Turbo Initiative vs Miracles | Quarterfinals 3 - Quest for the Best Legacy Deck Ever

[@CardmarketMagic]

Decklists for this video: bit.ly/3AQPdDe All 21 decklists from the initial tournament & their results: bit.ly/4e33TxM

[@denissinner4625]

It's crazy to see Flash from 2007 going 7-0 in that field.

[@tante8074]

@@denissinner4625 Flash was an absurd deck. I'm looking forward to seeing it

[@flumbabo]

No channel with a half decent release schedule comes even close to this one right now in the MTG scene. High level game play without competitive stakes and insights from actual pros who also manage to be entertaining. And a coherent layout to follow what's going on. Chef's kiss. Keep it up.

[@Nyxianmeows]

It's obvious that they love what they do! And the way the people behind the scenes do the stuff on the screen and sound effects really is just so fun

[@CrazySliver75]

"High level game play without competitive stakes and insights from actual pros" This is why I really like those videos, the insights are always interesting and don't slow the gameplay too much; stuff like Andrea trying to optimize his city of traitors or Thoralf talking about which card he should pitch to force makes you understand how "the pros" are thinking while playing

[@amamam95]

I wish they did this style of video for every format of mtg

[@dinoguydude]

@@amamam95who’s gonna tell him?

[@chrisrushtonltd]

and it's not commander!!!

[@IzzetTempo]

"What if I also have a miracle? Emeria's Call?" SMOOTH

[@Playingwithproxies]

What if he cheats to cast it by not having the correct mana😂😂😂

[@TheIanderthal]

What I find interesting is at 7 mana (not as a miracle) they both produce 2 4/4’s

[@Kokuswolf]

@@Playingwithproxies Though so too. But it would be still possible, if he used one Lotus Pedal instead of Cavern of Souls, so he can the Cavern afterwards for Thalia.

[@GoDzJtFr]

Seeing Elspeth not just be played but be relevant to the actual matchup is insane. I love seeing old cards pop off

[@xardas149]

Besides the fact the else was entirely meaningless to the oitcome of the game and nearly cost him ghe game being near useless.

[@bobbymccullough3210]

@@xardas149 Having an attacking token each turn that can come down after Terminus is not really meaningless against a deck that plays both the Monarch and the Initiative.

[@xardas149]

@@bobbymccullough3210 But thats not what happend. THe else did jack shit, especially game 2. He was fucked without snap brainstorm finding terminus and after that it increased the clock on an already done game--> wow amazing :D In neither game did she anything that switched the game actually and was just an expensive meme. Go watch the games again. If you dont see how actually meaningless her impact was I dont know what to tell you, but stay at FNMs would be my advice xD

[@NovaGuardian985]

@@xardas149 You're the one that's not seeing how impactful she was to the games. Maybe you should stay at FNMs.

[@bobbymccullough3210]

@@xardas149 You're not entirely wrong, but you're only looking at it from one perspective. There's more to it than just watching the games, in the same way that there's more to a game of Poker than just what happens on the table. And while I normally don't feel the need to defend myself to incompetents online, I will say that I've been playing Legacy since 2010 and have had multiple big top8 finishes in the format. And I'm perfectly fine sticking with FNMs. They're a much better experience than big tournaments.

[@violaknapp7904]

This is a great video to show how many hats people wear in a matchup: Magic Player, Entertainer, Interviewee, Life Coach, Quarterfinalist, Semifinalist, Congratulator, Friend... and the most important ones: Carrot and Crown

[@DismemberTheAlamo]

its a pumpkin

[@DarkYuan]

@@DismemberTheAlamo No that's gotta be a carrot. Pumpkins aren't leafy on top, it would've had a stem.

[@DismemberTheAlamo]

@@DarkYuan - someone didnt watch the video

[@DarkYuan]

@@DismemberTheAlamo Just cause they said it's a pumpkin doesn't mean it was.

[@DismemberTheAlamo]

@@DarkYuan - i digress, if you had watched the video, you would get the joke

[@denissinner4625]

I liked the remark by thoralf in the Spell Snare exchange, andrea "spell snare, in legacy??" - thoralf "It's 2011". People forget how stacked the 2 mana slot was with metagame defining cards back then: Snapcaster, Stoneforge Mystic, Counterspell, Counterbalance, Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant among others.

