The CONFUSING HISTORY of JASON TODD - Fans HATED Him!

[@CasuallyComics]

Check out the resurrection of Jason Todd! kzbin.info/www/bejne/iH_OZoCjprF4f9k

[@williamjones3534]

Ummm is it me but does this seem kind of gay? As Dick ages Bruce goes out and finds a new younger nubile, innocent man who he can shape and mold to replace him.... I have to wonder what was on the mind of the person who wrote this. It reminds me of a team up comic episode in which superman and batman decide to meet up at the fortress of solitude to discus their feelings and wind up fighting penis shaped aliens. Batman cries at the end when the last penis shaped alien shrivels up and dies. It really happened! I was a kid at that time and believe me! There was Jason Todd hate. I honestly think this was one of the best stories in comic book history. Those issue shot up in price so fast. Honestly Tim was a far better Robin.

[@sleepinggorilla]

@casually comics The actual death itself is messed up. They are in the middle east tracking Joker and Jason finds his birth mother. After the reunion, it's revealed that Joker had already been there. Joker scared her into selling Jason out queue the crowbar...

[@docsavage873]

I remember when ALLLLL this went down in the 80s comics, .. dammmmn it was CRAAAAAZZZYY in comics in those days!!! Batman the Cult, The Killing Joke, the Dark Knight Returns, Batman Year One. "Death in the Family" I believe was the straw that broke Warner Brother's back into making the 1989 Batman movie.

[@scribescholar]

"Go to a building, sit, and hold a crowbar". Lol cold-blooded!!

[@CasuallyComics]

That's how I roll!

[@tomorrow4eva]

Seriously, though, in and out of comics, Nightwing's opinion influences people.

[@Robyn_iz_Here]

You : cold blooded Me :oh so like jason todd

[@seanryan3020]

"Even to a guy like me...that's *cold!"*

[@njsoapdish]

I'm glad you discussed his original origin, which is largely forgotten. However, you left out a key reason why fans hated Jason and he died. Jim Starlin was writing Batman at the time snd hated the idea of Robin. So, he wrote him as an annoying little punk and was also mean to Dick. Jim wanted to kill him off, and Denny suggested the vote instead. Fans wanted him dead in large part because the writer did and that made them hate him too.

[@jdjacobo3594]

In the end, it was said that the vote-thing was just a scam, and the writer was always going to kill Jason, no matter the outcome.

[@Kari7]

Another topic that kept showing up on those older comics and even after Jason came back to life, was how Jason was blamed for his own death, treated as a failure and regarded as a cautionary tale for Tim and even Damian.

[@tomorrow4eva]

Yes! I think this is Bruce trying to deal with the crushing grief, and just loses all sense of reason when it comes to anything Jason-related. It destroyed him. "I told Jason to wait to save his mother, and he didn't listen, which I really should have anticipated that being the World's Greatest Detective, so I need to put this on Jason or else I might as well throw myself into one of the Batcave's many deep holes for getting my son killed". Honestly, I think this hurt him worse than losing his parents. And Jason was not in a good space because he was also convinced he was about to be fired as Robin and was desperately looking for a new parent figure/family. So he trusted Sheila when she said Joker was gone, which amps the tragic up to 11, and Bruce never finds that bit out. So, good on you, Bruce, for your complete inability to make any of your sons feel secure in their place in your family. And in the end, neither Bruce nor Jason can be rational about Jason's death. Pit madness is just the cherry on top.

[@Xehanort10]

Yeah. DC portrays it as Jason dying because he didn't listen to Batman when it was because his bitch of a mother sold him out to The Joker so Joker wouldn't reveal that she did illegal operations on teenagers.

[@rwg6357]

Its basically to pass the culpability, If its Jason's fault , you can't blame Batman for child soldering and you can keep marketing Joker.

[@iananderson4754]

Even in the latest season of titans does that

[@vullord666]

@@Xehanort10 It doesn't help that every modern adaption takes out that plot point entirely. In both the movie under their red hood and Titans, Jason's mother has died to drug abuse. In under the red hood its originally implied Jason went off to capture the Joker on his own like an idiot. Death in the family adds "better" context that he was tracking down the Joker after being benches to bring him to justice after Joker Paralyzed Barbara, but ultimately its still implied to be his fault for being impulsive. Titans probably did him the worst. His back story episode couldn't have made him look more like an idiot. Somehow he's getting therapy and improving and Bruce is making all the right decisions (stressing that Jason doesn't need to be Robin to be his son, but also not forcing Jason to give up being Robin and just asking that he think on it), so naturally Jason does a complete 180, tells everyone to F off, and starts taking drugs from the scarecrow. And then on said drugs he goes after the Joker for literally no reason other than "he's there". No revenge or trap just "the Joker is there and I can take him." Yeah forget the fans, I don't think DC likes Jason (he isn't even in most Batman or DC content (at this point Tim gets more screen time)). Would it kill them to reintroduce the original storyline of his mom selling him out, after he tracked her down and thought she wanted him back? God forbid we feel sympathy for Jason's character and don't just think he's the impulsive idiot that has to die to be likeable.

