Center-pull Brakes? my thoughts...

[@WWB9mm]

My new lugged steel frame has centerpull posts and I'm using MAFAC RAID brakes from 1978, sourced from France via an eBay parts scrounger. As I get in more miles, and fast descents in the local Berkeley and Oakland hills, I become impressed and remain pleased that I made this decision on the frame. I'm working through brake pad brands, and will test the Kool Stop Salmon Eagle you mentioned.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Right on! I'm glad to hear you like them. It took me a little while to learn how to get them set up well, from choosing the brake levers, cable housing, and setting the pad alignment. It paid off. I'm amazed at how little I've had to maintain them and the great braking they offer. The salmon compound so far feels the best to me.

[@beemrdon52]

Any type of brakes with Koolstop salmon are winners.

[@justinslarks1456]

Honored to be mentioned - thank you for your insight! Makes good sense and it's never a crime to look good.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Thanks for the good questions, I hope I offered up some useful information. It's always good to get a few more opinions before you make your decision.

[@dirtbike9003]

As a kid I was obsessed with center pull brakes. Always loved the look....

[@danalbert5785]

Great video, great music. I agree with all your points on center-pull brakes. I used them exclusively in the 1970"s. For all the reasons you cited today, I use all types of brakes today except center-pull. I do believe the arms flex and allow the pad to rotate into the tire on extreme braking. I confess that they probably have improved over the last 40 years. Having braze-on mounts is a significant improvement but is a really expensive improvement. Really enjoy your videos.

[@sweetwaterLOGIC]

Found your channel and have been binge watching. Love your concepts, I've been applying them to our grocery getter bikes. Between our full suspension mountain bikes, gravel bikes and vintage Japanese nishiki and grand master grocery getter bikes, the vintage ones always wins. We hook up to our burley trailers and pack up the kids and dog, rondevous with grandpa down the street and we're off on another adventure. Grandpa has his pick between a vintage Raleigh road bike, a Vintage Sears bicycle, and his beloved schwinn world tourist. Love the videos and your insight on bikes. Also I agree on center pull, even pull is a stronger pull. Subbed.

[@felixjackson2670]

Great.Was one of my favorite tracks way back.... Loved my Mafac brakes too. Thanks for your great content.Miss Cools you are the best.

[@brianmaldonado3723]

Universal 61, Weinmann 999, Shimano Dura Ace, Jeay. Pleasant, informative, inspiring. Pleasure to know some peeps out there having fun. TY.

[@amboroverdecillo8101]

Another wonderful, beautiful video, and great bike ride. Your audience loves you :) Rim brakes forever! (and toe clips)

[@jakethiede]

Love it! Biggest difference i've noticed between my paul centerpulls and cantis is that cantilever brakes are better in mud and grime. since the centerpull brake sits over/close to the tire, it's much easier for mud and clay to build up. Cantilevers allow for most of the grime to escape and opening/cleaning them mid ride is much easier! Overall I do prefer my center-pulls because I'm used to them, they are easier to set up in my opinion, and stop me quicker on road surfaces. For wetter gravel or forrest dirt-slime I always go for my canti bike tho. :)

[@Merseysiderful]

Here in the U.K. in 1986 I bought a new Raleigh Granada touring bicycle which had Weinmann 610 centre pull brakes. They were very good and needed little adjustment to keep them centred. Very useful were the hinged plates on on the levers used to open the brakes to remove the wheels.

