CNC Mill Setting Tool and Work Offsets Practical

Hello everyone, welcome to At-Man Unlimited. Let’s walk through the setup process I use for jobs. I will show the techniques we talked about in the tool and fixture offset videos in real practice. We will start by loading up a piece of stock. Then set our tool height offsets. Last we will set the fixture offsets and verify everything. We can then load a file into machine to be run.
If you have any questions please feel free to comment or email me, [e-mail]
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[@DUCKS2525]

Great Stuff! Just bought a Fadal and trying to learn as much as possible! Thanks for the content!

[@modulargutters6295]

I just purchased a 15xt, can’t thank you enough for this video 👍👍

[@jasonmong2428]

Thanks for the videos Tim this one really helped me with the work offsets and how to set the z height for the work piece. I bought a 15xt a few months ago and just about have it ready to make parts. Thanks again , Jason

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Awesome Jason, good to hear another Fadal making parts again

[@ElectronDust]

Great Video. Thanks for uploading!

[@LetsMachine]

Great video, thanks for sharing it!

[@ErostheEpic]

When you remember where all the shortcuts to setting tools on a Fadal is, set up can be speedy and stress free with these. Best bang for your buck!

[@zbigniewkonopka3640]

Love fadal Machine . That was my old shop work . Making mold bases and airplane brakes

[@doomraider551]

You know after all these years and all the vmc's... the simplicity of a Fadal!

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Keep it simple!

[@Paullyb79]

I love the Fallout 3 mod you did to the monitor and GUI. Must have been a lot of work.

[@umargul5644]

Well done

[@MrCoffeypaul]

Looking forward to seeing the next vid!

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

It has been a while, still working through some stuff.

[@MrCoffeypaul]

Thanks for the reply, the console u got is an old one BUT always a way around that!!!

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

I have the Calmotion upgrade and it has been awesome!

[@phillip5179]

Thank you Tim! Super helpful.

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Happy to help

[@mvpolo2k3]

Stumbled across the video looking for extra videos for my students. I teach CNC machining at a apprentice to journerman level. One thing I noticed, with tooling offsets that are that high, you lose a lot of overhead workable space, since your H call will move 12-14" negative Z if you are running G43. Heres what I do, and it may make your life easier. I have a 3/4" Solid bar in one of my BT40 holders. sharpened to a point. I use this tool as a MASTER GAUGE for all my tooling measurements and offsets. Its about 1" longer than any tool I use, and it has no runout, and abviously the pointed tip. The easiest way ive found to measure tool length is using this tool, jogging Z to zero my hight setter (2"). Then reset my relative Z to 0.000. Then swapping in each tool, say #1 which is a 1/2 EM, touch the z setter again, and I end up with something like -3.556". This saves a ton of room when doing large parts, where the Z-H offset might get in the way. Also, I use the Z setter to touch off the sides and faces of the vice, and the top of the parallels with a 123 block in them, just have to remember to add or subtract my 2.375" (2 for z setter and .375 for 1/2 of my master gauge dia), and 1" for the 123 block. This is way easier (and safer on tools) than touch off. I like what you have done, and i teach my students a similar way IF they dont have something like a master zero, or a probe of some kind, but I found that using an old tool holder and a piece of rod has saved me and immense amount of time in setups over the years. Just me 2c. ***it should be said that my MASTER ZERO that i use would normally be taken up by something like a 3d taster, but it serves a similar purpose. just a lot cheaper.

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Hello, there are lots of ways to skin the cat here. I'm not sure if I agree that is easier or has any additional benefits.The primary reason is that it adds a level of uncertainty to the equation. By keeping my Z "reference" at the machine cold start position I always know that the tool offsets I previously measured are still valid. Unless I do a repair on the machine the cold start will never shift. However, if you use the added step of the reference bar how do you know that no one adjusted or changed it since the last time the tool offset was measured. It also helps prepare me for the shift from "Table Zero" methods to "Gage Line Zero" methods if I expand my operation.I don't see the negative aspect you point out of "saving room"? If you watch one of the part videos during a tool change it does not matter if the part is 1" tall or 10" tall. After the tool change is complete, I apply both the Work offset (G5x) and the tool offset (Hx G43) at the same time as the initial Z move to the part. So the machine moves seamlessly from tool change height to initial plane part height. The rest is just math in the controller and it does not really care.I do like your idea of using the Z setter to then set a work offset. I have not thought about doing that before, I will need to try that one out.Thank you for being a teacher, we are rapidly loosing our pool of skilled machinists.Tim