[@scribescholar]

Robins would be mistreated like crazy after this. They even went as far as killing-ish Tim Drake. Ugh and not only killing-ish Stephanie they did the same to Dick...now Ric....I can't.

[@Grimmjowluver123]

They even had Dick ripping it from Tim without even consulting him when he gave it Damian. I agree, the Robins have been mistreated quite a bit over the years. There’s the shooting and name change of Dick 😒 Tim getting punched by Batman. And Jason’s best friend getting killed (HiC is an issue for another day) after getting beaten and pretty much exiled by Batman.

[@tomorrow4eva]

I do give Dick a slight pass because of the grief and pressure, but of all people he should know that is a sensitive issue and he could surely have spent an hour or so talking it through with Tim before hand. Kinda feels like they did it that way just for drama.

[@johnbockelie3899]

Dick Grayson, Robin # 1 Jason Todd, Robin # 2 Jason Todd, Zombie #1. How did he come back to life anyway ?. It's like they killed him, then said " Oops, he had potential. Let's raise Jason from the dead."

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@johnbockelie3899 Reality punch.

[@vullord666]

@@johnbockelie3899 it's confusing and I unironically love it. Basically at one point superboy prime got so mad he punched and broke reality. Well not really, but it had ripple effects that gave way to a much softer continuity shift than crisis on infinite earth's. One of them was Jason Todd's corpse reanimating and walking around mindlessly. Talia picked it up (because I guess Bruce doesn't visit his son's brave often) and took in the walking corpse Jason. She noticed when grabbing him that his body remembered how to fight. After trying different things, she (against her father's wishes) dipped his walking corpse body into the lazurus pita which fully revived him and gave him back his consciousness. The new 52 said F that, its too confusing, so they changed it so that Talia just dug up his very dead body and dipped it in the pits to revive him. Then turned him over to be the chosen one for a secret assassin ninja sect against evil monsters where he'd also meet one of his many deadly girlfriends. Simple Oh and DC Rebirth also said "everything that happened pre and post new 52 is Canon, just not really, LOL JK it is (but its not though)." Which is probably why a DC ultimate therapy session sounded like a good idea (and I agree, too bad that had to be a death event and murder mystery instead).

[@artemiswolf4508]

I still believe this was one, if not the darkest things to ever happen in comics, like sure now we have plenty of messed up Batman stuff but for the most part we are desensitized to it, it’s actually kind of expected at this point. But Robin dying, after that the concept of Batman lost part of its innocence and I would argue never got it back. If it wasn’t for that moment Batman would probably be a completely different character. And to think all that happened because of a proto internet troll with a hate boner for a fictional child

[@tomorrow4eva]

I agree - it was a turning point in Batman's character that is so deep, no retcon can remove it. Hence, love will now be shown with pervasive surveillance.

[@ManbatDetective]

Hmm 🤔 You make a great point Though ‘the killing joke ’was pretty dark if you ask me. What happens to Barbara Gordon is Disturbingly Dark also.

[@manuelrobledo8072]

"The Night Gwen Stacy Died" was heavy for its time aswell, a few years before all of this.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

It depends on the adaptation of batman.

[@TakarieZan]

I think this goes even with Green Lantern finding that woman in the fridge tbh, and the Killing Joke. ... Yeah I am just looking this up now 3 years late.

[@ianfinrir8724]

Denny O'Neal once recalled after Death In The Family was published, he went into a deli. The guy behind the counter noticed his Batman pin and asked about it. O'Neal replied that he was an editor at DC, working on Batman, and the guy shouted "Hey! This is the guy that killed Robin!"

[@ferrarriohh]

But it gave us both the Red Hood, and this Frank Miller joke! “Oh Commissioner, this is going to be a tough job. It could cost me six, seven Robins.”

[@lemonherb1]

A Death In The Family storyline that resulted in Jason's death also attracted mainstream media at the time. I think Entertainment Tonight did a bit of coverage on it at the time. I did call in to vote for Jason to live, and was disappointed that it wasn't meant to be. I'll admit I wasn't following Batman that much during that time as I had to be judicious on what titles I bought due to a limited budget and as a result, I wasn't aware of the negative audience feelings for Jason at the time

[@Grimmjowluver123]

His story was always interesting and I can at least appreciate/respect what came out of it. And his Robin run is fun to read. I actually got a copy of Death in the Family the other day at Barnes and Noble (I was not about to pass it up with it being the only copy on the shelf). If it’s any consolation, Dick later did approve of Jason as Robin in Batman 416 (White, Gold and Truth). He even gave Jason his Robin suit and phone number if he needed someone to talk to, where Bruce might not (with Batman watching in the Shadows smiling).

