Christian Music and Christianity Need Revival, with John Cooper

John Cooper joins me for another “mashup” episode going out to both our platforms this week! In this episode, we talk about the state of Contemporary Christian music, and how we got to a place in history in which industry insiders are promoting and defending anti-Christian values among their artists. We cover everything from recent events such as a drag queen topping the iTunes Christian charts to recent deconstruction stories to who owns the Christian record labels. We end with some encouragement and a hopeful call to the church to return to the fear of God and holiness.
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[@MikeMicable]

I'm part of a Billboard recording group (Gospel centered). I have a lot to say about the state of CCM as a whole. Gone are the days of hearts like Keith Green. I honestly believe many artists use the Christian market as a platform to make a name for themselves. Then when they blow up, we're all shocked when they renounce their faith or align themselves with things that are blatantly unbiblical. I need to do a Podcast about this issue.

[@pixelfan2261]

"Bible Rap" is a thing because "Christian Rap" is watered down most times! "Bryson Gray - Message To CHH" (Christian Hip-Hop)

[@tvtreasurechest6155]

Katy Perry...started as Katy Hudson and opened for Newsboys or Phil Joel or one of those. Most people don't remember Hudson but EVERYONE knows Perry. It's been happening for a while.

[@patriottex4813]

I miss the clarity of Keith Green and his message. I like bands and artists like Glad, Steve Green, Steve Camp, who have never compromised and have stayed strong for the Lord.

[@MarkVanOuse]

Grateful for you guys taking a stance in defense of The Lord and The Bible. I was in Christian radio for 38 years, starting in 1983, 17 years as a Station Manager of a regional network in PA. I saw a LOT of changes in the "Christian music industry" over that time period. Christian radio back in the early 80's was largely locally owned and operated (as opposed to today, owned by a few conglomerates). So there was a lot of diversity. However, the majority of stations were committed to clear, biblical preaching and teaching. As a result, MANY people in mainline and compromising churches heard the Gospel and were saved. Many. Then there was a wave of Christian psychology/self-help type shows crowding out Bible preaching and teaching. No surprise we drifted from our biblical mandate. Today Christian radio is of the "positive/encouraging" model where there is virtually no Bible preaching and teaching and all music, most of which is Christian-centered, not Christ-centered. I remember in the 1990's seeing the whole "wave" of Christian labels selling to secular recording conglomerates. First with Word, then Sparrow and others. In the debate about the merits of this, people like me who raised the concern that you cannot be unequally yoked were chided as being "Christian ghetto minded" and not outreach minded. Yeah, right! When Christian radio had solid, Christ-centered music and sound biblical teaching we exploded in growth, not just numerically, but we received huge amounts of letters from listeners testifying about being born again, growing in the Lord, marriages healed, the backslidden coming back to Christ. Those days of the "change" in Christian radio and music was NOT for the better. Today you have many Christians who have zero understanding of their Bibles and it is NO surprise that we are seeing such apostasy in our day. Alisa and John, keep standing for the truth! MANY are starving for true, God-fearing, Christ-centered BIBLE truth! Press on!

[@kevinmilner9066]

Thank you for sharing this fantastic reply.

[@cre8509]

Sparrow ❤😢

[@iw9338]

I don't listen to Christian radio very much. You are exactly right 👍

[@valeriehancock1724]

You are so right!

[@akasutton]

Yet by God’s grace, still people are reached.

[@NTon13]

I've attended churches with house bands, I've attended churches who played top 40 CCM music most of the time. I've attended churches with the lights and the smoke machines. Heck, I've run the lights and the smoke machines before. I'll say this: our current acapella church is a breath of fresh air. I don't think it's more scriptural or whatever. It's just easier to engage with and more reverent, a reverence I think is missing in many churches.

[@MomLAU]

An a capella church? I'm a church musician, but I think I'd like that, too.

[@davidhiramreyes6490]

If you don’t mind me asking, what makes acapella more reverent?

[@jacquelineandrea8172]

When i was young, I remember being able to hear the congregation sing, all voices together. I always loved it when the music would cut for a stanza and all you heard was the congregation, so powerful. The worship team should lead, not overtake the voices in the congregation. That's my opinion looking back over my 58 years of church life. God bless.

[@Teal_Seal]

Yes!! Me too! I loved it when the music would cut and you just heard the voices ❤

[@wishhalkar509]

So nice to hear someone else say it. My church plays so loud that I cannot hear myself sing. Exactly what you wrotenis exactly what I think about. Blessings

[@stuksy4321]

yeah, kinda agree, the band is so good, often find myself feeling like I'm a concert. But don't want them to hold back either. There must be a way where they can do what they do but play softly at times to let the church's voices come together as one, like Teal_Seal said. I'd go hear them play on a Friday or Saturday where they can just jam and be the awesome musicians they are. Music is subjective so there'll always be a bunch of opinions on that.

