Cessationism 8 (More Calvinist Than Calvin) | Daniel Kolenda: Off The Record

In Episode 8 of "The Heresy of Cessationism" we delve into the ongoing debate about cessationism, focusing on the "Rare Miracle Hypothesis." Daniel traces the development of cessationist doctrine, highlighting the contrast between modern interpretations and the beliefs of early church leaders like Justin Martyr and Augustine. These historical figures, known for their belief in spiritual gifts and miracles, offer a stark contrast to today's cessationist views. The episode also reexamines the positions of Reformation figures such as Luther and Calvin, revealing a more open stance towards spiritual gifts than often assumed. This insightful exploration challenges listeners to rethink the cessation of spiritual gifts and miracles, setting the stage for deeper exploration in the series.
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To view the other parts of this series about "The Heresy of Cessationism" visit:
Cessationism 1 (The Scriptures)
• Cessationism 2 (A Casc...
Cessationism 2 (A Cascade of Lies)
• Cessationism 2 (A Casc...
Cessationism 3 (Has Prophecy Ceased?)
• Cessationism 3 (Has Pr...
Cessationism 4 (Have Tongues Ceased?)
• Cessationism 4 (Have T...
Cessationism 5 (Gifts of Healings)
• Cessationism 5 (Gifts ...
Cessationism 6 (Evidence of Modern Miracles)
• Cessationism 6 (Eviden...
The Heresy of Cessationism 7 (Miracle Workers)
• Cessationism 7 (Miracl...
Cessationism 8 (More Calvinist Than Calvin)
• Cessationism 8 (More C...
Cessationism 9 (The Pagan Origins)
• Cessationism 9 (The Pa...
Cessationism 10 (The Godfather of Cessationism)
• Cessationism 10 (The G...
Cessationism 11 (Miracles in the Middle Ages)
• Cessationism 11 (Mirac...
Cessationism 12 (Awakening & Revival)
• Cessationism 12 (Awake...
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#danielkolenda #cessationist #offtherecord
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[@richardhayward5814]

It is so good to hear a charismatic arguing logically and academically, basing what he says on thorough research of the available literature, and not just on experiences - vital though they are. I'm really looking forward to the next podcast. Sincere thanks Daniel!

[@drdennisramdinmawia1508]

actually tho i respect the scholars, i have zero regard for their arguments, if they are againts the word of God,,

[@olufunkeoluwatoba9322]

Yes , Pastor Daniel is a pride and blessings to the Pentecostal/ Charismatic circle. They do accuse us as largely not academic, research , theologically inclined.I can see a Spirit filled and sound mind approach in these presentations. God bless you Pastor Daniel. I was at your last open air Crusade in Ibadan, Nigeria

[@JimAndBess1]

Even the least scholarly charismatic base their theology on the Bible. The position that Charismatics developed our beliefs from experience is a false argument. We see what the scripture says and that it says to be doers and not just hearers, so experience followed. Then, the antibiblical cessationists used the experience following the believing to falsely claim that because we experience God that we founded our beliefs on the experience. It's a lie, but so is cessation, so why not.

[@debbiebroughton7701]

You are so appreciated Daniel. It is obvious you have spent much time and prayer doing your homework. And your teaching is so easy to understand. Don’t let anyone discourage you with foolish comments. God bless

[@chrisnewberry6691]

3 minutes in and he got me! Thank you Daniel for aknowledging this fact of cessationism. And thank you for not throwing the Catholics under the bus.

[@thefamousworld2933]

Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah.... thank qqqqqqqqqq brother Daniel

[@arkansasboy45]

"Dry, pristine orthodoxy". You summed up cessationism in 3 words. Well done.

[@panulaunonen1303]

In many things extremes are bad. Cessationism as well as overshooting charismatic teachers are both bad things. I have witnessed God's miracles in my life and other people's life: words of knowledge that came true, healings and even deliverance from demons. So I was initially surprised that there is a doctrine called cessationism. Thanks for these series!

[@vsaharc]

Awesome stuff! Thank you, evangelist!