[@dablyputs]

I used mafac racers for a few years and they work great. I recently upgraded to Grand Bois centerpulls and they are significantly better. I went down the thought hole of upgrading the small parts on my mafacs, especially the washers, but it quickly becomes apparent that Grand Bois is pricing their brakes and brake parts so that just buying the whole brake is more economical, especially with shipping from Japan. If I were in Japan I would buy all of the small parts to upgrade my massive collection of mafac centerpulls but I definitely prefer the Grand Bois calipers. They are easier to set up, have a slightly more positive feel and are frankly just a perfected or significantly improved mafac design.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Great analysis! I think the Mafac's are good, but they were made at a time when mass production mattered. The caliper arms are a bit thinner and more flexible as a result of saving costs in production. They were. selling these by the tens of thousands. Grand Bois are in a different market altogether. They've taken the good of Mafac and improved them for their high-end bike customer. The same can be said for the Rene Here version. It's a much more robust design. The price of the RH is significantly more. However, given the scarcity of Mafac Raids, and the points you made, I would go with either of the two newer designs. The GB are a great overall value, but they do use a propriety straddle cable. It's not expensive to replace, but you have to have a source for it. I get mine at Jitensha Studio in Berkeley. Thank you!

[@MORTEF8]

The green frame seems to accomodate MAFAC Racer or 2000 from the apparent bazed-on pivots distance. MAFAC sets the 64mm distance for Racer, Competition or 2000 while 72mm for RAID. MAFAC performs best when the shoe faces contact parallel to rim side with the eye bolts positioned at the center of the adjustable base. Thanks to the MAFAC design, it can be achieved easily by two parameters, the angle of the shoe and the slide length of the shoe foot fixed on the eye bolt. These alignment talks louder than the kind of the shoe brand or type selections. WEINMANN brakes give narrow flexibilities and needs the frame builder knows WEINMANN designation before braze the pivots.

[@mariamartins367]

I have no interest in mafac brakes but that,s such a quality post,´thank you.

[@BluecollarBackcountry]

I like the brakes and especially the tunes 😀 Good stuff Henry

[@igniaulfsborg8946]

That stretch where you were filming no handed was like the opening of goodfellas...

[@johnwelch557]

Agreed. In fact all rim brakes work for me with cool stops. Great to see you guys on the roll! You need to make about 5-10 videos per day for us.... we go brain dead with a day or two drought! Don't worry about editing, you don't need to sleep! Thanks!

[@therealwogboy]

primo film like always mr Berry. thank you

[@the1andonly]

I have not tried those type of brakes. As you mentioned, it is important for the bosses to be in the right position. My preference for rim brakes are V-brakes and cantilever. With a loaded touring bike I'd prefer a disk brake, but have never had a bike with that set-up yet.

[@kevinjfeeney77]

Running center pulls on my 1976 KHS gran sport mixte...they actually came on the bike when I got it. Converted to 700x38 and they work fine.

[@davidbee9563]

I recently picked up a Gitane TdF with Mafac Racer centre pulls. I have disc brakes on my other bikes. It had the original Mafac levers I replaced with Grand Compe aero levers. They have Scott salmon cantilever pads. They are mounted with a single bolt on like side pull brakes. They work well so far, given they are 45yrs old. I will change the front hanger to a threaded one to adjust better. The hoods need to be replaced. I did change from bar end shifters to suntour down tube style. Still getting used to the feel of shifting them. Just a fun runabout with clearance for 30c with fenders or 32 without..

[@greghenderson6011]

Downtube shifters are the bomb! Great video production.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Thanks Greg!

[@ChrisinOSMS]

For high school post-graduation alcohol/drug free parties, [Project Graduation] a local radio stations let us run ads to drum up interest and we used Trucking in the background of the stoners trying to decide what to do graduation night, then Kool’n the Gang’s Celebrate fades-in over it with a group of bubbly kids inviting them to the party. Hilarious to make, and fun to hear yourself on the radio cruising to the beach. The 80’s were a good time to be a teen. I was always told I had a face for radio.

[@joeykraut6268]

Great video. I never liked the cable through the stem approach, especially on a quill. The stem hight adjustability is virtually lost, which voids a quill stems greatest feature.

[@Henrywildeberry]

That's a good point! Something I love about the quill is being able to change the stack height without any spacers.