[@CasuallyComics]

I feel like at that point it was too late like the damage was done and fans always viewed their relationship as quasi antagonistic.

[@Grimmjowluver123]

Casually Comics Probably. Especially since there was about 10 issues between this and Death in the Family. I always like to think that an effort was at least attempted to have them connect. Though Nightwing Year One might have done it a tad better. At least Dick had a reasonable reaction to Jason’s death and somewhat reasonable response to Tim initially.

[@kforcer]

Greatest victim of Jason Todd's retcon was Killer Croc. He never regained his former gravitas after they wiped his murder of Jason Todd's parents from continuity. He went from being one of Batman's deadliest and most ruthless villains to a step-up from comedy relief.

[@timba3olf568]

I saw in some documentary a long time ago (very specific, I know) that part of the backlash against Robin's death was that it attracted the attention of people who didn't read comics and didn't know about Jason Todd, so they assumed Dick Grayson had been killed off. Ergo, outrage.

[@wwbwbgohbc]

Not sure I should have laughed so hard at the go sit and wait with a crow bar line, but I did. lol. More Jason please.

[@sk8vivi]

I imagine that many people find Jason arrogant and disobedient and at various times he is just like that, but he has his reasons that are even very sad, and make him a very complex character and different from other Robins. You can see in the comic "Three Jokers" where Barbara Gordon tells Jason that she would like to be there to help him when he needed it and that she and the entire batfamily care about him. In this scene, Jason says that no one has ever said that to him. This scene is very important for the knowledge of the character because you can see that everything Jason does as Red Hood is because he thinks Batman doesn't really like him and doesn't care about him, which is a lie, but if he stops to think about it, Bruce has never been good at showing feelings and has even told Jason that "he doesn't have to put up with his rebellion because he's not your father." I think Bruce should try to talk to Jason, apologize sincerely, explain himself properly, like Barbara did and maybe Jason would understand him. Of course Bruce has tried to talk about this with Jason, but I feel he doesn't really try and doesn't really try to understand Jason. his dialogues trying to help Red Hood are like: -Jason, I can help you -I don't need help -ok (Batman leaves without insisting as if it doesn't matter)

[@DelphiniumRai]

The video was amazing as always! I would love more vids about Jason Todd or just the "batfam"' in general. I've seen so many fanarts with all of the Robins and barbara and etc that I think it would be cool to have maybe like a timeline vid with short introductions about how each of them joins Batman or maybe a video series with dedicated episodes on all of them like this one! Also you look stunning and I love your outfit!

[@slodrift4251]

Lol Batman is the one who was being an asshole, but someone else(Jason) is having to answer for it so Bruce can keep his ridiculously overblown pristine reputation-I’d say I’m shocked but ...🙄 Poor Jason

[@MrTumshie]

I'm not sure there was anything in this video that I haven't heard before due to my reading comics since my late teens and being really old. One aspect that sometimes gets overlooked about the death stunt is that it was pretty much only readers in north America who could take part, and I wonder how big a section of the readership as a whole that was. Reading American comics was hard work here in Scotland back then as there were very few shops where you could reliably buy them. As in 1 or 2 in the whole country. If you didn't live in Edinburgh or Glasgow you were left with whatever issues trickled through to local newsagents which was incredibly frustrating! Another problem of being really old is that sometimes when you type a long comment you forget what point you were building to by the time you get to it... Anyway, this may not have been news to me but it was presented in the engaging tone I've come to expect from Sasha. And the biting wit. It's the wit really that keeps me coming back. Keep up the good work lassie!

[@slake9727]

Same for me, issues trickling down. Never able to get a complete multi-issue story. So very frustrating but I made do back in the 70's cause there was no choice in Newfoundland.

[@johnbockelie3899]

" The Joker shot you Robin...., I guess your fired."

[@BeaCanImation]

Ugh. That "go to a building and sit and hold a crowbar" was sick. You've definitely got an antihero vibe sometimes. Here for it.

[@chefedegaru]

Sasha? Damn, looking fierce! Great video like always

[@fetchinglydear]

There's just something really perverse about letting "fans" dictate the fate of a character (who was a child) instead of doing diligence as an author to craft a story that serves the character.

[@HeadHunter-mv2ht]

According to other comments it seems that the writer hated him too and had wanted to kill robin off but was convinced to put it to a vote, so he made this robin a annoying little punk so that the readers would hate him.

[@sunshineyrainbows13]

Word. Killing a child in such a violent way is straight up demented, much less for fans. Made a great story in the long run, but the original intention can't be overlooked.

[@juliagoodwin9510]

Agreed. What the hell DC?!?!?

[@TakarieZan]

Disagree. Really it is just as much on the fans cause the author could go "hey, maybe I am just biased", but vs a collective its a bit different. Cause the fans could have easily voted in majority for him to live, but they did not.