[@EricCampbellflight836]

Hi John and Alisa, thank you for this pod cast today. I am a Pastor down here in Oklahoma and I can tell you for sure that the pressure to compromise God’s word is overwhelming on Pastors and Christian artists. I pray that God would continue to give all of us the grace to stand strong for Him. He is so worth it!

[@jamesruark9335]

My oldest daughter was saved at a Zoe Girl concert in 2003 or so. The change in her life was visible and tangible, and she has remained faithful to the One who is faithful to her. May we have more musicians who have that kind of anointing of the Holy Spirit to bring the gospel in its full force to concertgoers.

[@-art3544]

I'm tired of weak or wishy-washy Christians - Glad to see some strong believers taking a stand! ✝

[@laurenkuo2333]

Why do we need a worship team? I grew up singing from a hymnal with the rest of the congregation. We all sang together, learned how to read music, and sing beautiful harmony because we could hear each other. And we remembered the hymns - they were planted in our hearts.

[@landedeagle69]

YES!

[@Soul2SoulRadio]

I had the great privilege and pleasure of interviewing you both as the host of Soul2Soul. For 25 years Chris Coppernoll and I worked to bring the artists closer to the listeners via our one-hour syndicated program that at its peak aired primarily on 781 Christian radio stations across the USA and in 44 other nations around the world. Over that 25 year span we interviewed more than 1500 Christian artists from every genre and style. At the end of 2019 we brought the show to an end. There were several reasons that we felt it was time to "sign off", but the number one reason was a growing concern about the spiritual depth - or lack thereof - of the artists we were interviewing, which became more and more obvious. The final straw for me was the commoditization of worship. I could no longer stomach the fact that we have taken our expression of worship of God and turned it into a genre of music complete with charts and artists who were competing to get to #1. I finally reached a point where I could no longer participate in an enterprise that seemed compromised. Of course, there are great artists who are committed to honoring Christ, just as there are many people of the same heart in the industry at large. Thank you both for having the courage to speak out on this critical issue. This is a conversation that we MUST have. Now, as a full-time pastor, my heart grieves for the young people in my church who are struggling with their sexuality and identity and are being made even more confused by the public statements and the inconsistent witness of many "Christian" artists. I never thought I would get to the day were I now actively encourage people to AVOID Christian music, as I have lost confidence that it is a "safe place" for those who lack spiritual maturity. After spending more than 36 years of my life in Christian radio and the Christian music industry, I am deeply saddened by the current state of affairs. One thing I have concluded: the Christian music slide toward apostasy is but a reflection of what is also happening in the church. What is needed is an awakening of the Bride of Christ and bold, biblical leadership starting in every pulpit large and small. Until there is a heart-change in the Church, there will be nothing but growing decay in the Christian culture of which Christian music is but a part. -Mike Becht

[@Bigfoottehchipmunk]

Thank you for sharing your perspective, brother.

[@kathleenking47]

However, there were ALWAYS gospel charts. Even in the 50s & 60s It wasn't called CHRISTIAN, but GOSPEL

[@luhustitches]

I’m 58. Grew up in the church. As regards music in the church: once upon a time the pianist and organist (yes I grew up in a church with an organ) were call accompanist. The choir director helped lead the congregation in song. The choir(many people, some who were amazing singers, some who were not) sang a special song for the congregation to listen to and contemplate. I love a good band, have been on worship teams, lead small groups in song with my guitar…but the sweetness of simple music with good theology that focuses on the Lord is my favorite.

[@rainmanbk1]

Oh man you two! I’m not even all the way through but I have to comment. John I love you, you are so right about the holiness. We as Christians today are so in need of seeking that. That’s where our light comes from!! And then Alisa you came back with how the worship music is all about me and I. It’s SO TRUE. I think about it all the time. I want to worship God for who HE IS. Why is all the music is about me and myself. Totally opposite and trending away from holiness. You guys are killing it! Praise God for this collaboration.

[@scripturesnapshot_withtahlitha]

Wonderful episode, thank you both. "Pray for the Christian artist you listen to. Pray for those who have deconstructed. When I go out for a walk I pray for people that I criticize. I do. I pray for them by name because I want my heart to stay soft toward these people but also I want to go to war against the ideas that are trying to ensnare people and take their faith away and lead them away from Christ." -Alisa Childers Amen.

[@obedcephas9845]

I clicked the bell on both of your pages. I am a church planter in Jamaica leading a small church. In an epoch of deconstructionim, syncretism and blurred lines, I find your discussion refreshing. One of the entry points for bad theology into a church is through its "worship ministry" . I believe the pastor/elder board who is serious about his role of guarding doctrine will take oversight of his worship pastor/leader seriously. May we never loose our awe of God to cultural relevance and may our embrace of creative freedom never compromise his word. Keep on.

[@reticentzealot8210]

SOOO needed to hear this! I stopped listening to Christian radio for the last few years because I felt the songs being put out now are filled with “me, me, me, and what God can do for me”. What happened to singing the words straight from the Bible or lyrics focused on God’s character and goodness? Now I only listen to specific artists. Thank you both for what you do. I listen to your podcasts and am grateful for your ministries. They have made a difference for the advancement of His Glory!!❤

[@GarrettFemister]

If you’re not familiar with Shane & Shane, they sing straight from the scriptures.

