Could Mario Beat Sonic The Hedgehog in a Fight (Responding to Mario Fans)

[@Tyrecordslol]

I’ve talked to the Biggest Mario Sweats and I’ll be doing a video showing how Mostly Every Mario is the same. No Matter if you think Super Mario Paper Jam Retconned that. (Check My Community Post For More Info)

[@Gitz303]

my mans 🙏

[@Theguywiththefries]

Kratos solos both in a 2v1

[@cat_beastyt3406]

Not to put pressure could we have a Sonic vs Goku video

[@ollybaldwin]

He made a new response are you going to make another one

[@jenniferoguzie9083]

All I know is that if it's Manga sonic he will be able to beat almost every character in games and cartoons

[@talkingben3332]

I gotta hand it to the other guy He’s the only Mario fan that watched Ty’s video and actually gave out evidence in attempt to debunk it While others that commented on the video clearly lacked genuine information Edit:If you want to join a Sonic vs Mario war then the replies underneath my comment is the place to go

[@TheCrossingChannel]

most of it was nonsensical bullcrap

[@BTthekingnocap]

@@TheCrossingChannelit wasn’t my friend

[@WassupMyGuys]

​@@BTthekingnocap Some of it was. Classic Sonic is canon and so is hyper Sonic

[@BTthekingnocap]

@@WassupMyGuys ok funny how that is the only thing you bring up since everyone else in the comment already says that but yeah som of it is bull crap but definitely not close to all of it is

[@WassupMyGuys]

@@BTthekingnocap Yep, I meant that not all of it is.

[@electricion712]

It doesn’t make sense for him to bring up Paper Mario because he’s a separate character from regular mainline Mario.

[@shinyxz9]

Technically speaking, Paper Mario is Mario, as Miyamoto has stated that Mario has no canon and that all Mario's are the same Mario. The Paper Mario that appeared in Paper Jam is a separate Mario tho

[@KalikoAF]

​@@shinyxz9So, not all Mario's are the same Mario? Bro, you just ruined your whole argument ☠

[@NRPG64]

The Paper Mario from Paper Jam is a parallel character. Paper Jam isn't reliable due to all the inconsistencies it has like Pokey contradicting established lore and most likely is an unrelated dimension. Mario and Paper Mario being confirmed to be the same countless times>Paper Mario being shown as separate in only one inconsistent game.

[@NRPG64]

​@@KalikoAF Did you even read his comment. He said the Paper Mario that appeared in Paper Jam is a parallel character to the characters we see in the Paper Mario Series. Paper Jam Paper Mario is not the same one in the Paper Mario Series.

[@WaddledeeEdits]

Now I know you don't Know mario lore I can prove there the same on discord

[@frostbite3357]

Everyone always says Mario is slow and strong while Sonic is fast but weak. My counter to that is that Sonic can break through solid metal with just his spines in almost every game (you don’t even need to homing attack). Also sonic is extremely durable, taking punches from knuckles and even Titans in his base form without needing medical care to recover.

[@dojangofficial1050]

That and according to game theory the attacks he does in frontiers would require absurd strength to survive and do consistently.

[@rocketdareaperzz179]

Mario survived falls from the sky, WITHOUT getting knocked out like sonic

[@CynicTV]

⁠@@rocketdareaperzz179 sonic falls from the sky for a good majority of his games cutscenes and doesn’t get knocked out, adventure 1 MULTIPLE TIMES into station square and into the mystic ruins jungle from the egg carrier, unleashed he falls from space in his werehog form, and then falls from high above the clouds in his base form at the end of the game, advanced 2 he lands on his feet while carrying vanilla, black knight he falls again. and he survives every time, gets up seconds after without any sign of damage every time, in games you can hurl him off giant ledges and land with absolutely no damage taken, while mario in 64, galaxy, sunshine and multiple other instances takes damage from simply falling he falls on his ass, sure, but he doesn’t get knocked out and gets up literal seconds afterwards without outside help

[@NSS.YouTube]

Iron-pt5ip and CynicTV, let’s not compare, it will just start a fight.