[@panulaunonen1303]

I think Grace to You and other Reformed / Baptist congregations are rich in their teaching and I have received a lot from them. The only thing is the gifts of the Spirit - that is what they have got wrong. But I really love and like Reformed / Baptist Christians. I am myself a Pentecostal Christian.

[@loganbaumstark8950]

100% agree. I’m what I call a “Reformed Bapticostal” 😂

[@monica5379]

Daniel , thanks for your videos

[@ryandawson2877]

As a Pentecostal, this is super informative. About 32 minutes in, I’m surprised that Thomas Aquinas believe that the gifts had ceased, because I have also heard that he experienced miracles but I could be wrong.

[@ericedwards8902]

I have really enjoyed this content standing against the doctrine of cessationism. This has been a sharp rebuke when needed and an opportunity to teach; you have done a masterful job of knowing which approach to take and when. God bless, brother!

[@dianebergsma7898]

Great job! Like the shirt!

[@doughanson3140]

Awesome..love it

[@aaron11217]

Thanks for the great work Daniel, can you please link to the quotes from the Church Fathers?

[@kentberdahl9895]

As a charismatic Calvinist, I appreciate your polemic against the foolishness of cessationism.

[@loganbaumstark8950]

Amen brother! I love MacArthur and Ligonier guys but they are not infallible lol. All it took was a few experiences for me to question it🙏🏻

[@thomasdevassy1149]

Thank you for the brilliant work. Could you please do a video on women in ministry?

[@austindeborn1111]

Daniel, thank you for making these videos. SO often, I find that we Charismatics cannot even have a conversation about things like this without getting upset. I watch this not only for the content, but how you present it! I’ve learned a lot from you and Michael Brown. Keep up the good work, sir!

[@Life-A-Bowl-of-Cherries]

Amen . Miracles are real & so is Jesus. He himself is a miracle because i would surley burn if not for him.❤

[@rogercoleman8515]

For those that know God by His Spirit and all the works/fruits of this relationship, cessationism is a mute point. All the reasoning debating or even evidence that God demonstrates of Himself in and through His children has no effect without the Father revealing Himself to them. Doesn't mean we should stop presenting the truth and reason for our hope in the Gospel, but it does give us a healthy understanding of our expectations and results of such efforts.

[@ryanfishburn4800]

So good

[@jcfrazier5853]

Liked and Shared ✅

[@JosiahMuncy]

Love this series 🔥

[@just_bee9482]

By obedience to God I sat in reformed churches for 5 years until I couldn't take it anymore. Cessationism is a logical result of a christian who refuses to fast and pray. In all those reformed cessationist churches, one can hide in the prayer room for months and nobody wouldn't notice. Miracles come when a christian gives him/her self to prayer and fasting. I personally see miracles on a regular basis

[@bloodboughtbigphilr8266]

These videos are an outstanding riposte argued from Scripture, sound reason and church history against cessationist premises. Cessationism amounts to a classic case of eisogesis rather than objective Biblical exegesis. Probably the best I've encountered and up there with Dr Martyn Lloyd Jones and Chuck Smith.

[@DanielKolenda]

Thank you for the encouragement 🙏

[@nangephriam1211]

I'm Reformed in belief but I don't agree with their Cessationism doctrine. God still do miracles today.

[@Every_Joint_Supplies]

Brother! Good stuff! Maybe we’ll make that documentary some day 👊🏼#crossingoverfilms

[@user-vh2us7xm8q]

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the same yesterday today and forever more

[@JimiSurvivor]

I became aware of the "charismatic" beliefs and practices of the Church Fathers when my father joined the Orthodox Church and I began to do work for them. I used to talk about the gifts of the Spirit with his priest and even the Archbishop. I found the Orthodox were utterly devoid of some Dispensational expiration date that that defined an END to the Charismatic gifts. Unlike the Reformers, and the free grace evangelicals the Orthodox believed in the ongoing manifestation of the Spirit as well as personal holiness. I did not agree with many of their beliefs but in many matters such as Baptism Lutherans and Reformed deviated from the scriptures.