[@bowmaj8666]

It just felt like the writers going "What do the fans want? They want him dead? LOOK FANS! JASON TODD IS DEAD! HOORAY! SEE, WE HATE HIM JUST AS MUCH AS YOU DO! SCREW STINKY JASON TODD! Yeah, see? We get you! We're on the same level! So you love us now, right? Please keep buying our comics!"

[@richardmark9161]

I was around for this era of Jason Todd. I personally didn’t call-in to vote because I thought the whole idea was stupid. I wasn’t surprised by the outcome. I wasn’t surprised by the backlash either.

[@cristinaacosta8938]

I know of people that don't like how convoluted his resurrection is, but I just love it, to me it's perfect. Also, yes, more Jason, all the time. Not kidding, I love seeing stuff about him. Him and Stephanie are probably my favorite bat - kids, with Raven being my favorite DC character. All in all, I look forward for what you will do next. P.S. I yet again have issues with the latest issue of DCEASED, there is just no pleasing me, or so it would seem. Love ya, take care.

[@DaveMania01]

Probably watched like a dozen videos about Jasons death by now, and still can't wrap my head around it. Comics were so much different ...

[@jessewilley531]

I've always thought Jason Todd had Doug Ramsey Syndrome. He's a character EVERYONE hated while he was around, but once he was dead, everyone started to realize how cool they secretly were.

[@julieratliff6705]

I came across this way later than you recorded it. I have a different perspective on that time than you do. A lot of people I knew (ahem, myself included) didn't care about Jason at all, but we voted to kill him just to see if DC would actually do it. It's not a pleasant admittance, but that's why the crowd from my comic store back then did it. Then years later, I used to use some essays from "The Many Lives of Batman," and O'Neil had a passage in there where he claimed he never expected the vote to go against Jason, and he claimed that the vote was really close.

[@andrewt6338]

The part that got me was his mother selling him him out. As I remember, she turns away and lights a cigarette. Damn, that’s cold. And guess what the “ T “ in my name stands for. I always liked Jason for that reason alone.

[@Xehanort10]

Jason didn't deserve it but Sheila certainly had her death coming.

[@crimsonking4151]

Jason Todd was the Robin of the 80’s. My mentor who was in middle school during the late 80’s said he remembered making the call to kill Jason cuz he hated Robin in general he didn’t care if it was Dick or Jason lol.

[@JamilynParks]

Great video Sasha. I appreciated the refresher and the pre-crisis info that I wasn't really familiar with. It's a coincidence that I watched this and your video about Witchblade being your intro to comics on the same day. While not my first comic, "A Death In The Family" was my first trade paperback or graphic novel. It felt like such a big deal to me. I had seen the ads in the back of comics from the time, but didn't really know what all the fuss was about until I asked the guy behind the counter. I was very emotionally involved in that story and kind of confused. I happened to have had the issues where Jason Todd steals Batman's tires and gets sent to Ma Gunn's school for boys. I had no idea that he was going to become the new Robin. When he did, his hothead bad boy attitude (depending on who wrote him) was really different for me. I of course was too young to want a good guy to die (or anyone really), and didn't think that he really would, even though it was there on the cover and in the name. I read that collection cover to cover more than one time. It was so realistic to me back then. There was courtroom drama, family drama, Batman fighting terrorists, Superman showed up, Lady Shiva, The Joker was dealing with Ayatollah Khomeini, who I remembered seeing on the news and was very afraid of. One of the more enlightening aspects was the backmatter collected that had the ad with the phone number explaining the real world situation and showing the alternate ending. As much as I wanted that ending to be true, to be canon, something about the ending we got... seeing Batman grieve, and knowing that Alfred had to dispose of the bodies, seemed to be a better more realistic story to me. It felt mature, not to mention a little scary. I'll never forget The Joker and that crowbar. It was disturbing, but also introduced me to a type of storytelling and emotional impact that I hadn't found in any other form. Wow, this comment ended up being way longer than I expected. I'm gonna bail out now. :)

[@angryspork610]

When I got into collecting, Todd was mentioned as a tragic, cautionary tale. I didn't have a lot of investment when he was resurrected (in a really dumb way), but becoming what you may call an anti-villain made sense. It made him an interested adversary against Batman and his allies. Then the New52 kind of tried making him "snarky Punisher" or something, and it's baffled me ever since how he has a fanbase. Maybe if I'd seen Batman actually care about one of his wards turning their back on his teachings and killing his foes, but it never seemed bother him, from what I read. Perhaps there were explanations in Red Hood in the Outlaws, but what I saw of the first issue was enough to turn me away from the title--and anything with Lobdell's name on it.

[@toufuelo]

I've never heard the story of a guy rigging his computer to call and vote. If he did vote a thousand times, that's an expensive phone bill considering it was a 1-900 number.

