Codependence vs Interdependence: How Much Should We Rely On Our Partners?

[@Dd94949]

This video is so wonderful. And doesn't this touch directly on the anxious-avoidant dynamic? It's so common for people to start dating and not be explicit/aware about what they're looking for - and by the time they realize, they might be over-invested. I think we sometimes assume that our implicit needs will be understood by others, but that just isn't the case. Mind-reading isn't a true human skill. I don't think that means we should have to be explicit about all of our needs, all the time. But when you first start dating someone, I think it's key to be aware of what a person is "capable" of offering you, and not capable, and what "sacrifices" you may need to make to stay in relationship. Of course, people can change and adapt if we are explicit (and this is a great way to explore and build trust), but I think it's a bit of an inherent human paradox that sometimes what attracts us to someone at first almost definitely isn't "enough" to sustain a long term, healthy relationship. I guess that I'm trying to say...if, within the first 3-6 months of a relationship, you don't feel comfortable or confident enough yet to be fairly explicit about your needs - what is that telling you about the relationship? Do you really want to be 1 year into a relationship and not really feel understood or supported by your partner? Stan Tatkin says we are basically "drunk on love" in the first year of a relationship and almost incapable of seeing the relationship clearly. Does anyone else have any thoughts here? Codependence is an interesting concept since it actually comes from addiction. It's the idea that you've "decided" that someone else's problem should rule your life. Right of the bat, if you are seeking relationships where you need to "fix" someone, that is not a good sign. As Heidi says, relationships should be "complementary" and negotiated. I'm not saying that if someone is sick you should "keep away". But what I am saying is that you're in a relationship with a person with challenging needs, which means you're going to need to be hyper conscious of your own needs and boundaries because they will be constantly challenged - and it could be argued that if you were aware early on that this partner had potential addiction or other serious problems, that the fixer/enmeshed role may be something you are drawn to. This is all really complicated...but at the end of the day, a relationship should ideally "lift up" your life (most of the time), not make it harder. ALSO - setting up "co-dependent" dynamics with your children where you are "too often" doing things for them that they could do for themselves (with your support) is also something to be very aware of! Being "intrusive" in meeting your child's needs can also be a relationship rupture - that requires repair - however, it can be hard to "see" this if you enjoy meeting your child's needs "too much". Children also have considerable needs for autonomy, but still within our loving "watch". It is a common family dynamic that if spouses aren't meeting each other's needs, one or both, will try to get their needs met by the children. Watch out! Seek secure attachment within yourself, and you will be better able to offer it to your children.

[@adarshraghuram6858]

I find this so self explanatory. Why are people scared of dependence. We all depend on each other. We depend on soldiers to protect the borders and so on. Dependability is a good trait. Reliability is a good trait. Yes over dependence is not healthy. Nothing in extreme is healthy

[@xoxo3703]

Exactly

[@xoxo3703]

Exactly

[@ollis1270]

My DA ex did have a work relationship where she was always available for everything work related anytime. But freaked the f out when I said we'd need to get up before 1 o clock on a weekend. I did not even notice it that much until there came a time When I needed her more because I was having a rough time (lost my grandma, had to work on my thesis and was lonely in the town I lived). I asked her to spent quality time with me on the weekend. She did not invest anything, was absent and showed she did not like spending the time. I got angry when she checked her phone during something that was supposed to be a romantic boat tour. When I asked her to stop she gave me a lecture on how important she is at work because she is the project lead... I tried to talk about what relationship Id like to have and she basically told me everyone is out for themselves having expectations is basically a weakness and relationship and dependancy are not linked. I broke up with her as i figured if i am not allowed to need her I will not need her and if I don't need her why bother. It's not like I was not supportive with all her feelings before (if she bothered to show them)

[@DrSmoke2104]

I needed to hear every word she said... I recently admitted to myself that I'm attached to someone. I'm starting to realize the correct way of loving them instead of just being attached and create problems for the both of us.

[@trevorfrayne6418]

This is such an amazing explanation. Thank you for using both work and relationship examples. As an INTJ, my brain could make sense of the work examples instantly and then be able to see the similarities with relationships.

