Celestion and Thomann DENIED this about the VINTAGE 30!!

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

Get a FREE impulse of the new one at spectredigital.com/smg-2022-v30-ir-giveaway/

[@Brent-Nelson68]

Glenn, how can you be sure that the difference in the 2022 Chinese V30 isn’t just due to small variations in the tolerances in manufacturing? Wouldn’t it be more accurate to test multiple 2022 Chinese V30s to see if they are all sonically the same?

[@bmxriderforlife1234]

How much you want for rhat 2017 speaker. Industrial metal and black metal tone. Double mic it and make use of that weird harmonic it has lol.

[@rumaoficial4723]

Hi Glenn , I am From Chile,I had the same problem with my v30 speakers and guess what ..are 2017 model!!. So to upgrade the sound I use a small mooer eq pedal with in the fx loop of my bugera 6260. It is always on with a high cut about 6-10 db. After saw your video I bought a 2022 model and did a comparision between the v30 2022 model (wich sounds just perfect). vs 2017 model. I can tell you the improvement in 2017 model sound with the fx loop eq is A LOT!...its Crazy how can close to 2022 model you can get. (i think with a Eq with more refined eq bands you can get even closer to 2022 model). PS. I am a bassplayer 😂😂... A "Tone chaser" so I know how important is to have a good speaker ( I did a lot of guitar and bass cabinets for other People and for myself .Due this experience Ive learned that the speakers rules the other parts of the chain ...Always remeber that they are the ones who "SPEAK" to us.

[@dilbophagginz]

I actually emailed Celestion about this and they basically said the same thing. "It'll sound great no matter what year it was made." It honestly just sounds like PR speak to me.

[@redlionhead5902]

It's the PR people speaking.. They have no clue technically.. Which is not to be expected but still.. this "ill informed" video and the last one speaks for itself

[@AlexWBKK]

How could this be PR talk? A good pr manager would find a way to rebrand them to the "new Vintage celestion 30ties" and make money with new sales from ppl who have the speaker at home already. Like other companies do it. This is the opposite of PR.

[@dilbophagginz]

@@AlexWBKK Yeah, actually you have a point. If their goal is to make more profit, that's definitely not the way to do it lol. Basically trying to convince me to NOT buy a new v30.

[@TheEllis197]

Seems like their goal is to push the new v30’s without admitting they messed up the last decade and a half. If you’re gonna sell bullshit, at least stand by your bullshit😂

[@Chloeeee892]

Yes Celestion. Technically true it will "sound great no matter what year it was made." If you are swapping out a seventy 80 like I did 😐

[@upstairstudio371]

It's wild how the 2017's just disappear in the full mix. Also, the amount of work that goes into these videos is incredible and so well done. Thank you for doing all this Glenn. This video was as nerdy as it was helpful! I cant believe they're really tryna sell it that nothing has changed over the years. Our job is to hear these kinds of differences and now we can see them 😅😂

[@st33Npuist]

They will never tell that some batches are crap.

[@MysteryMusicianoftheNorth]

I love how honest and thorough you are with your videos and tests. You really just want the honest truth, and you will always admit if you are wrong. Very respectable Glenn!

[@alexeysmirnovguitar]

Thanks for the fre IR, Glenn! Recently I mixed a song for client using this IR, and it turned out great. My most aggressive sounding mix to the day!

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

Awesome!

[@StephanS]

I recently bought a 1x12 Harley Benton cab for my Mesa Boogie. After investigating a little, i found out that this already houses the new V30 models, and it sounds awesome! This was exactly the sound i was looking for, but didnt expect from a V30. Thanks to your videos. Please keep them coming

[@BarefacedAudio]

I asked Celestion about this because the V30 has been our stock 12” speaker (although over half the cabs we sell have custom drivers) since we launched our AVD guitar cabs a few years ago. I personally hadn’t noticed a change in the look or sound of that speaker since we started using them in 2019. Celestion’s response was that they haven’t changed the dustcap in that time - but that there is much better QC and various changes which would make a 2022 V30 sound better than a 2006 one. Having designed our own speaker drivers I’m all too aware how the minutiae of surround, cone and dustcap design (and the glue joints between them) have a huge effect on response in the non-pistonic region. So, I think your suggestion that the tonal change is from the 2006 dustcap being more heavily loaded with dope* (*not the drug) is a good one! There may be other factors too but dustcap radiation (and it’s interaction with cone radiation) really dominates the treble region of guitar tone.

[@lifelongpilot]

The 2022B does it for me, such a great sound, especially in the full mix

[@Jrez]

Something as slight as a change in viscosity, and surface tension, of whatever epoxy or plastic material they coat the mesh with could account for some pretty drastic changes to how much ends up on it after applying.

[@luigigetsu]

Exactly, even if the materials are the same, this just looks like some induced damping phenomena is attenuating the amplitude of the response at those frequencies. I would especulate some kind of friction damping change due to the way everything might be assembled/connected generates that sort of local change in the frequency spectrum.