[@victoriaguillory7175]

I love Jason Todd! I'm not a huge DC fan in general, but the Batfam has a special place in my heart. Dick and Jason are my favotlrites out of the robins, I love the contrast between them, and their contrast with Bruce. Also JayDick or Nightwing/Red Hood is one of my fave DC pairings lol. I think Jason's character is very compelling, the black sheep of the Batfam, so much like Bruce that they can't get along, all the potential angst and hurt/comfort.

[@irmihuhnchen5222]

You read my mind. XD i don' t read many dc ff's or fan art etc. but most of it is about the bat family and my favorite pairing is jayDick too.

[@pamelaisleypoisonivy9411]

Ew.

[@Arisutocrat]

Yes, please I wanna hear more about Jason.

[@lotusdumplings7066]

I think an important thing people forget as far as why Jason was hated is just a simple thing: social and political climate. Jason was a criminal and he had no patience for those who used or hurt the little man. Not only was the entire discussion around redemption of criminals much different at the time, but he was also impulsive and harsh in a way real life kids can be but comic kids rarely were. There was little sympathy for his anger, as well, because in an environment when the type of crime wasn't all that distinguished he was just a criminal who hated other criminals, and not a kid boosting tires to survive who hated abusers and pimps. It made him seem like a hypocrite.

[@JackWard66]

I'm sadly old enough to have read "Death in the Family" when it came out. I actually really enjoyed that they killed Jason, but not glad they got rid of him, if that makes sense. I love characters that are troubled. But then I loved Dr. Pulaski instead of Dr. Crusher in The Next Generation because she wasn't always sunshine and rainbows and caused actually some kind of conflict.

[@timsmalley7432]

dr crusher rules

[@grinreaperoftrolls7528]

Overall, I’m kind of glad it happened because it gave us “Batman: under the red hood.” I love that movie. And it also contributed red hood to the 3 jokers story.

[@licittofficial]

Will you please cover "The Darkness" or "Shadow Man" comics?

[@gonzaloegonzalez8106]

Funny how Frank Miller killed Jason first in Dark Knight Returns that was the reason why Batman retired... But in Miller defense he didn't show how it happened.

[@barneynedward]

That auto dialing rabid super fan must have been a young Dan Didio

[@oliverortiz8507]

The first part of his many origins I did not know about. Another good one. More on Jason please.

[@markmaxner4060]

The killing of Robin was the worst thing DC ever did. Then the Death of Superman is next.

[@Shimarenda]

I wasn't reading comics when the death of Jason happened (I was, as it were, both to old and not yet old enough to read comics). I can believe that people found it very gruesome however. I recall a comic when I was about 10 in the mid-70s where Dick was beaten nearly to death in a back alley; it was at that point the most shocking thing I had ever read. Blood and the ability of the human body to withstand punishment have certainly increased over the decades since the "bronze age" began, but back then, it was horrifyingly brutal. Maybe do a video on the escalation of physical trauma in comics?

[@EdmondDantes224]

I recall seeing a documentary on TV once which gave another perspective on why there was backlash against the killing of Jason Todd. That perspective being that a lot of it came from people who were at best, casuals who weren't aware of the whole "Dick Grayson retired and now Jason Todd wears the suit" thing, or basically only knew Batman from the 1966 series... so they basically thought that it was *Dick Grayson* who got killed. And it was this set of crossed wires and misinformation that led to at least SOME of the backlash. The same documentary had a part where two comic writers told this story of going to a bar, and when asked, admitted they wrote for Batman comics, and then had the barman call out "Hey! These are the guys that killed Robin!" (It led to embarrassment, not a brawl).

[@jacobwilliams1223]

Seems like DC set up Jason to fail more than anything. The actual stuff they did with retcon Jason to alter his origin & character was great. A fresh character who was anything but a Dick clone and with a new dynamic with Bruce to explore. But having Dick be disrespected and then replaced rather than just let him approve of Jason like before basically gave fans fuel to take their anger on the new guy.

[@frogmouth2]

What’s funny is they basically made all the same mistakes again with Damian Wayne. Except the permanently dying part… well that definitely wouldn’t be a mistake for Damian but still.

[@magicpumpkin3]

The end of the 2nd Robin was a good thing because...... 1. Batman got back to being a darker more driven Batman. 2. Tim Drake became a great Robin that fans didn't hate as much or at all with a great new look. 3. Jason becoming Red hood was a win win for fans and the character. I was alive and voted for this... I didn't hate Jason but he was never going to replace the large shadow the first Robin cast so all in all it was a good thing because change is good and Jason became loved as Red hood instead of hated and unwanted as Robin..

[@Rebelxstudios]

I liked his resurrection, but felt turning him into a hero/anti-hero depending on if he was hanging with Bruce that week to be confusing.

[@jonathangoode546]

I actually like Jason Tood he was the Robin that needs no back up ROBIN WAS FUCKIN UP BAD GUYS . He was giving Batman the upper hand this robin to me was courageous .

