twice over and still be way ahead :D

[@jimsauer3810]

Something has to pay for the salesman's free lunches. In California dealer doc fees are limited to $85.

[@aa777flyer]

Exactly Jim. $85 is a reasonable fee. $300 is not. I walked out of a Nevada Dealer over their $499 doc fee. Drove to California and paid $80. The $300 plus doc fee is another scam from car dealers.

[@dedalliance1]

Yep good ole California, liberal communist state that has Government rules regulating private business some more.

[@benjaminjennings2997]

🙄

[@trey5630]

I'm in Northern Virginia, and every dealer has a framed picture, that says "Processing Fee" and the amount. They are typically $499-899. They all tell me that it is regulated by the state, in that they choose a fee and declare it to the state. They say that they will get in trouble if they negotiate away from that declared fee, because the state will say they are discriminating against certain buyers. Admittedly, they could choose to declare $0, as long as they are consistent with everyone, but they say that once they set the fee amount with the state, they can't change it. Is that BS? How is negotiating the fee any different than negotiating the vehicle price?

[@dctex9999]

All Fees are negotiable!

[@phanttomracer]

Yep sure are! The last few vehicles I purchased, the out-the-door price was what we shook on. Complained about the doc fee and the fabric protection fee, they just lowered the price of the truck by that amount. If they don't want to remove the fee, walking out is an option. I got up to leave three times on my last purchase due to hidden fees.. there will be someone that is willing to give you a fair price

[@kennethadcock8858]

I have never paid a doc fee. I wait until the paperwork is done and tell them I don't pay doc fees. You have to be firm and be serious enough to walk away from the deal. They have always folded and removed the doc fee or reduced the price . I tell them all I need is the title. I know where the courthouse is.

[@phanttomracer]

Yes I always wait for the contract to come out with a doc fee on it.. then I complain about, and attempt to walk out, the doc fee amazingly comes off the price of the car. Every time. I literally take a pen can cross it and any other fee off, and circle the line one price and say that's a price I'm paying. Just takes some confidence and backbone

[@yfzjoe]

Then why isn't the dealership worried about being sued for selling vehicles at a lower and higher price to different people like you mentioned they were afraid of not moving it for doc fee for. Doc fee is for the "Documentation" not "sales training" or any of the other lame excuses you just tried to justify it with. You misled a lot of people with the comment and lost a lot of credibility. That is something that the dealership should pay... it's the cost of doing business. Its just a small example of how dealers are still the same...

[@MikeL-FL]

Dealer fees are pure profit. There need to be more organizations like the Greater New York Area Dealers Association (GNYADA) that cap them. GNYADA members are limited to a $75 dealer fee. I’m much more comfortable paying that than the $995 the scummy rip-off dealers charge. There need to be more organizations that do the same thing, across the country.

[@Pewpew45]

Virginia has no cap on Doc fees and the 2 Honda dealerships I was looking at were charging $699 and $799. Ridiculously high!

[@phanttomracer]

Anything over $0 is high. It is an optional profit line item for them. It can be negotiated out of the sale

[@stevee8318]

Consult the laws in your state. In some states, an individual actually cannot register a new car themselves at the DMV - it has to be done by the dealer. And find out what the state actually charges to register a new vehicle.

[@reddawg917]

Doc fees pad the dealerships bottom line. They can easily absorb that cost in their thousands of dollars in profit on the trade in & vehicle purchases. But we the consumer pay it for them & they continue to stick it to us. I don’t pay them per se...negotiate an OTD price. I walk if they try to add on fees later. It works every time.

[@KNGKNGAOW]

Thanks for the info! The one time I asked about the 400$ fee I was told it was for document storage cost. No further information. I was fine with paying since I figured there was more to it, but it is great to really know now

[@agger838]

Lawsuits are expensive...the dealer should just charge a lawsuit fee and pass cost onto consumer like everything else lol

[@justlistenfornow]

In 2019, consumers need a lawyer service when purchasing a car in order to get a fair deal. This is a sad reality.

[@twolery1514]

This is a great summary of dealer costs, most of which are overhead (all except state reg fees, which are generally fixed and customarily passed through to the customer). Overhead should be included in the vehicle price. The effect of not doing this lets the dealer advertise lower prices. because then he can make it up on "doc fees" (and potentially other fees). If every dealer in an area is doing this practice, it is hard not to follow. The takeaway is that you should base a buying decision on total cost, not vehicle "price." For example if a car costs $5,000 + $500 dealer doc fee but is $5300 + state reg fee of say $75 at another dealer, the total cost at the first dealer is $5500, at the second dealer it is $5375. Total cost here assumes that you are not paying for additional items, like warranties, pinstriping, VIN etching, etc. If you're going for any of those, they also need to be added in. Chevy Dude is probably in a region where dealers are competing most strongly on advertised price,. This suggests that most people just research advertised price, then go to the dealer with the lowest. They will probably buy there without any further research. Not everyong, but most.