[@TheEllis197]

Basically the opaque dust cap is moving more air towards the center and causing that high end spike.

[@joshuacole6543]

kohle did an interview with nolly where they talked for like an hour about V30s and nolly explains that there are differences in the sound V30s as you go throughout the years. they could indeed not change the design but use a slightly different material or something like that and get a different sound. id imagine a lot of the changes in sound are not intentional but just what happens you build speakers for such a long period of time. and of course the hours put on the speaker impacts it as well

[@richardyoung9773]

In addition, dies and assembly jigs wear and get bent/damaged as production continues, or even get replaced, whcih can induce changes as well as changes in material supply, form companies going out of business to environmental regs. ONly real way to test would be to find out whatever dope is used on the dustcap, apply some more to a "good" V30, and take freq responses before and after. Or take a freq response of a "bad" v30, carefully remove the dust cap with an exacto knife, take antoher freq respnse in the same cab, carefully glue in a completely different dust cap, repeat.

[@stuartchapman5171]

@@luigigetsu I don't claim to be knowledgeable enough to be an expert. I have worked with pro sound engineers in PA. The frequency response will vary from driver to driver. The amount shouldn't be too drastic in quality brands if the same parts and processes are used. Comparison between the two 2022 drivers shows this. One thing I do know is no properly functioning driver has friction, except that which is exerted by the surrounding air. Any friction between speaker components would be from the voice coil and the fixed magnet. This would be due to overheating and melting the winding glue, causing it to work free or from weak/damaged spider and outer cone suspension. In either case that driver needs a recone.

[@trumancarter1299]

I've had '03 versions (was my favorites), Mesa spec 30's, '06, and recently a brand new one '24..the new one sounds incredible, real tight and just bad ass

[@scottreynolds6317]

Glenn, love the evidence!!! If these companies want to really dispute this, then they need to show us their evidence (which they can’t). I look forward to more of your fantastic content. Thank you!!!

[@ronedes378]

I pulled my 12" vintage out of my 1996 Trace Elliot combo , and it looked like the brand new 12" vintage 30 I just picked up for my Marshall valve state . I never noticed the the center cap before, but now....

[@FloridaManRacer]

There's a ton of noticeable difference from speaker to speaker. I personally believe speakers can only hit so tight a tolerance curve due to the production process and the materials used. Even trying to make them as equal as possible, I think there will always be this noticeable a variance from speaker to speaker... Think about pickups. It's all about how they wind them. Each speaker has a magnet and a coil. Those will have slight variance. The paper cone thickness will always have variance. The amount of glue applied will always have a certain variance... I just don't see where it would be any different than buying two sets of passive humbuckers from the same product line, and finding out there is a difference in sound from set to set... That's why tone is always like a treasure hunt. You find a bunch of shit before you find a piece of gold...

[@dannygray4898]

Very good points. I'm learning about all of this stuff, cheers mate.

[@snap-off5383]

Humanity right now really is struggling reconciling "I scientifically KNOW that there's a difference" and "yeah but your senses aren't even CLOSE to good enough to discern even the slightest difference." Yeah we know when you slap a car on the trunk as it goes by you "scientifically" sped up the car, but the statistical significance of that added speed is exactly zero.

[@riangarianga]

I totally align with this approach. Anybody with a STEM background would.

[@PippPriss]

While you are mostly right in the sense that there always be certain room for differences, you cannot nullify actual process differences with this approach. Obviously, the two 2022 speakers had a similar curve to them - sure, some tolerances were there, but the slope as well as the resonance frequencies were close enough to not think of them as different speakers. The 2006/2017 version have such a high boost, that is not explainable through tolerances alone.

[@jonathanstrand2474]

Dunno because 11 DB is a huge difference!, very audible ….that one cab had too much in the wrong freq band, noticeable screech!

[@bryan.holmes]

During the last weeks I researched about this 8 vs 16 ohms thing specifically in V30s. There are several shootouts and technical explanations here on YT. After this I must say that, to me, the ohms of the speaker have a bigger impact in the highs response than being made in China or UK, the year of production, dome type etc. 16 ohms will sound fizzier, while 8 ohms will have that tightness we all love.

[@TheGuitarGeek]

Thanks for this Glenn. I just cracked open my 2x12 and I have the opaque dust caps and the kind of melty connections. Those 2017 you tested sound AWFUL and I have a cab that I am pretty has those models, time to get some new ones!

[@ant_yep]

2022 one i heard a big difference and I don't hear so good lol Thanks to you i can see the differences now. Thanks Glenn 🤘

[@gyslainbeauchamp9241]

Great job Glenn,you giving us the right answers thats why your channel deserve more subscibers,its essentiel to get the knowledge you 're Sharing with us🤟

[@jsamaofficial]

And this is why I trusted my ears over my eyes. Thanks Glenn for saving our money and time for your most videos.

