Could Eggman Beat Bowser from Mario (Death Battle Analysis)

[@Tyrecordslol]

Dont Forget to MINE that Bell 🔔 to be notified when i upload‼️

[@bayanbokhari4205]

Yessir

[@YoshiyaAtPlay]

Only if you CRAFT that subscribe button

[@AbóboraPrime_CLT]

Please add Caption 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@Teamsonic229]

YESSIR

[@hash_hacks3356]

plz responed to me

[@MarkiplierMeatMuncher8]

here before he notices "Eggaman" and title gets changed

[@thedarknessinthelight9824]

Ayyy lemme join

[@aktonio1710]

Let me join

[@feldbauerrose]

same

[@jordanslocum3903]

here too lol

[@gamescombosandpowerups876]

Lemme join

[@mattr.8470]

Infinite showing up, doing one thing cool, and getting clapped right after is one of the most game accurate things Death Battle has ever done.

[@thatonesonicfanalsoenthusi4049]

Fun fact: He also has the fastest "DeFeAt" in death battle history edit: i did not expecting adding death instead of defeat would cause ww3 in the replies 😭

[@A_literal_supernova]

@@thatonesonicfanalsoenthusi4049Not surprised if its true

[@anti.bctards7376]

@@thatonesonicfanalsoenthusi4049 He didn’t die. He left after getting pummeled just like in Forces. Typical balrog unable to read.

[@anti.bctards7376]

@@thatonesonicfanalsoenthusi4049He didn’t die. Balrog.

[@thatonesonicfanalsoenthusi4049]

@@anti.bctards7376 banished defeated same thing whats ur point

[@DamashiTheKaotic]

Something both you a death battle didn't bring up is that Eggman keeps a memorial garage full of refurbished mechs from past defeats, meaning Sage would have access to all of Eggman's past mechs simultaneously, which more than counters Bowser being able to use alot of his techniques without external sources.

[@lukedeakin7124]

They'd still have to call it in. The "Bowser doesn't need external sources" is just that he can immediately start throwing hands and take down Eggman, and most of those mechs aren't doing anything, especially considering that they addressed the higher end stuff like Time Eater.

[@otherguy___4293]

Transmutation Magic.

[@nehen2225]

@@otherguy___4293 Negated by the phantom ruby as stated in the video

[@notarobber5387]

@@DamashiTheKaotic Time eater could also drag other mechs throughout time and possibly his alternate dimension self Eggman nega and his younger self to pilot the mechs as well. This wouldn't be considered outside help since they are part of the Eggman empire. Eggman nega having worked with Eggman multiple times. He can even switch mechs with his egg pods very easily even against super Sonic. We see this all throughout the series, notably in Sonic 3 and Knuckles final boss. In the Sonic unleashed opening, and the Sonic advance series.

[@notarobber5387]

@@otherguy___4293 Eggman's Egg mobile resists transmutation. He plugs the egg mobile into other mechs like time eater and the egg wizard. Metal overlord resists being turned into a ring by chaotix recital, all bosses in Sonic heroes resist chaotix recital which turns enemies into rings. Most of Eggmans mechs and his egg pod resist ring time which turns enemies into rings. The chaos emeralds, master emeralds and sol emeralds all resist against transmutation and can remove the effects of the metal virus. Can also extend this aura outwards as shown when Sonic transforms into super Sonic and completely removes the metal virus around him. Chaos emeralds also resist cyber corruption which turns your body, mind, soul, and concept into digital information and stores it in cyberspace. The egg salamander uses the energy of the sol emeralds which resist transmutation. The phantom ruby is unaffected by the cube wispon which turns enemies into cubes. In the egg fields Eggman can undo any transmutation done just by thinking about it, as shown when he can turns the chaos emeralds into objects like tiaras and microphones. As well as turning multiple buildings into perfect chaos which are real and can fight with super Sonic. Phantom ruby also instantly transforms metal sonic into giga metal creating metal out of nothing, as well as transforming the hard boiled heavies. Time eater is an incorporeal being not made up of matter so I doubt transmutation would work on it. I haven't seen any transmutation Bowser has that works on things not made up of matter. All of Bowser, Kamek, and the Magikoopas transmutation magic has a projectile speed. Eggman has his own transmutation stuff not named the metal virus like the camera from Sonic rivals which can turn the master emerald and Erazor djinn into cards and locking them in stasis while being able to use their abilities, he was planning on turning the entire world into a card.

[@Broly-h6k]

“What is up my fellow miners” The perfect way to start Minecraft video

[@blackslider866]

Domain Expansion: Chris Hansen

[@norlidawatimohdnoor5867]

W

[@Kingzillarex_edits]

Bowser and Eggman are fighting each other until Curious George appears...

[@bepbobbap]

​@fungus-t9vwho let diddy make bots😭🙏

[@thegamingdragon490]

GET OU-

[@Abiyz]

Average human victim

[@GleamingRadiance]

real

[@tonfuentes307]

Luigi wins by doing absolutely nothing.

[@inksinkanimates8921]

Ty, you forgot to mention that Null Space isn't approachable scientifically

[@DaDroopster]

At the end of the day, those dads are having fun at the Olympics

[@SoraEatsRedTireYummyYummypt2]

Well not anymore...

[@RadioEggMelonNeighbor]

​@@SoraEatsRedTireYummyYummypt2why? Is it because the Olympics games no longer being made?

[@Ganza-sh1tp]

:(

[@Rudeus-r7r]

@@RadioEggMelonNeighbor Unfortunately, yes. They essentially got replaced by NFT's

[@Just_another_Taiream_fan]

@@Rudeus-r7r I still can't believe that we lost those gems for NFT's of all things

[@Nintendogamer22]

Death battle is just for entertainment and our amusement so even if they get a few details wrong we still have a blast watching these fights

[@righteous225]

Nobody has fun watching these idiots make stupid calculations and glaze

[@jestapath7373]

That being said, It's not like they are TRYING to make mistakes. Animation is obviously top-notch, but we still want a fair fight. Imagine if Goku never went super sayian versus superman--that would suck, no matter how good it might look. Because it could have been an even better spectacle and there would be less suspension of disbelief. This is still the biggest and maybe even only place to showcase these kinds of debates and battles, so inevitably it will taint any other discussion. "This guy won" in DB so he is definitely weaker. Most people in the casual and serious spheres will base their opinions on this.

[@animodev2099]

I guess, until I see my favorite lose

[@dudestup5186]

Super Neo Metal + scanned bio data could honestly solo bowsers army imo

[@st2k27]

Your everywhere

[@KirbyFlores-l6z]

Yes, they even said it in the death battle, Metal Sonic takes down Bowser's army

[@JsunAlphaDream]

Metal can’t copy items or souls. His copy doesn’t have much use this this matchup. Stop the glaze

[@TVmantitan779]

​@@JsunAlphaDream Metal can just copy the bio data of Bowser.

[@JsunAlphaDream]

@TVmantitan779 the only things worth copying is bowsers physical strength and durability. This doesn’t let him counter bowsers wish powers or fate manipulation.

[@Teamsonic229]

WHOS HYPED FOR SONIC MOVIE THREE!

[@Titanspeakerman562-c4d]

-Me- EVERYONE

[@Hedgehogspeedthesmilingcritter]

Me

[@bayanbokhari4205]

I'm hyped to see shadow

[@mr.trashbear8124]

@fungus-t9vI HATE YOU! IM GONNA FIND WHERE YOU LIVE AND DO SOME UNHOLY STUFF!

[@bayanbokhari4205]

@fungus-t9vsthu

[@jaydenthezoahking8473]

Thats deathbattles gimmick. Thats what they did with omniman vs bardock. They ignore/negelect certain instances (unless the combatants are Marvel with the exception of doomsday) to make people talk about it. The more they talk about it, the more popular they get.

[@st2k27]

Yea bardock should’ve won I still won’t forget that

[@Laz_music_crazy]

9:02 I could definitely be wrong about this but, Silver makes a remark in this scene and says “What’s wrong sonic?” Implying that he could not see gravity shifting and we were just seeing things from an altered Sonic’s perspective.

[@Right_Bumper]

"Sonic, you ok?"

[@CarvelStudio069]

Also a problem with Death Battle's argument about Kamek canceling Metal's power is that would require him to already know about it which they said that the characters have no prior knowledge

[@KirbyZilla]

Not really sense he is smart enough to know he can just use a ability detective spell to know his copy ability

[@Thatechoissoannoying]

No… when metal does it, kamek cancel, I don’t quite know Mario, but I think that’s how it is, and even then he’s smart enough to know

[@Magma-Idiot-2001]

​@@Thatechoissoannoyingwhile I don't know much about other games, in M&L games, Kamek can straight deactivate an ability of the bros.

[@axillaryclinical]

​@@ThatechoissoannoyingThat's not even possible

[@MinatotheGreenLantern]

It’s not so that Kamek requires primary knowledge of Metal’s abilities, it’s more like if Kamek sees Metal as a threat on the battlefield he’s going to do something about it. Metal Sonic is very in your face fighter while Kamek in comparison is more so a supporting fighter that usually stays at the battle buffing his allies (or Bowser) like a Mage in an RPG (funnily enough) so if he sees Metal doing something crazy on the field he wouldn’t have any reason to not cancel Metal Sonic’s powers

[@ReverbinB00mer-rc7te]

Addressing all the points made in this video: Sorcerer King Bowser: Yes, it’s true that he isn’t directly referred to as a “sorcerer king”, the way Death Battle uses this title is not a way to describe him as “The Best” rather, someone who happens to be a Sorcerer and a King. “Bowsers powers aren’t built in”: If you can notice the pattern here, it’s very clear that the only way these allies are helping him are through one method: Getting Bigger. Bowser has been shown multiple times to be capable of doing this with items, such as the Grand Stars and the Royal Sticker. He’s also been shown to do this on his own, such as in Mario Party 9 and Mario Party 10. He even survives on his own even as Dry Bowser without the use of Magical assistance like NSMB (as he later appears as a boss) and also Mario Party 10. And you’re taking “built in” way too literally. Built in is referred to as in having it on his person at all times, unlike Eggman, who would have to swap Mechs in order to actually access all of these powers. All these points about “not being built in” are flawed in the fact that Bowser always has these on his person. The point of not being built in was used to compare to how Eggman’s bowsers are separated across several different Mechs. They didn’t say “like a robot”, but rather, “he’s not even a robot”. Yoshi Star feat: The Fact is that, regardless, Yoshi created a Star. Even creating a Star that’s pretty small is still Star Level. Also keep in mind that Yoshi’s Island came out 12 whole years before Mario Galaxy did. Plus, those Stars shown when defeating a boss are visual effects, nothing more. “Yoshi’s been whooping Bowser, and therefore Bowser isn’t stronger”: Being Defeated isn’t always a matter of being stronger. You can clearly see that in most of Bowser’s defeats at the hands of Mario and his friends, it’s because he’s outsmarted and outlasted. Bowser is very clearly not being overpowered. If someone beat you up with a bunch of projectiles, I wouldn’t classify that person as stronger than you. Dark Bowser THAT bowser is a perfect DNA copy of the real Bowser. Therefore it’d only make sense he’d have his stats and abilities (he also is shown to have them). Bowser was still squaring up with Dark Bowser even with the Core still being there. Even after that, Dark Bowser became unstable, rather than being paralyzed. Wonder Flower VS Phantom Ruby The gimmick between these two items is that they mess with reality, comparing them to the CHAOS EMERALDS, and other powerful artifacts similarly enough doesn’t make sense as they’ve been shown to do more. The Grand Stars and similar objects make more sense of a comparison because those artifacts play a much more significant role in their cosmologies. While Shift and Alter do mean the same thing, there’s such a thing as multiple definitions for one word. Shift can mean move, which the Chaos Emeralds were doing to the continents. (Also, the point about the Chaos Emerald overpowering the Time Eater doesn’t make sense. Does you Colliding with a wall and not being able to break through it make you weaker than the wall? The Wall doesn’t have any AP at that current state.) Also, those Phantom Ruby Clones, clearly aren’t perfect. The fact that they could be one shot by CHARMY of all people. Also, Tails’ statement about the phantom Ruby is pretty clear. Under THE Phantom Ruby’s Control, a part of THEIR reality (as in the person under the influence), their perception. Also keep in mind that the Wonder Flower has been shown to manipulate time before, it’s in its effects. (Levels that show this specific method of time manipulation: Armads on the Roll, Valley Fulla Snootles, Sunbaked Desert Palace, The Final Test Wonder Gauntlet) Sonic’s Speed Restoring Time: The reason this happened is not because they could just do it naturally. It’s because they are the constant. They are the constant in that world, and revisiting those moments of time restores those moments because they were in them, and thus restored them back to natural time. Reality Manipulation would cancel out, it’s not one sided. Star Rod being shown in Post-Analysis further proves my point. Sage’s Technology Manipulation: Sage’s technology manipulation relies on the fact that those things she can manipulate are robots, or highly advanced technology like the Robots Eggman uses. The Chance Time boxes have been shown before to be magical and not just technology, and Kamek’s shuffled items without the use of these boxes before. Mostly cosmetic. We also don’t know how E. Gadd made the brush. So it’s disingenuous to say that Sage could guaranteed mess with it even though it uses Magic. You’re using the term technology way too vaguely for a specific instance. Also, no point in bringing up inventions that also exist when they pale in comparison to what’s been shown by Bowser’s army. Also, Bowser’s army HAS FREE WILL. Eggman’s “Exaggerations” (Which have been proved to be false numerous times before): Jeweled Scepter > Sol Emeralds and Chaos Emeralds (Didn’t Eggman still lose to a Super Sonic and Blaze combo despite the fact he had that?) Phantom Ruby > Master Emerald Mega Death Egg > Time Eater (Do I even need to explain this one? The Mega Death Egg didn’t even require super forms to beat it. While the Time Eater required the combined force of both Classic and Modern Sonic.) Shuffle Bowser’s Shuffle > Eggman’s Shuffle. Why, because Eggman’s shuffle is very specific with it’s items, unlike Bowser’s wide variety which messes with all items in the playing field. The precious stone brought up in IDW is just a cameo. Metal’s Bio Data: Yes, Super might’ve been able to replenish what was lost; but then Kamek could’ve just done it again. It’s a replenishment. Not a replenish + immunity. Fury Bowser Bowser wasn’t “trying to hurt his son” you clearly showed in the clip broadcasted that he was targeting Mario, and Junior got in the way. Speed Arguments Both have arguments for being Immeasurable? You can’t just use Death Battle’s example as the limit for Mario, then going past the episode to get Immeasurable speed for Sonic. No Point in bringing up Animation since it’s literally just for entertainment.