[@canadianbakn]

It's a bit of what you mentioned and a bit of "Yeah it's 2011 we made do with what we had".

[@malte54]

True, but where was that counterbalance? Wasn't it usually a maindeck card ?!

[@Enchurito]

​@@malte54it absolutely was a 4 of in the main deck

[@AngelBaby-ct9kf]

Going back in time to insert orcish bowmasters in the 2012 standard file, making spell snare relevant for the next 12 years

[@malte54]

@@Enchurito In this deck, it only was a sideboard card, which is weird to me. Obviously it made miracles win the matchup, because there would've been another 4 dead cards in the deck.

[@MrDeliworker]

Its awesome watching Thoralf settle into the Miracles Flow State where you're taking several game actions quickly, since you had to do that back in the day since those games would always go to time in tournaments

[@DismemberTheAlamo]

they did a bts and there are a lot of breaks in gameplay for the interview segments / note taking. The games take longer than you see here.

[@Aaackermann]

@@DismemberTheAlamo bts?

[@sibraman]

@@Aaackermann behind the scenes

[@Aaackermann]

@@sibraman Thank you!

[@trveheimer6360]

@@Aaackermann big tuna sandwich. the guys at cardmarket get hungry.

[@ReyosBlackwood]

11:18 Call of Emeria creates angel warrior tokens, not just angel tokens. This matters because Seasoned Dungeoneer cares about party types, like warrior.

[@slappkake2953]

lol Thoralf hollywooding the brainstorm at 22:30 pretending he didn’t hit Terminus was gold

[@DerickTheHeroV2]

He truly did bluff that quite well. I was watching attentively and almost believed I was doing the math wrong or something when his eyes did not light up. That is a thing that defines high level play, good bluffing.

[@devinanni8117]

I'm going to take the initiative here to say that I believe in miracles.

[@Jonjay01]

Yeah initiative winning, would be a miracle

[@blueplayer6197]

@@Jonjay01 Yes, Emeria's call indeed.

[@AulaGeschrabbel]

may I add, that this is a very royal comment of you? You should be the monarch of jokes.

[@petermoglia]

Top notch gameplay and presentation by Thoralf, Andrea and *especially* the editing team. Pound-for-pound the best and also most fun Magic content out today. Looking forward to next week already!

[@CardmarketMagic]

We are a very small team 😅 so I (Carl) do all the editing in these. But it's made much easier when editing videos from talented and charismatic players like Thoralf and Andrea :)

[@demithefiend]

@@CardmarketMagic the fact that a lot of people assume that there's a big team editing these videos says a lot about the quality of them

[@huiostheoukaisoteros]

5:12 'This wonderful mechanic, tailored for 1v1 play'' made me laugh SO hard. The pun at 11:00 was also great, especially for having English as a second(?)/not main language. Great video, great production value, great players having fun. Nice!

[@Necroskull388]

I feel like puns are actually easier for second languages, since you pay more attention to the things native speakers overlook.

[@Entropic_Alloy]

You can activate top on your opponent's turn to trigger miracles while the fetch is on the stack. Tricks like these make me wish Top was back...even though it is a pain in tournaments.

[@54regas]

Both Andrea and Thoralf are so entretaining and funny that I forget a lot of the time that they are two amaizing pro players too. Love this channel and all your work

[@Joebob31100]

I love Thoralf and Andrea explaining their plays as they make them. Legacy is a very thought-intensive and play/counterplay based format, and it's nice to hear them narrate their choices, the pros and cons to each, and why they decide on each one. Very educational. 10/10 Rooting for Legacy Lands to take the final

[@BootiSwet]

What a game! Thoralf with the perfect terminus in game two had me geeking!

[@joelhatterini6392]

They had me in the first half ngl, was not expecting this outcome. Excellent play from both sides as usual.

[@Mysterious-Stranger]

This was really enjoyable. Best MTG gameplay experience I have seen on YT

[@amonprassodia1428]

Wearing the two hats is too powerful!