[@impalaman9707]

Keith Green is doing summersaults in his grave over the lack of integrity in the Christian Music industry these days. God took him home to be with Himself at just the right time. The moneychangers have taken over the temple

[@aztec0112]

Most of contemporary Christianity is devoid of even the remotest shred of integrity.

[@impalaman9707]

@@aztec0112 Biblical AND Artistic Integrity!

[@shelleyvanover]

I’ve been getting more discouraged lately with the worship in my church. The lights, the fog, the music that repeats the same lyrics over and over. I’m learning more about this NAR influence. Sometimes during worship I just close my eyes and pray and worship in my own words. Thank you for these conversations.

[@kathleenking47]

Sometimes the churches which sing out of hymnals are the strongest However, I believe there's a place for the other stuff, but not on Sunday morning

[@immasista6537]

I'd find anutha church!

[@MarkTBoyerNC]

Worship is more than just music. It is us recognizing who God is and living accordingly. This happens in every area of our lives. The type of music doesn’t matter so long as it reflects the reality of who God is. Love you guys for speaking in this.

[@kathleenking47]

True, but the psalms, are like a huge hymnal..in middle of bible

[@cubbie8330]

This was a phenomenal conversation ! Alisa and John, y'all are such great voices in the church !

[@elmerfudd1883]

Ephesians 5:11 Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

[@lizbowers5236]

Loved this. We’re currently searching for a new church and visited one that had a very simple worship service. There was one worship leader singing and playing piano but mainly congregation led. It wasn’t what we’re used to but it was genuine. My description was “sweet”, “pure”, and “doctrinally sound “.

[@vesselofJesusChrist]

Cooper talked about a 23-year old worshipleader and the matter of a good message about the biblical values according to sexuality. When I grew up I listened a lot Rebecca st James. She was 19 years old when she boldly brought a biblical message about sexuality and continued telling this message for 10+ years. She was such a great example! She married a virgin when she was 33 years old. So when God is behind it, it will be blessed. And it was though for her cause all kind of young people asked her difficult questions. God gave her the wisdom and the courage to answer difficult questions and standing firm.

[@mikehicks9488]

I attended a Christmas Eve service where my wife attends church. The obligatory guy with the beard and guitar asked everyone to stand and sing, then the praise team sang at the congregation for 20 minutes. The congregation only sang along with the Christmas carols, yet they were asked to stand - I assume to reinforce the practice of obeying the church and to keep the kids off their phones. The music was very basic - five or six word phrase repeated what seemed to be dozens of times - probably whatever Hillsong had tested to ensure the greatest emotional response. I've not attended regularly since the Covid break, as our church adopted the "Bro Church" approach - discontinuing all choir programs, turning out all the lights during the services and not allowing anyone over 40 on the stage. I've watched live streams of several churches, taking advantage of technology to "attend" multiple churches rather than just one. Shopping around for a church with Biblical preaching (and without a 25-year-old in torn jeans acting like she's on a pogo stick while singing the two chord mantras), we found ourselves listening to a pastor who was insistent Earth is 6000 years old and was created in six calendar days. We seem to be migrating to the extremes. It's not just the music portion of church that has gone astray. The cash flow consultants have convinced the churches that services that include nice music and lessons from educated, respectful pastors who prefer to dress a bit above the jeans and vest ensemble are obsolete.

[@johoggmusic]

Thanks so much to both of you for this conversation. Your honesty and integrity is so refreshing. As a former member of a Christian band , I can relate to a lot of what you shared of your previous involvement with CCM. I’m so happy to be free and in biblical truth and it’s been a much more creative environment for me as a musician/composer/songwriter. When it comes to corporate gathering of believers , the entire experience is supposed to be all about giving honour and praise to our glorious , Holy, omnipotent, omnipresent Saviour and Lord , Jesus , the Word who became flesh , to fulfil the scriptures. And the singing is just meant to be a part , not the main attraction. I was part of a big church with great music which I enjoyed , but it wasn’t followed by faithful biblical teaching and very rarely included the sacrament of communion. I was convicted and had to leave. Now , corporate worship is with a small congregation led by a faithful, trained minister who teaches us the instructions of Jesus. We sing 3 hymns that lyrically tie in with the scripture teaching , and the 30 or so people gathered make a strong enthusiastic sound with just the accompaniment of a piano or organ and a few strong singers scattered through the congregation. We stand and read scripture together , we confess our sin together , we pray together , led by the minister. We frequently share the bread and wine of communion. It’s all worship. We are reminded every time of the glorious truth of the gospel. I’m way more emotional in this environment than I ever was in the former. I leave refreshed , happy and encouraged and challenged to live out my faith and glorify the Lord Jesus. I’m older now , I’ll admit , but it’s nothing to do with my age. What once attracted me started to distract me from focusing on why I was there , and became such a subjective experience that my thinking was totally disengaged, and the emotions I felt during the powerful music had faded by the time I was leaving. I’m not making that judgment on anyone else , just being honest about myself. I’m praying for you guys in the ministries that you have. You’re a blessing to us and an inspiration and encouragement to us to be faithful to God’s word to us. Thankyou 💕🙏

[@mpmikeb1290]

I love hearing you John and Alisa standing up for Christ! We need more Christians who have such a big platform.