[@ilikeeverything.5900]

​@@NSS.KZbinthank you

[@crimsongogeta6810]

Something I don’t see much (even if it’s not as impressive as other feats), is at the beginning of City Escape in SA2. When Sonic breaks the door of the helicopter before ripping off a panel and using it as a board while sliding downhill like a snowboard. The amount of strength he’d need to tear out bolted panels of metal without even grunting in effort would be an insane amount of strength given how durable military aircraft are built.

[@KotaOS.]

He is a anthropomorphic god killing animal, after all

[@soleonshae8657]

Huh, never thought of that. Why have I never noticed before now?

[@PlayerFoe701]

Yeah and he DEF got stronger since then who knows what he can do with his raw strength now

[@kermittheconqueror8554]

Mario still gaps him but I like how you think

[@bluestacks6679]

​@@kermittheconqueror8554 Did you watch the video?

[@Timthy64]

I think a fight between them would be pretty funny if Marios backwards long jump was a canon ability he could access it at any time, he still probably couldn’t win but it would make for a funny sequence of events

[@paulgilbert5278]

I think Mario could win

[@Barkity]

Remember the BLJ has speed gaining properties meaning mario would be able to surpass everything and still keep gaining

[@friendlyneighborhoodnoob]

That would be incredible

[@ollybaldwin]

​@@Barkityyeah but he'd have a long way to catch up plus Sonic's speed canonically increases by the second

[@Lampproductions8943]

@@ollybaldwinWith the backwards long jump, MARIO’S SPEED INCREASES BY THE FRAME.

[@callanoid7290]

Sonic obviously demolishes, mario may be stronger and better than a normal human and can use powerup items but, sonic is a super fast hedgehog that has natural op powers and can change time. Sonic SOLOS

[@Steadyasylum]

Exactly

[@Supers_channel]

@@Steadyasylumyea like bro the way he said sonic can be taken out of his super form I was screaming “HE WAS TRICKED”

[@jafetvaldez1065]

Bruh are you talking about movie mario???

[@LuigiStar31]

"A normal human" - a dumbass

[@CypherThunder]

Bro Mario isn’t just a human, he was born a star child, meaning he has enough power to conquer a universe. MOVIE Mario is a normal human

[@mr.woodle1178]

Mario power scaling is...weird. On one hand, Mario runs at a normal pace in games like Mario 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, etc. But on the other hand in the Mario and Luigi series, both brothers can dodge light beams and lasers. I'm not a power scaler so I don't know how any of this works but I'd imagine it's hard to power scale Mario.

[@awesomeblacka4423]

He explains it by saying very game of Mario is a different Mario with the exception of a couple of games.

[@rexyjp1237]

Theres a difference between reaction speed and movement speed.

[@Morbius-Tension]

@@rexyjp1237I mean he did say he doesn’t power scale so he wouldn’t know this

[@destroyer16690]

@@awesomeblacka4423 What does ap and hax mean?

[@CutWat]

Reaction speed is very different from movement speed

[@tfy2238]

The fact that sonic in games and sonic in death battles/cutsenes durability is different.If we look up on Sonic Frontiers,if Sonic didn’t taunt or didn’t made fun of sage,giganto would throw him a little slower,but then when sonic taunted them both,giganto throw him to two towers and a massive rocked wall,but Sonic didn’t die yet,he was only fainted and wake up in like 15 seconds.

[@awesomezebroz_2949]

not to forget that giganto is powered by the chaos emeralds so it makes sense the titans would be powerful enough to harm sonic

[@tfy2238]

@@awesomezebroz_2949 yeah

[@blue-flare7060]

Not to mention in forces sonic flat out mention he can grow and get more powerful every second. So yeah it make sense for sonic winning against Mario.

[@Yoshihi4edits]

In the DLC Sonic was falling from space and he still survives

[@gemninja1197]

I feel like some people forget that just because you have the ability to do something on your own,if you have a easier option given to you that can do the same thing, you're gonna use that👀Love how you explained and debunked that video in such a chill and funny manner vs his response.I honestly love both characters as well as they shaped my childhood but these arguments be crazy🤣

[@execentralwiki]

I have the new Mario game, and I can confirm. He actually can control it. Using the power ups.

[@ILikeSoda229]

What are you referencing in the first sentence of your comment? Genuinely curious

[@ViksSon-]

@@execentralwikithe game hasn’t even released yet

[@execentralwiki]

@@ViksSon- Yeah, and I played it.