[@georgemanolo5671]

Thoralf played this so well Very nice match up with lots of decisions Nice videos as always Andrea and thoralf are such nice guys lots of fun

[@Trivedi_Tuesdays]

Having t1 spell snare vs chalice. Mengu mulled to 5 and 6, yea thoralf played so well with his removal.dec 😂

[@cronosdimitri4584]

cardmarket crew = the goats of mtg yt no questions asked

[@SpinAroundU]

Waaaay closer than what I would I thought! Amazing how both Andrea and Thoralf can deliver such tight gameplay while still being lighthearted.

[@elpokitolama]

The perfect trio: fun, high level, and easily understandable This is the best mtg content ever ahah

[@victorsaliba6081]

Incredible! The funniest match of this channel: unbelievable outcome (or should I say a miracle?), pumpkin hats, monarch, initiative. Great video :)

[@victorsaliba6081]

Btw, Karakas was kinda the mvp of this tournament so far haha

[@basvopheusden]

I did not expect miracles to win this matchup. Well played Thoralf!

[@RumpledNutskin]

I'm not surprised, tbh. One of initiative's worst matchups were swords to plowshares/force of will decks

[@HughJayniss69]

Cool now I don't have to watch the video! Thanks for spoiler!

[@JohnFromAccounting]

@@RumpledNutskin Completely untrue. Initiative's hardest matchup was Daze + Wasteland.

[@jshultz7699]

@@HughJayniss69 Why are you reading comments before watching if you don't want anything spoiled?

[@RumpledNutskin]

@@JohnFromAccounting oh man you got me. It's bad against countermagic and removal spells, not removal spells and countermagic

[@davec8385]

I can't believe that deck won! Absolutely love it and excited to watch the semifinals! Thanks for sharing the videos I hope you have a great rest of your day :)

[@CardmarketMagic]

You as well :) I'm thrilled that you enjoy the series! We put a lot of love into these

[@minazuki4735]

I started one year ago playing magic i watched all of your videos before sleep, i learn so much with you guys i love all of your videos, forza mengu🇮🇹 forza thoralf🇩🇪

[@Riuhkuhku]

"nice play thoralf" like federer making compliments to djokovic, good video we loooooooove legacyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[@weenewsboy]

I haven't played magic in like 10 years but your videos made me want to play again. I have substantial savings now so maybe I won't go broke playing this game again.

[@senoreverything6366]

I'm such a fan of Cardmarket guys. This is insane production quality for under 200k subs

[@isaac-nk7jf]

menguchi has such a fun personality, the fact that he chose the ridiculous hat and put it on with a smile, this is definitely the best quality magic content on youtube bar none keep up the good work guys

[@tartarussauce1983]

Petition to have the winner of this series face off against one of the companion decks without companion tax since they had the tax in the Swiss rounds

[@xPhireLight]

Yorion more like snore eon

[@louismauguen2076]

Elspeth did so much work in the matchup that was unexpected ! That's what I love about this game, sometimes you just have to play it out and magic could occur 👺

[@andreww479]

Love watching Mengu and Toffel play all these different formats for best of series', they are truly players of many hats

[@MathisGries]

As a UW control fan, this greatly warms my heart

[@samuelkinnunen828]

Hey guys thanks for making these videos I can see how much work goes into them

[@CardmarketMagic]

That's very kind of you to say :)

[@bobbyhanson346]

These two always have so much fun playing Magic with each other. It's amazing.

[@nickward6339]

Those were amazing games! These semi-finals should be awesome.

[@blakethesn8k]

These videos are amazing! I feel like I always learn a handful of new interactions and strategies every time I watch a cardmarket video. GREAT GAME TORALF AND MENGU!

[@robert8984]

Advertising: "The games are lightning fast" - Reality: Turn five - Casting Lórien Revealed; counter with hardcast Force of Will. - Ok, after watching the video: I called it! Turn 7 hard cast Terminus to kill a 1/1 and later, turn 9, emblem Elsbeth ... thats basically what i said. People think Legacy is that crazy "turn 1 combo kill format" while in reality is mostly a grind fest, slower than Standard, Pioneer, Modern and slower than most Limited formats of the last 4 years. This year it became a little faster due to Rescaminator (until Grief ban) and the Frog. But in 2023 the Bean-control mirror matches ended through DECK OUT more often than not. Not mill, no, literally deck out. As in "i drew all my 60 cards."