[@phillipcowan1444]

Don't forget Dia Compe 610's and 750's. As for drilling the stem for pass thru brake cable I've done a couple of those over the years. You have to size the holes to minimum size. No more than about .010" over. The larger hole should only be deep enough so that the cable housing stands upright. For best function the hole has to be drilled parallel with the quill so that the cable follows the angle of the headtube. The holes distance from centerline of the quill needs to match the brakes distance from the centerline of the steerer. You could probably do this with a hand drill but I don't recommend it. It's hard to keep it straight and centered and also not wallow the hole. I cheated and did them in the Bridgeport at work. Any serious cyclist needs to cultivate at least one machinist friend for projects like this,lol. Both stems were high quality Nitto's. Don't know if I'd try this with an el cheapadero stem. One was on an old Raleigh Super Course that I rode like that for 20+ years and the current owner is still riding.

[@phillipcowan1444]

Nope. This was one of the Techniums from '90 if I remember. Pretty metallic blue color. Had some middle of the road Shimano stuff with Biopace rings,haha. LX I think. I gave it to my best friends son a few years back because I no longer trusted 20 year old bonded joints. The kid is still ridin' it on the mean streets of Chicago. He's about 70 lbs lighter than me so I guess he's not stressing it too bad. No probs. Out of the drilled stem.

[@ianpearson8976]

i have centre pull caliper on my road bike and ive almost spent no time maintaning them and they work perfectly.v brakes on mtb ive spent many hours messing around trying to get them to work efficiently.Replaced brake units,serviced springs,spent hours trying to make each side equal,bought flexible noodles,spacers on each side chopping and changing,different lengths of cable housing ,you name it.

[@mikemaxwell2591]

Mr. Wildberry that is one sweet looking bicycle, the leather on the bars and the color scheme is killer. Be well.

[@theprojectproject01]

I've found that if you set your pads very close to a clean and true rim, most braking problems go away.

[@bengt_axle]

I use those same Koolstop pads. If you lightly sand the brake track on the rim (ideally in a radial pattern to create more friction with the pads) it will remove the glaze and you'll get better braking. Before the days of disk brakes, mountain bikers used to do this all the time.

[@robertfarnsworth3706]

Hello, I'm putting NOS Mafac centre pulls on my 1965 Holdsworth Mistral restoration. They however, are slightly later in version as pad arms face in and need regular pad holders. The kool stop ones I purchased are too broad in the bolt to fit in the gap, so I search on. Good luck with all your cycling.

[@houseofpills]

I'm without brake braze-ons on my 650b conversion (it's an 80s Schwinn Prelude) but I use the classic Weinmann 750s and Kool Stops with great success. My local co-op couldn't give these things away! They toe-in super easy and work really smoothly after a complete overhaul. My cable stops have quick releases for easy wheel removal. All my other bikes use Mafac Racers with Eagle IIs which also stomp super well.

[@MonoLake02]

I’m an Eagle Claw guy and I also prefer the red ones. I have Paul cyclocross cantis in the front and the touring cantis in the rear. I have a basket rack in the front and I run a Carradice bag and rack in the back with no brake interference at either end. I do like the center pulls, but the frame builder advised against them due to the tire clearances that I was requesting. I think that the monster 50mm tires may turn out to be kind of trendy, but not here for good since they are not necessary if you are a skilled rider and they tend to be a little slower overall. I opted for them due to an issue with my lower back, so my bike is what is has to be so that I can keep riding. The supple life was kind inevitable...

[@Henrywildeberry]

The Eagle Claw brake pads are nice. I just ordered two more sets in the salmon compound because I was told they might be in short supply soon due to the pandemic. I wanted to stock up. If the wider tires feel sluggish give Rene Herse tires a try. They roll very fast on pavement.

[@davidburgess741]

I get it about tinkering. I put side pull Dia Comps from mid 70s onto a mid 80s bike. EU standard right lever operates front brake. The calipers are mirror image of US model if you look closely! All caliper standards approximately equal if quality and cable setup is right. Cantilever needs front fender for safety. Mostly style and marketing.