[@greyhoundverona]

I was one of the haters. I called in for his death. Probably spurred on by the open question whether Jason had actually murdered a guy in the comics immediately preceding Death In The Family. Starlin really leaned in to making him a problem, and a future villain in the making. By the way, I'm enjoying the hell out of your channel.

[@ME-qs4nq]

'It was ME, Barry'

[@GabePuratekuta]

Well, he did almost kill Penguin.

[@michaelnemo7629]

I lived through that time and bought some of the Batman issues and the reason that I remember Jason not being popular was that he was an ass. He wouldn't listen to Batman. He did what he wanted. And he made things happen that put heat or Batman in jeopardy. Anyway that's what I remember. and I think fans at that point were interested in a sidekick that was happy to be with Batman that was interested in being with Batman and that listened to Batman.

[@TheChrisHype]

Jason Todd. Bucky. Uncle Ben. Gwen Stacy. In my mind, they are the four that should never ever EVER have come back from the dead. Now a days, technically, we pretty much have three of the four in the land of the living, making the deaths less of an impact.

[@tomorrow4eva]

Uncle Ben is still holding out strong.

[@PhantomSaysHi]

I may be biased considering I have Jay in his Red Hood incarnation tattooed on my thigh....but yes please all the Jason videos.

[@mrbruce307]

I remember all this story. The voting was a big surprize. Thanks for the work you do to make this happen...Yes, I am a very happy reader

[@youtube_handles_are_annoying]

so batman kidnappped a young child, started calling him by his older son's childhood nickname, dressed him like his older son, and made him dye his hair to look more like his older son, you know what maybe fredric wetham had a point

[@JanArrah]

Every time I hear Dennis O'Neil instead of Denny it makes me crack up... every time..

[@deviousclass5499]

I'm a little sad they didn't stick with ginger Jason dying his hair for continuity... And I can somehow understand why fans were siding with Dick ^^' (even if they were too harsh on Jason)

[@Grimmjowluver123]

That would have been fun. Especially since you could have called the original Outlaws (Jason, Roy, and Starfire) the ginger musketeers or something in the like.

[@irmihuhnchen5222]

I stumbled over a fan comic strip a while ago where someone was washing jasons hair and was like "i think i washed a timeline out by accident" and then jason had red hair again. I think the artist was called inkydandy or something like that

[@Grimmjowluver123]

Irmi Hühnchen I know which comic you’re talking about. It was by inkydandy and it was Tim that was washing his hair to “get all the dirt out”

[@deviousclass5499]

@@irmihuhnchen5222 I know that one. It's why I'm so pro ginger!Jason XD

[@sixdollarman1362]

Good coverage of the event. However, I have a hard time believing one person redialed for 8 hours on the phone poll. I remember this storyline when it was happening and it wasn't a free call. I guess it could have happened that way but they would really have had to have extra cash and extreme hatred for Jason Todd. Personally, I never believed they would kill the character. Man , was I wrong!

[@RooftopRose079]

The redials were believed to have been done with a computer program. One loop function to continue until the individual turned it off was certainly well known. Not hard to do, even back then. All they would have needed was a keyboard, maybe a screen and a telephone line. As for the cost, there were rich people with money, and jumping onto some big company's phone lines that saw large amounts of call outs wouldn't have been difficult with such lax security measures.

[@sixdollarman1362]

@@RooftopRose079 You very well could be right. I actually liked Jason Todd's flawed character and would have liked to see where his story went. I believe it would've been more difficult than the depressed Batman we saw. Trying to teach Jason to be a more moral sidekick would be a hard tale to tell. He may have ended up as the Red Hood anyway.

[@cassiedevereaux-smith3890]

One of the things you have to remember about the backlash.... I was a teen then and remember it well.... is that it was still a time when people had no idea there WAS more than one Robin. There was only one to them. It made headline news... I remember seeing it on network nightly news... and people were imagining, like, Burt Ward getting beaten to death by the Joker. It was shocking, and it was still a time when comics were seen as exclusively for children. A lot of people still pictured Batman and Robin as these wholesome, kinda campy All American™ characters to entertain young children. Superheroes were for the wee ones... something you were expected to outgrow by the time you hit your teen years. I was reading them as a teen and I got the side-eye from adults and peers alike. This was before Tim Burton, and a "Dark Batman" seemed like an oxymoron. So to the person who wasn't reading comics but grew up with the characters... the majority of the public.... it all seemed really, really perverse. People were *OPINIONATED*. It really did cause a shockwave through the cultural landscape... I remember it well.

[@pierce_13]

All of the people that I knew who voted to kill Jason did so to keep continuity with The Dark Knight Returns. Frank Miller had insinuated that something bad had happened to Jason; they were under the impression that he had been killed, hence the negative vote. In retrospect, it was a bad decision.