[@nathanielreichley4640]

Well it is often a grind fest if you survive the first turn or two. If you come with 2/2s for 2 and taplands, you might not make it to the grindy hardcast Force of Will turns.

[@Jestemkioskiem]

Well the format is fast as in you immediately lose with a bad opening hand because you have to deal with 5 mana worth of threats on turn 2. But the format also has access to the best removal and counter magic so if you don't draw a dead hand, it gets grindy fast.

[@robert8984]

@@nathanielreichley4640 Thats the whole joke. Legacy is the epitome of "If everything is broken, nothing is broken". 20/20 indestructible turn 3 is way less impressive when the nuts and bolts removal is a 1 mana instant "remove from game". In addition Legacy has surprisingly few card draw going on (mostly because all broken card draw like Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time is banned). It has INSANE card SELECTION (Ponder, Brainstorm, ...) but very little card advantage by draw X. As a result people trade one good card vs one good card every turn and two for ones become a game ending threat. It also is a very exhausting format to play, because most of your work, unless you play combo vs a goldfish, is tracking draws and potential hand cards of your opponent. Deduction by past plays ("He didnt play daze two turns ago and he drew a land and fatal push, therefore he cant have Daze now") is key in Legacy and doing this for 6 rounds in a tournament is hard work.

[@canadianbakn]

I would say until some recent printings legacy was actually one of the most grindy formats. But recent printings have meant that the format has gotten a little bit more degenerate/fast. Psychic Frog kills a hell of a lot faster than Delver.

[@DefinitelyNotReal627]

All this fair, interactive magic; there's blocking, incremental advantage, midrange planeswalkers...do I need to start playing Legacy?

[@robmarney]

Turns out Sensei's Divining Top is a pretty good Magic card

[@ildathet]

the deck representation is also wide, unlike modern

[@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle]

Just wait until legacy horizons comes out

[@andrewwang7699]

@@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle that's just modern horizons/commander product

[@xdelbarrio]

I love these decks, and legacy in general (although I don't play much) but its funny to call decks with sol lands that jam 3-4 mana creatures turn 1 and free countermagic in FoW, fair magic lol

[@MagicalMasterMind]

What a thrilling match! Great quality as always. Much love to Mengu!!!

[@Oznej]

11.00 - that pun was glorious! All hail the pumpkin king

[@JuanWonOne]

The punkin king!

[@Kristjan0209]

But it's clearly a carrot.

[@tante8074]

This might be my favourite match you guys have ever posted, this was so sick

[@recusantvessel]

Andrea spitting actual bars with that emeria's call, a miracle joke lol

[@PsychoticSashimiS]

This was a great video to wake up to! Always fun watching y'all make good content and having fun!

[@benlittle5543]

Wooooo more legacy. These game play videos with the cuts to explain lines in-game is really fantastic

[@benlittle5543]

And holy cow both players are clearly really good. That top is one hell of a drug and T-dog used it well.

[@abjoern]

Finally got to see miracles! It's a deck that has fascinated me a lot and I've been waiting for this match

[@TheAlmightyGoiter]

Incredible match! I look forward to this series every week now

[@CardmarketMagic]

I'm happy you do! This series is my baby 🥳 I put a lot of work into these :) and everyone tries their best piloting the decks

[@gurizuri5116]

Thoralf (and mengu) seem fun to play with casually, this channel always makes my day a touch better : )

[@abusus75]

Awesome. I love the content of this channel, please never stop!

[@LakeVermilionDreams]

I didn't expect that outcome but it was fun to watch!! Here's waiting for the next one!

[@TheDewbolt]

Loved the matchup! Great showing for two incredible decks

[@XTimTheEnchanterX]

Love the video as always guys!

[@nielsmandemakers720]

absolutely love the channel, but i also want to give Mengu his praise. his channel mengu´s workshop is very nice aswell!