[@ReverbinB00mer-rc7te]

DB even brings up that both have arguments for being immeasurable, so it would cancel out.

[@ReverbinB00mer-rc7te]

And even after all that, various of the black boxes in the Death Battle mention points that you did; check them out. Regarding the Luma size, they have various sizes, and they even make up the galaxies in the universe, hence Rosalina’s statement. A lot of the galactic Mario feats have varying sizes. It isn’t limited to just one. To me, it seems you didn’t go as in depth as you did with Mario, despite the fact that you said that you “knew more about Mario than Sonic”, going strictly with Team Eggman on this one.

[@beambie9145]

Ok but Dr.Zomboss solos 🥱

[@ReverbinB00mer-rc7te]

“This writing is fire?”

[@MinatotheGreenLantern]

@@beambie9145 Lol true

[@NANOMACHINESSON23]

FAX BRO, 100% FAX. Now THESE are proper researches.

[@stevenanthony3644]

This man has been the true definition of a great scientist

[@MorrisPXG]

@@stevenanthony3644Eggman Would be Proud

[@ididitbecause]

This is off topic, but I love the Kirby poster in the back! I was able to recognize some characters such as Dark magician, Majin Vegeta and Cosmo

[@Tyrecordslol]

I bought it after playing Every Kirby game this year. I’m working on a Kirby video and will show you guys soon!

[@charlesbishop3170]

​@@Tyrecordslol which game is your favorite?

[@BeeboGaming27]

@@Tyrecordslol can you power scale the battle cat army vs bowser and or eggman? I feel the battle cats are stupidly busted but nobody power scales them.

[@melvingenao550]

​@@Tyrecordsloldespite debunks I agree with death battle outcome.

[@Chilllledits]

You’re a good tyrecords you always make my day better by watching your videos and you seem really fun to be around don’t give up and btw it would be nice if you started making long term vids like this or gaming just a recommendation bye 😁

[@mr.trashbear8124]

GET BACK TO WORK MR.SQUIDWARD!

[@KrustyKrabPizza-t4i]

Let’s all not forget Eggman, EGGMAN, The fat evil scientist with a bushy Lucious mustache, OUTRAN SONIC HIMSELF, some examples being Sonic 2 (16 bit and 8 bit) Sonic Triple Trouble, and so many more!! So in the end where Eggman was being sucked towards Dry Bones Bowser, Eggman should have been able to runaway, since when that man is in danger, he about to be more faster than Ultra Sonic and Full Ultra Instinct Goku plus the speed of Hyper and Super Sayian 1,2,and 3 Goku and Vegeta COMBINED.

[@alexandracardenas9621]

He also tanked 47 explosions when being defeated, and was STILL alive!

[@joshiboshi6878]

Half of the internet: WONDERFUL VIDEO Other half of the internet: EGGMAN GLAZING

[@BurgerMan-l9l]

Bruh what

[@_Bondrewd_-Mr.Black-Cube-Kun]

If you take everything what Eggman has in games and compare it to Bowsers belongs, then it might be actually Eggman overspamming him with mechs and etc winning the fight. I guess "glazing" approved?

[@Inpause]

@@_Bondrewd_-Mr.Black-Cube-Kunmario’s cosmology is far beyond

[@vTrunks]

W vid fellow miner🔥🔥

[@uuuuuuuuuuuu5tiu218]

The Drink

[@edsoncastillo7357]

THEY CALL HIM THE WHAT?!?!? 🔥🔥🔥🗣🗣🗣📣📣📣🗣🗣🗣📣📣📣🔥🔥🔥

[@Andrew-w8c7x]

​@@edsoncastillo7357When i was a kid

[@edsoncastillo7357]

@@Andrew-w8c7x THEY CALLED ME THE JUICE BOX! ‼️‼️‼️🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️📣📣📣‼️‼️‼️📣📣📣🔥🔥🔥

[@Andrew-w8c7x]

@@edsoncastillo7357 BUT NOW I'M THE DRINK 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥

[@MinatotheGreenLantern]

I’m glad you were being respectful towards Death Battle in this video compared to a lot of other debunks, while don’t agree with EVERYTHING you said, you did bring up some decent points here and there so I’ll give you that, good video.

[@GOJO-SATORU00]

It was obvious, death battle has been kinda flunking it lately

[@MinatotheGreenLantern]

@ Eh

[@ASNS117Zero]

Death Battle doesn't deserve respect. The people who make the animations they use *do* deserve respect, but they're commissioned artists. DB itself is an absolutely toxic hack job of a show that should have been canceled years ago.

[@GOJO-SATORU00]

@ASNS117Zero I don't think it should be canceled but still your right mostly

[@MinatotheGreenLantern]

@ How are they toxic?

[@flaminpirates]

6:20 yoshi in literally ALL OF THOSE FIGHTS needs to use outside objects, death battle was talking about physical strength, which bowser is definitely strong then yoshi

[@axillaryclinical]

He literally sent back his own attack

[@flaminpirates]

@@axillaryclinical so yoshi used BOWSERS attack to damage BOWSER? this jsut proves my point.

[@axillaryclinical]

@@flaminpirates If he's able to send back his own attack mind you This isn't even the strongest version of Yoshi This is basically the yoshi at his Weakest Meanwhile this version of Bowser lost to him

[@axillaryclinical]

@@flaminpirates This was a stronger version of him that had all that power up and he's still lost to him

[@flaminpirates]

@@axillaryclinical i said physical strength.

[@soulevans7588]

they like to say that Mario characters have all their powerups in their back pocket for some reason

[@Pizzapokey]

Shift: Usually refers to a slight change in position, direction, or emphasis, often with a sense of movement or transition. Alter: Indicates a broader change, potentially more significant, to something's form, appearance, or nature.

[@AntError_exist]

however Reality Warping, Altering and Shifting kinda still comes to same door.

[@warlock9708]

This is just not true, wrong definition lol

[@Pizzapokey]

@@warlock9708 hey say that to gogogle not me

[@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.]

This doesnt matter wether its correct or not because DB uses the word to mean alter and in that context, as tyrecords showed, they meant alter reality

[@-AIWillRule]

@@Pizzapokey the chaos emeralds have been stated to alter reality and grant wishes

[@JahcirJones]

What you guys need to remember is eggman stole the master emerald in the sonic 2 movie. Making him unstoppable with psychic powers but then knuckles punched him in the stomach, but thats because knuckles has charged up energy

[@floppa2504]

“If you put a mark on the child there won’t be a place where you can hide from me” Dam bro

[@The-winter-soldier-127]

Not going to lie the animation was awesome in my opinion

[@ultra1616]

by MORØ! very amazing

[@Nahimnotracist]

He's not saying the animation is bad

[@Hugo-yz1vb]

The problem is not that the fight was bad, in fact, it's the best episode by far, it's just inaccurate

[@Glenroy64]

@fungus-t9vYou need to be arrested

[@TrixyTrixter]

Yes, the animation is good. Its the facts they provide that aren't.

[@WeGettinHype]

8:46 The wonder flower is capable of altering time itself. In one of the levels, the wonder flower revives the corpse of a dragon for the player to ride on.

[@-AIWillRule]

@@WeGettinHype The chaos emeralds are also capable of altering reality. You can't use them as a. Advantage in a fight if both can do it.

[@rhysjonsmusic]

So one of Bowsers strongest power ups is a chaos emerald from Wish?

[@WeGettinHype]

@-AIWillRule I'm aware that the chaos emeralds can do this as well. The claim Ty made about the wonder flower only manipulating space isn't true as it's been shown to also manipulate time in game.

[@sethwaldron7508]

@@rhysjonsmusic And the dream stone, which is every chaos emerald across the infinite multiverse

[@-AIWillRule]

@@WeGettinHype I agree, however they still cancelled our is my point

[@samueltrusik3251]

Sage HACKS technology. She would not be able to control something non-electronic.

[@gamers-xh3uc]

are the titans electronic? No and that’s not how it works you seen super cyber sonic sage can just make stuff hackable stuff that is technology even biological systems could be hackable but that’s debatable sonic pretty much let it happen

[@01croc]

This is probably the best (and most civil) debunk I've found for this episode yet! Great job man. Tho I do have a few points: 1. When they say the "Bowser is all natural" bit, I don't think they meant that literally ALL his best feats and powers were always on him, but just that compared to Eggman who needs at least 1 or 2 machines to stay in the fight Bowser can just spawn in and already be a Blackhole-tanking reality-warping menace. Sure he needs items like Eggman to reach his full potential, but his power baseline is MUCH higher than a majority of Eggman's mechs and especially the man himself. Also while he DID need the vacuum fruit initially to gain his SUCC, he kept that power even after being knocked out many times in the game, suggesting that it is now a permanent base ability for him. 2. Yes the cosmic scaling of Mario can get wonky, especially if you mainly focus on the Mario Galaxy games. HOWEVER, as they've noted to in the episode's black boxes and offtext, by the more recent Mario games (Odyssey, Brothership, etc.) the verse's celestial objects are a lot more comparable to our own and the characters do exhibit stellar feats with them, this is not already including the ridiculous scaling given by the RPG games that eclipse these feats. Also while the Yoshi Constellation feat may seem goofy, you yourself said Yoshi can defeat Bowser. Considering that Bowser has survived a supernova and a Black Hole, Yoshi would need a somewhat comparable level of power to beat him, giving more credibility to the constellation feat. More importantly, even though Yoshi CAN beat bowser it doesn't mean Bowser doesn't scale to and above Yoshi, especially when you look at his other feats and him constantly clashing with characters who should be stronger than Yoshi (Mario, Luigi, etc.) in other games. 3. Kamek is Bowser's best Magician, but Bowser's own Magic is still very powerful, especially when he has a star on him. Not to mention some of the stuff you pointed out that Kamek and his minions does for Bowser, Bowser has also done on his own like make himself bigger or buff allies. You also don't really talk about King Boo at all...which is probably the safest thing since his scaling can get crazy and his magic is still a powerful tool as well. 4. They did NOT say Eggman's army had no way to revert from being transformed into shit, they said they had no RELIABLE way back. Which is to say that unless the Eggman army goes out of its way to use its powerful reality-warping tech and items to turn their minions back into machines, they won't EASILY get those machines back. Meanwhile not only can Bowser and Kamek freely transform people, but there's an entire TROOP of these fuckers spamming alakazam and other magic bullshit. That may not seem scary, but considering that we now know Bowser's army can number well into the 90 Millions (Gotten from Brothership, also in one of their black boxes) let's just say there are gonna be a lot of potential frogs. 5. Bowser's army uses technology, obviously. But as far as we know Sage can only possess highly advanced machines that have computers, some sort of mainframe, or at least something on the sci-fi end. But the majority of technology that Bowser's gang uses is not only super rustic, but relies moreso on MAGIC than anything actually sci-fi related. As of right now there just isn't enough evidence to reasonably suggest Sage can possess a majority of their technology, this would also include the pipes (although that was a funny example to bring up lol). If someone reads this and has evidence to suggest otherwise, please let me know. Otherwise, you're basically saying Sage can possess anything considered technology, including a goddamn walking stick XD. 6. They compared the Wonder Flower to the Phantom Ruby because they were saving the Chaos/Master Emeralds for comparing them to the Power/Grand Stars, since they considered them to be the "prized possessions" of both combatants. I'll agree they omega nerfed the Phantom Ruby and Infinite tho...however I personally don't mind considering the hilarious outcome. 7. The Mario speed feat is definitely eclipsed by basically ANYTHING the Sonic cast has done, especially recently. However, and this is also the reason Speed was NOT a winning category here, they state in a Black Box that both Bowser and Eggman have statements and feats that can give them immeasurable and even infallible speeds. For Bowser (and his army strangely enough) this mainly comes from that crazy RPG scaling I mentioned before. SInce this was such a heavily, and honestly downright diabolical debate in the community, I think they just decided to forego it by saying since both can theoretically reach immeasurable. 8. Sonic Shuffle is canon but Eggman needs to use one of his machines to cause the shuffling of items among the Sonic cast and also mess with their game. This once again goes back to DB's point that Eggman CAN do crazy things, but only across various mechs and machines, whereas someone like Kamek can just wave his wand at any time. Ok that was a lot, but at the end of it all it was still a great debunk. I still side with Bowser, but this is one of the most debatable matchups they've done in a long time so I can still easily imagine either side winning depending on the scaling given to either.