[@ViksSon-]

@@execentralwiki what is blud on?

[@ZacDicoot]

Here’s what I usually say. Sonic definitely beats Mario in a fight in terms of stats but Mario is a complete god with items. Also with the new moves sonic can do in sonic frontiers it just makes everything else more confusing as hell. I hate when people brag about who can beat who’s ass. I love both characters none the less. They’ve both made huge impacts to the world.

[@gabrielgarcia3524]

The fight was much more straight forward post Odessey and forces. Now everything post Bowser’s Fury and Sonic frontiers has changed it from a match up that can go many ways to a weird one

[@ZacDicoot]

@@gabrielgarcia3524 yeah that’s usually why whenever this topic gets brought up it just gets confusing as hell because these characters continue to get stronger every game

[@Nobody_Shroom]

​@gabrielgarcia3524 Well, I mean, if you think about it, mario becomes a giant being in bowsers fury, and in Sonic Frontiers, every boss fight is against a giant being sooo...

[@SonicChan654]

actually there is a way you could argue against the whole invincibility power up. 1. Sonic has his invincibility power up that’s way weaker than his Super form 2. You have to show HOW invulnerable the invincibilities are considering that each different has their own, so take it as you will 3. Even when Mario can use his power ups, you don’t really see Sonic using any of them in his adventures except for the chaos emeralds and wisp but he hasn’t used after a long time, that’s literally about it

[@HDLLHANZ]

Mario without power ups compared to Sonic without power ups is sorta day and night.

[@deaconaligood]

Also, Sonic only uses his Super Form when needed, as proved in Sonic Frontiers, where he tries to fight Giganto without it, believing he can homing attack right through it, and after that says "I'm going to need the Chaos Emeralds"

[@SonicChan654]

@@deaconaligoodyup and even the titans who aren’t even stronger than two of Sonic’s most strongest villains ever, was able to push Super Sonic back. not damaging him per say but still enough force to push him back yet Super Sonic was still able to manage through them (literally lol)

[@JalenJennings-it4xd]

The super star doesn’t make you that invincible as lava can kill you

[@NoohCrazyK]

Another reason why sonic uses emeralds in 06 is because then he can time travel with his friends

[@codishotwell150]

sonic likes a challenge running back in time will be too easy for him

[@V0idless-c9m]

In the end, I just want to say that Mario and Sonic are both legends and have shaped my gaming childhood. I don’t care about Death Battles, debates, and or comparisons. I just want these two GOATs of gaming to still be relevant. And Tbh a Mario and Sonic collab game (excluding Olympics) would be FIRE.

[@fogflame2289]

SmashBros

[@V0idless-c9m]

@@fogflame2289 excluding Smash Bros (I forgot about that one😰😂)

[@fogflame2289]

@@V0idless-c9m lol

[@fogflame2289]

@@V0idless-c9m though i do agree, it would be cool to have them work together to save the world or something, like a 2D game or maybe even 3D.

[@ricardator1023]

Have u seen super Mario bros Z (the original one, not the reboot) ? Its the coolest collab between Mario and sonic (not a game but still awesome)

[@heyzbeauz]

hyper sonic IS cannon. in mania you can see the super emeralds are broken, from the last time he used it in 3&K

[@jacksonvoet8312]

Okay, it’s canon, but the emeralds are broken, no hyper form for sonic.

[@maxkingjoe5460]

@@jacksonvoet8312there is no way chaos emeralds take damage hyper in sonic 3 don’t you see chaos emeralds are still working still today and future?

[@jacksonvoet8312]

@@maxkingjoe5460 No, the emeralds used to go Hyper are the super emeralds, a different kind of energy gem, while the chaos emeralds are fine, without the super emeralds, there’s just not enough power to go hyper.

[@leticianeal9147]

@@jacksonvoet8312 It still can be used in a deathbattle.

[@jacksonvoet8312]

@@leticianeal9147 Okay, fair, but we do realize who won that death battle, right?

[@RP_4B]

Hyper Sonic is canon because Sonic Mania is canon. If you play Sonic Mania as Knuckles, you can see the Super Emeralds but they are cracked. That means that Knuckles just never bothered to fix them, but they still exist. Hyper Sonic is 100% canon

[@BANDANADEE2]

Yeah and sonic 3 is canon thats when the super emeralds were first introduced

[@thefastcommenter7774]

Hyper isn’t canon.