[@sim0n17]

amazing range of difference - in the isolated clip that 2016 sounds interesting (quite good) but the 2017 sounded fizzy (not good). I think I liked the 2016 in the mix the best overall as well - GREAT DEMO with real data - thank you!!

[@purgasound]

I've got somewhere around 30 or so V30's and I never thought much about the differences until my most recent tour. I was using a Silver Jubilee cab with V30's from 2014 and they sounded AWFUL. I ended up replacing them on the road with G12-65's and was happy with the difference. Then when I got home I went into my studio and played another Marshall 1960BV cab and that sounded great. It's wild there can be so much difference within the same model. I mean there's Marshall labeled V30's, Celestion UK, China, I even have some 2003 labeled VINTAGE 30MF that were "designed exclusively" for the MF280 cabs. There's a lot going on when all of us just want the ones that DON'T SUCK. Thanks for the video

[@JaredKeefer]

Thank you so much for this video Glenn! Ever since I found out about specific years of vintage 30s being more desirable, I have been curious to see what the actual differences were from a frequency perspective. It's wonderful to have a resource that provides actual evidence based information about these products.

[@jeremythornton433]

YESSSS! The scientific method does NOT lie! Brilliant, Glenn! Love you attitude and perseverance! Not only could I seriously hear a difference, but I could see it on your graphs.

[@captaintony1227]

I worked in car audio for a few years in the mid 2000's and i was really into car and home audio before that. In my experience the ohm's ratings does make a difference in tone and changer with the size of the speaker as well so a 10" 16 ohm will sound different than a 10" with 4 or 8 ohms. As far as bass goes they get a tinny sound the higher the ohm.

[@youztuber5000]

Speaker location in a cab makes a pretty big difference, too. Try the same speaker but in upper left vs upper right vs lower left vs lower right.

[@Rikamortis6stringer]

Glenn you blew my mind. This is some REALLY GOOD SHIT! Thanks for the heavy dose of information!! Your channel is getting better and better.

[@cdawg-switchhitter2473]

This is what I like to see. I feel like the channel has been lacking in the testing and Experiments department. Everyone loves that stuff right now. Please do more stuff like this measuring speakers. I think the nerdy testing stuff is my favorite stuff that you do man!

[@michaelsnydermusic]

Just wanted to say this guitar player is my favorite that you feature. He plays like he’s on stage and I love it.

[@SuperGuitar38]

I bought 8 V30's in 95' to put in two 4x12" cab's. Glorious! No hi end harshness. Shakes houses but more importantly I found V30's can push a mid scoop way better than say a 50, 65, 70, 80w celestions. As I am a Thrash guitarist they are perfect for me.

[@juanvaldez4043]

I heard that goop is called “dope” it’s to prolong the life of the suspension around the speaker. It’s like changing the springs in your car. The car is the same but the ride “feels” different. It’s probably affecting the sound more than we realize some models don’t have any.

[@millardbrown4769]

Love the research, the evidence and the clips! BTW, extreme kudos to the players - well played! And loved the mix as well, especially the 2022's. Yep - "nothing to see here". Maybe slightly off topic - Many years ago, I had a Vox Viscount (Solid state 2x12) with two Vox "Bulldog" speakers. I have since discovered that these apparently were OEMed Celestions. In any case, they sounded unbelievable - almost impossible to lose in the mix. So I've been a member of the "sound is in the speakers" camp for a very long time.

[@Photoshopper13]

Glenn, thank you for showing it clear what really affects the bass/guitar sound and what does not. Your knowledge is priceless.

[@PajakTheBlind]

Nice to see you conduct these sample experiments. If I were to guess for the underlying reason for the difference: the caps with less of that glue result in less stiffness or whatever are just less stiff and thus less likely to effectively vibrate in the higher frequency region. From my uni class (10+ years ago) I remember that EQ cuts were harder to detect by ear, so some of the differences in these notches might not contribute that much to the sound (since they seem very similar with just a very small tip added to one of them). Very nice job. Cheers.

[@plumbummusic2051]

Hey Glenn! Hopefully I can chime in with some useful information regarding 8 vs 16 ohm speakers: Adam's "Every Celestion Speaker Compared" video, which you contributed some tracks to, showcases the difference between 8 and 16 ohm speakers. Around 5:56:03 he isolates the impedance changes by connecting both speakers to a 8ohm solid-state power amp (that - according to Adam - does not "see" the impedance from the speaker and can be run safely). There is a noticeable change in the top end, one that agrees to the differences heard in this video. Also, in Kristian Kohle's interview with Ignazio from Jensen speakers (called "Meet a true GUITAR SPEAKER EXPERT!", at around 10:32), the interviewed engineer states that a 16 ohm speaker is more efficient, therefore it will have more top end than its 8 ohm counterpart. It's really amazing that we can see and hear all those variables being put to test. Thank you for all the work, keep at it!