[@blehisaword]

Doc Fees are just a way to shift more of the company expenses on to the customer. Sure, everyone does it now, but dealerships are a dime a dozen. It's one of the last remaining industries where the customer can choose to not get complete screwed over.

[@iSparkFU]

D O C fees is just Cost Of Doing business backwards. I don't agree with it, but that's the jist of it. "DOC fees" should be covered by dealer profit.

[@glad777]

So you heard nothung he said. Profit how amusing.

[@chancock4222]

You came in with an opinion and no matter what evidence is presented to you you’re sticking with it. This isn’t uncommon.

[@SuperEndiku]

A Honda dealership quoted me $900 in doc fees. When I asked why it was so outrageous they literally said it was the "cost of doing business." It's bullcrap. Any business can claim this same thing. There are tons of administrative fees to run a restaurant but they don't hand you an additional "admin fee" when you pay for your food. If a business can't factor their overhead into their profit margin then they are a poorly run business.

[@glad777]

@@SuperEndiku Doc fees are to cover the cost that the consumer does not see.

[@datadaveangelstravelsadven444]

I call BS. Just cuz a lot of companies charge BS fees doesn't mean the customer has to bend over and take it.

[@OlsenTheWonderDog]

Over the last two months, I have been pricing new cars (same make/model/trim line) in or around Tampa, Florida, and in Central and Northern Florida and I have discovered a great variance in dealer document processing fees charged by the dealerships. Florida has the highest unregulated dealership prep fees in the USA - the highest! According to several online vehicle purchasing review websites, the mean dealer prep/doc fee in Florida is approximately $680, which means half charge less and half charge more. In the Tampa, Florida area, one vehicle dealerships average approximately $1100. When I expanded my vehicle search beyond the Tampa, Florida, area into Central and Northern Florida, I found the dealership processing/document fees averaged $875 - still high, but less the greater Tampa area. I find it ridiculous that dealerships charge so much more in parts of the same state than others - how can processing costs be so much more in one urban area than another urban area in the same state. The level of ridiculousness increases when you compare what Florida dealerships charge in processing fees to states with regulated process fee charges or states where average processing fee is considerably less. There may be legitimate business costs incorporated into the fees, but in Florida it seems that the dealerships are building in a profit margin (which the claim is non-negotiable) on top of other fees that the attempt to add-on.

[@glenneskridge2534]

I'm 58 years old.. I've bought cars and trucks new.... it's part of the overhead... and its bullshit...if the ethical thing to do is honesty... there are still dealers that dont gouge... so... I paid CASH for a new Chevy k3500 6.6 crew ltz... and they wanted a doc fee...I picked up my stack yes I brought cash.... they wanted to still charge.... I walked out with 60k plus......the tune changed...

[@andreamerino9146]

Glenn Eskridge I have never paid a doc fee, prep, or destination charge. If the dealership is not willing to negotiate this I leave plain and simple and yes I bring cash also.

[@buntasrivalusa3670]

Worst video yet Chevy dude! And I watch em all! You seem a little uncertain. Something’s up.

[@xmyaj114]

Everyone, Just check your state DMV website and it should list how much document fees should be. Some states have no limit! CA has a cap of $80 still listed under chapter 3 of Dealer's doc fees under CA DMV site.

[@phanttomracer]

It SHOULD be $0. Some states do limit it like CA, but many do not!

[@lennywoody2751]

I bought a 17 Chevy Cruze from a dealer in New Mexico. I love this dealer. They explain everything. To the detail.. They don't mess around. I even didn't pay the doc fee. The great thing is i only have a 36 month term. With insurance included. I love Gurley Motor Co.

[@Ken6151]

These fees are now about $600 in my area. NC law requires that dealers list any fees in any ads that they have. For TV, they show the ad in fine print for half a second and for the newspaper, the print is extremely tiny.

[@shawnw573]

Love the videos, the doc fee makes sense. The one way my friend did get around it was he told the dealer his doc fee for his signature was the same price so the two fees either cancel themselves out or they also write him a cheque. I dont neccesarily agree with it but it worked.