[@mpmikeb1290]

God bless you! We need more Christian artists who will stand up for the gospel of Jesus Christ. No Compromise. Alisa you look marvelous!

[@XDominiqueXFranconX]

I like what Alisa said about worship being performed by people of all ages (and how some churches have only young performers). To add to that, I have been to churches where older people in the congregation couldn’t easily follow along with the music. I think the music should be easier to follow for our elders. That doesn’t mean sleepy and boring (my grandparents were very into the Gaithers, and it put me to sleep); just accessible for a wider range of people. 😊

[@AFJDP]

Danzil Monk Sr. here. THANK YOU SOOO MUCH for this report, Alisa. I so appreciate your reporting and guest. Truth is, that the Church has ascribed "Christian" to far too many who have actually never been born again. And that is becoming more and more evident by social media and the culture wars. Additionally, there are far too many true Christians who have been poorly taught and who are guilty of failing to study God's word for themselves, and they are easily influenced and deceived.

[@heatherroberson5170]

You’ve been a big part of my “waking up” the past several months. So thankful for your ministry!

[@TheRevFireman630]

As soon as I listened to John talk about "The Rot in Christian Music" last week, I immediately remember listening to John and Alisa talking about being on tours with other Christian artists, and their double sided behavior when not on stage. I thought the two of you should get together and talk about this issue again, as a followup to that mashup from a few years ago. Thank you for coming together again.

[@StacyHartChristianMusic]

I haven’t listened to “Christian” music in years after I talked to my pastor about his sermons against Hillsong. Then I started looking into the NAR and hypercharismania and couldn’t believe what I found. So many artists were either full blown NAR or strongly associated with. I’ve been a songwriter and sax player for years and my songs are either directly from Scripture or very close.😊

[@hannahkroon5233]

Then went out from us, because they were never of us!

[@user-og2wt3le4j]

One Christian artist told me she thinks today's CCM scene is more about how many followers you have on Instagram and other social media than the music itself. The industry is also about the package including how good the band/artist looks.

[@cynthiajrawson4004]

I'm so glad I watched your show. I agree 100%. It's one thing to pray and share the gospel with others but it's a whole other issue to be unequally yoked with other believers. It is possible to love others and still stand up for biblical values. I think the big reason CCM is going in the direction it is is because we are witnessing the beginning of the great apostasy. Now is the time Christians need to stand up for God's truth and love others enough to be bold in God's truth. Accepting sin is not love it is sending others to hell.

[@jamiedlmcdonald]

Petra, Whiteheart, Stryper, John Elefante, euro groups like Narnia… heavier playing groups (many of whom are still performing to this day) with rock solid, Bible-saturated, God-glorifying lyrics. Bands from the 80s and 90s that were of great encouragement to me and who strengthened my walk with Christ. So thankful for these and many other CCM artists from those eras, who have continued to stand strong for the Lord without compromise. May He raise up many more like them and Alisa and John.

[@spatzfam2001]

Keith Green and Don Francisco are still 2 of my all time favorites. Still listen to them at least weekly. Modern Christian music, if you want to call it that, is trash.

[@rosemaryrojahn584]

We have lost the focus of true worship which is the Lord Jesus Christ. Thank you so much Alisa.

[@user-gg2vl5yh3i]

Thank you! 🙏🙌 As someone who grew up with Christian music my heart has been breaking seeing the compromise that has come to this genre. Zoe girl was a huge influence in my life as a young teen and skillet I’ve been a fan since alien youth- and I still look up to skillet today as a 35 year old. I thought I was the only one who was upset about what I see happening to Christian music today as a lot of people don’t seem to care and are not bothered enough. Thank you for speaking out about this and giving a powerful message of what freedom truly is and the importance of getting back to holiness. ❤

[@ericbaylor4039]

This discussion leads me to what the "apostate church" will be like. "holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power (which is Jesus Christ). Avoid such people.

[@robertpurser4587]

Please do not be discouraged, You have aged beautifully! Not just physically but spiritually and intellectually! You are much-loved keep up the great work. Pappy 😊

[@testallthings2721]

Aww, I think Alisa has aged very well.

[@sovereigngodlisaloves9525]

She's more beautiful now actually.

[@NoName-cv9pi]

I am 64 so I was a young teenager when CCM came into my the church. I loved it because after getting saved at 19 it gave me the same feeling as secular rock. I had a check in my spirit but rationalized it because it "appeared " like they were growing... they weren't and neither did I....I started finding more interest in reading books but not the Bible. 25 yrs later I finally purged all CCM/worship music from my home. It felt like someone put brighter light bulbs in our home... The Word returned to being my greatest delight... it seemed like a hard shell had been removed from Scripture...It all stunts our growth and destroys many.