[@truegamer7760]

Still sucks.

[@MinatotheGreenLantern]

@@truegamer7760 Ok bruh

[@AtomicDaSloth]

I think Eggman HIMSELF loses to base Bowser, because Eggman doesn't have a ton of feats without robots helping him

[@king-sunami]

Holy yap 💀

[@01croc]

@@king-sunami You right, im ngl. I'm hella nerdy for this shit😞

[@TheGotreck]

Sage is such a game changer, I disagreed with death battle result just because of her presence alone. Basically, as long as there is a possibility of victory, the side with Sage WILL find it, and as long as eggman ego don't get in the way, she will use it. Not only that, but her scale using the Supreme Mecha is insane, and she was responsible for blocking attacks from "The End" without it... She is a monster... Sage and Metal with the emeralds by themselves could defeat the entire Bowser army.

[@JsunAlphaDream]

He can wish them both away with the dream stone, star rod or sundream stone

[@TheGotreck]

@@JsunAlphaDream Metal Sonic blitz the usage of all these three as planned by Sage and they win. The chance of this happening can be infinitly close to 0, if it's not 0 it will happen because of Sage. Metal Sonic or Sage steal one of those itens and they win. Can also happen. If you can think of any way for Metal Sonic and Sage to counter something, they will counter that something, because of Sage capability to predict outcomes.

[@JsunAlphaDream]

@ yet she believed there was 0 way to beat the titans even when super sonic was taken into account. She CAN be proven wrong. Bowser has immeasurable speed (pure hearts) with access to infinite pocket dimensions to hide in, (power stars, dream stone) able to clone himself infinitely (dream stone, double cherry, basic magic) with fate manipulation (pure hearts, his being a star child) and the ability to take away and swallow items (vacuum block, chance time) he has everything needed to resist Metal Sonic’s assault with sages intelligence

[@TheGotreck]

@@JsunAlphaDream Metal Sonic copy everything that bowser can do and do better, steal all his itens and win instantly. Better yet, Metal Sonic downloads all the data SAGE predictions get, nullify Kamek, steal Bowser itens or just seal his ability to acess his own dimension and instantly win. If Metal and Sage aren't trown at the battle instantly(a situation where Sage would have no time to run predictions), they win by virtue of how HAX both of them are and how much the fact that one is a IA and the other is a Robot with the ability to replicate any feat made by a bio life form.

[@JsunAlphaDream]

@ wrong, Metal Sonic cannot copy items or souls. I doubt he can copy bowsers magic since it’s not apart of him. And no he cannot steal bowsers items since he is one of Eggmans creations that has never been shown to bypass invincibility. You’re whole argument is how they can formulate a plan and win instantly but now you’re backpedaling saying they need time to process everything when bowser can just wish them away. Try again. And it’s “Ai” not “iA”

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

I'd argue Sage can't hijack non-digital technology, but even that is a minor issue compared to the downplaying of the sonic franchise's myriad magical stones.

[@NeonBlaceplalon]

Not saying it's a bad video but i'm pretty sure what they were implying when they said bowsers army had free will was that they could adapt to situations with relative ease like a single Goomba can adapt to dozens of situations but for the Badniks even under sage's control they are still very limited in what they could do plus Eggman doesn't really make tobots that cover for other robots weak points also might i mention according to minion quest side mode there are some minions who have a specialty in destroying mechanical stuff ex: Broozers, so Bowser did have counters

[@NebulaSon]

Another thing they forgot about was the Egg Bishop and Egg magician. These two can just restore any transmutation, heal robots or get the chaos emeralds and phantom ruby back if stolen by magic.

[@Redknight-i3b]

I think why they not said about that two is mind help Dr eggman win so they not said about it

[@Superstar5_]

I think it has to do with budget, and what’s stopping them from being turned into Stone or Frogs?

[@NebulaSon]

@Superstar5_ The Chaos Emeralds. Also the fact that that Dr Eggman can also turn the Koopas into rings.

[@Superstar5_]

@@NebulaSon How so? Besides Bowser could reverse the transformation with either the Star Rod or Kamek.

[@NebulaSon]

@Superstar5_ With Ring Time. Also Dr Eggman can also reverse transmutation with Chaos Control or with the Egg Bishop and the Egg Magician.

[@LowksRico]

I’ve been waiting for this for so long🥹

[@glitch-xega]

Finally, a good respectful debunk of this episode. Bringing up good points, that don't rely on shaky sources. I don't agree with everything you said, but neither the less, great video. One thing I will say, based off the blogs Death Battle does include everything, but because of budget and other reasons, they can't show everything. Like the Titans, Mecha Sonic Mk2, and The Shadow Androids.

[@XavierWeirdWorld]

Looks like I was wrong 0:11 lol

[@thedragogod9534]

Cmon dawg

[@MuiDuong-g2w]

Bros just a chill guy

[@Staryoshi_The_Seraphim_Spider]

There's a few mistakes in this analysis/response, but all around, it was a good video. Thanks for the drop.

[@SkylerRyuLoken]

A small thing that I have to point out is, The phantom Ruby was stated by the game itself to be stronger, or have the ability to get stronger than the master Emerald itself, which is much much much stronger than the chaos emeralds, also yes, the phantom Ruby can alter reality itself using perception as a side, also, again, by the game itself, its power is said to be boundless/endless

[@Denishabani]

Just to know how big of a speed blitz is immeasurable speed..... You get speed blitz so bad that both your present, future and past self get speed blitz.

[@SaddieMoon]

15:02 That’s not it works though. Sage needs to have coding she can manipulate to control. She can’t just control machinery with no coding.

[@thetrench8486]

Exactly!!! Dude thinks she can control a pipe just cause its kinda tech? But its not the kind she can use

[@Jdudec367]

Exactly, that logic is no better then Kamek stopping any ability Metal Sonic has.

[@Luisp123_luckbutter21]

we can at least all agree that the animation was the best one death battle has put out

[@bomberhood7234]

Oh 100% even though I still think that Eggman can win that animation along with the soundtrack was easily the best in the entire series! You can tell that it was made by people who were very passionate about both franchises.

[@ROBOTNIK-24]

@@bomberhood7234bruh he’s lost to a hedgehog with magical powers so he’s probably going to loose to a fire breathing turtle with magical powers as well. But who knows it’s just a Theory … A Game!… oh wait. ( I like both eggman and bowser)

[@bomberhood7234]

@@ROBOTNIK-24 Eggman could beaten bowser because bowser always loses to a fat man with a mustache (I’m joking).

[@bomberhood7234]

@@ROBOTNIK-24 Bowser was probably going to lose because he can’t beat a fat man with a mustache (I’m joking).

[@bomberhood7234]

@@ROBOTNIK-24 Bowser was probably going to lose because bowser loses to a man with a mustache all the time (I’m joking)

[@NoHandle44]

4:36 While I agree that the galaxies aren't nearly as big as regular galaxies, you could just chalk that up to gameplay. The devs couldn't make an actual life sized galaxy for you to run around in. So the scale is visually lower, but in canon, might be actual galaxies. However, death battle has indeed scaled universes before. Like with how DBS' universe is 7 times bigger than Salior Moon's universe in their Beerus vs Galaxia video. So I wouldn't be suprised if the Mario Universe is just small. And the "galaxies" we see just represent just how small it is.

[@HollowThePumpkin]

This is a MASSIVE W 🔥 Peak content as always!

[@imthecoolest3884]

You literally showed a scan of Bowser clawing his way through space and time thats also immeasurable speed and hes fought culex whos beyond space and time

[@Blue_Punch_Buggy224]

Speed doesn’t matter IMO, since both scale to that (Eggman physically unironically enough)

[@imthecoolest3884]

@Linear_Line_423 yeah eggman is faster than he's giving credit for

[@randomperson-real]

eggman is still faster since he kept up with super sonic in the advanced games

[@imthecoolest3884]

@randomperson-real that doesnt matter since both have Both Bowser and eggman has immeasurable speed.

[@Christian-fn4cw]

@@imthecoolest3884Sonic characters are far more consistent speed wise. You could name far more feats for sonic characters. Meaning they’re faster

[@PapyrusStrocityVA]

4:14 just wanted to call this out, Lumas are baby stars, they're entire purpose is to grow up and become stars or planets- i havent played galaxy in a minute, but i remember that part for sure. star bits just kinda speed up the process

[@beamzzzhit7006]

So, the main thing I took away is that bowser can’t manipulate space-time. Didn’t you include the scene from yoshi’s story directly saying “bowser, warping through space and time”? Keep in mind that was base bowser, imagine what wonder or dreamy bowser could do if base bowser can warp space time.

[@chibuezeonianwa5473]

First, warping through space and time implies he's not manipulating, but rather warping them, which are two distinct actions. Second, space and time are not the same as spacetime, so your point remains invalid.

[@M4x_P0w3r]

@@chibuezeonianwa5473 What's the difference between warping and manipulating? And what's the difference between space and time and spacetime?

[@chibuezeonianwa5473]

@@M4x_P0w3r The difference between warping and manipulating is that warping refers to twisting or bending spacetime. For example, our Sun warps spacetime. Would you consider that as manipulating spacetime? While manipulating implies controlling it. For example, creating timelines that didn't exist before. Spacetime refers to the fourth dimension, while space and time refer to the whole of space and time.

[@M4x_P0w3r]

@@chibuezeonianwa5473 Gravity literally manipulates spacetime, it alters it from what it otherwise would be, so yeah, the Sun manipulates space time, just like any other celestial body to higher or lower degree. Not only that, but gravity can in fact destroy spacetime itself, for instance through a phenomenon called "the wave of death", hypothesized by mathematician Roger Penrose. Alteration and destruction, I think that qualifies for manipulation. Also, isn't the fourth dimension literally the concept of space (the three dimensions) applied to the dimension of time? In that sense, spacetime and "the whole of space and time" are the same thing.

[@M4x_P0w3r]

@@chibuezeonianwa5473 Gravity literally manipulates spacetime, it alters it from what it otherwise would be, so yeah, the Sun manipulates space time, just like any other celestial body to higher or lower degree. Not only that, but gravity can in fact destroy spacetime itself, for instance through a phenomenon called "the wave of death", hypothesized by mathematician Roger Penrose. Alteration and destruction, I think that qualifies for manipulation. Also, isn't the fourth dimension literally the concept of space (the three dimensions) applied to the dimension of time? In that sense, spacetime and "the whole of space and time" are the same thing.

[@st2k27]

5:52 I agree with your point but I feel like the stars that pop out I think they are just like a effect when jumping on their head (correct me if I’m wrong)

[@master_of_krynn]

a little after 5:52 but yeah, I also always took them as effects but they seem consistent, in mario wii too, which i never noticed so he has a point here

[@st2k27]

@ so they are buffed by kamek and when hit the stars appear But in the tower bosses none of the koopalings are powered by kamek and they still show stars which is most likely an effect used in the game

[@master_of_krynn]

@@st2k27 yeah, and in Wii it def just looks like buffing the stage. Could go either way, I suppose

[@st2k27]

@ and i don’t know why he even included new super Mario bros U koopalings since they weren’t buffed by kamek only boom boom was

[@st2k27]

@ but i do agree with Tyrecordslol point on bowser being powered by artifacts

[@Omrane-s4x]

Really good video you did there.I didn't got the feeling that you're let something out,every problem I had with this death battle got mentioned with is really good 👍

[@Johan_4587]