[@mokwella]

I'm not sure if you mentioned the one aspect of criticism of the death of Robin at the time: in the general public there was absolutely no knowledge of Jason Todd - the general impression was that DC Comics killed the character most people were most familiar with from the Batman TV Series. When DC Editorial tried to explain that they didn't kill the "real" Robin it was viewed as a cop out and hugely cynical.

[@jamesdietz29]

I think the Jason Todd story is one that got better over time. People hated it at first, but now... I don't think they'd have it any other way. He is, by far a more dynamic character now then he was back then. I will say that the story of his death would have had more impact and been more meaningful if it wasn't couched in that silly voting promotion. Like, if you just picked up the latest issue (then) of Batman and by the end of it Robin was killed, no lead in, no vote... just !BAM! surprise city... it would have floored everybody!

[@tigerbread78]

Batman laughs: EVERBODY RUN!

[@ohgoditshimrun1346]

If there is a followup of Jason's multiple origins, I hope that you will address how the DC Animated version of Tim borrows so much from post-crisis Jason. But I shall see as I continue to dig through your back catalogue of videos.

[@johanmalm8378]

Nice how you matched your lips with your outfit.

[@lionboi2]

Rumor I heard at the time was O'Neil had his staff calling the death number due to a personal distaste for the character, and he never even wrote the survival story.

[@Lukecash2]

No. Editor O’Neil planned for either way. If Jason lived, he’d be messed up (Coma) and out of commission: Batman would be equally as angry. But here is the thing: Writer Jim Starlin HATED Jason Todd. He started stacking the cards against Jason by having him get more violent, cruel and disrespectful.

[@Bolsonaro_em_Haia]

The vote was probably not a good idea, but the post-Crisis origin of Jason was careless at the very least. It made no effort whatsoever to be either convincing or respectful towards Nightwing. Not having a clear origin for the character at all would have worked far better.

[@brianrebmann5398]

Excellent video full of history and facts which I enjoy a lot. Thanks for a great video

[@ScarletSilverIron]

I like the original Jason Todd costume.

[@lancealot4943]

I like that Sasha says she can't find her glasses and gradually goes out of focus in the video

[@Angellisable]

Love the non-glasses look... Ok, back to basics

[@richardranke3158]

I loved the original Jason Todd. True,his origin was a lot like Dick's, but this all seemed to fit. As for the revamp, I didn't like it at all-so I was one of those who voted him dead.

[@joeb5316]

A lot of the folks in the thumbs down crowd (I was one although I couldn't vote: back then phone companies allowed parents to block 900 calls [read the fine print on the advert, each time you Dailey was 50 cents]) didn't want Jason dead as much as gone. If there was a third option 'Jason lives but walks away from his role as Robin', that may have been the winner. But many of us saw the bye-bye result as the only way to get rid of a character that we felt was dragging Batman down.

[@chrisbuttonshaw2088]

Jason's 2nd origin = BETTER How DC set Jason up = bad

[@jaycurtis5036]

At the time of Jason Todd's original appearance there was a plan to kill Batman and have Dick Grayson become Batman. Nightwing was just supposed to be a temporary identity. I have heard this was dropped because it leaked. Also Twoface was to be Batman's killer. Also at this time Superman was to die and be replaced by Lex Luthor, his killer. This story was that the world needed Superman and that is why Lex took over. Also stopped because of leak.

[@ivane5110]

If they ever revisit the Merged Earth of the original DC Multiverse, I hope they don't mistakenly have Todd acting at all like the later reboots of him. And maybe even have him go back to being a redhead while out of costume. But I'd be too worried about modern, grimmer portrayals of, well, everything, warping the heroes I grew up with into being pretty much just one more varient. Earth-Two's Superman and Earth-Prime Superboy sure seemed to skirt that. And Batman in the Legends of the DC Universe: Crisis on Infinite Earths was more just a modern Batman.

[@ariellakahan-harth8831]

I would love to hear more about Jason. This was fascinating.

[@georgiawilksch5708]

I’m currently reading the Death in the Family run, trying to get a handle of the big events

[@wk3820]

As an old-time fan, I remember that Jason was actually very popular until he was replaced post-Crisis by an edgier version. It was DC's biggest mistake in the retooling of Batman mythos. Fans didnt want a jerkwad as Robin.

[@CasuallyComics]

It's funny cause now I feel like jerkwad Robin is all the rage lookin' at you Damien lol

[@azzyroth]

I remember this getting real tv news time, but the reporters didn't really do enough research and gave the idea that this was Dick being killed not another charcter. They also did a lot of connecting with the Adam West and Burt Ward TV show, I think they even interviewed Ward to get his reaction to them "killing his character"-don't quote me this could be only in my head. This being said, some of the most vocal backlash came from people who didn't read comics and who did not have fanboy reasons for attacking the death.