[@blindsey1043]

🤣🤣

[@CVNTGETENOUGH]

Question: I’m on the hunt for a new Tahoe and my wife and I came across the RST package but I’m curious if I can swap the upgraded wheels for stock wheels to knock some money off?

[@kayokayo7917]

Dealers in Miami charge $800-$999. It just makes you want to tell them to shove the car. I'm actually looking at ordering from other states that legally only allow a charge of like $45, like NY, and have it delivered for the same as I would have to pay a Doc Fee. Just to spite those aholes.

[@58singleman]

When I go into a car dealership to buy a new or used car I always talk "OTD" pricing with the dealer rep. ( OTD = Out The Door ) if you work the discussion based on "OTD" pricing you do not get surprised later in the "Lie-nance office" I mean, the finance office, with unexpected taxes, fees, add-on's etc. That way before you agree to a deal ALL the numbers have to be on the paper. Works for me.

[@DLTJR1959]

Exactly. You are spot on. Irrelevant how you get there. Just dicker the extra doc fees off the OTD price. His explanation justifying the DOC fees are just the cost of doing business. Nothing more, nothing less. The finance guy always tries to sell you an extra warranty at the end. With 20" rims and tires that could be a not so bad deal. Buyer beware.

[@Bellyflops2]

Paying for a dealers mileage mistake doesn’t sound kosher

[@sawyermartin4434]

This is easily the best response on any of the threads on this comment section. A customer being required to pay for a salesperson's mistake is beyond fucking disgusting.

[@whosjohncorzine]

Kinda sounds exactly kosher lol

[@texasowl5356]

It’s funny..... deal is pretty much done... that pops up on the paper and I say I don’t wanna pay it. They say their is nothing they can do, you have to pay it. Well, every time, I get up and leave. Magically it can come off.

[@johnhutton4788]

In Massachusetts on average the doc fee is $340. Yet, I’ve seen it as high as $540 fee, this is set by the dealership not the state. So you can negotiate the doc fee!!!! No dealership will get sued over a doc fee. Most people don’t even question the fee or believe they can negotiate.

[@phanttomracer]

Last 2 cars I bought in MA, fee was $600 each, easy enough to get the fee dropped all together. Really too easy. With the car shortage, I suspect this is not the case til supplies get better, however.

[@Dw4yne68]

Hendrick Chevrolet in Cary NC has a 600+ Doc fee. Complete BS.

[@Goofy_Rich]

Your paying for the name HENDRICK!!!! They want an admin fee of $599 in Kansas, but go to Missouri at a Toyota Dealer the fee is $199.50 Go figure!! BRAND Name over local dealer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@sllouis1920]

There is a Hendrick dealership near me in Atlanta and your right they are a joke. FYI Hendricks was convicted by the feds for illegal activities with Honda Exec's he is a felon but Pres Clinton gave him a pardon as he was leaving office

[@csinalabama73]

multiply the number of cars sold per month at the dealership x the DOC fee and you realize you are paying for a lot of people to do admin work. 200 cars a month x a 599 DOC fee and they are collecting 120k per month. That is enough to pay for 40 people making 3k a month. Do you really think it takes 40 full time people to do the paperwork at a dealership? Ha! Dealers only have maybe 3 people doing all their paperwork. DOC fee is owner profit.

[@davem9484]

Another great video. I just wanted to step back to the new car “fees” video. Do you think the “premium” color upcharge is fair, or can it be negotiated? Do you have similar videos for buying used cars? I’ve heard before, don’t buy a used car from a dealership.

[@theannouncerdad]

Doc fee is all dealer profit and you know it. You even say at the end “let them make a little bit of money”, so you admit it’s a profit center!

[@NoKreativeUsername]

How do I negotiate not having to watch u in the restroom advertising subpar razor blades?

[@tedstriker5991]

By supporting Dollar Shave Club you take business away from Gillette. Which is good. Screw their misandry and shaming tactics.

[@Ben-lr2vz]

In Michigan they raised the max fee they can charge to $230. A lot of states have it at $75. Anything over $75 is a ripoff.

[@mikemitchell6207]

Hey all. First time for me commenting on here. I’m 54 and just bought my first new vehicle. I live in central Canada, province of Manitoba. My DOC fee took me by suprise, but my lovely wife was already sold, so there you go. They were well over $1200 Canuck bucks. I should have walked away from the desk in the finance office at that point and put some further thought into the negotiation.

