Celsus on whether man is God's special creation

[@richardschatz9848]

Sometimes you find undiscovered treasures on internet. Thank you for these interesting and professionally made programs about Celsus' ideas. I am just sad to see that not more viewers have discovered them yet because they are well worth seeing. Celsus' modern biocentric view and scientific rationality remind me of my favourite philosophers Plutarch and Lucretius. There is also a parallel between Against Celsus by Origen to defend Christianity and Against Apion by Flavius Josephus to defend Judaism. Both Celsus' and Apion's arguments survived because of their opponents writing. Celsus claimed that Jesus used magic to attract his followers, that his biological father was a Roman soldier called Panthera and that his mother Miriam was a hair dresser. Apion claimed that Moses was an Egyptian priest named Osarsiph from Heliopolis that used hebrew immigrants from Avaris in an uprising against the ruling pharao Amenophis. However, the uprising was finally subdued and the rebels had to flee through the Sahara desert.

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

Thank you Richard! This is one of my first videos and I hope to get better. Plenty more videos in the pipeline and hope to have another one up this week!

[@henkstersmacro-world]

Third video I watched, impressed by the quality👍 Celsus was indeed a remarkeble man!!

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

Couldn't agree more! Love Celsus - shame we don't have all his works now - just a portion. Appreciate you liking the videos btw!

[@ronalddonner3396]

I would suggest rather that God is man's "special creation."

[@sarahsarah2534]

I just love the old pagan realism.

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

The age of 'real' philosophy in the west before open thought became heresy

[@Sygg-uj3ze]

"It is advisable to rise early, consume a pair of eggs, and take exercise "

[@gphilipvirgil355]

Excellent presentation, thank you.

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

You're very welcome!

[@gphilipvirgil355]

Wonderful. Thank you.

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

Appreciate you watching!

[@Sygg-uj3ze]

The Moste Jovian, August, and Exaltedly Based, Celsus.

[@shanejohns7901]

@4:21 I'd be a bit more careful with some of the terminology's roots, and perhaps use a few more historical asides. Early man saw, for example, that the breath was 'that which that left the body upon death'. And that gets associated with 'soul' for some odd reason, likely to do with ego's desire to stay integrated after death. But I think even Plato and Aristotle had a different notion of soul. They saw it as that which is inside the acorn that is like a blueprint for its final 'perfected' (which it will never reach fully, due to lost limbs, etc.) tree form. So all animals have souls, under this animistic view. Humans are set apart, however, for having a 'rational soul'. That 'rational' bit was of extreme importance in setting us apart from other animals. Not only setting us apart from the animals, but being similar to the actual 'mind of God', or 'in accordance with the mind of God.' Sure, it's hubris. But who can deny that our rationality has set us far apart from other animals? And I do mean far, by many orders of magnitude. We collectively have the ability to end all life on this planet at the press of a few buttons. No other animal comes close.

[@Sygg-uj3ze]

The Moste Jovian, August, and Exaltedly Based... Celsus!

[@Navili502]

It was Pythagoras who first called heaven kosmos (order) because it is perfect and adorned with beauty and living beings. Pythagoras also said that man is the mikrokosmos, which means a compendium of the universe; not because, like other animals even the least, he is constituted by the four elements, but because he contains all the powers of the kosmos. For the universe contains Gods, the four elements, animals, and plants. All these powers are contained in man. He has reason (nous) which is a divine power; he has the nature of the elements, and the powers of moving, growing, and reproduction. All other species are aspects of man, who is in the center of Life. Maximus of Tyre also expresses the dignity of the human animal as the most divine we can find terrestrially, so it was fit for the Greeks, the Egyptians and the others to make agalmata of the gods in the human image to worship.

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

Interesting. Thx!

[@historicalbiblicalresearch8440]

Must study this Celsus.

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

A wise man - shame his works didn't survive intact.

[@AnnhilateTheNihilist]

Subbed

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

Thx more videos coming :)

[@TomSkinner]

I like your videos. I'm in.

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

Cheers Tom! More in the pipeline I'm working on you might like.

[@williamlarochelle6833]

To this very day, the Catholic Church teaches that "God created everything for man." You'll find that statement in its present-day catechism. In that same book, you'll find this quotation from a Vatican II document called "Gaudium et Spes": "For him the heavens and the Earth and all the rest of creation exist.". All the rest of creation necessarily includes the TWO TRILLION GALAXIES out there, folks. :-D

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

Thx for that! Must read Gaudium et Spes!