[@DanDanRobotMan]

I think there is a challenge when trying to communicate needs and boundaries. People have different interpretations of words based on their experiences and perspective. This goes horribly bad when we think we have a common understanding, but don't (think British vs American English). So developing relationships is this tricky dance of simultaneously figuring out boundaries and communication styles.

[@halluciongen3000]

I loved this video and I think as a North American you're trying to reach an audience that understans that lingo. But it says something that we always have to look to the workplace for analogies of or romantic relationships because we're so deeply rooted in work culture.

[@HelloThere-ki5mg]

I really liked your explanation and analogies. I've recently been learning the difference between codependence and interdependence after cutting ties with a toxic friend of mine. She would constantly dump all of her emotional needs on me, without asking if I was willing or capable of handling them. She needed my affirmation for absolutely everything, and it felt very invalidating to be forced into the "listening" position. Over time I gradually started to dislike our friendship more and I would think to myself "why do I feel like crap whenever I'm around this person?" and neither of us were doing anything blatantly "mean", I was stuck in a state of confusion. However, your videos around that time really helped me understand what the issue was and I want to thank you for that. I realized that the reason I don't like being around her is because I'm not capable of meeting her needs, and that for my own mental health I needed to stop being friends with her. However, I don't need to completely cut her out. I can have a friendly conversation, but I need to keep a distance because I've grown to learn that once she gets close to someone, it turns into a reliance. I wish the best for her, and hope that she can learn to do her own self work and not have to depend on someone else.

[@kburns2470]

I know you left this comment 2 years ago, but I just thought I'd bring up this possibility for you or anyone else reading. I've been that person in the past, relying on my partner in this way to be there for me to talk through my problems as long as I wanted, seeing this as just the "normal" thing to do for someone you love when they're struggling with something. I didn't realize I was doing anything wrong until I started doing more self-development work. I think if you care about someone, you can talk to them about how what they're doing is affecting you. They probably don't realize what they're doing, and they might be willing to work on changing.

[@MisSkeeto]

That part about being on call 24/7/365, could never take time off, meeting employers needs no matter what? Well as a stay at home mom, that sounds exactly like my job. Haha. Don't worry. I love my "job" 😍

[@jeffkramer28]

Wow, I needed this video three years ago. It would have saved me a lot of wasted time and energy. But hey, that failed relationship from three years ago is ultimately what lead me here, to Heidi’s channel. So now I’m learning a lot of what I need to know.

[@brianascott9072]

The most helpful video I’ve encountered explaining healthy expectations and boundaries in relationships!! Wow ❤️🙏🏼👏🏻

[@saral5373]

she reminded me of having children - minutes 9:25 ish we must also have boundarie swith our families- this is huge ! for so many , feeling bad for not meeting their needs 24/7 -

[@GeoScorpion]

I actually take notes during some of your podcasts, Ms. Priebe, but this comment is about your one-camera, hard-edits (where the frames jump because the ending and beginning points of the edit are into the same camera). I admire that you can do a hard edit jump, but your voice is so steady and on-tone and on-pace that our minds just accept it. Good job! If there was ever a video that captured you "behind the scenes" from composition to presentation to edit, I'd watch every unedited 14 - 40 hours of it. 😊

[@chania80]

You explain everything so well Heidi. Thank you! I have gained alot from all your videos.

[@meriliscott2708]

So well communicated and insightful. Thank you so much for this.