I know no one will actually read all of this, just some thoughts. 1.) Wonder Flower can actually affect time, there are multiple wonder effects that both slow down time and speed it up. 2.) Them talking about Bowser's powers being built in is referring to them being natural, once he gains a power he can use it whenever. Once Bowser got the vacuum mushroom, he now has the ability to inhale torrents of wind. It was given to him yes, but it has become a second nature power he has. We know this to be true because he still uses that ability in Dream Team to absorb the Dream Stone. Also, you mostly go over the items that aren't even considered for the natural powers, but rather the prized items/trump cards section. Bowser has other powers that don't rely on these items. Like his transmutation magic, which is something he could do since the first game he's appeared in, or his manipulation of the elements like lightning, fire, earth, his telekinesis, being able to hurl meteors he conjures in the Galaxy games, he could create whole castles from nothing by warping reality, glossed over Bowser turning Yoshi's island into a literal storybook with those same reality warping powers as a literal BABY. Like you can't just gloss over these by talking about the powered-up forms that go into the trump cards/prized items category. Bowser has a whole slew of powers built in, not just when he uses these items. The whole point they were making was that Bowser could easily swap between most of his powers while Eggman had to use different inventions. 3.) Death Battle never said Sage wouldn't be able to use her technopathy at all, just not against Bowser's army. She used her technopathy multiple times in the actual fight, sending badniks against Fury Bowser and even being the one to set up the Death Egg. 4.) Yes, Eggman had many items that could restore his army from being transmuted, but as they stated in the analysis, Kamek had the ability to steal the Chaos Emeralds just as he did with the Phantom Ruby. They made it look like Chance Time, which is more of a funny moment than an actual thing they had to do to steal it. They could have stolen it in any way, and they also had the ability to steal the Chaos Emeralds and any other items. 5.) Your definition of technologies is correct, however is irrelevant when talking about Sage. Sage is made of data and has an intertwined existence with Cyber Space, Cyber Space being a digitally based dimension. She was designed to have control over numerous digital networks, which is how Eggman was able to give control of his entire army to her. Her reign of control is over machines and digital networks . . Gee, almost like she can only control the electronic technologies. Given how her existence is literally digital, assuming that she can control technologies that don't rely on electronic technology or have any digital networks when she's not shown to be able to do so is quite the statement. 6.) Also, a counterpoint to the part you said that Yoshi being able to punt Raphael the Raven into a constellation not being as impressive as it would sound because in the Super Mario Galaxy games the Planets, Stars, and Galaxies are much smaller can be explained. That explanation being gameplay. Obviously, we won't be exploring anything to scale, because if we did, we'd still be playing the first Galaxy to this day. Remember, using the Grand Star, Bowser created another of these "Small Galaxies" which still turned into a Black Hole big enough to destroy the entire UNIVERSE. The sizes of these celestial bodies are small for gameplay reasons, but even if they were small in canon, they would still be just as powerful as the real thing. Consider the gravity on the super small planets, considering there is any semblance of gravity to actually be able to more or less walk like normal (a little light gravity, like the moon) would mean that the tiny planets are ultra dense and have similar MASS to a real planet. Remember, the size itself doesn't matter, it is the mass of a celestial body that determines how powerful it really is. Keep in mind, that Universe ending Black Hole was made when a SINGLE Grand Star was taken away from powering Bowser's Galaxy, Bowser still has access to multiple Grand Stars and EVEN MORE Power Stars. 7.) Again, the whole "Chance Time" thing was just a show they put on for a classic Death Battle rubbing salt in the wound moment. Kamek could have straight up just stolen the Phantom Ruby, with or without Chance Time. The Sonic Shuffle items not being used is a bit of an oversight though in that situation, unless it isn't canon. Again though, Kamek could've done the same thing with a different move. They just did it in the animation for the entertainment factor. 8.) Metal Sonic, yes, he can replenish any stolen or sealed abilities when he turns super. However, when he does turn super, Kamek is still in the fight. Even if Metal Sonic could replenish his abilities at any moment using the Chaos Emeralds, Kamek could seal those abilities at any point to buy time. How? Let's not forget, Kamek had the ability to straight up steal the Chaos Emeralds from the start. Again, the animation is JUST FOR SHOW. What they actually showed us isn't saying the fight will go exactly that way, with Metal Sonic trying to match beam for beam. The entertainment factor of the animation is the same reason they didn't have Kamek just steal the Chaos Emeralds from the start, can't have a badass animation if they can't go into super powered forms. Kamek is just busted, pretty much the main reason Bowser could win honestly. 9.) Fury Bowser being in control really doesn't have an explanation, all I can say is a spoiler to Mario & Luigi: Brothership. For context, there's this substance called "Glohm" that in its weakest form will make people turn away from the people closest to them. it is isolation in its purest form. Bowser is hit with the Glohmatic Quad-ray which is a far more potent effect than normal Glohm. In this state, Bowser is facing his son Junior yet ignores him to fight Mario & Luigi instead. Later on in the fight, Bowser gets assisted by his minions. Remember, Glohm is supposed to make you want to stay isolated and be alone yet does nothing to hurt his own minions that are by his side and doesn't even think about hurting Junior. Glohm Bowser is far further away from control compared to Fury Bowser, given how in a later entry in the series he is able to somewhat keep his minions safe while going after Mario & Luigi (who he considers to be his ultimate enemies at his core) means he could feasibly do the same in Fury Bowser state. Again, not a concrete explanation. But Fury Bowser at his core would still go against his enemies, keep in mind he didn't just save his own army, he also saved Eggman's army. This could simply be a coincidence, simply by accident while trying to match a powerful energy (as he does normally). Another thing to note in the Bowser's Fury game, is that it is explained that Bowser was mad at Junior for painting him which fused with his Fury Bowser form. His minor anger at Junior in that moment and his general hate of Mario is what causes him to attack the two. In this fight, Bowser has no reason to be mad at his son or his army, with all the reason to be angry at Eggman and his army. Again, nothing concrete but since he has resisted attacking his army under circumstances where he is less in control would mean it is possible he could do the same in Fury Bowser state. 10.) Yes, the speed in the battle doesn't seem to make sense. It gets incredibly abstract with their immeasurable speeds. I don't know how they do their calculations exactly, but the best speed feat that they mentioned in the Death Battle was Solaris spreading his chaos all the timelines at a minimal speed of 73 quadrillion times light speed. While the Power Stars supposedly took Mario across the Universe at a speed of 489 quadrillion times light speed. I am sure Sonic has gone way faster than that, but they don't mention his highest speed feats if there is one higher than the scaling of Solaris (3 Supers). Like I said, I don't know how they do their calculations, if they're right then I guess there ain't much to say. Someone's gonna have to give an example beyond the Solaris thing or actually try to calculate the speed in that situation themselves. I still think the Sonic side is way faster, then again if one Power Star was that fast, how fast would you be able to go with all of them + the Grand Stars? Like I said, a bit abstract since they didn't mention even faster speed feats from the Sonic side like they did with the Mario side. Either way though, Kamek has the ability to nerf enemy stats and buff ally stats and can also cancel out the speed so long as it's counted as an ability, which of course it is. 11.) Dark Bowser was already as strong as Bowser before it fused with Dark Star Core Fawful, he became even stronger though when he absorbed the Dark Star Core. Dark Bowser 1:1 copied Bowser's data, so Bowser was definitely at least able to match its power. Considering Bowser still for the most part had to deal with Dark Bowser and the Dark Star Core actually fused together, would mean he surpassed his own level of strength. So, while you can say the whole fight was a 3v2, Bowser for half the battle was dealing with the 1v1 against a more powerful foe, still keeping them in check. 12.) Lastly, Dry Bowser. Bowser can't even die, since his skeleton is incredibly armored, and he can still be alive with just bones. Also, Dry Bowser is technically a more powerful form of Bowser, as he is more dense and heavier (Mario Kart shows the stats). His flames also become blue, meaning they are also more powerful. So, take everything form before and give it a buff since Dry Bowser isn't just Bowser's reanimated skeleton, it is a fully more powerful form. Dry Bowser can ALSO turn giant, another powered form on top of the Dry Bowser buff.

[@Superstar5_]

I read it and I agree!

[@Johan_4587]

@@Superstar5_ Wow, massive respect honestly for going through all that

[@-AIWillRule]

@@Johan_4587 Counter points 1. It doesn't matter as the chaos emeralds scale far better 2. Bowser can't use a power whenever he wants,the can't turn into a cat whenever he wants, he can't inhale whenever he wants, and he can't warp Reality whenever he wants. He needs items and power ups to do that, just like Eggman 3. Fury Bowser is clearly unstable as Bowser Junior needed Mario's help to calm him. 4. Everything you mentioned in your response wouldnt work because Eggman could just stealvit with Eggman Roulette

[@Johan_4587]

@@-AIWillRule Counter Points: 1.) The Wonder Flower is just one of the things he has access to. Grand Stars and other items also scale to the Chaos Emeralds. Remember, a SINGLE Grand Star was enough to power a Galaxy, that when destroyed, became a UNIVERSE ending singularity. Bowser has MULTIPLE of these at his disposal, plus all of the weaker Power Stars (in which a single one had the ability to allow someone to traverse the entire Universe in mere seconds). I'm not saying the Chaos Emeralds can't do that, I'm just putting it out there that the Power Stars and Grand Stars can scale and are more plentiful. 2.) Bowser for the most part can use a lot of his abilities whenever he wants. Cat is a power-up, so it doesn't count. He literally CAN inhale torrents of wind whenever he wants. He retains the same ability in future games, like when he used it to absorb the Dream Stone. It isn't a power up, it is just a thing that his body can do. He was able to warp reality as a baby, turning Yoshi's Island into a literal picture book, in a game where Kamek doesn’t appear. So, he wasn’t helped in that department. He doesn’t always do it, but he still has some capability to warp reality naturally. Saying he needs power ups for specific *forms* is different from his inherent abilities. He still breathes fire, controls the earth, can use lightning, can still inhale torrents of wind (were you even reading that part??), etc. The main point is, Bowser can use multiple inherent abilities whenever, and not through different machines. He’s more convenient and practical in other words. Even the stuff he does using items, he still does it all himself. Eggman commonly has to use machines as a middleman for the most part. Not entirely, but he doesn't do everything with his own power as often as Bowser. That is the main difference between magic and science. With magic, you can just do things. With science, you have to create things that can do things. Convenience is the main difference. 3.) Fury Bowser is unstable, again the reason behind that was answered in the same game. He was mad at Junior and hates Mario. In this battle, Bowser’s “fury” is targeted toward Eggman and his army. And when Glohmed in the game "Mario & Luigi: Brothership", he didn’t attack his own minions or son. Glohm Bowser being an arguably less stable form of Bowser who is less in control. 4.) Never heard of the Eggman Roulette, and I don't get a clear explanation from searching it up either. So, it's either from an obscure non-canon game, or you are misnaming it. Either way, did you forget that Kamek can *just* steal things too? He doesn't even need Chance Time, as many people seem to misunderstand that they only show Chance Time for the entertainment factor of the animation. Kamek can just steal it however he wants. When two sides are able to steal important items, it becomes a stalemate. However, Kamek also has the ability to cancel out powers and abilities. He can steal the items and cancel out their ability to steal it back. After that, he could just turn all of Eggman's weapons into literal flip flops. Without the items to be able to revert everything back to normal, he can't do much. Kamek is busted. One thing to note, Eggman's army is definitely deadlier and more destructive. However, Bowser's army just has ridiculous hax and toon force. Kamek is busted, if it was JUST Bowser vs Metal Sonic, Bowser would not have won.

[@hyperfairy7779]

i'de like to add that Fury bowser CAN contre himself to a degree if he can focus his anger, In Bowser's fury, he aims his massice fire blasts at Mario and actively chaces him around the map, and in the boss fights, FB focuses soely on Mario so in this situation FB could absoulty have some degree f control, directing his rage at eggman

[@markquezasbury1372]

Just because Yoshi can defeat Bowser doesn't mean he's more powerful than he is. There are plenty of factors that weren't really considered in that fight.

[@AtomicoMacaco]

Why not though? He pretty much did it more than once while having to take care of a baby. And many of these times Bowser was amped, so how come he couldn't win?

[@markquezasbury1372]

@AtomicoMacaco I could list the numerous amounts of spells, items, and abilities Bowser has, but death battle name enough already. Plus having Yoshi lose would defeat the purpose of the story.

[@AtomicoMacaco]

@@markquezasbury1372 You could list them, yes. But... He still lost, and if Yoshi wasn't supposed to win, the story wouldn't put him against Bowser to begin with lol

[@Mrangrybird-vg1iy]

@@AtomicoMacaco i got somethig that helps: MARIO PARTY! there is a minigame of 1 v 3 where the solo player uses a bowser suit. if we say that this suit is simmular to bowser candy (gives strength of bowser), we can say that bowser it at least 3 times stronger than yoshi. Also, bowser was a baby at that time

[@markquezasbury1372]

@@AtomicoMacaco Didn't say he couldn't beat him, I just said he wasn't as powerful as Bowser. And the second argument is a moot point.

[@JuanR-pg9qh]

I get the feeling that Death Battle does not do so much research for one of the fighters, but they also make the opponent much stronger than they really are

[@Extreme2566]

13:49 The Chaos Emeralds have the ability to turn thoughts into power,which basically means you can do anything you want with them. They brought Sonic back to life,(in the worst game ever)people can use their positive or negative energy,and chaos control is basically hax.

[@sillyy34]

HELLO MY FELLOW -MINOR- MINER 🗣️🔥🔥🔥

[@Titanspeakerman562-c4d]

-Eggman-

[@Extreme2566]

22:46 And the only way they beat him was because of Tails using Eggman's device to take the Chaos Emeralds away from him in poetic justice.