[@tysolbohan6446]

Celsus was a Platonist right ? If so I disagree that the ancient philosopher didn't see humans as special at least from the Platonist tradition the supreme architect apparently looked upon all the infinite possibilities that he could have created, and he chose the best possible reality to fashion creation. The gods who are lower emanations but share in his innate goodness made us after that, and they made us bipartite both spiritual and physical the gods then infused us with a rational soul which animals lack after all you don't see animals having a natural desire towards architecture or crafting nor is there a natural innate desire for a religious faith in animals. Now if man is 2 natured soul and body then while the physical cannot reach out to the gods the spirit certainly can and since the gods that made us are good we are fundamentally good the thing that really sets us apart is the rational soul. 1 could argue the reason Christianity spread is how much influence it draws from Platonism the idea of god having emanations which all equal out to 1 which is the trinity the idea that god is all good the idea that god made us dual natured these are heavily influenced from Greek thoughts. It's why I think the Religion spread 1 could argue that any sufficiently advanced pagan or monotheistic system will reach to the conclusion god is 1 but has many emanations. This is because 1 has to explain how God can interact with creation and still be in the throne of heaven and still have his presence somewhere else at the same time. Platonist's say this isn't an issue there are infinite emanations of god but the difference here between Hinduism and Platonism is that the gods are supremely good in all aspects. I despise Christianities shutting down of Greek theological thought for some reason Platonism is called gnostic, but I don't understand how the hell that can work. Plato literally says all reality is inherently good because the architect that crafted it is inherently good there isn't this weird dualism of an all good god evil devil this is not what Plato thought, and he certainly didn't think evil was a byproduct of some evil external being evil is merely the absence of good and can only exist when 1 has turned away from the form of the good so objective wrong and right to exist however the punishment system in Platonism is finite because 1 cannot commit infinite sin hence why reincarnation makes sense because 1 cannot be infinitely good or infinitely bad.

[@waltonsmith7210]

It seems like all Celsus does is use common sense.

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

Was a common sense sort of chap!

[@elumayo4090]

3:28 well seeing as there was no death prior to the fall, it wouldn’t have been possible to eat meat. You could vegetarianism is implied to be the better option as it was what was practiced in paradise

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

Before the fall, Adam was capable of dying. Only if he had eaten of the tree of life would he have been immortal (Genesis 3:22)

[@maninalift]

What Celsus is describing here sounds like the ancient belief in natural selection but not evolution. The idea was that animals would form randomly from components and only those suited to survive would continue. The presocratics also developed an idea of evolution. They saw that there were fish fossils on the tops of mountains, so reasoned that the earth must once have been covered in water, at which time there could have been no land animals and land animals must have been the result of fish adapting to the land. As far as we know, the idea of evolution by natural selection and common decent in the Darwinian sense was never arrived at. It is tantalising that they had evolution, they had natural selection, they clearly saw that children resembled their parents and animals could be bred for certain traits. It seems in hindsight like a small step to put those pieces together. You just wonder whether in some lost manuscript... Sorry, long comment and I've only given a very bad summary of this information.

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

Correct. Perhaps I should have described it as natural selection as that would be more accurate although the two are inherently related..

[@maninalift]

@@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361 to be clear, I meant that my comment was a bad summary, not that you gave a bad summary. :) I've edited my comment to clarify that

[@Chris-op7yt]

very good quality videos, probably not adverised widely, to get more views/subscribers. btw whenever other atheists refer to me as a mythicist, it tastes just like apologists calling scientist work as scientism. they defer thinking to biblical scholars, who have a conflict of interest and more. it's like calling people who see the difference between fiction and non-fiction as fictionists.

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

Thx Chris! More videos in the pipeline! I guess it takes a while for a channel to develop subscribers and likes but I'm enjoying creating the content.

[@jussikankinen9409]

Did celcus knew about cavemen

[@elliottprats1910]

On the extra-terrestrial question its unfair to focus on Christianity when I can’t think of ANY major religion that wouldn’t place them as 2nd class citizens. Creation myths (people, land, water, animals, ect) are central to most religions so ANYTHING that wasn’t created by God (insert religion here) wouldn’t be equal to what God himself created. Since the creation of extra-terrestrials is absent in all major religions, hence all major religions would consider them as 2nd class.