[@mvpolo2k3]

The bar method always works for me. the bar itself never changes, and everything is measured off of it, tool length, and work offsets, so everything is relative. if the bar gets damaged or replaced, I simply have to use the same diameter bar, and reset my tool offsets, not really a huge deal, since ive only had to do it once in 3 years. each machine i have has a dedicated labelled bar to use. Ill eventually post a video of how i do it, just for educational sake. The only thing i was thinking on your machine was maybe it took the length of the longest tool and used that to offset the length of all the shorter tools automatically. but let me ask, when you do an MDI G43 H# and that tool offset is maybe -13.0, how far does the spindle move?

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

I never enter a G43 H# alone on a line, I always combine it with a Z move to an initial work plane. So it would be G00 Z##.# G43 H#. In this case the Z axis will move from where ever it is to place the tool tip at the defined Z value. To remove the tool offset I call a G00 Z0.0 G43 H0, This will remove the offset and move the Z up to the tool change height.

[@mvpolo2k3]

right but by calling a G43 H# by itself, that would show what the actual calculation was doing, if it was in fact applying the entire offset value entered or subtracting the tool offsets from the longest one in the system. To do the tool change on my Fanuc I just do a G28 Z0.0 and it cancels all offsets and goes to ATC position. I havent worked with many other interfaces than Haas and Fanuc so maybe fadal uses a different way to calculate the height. My reasoning for the bar method is my workpiece is sometimes bigger than my table, if I break a tool and have to reset it, I can measure my tool offset from anywhere, not just the table itself, since I would have to remove my workpiece to use the setter.

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

It applies the whole offset value, does not care what other tools are in the rack. Yes, using the table is an issue if you break a tool and can't get at the table. In that case if I found my self doing that a lot I would switch to positive offsets and use a tool pre setter outside the machine. I will eventually switch to gauge line offsets anyway. Just need to get other things that are more important then a pre setter right now. But gauge line is by far the best to use and most widely used in industry.

[@parkashparkash3053]

Nice video, may I know how do you take part Z offset using that setter. Thanks

[@violamae4764]

Nice

[@anamy]

ty

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

welcome

[@RJMachine62]

Great videos. Curious to why you use the utilities to set multiple tool length offsets, but use the paper and write down the dimensions and manually enter for the fixture offset? Why not just use the fixture offset util that tells you to jog there, then record the values for x,y,z? Again, curious if there was a specific reason?

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

The utilities did not really save me that much time. I use them for X and Y now but you can't apply tool offset values so it does not work for Z. Also when using the find corner or midpoint it forces both X and Y to update which does not work well.

[@shemnegahdar8266]

Hello would you please make a video about your cnc/pc comunication setup so that I/we can follow? Thanks

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Thanks for your interest, I would be more then happy to make that video.

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Shem Negahdar, here is the video on the interface kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3vNin6qptSaa7s

[@Factory400]

Wondering if Fanuc has an equivalent routine. I have been using Renishaw probes on Haas machines for 12 years and totally forgot how to manually touch off anything. My latest endeavor put me in front of all Fanuc controlled Doosan/Daewoo machines with no probes. Back to the basics for me, lol.

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

I'm sure then do, but the Fadal is really simple

[@joesmith2465]

you don't have to reset tool offsets everytime you do a job or shut machine off do you? I just got a fadal 3016 and it has the renishaw mp12 probe i'm kind of getting stuck on how to implement it. its much different then my centroid controlled mill. there must be somewhere to setup the probe offset tool number and probe tip diameter? and a way to use it for setting work offsets?