[@russellhltn1396]

I'm not sure why a 16 ohm speaker would be more efficient, but the real question is how the speaker manufacturer got the different impedance. 16 ohms would take more windings, but could get by on thinner wire for the same power handling. Since the coil is attached to the speaker cone, I'd expect any weight difference to show up in the sound.

[@plumbummusic2051]

@@russellhltn1396 in Kohle's video Ignazio goes into a little more detail regarding efficiency and windings of the voice coil. Seems like the "standard" way for achieving a higher impedance will consistently make it sound brighter in any type of speaker from any brand.

[@acexxxoasis]

Ohms law and Watts law will describe why there's a change V=a*r w=a*v Let's assume 25v output a very pulled Out my ass number that makes guitar wattage and stuff easier. 25v/8ohms= 3.125a 25/16ohm=1.562a 3.125A*25v=78.125w 1.562a*25v=39.07w A 16ohm speaker operates at lower Amperage so you can push more before they are heating up from current flow electrically. Mechanically using the higher impedance coil should relate to better motor control especially on high excursion platforms because the voice coil will have smaller increments before the following loop of the wire compromising the voice coil. Not saying that one can handle more power than another, but what they can do with that specific amount of power is different.

[@russellhltn1396]

@@acexxxoasis I'm assuming when switching from 8 ohms to 16 ohms, one changes the tap on their tube amp. As for "A 16ohm speaker operates at lower Amperage so you can push more before they are heating up from current flow electrically." that's assuming thinner wire wasn't used to lighten the weight of more turns of the voice coil. Bottom line - "insufficient information - need more data".

[@joesalyers]

I did a shoot out with EV12Ls since we had like 12 of them lying around from the early 80s to around 2018 and the differences were massive, but they all at least had the same character, this V30 test is like wholly different speaker types. I've never been a Vintage 30 fan but the later models sound pretty good. I bought a V30 loaded cab back in 2005 and I absolutely hated it and now I know why.

[@christopherdunn317]

I didn't even need to see the measurements at all ! to hear the difference ! but was proving a point was the issue of the graph thanks !

[@bolusbw]

If you plan future 8 vs 16 ohms video you should keep in mind that the way you connect speakers in 2x12 cab together matters (series or parallel). I am waiting to see this comparison with your approach. From what i recall Adam Steel did video about this topic.

[@Just-Michael]

That last point about the speaker having a massive effect on your tone, no matter what you do, is very true. I was looking at speakers for my Peavey Bandit and the Eminence Swamp Thang was one of the top recommendations. After hearing a number of examples, there was a mid frequency that I didn't really like, but I thought "maybe it will sound different in my cab". It did not. It sounded exactly the same as the sound samples I'd heard. If you don't totally love the sound of a speaker in samples online, you will most likely not like it in your own amp. I'd never swapped a speaker before so that was a lesson learned. :P

[@RedlineTougeJapan]

I was literally searching for a free IR yesterday, thanks Glenn this is also very informative, Learning alot from your channel

[@AMSOfficial79]

You said something in this one that made me respect the hell out of you. Cheers, Glenn. Looking forward to more vids.

[@sounddude47]

I have a Peavey 6505 4x12 from Musician's Friend with the fizzy ones, going to do some experiments and see if moving the mics off the cap is at least some form of harshness mitigation. If not, guess I'll need to buy newer ones :/ UPDATE: I did some ad-hoc testing. It is viable, even with a 57 as an on-axis mic, but it's not a perfect solution. If a fizzy V30 is all you have, then moving the mic off the cap is the best bet.

[@SirLoinMagroin]

I watched your initial video on the 2022 V30. You are absolutely correct. There's a ton of difference both sonically and scientifically. Not to mention optically the dust caps are night and day. Celestion and Thomann are in denial. Shame on them. No matter how you slice it the 2022 V30's are the ticket. They just pop in the mix.

[@jasoncrump1886]

I just bought a v30 this year and it sounds really good . Got it paired with a dv77 eminence speaker in a evh 2x12 and they are brutal together.

[@Jrsystem]

I honestly like how the 2006 sounds tbh

[@douglasdog1]

Thanks for the IR, sounds awesome! Better than the ones I paid for! You inspired me to order a V30 to try again. Been awhile, wasn’t a big fan of the ones I had years ago, but this is the sound I’m after. Now to just wait and see what version arrives!! Put a G10 Vintage on the order as well to compare. I liked that speaker paired with a G10 greenback. Update: received the speaker and it is the new version with mesh dust cap and right out of the box sounds awesome. Sounds very similar to the IR. No ice pick. Very articulate, bright but not harsh, crunchy mids and tight lows. This is through a 1x12 cab, so those properties apply, but this speaker has been redeemed for me.

[@robwoodring9437]

My gut feeling as to why ppl say different impedance speakers sound different is it might not be possible to wind an 8ohm voice coil to have the same mass as a 16ohm. Change the mass of any moving part of a speaker motor & you will change its behavior. Looking forward to that test Glenn!