[@ladysongster]

Thank you for this! I was listening to the "Christian Workout Music" channel on Pandora, and was shocked to realize that almost none of the songs even mentioned God or Jesus. Much of the music was glorifying the artist and not God. Much of it also was focused on new age principles and prosperity gospel. One song was about the artist being an "army of one" and doing whatever he wants because life is short...lots of me, me, me and nothing glorifying or even mentioning God, Jesus, or Scripture. Back to the old hymns...they never disappoint!

[@kathleenking47]

Old hymns also have cool chord progressions and melodies Buddy Holly's TRUE LOVE WAYS sounds a little like THERE IS A FOUNTAIN the 1st part

[@Kellie-ti1is]

It’s so great to hear y’all speaking truth. It’s alarming how fast our culture is degenerating and how much of culture has infiltrated Christianity. Everyone is so afraid to stand for righteousness because there is fear of being labeled as hateful.

[@donnyluv4235]

I'm so glad I listened to this episode. I thought I was just imagining the whole Christian music industry's turn. I seen what started to happen back in 1988-1990 when I was in a local Christian metal band. When the rest of the band was getting replaced by players in the professional world, and record labels had only interest in the singer/songwriter, which isn't uncommon. But when they started having him change lyrics to crossover type lyrics, I knew what was up. In a short time, I seen a God fearing man who actually was a pastor, yet amazing song writer, lose his family over the demand for his talent. I didn't want to be a part of the Christian music industry because I seen them for who they really are. Blood sucking vampires. You can't compromise. Once you do, you're done. In my opinion.

[@meganmuellner3423]

I so appreciated this conversation! I definitely feel the tension in my church regarding the songs we sing, especially when most of the music done is from questionable artists. It’s a conversation I need to have with our worship directors as I am on the team. I feel like little compromises add up and it can lead to bigger compromises and before we know it, the church is adopting more worldly values. We need to stand firm in the standards that God sets for us. You are absolutely right that people love Jesus, just not His character. I see it all around, even in members of my church and my own family. Praying for God to open their hearts and minds to the truth so He can set them free 🙏🏻❤️

[@margaretolivas4708]

Thank you so much for addressing the sin in the “Christian” music industry. We need truth and grace

[@jimyoung9262]

Seems like there's only the "music industry" any more

[@Atttt381]

I’m very thankful for you both standing up about this topic. It’s been extremely difficult hearing more and more of these artists deflecting from Christ. It’s like you can’t listen to anyone anymore which is so disappointing and discouraging. But, I think this shows that the Bible is being proven more true each day. If the world hated Jesus then they will hate us too. Our ears will become itchy and listen to blatant lies that comes from Satan himself

[@scottpowell2354]

First, thank you for using the platform you have been blessed with to speak the truth. I’m not in the music industry, but I’ve worked in mega churches and the broadcasting industry. It’s not easy to speak the truth when most people only want their ears to be tickled. This world is so upside down and backwards! I have so much respect for the brothers and sisters in Christ who finish strong! Our reward is in Heaven- not of this world. The “gatekeepers “ are those who love people enough to tell them the truth. The only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ! In a spineless world, full of compromises, the truth can be hard to accept. That doesn’t change the truth- just means people need to change their ways and follow Jesus Christ… I was a big Rich Mullins fan. Skillet was the first concert I took my son too. I listen more to pastors now. I can’t hardly listen to CCM on the radio. I didn’t realize the turn the industry has gone (sad to hear about Caedmon’s Call lead singer). We all need prayer- no judgment. I know that to hear “well done, my good and faithful servant “ would be an overwhelming reward in Heaven. Have to keep standing tall, walking on our trust/faith in Him, and fighting the good fight! God bless you!

[@pammentzer3584]

Amen to this conversation! Such a needed topic! The Lord spoke incredibly harshly toward those who have "contempt" for His commands. Disobedience begins in our heart before we ever act it out. Loved the phrase that John said..."You can't love God and not agree with His character." !

[@jwithrowmusic]

As a worship pastor, 1:00:49 struck deep. Thanks for asking that question. I find that picking the right music, musicians, and presentation to best lead the church (which has people of all ages) in praising and adoring God often means that those leading--and maybe even the church itself--won't be thought of as being cool.

[@jameshannaht]

John: "Today we have a lot of Christian artists UNASHAMED to SAY the name of Christ but absolutely ASHAMED of His chatacter." Woah 💣 🧨💥 Two of my absolute faves in one place, always a treat, thank you - so many truth bombs going off especially in relation to Christians and HOLINESS 💥💥💥

[@TryingTheHardHikeATAdrieWashne]

Excellent. This is the first time I’ve been able to listen to you in a while. And it’s so fantastic. Thank you both. We live in a very confusing world. I am currently faced with what you were talking about -standing up for truth and not worry about who doesn’t like us for it. Just today I told my family that I believe in the Bible. It’s God‘s word. And the Bible talks about marriage between a man and woman in the Bible and that’s who I believe Marriage is for-men and women. I told them that this is not about my feelings or opinions. This is what I believe because I believe in God‘s word.