[@thespidercrafter8547]

Fan's Hated him as Robin But Fans Loved Him as Red Hood

[@ianfinrir8724]

And this is why writers shouldn't listen to fans.

[@amilcaredmund1423]

im sasha and i cant find my glasses ......... yes

[@ceve]

A death in the family was one of my favourite comics ever as a kid and my only interaction with Jason Todd up until Injustice (I didn't know he was revived before, that was a shock). I don't know where to begin reading the new Batman comics, but I would love a recommendation for someone who's way out of touch with recent runs.

[@haydenweaver8871]

This goes out to all you haters it's cool that Jason Todd died and became Red Hood but you guys really need to stop hating

[@TlalocW]

When the call-in poll happened, Penn and Teller expressed mock jealousy over how easy it was to get rid of one's partner.

[@wavemaster4891]

I wan tall the Jason Todd, Squirrel Girl, Booster Gold and Power Girl

[@echoparkwino7598]

The Arkem night video game were you find out Jason is the main villian is freaking amazing. the guilt the drama the freaking fan service.

[@richardmark9161]

The backlash was mostly from people that weren’t actually reading comic books at that time. For all they knew it was Dick Grayson that was killed by the Joker. There were a lot of news reports and newspaper articles on it. Most people but haven’t read comics in a while didn’t even realize that it was a different Robin altogether. They knew nothing of Jason Todd. It didn’t help that Jason looked exactly like Dick Grayson even down to the golden age era double spit curls.

[@gundanium3126]

i wish we would get more explorations on what Jason would have been had he not died. Especially with Helena Bertinelli. Would she have been younger around Jason's age...would they have met...would they have had a prior relationship. (i ship these two together) Its funny DKreturns (1986)literally predicted Jason's death.

[@timsmalley7432]

omg Nightwings Elvis outfit!!

[@nicholashodges201]

Personally, I prefer the post crisis origin. It really sets him apart

[@baron7755]

I asked my dad if I could call and vote, but since it cost a little bit, he wouldnt let me. Also, he thought it was morbid.

[@jimbob06]

5:28 Impressed by his WHAT

[@recursivecoin359]

The way I remember it as a kid... Comics were getting grittier with the Punisher, Judge Dredd and Frank Miller's Daredevil. The cartoony Robin wasn't grit enough and provoked homophobia. That's why my friends and I voted to kill him off. We were post-punk ansty boys who thought metal and darkness was cool. The lonewolf solo Batman was awesome... and Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns proved us right! Even though there was the girl Robin... but whatever... we were still right, man 🤘

[@petergilveet6666]

It's so ironic the Frank "loves torturing Dick in every way possible" Miller thought Jason's death was too much.

[@brotherkellymatthewbarnes8882]

New Teen Titans Issue # 1 Best Line *"Goldie here makes Loni Anderson look like Olive Oyle." -Gar Logan The Beast Boy (Formerly of The Doom Patrol)* . Yes Kiddos Starfire's Skin Is Gold Not Orange.

[@brotherkellymatthewbarnes8882]

Not to be confused with the 1970's Starfire, from an Alternate Future.

[@wonderwomanguy]

Jason Todd's best line was when he was trying to brainstorm a new name for him and Batman and came up with "Batman and guano!" It was all downhill from there.

[@jayquelinmydude]

I'm pretty curious about your opinion on fan-comics/Indie comics! I've seen a surge of them on social media and I wonder if they could become as mainstream as any other Marvel/DC product.

[@KennAKALeo]

You didn't mention the cookies!!! You didn't mention Jim Starlin's hatred of teen sidekicks!!! How can you explain Jason Todd without those???

[@natturnertv]

Jason was perceived by many as just a punk. Not Robin worthy even though we knew things had changed because of Crisis. I can't remember but did the Teen Titans retcon Robin because Grayson became Nightwing in 1984? "Call in" lines were a popular thing going on and I remember some people who did vote to kill off Jason (none had a computer but did have crow bars.). When Jason was being killed off our local tv station was showing "new episodes" of Dr. Who and they just killed off a very unpopular companion at the same time. The shock of Jason's death was at a time where DC had whacked a few favorites like Barry Allen and Supergirl. But no outrage when Alfred died in the 60's(the comic was unpopular at that time.). Plus Batman was supposed to be "darker" due to the popularity of the Frank Miller Dark Knight comic so how he died didn't shock me. And Jason's resurrection was met with an eye roll.

[@coocoobananasz]

Interesting I remember reading wiki articles about this years ago I like want to be into this it's fun

[@newguy90]

There was a large, vocal minority at that time who hated the concept of Robin. Either they believed Batman shouldn't be endangering children, Robin wasn't gritty enough, they resented how Robin reminded them of the hated 60s show, or that Batman worked better as a solo character. It wouldn't have mattered if it meant killing Dick Grayson so long as there would be no more Robin.