[@vorpalblades]

The efficiency difference between the impedance causes the change.

[@robwoodring9437]

@@vorpalblades I doubt that. The speaker would be fed by a matched output transformer winding, so there's no efficiency difference. Only way to have a mis-match is if you hook it up incorrectly.

[@vorpalblades]

@@robwoodring9437 there us an efficiency difference between 16 ohm and 8 ohm. That's exactly what impedance measures, resistance or efficiency of the circuit.

[@robwoodring9437]

@@vorpalblades the word you're looking for is sensitivity. It's the spec of a given speaker measured in dB. And unless two models are different by more than 6dB it's too small to count. There will never be a difference in efficiency (how many watts are sent to the speaker) unless you feed a 16ohm from the 4ohm tap. Hook it up correctly, and a 50W amp will give 50W no matter which speaker you use.

[@christophorhill2320]

GLENN! DUDE! Thank you so much for your offering of the free V30 Impulse Responses! Full disclosure, I'm not really much of a metal guy any more, but I've been playing professionally for well over 25 years. I watch your videos because you know your shit, and I learn good stuff I can use. To that end, I loaded both of your IRs into my Atomic Amplifire 6, and I gotta say, it might be my favorite IR. There's more clarity and punch, regardless of which amp or amp mode model I use, or how much gain is going through it. Great work, sir, and thanks again! Thou dost rock!

[@Nightingale1887]

I have a ton of speakers. Old new V30, T75s, 65s, GB, EV12s, Fane, Tayden, WGS, etc. The dust cap makes a huge difference. Old Fane speakers had metal dust caps. They are very very bright. The difference in the conus, the thickness of the paper, the edge doping, the winding of the coil, coil wire gauge, coil coating, conus material, glue, magnetic strength, gauss, magnet material. So many variables. But yeah they have always been the same. Bullshit. Every speaker even same model and year have a slightly different voice. Preference is a thing. In the past I used to really like the modern V30s but in the room and recorded are two different things. Sitting in a mix is another. It's just crazy how much variance you can achieve only in speakers. One of the reason I love 412s is the multitude of speakers working together and against each other doing some minor phase cancellation plus the cab shape, capacity adds resonance and standing waves. It's mind blowing.

[@ledheavy26]

Good stuff using REW, very helpful comparing eq curves. Seeing the curves and hearing the differences should maybe help people also make a microphone choice for their speaker/cab and maybe avoid mics that might accentuate frequency areas they don't want boosted.

[@wmxx2000]

I might be crazy, but the 2015 solo'd sound pretty damn good to my ear. Full mix it's 2022.

[@Rafaelluques]

Extremely well made video with ABSURD quality, However, comparing 8 and 16 ohm speakers as if they were the same thing is like comparing a tiger and a kitten. the way the speaker will react to impedance is totally different. I have an Orange combo with 16 owns V30 and a 1x12 orange box also with 8 owns V30. and the difference between them is brutal even in the same amp (my amp has an external cable output at 16 and 8) to test it in a real way you should test the 8 owhn speakers with twice the power of the ones you test the 16 owhns! I did this test using a Thunderverb 200 with an attenuator and the timbre is very close. Congrats on the video and I love your videos. Congratulations directly from Brazil

[@douglasdog1]

Still using the free IR after a year. Love it! Loaded it on my Two Notes Cab M and Fender Tone Master Pro.

[@charleshoward448]

The 2022B sounds 1000 times better than the 2022 (yes, exactly 1000 times, I measured it)... JK. Awesome video Glenn, thanks for the analysis, visuals and the breakdown/demo with the EQ toward the end!

[@bakelite-era705]

Really great video man. Thanks for making this!!!

[@frankyank2843]

They probably lied for market purposes, someone at celestion figured leave it where it's at. Those new V30's have a great clear mid punch that sits it right in the legible zone. I hear it best in the mix. Thanks for the vid, Glenn, lotta work doin these comparisons, and it's appreciated!

[@PetiteLameque]

I would really like to see a video where you take some 1x12” combo like a Peavey or something that many bedroom guitar players use but doesn’t sound really good, and see if a speaker swap could make the amp sound better. Many players don’t own or can’t use a head & cab, and I’m sure it would help out many players!

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

I did this to a cheap behringer cab… kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5nRoYWAr8t4rpI

[@cyborgjohnny3318]

It's great to watch and listen to those guys play that song! Thanks or the useful info too, I'm inspired to practice more and tweaking for better sound.

[@zAvAvAz]

Awesome Spectre, you have done the world a great service they finally fixed the V30. Maybe you can get Eminence to fix their saddle now also by reissuing the Eminence patriot BLACK POWDER, and the SCREAMIN' EAGLE. Two of the best eminence patriot series speakers for metal that put the Swamp thang' to shame.