[@cubbie8330]

Matthew 24:10-12 - And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.

[@nathalyscarborough2144]

Loved getting to listen to your podcast with John Cooper on Apple Podcasts about CCM. It was convicting how you ended with mentioning you’re praying for those you’ve criticized to keep your heart soft towards them. Needed that reminder!

[@GenesisMinistry-ju8gh]

Thank you, John and Alisa, for taking the time to address the things I call the Parallel Collide... where Church and Cult cross collide. After 18 years of being born and raised as a Jehovah's Witness, I entered a Non-Denominational Church for 18 years and walked away 2 years ago because they decided to take the "Big Eva" path. Big Eva shouts conform.

[@heresyhunter2649]

A question for John Cooper: Could your band make a Skillet album where it is all old hymns? Songs such as "I'll Fly Away", "Victory In Jesus", "Blessed Assurance", "Jesus Paid It All", "What A Friend We Have In Jesus", "I've Got A Mansion Over The Hilltop", etc. And could you make it a double-disc set (Disc 1 would be the old hymns in the traditional styles, but with guitars, bass-guitar, keyboard, and drums; and disc 2 would be the same songs as on Disc 1, but in a hard rock/grunge/heavy metal style)? I mean do 20 songs, all of them old hymns, with the band Skillet. But one disc in the traditional style, and the other disc as a contemporary remix (PK Mitchell made an album of old hymns done in a heavy metal style, which sounded almost like a Bon Jovi concert, called "All Hail The Power: The Rock Hymns Project"). This is just a request. And maybe Alisha Childers can be a guest singer on the album. I love the old hymns, and I also love the style of heavy metal music, as I'm a former metalhead myself (before I was saved).

[@leahbergstedt7444]

People have itching ears and we like the teachers who scratch that itch.

[@stephencoe2231]

Thank you for speaking to this and making us aware. I'm in my 60's and spent time in the business end of music and mostly promoting and booking gospel music, and I love rock n roll too. I was in disgust with the record labels back in the 80s. Wolves have always been present and the ignorance of scripture exists as well. The creativity of the artist can be very exciting and helps keep relationships fresh. However, I'm very concerned with what is being written, there appears to be no counsel in comparison between the lyrics and the scriptures. I now find myself stop singing in the middle of a song when I realize that the rhyme came first before the meaning of the word. Perversion is growing in many ways in the corporate church. And satan the former worship leader nows the power of praise and worship. We really need to pray about what "compromise " is. Choose wisely grasshopper.

[@EveryDayWalkingWithChrist]

This new born from above had to quickly winnow my entirely Christian YTMusic library based upon the lyrics. THANK YOU ALISA and JOHN for your guidance. GOD BLESS YOU BOTH

[@Strongtower]

Check out "Sons of Korah", they just sing the psalms. Also check out "Keith Green", his lyrics are very biblical and encouraging.

[@lynnwaters2557]

Speaking so much TRUTH. I’m glad that you are speaking about this subject. Too many singers I’ve listened to and have been disappointed to see that I listened to them or even bought their music. Continue to speak up for the truth and not white washing the gospel of Jesus.

[@lenazagorodny1399]

Alisa is the definition of graceful aging. Made more beautiful from the inside 🥰

[@sweethometreasures]

Really appreciated this conversation. So much to think about, with regard to how we worship. Will definitely be praying for today's Christian artists and talking directly with my kids about our worship lyrics. Thanks guys! 🙌

[@kimberlymurray304]

Love Childers Stuff episodes!! 🔥👏😄

[@bethanyc1647]

I love you guys together! Such a fun balance of personality, both sharing truth.😂❤

[@jrc225522]

Thank you for holding to God's truth. Great conversation and awareness of what is happening in Christian culture. May we all seek to be holy as God is Holy.

[@lindachamberland4226]

This is really fascinating. Thanks for sharing the insider views. ...I LOVED my Christian music growing up.. I wluks go to the bookstore and listen to all the store copies of the latest Cd’s 🥰 My friend Sarah and I choreographed a dance for gym class to a Zoegirl song and I stood up in my highschool English class to analyze the lyrics of a 38th Parallel song hoping they would hear some truth. I met my husband at Creation festival. I def have mourned the state of things. But it does make more sense knowing about the higher ups ... my husband and I now kind of joke every time a Christian song comes on the radio and try to guess what secular artist they are supposed to be the “Christian version” of bc whew, there are some obvious ones. “Christian Adele” “Christian Bruno Mars” “Christian Billy Eilish” I’m sure you guys can guess the Christian artist equivalents. 😬😜😭 I hope that’s not how they release these Christian artists but sometimes it sure seems like it.