[@jarednel]

Excellent stuff! I think this is one of the best videos that Daniel has done in this series so far for me. Love it! 💯👑💛💪 I'll also add that it's extremely refreshing to see someone in Daniels position being so well researched and academic in his theology. Powerful! 🔥🎯🏆

[@CaseyCovenant]

Can you share an online document with us with these quotes so we can save them and share them with others?

[@JimiSurvivor]

Augustine did indeed write about miracles....and he can be considered the "Father of the Reformation." Of those groups which comprise "The Strange fire Conference" most, if not all were founded upon the teaching of Augustine

[@ericgatera7149]

Thank you for the video. I guess for Cessationists who think the Church fathers were cessationists, I would also recommend the scholarly monograph, *"Christian Initiation and Baptism in the Holy Spirit Evidence from the First Eight Centuries"* by Mcdonnell Kilian & Montague George. May I though make a point or two of correction or clarification to what was said in the video: 1) *It's not entirely accurate to say Emperor Constantine made the church a state-sponsored religion.* One of Constantine's most significant actions was the issuance of the Edict of Milan in 313 AD. This edict proclaimed religious tolerance throughout the Roman Empire, effectively ending the persecution of Christians. It allowed Christianity to be practiced openly and granted Christians the freedom to worship according to their beliefs, a bit like the situation Christianity find itself in the Western world nowadays. *It was Emperor Theodosius I (reigned 379-395 AD) who took the decisive step of making Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire.* The Edict of Thessalonica in 380 AD declared Nicene Christianity the sole authorized version of the Christian faith in the Roman Empire. 2) The Montanists may have started well and in Orthodoxy but the Church resistance to them was not because of the Charism displayed among them, since the Church at large also expressed Charismatic gifting as you correctly pointed out, but it seems that it was due to their prophetic styles (uncontrollable trances) and its apocalyptic content of the return of Christ in Asia Minor, precisely at Pepuza, in addition to other oddities that made them personae non gratae within the Church: _"Priscilla went to sleep, she said, at Pepuza, and Christ came to her and slept by her side _*_'in the form of a woman, clad in a bright garment, and put wisdom into me, and revealed to me that this place is holy, and that here Jerusalem above comes down.'_*_ (Epiphanius, "Hær.", xlviii, 11)."_ - Encyclopedia link: www.newadvent.org/cathen/10521a.htm

[@DanielKolenda]

Great points. Thank you 🙏

[@trunion1782]

👍👍👍

[@romans828.]

Augustine made it very clear he was a cessationist. Until he was near death and he flipflopped.

[@Travis_Rosenthal]

Quick question Daniel: What books have you read that have most impacted your life?

[@miriambartley6622]

Jesus is coming back for a church without blemish or wrinkle. It's no coincidence this tension between doctrines is beng exposed.

[@emmamfisumukiza906]

Do u mind adding sub titles pls

[@kuldeepsingh7154]

Sir, why are you not coming on god hindi tv, I have learned a lot from your old videos.

[@bibusamalipenga9210]

I just came across this vid and i find it edifying. Im not sure if you have commented on 1 Corinthians 13 vs 8

[@DanielKolenda]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6qvgpSLf9qVi5Im03s

[@user-vh2us7xm8q]

Most High God, if you can hear me Please show me you can hear me and please show me if you sent your son Jesus Christ of Nazareth to die on the cross for my sin Because I don't want to burn in the lake of fire Because I listened to the man and the world When i could have just asked you

[@ShowCat1]