[@carlosemilio385]

17:03 Okay, I can understand… HALF of the robots you chose for this list. They WOULD’VE been helpful in the fight…. Until you realize that (Keyword:) HALF of these choices are AGAINST Eggman in the first place. Let’s start with Gemerl. Gemerl betrayed Eggman and when he got destroyed by Sonic, he was found by Cream and Vanilla, fixed and reprogrammed by Tails, and is now the guardian for Cream and Vanilla. So there is no way he is helping Eggman anytime soon. Omega LITERALLY wants Eggman DEAD. His ENTIRE gimmick is that he wants to destroy and annihilate ANYTHING related to Eggman. Sees an Eggman robot? Destroy. Sees innocent people infected by the Metal Virus? Destroy. Sees a literal harmless crate that only has Eggman’s logo on it? Destroy. I’m sorry but there is NO WAY in hell that Omega is a good example here. Finally, Mecha Sonic. I don’t care if you are talking about Comic Mecha or even SMBZ Mecha, BOTH Mechas still don’t want to be related with ANYTHING to Eggman. Comic Mecha doesn’t want to be related to him anymore as he felt extremely betrayed that Eggman completely forgot about him which made him lose his entire purpose back in Scrapnik Island, once Sonic got some sense into him, he decided to stop living in the past and start living for tomorrow, completely cleaning him from being related to Eggman completely. As for SMBZ Mecha though, Mecha felt completely irritated by Eggman failing to aid him against his endless war against Sonic, wanting to prove that he is superior to Sonic in every way possible, so what does Mecha do? He straight up “kills” Eggman inside the DeathEgg, completely destroying the entire thing and when the DeathEgg crashes into Mobius, it ends up turning Mobius into a complete apocalyptic wasteland, he then proceeds to kill all of Sonic’s friends and THAT’S when he arrives at Mario’s world once Shadow ends up stealing all the Chaos Emeralds from Mecha and teleports them anywhere but on Sonic’s world. I’m sorry, but if you want to try to Debunk this in the first place, you have to know your enemy before you fight him in the first place, don’t forget that even if they do end up fighting alongside Eggman, Bowser can just straight up revive just like that. Wanna know why I know? “Suddenly, Bowser appears!” If you know, you know.

[@personthehuman.]

finish the vid eggmans daughter clears that issue

[@thegrapeshow]

As long as they're Eggman technology that hasn't been significantly altered, Sage should have no trouble reassuming control of them with direct access to the EggNet and her unfathomably busted technopathy that could affect the Titans. The only reason I can think of Eggman not pursuing these assets is because he's just forgotten about them - like you say with Mecha Sonic in specific, and it's obvious that he doesn't care for any of his past, forgotten creations. He's arrogant enough to think that his skill and technology have destroyed their usefulness to his empire, but he's so obviously wrong, especially with Gemerl, who is the GOAT

[@la7402]

Ignoring the possibility of Sage being able to take them over against their will (which should be possible thanks to her being able to effect the Titans to a degree and even pilot Supreme when The End was kicked out of it in the original ending of Frontiers), the Phantom Ruby is still perfectly capable of creating clones of them that will be loyal to Eggman or Infinite (depending on who is using it). So sure, while you can argue the originals won’t help, the Phantom Ruby at worst nullifies that issue by making clones of them that are just as powerful as the originals.

[@Dango665]

Bro yapped for nothing lmao

[@Jdudec367]

@@thegrapeshow Even then King Boo coul still posses them too

[@wongdang2]

I do think the battle was 100% accurate and could've gone either way. Im happy you were VARY calm about this snd not being rude. As long as theres no glazing or lowballing this is a w 🔥

[@seanao32]

Ok so I’m just gonna copy paste what I read from someone, which I agree with: Reasonable? Yes. But it's not perfect. Says that Death battle said time eaters Eggmans strongest mech when they literally never said that. Tried to compare the power of one chaos emerald to the time eater even though it took a full super hedgehog to defeat him later in generations. Says Sage can flawlessly control the Titans even though she's never shown to be able to do that. Also says Sage being able to control "technology" means they can control everything that is technically technology like pipes and wheels which is taking that WAY to literally. Says Death battle should've brought up speed as a big thing which proves he didn't read the corner boxes which had both at immeasurable. Says Metal sonic wouldn't of beam clashed with Bowser and would've just put up his shield even though Bowser punch through the same shield earlier in the fight. Says Sage could just control Eggmans army to follow him which cancels the advantage The DB team gave Bowser even though the point wasn't "Eggmans army wouldn't listen to his commands" (even though that's impossible given there designed to do so) it was "Eggman couldn't give two shits about his army and doesn't care about letting them die while Bowser actively cares about his army" Says Sages technopathy wouldn't be cancelled out given in Frontiers Sage says their chances of beating the End are just unlikely not impossible without Sonic but the Best way to succeed was the team up with sonic. Even though Sage could logically come up with ways of Beating The End easier than Bowser given she knew stuff about The End and knows nothing about Bowser. Which is the point death battle was trying to make in how Bowser's army has so much versatility that even Sage's millions of calculations couldn't given Eggman a reliable straightforward path to victory. Mentions nothing on how Eggman gets around Bowsers win cons like the dream stone or star rod and doesn't bring up how death battle said it could just wish Eggmans heavy hitters out of Existence. The video is good and does mention good points but some thighs are also just kinda wrong.

[@MothOrchid20001]

THIS

[@csmileyxd7356]

Remember sage couldn't control the Titans because of the ends influence upon them yes it was still influencing them even in cyberspace and eventually she was able to manipulate one of them and technically some techno paths in media do have the ability to control pipes and stuff but I get it it's a reach she also can control magically enhanced technology because the Titans legit were built with the chaos emeralds in mind to hold them in the chaos emeralds giving them the power to create those things No one in Canon has ever broken through metal Sonic's shield yes no matter how strong they are he just can't attack when it happens By the way eggman has the castle they can grant wishes it's been stated on numerous occasions the phantom movies were able to cancel them out meaning they can cancel out magical items or wish-granting items for that matter yes Sonic mania they did that even though he already had a mean to cancel out wish granting items by the way switching through Max isn't a hindrance cuz sage can take control of numerous things at once Metal is also unbelievably faster than everyone so we can just copy biodata of items or items on the person at the time even if they're not using it and gain the abilities of that item without having it yes that's something you can do he's done numerous times as well he also doesn't need to be neo metal in order to do that By the way eggman has his own chance time and is capable of nullifying magic and you're really overestimating Bowser's magical power or rather comics because he has to hit you with a spell it's always been shown that way even in Mario party you have to land on a space that they specifically designed it's not a game play mechanic it's something you need to do

[@seanao32]

Everything you listed are good points but Bowser and his allies have abilities that either counters or simply matches most these, again the fight is the closest Deathbattle we’ve had in a long time.

[@csmileyxd7356]

@@seanao32 I just like to tell you I appreciate you dealing with my improper grammar or how I am not as organized as you are a lot of people complain about it

[@theguywhoasked2597]

They needed all the chaos emeralds for an UPGRADED time eater The end of sonic frontiers shows her doing just that But not caring about his army would actually do the opposite and unironically give eggman an advantage (despite how cruel it is) shown in the final scene bowser would put himself in risk to protect his army putting himself at risk while it would be the opposite for eggman (except for sage) Eggman gets around those wincons like the star rod through the chaos emeralds which negate existence erasure and reality warping shown in otherworld comedy also the time eater which has shown to be able to bring back non existent entities such as mephiles (he also has access to his own wishing through Super erazor djinn from runners)

[@HolyRattus]

Sage can't hack things such as a wheel or ancient forms of techonology. That's because in order to hack something, said object needs to have a system. Saying that Sage can manipulate something without a system is really an exaggeration.

[@csmileyxd7356]

Well know it doesn't need to have a system Tecno paths technically in certain media have been able to control things like wheels and pipes but the ancients didn't really have a system she had access to and even sold the reason she couldn't hack the Titans it was because of the ends influence and she was able to manually control one at the end

[@Tyrecordslol]

They said she had the power of Technopathy. Search on google or just ask Chatgbt whatever research you need but Technopathy control more than just Electricity but they are controlling the machinery and can even Upgrade it as well. Search if Technopathy allows you to control wheels and or anything technology based without electric and it will say “Yes”

[@stalememes6162]

Dude, no she can't. You only getting this result because you're taking the most antiquated definition of technology. Yes, practically everything can be considered by technology, but things like cannons or pipes which you have unironically tried to argue she can control are not even remotely close to what she has actually affected, and I feel like you know that. But instead, you purposely extrapolate it to the extreme, which is dumb. She has only affected electronic technology.

[@superdude899]

@@Tyrecordslol ngl I think a 5 year old could've come up with a better debunk vid, like, what is this?

[@Starwarsfan1253]

@@TyrecordslolWith all due respect Tyre, saying that Sage can hack a pipe is a huge L on your part.

[@shahaid8883]

Hearing "hello miners." on audio was scary💀

[@Skynetbear]

I feel as though there are several things that were misinterpreted or kind of ignored on the Mario universe side in this video 1)When down playing the power of the Grand Stars and Power Stars becoming galaxies it’s important to note that quite literally every celestial body that makes up the Mario universe is from a Luma The planet that Mario lives on which we know is close to our own in size is from a Luma or even the actual sun orbiting his solar system has the same size as our own and origin from a Luma In fact, many of those small planetoids also create black holes with small planetoids encasing those black holes which means the gravitational pull from those small planetoids must create an equal gravitational pull in order to sustain themselves so even the smallest land masses are at least star level Not to mention that many of that Lumas despite creating small planetoids have also created universe destroying black holes all on their own once they become Grand Stars. And there isn’t exactly a limit to how many Grand Stars they can become 2) When comparing the reality warping abilities of the Wonder Flower to the Phantom Ruby you provided a list of reality warping relics strictly from Eggman’s side. The Wonder Flower does have the ability to slow the flow of time or speed it up so yes it can manipulate time. The Wonder Flower also has the ability to create clones of troops just as another relic that was left out, the Dream Stone The Dream Stone is composed of thousands of dreams which are their own individual universes in Mario canon that have the ability to summon an endless number of troops as well as granting wishes such as to erase a being from existence The Star Rod is another relic capable of granting wishes. And finally the big one, Pure Hearts The Pure Hearts completely shut down the existence erasing power of the Chaos Heart at their max power which was said to destroy all existence in the Mario canon. It’s basically a direct counter to power beings like the Time Eater as well as having the ability to empower others with its power if necessary on top of literally cancelling out invincibility The Pure Hearts are described as containing infinite power in game and are described as being a manifestation of love itself that over comes any force With this in game definition, we can assume that the Pure Hearts application does not stop at just being a counter to the Chaos Heart but to literally any opponent that challenges it Null Space and Cyberspace isn’t particularly useful when characters like King Boo, Kamek, and Bowser Jr.’s paint can cross or create other dimensions King Boo is quite literally the perfect counter to Cyberspace. He intercepted Luigi while he was transformed into data and traveling through E. Gadd’s Pixelator cameras and transported him to a dimension of his own creation. EXACTLY like how Sage traps others in Cyberspace Also when discussing the number of powerful relics that Eggman has, consider that there are 24+ Grand Stars each with universal power and over 100 Power Stars comparable to galaxy level feats This basically means that Bowser has over 20 sets of his own Chaos Emeralds to divide amongst his army 3) Bowsers physical feats were extremely undersold in this analysis. Bowser has tanked the destruction of the Mario universe and not even Rosalina could stop him on her own Other than that Bowser has fought and defeated both Dimentio and Count Bleck who were empowered by the full power of the Chaos Heart and were attacking Bowser with literal existence erasure. In these fights the Pure Hearts were used but not to their full potential so all they did was remove a barrier and invincibility but left the destructive force of the Chaos Heart intact This has easily granted Bowser both multiversal power and immeasurable speed scaling as both Bleck and Dimentio were left completely blown away at the fact that they were defeated while wielding the full destructive power of the Chaos Heart He’s even threatened the Dream Depot which was stated to contain an endless supply of dreams which we know to be their own universes and Bowser was threatening all of it When you mentioned Bowser not possessing all his powers you kind of misinterpreted the information. It was referring to the fact that Bowser’s access to specific powers were either on hand or far more readily available if he wanted to change tactics compared to Eggman who was so spread out with mechs and relics he wouldn’t be able to change strategies nearly as easily since Bowser can rely on his pure brawn while Eggman needs to rely on whatever current mech he’s using Other abilities that you mentioned weren’t available to Bowser like his growth and inhale ability is completely incorrect and it looks like you just turned on the first cutscene you could find that look as if it were proving your point For one, ever since Bowser first ate the Vacuum mushroom he’s permanently had the ability to inhale torrents of wind and in the exact same game he has proved that his own biology allows him to grow at will so you’re video proof of Kamek coming in as the only thing that allows Bowser to grow in strength is disproven Bowser’s own magic that he has at all times is super busted and could deal with a majority of foes pretty easily via transmutation into bricks or turning huge mechs into a story book. This power isn’t just limited to Bowser either since Kamek and other Magikoopas can transform all basic Mario enemies into Bowser himself with no downside The Koopalings even have this ability like how they turned all the Kings in the Mushroom kingdom into harmless animals Also about the fight itself. You were actually correct that Metal would have put up a shield to block the final attack and we even see this happen in the fight when Neo Metal kicks the Death Egg Robot out of the way of Bowser’s punch But the final beam struggle was added in by MORO and is different from the original story board where originally Neo was planned to save his kicking the Death Egg Robot to safety for when he died via failing to tank the full power blast of a Grand Star infused Fury Bowser

[@Magma-Idiot-2001]

Agreed, while I can believe in the argument that Sonic can beat Mario (he's fast as fuck boi), this felt like grossly downplay Bowser's abilities and the items and powers in the Mario cosmology.

[@thetrench8486]

I agree with u so much ❤ Also to add onto the point of lumas/celestial objects in mario: Many galaxies or planets in the game have 1 or several black holes that are fairly big near them and are left unaffected by them. A black hole must be above 2/3 the mass of the moon if it is to absorb more radiation/mass than it emits. Or alternatively minimum mass of 2.35 solar masses. And they are commonplace throughout the game, so it gives some proof that planets in mario galaxy need to have mass or gravitational binding energy greater then that to coexist around them. And galaxies need far more to sustain and contain multiple of them. That disproves the idea of mario galaxy: [planets look smaller = less mass to earth/main mario world] Cause they would need tons of mass and energy just to exist. I find it funny how he says DB highballed the mario galaxies, when his only evidence was just eyeballing it based on look and thinking "hmm, not big enough".