[@tomblack9401]

Alisa, your comment at 1:00:49 about worship bands being limited (explicitly or implicitly) to a narrow age group really hits home. I'll be 70 next year. While my musical training was on classical violin, I have been a guitarist/multi-instrumentalist and have played in churches for over 50 years and played in Christian coffeehouses in their heyday in the 1970s and their short revival in the 1990s. I enjoyed it and felt called to use my talents and training in service to Christ's body. My natural style is folk-rock like Dan Fogelberg or Michael Card. For the last 20 years I have fought age discrimination in worship bands and have ultimately been pushed out of 3 bands (and two churches) during that time because I tried to play modern and post-modern music in my natural style rather than exactly as recorded (note for note, strum for strum, no embellishing or interpreting the part). During a rant about how the band wasn't playing the style "right" I even had one worship leader point at me and say, "...and I've got Phil Keaggy over there on acoustic guitar" and he didn't mean it as a complement. I've also seen too many worship leaders who want to be a performing star on Sunday mornings and use the worship band as their backing band. The music itself has also changed, becoming more and more "dumbed down" musically and lyrically and "all about me, me, me" over the last 25 years. Seeing all of those changes and being pushed out of something I love and felt called to do really hurts, and I struggle to not be angry and bitter about it.

[@mildmayheadless5217]

Sorry abou that, I just wanted to say that any comparison to Phil Keaggy or Glass Harp is high praise, whether he meant it or not. Be encouraged.

[@bossmom522]

Thank u for reality in Christian music.. it’s sad and scary times..Praise God for your platform!! Blessings to you!!

[@bemoguy]

I pre-ordered your EP a couple of days ago. I look forward to hearing it and receiving my physical copy!

[@righteousapparelllc9138]

I love how you so beautifully and graciously navigated through this conversation and consistently brought it back to the key points of honoring God and loving our neighbors and praying for those we don't agree with. Well done! So proud to call you a sister in Christ. Continue to stay faithful in doing what the Lord has given you to do.

[@nomad100hd]

When they insult you instead of crafting an intelligent argument, they, in essence, are admitting defeat.

[@sapphirelane1714]

I was raised in a church with incorrect teachings, but I’m still glad they only sing the classic hymns without the instruments and lights. I was appalled to find out how many churches don’t do this!

[@ETube1971]

LOL at "Dereka Webb". But, seriously, it's disturbing what is happening right now in Christian music and in the church and we need to fight against it. Raising awareness with videos like this helps.

[@brackinsteve]

Thank you for your stance. Loved the program. Holiness is the key to revival .

[@XcaliburCat]

I really appreciate you both mentioning Plumb. When I saw her posts, I really was stunned. I listened to her for years and to see her shift in viewpoint surprised me

[@pursueadventure]

Love this conversation! Thank you Alisa and John!

[@samburton2978]

I grew up in the world of Southern Gospel Music. I'm not going to name names, but the immorality and crazy lifestyles has been around since well before CCM. 🥺

[@enricoabrahams5061]

I like what Cooper is saying about the commandments :) I will say that there is a difference between compliance and obedience, which is that when I keep a commandment begrudgingly, wishing that God didn't have that in there, that's mere compliance, whereas truly loving the will and the character of God and keeping the commandments for THAT reason, that's obedience. The unsaved and unconverted can also outwardly comply to be seen of men like the Pharisees did, but only those who have been saved, those who have been forgiven AND transformed by Grace, can truly OBEY God's will, because the love of God is poured into their heart by the Holy Spirit who is given to them (Romans 5:5)

[@rechedrakeford5949]

We are watchmen on the wall! Ezekiel 3 and 33✝️

[@idahojoe8232]

A lot of music today is just noise. Born again over 12 years ago, tired of all the noise. I do love me some Keith Green though. I see that is the consensus here. He was the real deal…. Soli Deo Gloria ☝️

[@PastorDavidBess]

Thank you for posting this conversation! It's so encouraging to hear Christian musicians concerned about sound theology in what they sing. Please revisit this subject regularly! Great job.

[@j96569]

Just because a book is sold in a "Christian bookstore" doesn't mean it's Christian. Just because a song is labeled CCM, doesn't mean it's Christian. Read your Bible so you can kmow the difference.

[@pamelaworthington4743]

Excellent ChilderStuff. Hitting on point a crucial issue in the church. John is smart & a crack up. Appears to know the Word and where to stand. (I stopped listening for awhile bc I wasn’t sure where he was going) Glad I listened in to hear this. Alisha is gorgeous inside and out. We should all age so well. Her standing on her convictions is what we need today to make it in these times. And for a powerful testimony. I’m 69 yrs old. A Christian for 45. It is quite concerning being in the midst of the drastic change in “CCM”. Please, keep on keepin on! 🙏🏽♥️🙌🏽

[@63stratoman]

John Cooper makes an excellent point regarding what is entertainment and what is worship. I am a musician and songwriter myself and the majority of my material I would never use in a “worship” service! I think I may have two or three that are suitable and the rest I have done at open mic and acoustic gigs. I also play much differently in Church than I would at a gig. I am always saying “Let Church be Church and a Blues Jam a Blues Jam!” And I am 60 and can really feel out of place at times. I have stepped away from “leading” worship because it is just not me. My passion is more in teaching the world these days anyway. And I do have a problem with people up on the platform looking ragged and overly casual! I do not foist my opinion on anyone but I show up for church in clean blue jeans and collared shirts and try to be respectful of where I am and what I am doing.