[@CardmarketMagic]

It is :D

[@Macattack1023]

I loved seeing that miracle deck! So many old cards I used to love playing with such an awesome control deck.

[@jakfrost2]

As always props to your editor and great content

[@jproductions7469]

This series has single-handedly gotten me back into not just modern but 60 card formats in general

[@unforseenconsequense]

Those were great games, with top level plays, really enjoyed the video!

[@oafkad]

These folks are like THE reason I give any poops about magic anymore. Such incredible matches and such lovely folks to watch.

[@mofomiko]

I gotta say - aside from your gameplay videos being top of the game and a joy to watch - I really appreciate how pro players handle their cards. Very smooth shuffles, draws and satisfying flips, seems so natural. (Edit: even beautiful picks up sometimes @28:30 - no reason to do all that but to be fancy lol)

[@Browny93]

Please more of this gameplay content! And more mengucci!

[@JohnyScissors]

The old formats like legacy are so good on this channel. Everything is so much easier to follow

[@corebinik243]

That victory ....was a miracle

[@MelanieOh]

The amount of interactions Thoralf and Andrea had for each others' plays each turn were absolutely nuts. If I ran into that in a game, I would absolutely be taking it personally 😂 What an absolutely broken format. Great video 💖

[@su0tin731]

I really loved everything about this episode.

[@ericdravenashecorven]

18:38 I played a lot of Esper/Azorius Tempo in Modern for a long long time and I love Spell Snare so much. I get it's a little weird to play it in Legacy right now but people never play around Spell Snare even if they know you play it. One of my all time favorite cards

[@thaneofstuff7340]

What is honestly wild to me about this match is that in games 2 and 3 Thoralf never even used the banned card in his deck, Sensei's Divining Top. And sure the initiative didn't hit the best hands or Turn 1 Whiteplume but Thoralf doesn't even have cards from beyond 2012. That's just crazy to think about when you take a step back from the game and look at what happened.

[@ReederMG]

After game 1, I thought Thoralf didn't stand a chance. Glad to see Thoralf prove me wrong. Another excellent video from CardMarket

[@zacharylohner]

It was looking dire for a second there, but I'm so glad my favorite deck of all time is still in! It's a miracle!!!

[@TJ_PH]

I always love when you guys play these tournaments. Please maybe also play limited like PR style, i'd like to see how pros play.

[@davidhansen5067]

I'm so glad to see control and tempo lists getting through, it's a much better look at a format than a combo showdown would be, and far more interesting gameplay!

[@fomme397]

I don't care that it didn't do anything, seeing Elspeth ulti made me crack a huge grin. I remember back when I started playing as a kid and thought Elspeth was a really good card because of her ulti and wanted so badly to get it to go off. Hardly ever did, and when I did I was winning anyways so I kinda learnt not to judge Planeswalkers on their ultis, but I still really like the card for the memories I have with it. Beautiful ending to a very fun video, thanks guys! 😊

[@daem0nfaust]

Great game! Also shows the power of belief... 👼🏾

[@paulhedges4625]

It's very interesting to see the Undercity path they take. At my university, we have a format similar to #30 vintage where it's almost always correct to go down the other path.

[@AnonYmous-et4mz]

34:09 Did Andrea just Chalice Check himself? Awesome game and impeccable content overall, as always. You guys can really be proud of what you do.

[@tomatonoob]

nope lotus petal is 0 cmc, and does not trigger chalice the 1 mana was paying the thalia's tax which does not change the cmc of the card

[@benjaminloyd6056]

Awesome series of games! And people said (Spoiler) couldn't win! You should have seen the polls. This was so entertaining, thank you Team Cardmarket!

[@CardmarketMagic]

I'm really thrilled that you enjoyed it :D I hope you like the rest of the series! I put a lot of love and effort into these :)

[@Xavi_Shado]

I cannot believe the result!!! Fantastic game from both sides!

[@loganchristiansen564]

✨ Spoiler Blocker ✨

[@nicholas8739]

I appreciate this...then it moved to the next comment which quite literally told me who won. 😢

[@SirGarthur]

My G

[@mcandrolallendelapena6375]

That Game 2 Miracle play was just **chef's kiss**

[@zanecord]

Absolute banger of a video. 10/10. Best Deck ever is best series ever.