[@gregmooney4090]

ill buy somewhere else

[@electricrade]

In California, dealer doc fees are limited to $85, also any additional fees are limited to direct costs to the dealer, also any added profit on the MSRP has to be disclosed on a separate dealer tag.

[@Jeep2Honda]

Yet another way to propagate the perception among the buying public that dealerships are greedy and out to take every dime the buyer has. Which further deepens the mistrust from years of abusing the customer. Take note: Most of the pile of paperwork is to conform to laws that were passed because of the way dealerships mistreated the customer in the past. Now dealerships are forced to be ethical, at least on the surface. As long as dealerships operate as independent franchise businesses with no competition (other than themselves, thanks to state laws) this is what the consumer has to put up with. Eventually these practices will kill the current dealership model, and none too soon.

[@jdmcc]

Haha the point about dealerships being 'scared of being sued' was funny. Imagine two different people found out the bought 2 of the exact same car, but paid different prices. So can I sue when I buy a car and then there is a sale on that same car the next week? Of course not!

[@phanttomracer]

No way they can be sued if the dealer did not charge ANYONE a doc fee! Just make a fair deal to everyone ! Win-Win and no potential lawsuit !

[@stannevins407]

I will walk before I pay doc fee

[@phanttomracer]

I almost wore a hole in the dealer's carpet on the last purchase I made from getting up so much to leave! Dealerships wonder why they have a bad reputation. These bogus fees is just one of many shady practices still going on

[@teamsalvation]

With respect, I have to disagree. all those things you mentioned is indeed a part of doing business. However, I do agree that it’s better for the doc fee to be disclosed - Like taxes. The differences is that taxes are basically a set price, even though not many know how that money is spent; “to fix the roads”...umm have you seen the roads lately? ;-) In CA I believe the doc fees are capped. I also agree with why you cannot negotiate them away. Can’t be found charging some and not others. What I don’t like is that these fees and their used are not regulated. Either don’t change them and simply increase the price of the car, or charge them and have them regulated so one dealership doesn’t charge $1000 while another down the street charges $300.

[@teamsalvation]

** Humans are Idiots ** Message to dealerships - truly, truly, making the buying experience better and prices transparent. No games, no gotchas. screw the fees. just increase the purchase price of the car. ** This isn't going to work ** Why? PEOPLE LIKE DEALS!! Dealership 1: No fees. Price of car is $20K, all-in, tax, gov fees - $20K. Dealership 2: Price of Car is $18K. Tax $1K, Gov Fees: $1K, Dealer Fees: $3K. *BUT WAIT*!! For the 4th of July we have a SALE!! WE pay your doc fees. WE throw away your prep fee. NO DESTINATION CHARGES!!!! DISCOUNTED PRICE: $21K - YOU SAVE $2K in fees that WE pay for YOU!!! Guess which dealership sells more cars? * Dealership 2 because YOU GET A DEAL and SAVE!!! We humans are idiots.....

[@wasclit11]

I am 69 and graduated from the Old School of buying a car. Yesterday I helped my son buy a very nice one year old used car. First off the asking price was so ridiculously low I felt I had no room to negotiate. I didn't have to do the minimum 3 trips to mount Olympus to get the sales manager's blessing. Two of your videos gave me peace of mind. When I saw the doc fee of $399 I thought I was getting ripped off - you helped me there and the other one was on buying an extended warranty. Normally I don"t buy them but I did buy the Bronze package on my Honda CRV. We got the Premium package on his car which was $1800 for the life of the 5 year loan. When one computer module is $2500 I told my son it was peace of mind and like buying any insurance they are betting you won't need it and you are betting you will. Thanks for teaching a very old dog a thing or two.

[@mikecee7848]

I used to sell cars and am well versed in the reality of every example he gave about what is done and their associated cost(s). Assuming EVERY example he gave applies, the dealer would be on the hook for MAYBE $50. Maybe. Theirs is ZERO reason ANY dealership needs to charge more than $100 if the “ethical” reason is cost recoupment. Many states have laws in place that regulate maximums, it’s amazing how they vary. In NC the average doc fee is over $500, in the Charlotte area it is typically $600-$800. Ridiculous. Just know the doc fee BEFORE you arrive and plan to use it as a tool on your belt for getting more money off the car (since no dealer will on paper strike through/remove that fee). Some will tell you the law requires everyone pay it....that’s a lie.

[@davidolee1]

I have thought your previous videos I viewed were pretty straight up. This, however, is total BS, "dude." Totally agree with most of the previous comments. Cost of doing business. Dealer fee/doc fee = 95% dealer profit. So it is discrimination to negotiate doc fee but no discrimination to negotiate the price of the car itself??? Everyone, best way to buy a car is to shop multiple dealerships for the best "out the door" price. I don't care if the dealer/doc fee is $10,000, you'll have to discount it elsewhere or you won't have the best out the door price.