[@Superstar5_]

I feel like he got a few things wrong with this video, which is ironic because I think he is trying to “debunk” the Death Battle.

[@Magma-Idiot-2001]

@thetrench8486 honestly, this is Mario, how many people would be thrilled to go through so many giant planets that don't really offer much apart from longer run time, in like 2008 for the Wii.

[@Superstar5_]

@@Magma-Idiot-2001I personally believe Mario would still win (although it would be close)

[@Warking19]

20:26 except earlier in the animation bowser just punches through. Whether or not you think that could actually happen it makes sense why metal wouldn't try it again

[@randomperson-real]

he punched throught while neo wasnt in his super form

[@Warking19]

@randomperson-real True but bowser also powered up with a grand star. Metal dosent know how much stronger that would make him so he would just assume bowser can hit him trough it again. Also does the shield scale with the forms I'm not too sure

[@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.]

He never punched through it. He launched him when he punched the shield.

[@Warking19]

@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy. He did the shield goes away after bowser punched him.

[@0Infinite-0]

This videeo is why I love Tyrecords videos👍🏾🔥

[@abysssans8188]

I want to bring up the speed thing again. I've noticed that while Deathbattle will frequently mention speed, it will rarely be taken into account in the actual battle or results. If you remember in Archie Silver vs Xenoverse Trunks, they actually stated how super silver must have similar speed to super sonic (which they said is faster than time itself in the same video) yet in the actual fight itself they had Super Trunks outspeed Super Silver. (Although Silver still won this fight, it's a great example of how they don't actually use speed feats despite talking about it)

[@Warking19]

That's because it is an animation made for entertainment. Do you want a 3 second long fight where silver just blitzes trunks because that dosent sound fun

[@abysssans8188]

@@Warking19 What I'm trying to say is in the fight Super Silver was caught off-guard and couldn't see Super Trunks move behind him, despite the fact they said Super Silver should be faster.

[@Warking19]

@abysssans8188 Again. Animation. Even then trunks teleported behind him while silver was talking. Silver wasn't paying attention

[@abysssans8188]

@@Warking19 Honestly didn't catch the part where he could tp, my fault. Still with his reaction time he should have been able to react even if he was distracted while talking. The example isn't as good as I thought, but I still feel like they rarely ever actually use speed in the fight/results despite talking about it.

[@MultiMario2306]

DIO vs Alucard, Sanji vs Rock Lee, Link vs Cloud, Reverse Flash vs Goku Black, Quicksilver vs Flash all had speed as a major factor to the debate

[@CalebWhite-l6n]

Oh boy.... Gotta respond to this now... "While Bowser is the king, it doesn't mean he's the best sorcerer" Death Battle never said he was the best, just that he was a sorcerer king, which is true. Bowser is a a sorcerer, even if he isn't *the* best sorcerer in the army. "Bowser doesn't have all his best powers built in" The three examples that are provided initially are *all* of Bowser growing giant, nothing about literally any other power Bowser has like transmutation, Dry Bowser, turning people into bricks, and just flat out warping through space and time. Death Battle also wasn't even talking about abilities he had with macguffins (even if they were, they gave Bowser every single MacGuffin he's ever had anyway). "Mario's stars likely aren't as big as ours" This shit again?! Tye! What you're showing is a *planetoid!* In games like Mario Odyssey you see, Earth, the Moon, and *stars* and they're all pretty reasonably sized. There's nothing pointing to the constellation feat being smaller then a normal constellation. "Yoshi isn't weaker then Bowser" Yoshi is likely weaker physically, just *look* at the two. At best both are relative anyway so I don't see why this is important. "But muh star particles!" Huh? Tye... Do you honestly think those are meant to be *literal* stars in the Mario verse?! It's literally just a fun effect. "Dark Bowser's fight was a 3v1" Bowse beat the hell out of his Dark counterpart so badly that The Core literally needed to heal him. Then Bowser proceeded to knock The Core out of a *giant* Dark Bowser and then proceeded to beat Dark Bowser in an inhaling tug of war. Bowser beat the hell out of his dark counterpart, no ifs ands or buts about it. "The Ruby scales to the chaos emeralds" I believe Death Battle's logic was that the AOE of the Wonder Flower was better than the Phantom Ruby's AOE. This is true, but I agree that it's a dumb way to gauge power and I think their point on perceptions is also dumb. "1 Chaos Emerald is above planetary" Eh, maybe? Tails states directly that the Chaos Emeralds power is miraculous after it fends off the Time Eater. This combined the fact both Sonics had to go super to beat The Time Eater makes the feat a bit too questionable to really use. "The Flower only alters space, not the fabric of reality. So it's not greater then the Ruby" Tye... It alters reality and can flat out speed up and slow down time as one of its effects. That's as concrete space and time manipulation as you're going to get. "The Phantom Ruby doesn't just alter perception" As I said earlier, I agree with this. "The Phantom Ruby is greater then the Master Emerald" That's a common misconception.The statement you're pointing to doesn't have Eggman say it's flat out say it's more powerful. Just that he won't need to bother with the Master Emerald, this just tells us Eggman doesn't think he needs it. For an example, imagine if I got a really good tank and said "with this tank, I won't even need my planet-busting laser". That just shows that I don't think I need to get the big guns, not that the tank is more powerful than the planet-busting laser. "The Phantom Ruby can also create clones" Phantom Ruby clones are *always* weaker than the original, such as when Shadow effortlessly beats his Phantom Ruby copy and just the final fight of forces in general (the main issue was the fact that Eggman could create thousands of them). Kameks copy's are not stated to have such a weakness. "Eggman's army can be controlled by Sage" How is this relevant? The main point is that Eggman is a shitty team player (which is true). *Not* that he'll get betrayed mid-battle or that Bowser's army is superior just because they have free will. it's that Bowser army being that loyal to him while still having free will means he'll overall be a better team player than Eggman. I shouldn't need to explain why your army being more loyal and being an overall better team player will matter in the long run during an all out *army* fight. "Eggman can restore his army" I mean you *could* argue he could undo it with time manipulation, but that's not actually a resistance to transmutation magic, just time manipulation undoing it (also nothing's stopping Bowser from just doing it again lol). Also, what's gonna happen when Bowser turns *Eggman* into a block? Or better yet, King Boo just flat out shuts down any of Eggman's mechs that could undo the effects through possession (which Sage wouldn't know how to counter BTW)? "Eggman has full control over his army so he doesn't have less efficient leadership" That's *not* why Eggman was given less efficient leadership. They said he had less efficient leadership because he's a shitty team player who can hardly have a healthy alliance with *himself.* Bowser doesn't have this problem because his army just naturally likes and follow him out of their own free will. "Sage technopathy isn't irrelevant because she can control Eggman's army" She can't control any part of Bowser's army that actually matters, that's why it's irrelevant. "Sage can control things in Bowser's army" Alright.... Let's fire through these. 1. What reasons would Sage have take control of Bullet Bills? They're useless and it won't really affect anything if Sage uses them against Bowser. 2. Bowser could just use his *own* variant of chance time which is just flat out rigged to always give him something, it won't matter where Sage stops it, Bowser will end up taking something from Eggman either way. 3. Tye... It's a magic paintbrush that has no apparent technological properties, just because E. Gadd made it doesn't suddenly make it tech. 4. Warp pipes aren't relevant to the debate, seriously why does this matter? "They didn't they bring up speed" They actually scaled Bowser as *faster* quantifiably, but the corner boxes equalize their speeds to immeasurable so speed ended up not being that big of a factor. "Sage never said beating the Titans was impossible, so she could predict what they were going to do." This is just a case of something being in the corner box that probably should have been said vocally. Sage had *no* data to even build simulations on when it comes to Bowser or his army. Even *if* she did have a basic understanding, Bowser and his army being able to use an insane amount of BS from all across the Mario series meant she could not *reliably* predict what Bowser and his army we're going to do. "These Eggman creations were left out" Okay. The standards for what Eggman got depended on not if they were alive, but if they would be willing to work with him again. With that said, let's go over this. 1. Shadow androids fucking suck and wouldn't factor in on the debate in the slightest, at best you could argue they can use chaos control, but then the way more powerful Metal Sonic could just use them. 2. Mecha Sonic is currently chilling on Scrapnik Island wanting nothing to do with Eggman, so he doesn't meet the criteria. 3. Phantom King literally betrayed Eggman, and then betrayed *again* as soon as he got revived. He didn't work for Eggman. 5. Do I even need to explain why Omega doesn't meet the criteria? 6. Gemerl betrayed Eggman. 7. Sage can't actually control the Titans. She can only summon them and just kinda direct them towards the target. This is probably a risk Eggman and Sage wouldn't take because of the doctor's inability to beat them without teaming up with Sonic. 8. The Mega Death Egg Robot is not actually stated to be more powerful than Sonic's past bosses. Eggman just says he'll return the defeat and humiliation by a trillionfold. This doesn't really mean it's more powerful, it's definitely more powerful than Infinite though! But Infinite is a total fraud anyway. "Eggman took over the timeline" He didn't take it over, he erased it. Also the point about Bowser conquering more than Eggman was just to cap things off anyway, a cherry on top if you will, not a legitimate argument for why Bowser wins. "But Eggman roulette-" Isn't guaranteed to steal things! In comparison Bowser's variant of chance time is just rigged in his favor. "Metal Sonic can copy everyone's bio-data" They say Kamek can shut the ability off, even then they also say Bowser could just wish him out of existence. "Metal Sonic can transform into Overlord without Sonic and Shadow" Yeah, but why is this relevant? Metal Overlord isn't more powerful than super Neo Metal Sonic and overall Overlord wasn't really part of the debate. "Metal Sonic wouldn't have fired a beam" The Death Battle wiki confirmed that it was him copying Bowser's amped up Grand Star beam. Even then, if Metal Sonic tried to put up his black shield he would have been atomized even faster. "Fury Bowser wouldn't help the army" You can argue that, sure. But Fury Bowser was used in the animation because it's objectively Bowser's most badass form, not because it was a super big factor in the debate. Also, Fury Bowser getting pissed when his son gets hurt and protecting his army from the Death Egg is cool enough for me not to care so... "Metal Sonic has run the gauntlet and is a goat" True! 🗿🗿🗿 Thought I don't really think that's enough to win it for Eggman. "Metal Sonic is immeasurable" So is Bowser! They actually mentioned this in a black box.

[@RichardWaugh-vd2df]

@@CalebWhite-l6n this wholeheartedly Ty was noticeably favoring the sonicverse and downplaying mario hard it’s sad

[@ImARandomUploader7820]

ngl. Both of y'all taking these things to heart like they your dad's. It's getting weird how serious people take games and characters

[@Uesr2004D]

It definitely makes sense, Eggman is a commander, Bowser is a warrior. One commands their tropes from behind the lines, the other fights alongside them. The king of the Koopas is by all means a warrior that leads by example and charisma. Put that up against a strategist with all their resources exhausted and it is easy to guess who would win in a battle.

[@jeriahweaver5215]

I get the feeling ty didn't look at the black boxes.

[@static669]

You do realize Sage can take control over Omega and Gemerl, might I remind you Gemerl needed Super Sonic and Eggman working together to defeat. Bowser can't just wish the entire army away he would've done that to the entire Mario cast by now, it's not even for gameplay reasons, if Bowser's reality warping was of that degree, he would've taken over the Mushroom Kingdom. Also Kamek can't just strip away Metal Sonic's bio data, literally the first thing Metal Sonic does in the game he's introduced is copy Sonic's bio data, he just replicates what he sees by scanning it. He could've even copied kamek's abilities and done the same. So it makes no sense Kamek could just strip it away that easily.

[@stevenanthony3644]

18:27 that and Bowser did not have any resistance. There was no one fighting him. He just came in took over it was that he just planted his flag on places and boom that territories now his.

[@aidenlin-d9k]

The sonic glazing is crazy

[@Blasta_Masta369]

Exactly

[@Amori54]

how is it glazing if he’s literally just bringing up feats of metal 😭

[@BIGSWOLEXL]

@@Amori54lmaooo right like legit bringing up feats and these kids are slobbering down their Chin “sOnIc gLaZiNg”

[@Lord_vex]

It’s Sad the amount of copium you have

[@LegoGokuAboveFiction]

Exactly

[@jaydonamazing8347]

FINALLY I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR YOUR TAKE

[@VoxTek426]

Fun fact on twitter one if the animators confirmed infinite isn’t dead he’s just laying there contemplating his existence

[@Duketamashi]

Why do you keep glazing sonic

[@Hundred1000-o6f]

He’s a Sonic fanboy who can’t cope with his preferred character losing. This video he made wouldn’t exist if Eggman won.

[@Rathalos2428]

​@Hundred1000-o6f I find that funny that this is Mario Fanboys go-to main argument. Honestly, what I have been learning is that Mario fans have only been all talk. Their Galaxies are small as a game board, their planets are smaller than my house at times - this is consistency that even a Sonic or DC Fan can notice. Then Mario fans have their tantrum ; "You don't knuuu" while never once, providing any facts or feats. Just baseless opinions and feelings, so TLDR Mario fans are wannabe power scalers, they cry and moan when they are ignored, expect the world to care about the Mid Switch, and act like Nazi when it come to scaling anything but Mario.