[@Hieuby_Dooby]

Good game! Very well played by the winner!!

[@byrontheusurper6505]

I forgot how strong initiative is, I should put it back in some of my decks

[@HelmShop]

I believe in miracles, but it's going to need to take the initiative if it wants to win.

[@SpringDryad]

This was worth it for the hat alone! So cute! :D

[@highleylikely]

Was not expecting the miracles win, but way to go Thoralf.

[@TheVP_SSBU]

Insane move to allow the chalice to resolve, and it worked.

[@drosales1981]

I laughed so hard with the "Emeria Call - A miracle" joke... such a fun match.

[@hotmicrowaves3340]

In the future, I think you should make a patreon or a 2nd channel that includes all the footage of the Swiss tournaments before hand, and upload them after the best deck series finishes. I’m sure other people would love to see all the decks play eachother, as well as a lot more content!

[@SigourneyTaylor]

Unfortunately I don't think they can make a Patreon, since they're owned by a card distributor (so the card distributor would have to set up the patreon, not them)

[@hotmicrowaves3340]

@@SigourneyTaylor didn’t think about that, fair enough!

[@idanbhk3875]

The amount of editing they do here is insane. The unedited videos won't be nearly as good. And even just cutting dead time (shuffling / making choices / calculating numbers) is quite a bit of work.

[@alexiswigginton452]

I loved seeing the scrys with that pop up

[@mageius]

Gotta love when the old school decks show that they are still very powerful.

[@caseywellington4761]

I was not expecting that result, but I was REALLY not expecting that result with THAT planeswalker!!!

[@vincentvega9139]

That was so many caverns to play through and still miracles went through craaaaaazyyy!

[@cladothehobbit8290]

"Joke's on you, my hand's terrible!" I felt this in my soul

[@PlatypodesReges]

Elspeth is severely underrated. My friend and I played Snoko v Miracles on Tabletop Simulator recently (inspired by this series) and I had the exact same reaction as Andrea when he played Elspeth. It then proceeded to hold off two consecutive Uros until he found answers, then managed to attack down the first Oko I played. I ended up winning with the second Oko and a Jace the Mind Sculptor but I severely underestimated how strong Elspeth is in miracles.

[@CardmarketMagic]

That sounds like a very fun game :D 2 okos, 2 uros a Jace and an elspeth! Wow!

[@KyleWalters126]

My two favorite Legacy decks, UW and initiative! Yes, I’m a monster

[@TheSk4dir]

Already reserved a special place downstairs, huh.

[@asrieldreemurr1988]

The editing is amazing good job editor

[@CardmarketMagic]

Thank you :)

[@asrieldreemurr1988]

@@CardmarketMagic editor hiii your work is always so good and makes the video so much better and easier to parse like the transitions at the beginning to their decks were so clean

[@CardmarketMagic]

@asrieldreemurr1988 it's just me, Carl (who you see piloting the lands deck in this series) editing the videos :) and I also have help from Fele (who you see on camera sometimes) for the commander videos. We put a lot of love into these! I'm happy you enjoy them!

[@asrieldreemurr1988]

@@CardmarketMagic 🫡

[@curtmantle6554]

Could someone explain to me why I'm wrong? I know I'm worse than Thoralf at magic, so why didn't he play the Vendillion Clique at 7:30 if he didnt want it exiled? The Spellbinder wouldn't have seen it.

[@mah_bad]

It'll get eaten by the Terminus Toralf will eventually be forced to cast. Toralf thinks his out is to get a hit in with the Clique after he boardwipes.

[@erikolsson9816]

Probably because he doesn't want to crack the fetch and lose the terminus

[@curtmantle6554]

@erikolsson9816 ohh cause it would shuffle it away, clever.

[@justinweeks8149]

As a former Sensei's Top Miracle player, the biggest aspect about this that i love is watching how efficiently Thoralf actually uses Top. He is showing how the card should have been used despite the reputation it inevitably acquired as being a time eater effect to draw out games.

[@gabrygualtieri7459]

That terminus in game two was brutal