[@mpmikeb1290]

Amen. We are all called to repent and live for Christ. How much do you hate others that you will not tell them the truth and salvation? If we love each other, we will tell them the true gospel of Christ.

[@JotaTondi]

Great episode !!! After years of a chaotic conflict with church and my beliefs, now I'm full on commited to be the best christian I can be. Too much time being lost and now... gotta say it.. I'm found.

[@paxetgratia]

Thank you for addressing this issue! Actually, in addition to the music, there are a number of things that we should rethink about our church services, including the type of building we gather in and the design of the interior.

[@michaelbrutsche75]

“Distraction Dilemma”, A ten part series on the origins and development of Christian music by Christian Berdahl, is a excellent resource for Christian music revival

[@richardtowne6771]

Berdahl believes that syncopation is anti-Christian.

[@kmsongbird]

At a little over one hour into this conversation, John Cooper alludes to the fact that he's Skillet. I'd heard of Skillet, I'd heard that band on Air1 back before it was doing nothing but "worship" music. But I'd never heard his name before, and I'd never heard one of his podcasts. Illuminating! (yeah, 63 year old here, not a huge fan of metal-like music. But deep respect!)

[@christinaadams7093]

This has to be the absolute best I have seen in the world of KZbin! Thanks so much for putting this out in this crazy world.

[@stevekeyes9402]

Hey Alisa/John you discussions are so refreshing. You both have a jealousy for the truth first then apply it to the industry in your discussion. It is beautiful that you both reflect Christ in your tender compassion for the industry. For you both God is the source of everything! Grace to you both.

[@nb7524]

Big eva “..they push left and punch right…” It feels like “…being freed from moral restrictions, but you’re being enslaved into bondage…” Just a couple of the really accurate statements within this solid broadcast.

[@rebeccaa.4992]

❤ this was what I needed to hear. Thank you both! Yes, we, God's people, do need to remember the fear of the Lord and walk with Him in holiness. Please consider recording hymns with modern music, meaning the lyrics don't change just the style of music accompanying the lyrics. Also, Alisa, you are beautiful!

[@joyceelmer131]

Thank you for this wonderful podcast!❤

[@cedarbrooknut]

Thanks for this!! Thanks for speaking truth in kindness despite the consequences. Music is so powerful. What a great reminder that we can use it to point others to the excellency of Christ and not ourselves.

[@emzifish]

Thank you so much for sharing your conversation. I've been dissatisfied with the direction CCM music is heading for a while now - but I definitely felt in the minority in my opinions. In recent weeks, through conversations like this, I'm seeing that there are others who share the same concerns. Thank you so much!

[@valeriehancock1724]

I’ve watched the CCM award where it was hard to get through. It wasn’t about Jesus. Most of the music was “me centered” and not of God. I no longer listen to my local Christian radio station because it rarely plays sound biblical music. It’s full of Hillsong, Bethel, Lauren Daigel, and other artists that I no longer listen to.

[@emzifish]

@@valeriehancock1724 yes! I'm tired of me centered songs, and I don't like Hillsong and Bethel's direction either, so I don't listen to the radio much anymore either. Let's sing about God, who's unchanging! I'm all over the place 😂

[@prov_31grl]

So sad to hear about plumb she was a favorite of mine too... My prayers go out to her.

[@conniekline9881]

This is the first time I have listened to one of your videos Alissa, and I am so encouraged by your love and tenacity for the Word of God and His truths. Thank you for having John Cooper, and I will check out his program as well. My daughters and I used to listen to Zoe Girl so many years ago, so thank you for giving some history behind that time period. God bless you and keep at the work He has called you too.

[@TheRealEReal]

As a musician and a Christian all I can say is blah! It’s so frustrating to be feed the same formulaic nonsense that comes out of the “Christian” music and cultural industry. As Christian’s we should be at the forefront of artistic creativity, not coping the world and trying to be relevant. The Church is indeed in dire straits. Thanks for trying to address the issue of what I believe is conformity to the world. We can’t expect a spot on the world’s stage and not sell our souls.

[@NoNonsense77]

False. People who were serving Jesus have been on many big stages all through history. Some of you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Come on.

[@TheRealEReal]

@@NoNonsense77 I was referring to conformity and to my displeasure with artist who are more concerned with being like the world. Yes, if God places you in a situation were you have a voice than by all means speak the truth with love and respect. But if your sole intention is to be like the world to try and help God out I believe you’re misguided.

[@djdiener4673]

I was so happy to see this on my feed, then Cooper brought up how the man looks and even printed his pic..this too is our witness.