CECILY|SOPHINA vs ROWAN vs TYMNA|TANA vs GRENZO - PLAY TO WIN vs JUSTKEVSWILL

CECILY|SOPHINA vs ROWAN vs TYMNA|TANA vs GRENZO - PLAY TO WIN vs JUSTKEVSWILL - cEDH GAMEPLAY

Рет қаралды 41,994

8 ай бұрын

This week we're joined by justkevswill for some cEDH!
DECKLISTS - www.moxfield.com/bookmarks/ZO...
KEVON - linktr.ee/justkevswill
GLOW IN THE DARK DECK BOX - Use code thisdeckboxglows for 10% off! -www.playtowinmtg.com/merch/de...
SIGNED PLAYMATS - www.playtowinmtg.com/merch/si...
PATREON - / playtowin
DRAGONSHIELD AFFILIATE LINKS -
The US LINK - www.dragonshield.com/webshop/...
The EU LINK - www.dragonshield.com/webshop/...
TOKENS/PLAYMATS/SLEEVES/COINS - www.playtowinmtg.com/merch
SHIRT DESIGNS - www.bonfire.com/store/play-to...
TCG PLAYER AFFILIATE LINK - shop.tcgplayer.com/magic/prod...
ALTERSLEEVES - www.altersleeves.com/playtowin
Special thanks to Cyrus for helping edit this video -
linktr.ee/cyrexianmana
LINK TREE - linktr.ee/playtowinmtg

Пікірлер: 103

@MomirViggwilv 8 ай бұрын

One day Rowan will do something cool on this channel

@syndicate5357 8 ай бұрын

I have a list that's super stormy and smashes

@joeyinflames 8 ай бұрын

@@syndicate5357link?

@danskiuss7036 8 ай бұрын

That's what i thought about urabrask 😢

@mfonlyfans 7 ай бұрын

@@syndicate5357 where it be? I wanna see!

@rowrow_ 8 ай бұрын

So opposition agent is a "Control" ability, which is on the second layer of Magic's layer system. If two conflicting permanents are trying to give control (in this case, control of a player while they search a library), timestamps decide whose "control" effect wins out. Therefore, the most recent opposition agent to enter the battlefield has the most recent timestamp, and controls that searching player. With layers, remember OAF: "Oldest Applies First." First opposition agent came in, is the oldest, applies, then the next most recent opposition agent is in, and applies, and is the "winner" of the control effect.

@rowrow_ 8 ай бұрын

To be more specific, Opposition Agent has a continuous effect, which is on the second layer for "Control." Since both of these continuous effects would try to apply over the same thing, Magic uses Timestamps to decide which one is the continuous effect that applies, and since the rule of layers is "Oldest Applies First" the most recent one to apply wins, and the most recent one is decided by its timestamp.

@PlaytoWinMTG 8 ай бұрын

Very well put thank you

@Zaalbarjedi 8 ай бұрын

@@rowrow_ Well, yes, but actually no. You are right that continuous effects of 2 agents are applied based on timestamp, but it has nothing to do with layer system. Layer system is applied to objects and is used to determine the characteristics of an object, as stated in CR 613.1. Player is NOT an object (109.1). Agents' effects interaction is actually described in 613.10: "Some continuous effects affect players rather than objects. For example, an effect might give a player protection from red. All such effects are applied in timestamp order after the determination of objects’ characteristics." Also, your "Oldest Applies First" rule is not always true, because there is, for example, such thing as "dependency system for continuous effects", which ignores timestamps and has its own rules.

@theatog 8 ай бұрын

Goodness. I hope a better answer gets pinned. So many bad information here like @Zaalbarjedi already pointed out. There is a MUCH easier answer. The effect of Opposition Agent is simply ***NOT*** a replacement effect. Magic has a fairly consistent rule text templating. A replacement effect that remains on the battlefield are usually in form of "If ..., do ... instead." The rule described @2:28 is correct for replacement effects specifically. They are extremely easy to identify; just look out for the keyword "instead". Scryfall with "o:instead" to see huge array of examples. Reference: 614.1a Effects that use the word “instead” are replacement effects. Most replacement effects use the word “instead” to indicate what events will be replaced with other events. (Also recommend reading 614.1b~e to see other forms of replacement effect. I didn't include them here because most are one-time etb replacement.) P.S. @rowrow_, highly recommend citing references when you try to explain rules in forms that may remain permanent on the internet. On one hand you might catch your own mistakes. On the other hand, if the rule changes, the reference can still proof you are correct at the time.