Recently, I told a Calvinist of a miracle where a mentally ill man had broken his foot. His foot was twice the size, black and blue, and he was in such pain he was weeping uncontrollably. I was on the phone with him and told him to speak to his foot and command it to be healed in the name of Jesus. He did and instantly his foot went to normal size, turned pink again and the pain was completely gone. His mother (my cousin) got on the phone and was almost hysterical. She told me what she saw and was praising God. Upon hearing this, the Calvinist said, "Well Satan appears as an angel of light." In other words, he was saying that Satan healed the man to deceive me and the man who got healed. He also told me that Satan can only do what God wants him to do. So basically, the Calvinist was saying that God sends Satan to deceive Christians. Our God is NOT the great deceiver! I think Cessationist are lazy Christians who are too proud to be used of God for fear of what others will think of them. Oh, BTW, The Calvinist I speak of came to the Lord 34 years ago when one night the Holy Spirit moved on me to pray for him. I went into intense prayer and intercession when the Spirit showed me that the man was going to commit suicide. Then the Spirit told me that the man was on the way to my house. Within minutes he was knocking on my door. When he entered, he did not tell me of his plans. I told him what the Spirit had revealed to me, and he began to weep. He was so moved that he gave his life to Christ then and there. He told me that he had no intention of telling me his plans to take his own life. It has been so sad to see him get deceived by Calvinism, but I still pray for him. When I bring up the night, he got saved he doesn't respond to the gifts of the Spirit operating in me to bring him to Jesus. I am praying he gets set free from this deception.

[@DanielKolenda]

Amazing! May the Lord continue to use you in his life 🙏

[@kuldeepsingh7154]

Missing God Hindi TV very much

[@ingridsch.-kl3ql]

Gott segne dich, und deine Liebe Familie ❤ Alles liebe aus Ingolstadt.❤

[@kuldeepsingh7154]

Plz reply 🙏

[@monica5379]

St Ambrose raised the dead in Italy

[@romans828.]

I dont argue with anyone about miracles, signs and wonders. Or anything concerning scripture. I present the gospel and then the H.S. does his part. I tell people who want to argue that they can argue with God at the White Throne Judgment. I'm the messenger, not God. I dust off my sandles and move on.

[@andypanda8259]

Guess we’ll all know when Jesus returns on who was approved and who was not. For me I’m far from charismatic and yet the gifts of the Spirit are still present in many ways. I believe this by faith. All the other stuff flopping around on the floor and speaking gibberish, I stay clear from because it feels demonic.

[@TilleyDuthie]

What the early church fathers believed is irrelevant. What is contained within scripture is relevant. Even if every early church father endorsed ecstatic speech, this does not make it true. When a strict hermeneutical approach and contextual analysis of the Bible is performed, it is overwhelmingly crystal clear that tongues are human spoken languages. Early Pentecostal leaders understood that biblical tongues were real earthly languages. They even thought they would be able to go to foreign mission fields and witness through miraculous tongues without having to learn the languages. Eventually the “heavenly language” and “private prayer language” doctrine was developed. Sadly modern day pentecostals are "speaking into the air" (1 Corinthians 14:9) and babbling using syllables with vain repetition (Matthew 6:7). Only the Lord can open their eyes to this false manifestation.

[@DanielKolenda]

It’s relevant to the question of weather or not they were cessationist

[@TilleyDuthie]

@@DanielKolenda Fair enough sir. Thank you for your response.

[@namelesswreck6383]

I do not trust charismatic teachers, I'm not a cessationist or calvinist but at least they have better fruits, people can say all they want but at the end of the day it comes to fruits, the leaders of the charismatic movement right now are filled with scandals and the Lord always takes the bad rap 🤷‍♀️.

[@LuisJ967]

There are many cases of cessationist teachers involved in scandals, one of the most recent andfamous was John Macarthur with Eileen Gray. Apart from the scandals of pastors who commited adultery or raping women ( like Ravi Zacharias) or pastors comdemned because of child sexual abuse. Therefore, the good or bad fruits of a teacher has nothing to do if they are charismatic or cessationist.

[@alexl5660]

The reformed church is the body of Christ. Not the heretical blasphemous Roman Catholic catechism

[@judymoore5009]

I agree with your assessment of the Catholic Church, but I believe Daniel’s point here is that the Catholics did not deny the existence of the gifts of the Holy Spirit though others did.

[@aaron11217]

Thanks for the great work Daniel, can you please link to the quotes from the Church Fathers?