[@restlessmosaic]

From my own mental struggles (and I will be explicit about the struggles in a moment, which might necessitate a trigger warning), having a healthy self-esteem and sense of worth are necessary preconditions to interdependence making sense. Without those, interdependence can sound like this (as it did for me at various points in this video): "So healthy relationships are just about convenience? But that's not enough. I do not have enough good qualities for anyone to keep me around if I'm not literally essential. If I can be discarded, I should be discarded and I will be discarded, and I should discard myself out of kindness before they do." And while you might naturally reply with the work analogy, the trick in my life is that I have actually gone for a job that I basically treat as 24/7/365 on call even if I don't have to (and even though my bosses don't treat me that way). I also was the first person to do at my job, and I wrote a law that politicians passed giving me and only me special powers. (I'm a lawyer for Seattle, so that's not as weird as it sounds.) And I keep going into niche subjects that increase the odds that I'm the only one around me who understands the subject deeply. I make myself the closest thing to indispensable because I don't have enough self-worth to take another job. So you see how this manifests in relationships, because it's the exact same. And you see that my unhealthiness makes the lessons of this video harder to absorb. "Why would secure people be in a relationship if they have no urgent needs?," I think to myself, because that's my only frame of reference. I just wanted to point out for anyone this video isn't making sense for that there are other things to work on before it comes together. For those of us who don't have those things yet, I'm assuming Heidi is right and I'm the faulty one.

[@Stephanie-xz7qd]

Managed to make some progress?

[@restlessmosaic]

@@Stephanie-xz7qd Some? Maybe? It is probably better than when I wrote this - it's certainly not worse - but I'm finding it hard to measure.

[@Starlightserenity]

Your analogies are fantastic, it makes a frequently misunderstood concept very clear. You really have a talent for this!

[@L.Hodson]

You’re so wise! I wish I could see you talking more about codependency…

[@dmt7674]

Check out Kenny Weiss!

[@samantham.8265]

I grew up spending all of my formative years thoroughly steeped in a home environment of codependence, enmeshment, and fear-mongering. I fell head over heels in love with the man who became my husband, when we were teens. I had absolutely no lived experience as a single, autonomous, independent person, and neither did he. And for a long time, neither of us saw any issue with that. We've been together a decade and a half now, and are going through a VERY rough time in our marriage as I navigate the waters of learning how to be interdependent instead of codependent. Things are improving! With a lot of hard work. The thing that freaks me out about this process is how it's making me feel about my relationships. Turns out, when you've lived your life unhealthily attached to your loved ones, and they to you...normal, healthy degrees of attachment sometimes seem formal, cold, distant, aloof, and insubstantial - more like a business transaction than the time of close devotion I want. Are there solutions to this? If so, what are they?

[@roses123ize]

Straightforward & useful, like specifics on particularly attachment problems *

[@thierryramais2300]

Heidi, let me start by saying that I've been loving your videos. It has enlightened me so, so much about my relationship with my wife in the current time of trouble. They have allowed ne to find compassion for myself and for what my wife has been (and still is) going through. As the anxious attachment person, I'm a little stuck at the idea if "finding other outlets" for (sexual) needs, though. Self-love isn't fulfilling and infidelity is out of the question for me. What are healthy ways to cope with the physical/emotional needs that don't involve codependency with your partner? Sublimation?

[@debutchi]

outside of the idea that codependency is tied to emotional needs and stability, ive also heard it as the codependent individual feeling a sense of purpose by striving to work with and or fix broken individuals whether they be unstable in their attachments or depressed or addicted to substances. the codependent person feels like their life purpose is to help others they are in relationships with even when not having their own needs met nor if the other person is actually capable of putting their own work into improving their life choices. the relationships are very one sided and there is no real balance between each person having their own goals or purpose in life outside of the person they are tied to. do you feel that is an appropriate additional definition for codependency?

[@luthier870]

Hi Heidi! Could you make a video about how to deal with becoming codependent in relationships and how to setup healthy boundaries please? That’s something I really struggle with. I’m FA leaning avoidant.

[@elebea868]

I love your videos. I checked out your page and saw your e-courses. I'd totally get a course from you for anxiously attached. You are wonderful

[@ryanbarker3978]

Relevant tangential: Be very wary of professional relationships where expectations are not set from the front. No rules sounds amazing until you realize that also means there are zero boundaries.

[@kydoification]

Hi Heidi, is Codependency in this case being used as two people that are enmeshed and show characteristics of people that have dependent personality disorder? I found that the term codependency seems to be badly defined in general. Western society has definitely made us believe that even healthy dependence is bad. I’ve recently been reading some of Robin Dunbar’s work and his look at society from an evolutionary psychology perspective is fascinating. We are evolved to need each other. :) Thanks for the video.