[@BANDANADEE2]

@@thefastcommenter7774 heck u mean

[@BANDANADEE2]

@@thefastcommenter7774 sonic 3 is canon and mania is canon

[@thefungang4191]

Actually, it's been SHOWN and STATED that those are just rocks. You'd be implying that the Chaos Emeralds STAYED Super Emeralds, which is IMPOSSIBLE considering you can get all seven IN Sonic Mania.

[@ef-jkota3611]

There is a gap there, you see Mario also has a time limit of sorts! in his games when he had that leaf and you beat a level, it’s invincibility dies out and goes back to a regular power up! This shows it isn’t permanent and can die out

[@RaccoonThunderMario_Official]

Well that actually has the same reasoning behind it as to why Sonic leaves his Super form when he moves on to the next level even though he has a lot of rings on him still.

[@NRPG64]

​@@RaccoonThunderMario_Official Exactly.

[@BoughtCanoe]

@@RaccoonThunderMario_OfficialDifference here is Sonic has been shown multiple times to stay in super for a LONG time Mario’s time limit was never shown outside for his most busted powerups so the only way to actually calculate it is with what we have. Point being, Sonic has been shown to canonically have thousands of rings on him, able to stay past his time limit, and super isn’t even the only one(Hyper IS canon and its just a even better super.)

[@RaccoonThunderMario_Official]

@@BoughtCanoe Do the rings really do something for Super Sonic or is that just a game mechanic since in Sonic Advance he's able to stay in Super for a week?

[@madd4punk733]

@@RaccoonThunderMario_Official rings are just a game mechanic. i think the only piece of media that tried to force some actual canonical purpose onto them is sonic prime?

[@mrrd2600]

One quick counterpoint to Solaris and super Dimentio Ian Flynn stated that Solaris would take his time when destroying timelines (may be authors fallacy), while Super Dimentio was quicker and destroyed multiple different dimensions instantly Plus unlike Solaris, we’re actually shown the extent of the voids destruction in sammer kingdom. Considering the voids job is to destroy an entire dimension, I’m pretty sure it’s past and future would go with it. Just thought I’d add this.

[@brogeefrong]

It’s stated theres a possible infinite amount of timelines in Sonic

[@mrrd2600]

@brogee2123 fair. Still, the void still erases an entire dimension, along with everything in it. During Solaris' destruction, the landscapes were still around while the destruction was happening, along with the fact sonic and friends were in an area that kept them safe. It's why Solaris vs Super Dimentio is weird. Sure Solaris may be able to destroy more in context, but Super Dimentio has a more dangerous source of power and is a lot quicker with it. It's why they really shouldn't be used to scale sonic and mario, considering they both had help destroying the entities.

[@rimurutempest9733]

@@mrrd2600 don't matter smt sonic folds any mario i not talking about Archie sonic btw

[@thecraggle7277]

​@@rimurutempest9733thecraggle on disc

[@samuraituff9653]

​@@brogeefrongso is Mario in dream land

[@MichelleMwendwa-xs8bi]

Mario is too slow Sonic is faster than light in base and super sonic too powerful

[@Wizardwarlock324]

A lot of you might not know this but sonic has a lot of abilities from the games but they don't appear often because sonic doesn't rely on them as much as mario

[@cirnosnumberfan6449]

That's... Actually a good point.

[@Wizardwarlock324]

@@cirnosnumberfan6449 thanks

[@Wizardwarlock324]

Also whenever mario fights a new foe or Bowser at the start of a game he almost ALWAYS goes in to fight unprepared with like no powerups and completely underestimates the opponent which is why they catch him off guard and take him down with no effort

[@cirnosnumberfan6449]

@@Wizardwarlock324 That's probably because Mario is impulsive, he's not much of a strategist. It's pretty much his version of how Sonic is always cocky.

[@nerdydebaterjj]

​@NormalYoshiMfthat really doesn't change anything. Sonic relies on the cows and was because of their there and he knows when to use them to get the job done. Mario uses them continuously throughout the entire games.

[@AnimeSonic717]

The problem with Mario fanboys is that they take one thing and make it sound like it’s insane thing.