[@Hundred1000-o6f]

@ Oh look it’s the racist Sonic fanboy. Muted and ignored. Your opinion = irrelevant.

[@Rathalos2428]

@@Hundred1000-o6f Only proved my point and I'll break it down with DC Math; 1. Despite never saying anything racist, we have the Mario Fanboy showing his true subconscious, wanting this to be about race because you have nothing worth to that sad brain. 2. I'm still waiting for a real argument; all you've done is whine, throw a tantrum, ignore and deflect like any sour, crybaby mario fan. 3. Block and Ignore means cope and seethe bud, and that's all you are doing 😆 🤣 😆 🤣 😆 🤣 😆

[@Rathalos2428]

@@Hundred1000-o6f Also; it took Blud 3 hours to have a "13 word thought" 😆 🤣 😆 🤣 😆 🤣 😆 🤣 😆 🤣

[@Fang1st]

I will make a correction, you said Sage could control the titans, but she tells Sonic 'while I can't control them, I can direct their anger towards you.' Or something along those lines. Other than that 100% agree. No hate towards DB but I really wish they did better research/didn't give characters their full potential in fights.

[@Minute_Meth]

she still could have used them in the fight right?

[@KirbyZilla]

They did and bowser would still win even with the research he is cartoon character and even with variety he still wins no offensive eggman is strong but he is just a. Guy at the end of the day

[@Minute_Meth]

@@KirbyZilla its army vs army

[@Thatechoissoannoying]

I mean, a lot of these are nit picky. Like the first couple for bowser, “he’s all natural” feel like that’s meant to be an exaggeration to make a point, and not meant to be taken exactly legit, I’m excited for the rest of the video though

[@randomperson-real]

its basically manipulation which is a form of controlling

[@sleepy_maxxz2366]

15:02 I understand most of the points you made but the sage taking over pipes? Bullet bills? Im pretty sure the technology they were talking about was the electrical kind. Guns don’t use electricity to fire bullets, and pipes are just tubes. Bowser Jr.’s paint brush, i can kinda see why since it was built by E. Gadd but then again its looks more like it uses magic properties than electric properties.

[@sleepy_maxxz2366]

An example is when you mentioned a wheel, a wheel can not move without an outer source whether it be by hand or an engine, without that source it just a metal circle with a rubber cover, or in your example, a wooden circle

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

1:17 lie counter number 1 1:20 lie counter number 2 1:44 doesn’t matter he is still extremely skilled and they never said bowser was the best 2:04 became big on his own in Mario party 2:43 that doesn’t prove he doesn’t have his own natural abilities 3:01 bowser has inhaling abilities since Luigi mansion 1, mario party 9 and kept consistent with dream team and paper jam 3:24 no they said that most of bowser best stuff it’s own which is true and bowser has way more accessibility to them than eggman does who needs multiple people with one single mech or LOTS of magic 4:15 damn it’s almost like a game can’t actually make Mario explore an entire planet sized level for over 120 power stars and beside those are planetoids not actual planets there are several games which depict planets in Mario as the same size of our own planet even the galaxy games 4:37 we are only exploring planetoids inside the galaxies not the galaxies themselves also Mario Galaxy 2 world 5 5:05 those are not stars they are magma orbs 5:18 the only reach is you desperately trying to downplay Mario with your headcanons 5:31 cause multi colored mini star particles are the same as an explosion that not only created a star that looked the same as the other stars in the sky but even had a whole constellation/image on it 6:00 super Mario world, super Mario Galaxy 2, the Mario party games, the Mario and Luigi games, super Mario rpg, the paper Mario games, mario sports games etc all games where bowser is consistently above yoshi 6:47 it wasn’t his source it was HALF of his power, bowser took care of dark bowser the other half of the dark star who already took ALL the abilities of bowser and Mario and Luigi got rid of the other half 7:11 he did and your manipulation is evidence is utterly depressing 8:22 so we’re ignoring how the time already defeated the emeralds taking all their energy out as you shown on screen and the fact sonic needing all 7 to beat him and even tails stated that himself the cherry picking is insane 8:48 so we’re now ignoring the time levels ? Which there were at least 3 of them Btw he definitely played Mario games everyone 9:14 you don’t know how perception works do you ? Perception included ALL our five senses tact included 10:03 already debunked this 10:34 and we’re going to ignore how the ruby didn’t get beated by super forms but base form as well another shameless cherry picking 10:38 it’s null space 10:44 misstranslation the actual translation was “ I don’t think I can see an end “ which doesn’t mean it’s infinite 11:54 gravity manipulation isn’t telekinesis 12:06 creating portals isn’t the same thing as summoning you sure you know how hax work ? 12:24 by usually you’re conceding that despite kamek does it rarely it’s not necessary for him to be in the same place to buff allies and he doesn’t he can target them from afar or create portals 13:00 did you even watch the video ? Bowser took the ruby and destroyed it eggman with the dragon was still amped with the ruby 13:11 doesn’t matter when bowser army actually HAS strategy 13:25 which are nowhere near as powerful as the real one 13:44 yeah you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about transmutation is nowhere near the same thing as space-time manipulation 13:46 kamek just amps himself with the power star to match up 14:33 which is not the same thing as transmutation 15:00 it’s literally a paint brush and it works on magic like ALL of bowser army sage power will just be useless or worse countered by bowser will 15:13 yeah now prove sage controlled rudimental stuff 15:22 all stuff that relies on magic making sage abilities ineffective also half of the Mario cast can damage immaterial beings meaning they would just one shot sage 15:51 speed is a physical stat congrats to prove your ignorance once more 16:15 no it was referring to getting eggman out of cyberspace which also she got wrong 16:53 and she said the same to sonic and guess what ? He proved sage wrong 17:04 not against any of the koopa army and bowser jr outsmarted beep-0 who created Jeanie who could also calculate millions of probabilities and sage would get overwhelmed in numbers her best calculations have reached 1 million bowser army thanks to brothership is almost in the 100 millions 17:35 clearly not talking about power here 17:50 yeah sure 18:03 sage stating herself that she couldn’t control them and only succeeded with supreme cause of sonic weakening it another cherry picking 18:23 💀 this is just lying cause of lying and being biased eggman didn’t do anything in generations the time eater did all the work and even kidnapped both eggman who had to team to restrain it also bowser took over multiple space-times in galaxy 2 6 space-times > 1 18:40 wouldn’t have changed anything not only cause even the worst Mario party game is better than that rip-off but even cause Mario party gives way better scaling 18:55 literally the dream depot 19:00 oh so we are counting Mario game design to say the cosmology is small but now you’re doing the same with sonic but just to amp him 19:38 kamek : damn that’s crazy anyways * does it again and the emeralds have been stripped of their power before 20:06 “has COMBINED YOUR data with the power of chaos” lack of reading comprehension i see 20:33 would have still gotten destroyed 21:34 bowser was pissed in fury not in that fight 21:55 cough cough got one shotted and lost the power to base shadow cough cough 22:44 metal was amped by all the chaos emeralds and sonic was still keeping up with him and even speedblitz him 23:11 he didn’t 23:22 and so does Mario 23:35 power stars 🤦 23:50 that’s not beyond and in shuffle sonic is getting transported 24:04 and so did the Mario series in all canons 24:21 same fodder who needed to remain in the dream world unlike dreamy bowser needed amber out unlike dreamy bowser with dreambert and only had control of his dreams unlike dreamy bowser who had the control of all dreams in the Marioverse yeah luckily we didn’t see this coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb matchup 25:01 funny you never get a power scaling take right and I’m asking myself if you didn’t play sonic games as well other than only Mario games In conclusion bowser sweeps eggman in all outcomes and it’s not close either and you all can cope

[@Hogridaaaaaaaaaaa]

what is bro about 😭 🙏🏽 funny how u got no likes lol

[@Hogridaaaaaaaaaaa]

Bro is coping anything 💀 😂

[@Hogridaaaaaaaaaaa]

get lil bro out of here 😂

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

@@Hogridaaaaaaaaaaa meat eating sounds is all I’m hearing but you commented and thanks for increasing my comment popularity also this comment is 4 minutes old

[@Hogridaaaaaaaaaaa]

@@mynameisntimportant1374 bro so mad he responded and look at ur post 😭 🙏🏽

[@RedX03]

18:03 sage specifically stated she cannot control them. All she could do was guide there anger towards sonic.

[@csmileyxd7356]

Yes but we figure out later why she couldn't control them cuz the end could then she was able to manually control one of them the concept of death just interfered which that's what the end is by the way

[@RedX03]

@ oh ok, been awhile since of played frontiers

[@Hugo-yz1vb]

Then teleport everybody away from the fight for a while, sit back, relax, and enjoy how the Koopa Troopa gets obliterated by four Super Sonic level threats

[@RedX03]

@@Hugo-yz1vb valid, low key had to get my sonic fan side back In line because yeah no way even with non canon items is bowser winning this

[@TTVJOJO41323]

​@@RedX03Bowser items are all canon. Sooo

[@NoHandle44]

17:32 Eggman is saying that he'll get back at Sonic "a thousand" or "a trillion" fold. He's not saying that his ultimate weapon is literally a trillion times stronger tgan Eggman's past robots.

[@cheesemoplayz529]

Infinite is still stronger the solaris do to guides

[@Retro-g4h]

I stopped doing homework for this. So worth it 😌

[@gamercentral2417]

Doesn’t matter who wins, this is BY FAR the best death battle.

[@darionnash6575]

Definitely not but it’s up there I guess

[@gamercentral2417]

@ it definitely is, and it’s not even close. Likeability/enjoyability ≠ better As bias can play a huge factor in likeability. This is easily the best death battle no competition, billcord was maybe second but this just has by far more effort into it, the best 2d animation we have seen, the alternate scenarios, the soundtrack, the character moments, the analysis editing, everything was extremely great this episode. And it’s not just me, a huge amount if not a majority of the community agrees on most if not all of my points (whether they say it’s best is on them though). Not to mention the actually good scaling and how many scenarios they included

[@darionnash6575]

@ it really wasn’t. The fight was good but I can name 5 off the top of my head that are better, such as Dante vs. Bayonetta, Lucario vs. Blaziken, Aigis vs. Noel Vermillion, Mega Man Battle Royale Ultron vs. Sigma, and Meta vs. Carolina, Solid Snake vs. Sam Fisher. And a few more that have better effort put into research, better choreography, better soundtracks, and are just more memorable. The research for this fight was very lackluster; speed was barely a factor in the research and in the actual fight, despite Metal Sonic being modeled after Sonic, who’s known for his speed. They excluded a good deal of eggman’s arsenal; they had characters dying to stuff they shouldn’t have been dying to, such as infinite, somehow dying to thwomp of all people. In what world does that make sense? They also excluded the fact that Metal Sonic without super forms and Infinite are stronger than Solaris, who I'm pretty sure they got to universal to multiversal. Also, their lack of knowledge on the Sonic verse, particularly Metal Sonic was kind of apparent in their take on Metal Sonic vs. Cell, in which the research on Metal Sonic was poor enough to the point they had to explain themselves to other content creators.

[@Jokertwelve665]

All I gotta say is that even though there videos are purely for entertainment, Death Battle has a track record of being biased

[@TheOnePizzaKid]

I love your face so much it's so different than other KZbinr

[@rachelvieira397]

5:04 i don’t even know what to say…..

[@UnknownEntity409]

Road to 5 mil you're almost there bro!!

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

I think bowser wins still, hax is still way stronger imo

[@LuigiWoody456A]

Sage can’t control technology! She can “hack” into it and THEN control it! Last time I checked, YOU CAN’T HACK INTO A PIPE OR A CANNON!

[@Serious5GamingS5G]

0:08 I didn't expect to be called out like that lol

[@shawnandaudrymillbaugh1478]

Even though Metal Sonic would need Sonic’s and Shadow’s biodata to transform Eggman actually had a way around that cause he could’ve used the phantom Ruby to make clones of metal overlord and perfect chaos or use the Time eater to pull them from the different points in time when they were around as we’ve seen in generations. Another gripe I have with this fight is that I highly doubt that fury bowser is as strong as The End to the point where his beams can knock the Chaos Emeralds out of Super Forms and also how did bowser jr not get decapitated and die after being hit right on the neck by Super Neo Metal Sonic and the fact that they mentioned Eggman’s weapons and Mechs but only gave him a handful of them. Well there’s my rant but all in all it was still a great and well animated fight, Death Battle really is a great channel that’s come a long way. Thank you for taking the time to read my rant if you did.

[@tridungta9151]

Budget and do you want to animate five giant detail mechs in one video that all can be erase in one second?