[@rodennis418]

Really glad this one popped up in suggested. Super interesting comparisons. With how 'basic' these drivers are, it would be really interesting to inspect the internals. I'd be shocked if the dust cap variation could make that much of an impact but with the newer ones especially, could just be better wire used on the voice coil due to them having to source different materials with all the supply chain issues of that time. Also be interesting to compare actual sensitivity of the drivers. (I understand...only so many tools in the toolbox lol) I always found higher sensitivity drivers were 'brighter' and more 'piercing' while lower were more 'warm' but also a bit more natural. This video really got me thinking about the amount of layers that impact the music from the artist to our ears. Thanks for keeping the brain turning!!!

[@riangarianga]

This is a much better video than the previous! 🤘

[@kaedeschulz5422]

I study and build speaker's since 10years now and the cab resonances absolutely can be treated with bracing and also bitumen for example. The bracing will move the resonance up in frequency and lower the amplitude of them. Bitumen makes everything heavier and lowers the frequency caused by the weight of it while also dampening it a lot. the impedance shouldn't make a difference. For example Wavecor or Visaton make measurements for 4 and 8ohm version and the isn't a difference really. Yet that's probably not with a tube amp. Tubes seem to react very different to impedance changes in which case that could certainly make a difference. "no changes.. All the same" yea sure... No i know what driver manufacturer to be unsure about! Thanks a lot for showing that!

[@styeontheeye3777]

I really really like these in depth videos! I think they're really really cool! Good job Glen! ☺️👍

[@ICKY427]

amazing how vastly different they all are. also speaking of the "free plugins" video, i grabbed the fluff amp sim and it's incredible! i turned 7 plugins that i used to use for guitar into one!

[@satchrules101]

That riff was absolutely killer !!! Gold .

[@BenState]

Bro, you got a sub from Australia here. Your credentials are in your care.

[@hydeane]

Nice, you provided proof of the differences with mad scientist readings, this is not subjective it is technically measured proof. Great stuff Glenn!

[@gravelrhoads]

I like your scientific approach to what is actually contributing to the tone and your openness to taking suggestions from others and adding that to your process. Plus, the guitarist/bassist and drummer you used for the video are on point!

[@aaronhiggs]

Applying scientific method! Shocked!

[@BenState]

@@aaronhiggs not scientific method. outcome needs to be specified with method before testing. this was not that. fail.

[@LifeDrain001]

@@BenStatethe outcomes are very obvious if you’re not special

[@BenState]

@@LifeDrain001 irrelevant to the topic of whether this is a scientific method or not.

[@dougmcgee6075]

My first V30 was a 2017. I have several other 2022 and 2023 models and I can confirm your results. Including the dustcap. Vastly differentl tones between the 2017 and more current models. Much closter to early models.

[@corecreekproductions6533]

I bought a new 2x12 from Thomann in May 2022 and another one in July 2022. I haven’t A/B’ed them so I can’t say anything to the sound differences but the newer one definitely has clear caps and the older ones are opaque, so I definitely see the same visual differences between the older ones and the newer ones that you did.

[@dmac3316]

Awesome vid! I really like how you back things up with evidence. A lost art these days in almost every social venue. Statement plus evidence = credibility.

[@jason.martin]

This is an incredible show and an amazing episode, love this!!!!

[@VVVY777]

The retailers just making sure they can sell all their old stock. Thanks for this kind of service and value you provide, Glenn.

[@chrisj4570g]

Fuck yes, Glen, fuck yes. THANK YOU for repeating the same section of music on comparisons. Too much loud music and construction work makes it hard for me to hear when the sound switches at random times without repeating.

[@TheMixClub]

Dam!! I'm Amazed at the difference. I bet some of the gear folks hate you. But I would like to thank you for taking the time to release content that i can learn from. I would have called bull shit on your videos!! But It's hard to do when you backup your findings. I can say it thanks man!

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

You’re very welcome! I’m glad you enjoyed it!

[@jackarmistead5353]

I loved this video. Thanks Glenn.

[@picksalot1]

Running a Null Test (phase inverted loop of the same source through different speakers) is also a good way to hear the difference between them.

[@Emily_M81]

I mean, it was super, super obvious that the speakers sounded completely different. Something changed or happened in some fashion, whether they want to admit it or not. It could be a supplier changed something while leaving the part number the same, so to Celestion it's "the same part we've used for years" I'm just going to stick to my controversy-free and glorious-sounding Redbacks :D I'm glad you mentioned 1KHz. The phone network focuses on this area, too, because human voice. So it'd make sense we'd hear the difference pretty readily. Nerding out to those EQ charts was a lot of fun!