[@shinyxz9]

You could say the same thing about Sonic fanboys tbh. I'm a fan of both, and I think both fanbases are annoying ASF from time to time

[@NRPG64]

​@@shinyxz9 Fr.

[@cirnosnumberfan6449]

​@@shinyxz9Sonic has more consistent feats than Mario does, so that should explain that.

[@NRPG64]

​@@cirnosnumberfan6449 More like less.

[@JJonahJameson123]

@@NRPG64ehhhhh

[@ClassicSonictheRemixer]

I don't actually think all Mario's are different, Miyamoto himself (father of Mario) stated that all Mario's are the same Mario, since he doesn't have an established canon. At least all the Game Marios. That explains why people like to "Composite" Mario when in actuality, all Mario's are the same. The inconsistencies are probably only done as part of game mechanics. Anyway, cool video! I still think Mario wins though.

[@NRPG64]

Agreed.

[@cirnosnumberfan6449]

I still would say Paper and Regular are different just to have some diversity and to avoid confusion.

[@ClassicSonictheRemixer]

@@cirnosnumberfan6449 Understandable but its not wrong to believe that Paper Mario is just Mario but Paper

[@SonZackSSJ2]

The Inconsistencies happen because they need to in order for a Game to have a plot. For instance Mario was tied in Ropes in Super Princess Peach just so the events of that game can happen.

[@SonZackSSJ2]

⁠@@cirnosnumberfan6449Paper Mario is just Game Mario before Paper Jam, this means they actually scale above him.

[@thedredayshow9246]

The "Can he beat Goku?" crowd: (Sweatin...)

[@meachy1]

Fr, these two characters are literally a dimension higher

[@p1000-ratti]

@@meachy1 ''mario destroys higher dimensions''

[@elmemearana]

​@@p1000-ratti both can destroy higher dimensions. Your point is useless.

[@Anormalyoutuber2255]

Archie sonic about to clap Goku

[@thecraggle7277]

Goku slams either of them

[@DrunkenJapaneseGoblin]

Another thing you missed was how in “Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity” literally all of the main cast PULLED UP TO A BLACK HOLE to beat a robot THAT COULD USE THE POWER OF A BLACK HOLE

[@samuraituff9653]

Mario has tanked a black hole before too

[@DrunkenJapaneseGoblin]

@@samuraituff9653 yeah, but that was already brought up in the video, I’m taking about a moment in the sonic series that wasn’t brought up in the video

[@ArthurBr1000Oficial]

Damn, I forgot that

[@porobotboyxxx]

20:08-20:26 Actually if Sonic could travel through time in his base for that game. It would have been faster for him to travel through time by running instead going on a mission of searching for another Chaos Emerald like Shadow suggested, when they arrived in the future.

[@0G_Ardosi]

While I do agree with this, I gotta say that it was probably better to find a chaos emerald because when Sonic time travels, it seems to be ONLY Sonic that can time travel. Think about when Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow and Rouge were stuck in the future in 06. If Sonic ran back to the past, then he'd be leaving everyone behind. Maybe Shadow could learn how to travel back in time by observing Sonic do it, but that would still leave Tails, Knuckles and Rouge stuck in the future with no way of leaving but to find the chaos emeralds, which would be faster if Sonic and Shadow were there to help. I'm not saying your statement is wrong, it just seems better to use the emeralds.

[@callanoid7290]

Minecraft sword is fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@shinyxz9]

Your response is amazing! I still have the same problem from the last video, and that is you keep saying that all Mario's are different. Miyamoto saying that all Marios are the same is not a writer's fallacy cuz it's not like he stopped helping on Mario games after Sunshine and retired or something, he still helps out. I'm not gonna go on a tangent like i did on my last comment but, dude, come on, if that were the case, how tf are Rosalina and Captain Toad in 3D World? Also there's nothing said by anyone at Nintendo proving your take either (Edit: just googled it and from an article from THIS YEAR, Miyamoto still produces basically every Nintendo game, so yes is word does have weight)

[@Tyrecordslol]

I didn’t notice most some of m you would take it so literal, so I’ll clarify. Every single Mario isn’t the same exact Mario, yes some are the same but not all. That’s what I mean I understand the confusion

[@inazumarai7690]

​@@Tyrecordslolit doesn't feel right to say there's a different mario because of differences in gameplay. having fall damage in 64 and not other games is simply differences in game design. if we counted that as a different mario, we could also say that sonic in generations is a different sonic from in the adventure games/unleashed, since one needs certain shoes to perform the light speed dash, while the other has the ability innately.