[@jonaszkajfasz7907]

Hello, do I start the measurement from the CS position? would like to measure a tool from the spindle

[@DUCKS2525]

After you set your both tool heights 2" off of the table. Then touch off to the top of the part for your G54. When you entered in the new x,y,z coordinates did it update the other tools? If not, how can you get all of the tools in the toolchanger to update to the proper G54 "Z" height? I just bought a Fadal Machine 1 month ago. Thanks again for this content!

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Hello DucksWe are actually applying two different sets of offsets. Also keep in mind, even though my tool setter is 2" high, the machine is setup to subtract the 2" during the tool offset measuring step. So the offsets are really set to the table, not the tool setter height.First is the tool length offset, that is applied by setting the tool offset number of "H1" for tool 1.Then applying the G43 command.With the method we are using here by setting and applying just this offset, if you then command a Z position of 0.00 the tool would move to the surface of the table. Each tool has its own "H" number with an offset that will yield the tool just touching the table at Z0.00. That is the first step.The next step is dealing with the fixture offsets, those are the G54, 55, 56......We measure the distance from the surface of the table to where the Z 0.0 reference of our part wants to be. This should always be a positive number. That number is entered for the fixture offset for Z.Now if we apply both offsets at the same time, the Z0.0 location will be at the point you wanted on your part. It is important to note you must apply both G43 and G54 offset settings at the same time when you do your first Z move.When we change tools we simply just change the "H" offset number for the new tool.Hope that helps clear it up a little.

[@ravikumar-lv4pg]

how

[@thechosen1421]

On a fanuc, whenever you touch off tools you just have to add -2.00 for the height of the block?

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Correct, you just need to account for the block height.

[@thechosen1421]

Thanks for the info. The offsets worked great, but I have another question for you. I'm programming some parts that are almost the same but different thicknesses. normally , on older new fanucs CNC's you have roughly 48 G54-G54-P01 offsets so I can just have 5 different work offsets with different z's (being the top of the part). unfortunately the machine I'm using only has 6 offsets. If I reprogrammed all of the parts based on the top of the fixture (which will never change) or bottom of the stock making the z values positive. I can use the same offset for all 5 parts correct.

[@hubertqueen1541]

Do you use format 1 or 2?

[@alexandrucosmin90]

What is the inconvenient to set tool length 0 and take Z on the part? Thanks

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

If you set your tool or Z relative to some surface on the part, for example the top of raw stock. Then if you machine that reference off and break a tool later in the run it makes it a lot harder to reset the length.

[@josedejesusmaciel2925]

I have a question... So, the workoffset E2 is Relative to the Lenght Offset H11?? The workoffset then is gonna be relative to the tool you are using to set your fixture offset??? I really hope you answer me Thanks for your videos

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Hello Jose, it can get a bit complicated because there are so many different ways to do things. It comes down to needing some reference to set the tools to. That can be the machine table, the gauge line, or some people will use the top of a part or vise (not recommended). Any time you apply a tool offset, the "zero" will be at that reference. If the "Zero" of your part is not at the same reference your tools are set at you can then use a work offset to move it. Does that help?

[@josedejesusmaciel2925]

i have seen most of your videos, very helpfull But, what i try to say is I set all my tools with a gage block of 2 inches just above the machine table Now i want to setup a work offset, E2, i need to write the same as you (G0 H11 Z6.0)? and use that tool to setup my fixture?

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Jose, if you wanted to use your tool to measure the fixture height then yes. If you used the tool setting utility and told it the height of your block then the tool tip will move to 6 above the table. If you did not tell it your block height or did it by hand you would end up a t 8 above the table.

[@rogeredens6099]

Can you do one on balancing servo card

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Yes, I need to do that with the new Calmotion boards so I will film it as well.

[@duediligence791]

I have a ts27 probe I’ve been trying to figure out how to do offsets with. Manual isn’t all that clear as most know.

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

You need to use a work offset to depict the location of the setter. Then use the tool setting utilities and it is pretty easy. It will ask which side of the table the setter is located, which work offset you used, and if you set a gauge line offset.

[@sardarjivlogsingaporewale3592]

Make video for vmc setter

[@mrAq_pA]

VMC 2216 ? :) or even smaller ?