[@notarobber5387]

@@shawnandaudrymillbaugh1478 Death battle said they were going to use characters at their strongest which would include a fully charged phantom ruby and metal sonic with all bio-data. Even then like you said time eater could drag different items from different points in time into the fight. Eggman doesn't even need to do this himself, he can just send Sage to do pilot the time eater or Eggman nega. They gave Eggman Erazor djinn when they don't even interact but don't give him Eggman nega who was a part of his army for multiple games which doesn't make any sense. Also the animation is not accurate to the debate

[@stevenanthony3644]

@@notarobber5387very true and let’s be honest eggman would have won if they bothered to do proper research

[@cybergooninja004]

A few things: 1. It is dumb that the phantom ruby is perception based but unfortunately it is cannon and we can't really do anything about it. Even tails saying "it's a part of our reality" insinuates that it isn't actual reality and just an illusion that would make them think they died meanwhile the wonder flower can at the WORST match that level of power. 2. The emeralds are part of a seperate argument. I'm only halfway through the video but they're arguing the abundance of power stars could match the reality warping of seven emeralds (if you want think about it like super Saiyan and kaioken from dbz. Super is a x50 while kaioken is a X1 but can stack all the way to 100) 3. I haven't played sonic frontiers but from my understanding Sage is a program come to life so she's limited to anything with programming. This might work on Jr's paint brush but definitely not the chance time boxes since those are Kamek's magic and worry case scenario he could even negate it. That's also assuming Sage would know to negate that stuff 4. Ok... No Eggman is saying he'll pay sonic back tenfold in that moment NOT that his power is over a trillion or his latest invention is. And in the scene before that you showed he simple said he surpassed "infinite" not his old inventions and such. Yes infinite is said to be the greatest villain so far but I feel he's referring to the main villains of the old games otherwise why wouldn't he summon time eater with the phantom ruby? It could be he's just dumb which... Yeah that's a solid argument but I don't know. 5. This is about Eggman's conquest. Eggman destroyed time there he didn't conquer it... Even then Eggman struggles to make one theme park, Bowser is a tycoon. HE SOLOS 6. Ok I think here's a good point to put this argument (the moment he mentions the Eggman roulette) that's an invention he says. He says "which invention shall I use this time?" So that means there's more of a genuine chance it's random and that he doesn't use it anymore. This also leads into why Bowser has the better army... Eggman builds off his failures for new inventions and new mechas, rarely building the same one twice unless it's a favourite like metal sonic or Sage. Meanwhile Bowser genuinely cares and commands his troops. Eggman would throw bodies of destroyed mechs at Bowser while Bowser would make sure his troops are ok and they would defend him willingly. Basically if it comes down to insurance Eggman is running out of troops much faster than someone who makes sure to defend them. 7. He does need shadow and sonic, I've heard that's been confirmed of course I might be wrong lol. 8. Metal sonic is indeed the HARD carry of this team but that doesn't become much of an advantage when the rest of your team is struggling to keep up and you've got too many heavy hitters to take out. Metal sonic could take out everyone but if they're all working together while you're stuck picking up everyone's slack? The problem was literally metal was trying to solo. Still an awesome video and I liked hearing the arguments even if some of them were better than others Edit: Few more things: 1. People explode into stars in the rpg games too but survive when the game ends so you could interpret it as Kamek giving them powers equal to a star and well.. yeah Second thing it's more a 2 v 3. Bowser vs Dark Bowser then Mario and Luigi vs the Dark Core AKA Flawful. AND found where classic sonic came from. It was mania where the phantom ruby, after phantom king was defeated, created a portal where classic sonic came from! Edit 2: Ok so after finally finishing sonic mania and thinking about the phantom ruby I got the idea: Maybe the Phantom ruby PROTOTYPES are the illusion based one while the Mania Phantom Ruby is able to make portals in dimensions and such Edit 3: Yeah just searched up what Reverie means... It means a dream. Yeah the phantom Ruby creates illusion/dream zones lol

[@CarlosGarcia91000]

I have a question the villain from sonic and the secret rings erazor Dijon is it true that he has the power of 100 universes

[@cybergooninja004]

@CarlosGarcia91000 Yes? He has "1000 of the Arabian nights" which could be interpreted a few different ways but he's never even met Eggman. I don't even think Eggman knows who that is so bringing him into the conversation is a little irrelevant I think especially since it wouldn't make a difference because there are more powerful creatures like time eater and such. This is a big I THINK btw lol

[@beambie9145]

Base form flicky solos all of Nintendo and Sega 🥱

[@NebulaSon]

He already explained why the phantom ruby isn't just perception based. It bought classic Sonic into modern world and Tails said in the Japanese translation that it's breaking the boundaries of dimensions. It's not limited to perception. It was also stated to be more powerful than the chaos emeralds and that it can't be rivaled.

[@truegamer7760]

@@NebulaSon Then explain why in sonic forces its states that it is perception based.

[@TruthEnforcer_2503]

another day watching death battle shitting on sonic and upping mario into oblivion

[@Limelight2800]

No discussion, Heavily Suppressed Curious George slams both

[@TyTheCombatant]

Nah bro SpongeBob got that

[@mr.trashbear8124]

Homelander solos! All he has to say is “YUMMERS!” And curious George will get obliterated

[@TyTheCombatant]

@fungus-t9v these bots are trying to spread a curse on everyone these days 💀

[@Blue_JelloBoi]

That joke is getting a bit old

[@Blue_JelloBoi]

@@TyTheCombatant fr 😭

[@yensawabi2098]

I have a question Have you brought up any of the black boxes Up in the corner Death Battle Brought a lot of stuff there They explain the cosmology Of Mario and sonic And they brought up immersible speed arguments for both of them And also you should not criticize the fight Because It's just meant to be a fun animation just Not how accurate the fight should But I'm happy that you're not spreading any hate Is towards Death Battle.

[@csmileyxd7356]

Do a bit better with Sonic's cosmology only because it has cosmology within its cosmology I know that sounds weird but the book series kind of explains it a bit more they have universes within universes within universes which is stupid

[@inksinkanimates8921]

@@yensawabi2098 They aren't similar in scope at all if we're being honest, Sonic contains Mario's verse in canon while Mario doesn't contain Sonic's verse, and Sonic's verse just contains itself ad infinitum, so the Sonicverse makes the Marioverse look like a SPEC of DUST.

[@Skynetbear]

@@inksinkanimates8921 Except Bowser has threatened the entire Dream Depot created by the wish granting Star Spirits which contained an infinite number of Dreams which are described as individual universes in the Mario canon Not to mention all the existence erasing power of artifacts like the Dream Stone, or Chaos Heart which is directly comparable to the Pure Hearts Other characters with the ability to collapse universes and dimensions like the Grand Stars, King Boo, Culex, the Black Jewel, etc.

[@inksinkanimates8921]

@@Skynetbear You realise that Sonic also has it's own 'dream depot' of sorts, which is called maginaryworld, maginaryworld contains dreams of everyone, even from other dimensions [in Sonic, dimensions is used synonymously with universes, realities and timelines.] And each dream would contain it's own maginaryworld ad infinitum, and Void negged it all in his first form, Sonic and co beat him in his second. [Shuffle is between Adventure 1 and 2] And these same dreams can contain any concept and have no limits. You mention the existence erasing things but yet Bowser never does it to Mario or Luigi. Collapsing universes and dimensions is NOTHING in Sonic, There's robots as early as the Egg Salamander who transcend dimensionality as a whole, the Sol Emeralds being capable of creating a Eggmanland that transcends dimensions, and the Egg Salamander being powered by the Sol Emeralds. [Egg Salamander would also have immeasurable speed too at bare minimum.] Then we have characters such as Solaris [Not even that strong in the Sonic verse if i'm being deadass] Who's upscaled by Super Sonic, Shadow and Silver in '06, who erased all of the cosmology by existing, same goes to Erazor Djinn too. [Both weaker than the Egg Dealer and Wizard.] And eggman's robots just get stronger and stronger to the point where even the Egg Pawns in Colors actually neg all of the enemies in previous games.

[@inksinkanimates8921]

@@yensawabi2098 It's death battle, they don't do their full research, as we've seen quite a few times now. Just because DB says so, doesn't mean it's the case.

[@NoHandle44]

5:02 First it was epstein island. Now it's diddy. 😂

[@dechis007]

10:02 Bro, there are literally Wonder Flowers that affect time by increasing or reducing it's speed, you clearly don't know shit you are talking. Also, even if you were right about the Wonder Flower, that wouldn't change anything since Bowser still can warp reality with his own magic and has stronger reality warping devices like the Star Rod and the Dream Stone.

[@dechis007]

4:15 Here we got a lot of composition fallacies. Yes, most of galaxies in the Galxy games are not actual actual galaxies, however, that doesn't mean all the galaxies in verse are fake and cartoony. In Worlds 4 and 5 of Super Mario Galaxy 2 you can clearly see actual galaxies on the background. Also, even the smaller galaxies have black holes within, so you are really downplaying Luma's powers Another composition fallacy you do is comparing Yoshi's feat to the other enemies deaths to downplay. In the scene you can clearly see that Raphael's body flew far away into outer space and he clearly became a constellation. Even if the star effects were a result of Kamek's power in both cases, that doesn't imply or result Kamek is not strong enough to perform a higher feat that scale to constellation level.

[@ZERO-x7c-t4y]

I do believe bowser would still win but you don't have to yell about it

[@dechis007]

@@ZERO-x7c-t4y I'm not yelling, i'm just answering a point of the video i know it isn't actually true.

[@Dango665]

@@dechis007Cap

[@Gamerlegend9001]

I believe metal sonic should have gone into metal overlord but then it would be even more of a metal sonic vs bowser and his army so since it’s eggmans i think it’s fair Edit: OmG i JuSt MaDe A wAr In ThE rEpLiEs

[@Capt.sirmetalguy]

Ngl the whole thing was metal sonic vs bowser and his army

[@Gamerlegend9001]

@@Capt.sirmetalguy I know but we don’t want it to be even worse

[@Gamerlegend9001]

I mean it would not be eggman versus bowser it would metal sonic vs an army

[@greenspeedser]

Metal overlord would take all his fleet making him lose harder

[@Minute_Meth]

he couldnt go into metal overlord he didnt have the bio data

[@ReReik]

The real question is if series like Paper Mario, Mario and Luigi, Super Mario RPG, and etc can even be considered part of the same continuity/universe

[@ReReik]

Personally I believe some of the game series to be separate continuities but I will say that some of them could be used as means of showing the feats a character could accomplish as they still have the same character at the end of the day (with the only exception imo being the Paper Mario series as they are all shown to be clearly in a literal sense made of paper which changes their comparability to their flesh counterparts as they have different feats/capabilities entirely)

[@Mistsofmilts]

4:44 appeal to reality fallacy, when did it ever occur to you that cartoons had to be realsitic? They can be said to be infinite in size and number while still looking rather small compared to how things look realsitically, if it's stated to be this one thing, without hyperbole then it's to be taken with full consideration

[@justjosh9353]

I think the problem occurs when it comes down to scaling. If one world has a more realistic version of a universe, then it’s kinda hard to call the more goofy one. For example, if both character survived a planet explosion, but one character is on a planet he can walk around in a minute, is it valid to say he survived a planet explosion? Keep in mind these character have official heights and maybe the “planet” term only represents the circular object with gravity, not the size.

[@Not-Random-Knight]

Bro said “he’s not glazing one to win” but he gave a whole essay on why eggman would win

[@ultraphyxthespeedyone7198]

Was he wrong one bit tho?

[@Not-Random-Knight]

@ not one bit wrong

[@darrelson2511]

@@Not-Random-Knight So what's the problem?

[@AidanBurnett-y8g]

I don’t like how they said Egg man can’t even work with himself because they were able to work together fine until they got defeated and they Started to argue because they were in the middle of freaking nowhere

[@FK74396]

What threw me off was that they had ignored Eggman’s army of Death Egg Robots and Metal Overlord just not even appearing.

[@subxo]

Tbf that was most definitely due to limits in money with production so that's why they didnt appear in the fight, and i don't think they ignored it for the analysis, those things just don't matter in the argument as much as the Time Eater, the Death Egg itself, and Super Neo Metal Sonic which are way stronger than Metal Overlord.

[@necrostar0248]

You, You do realize that Super Neo Metal is better in every way than Metal Overlord right?

[@Sonicdxunleashed]

@@necrostar0248 not hes not

[@Sonicdxunleashed]

@@subxo the egg wizard the inal death egg roboot the egg wyvern you name it they are trouble for bowser

[@Maxjb1242]

@@necrostar0248another thing is that he can’t turn into metal overlord without Sonic and knuckles’ data. And that the singular death egg robot was hard enough to animate and yet you are still getting angry that there wasn’t more of them? (Not you Necro, the OG commenter)

[@shellder_gaming]

Eggman definitely could have escaped that wind thing. Eggman CAN go faster than sonic, as seen in Sonic 2 and 3

[@Warking19]

Sonic wasn't trying. Also that's classic sonic

[@johnkrahenbuhl4197]

​@Warking19 Fun fact: Did you know that in Sonic Adventure Two mechless Eggman can run faster than sonic and shadow in game. It probably was just an easter egg but a cool little thing in game.

[@denysvision]

No he cannot, eggman without his robots he is just an avarage human

[@monke_lord-qq8ws]

@@denysvisionnope. He can send trucks flying by punching them, can break a giant wall of ice, can throw around certain Sonic characters with ease, and CONSISTENTLY is shown to be able to run as fast as sonic

[@monke_lord-qq8ws]

@@Warking19he wouldn’t have any reason not to try+ his max speed while chasing eggman is also his max speed in game, meaning he would obviously need to be trying. Even then, eggman speeds up to match Sonic’s speed during that segment, so no Yes, it was classic Sonic. Modern Sonic is faster. However, that was also classic eggman, so it evens out