[@bensan1990]

On last thursday, I ordered a V30 8ohms to pair it with a Greenback 8ohms as well, because there is a difference in the sound between the 16ohms. My 2x12 used to have Greenbacks 8ohms and I decided to sell them because I accidentally ordered V30s 16ohms for my 4x12 to experiment the mix of speakers, but when I got em, I was shocked that my Greenback 16ohms that I had in a 1x12, sounded better than the V30s, so I never paid attention if the cap is the black one or transparent... aside of that, I did recorded the Greenbacks 8ohms before, I really liked the sound, ao when I recorded the 16ohms, I did find a little lack of mids and it was more clearer, more high end and I had to EQ my guitar in a point that almost had to dial the High in my 6505+ at 5 and take the prescence at noon. I will wait until my 8ohms Greebback arrive to see the difference and install it in my 2x12 with the V30 8ohms and hear the difference, but I have IRs of my 16ohms, there will be a way to get the difference and listen it carefully, but I have to check on the 16ohms V30 because I bought them in 2019 I think or in 2020, so I have to see the cap if there is that to state that is the reason I feel my V30 sounding not so great for my expectations.

[@TokiWardguitar]

GLEEEENNNNNN! Great video and I love the way you always follow the science and not your wallet. Also as much as I've been enjoying your improved guitar playing and shredding Priest it was great to see other musicians on here playing some original riffs.

[@metalgear74]

These slight differences, even from speakers of the same model and year, are one reason you get those "special" 412 cabs now and then that just sound fuller than another of the same brand and year. Because when you put four speakers together that really fill-in each other's gaps and/or reinforce one another's strengths it can be magic.

[@frankstetka7206]

Some people may not like this idea, however one can remove the opaque dust caps and A leave them off and pray crap stays out of the speaker or order a mesh cap for it. Now there is no guarantee that the differences in the motor could also make for the major differences in response. Yes 8 Vs 16 will change the response as well. Lower impedance often results in lower bass frequency response, which could be for better or worse depending upon the cabinet or use in multiples.

[@tcfirefreak]

Can confirm, as of July 2021 ALSO have the clear caps. Will be installing tomorrow

[@cjc8497]

Thanks for the IR. Sounds EPIC!!!

[@CanadianRockerGuy]

I have a set of 2015 V30's 16ohmers installed into a custom closed back 2 x 12 cab made out of 3/4 inch MDF wood and it was constructed essentially like a subwoofer cab, with no ports, for massive low end, excellent for chugging and riffing, I call it the earthquake and this little beast sounds better than any cab I've ever heard or played through in person, with every single one of my 20 amps, both combos, heads, and even lunchboxes, btw on your version sampler the 2015 and 2022's sounded best to me

[@dimitris470]

"Wide" and changing tolerances is something very common, especially when production moves to China. And it's certainly not limited to speakers. Choosing parts and learning to tame them has always been part of the game. And thankfully, we have EQs and we are not afraid to use them.

[@kurtbader9711]

I have 3 vintage 30's from 1987 and 2 from 1989. Love them, but I haven't kept up on developments. Anyone who could shed some light on how these compare to more modern builds of the speaker I'd be happy to hear from. Rock on.

[@stevecastillo6826]

Hats off to you Glenn you are one hell of a scientist. You even got the hair to go with it LOL, nice job!!!

[@Pentode3000]

Good stuff, next step may-be bring in a speaker guy and change dust caps, try out coatings of the membrane, add magnet rings to the original magnet etc. etc. etc. or you could find someone who does a professional klippel analysis of the different models.

[@stainless641]

Really like when you do these comparisons and other sound experiments. Hearing and seeing is believing. Cheers. Maybe Celestion and Thomann are trying to discredit this because they both have a large warehouse full of those other speakers to sell?

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

Thanks very much!

[@hoboroadie4623]

Pretty much what first came to mind. ☝ Anyway it looks like they know that they are uttering nonsense.

[@patricklow5652]

Probably not Celestion since they're putting out the updated new version. However, I'm almost certain that Thomann is sitting on a giant warehouse full of V30s with the old dust caps. Don't forget, Harley Benton are selling V30-loaded 212 cabinets for less than the price of two V30s. The only way they could make money from that cabinet would be if they had ordered a gazillion V30s from Celestion three years ago when they introduced it.

[@annekedebruyn7797]

@@patricklow5652 As we don't have any other context than the comment, it clearly mentions that Thomann replied with an official statement from Celestion. So in that case, I doubt it's on Thomanns end. I don't think it's as big as a conspiracy as you are making it out to be. Just Thomann (and other stores) supplying what they received from factories.