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Smaller, VMC15 20,16,20

[@jaysilverheals4445]

great videos however for new people happening upon them be aware that the dial thing he uses to set the tools is generally not used in real life especially in high risk high dollar setups such as mold work in which tens of thousands of dollars could be lost for the slightest mistake or bad setting of a tool. The dial devices can be cautiously used--but they complicate the issue and are an item created to make money --for the maker of the device. Note that the needle spins around many times--the truth is you cannot trust where you are at. They are also not more accurate but some people visually see the dial and think they are--the gauge block method works instantly--and to millionths. Another issue is that its often necessary to indicate the top of the gauge block upon which the tools were set--and then run over to a known machined spot or starting point and be able to know the exact distance in z--you cannot do that using the dial setter. The dial setters are generally sitting around unused and wasted money in high risk machining. They also jam. The shaft jams and there is a mechanism inside that works "for a while'--but you cannot be sure when it goes bad gradually. Was just up at a shop in which one sits that he has taken apart many times to try to keep it working. It sits unused but once in a while he uses it so as "not to feel he wasted his money" Note also that the high tech dial has silly magnets on the bottom. You are hoping it repeats setting it on some surface even though the magnets will DEFINITELY have tiny chips and detritus stuck on them?? In mold works where blending must be done to split tenths the dial devices are of no use nor do they belong in a shop. The dial is in thousands--not tenths.

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Hello Jeff I can not disagree more. The setter you see in this video was used for 2 years (still used sometimes) before I installed the Renishaw tool setter. It never jammed, failed, or came out of calibration. Just like any instrument, proper care and use is the key. It cost about $200 from MSC and paid for it self within the first week I owned it in time savings. If it broke, it didn't owe me a dime and I would order another one at the drop of a hat. It is repeatable within 0.0002" from my experience. On my machine the Renishaw probe is repeatable within 0.0001". I challenge you to set tools repeatable to 0.0002" with a gauge block in a timely manor. If you can, your a heck of a lot better then most of the people I know. If your trying to hold less then a thou, your not setting tools manually and your using in process probing to get there. If your trying to hold less then a tenth, you have one heck of an expensive machine, in an expensive climate controlled building, and your not watching some guy in a garage on youtube show the basics of tool setting ;)

[@jimfran2761]

I just touch to stock hit 5 to set lenth and call next tool much faster . This is a cool way but way to slow .

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Hello Jim, touching off stock is a good method used by many. It does however have its cons. The major one is what happens if your in the middle of machining your part where all the rough stock is gone and a tool breaks? It becomes a lot more complex to replace the tool and reset the length because the zero point is now gone. Using this method you always have a known zero place no matter what your doing. It also leads into using a tool setter in the future. When you transition to a tool setter you basically do the same steps but its automated. This way you don't need to change your work flow at all. I would also challenge you to set 10 tools to within 0.0005" faster touching off the stock verse using this simple dial setter. I have timed it, this is much faster and easier to get accurate results.

[@jimfran2761]

At-Man Unlimited Machining. Thank you for your info I'm still in the learning process. I run a fadal mill and a sharp mill. I'm trying to come up with a program for thread milling a hole with a thread size .250- 28 un at .475 deep and don't have a master cam so how would I code that for iconel.?

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Check out Fusion 360, it can do thread milling. Just watch how much material your taking in a pass with the harder stuff. You can also program it by hand if your good at G code. It is just a bunch of G2 or G3 lines with the Z move that matches your thread pitch. That generates the helix. Also these guys have a pretty good online calculator that posts the code out. sct-usa.com/thread-mill-code-generator/

[@ClawYTC]

So basically, this video teaches how to be a cnc setter ?

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

It is a demonstration of how I manually set tool offset lengths and work offsets. Could be used on a CNC or manual machine to set a DRO.

[@loukola5353]

The Fadal interface is stuck in the 70s. I would be annoyed if I had to work with it every day.

[@AtManUnlimitedMachining]

Most people I know like running them, its pretty simple once you get used to it and its fast.

[@AshersVids]

My Fadal from late 80s is Better than my Fanuc control from 1999.