[@oldskoolbmw]

Yeah staff training.... paperwork... printed business check.. these are not things you're doing for me.. $299.50 to hustle title work and make sure you read milage correctly. It's a stretch. The problem I've seen is when they go from 299 to say 500 or 995. They're no longer about anything you said but pure profit to justify the lower get you in the door price. You don't go into a hospital and get on your bill. MD recertification and license renewal $12.50, RN recertification and license renewal $5, Staff BLS training $2, environmental impact fee for paper forms $8.

[@madscientistkicks]

Kris Hundredmark great example lol those medical bills are actually a whole other demon in their own way though

[@dedalliance1]

So when enough people say no to their $995 doc fee and walk out the door never giving them their business again and they go bankrupt then doesn't that mean capitalism worked and the consumer is always right? There's no reason they should limit their profit(s) as long as people are stupid enough to pay a blatant thousand dollar fee, do you not agree?

[@gregorysloat4258]

@@dedalliance1 Be sure to tell that to a Jesus when you meet Him. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@skinnyshoes11halfAA]

Florida has a “Doc Stamp” (Documentary Stamp Tax) of $0.35 per $100. When initially instituted ages ago, it actually was a gummed stamp that was affixed to the back of the paper documents. Now it’s just a revenue stream for the state (at least we don’t have state income tax).

[@johngrant1337]

Doc fee or dealer fee is extra profit!! If you don't know the Biggest profit is from the finance office, a good finance person can make a dealer $2000 to $4000 extra profit (in gap insurance, tire and rim coverage, paint coverage and extra power training warranty)and add loan money that banks and credit union give to the dealer for use that finance company. I say all of this so all of you buyer know more to help you make a better pay on your next car or truck.

[@shem3737]

Doc fees are just another way for the dealer to lake another profit trata the bottom line.

[@TheRealReasons]

Everytime I hear somebody try to explain Doc Fees it just reminds me that the Fee's are just the dealer passing along their own cost to operate along to the customer. Its the same thing as charging customers Destination Fees on new vehicles that are literally sitting on your lot. The consumer shouldn't be paying for the things the dealer has to do in order to run their business. Seems like you were just trying to convince your self that these fees ethical to charge, not us.

[@sandmanxx6049]

Interesting. I just bought a 19 Colorado new, and the doc fee was included in the price, but mistakenly added again. They just adjusted the price of the truck down that amount. This was after some of the paperwork was done.

[@realBatman]

-----> Rebuttal 1) Check Vehicle History - This only applies to used cars, and consists of a carfax report, which your dealership is already receiving. Also, you're legally obligated to include accurate information when you sell the car, otherwise you are committing fraud. This is not a customer obligation. 2) Window label -- this is laughable. How can you sell anything without a sticker? This is a fundamental component to selling anything let alone a car. I don't see Best Buy charging doc fees for their price stickers. 3) Accurate Vehicle Mileage -- your job is to accurately document data, if you mess up and document it wrong, that's your fault. If salesman are so poor at documenting data correctly, maybe it's time to eliminate car salesman completely? 4) Forms -- These forms are as much for your benefit as they are for the customer. How can you claim rebates if you don't have forms proving you sold a car? So this is a shared cost and benefit. 5) Identify Theft Protection -- Are you serious? That's your obligation under federal and state law. See what happens if you fail to protect customer PII, your privileges to sell cars will be revoked. 6) Emissions testing -- in no way should this fall under a document fee, and as a matter of fact, depending on the state, this is probably illegal. You can't claim state inspections as a document fee either. 7) Passing along lemon law information -- your obligation under federal and state law, and this is often automatically printed by sale software. 8) Business check - $1.50 ! = $499+, what's next asking customers to subsidize pens and staples? 9) Rebates -- the way you explain the rebate process makes me believe you really don't understand how things work. Dealerships do not "front rebate money" to the manufacturer, this is so backwards, I don't even know what to say. You have no right to a rebate until you sell a car, so you aren't fronting money, you're claiming a rebate after a sale. Manufacturers make sure you're taken care of, and you make plenty on holdback and rebates. 10) Explaining consumer rights and dealer obligations to a customer is not a customer obligation. Trying to pass this off on a consumer is peak scummy. I had to stop, this guy is straight up projecting in all his videos.