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361]

Good point Elliott. Although I feel generally most eastern religions and pagan beliefs in the west and elsewhere tend to have a more balanced view on the sanctity of life (whichever form of life it may be) whereas the Abrahamic faiths tend to explicitly put humans very much first in the hierarchy of the universe on account of the Jewish creation myth and philosophy.

[@elliottprats1910]

Flavius Claudius Julianus. I can get onboard with that, i can’t specifically recall a mandate from god putting man above all other creations in non-Abrahamic faiths. That being said I only have a cursory knowledge of non-abrahamic faiths so I could be VERY wrong but I definitely agree with your premise.

[@kyyyni]

Were we to contact extraterrestrials, there's then the daunting task to convert them all to Christ. Even if that were successful, we would soon find them developing unimaginable heresies because of communications lag. We could look forward to interstellar holy wars lasting centuries or millennia.

[@Pax-Africana]

We got conned by supremacists from each side but the primary sources tell us that Christianity=Islam and Islam=Christianity. So, rather than be talking about 2 religions, we should be talking about two Traditions as Paul himself put it: One Tradition for the Circumcised(Islam or the Authority of the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15: 22-32) versus the Tradition for the Uncirconcised(the Council of Nicaea based on Paul's Gentilism or Filioism). Each one of these Traditions claiming exclusively the Pristine Apostolic Christianity. As always, remember that Messiah(Christ) is a Prophet(Messenger) like Moses... Deut. 18:15-19 Greco-Roman supremacy sucks; so does Arab-Qureish supremacy ! That said, If you want to know how the atheists' theory of "Document hypothesis" and the Protestants' "Sola Scriptura" are both the two sides of the same coin and why they are both worthless, read the article below... ------------------ ISRAEL AND THE NATIONS PAGAN Paul(Romans 11 thru 9) The Qur'an in the Qur'an(Reminder) refers to the Law of Moses. If anyone couldn't figure out that the title Qur'an on the cover of the book is a fraudulent one, then it is safe to argue that, that person doesn't understand the polemical exchanges between the pagans and the believers not even the content of the Bible for that matter. "We have given you the 7 oft-repeated verses and the glorious Qur'an..." Translation: We have given you the Fatiha and the Law of Moses as the basis for your legislations in rejection of the Roman pagan Law, the papal sacraments, and Trinity. Here is another one: "What! If this Qur'an is from God you believe not but a Rabbi among the Children of Israel attests to its similitude and believe while you proudly reject it..." Does this look like some words from God? What was the Rabbi doing in Mekka messing with Allah's revelation? LOL... Or was he just comparing two translations of the same Torah, one in Hebrew and the other in Arabic? The dude was a Prince-Legislator, a Founding Father, and a statesman "Hear O Israel Jesus is the Messiah, i.e. Christ..." OPTICAL ILLUSION/FALSE REPELLENT! Jesus is Muhammad(the Praised-One), fools. A point was made but you guys missed it altogether due to your poor reading skills. But the adults and the Sufis in the room know that Muhammad is not a given or personal name but a substitute title, a euphemism for Christ/Messiah. Since Jesus is said to be that Christ, then Jesus is Muhammad. We make the difference between Islam and the Arab-Qureishites propaganda contained in the Hadiths, and the "Sira Rassul Allah," etc... That marketing gimmick was meant to capitalize on the pilgrimage to Mekka and not as historical facts. Kaabahism therefore is not Islam! For the "stone that the Mekkan builders rejected and exiled had become the cornerstone..." and it is our Lord doing. We also know that when someone promulgates a Constitution like the Constitution of Medina, receives embassies, passes legislations, proclaims a tax Codes, raises armies, signs treaties, etc... with some neighborhood nations, etc..., that person is in a role of a Founding Father like George Washington, Emperor Constantine, Cyrus the Great, Caesar Augustus or Alexander the Great, etc... We don't take the word "Prophet" in the literal sense. So, If you have ever wondered why a substitute title was needed for Jesus and a name shifting for the Arabian Founding Father, here you have it: "Your people don't want to hear about Jesus. And when His name is mentioned, lo! your people burst into clamor thereby..." That is why an OPTICAL ILLUSION was created: We(the Children of Israel) send you, O Abu Quasim, among your own people