@rowrow_ 8 ай бұрын

To those who are saying my answer is grossly wrong, I apologize. For reference, here is Opposition Agent's rulings, which can be found on Gatherer and Scryfall: If more than one player controls an Opposition Agent, and another player searches their library, the controller of the Opposition Agent that most recently entered the battlefield controls that player during the search. Because the last ability of each Opposition Agent is trying to exile the card and give permission to play it, the owner of the exiled card chooses which effect wins. However, that owner will be under another player's control, so that player controlling that owner actually makes the decision. In other words, the player who controls the Opposition Agent whose effect applies (and thus controls the opponent) can choose to give themselves all the play permissions unless they're feeling very generous. As for the rules aspect, Continuous effects and timestamps are used if there's a conflict between those effects in the same layer (613.7), which means it does pertain to the layer system. Players are not objects, but the controlling-a-player effect is at play. And not once did I say it was a replacement effect. In fact, Dylan and Cam explicitly pointed it out in the video when it comes up anyhow. My goal with this comment was to help educate others on this very complex game who might find themselves needing an answer for similar interactions. Hope that clears things up for you folks. Let me know if I missed anything in the original post, or in this one.

@TheViv06 8 ай бұрын

The progression of how completely unhinged the “Begin!”, and now outro’s have become, has been an incredible thing to watch. By my estimate within a year the entire episode will be complete static with Wilhelm screams on loop and I will STILL watch start to finish. Fantastic work as always Cam and Dylan!

@socalacura1338 7 ай бұрын

I think that would be a fantastic April Fool's video :P

@D0nV170 8 ай бұрын

719.1a Multiple player-controlling effects that affect the same player overwrite each other. The last one to be created is the one that works.

@rowrow_ 8 ай бұрын

This is what I was missing. Thank you!

@jakejohnson4986 8 ай бұрын

Absolutely love seeing a Cecily deck out in the wild

@Vagrantlol 8 ай бұрын

Holy moly Grenzo can be scary. Flipping into an early Magus of the Moon is what nightmares are made of. Definitely seems like a Tyler deck. Great video as always PtW!

@Customerbuilder 8 ай бұрын

Rakdos Kinnan! I love it. 4 Badlands and 3 Marsh Flats. What odd randomness.

@MatthewSmith-qd6du 8 ай бұрын

something about the fact that his time sieve was signed by all you guys brings a smile to my face, great video

@ModAnonMTG 8 ай бұрын

Love to see Kev on the channel! Awesome game!

@denissantek4055 8 ай бұрын

The spookiest halloween prank I can think of is Play to win doing the "begin" without a filter.

@dFlits 7 ай бұрын

With opposition agent, you also get to see the hand, almost nobody remembers that.

@Sami-rw8cs 8 ай бұрын

Yes my queen, Rowan. One of my favourite decks…if I don’t knock myself out 😂. Not a CEDH player but love your videos so much, and you both have such infectious chemistry

@bpchongo-.- 8 ай бұрын

Cam and Dylan are freaking awesome it would be awesome to meet them. I love the dynamic duo on scrybabies too! Great decks and fun times on this channel!🎉 another great match

@PlaytoWinMTG 8 ай бұрын

Thanks so much!!

@jamesgreenwood1703 8 ай бұрын

It doesn’t hurt that they are both baddies

@iclimbeverything2990 8 ай бұрын

Bought 2 playmats and a set of sleeves. Love your content guys!

@sirpantsalot123 8 ай бұрын

Dude my Cecily and Sophina deck is one of my favorite decks! I don't have any cedh cards in it really but it's an absolute blast to play

@bruhgh609 8 ай бұрын

Duuuude!!!!! I had an OP Cecily/Sophinia deck that was focused on getting a free cast Worldfire then Teferi's Protection. Glad to see someone built a more competitive, less degenerate, version of this deck.

@ericavanneste 8 ай бұрын

That kev sure is dreamy!

@domiontijerina5066 8 ай бұрын

Kevin's de k seems super cool. I hotta try it out!

@taylorbentley5945 3 ай бұрын

To sum it up, it is time stamped do to the specific layer it applies too.

@thenightangel05 8 ай бұрын

Rowan really is a sweet list, loved the game amd your candid comments about misplays and game knowledge. More players should be forgiving

@user-vc3sw2kt6o 8 ай бұрын

keep playing Rowan! I believe in you Dylan.