[@patricklow5652]

@@annekedebruyn7797 I consider a conspiracy as a cover-up of a villainous plot to deceive or enslave people, which I DON'T think Celestion and Thomann are guilt of. But you're right--I made it sound like they're two companies run by lizard-faced Illuminati members out to fleece guitar players. I don't. I'm big fans of both, especially Thomann. I love them for selling the V30-212 at a fraction of the big brands but let's face it, at such a low profit margin, they must have taken a giant risk and ordered such an unspeakable amount that Celestion sold V30s to them at a rock bottom price. Fast forward 3 or 4 years later and Celestion makes a minor update and our friend Glenn is the only one who finds out it makes a MASSIVE difference in sound. If Thomann is still sitting on a massive inventory of old V30s, what Glenn discovered could easily destroy their investment if the public found out. Celestion also cannot admit that the new V30s sound better because I believe they're obligated to protect their clients and dealers who still have old stock. Guitar gear manufacturers can't simply update their products without hurting their dealers and recent purchasers, which is why companies will only make improvements by releasing signature models and special editions. But now that I've had some time to think about this, I realised that Glenn's experiments only prove that the updated Celestions only significantly sound better for metal guitar. Thomann's statement about last generation V30s might still prove to be true for blues, country, jazz or any genre...unless they provoke Glenn enough for him to hire jazz and blues musicians to A-B test the speakers again.

[@RhiannonTyler]

Love the science and perspective that a speaker is a frequency filter. They probably don’t like the realization that you could probably copy the frequency curve digitally.

[@roberteismann1929]

On a older Marshall type, like JCM 800, Superlead, JMP Mk2 and so on, the 8 Ohm will sound and feel tighter, stiffer, than the 16 Ohm as the impedance selector is tied in with the poweramp's negative feedback circuitry. The lower the impedance the more negaitve feedback goes back into the poweramp, making it sound and feel tighter/stiffer. Not sure how other amps work. This is also the main reason why Marshall2x12s are usually 8 Ohm and 4x12s are 16 Ohm. A 4x12 can handle a looser and bassier poweramp section easier than a 2x12.

[@eamonahern7495]

You're too good at making things sound good because if I was in a band I'd be pretty happy with all of those speaker sounds. There is one that doesn't have enough mid for me but I forget which one. Maybe I'd tweak that if I was in a band you were recording with but most likely not if I had nothing else to compare it to.

[@thelastscarecrow6701]

Acknowledging that you were right would be a shit storm of angry customers, wanting refunds, or different speakers installed. No way will they admit the truth. All I know is a bought a HB212C a few months ago and it sounds awesome!

[@rollingstart_90s]

In april of 2014, I bought a Harley Benton, Vintage 30 loaded 2x12 cab from Thomann. I've used it with my ENGL Ironball, which is a bit "darker" amp, yet I've grown tired of not being able to get a more warm, thicker distortion out if it. I've come to the realisation, that MAYBE I am using the wrong speakers for my taste. Maybe try Greenbacks or Creambacks, maybe? The thing that amazes me, is that unlike the current version of the same Harley Benton cabinet, my old 2014 version can not be opened! I just realised this a while ago. However, the current version does open from the back, like a any normal cab does. I'm not necessarily doubting Thomann and their inhouse brand Harley Benton, but there is no way for me to check, if the speakers inside the cab are actually the ones advertised: Celestion Vintage 30's.

[@rickbloudoff5121]

i think how much the speaker is broken in has a great effect on the tone,and if the speaker was turned up too loud it can damage its tone in bad ways as well,lots of variables

[@nickx1754]

Visual differences of dust caps, tone comparison soloed and in the mix, spectrum analysis... This had to have been a laborious effort but the results speak for themselves. "Ill-informed" claims toward Glenn can be aptly discarded. Good on you Glenn, well done!!

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

Thank you very much, Nick!

[@stickplayer2]

Yeah - and that's an awful lot of difference to claim doesn't exist.

[@PippPriss]

Amazing video! One thing I was missing was following: you tested the 2022 with boosted 7kHz. How about taking the 11db away from the 2017 version? Does that come close to the 2022 as well?

[@Nightweeb92]

If I had to be honest about the V30's in my Harley Benton G212V cab, they lack the deepness I always thought they would have ..still usable but not bad (probably should have gone with the stacked G212V), but that also could be because the Joyo bantamp amps only output 8ohms when my speaker can output 16ohms and I'm using a Meteor lI (not the heaviest hi-gain of all the models). The 2022 V30's to me sounded the best, they were deep and retained articulate definition in the guitar tone and in the mix. The 2022b also had the low end, but the articulation sounded a little muddier. I'm glad you use the tonal science behind it to prove that we're not all crazy for noticing a difference when companies say otherwise.

[@andolf1686]

Another great video G.

[@vintagetubeamplifiers]

As someone getting into speaker re-coning I want to know the specs of the voice coil and what each speakers coil measures, how many wire wraps does each coil have and has that changed in some sort or money saving short cut. Is there a significant difference between Ohm ratings? I also want to know of any differences in the magnet and spider. I do not believe that dust caps, gaskets, glue or foam surround would have anything to do with any tone but I could be wrong. Let's dig deeper into this because I'm with you on hearing the differences. Maybe Jim Lill could do this project as he has blown the whole tone wood bullshit out of the water. All I see here is guitarists who think they know how speakers actually work electronically and bullshit about glue.

[@leepshin]

I was like "rolling my eyes" thinking they would all sound the same because of the KZbin compression, but even through the compression I was able to hear massive differences between the six speakers.