[@shinyxz9]

@@Tyrecordslol I didn't expect you to reply lol

[@shinyxz9]

@@Tyrecordslol also, thanks for clarifying though

[@NebulaSon]

​@@inazumarai7690Except it's confirmed from generation that it's the same Sonic, since the story is about them reliving the past. And Sonic frontiers even confirmed them to be the same Sonic.

[@HyperSonicXtreme]

Ian Flynn once said he was going to put Hyper Sonic in the Final boss in Frontiers, but denied by Sega. Sega you can keep denying Hyper Sonic, but he still exists. Even Hyper Sonic was used in fighting sprite videos with other characters.

[@Starwarsfan1253]

That was a huge L move on SEGA.

[@tejasb1239]

Even if those Sprite animations are non-cannon. Super Sonic 2 would be an instant execution for even Super Star Mario. But Hyper will exist in our hearts.

[@TexasChel]

I have something to add here. Sonic can Time Travel without the Chaos Emeralds, he can time travel with the Time Stones, they're pretty much strong. If Sonic used the Time Stones in the battle against Solaris, he would easily beat him without getting the help from Shadow or Silver. Right now I'm waiting for you to respond, because I'm actually interested of what you're going to say about my comment, you're a really great person to talk with.

[@kirbytrent1]

I swear some people forget what a death battle is about, it's about characters at their full potential and who would win

[@metal_pipe9764]

Their*

[@kirbytrent1]

@@metal_pipe9764 thanks, didn't notice it

[@speedupslowdown358]

A death battle doesn’t always need them at their strongest, that isn’t a “NEED” it’s just makes sense to do so

[@__Soya__]

Everything was great expect the “not very Mario is the same Mario” the only exception to this is paper Mario which exists in a book in the normal universe. Mario and Paper Mario exists as two separate entities but Mario has also went on all the paper mario adventures.

[@__Soya__]

Every*

[@SatisfactionVIP]

not all of the adventures

[@LCLGod]

Paper Jam is NOT canon I repeat, if it was it would be a time paradox according to Mario canon

[@__Soya__]

@@LCLGod Paper Jam is canon. It's not a paradox in the slightest.

[@__Soya__]

@@SatisfactionVIP Yes all the adventures. They all fit pretty perfectly together. I can send you a link to the marioverse mario timeline subreddit If you want.

[@TheSwordsman100]

This was a great rebuttal, with the only issue I take with it being the Death of Author aspect. I'm pretty sure Miyamoto is being taken out of context and that what he meant is that there is indeed one main Mario that goes on most of the adventures like how Classic and Modern are still Sonic. Sunshine does go out of its way to establish a bit of continuity and timeline. (this type of confusion also plagued the Sonic franchise with the two worlds being taken literally even though it was meant metaphorically) Ian while being promoted to a high position now of days, still never had the final say to begin with, for instance wanted to make Sonic far slower as he feels it gets in the way of high stakes which has been rejected by Sega of Japan constantly. Classic and Modern were actually retconed back into being just one Sonic as seen in Tails Tube (with Origns clarifying the games place on the timeline) so yeah that doesn't have a leg to stand on at all. (Even without the current version of the canon headlined by Ian and the rest of the lore council trusting the word of Forces a game chalk full of continuity errors over every other game in the franchise that always contradicts multiverse theory is questionable at best)

[@meloncat142]

0:24 OK OK ILL LIKE OW OW OW *"loses 4 hearts"*

[@Wizardwarlock324]

The blackhole in galaxy was way bigger than the one in Mario party. If you compare the sizes of the blackhole the one in galaxy was massively larger which means the gravitational pull. The one in mario party wasn't destroying the galaxy which means that it is the same mario.

[@SonZackSSJ2]

Infact it destroyed the Universe in which Ty here downplays.