@murdermastodon7469 8 ай бұрын

A two mana creature determined that game lol not broken at all. Took out how many creatures and essentially killed two players. Nuts.

@connorpalmer6454 8 ай бұрын

Thassa's oracle is 2 mana, dockside is 2 mana, both control and win games. Same deal but different effect for black instead of red or blue

@Fogshaper 7 ай бұрын

Opposition Agent isn't a replacement effect, that's why the reuglar rules of replacement effects don't apply to it.

@Itsmescoots 8 ай бұрын

We love Kevon!

@keberwevon1 8 ай бұрын

we love Scottie

@baeruttgaming4779 8 ай бұрын

I have a Cecily Sophina deck and I know it's good, but like... CEDH?! DANG

@keberwevon1 8 ай бұрын

the OG sieve deck!

@angelagrace8499 8 ай бұрын

It's pretty fringe but it can work

@keberwevon1 8 ай бұрын

basically just blue farm w some sieve combo pieces tossed in

@yamiyamigorogoro5739 8 ай бұрын

LMAO Let’s goo Primaris Eliminator is such a dope card 😂😂😂

@lilwigese1 8 ай бұрын

Damnnnn I got the Halloween playmat last year can I send it to yall to sign 😅

@GremlinsKilledChristmas 7 ай бұрын

This is what I found: If more than one player controls an Opposition Agent, and another player searches their library, the controller of the Opposition Agent that most recently entered the battlefield controls that player during the search. Because the last ability of each Opposition Agent is trying to exile the card and give permission to play it, the owner of the exiled card chooses which effect wins. However, that owner will be under another player's control, so that player controlling that owner actually makes the decision. In other words, the player who controls the Opposition Agent whose effect applies (and thus controls the opponent) can choose to give themselves all the play permissions unless they're feeling very generous.

@thetimebinder 7 ай бұрын

Opposition Agent isn't a replacement effect. There is no "instead" clause.

@joshholsopple1435 8 ай бұрын

You said signed playmat by my favorite cEDH crew? I haven't bought something that fast in a while. I love how you guys have such a joyous, carefree attitude towards edh. Keep up the great work.

@heirkaiba 8 ай бұрын

Welcome to how layers.... work.... Whoooo!

@Blaze482Gaming 7 ай бұрын

TLDR. Layers. Think of it like painter's servant and Mycosynth Lattice coming into play at the same time. If you choose to have the painter's servant enter first then the Lattice enter after, their effects both apply on the same layer of the game, so the most recent item to enter that layer overrides the past effect. So everything would be colorless. I believe the same ruling also would apply to opp agent here given the static nature of their abilities being a constant game altering effect.

@Zantatoes 8 ай бұрын

The short answer to the opposition agent question is just because it doesn't say "instead" it's not a replacement ability, it's a continuous ability. If it DID say "instead" it would work exactly like you guys thought, Dylan would choose who gets it.

@MageSkeleton 8 ай бұрын

i was sure it was the whole "Active player versus Non active player" thing where Cam would get it because according to turn order his Opposition Agent sees it first while Keven's is still on the stack. But neat, it's the last player who resolved one? what?

@therealax6 7 ай бұрын

The control effects overwrite one another. Opposition Agent is not a replacement effect; it's a player control effect.

@slacker134 8 ай бұрын

Does the glow in the dark box hold a double sleeved deck 👀

@ronb7618 8 ай бұрын

As to the oppo agents, layers and time stamps 😊

@smack80 8 ай бұрын

is this soundtrack by Tangerine Dream?

@MrKeepDying 8 ай бұрын

Will you at some point offer shipping to europe for merch? Or do you already and I am just too stupid to find it? :(

@PlaytoWinMTG 8 ай бұрын

We do already! Just put in your address and it will update

@MrGrovak 7 ай бұрын

That playmat is fucking cool, and I bought it, but dang being Canadian hurts the wallet.

@baulsmcgee1 7 ай бұрын

It's because the last spell played is the first to resolve

@ajaydassani9931 8 ай бұрын

If more than one player controls an Opposition Agent, and another player searches their library, the controller of the Opposition Agent that most recently entered the battlefield controls that player during the search. Because the last ability of each Opposition Agent is trying to exile the card and give permission to play it, the owner of the exiled card chooses which effect wins. However, that owner will be under another player's control, so that player controlling that owner actually makes the decision. In other words, the player who controls the Opposition Agent whose effect applies (and thus controls the opponent) can choose to give themselves all the play permissions unless they're feeling very generous... this was on gatherer

@trixielulamoon2262 7 ай бұрын

I didn’t realize the deck box doesn’t really fit double sleeved cards 😭

@NicJohnson 8 ай бұрын

Aye, nice Scowl shirt Dylan

@PlaytoWinMTG 8 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@fuckthis7508 8 ай бұрын

Cannot wait to read the comments in a few days!