[@heidipriebe1]

Codependency has definitely come to be a term that is defined in so many different ways! I tend to use the definition that codependents anonymous uses - will make a video explaining it further - I was also thinking I didn’t explain it too clearly here!

[@kydoification]

@@heidipriebe1Thanks for clarifying. :) The intersection between dependency and codependency and attachment is one I’m trying to untangle myself. I suspect it may take a while. ;)

[@shiny_x3]

I think there is a lot of overlap but my understanding is that enmeshment is about boundaries and not being differentiated whereas codependence is about controlling other people to control your own state. Codependence is a learned response to unhealthy family relationships that often involve addiction and chaos. Enmeshment arises when boundaries are not modeled or allowed. Maybe a simple way to describe it is that enmeshment is "I feel responsible for your happiness and that I have no right to my own life or decisions" which involves a lot of guilt and confusion, and codependence is "I sacrificed my needs to help you, so you should now meet my needs", which involves a lot of anger, blame, resentment and feeling like a victim. They can definitely co-occur and I think codependence maybe always involves some degree of enmeshment, but I think you can also have enmeshment in families that are not codependent. To some extent different cultures are more enmeshed (less emphasis on being an individual) than others. I think codependence is a two-way thing where both people are trying to get their needs met through the other and end up arguing about who is the bigger victim, but with enmeshment, a child can grow up and become very competent at meeting their own needs but still feel endlessly guilty that they aren't meeting their parents expectations, and in that case, they aren't trying to control their parents or get their needs met through their parents, they just don't know how to set that boundary even internally.

[@superbettynow]

@@shiny_x3 Thank you so much for this very helpful comment. I've been trying to get my head around co-dependence, vacillating between thinking i am and I am not codependent. By your definition here I see that I have more issues with enmeshment but also definitely co-dependence in some situations/relationships. Much to thinking about...

[@liliana.6053]

A good example I've heard of this is the idea of a disabled person dating a non disabled one. Think of someone who's blind for example. It's obvious that they are going to depend on their partner even with very basic needs, and to say that it's unhealthy is to say that people with disabilities should meticulously weight their disabilities and only date people who are equally disabled.

[@jackienutima3156]

This is super helpful! Thank you for breaking down the difference. You're amazing! 😊

[@felisaferreira5179]

Want to know what I think? That you are very smart and all your videos are helpful, please make more! Hahaha. Best wishes

[@sonyaparkin7841]

I think this is super important!! 👍

[@hi29189]

You give the best examples!

[@rsamuels6969]

Just found your videos- they are amazing! I loved this one - helped to clear up a lot for me as an FA. Question- I dated someone who depended on me for self esteem- excessively wanted me to compliment him- it was totally uncomfortable for me. I see now he was depending on me to meet that need for him. What would be a good way to let someone know that that is a need they are responsible for meeting? I of course would compliment him physically when I saw him in person- but he would send me pictures of himself almost daily which was awkward. He had recently lost 100 pounds so I could see he wanted that validation but it was overwhelming for me.l to deal with daily. Would love to know what would be a good way to redirect someone to learning to meet some needs for themself?

[@stacielivinthedream8510]

I recently went through this without his weight loss. Just a constant need for validation on how wonderful he was- daily! If I didn't constantly compliment him he got moody and began to put me down. Off topic, he started gaslighting me while laughing at the traumas I became vulnerable enough to share with him!!! I excited immediately! I had enough to know it was time to go!

[@rsamuels6969]

@@stacielivinthedream8510 ooh interesting! I guess as a recovering codependent I didn’t see leaving as an option 😅 ur totally right- it is pretty unhealthy. I guess in retrospect I would’ve had the conversation with him that it made me uncomfortable- and if he didn’t respect that boundary then it would’ve been a deal breaker for me. Oddly enough I did try to start a conversation about the constant pictures (maybe I could’ve been a bit nicer but as an FA I didn’t have boundaries until I kinda got pushed to the edge) and he totally got moody and stopped talking to me! I guess the problem solved itself!