so that they may believe in our God and His Messiah/Muhammad/Christ/Al-Massih, help Him, praise Him(Muhammad=the Praised-One), sing for Him evening and morning...." "Remember when Jesus asked, "who will assist me in the way of God? The disciples replied: 'we shall be the helpers of God. Bear witness we are Muslims.'" By the way, According to Acts 11:26 is a Christian he who believes Jesus to be the Messiah, that is to say Christ, foretold by Moses in the Torah but rejected by Israel. "I will send the Christ/Messiah, a Prophet/Messenger like you Moses, Him, they must listen...." Deut.18:15-19; Acts 3:22-25; Acts 7: 1-49 ; John 4:24-26, etc... The word CHRISTIAN was coined in Antioch of Syria and not in Athens, Rome, or Boston. In that sense, Muslims are Christians because for Islam Jesus is the Christ announced in the Law and the Prophets, born of the Virgin Mary. You may as well check the Transfiguration in Matthew 17:1-13 where Jesus "oversees" a meeting between Moses the Lawgiver and someone who would ratify the same Law for the Arabs(the descendants of Ishmael). In Genesis, Abraham was promised many Princes for Ishmael. So the Muslims are Christians certainly not of Paul's Tradition, yet still Christians but the Americans are not... Every American should know, then, that If Jesus is Lord, it stands to reason that Nature's god is NOT. Yet, Nature's god in the Jefferson Bible and in the so-called 'Declaration Of Independence" claims just that... And this is the official position of the American government because Thomas Jefferson was the 3rd President of the United States and is the one who penned the so-called "declaration of independence" which became the Law of the land in the Constitution. Nature's god in the Jefferson Bible inspired the "Bill Of rights" and specially the First Amendment which states that every religion under nature is as valid as the next; this is why polytheism and Idol worship enjoy special protection under Natural Law which pushed out Canonical Law or Sharia Law. Nature's god states that Jesus did not resurrect because there is no such thing as resurrection of the dead; men die and worms take care of their bodies and that, most surely, wild dogs took care of Jesus' body. Nature's god claims that there is no supernatural, no miracles, no virginal birth, no revealed Law since Laws are a construct of societies and each society makes its own laws in accordance with its need. That the Ten Commandments were not revealed and are no better than the Law of Hammurabi. For Thomas Jefferson, the Apostle of Nature's god, Nature's god instituted government on earth to distribute rights without responsibility: right to liberty from morality, right to pursue happiness, happiness for all(We wonder how government will enforce happiness which is not a tangible good), and right to life... Paul, Jesus-Christ's Apostle to the "Pax Romana," on other hand instructed us that Government was instituted on earth by God to keep order, render Justice for the equality of the Children of God in view of the Last Judgment. Nature's god insists that Life stops here and that there is NO immortality: "Let's eat and drink for tomorrow we die, and nothing awaits us after death. Don't be missing out..." Jesus said man was born corrupted and can purify himself with the means God put at his disposal. Nature's god however holds that man was born perfect but got corrupted by government. We wonder If all the jails built across their lands are only for members of government. Nature's god is truly Satan who set out to contradict the True God on every single line! So If you are an American you should worry about the subversive nature of the American founding documents, America's Nature's god, and the fate of your impious founding fathers who worked hard to mislead mankind away from the Gospel. Enough of that circular reasoning. Please worry not about Islam; it has been around for more than 1000 years. I am just wondering If America would be around that long...!!! Worry about the disastrous fate of America, that house built in the sand...!!! Through Mary, God...!!! More in: 1/The Making Of The Arabian Messiah(Christ), Sole Ruler Of Mankind Like Augustus Caeasar. 2/Christianity: Circumcised(Islam) Versus Filioism(Uncircumcised)...

[@rutrem09]

Not all men, just the Adamites, and later only the Israelites, Jacob and its descendents... All others are not made by Eli/or protected by Jehova

[@jussikankinen9409]

Evolution sound same, believers believe what wanna believe and suit their believing system

[@jussikankinen9409]

Celcus worship zeus didnt zeus made in roman believing

[@jussikankinen9409]

Aliens are same level than indians bible writers didnt know either

[@jussikankinen9409]

Many vegan jesus time