[@WheelersAtLarge]

Have to agree they look great 👍

[@jbirdperez6003]

The jam 🎸

[@55whiplash]

Does your low trail front end handle funny without a front bag? Nice vid as always!

[@Henrywildeberry]

Hi Mark. Without a front load it's more responsive than a medium trail bike, and that can be handy on a steep climb where keeping your balance requires more steering input, especially on loose gravel climbs. Wider tires at lower pressure on asphalt steer a little better with lower trail. However, low trail feels more susceptible to strong cross winds. With shallow rims I haven't been blown off the road yet, but I have felt the bike get pushed around more. Personally, I wouldn't mind a little higher trail, but the large fork rake provides a very plush ride and I have almost no toe-overlap even with the fenders.

[@Radnally]

We used to chuck the mafac center pulls that came with the Peugeot and Gitane bikes back the early 70s. But they were ok.

[@Freightlinerbob]

Great choice in music

[@InDaBurbs]

any experience with center mount center pulls? (opposed to direct mounts) I prefer the center pull over a side pull for a classic look but don't want to fork out the $ only to find out they're not worth it and when i have long reach calipers in the bin already. And BTW, how about some reviews on frames/bikes the average guy/gal can afford - say Soma, Surly, Rivendell etc? I mean I'd love to have a fitz or breadwinner or whatever but, you know, money. thanks and love the videos of spectacular Nor Cal.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Center mounted center pull brakes work great. Things to look for are good pads, I prefer Kool Stop, good cable housing, and nice stiff cable hanger and last but not least good brake levers. Not all brake levers have the same leverage/cable pull. More leverage will give you more braking power, but it will mean less cable pull. You'll want to true up your wheels and set the pads as close to the rims as possible without any rub. If you do all of that you should have excellent stopping power, good brake modulation, and good brake lever feel. Good luck!

[@nirajshr]

I have been having squeal problems with my Rene Herse centerpulls with salmon 4 dot pads. Been tweaking how the pad contacts the rim. Seems to have made the squeal slightly better in that it only squeals when braking hard. But, still not perfect. Will try changing cables and tweaking some more the get rid of the squeal. Apart from the new pads, would love to hear about any other tweaks that you made to your brakes to make them perform well. If I cant solve my squeal problem, might try the pads you suggested.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Have you set the toe-in on the pads to eliminate the squeal? I definitely like the Kool Stop Eagle Claw Pads. All the best!

[@nirajshr]

@@Henrywildeberry yup. I have set the toe in using the toe in washer supplied by Rene Herse. Redid the cable routing today but to no avail. Will try swapping the rear pada to the front to see if that changes anything. Rear ones don't squeal.

[@Henrywildeberry]

@@nirajshr Try giving your rims a deep cleaning. Use a brush and warm soapy water and scrub them down.

[@nirajshr]

@@Henrywildeberry That does not seem to help. I think it is mostly because of the pads. The 4 dot pads are quite wide, almost as big as the rim on the pacenti brevet wheels. So, has to be positioned spot on. I tried tweaking the pads and it seemed to make it worse. So it is definitely something to do with the way the pad makes contact with the rim. Will keep tweaking and if nothing works, will try the Eagle Claw pads! thank you

[@joeosunga9586]

What in the world ever became of sweet Jane?

[@mariamartins367]

10:09 I couldn’t guess whether it was the sky or the ocean

[@unbalancedcrank]

In fitting centre pulls with wide tyres, discovering bmx brakes was the turning point for t.

[@ryanwitt]

Just snagged a set of Mafac Raid's on eBay, can't wait to clean them up and try them!

[@simant5361]

I have Centre pull brakes on my 1967 Claud Butler, and they are better than any cantilever i have personally owned

[@tmayberry7559]

What type of modern brake lever work with them

[@ryanwitt]

@Henrywildeberry, what tail light are you running? Is that a Rene Herse or Velo Lumio?