@TripsAhoy 8 ай бұрын

Got myself a playmat! ❤❤❤

@PlaytoWinMTG 8 ай бұрын

HELL YEAH

@bigtree3187 8 ай бұрын

Do you think meren could play in a cedh game, or who do you think would be a better fit in a golgari grave type of deck?

@mark1A100 7 ай бұрын

meren is to slow most likely . old stick fingers is a golgari grave deck

@_rusty_sauce_for_dayz_6036 8 ай бұрын

I wanna see this new narset in action 🫣🫣🫣

@Jose-wq4zr 8 ай бұрын

Tyler is an assassin man

@justineells7518 8 ай бұрын

Dylan was really Rowan with his anchor down...😅...I'll see myself out...

@titak7755 8 ай бұрын

Love Rowan so much, but she feels better as a High Power commander, I'm not 100% sure if she fits in cEDH, but good game, very odd progression if events!

@Fogshaper 7 ай бұрын

why does tyler not kill the hierarch? seems like a missed opportunity to take cam off two colours?

@Fogshaper 7 ай бұрын

of course they start doing that a second after i post this comment.

@jakobwithak930 8 ай бұрын

I believe depending on your rotation for opp agent. Whoever triggers last is the first to resolve so in this case I believe cams opp agent was supposed to take your search

@dimitriosdoulgeris4659 8 ай бұрын

Countering Dylan's Sol Ring would have been so hilarious. Nah, fate has decided that we don't want to you to play proper magic this time. But please don't blame us, it was a higher power.

@SqueezeBurger 8 ай бұрын

Does Tyler get to activate Grenzo on Dylan's endstep if Crypt caused him to die?

@mr.beland6968 8 ай бұрын

Nope! He should have to activate grenzo before the coin is flipped

@fnx.M 7 ай бұрын

Tyler can do that just fine. 800.4i If a player leaves the game during their turn, that turn continues to its completion without an active player. If the active player would receive priority, instead the next player in turn order receives priority, or the top object on the stack resolves, or the phase or step ends, whichever is appropriate.

@SqueezeBurger 7 ай бұрын

@fnx.m thanks for that! Always nice to get a solid answer to a legitimate question.

@MoikHorst 8 ай бұрын

who the fuck needs glowing deckboxes tbh xD

@xXCigarXx 4 ай бұрын

You dont play magic in the dark? Lol

@nigelng325 8 ай бұрын

It's because of the layering system in the ruling along with the reward concept. If a player played a spell with a later time stamp with a static ability, the player took a bigger risk to do so or is behind the existing player, therefore, the rules are rewarding the player that took the greater risk while also acting as a crutch for players that are behind to catch up if they play stronger static abilities. I hope this makes sense

@therealax6 7 ай бұрын

This one's not due to layers because layers apply to objects, not players. (Permanents, spells, etc. are all subject to the layers system.) There's a special rule for player control effects applying here.

@monsteranderdahl3442 8 ай бұрын

GRENZO FTW!!! :)

@gregcurtis6531 8 ай бұрын

Love grenzooo!!!

@nicholasbowdler9447 8 ай бұрын

PRIMARIUS?!?!

@helicopter160 8 ай бұрын

Asked a judge at the mox masters invitstional, tyler is correct about opposition agent is the event owners choice

@Insharai 8 ай бұрын

God orcish bowmaster is a depressing card xD

@flniggl5016 8 ай бұрын

with Oppo agent: the timestamp defines, which oppo user can search, but after the search: dylan in this instance can decide, which of both oppo agent users can play the tutored card

@yonatanlang9715 8 ай бұрын

Didn't you get the turn order wrong at the end? Shouldn't it be Tyler's turn after Kevon's extra turn?

@PlaytoWinMTG 8 ай бұрын

That was Kevin’s extra turn he took in Tyler’s end step!

@Grauzinger1 8 ай бұрын

Kevon used their Time Sieve in Tyler's end step. So their extra turn happens between Tyler's and Cam's turn.

@oateater5044 8 ай бұрын

Tyler can't activate Grenzo on Dylan's end step when he died, because there isn't one. He would have to activate in response to the Crypt trigger and not after the coin flip result. Not that it mattered.