[@infern24]

@@SonZackSSJ2 gotta love how you all keep acting like he's a sonic fanboy when the guy has obviously played all the games in both sonic and mario and is an expert on both, so he obviously knows more than you do. he's stated multiple times he's a mario fan and thinks mario games are better than sonic games. guess you all have selective hearing though huh?

[@Carlos-mj2ns]

​@@infern24I think Sonic wins too, but he is combining Sonics that aren't even canon into this debate while his beliefs in Mario's access to other games is greatly limiting: 1. There's no evidence telling us that Mario & Luigi, Super Mario RPG, and Super Mario Land are different timelines from the main series 2. He's including non canon Sonic games to up his points: Sonic Shuffle, Archie Sonic, Movie Sonic, Cartoon Sonic, Sonic X, Sonic Riders, these are not canon Sonic games are medium to scale Sonic 3. I think Sonic wins, but saying Sonic wins no difficulty is no different from Death Battle Guts vs Dimitri when people said Guts wins no difficulty.

[@gabrielgarcia3524]

@@SonZackSSJ2 That part was weird but yeah this is my ranking of the 3 feats. Colors black hole(couldn’t suck in the earth or moon)

[@gabrielgarcia3524]

The galaxy black hole is a massive durability feat for Mario. He just came out of fighting a power star infused Bowser, he was stuck in a whole universe dragging out without the Luma helping him, and then gets sucked into the hole which then produces a big bang. Rosalina obviously got Mario out of there during that Big Bang but the fact that Mario tanked all that right before getting shielded is a big feat.

[@DUDEBRUHMICE]

Saying that Mario gets durability over Sonic is just dumb, it doesn’t matter is Mario’s out here kicking stars or what ever he’s doing, Sonic (especially in his thronged forms) is basically a deity, I feel like a lot of people underestimate how powerful Sonic is, he’s to crush metal bugs by dashing into them, is able to survive in space, and if we assume that this is movie Sonic, then he can literally travel at the speed of light, Mario gets washed

[@nisansparow3390]

apparently supersonic is considered to be complex multiversal, the reasoning for this is that sonic boom is canonically a branching time tine by the writers of sonic boom and hasn't been disproven as of yet (or at least to my knowledge. it consistently talks about and supports string theory, which should automatically place the cosmology in like 10D or something (I might be wrong on that). and considering the pervious dimensions and alternate universes we can multiply it to a complex multiversal level. I'll say this here, this is a major HIGH BALL, but if we're allowed to use this as evidence it easily puts them past multiversal on its own.

[@snowbird1381]

You should do another video with the side characters. Everyone has gone back-and-forth on sonic and Mario and we all have the same arguments. It would be cool to see tails versus Luigi or Amy versus peach. Or even Bowser versus Eggman.

[@Legendary_Fard1247]

Remember paper Mario is a different person from regular Mario

[@Legendary_Fard1247]

AND SONIC AND CLASSIC SONIC ARE THE SAME PERSON NO MATTER WHATEVER THE HECK FORCES SAYS

[@supersonical8770]

Maybe the reason why Mario doesn’t take fall damage in 3D World and in 64 he does is probably because he learned from his mistakes

[@inazumarai7690]

he learnt to bend his knees

[@supersonical8770]

@@inazumarai7690Because Mario learns from his mistakes

[@leticianeal9147]

The lore is real.

[@3DoublePoint]

Mario can basically ground pound while falling a bit lower to the ground.

[@whyareyouviewingthis]

I will never understand why Sonic fans have a need to latch onto Mario. This is what a decade of having no good games does to a fandom lol

[@JosiahTheStickGuy]

That… is actually a fair point.

[@bootleg6595]

Frontiers wasn't good? Mania? Tf 😭

[@xliteisaiahhehe]

Every sonic game had a potential of being good but hated on critics of ign. Like come on, they gave unleash a bad score when that game was good. There’s lots of people who say it’s better then oddessy.

[@Punkyyyyy]

There was good games what are you talking about?

[@TristanJohnson-vz7sl]

@@xliteisaiahheheyeah, the people who say that are bots on twitter

[@thedebatemaster]

fun fact: to do a strong attack, you also need to be able to tank it yourself. and since strength = mass + speed (or something like that, just mainly focus on speed in this comment), and since sonic is definitely faster than time due to being able to traverse universes and go through time, his attacks would realistically probably be able to shatter a fucking universe in one casual attack

[@shadow.1691]

Bro beat the hell out of me even though I like the video 💀

[@nat_yt-l3e]

I feel you bro

[@LondizzyOFF.]