[@nirajshr]

Btw, I noticed that your pad is positioned to the bottom(towards the ground) of the slot. With centerpulls, this has the least mechanical advantage. With 700c wheels, those same pads would need to be positioned at the top of the slot and that might give you even better braking power for the same hand pressure. Would be a nice experiment for your future video!

[@WWB9mm]

One wants the brake pad studs to be normal to the rim surface. There's no rider option to adjust rim radius nor centerpull brake arm reach, so the sole variable is - wait for it - brake stud position in the arms. Whatever gives studs normal to rims is the right position.

[@mistersmith158]

ah I think this video had some dude talking about brakes well done but thank god Ms Cool showed up - can't science find a way to clone Ms Cools the world be cooler and easier on my eyes all the time. 4 out of 5 Cools on the cools rating scale ride on sir ride on!

[@cosinus_square]

Have you compared centre-pulls to a modern dual pivot caliper, like a more recent DuraAce for example? Besides the visual appeal, was it power, modulation or tyre clearance that dictated the choice?

[@GrahamAtDesk]

The VO Grand Cru long reach side pulls will go over a 28mm tire with a 37mm VO mudguard, and they're stiff. I have some, but had to swap them for centre pulls when I switched to 35mm tyres and 45mm guards. The only reason I'd use side over centre pulls is if I couldn't fit wider tyres in the frame and didn't want to faff about with a cable hanger. Side pulls, with their quick release mechanisms, are also a little bit less hassle for getting wheels with inflated tyres in and out.

[@cosinus_square]

So the main factor is tyre clearance, not actual braking power. I'm more interested in these from a road perspective where tyres over 32mm ( I'm being generous here) are pointless performance wise. I'm pro disc brake for off road use like gravel, touring, single track etc. The roads are decend in the UK where I ride and 30mm Schwalbe ProOne on Velocity Quill rims are plenty plush. However, fitting mudgards with DuraAce 9100 calipers proves to be a bit of a challenge clearance wise (that's why I'm interested in comparing the two brake calipers) and I might just have to work with split mudguards.

[@cosinus_square]

@RolllinRat This channel is entertaining to watch and I do enjoy it very much, however, I have no interest venturing off tarmac at all, classic roadie if I were to label myself. I only ride kitted and shower at the end of the ride regardless, so I might just drop the mudguard thing all together, was only considering it because I do club runs sometimes and other people prefer not to get sprayed riding when wet. Oh well, will do dry runs only. Sorted. Mechanical DA 9100 is cheap. In my experience, if maintained, all modern components are just fine regardless of season or weather. When riding in bad weather just hose off and lube the drivetrain after every ride. Renew all cables/housings every spring. I've been doing it for years. This way I've found that I don't need to run/maintain a fleet of bikes which are used sometimes. Much more expensive than just maintaining 1 bike at all times, and the most important thing was that I get to ride my nice bike all the time. Had only one bike for around 7-8 years, a Moda Motif titanium, purchased brand new, this is the 2nd DA drivetrain on it, first one was a DA 9000. 2nd bike is a steel framed, late 90's Giant Peloton, running Force22, recent purchase, autumn 2019 for indoor trainer use. Ridden it outside as well and Meh, not a fan of Force and will prob get DA for it as well. Still debating it as it's a trainer bike. If I could afford custom builds, I would discard everything else. With 'good' cycling being as expensive as it is, I ride what I've paid for as much as I can. I'm not getting any younger (early 30's lol) and I'm not keeping them for anyone else, if my kids want to ride, they'll get modern bikes anyway. They're only bicycles at the end of the day, expensive, still, bicycles. The single / fixed gear crowd, I just don't understand, sorry, except for riding track.

[@ttiwehde]

Is that the central coast ?

[@odgreenoutdoors20]

What’s up with that mysterious banana, it was there then it was gone then it reappeared again lol

[@theprojectproject01]

"Retro-grouch energy bar"

[@beemrdon52]

Your companion's seat is too high...