[@rsamuels6969]

@@stacielivinthedream8510 and I’m so sorry about the gaslighting and laughing at you. No one deserves that and I’m glad to hear you left!

[@stacielivinthedream8510]

@@rsamuels6969 oh yes! Always leave if it's abuse and that Is Abuse!!! This one was a true Psychopath! He sat there smiling without any words for about 10 minutes as I fearfully yet powerfully asked him to speak and why was he smiling so huge! Scary! I'm lucky to be alive actually!

[@rsamuels6969]

@@stacielivinthedream8510 oh my goodness, that’s so scary! And wow I think as an FA it’s hard for me to recognize abuse 😔I’m learning more and more everyday- thank you so much for sharing your experience- I truly learned SO much!

[@indiasurgeon1487]

Thank you so much.

[@cathyospinaaa]

What about the take on codependency as written in codependent no more... What word would you coin on that situation. Where it's not so much dependant on the "broken" parent where one needed to caretake so you create the pattern or are triggered at "saving" or helping others...

[@ThatsWhat-She.]

Emphasis on "Most" of us (have numerous caring supportive people in our lives) because in NO WAY does that unberella statement apply to every individual..

[@pvrohanraj]

Vivid explanation, thank you for the video

[@michaellakyjonkova8495]

Fantastic video, thank you! Could you recommend a book on interdependante relationships?

[@Zahra.alturabi]

Beautiful video thank you !

[@Ivan23966]

Thanks for the video!

[@rezzieggg]

Thank you for this video, it was so so helpful

[@NS-815]

Wonderfully explained 👏

[@SensemakingMartin]

Great video. Very clearly explained and systematised :)

[@damodaraomalley3974]

God bless

[@pugninja7037]

How does that work if a person is a high fe user, I understand this isn't mbti.. As a entp..is it looking at personal values?

[@SK-lj1ql]

Explicit agreement

[@Cowface]

If you have alternate strategies to meet your own needs if your partner is unavailable to meet them, can you really be considered dependent on them?

[@fatatabata]

Personally, I feel that what you are describing is a very flexible, mature, adult way of living, provided that clear boundaries are set within the couple. For ex if the couple agreed on monogamous partnership, having a sexual affair is not ok. I would probably say that it all depends on the type of needs and the way we WANT other people (or our partner) to meet. It's an complex question I think... I think that ATTENDING TO ONESELF is the key

[@kburns2470]

Not to do with the general topic of the video, but it will never stop hurting my heart to hear people refer to "sex work" as though that is a legitimate, healthy concept and not something that goes against everything that is wonderful and beautiful about sex and what should be happening between people engaging in it.

[@garynaccarato4606]

Codependence in some sense is basically somebody needs you more then you need them and that the other person just becomes a drain and contributes nothing.

[@theinternaut1991]

Comparing relationships to a job is silly and falls short in the majority of the video in my opinion

[@nj.7325]

I think its good for people who are codependent because it shows 1. People can meet your needs and it doesn't have to only be one person, others could potentially too. And 2. It's an agreement based on mutuality. I think those were the things targeted by the analogies.

[@gabucho3869]

Zoink Never Clear

[@trafficcontrol2420]

I read "partners" as "parents."

[@richardgulan784]

What about counter dependent

[@live.life.secure.coaching]

Counter dependence usually goes hand in hand with fearful avoidant and dismissive avoidant attachments. It is when someone doesn't believe they need anyone to meet their needs and blatantly refuses to allow others to meet their needs. That's why avoidants keep everyone at arm's length and turn everyone down when others offer to help them. They believe they are the only ones who can and should meet their own needs and they also see having needs as off-putting and weak. They don't see how many needs they have because they view themselves as strong and able to handle everything on their own. They also don't want to be indebted to anyone and have a fear that if they allow someone to meet their needs, that means they will owe someone something in the future because to them, relationships are transactional

[@ArzuPajotte]

why did you take your nose piercing off ? :)

[@vt6spd]

I didn't know any of this until she left me... ❤️‍🩹