I agree with everything, LITERALLY EVERYTHING you’re correcting him about AND saying…. Except for Mario being a different Mario every couple games. Look, I’m all for the stats and feats explained, but the Mario from Donkey Kong/Mario bros. Is the same Mario from Galaxy, 64 Odyssey etc. this can be explained through countless references from one game to the next and the fact that the inconsistencies from game to game can be looked at as just a gameplay deal, since Miyamoto mainly prioritizes gameplay and how the game mechanics feel to use instead of story when it comes to Mario. I will strongly stand firm in my belief that 3D Mario, 2D Mario, Mario & Luigi Mario, Mario Kart Mario, Sports Mario and Party Mario are the same tried and true character, no matter the inconsistencies since it can, again, be looked at as Nintendo focusing on gameplay and taking the easy way out rather than what makes logical sense lol. Movie Mario, Paper Mario and TV Mario are completely different though. I really appreciate you debunking this kid respectfully and even though I prefer Sonic a little more over Mario(Unleashed being my favorite game if yk yk), i just gotta point out the one teeny tiny mistake here. Great video, keep it up!

[@Tyrecordslol]

I agree that they are the same but I’m specifically talking about Paper Nario, Nario RPG, etc. those Mario’s aren’t the same as Gakaxy

[@Kookie_13_]

​@@Tyrecordsloldo you have spell check off or smthng

[@tendayimichaelchinyerere1843]

​@@Kookie_13_ypu too

[@Kookie_13_]

@@tendayimichaelchinyerere1843 I didn't spell anything wrong I just shortened the word something

[@inazumarai7690]

​@@Kookie_13_smth*

[@radudumitru3306]

i think the wonder flower just makes him trip. likee someone doing coca###

[@Bionictree_a02b]

Snic doesn't play around since hes the fastest rizzhog around the sonic universe

[@shinyxz9]

Sonic got that rizz fr fr

[@The_Gabe]

Mario might be inconsistent but so is Sonic. One time Blaze came from another dimension, one time she came from the future. Or once Eggman blew away half of the moon only for it to be completely fine in later games. I think Mario might have a tad more games to pull from. SMB 1 SMB 3 SML 1/2 SMW SM64 Sunshine NSMB 1/2/Wii/U Possibly Galaxy 1/2 (depending on how SMG2's ending would fit into the timeline) 3D Land/World/Bowser's Fury Odyssey The portrayal of Mario and his world are quite consistent in those games.

[@omexyl1752]

I think the Blaze thing was just a straight up retcon. Especially since it was in 06 which was planned to be the 'new gen sonic' but not only did it suck, the game/timeline retconned itself out of existence. So it's likely she was supposed to have her history changed to her being a resident of the future, but after the backlash 06 got, they kept it the same

[@The_Gabe]

@@omexyl1752 , a few games after 06 characters still mentioned that she was from another dimension.

[@sonicwithglasses131]

​@@The_Gabein gens blaze said she she felt like she has been at crisis city before

[@yay29823]

These inconsistencies are meaningless to this debate. Will the fact that Sonic wins over Mario change just because a the writing doesn't know if Blaze is from the future or from another dimension? Or because the moon is intact? No.

[@The_Gabe]

@@sonicwithglasses131 , in team sonic racing they then said she's from another dimension

[@alxexiz9370]

That dude literally sounds like this emoji : 🤓

[@MarioSonicBee]

Considering this channel and fans has a heavy bias towards Sonic, I dont think taking this debate from this or the previous video would be a great idea. Seeing how most of the comments here just see Mario as a "normal guy" should be way more evidence I need for the clear bias.

[@NRPG64]

Fr.

[@Nick-up5wv]

Mario is not some "regular guy " He has natural abilities; whereas Sonic always NEEDS something to enhance them.

[@Nick-up5wv]

@@gabsgamerthenintendofan5670 Actually Mario uses badges and items to defeat gods; at least in RPGs.

[@Nick-up5wv]

@@gabsgamerthenintendofan5670 Not entirely. Sorry.

[@Nick-up5wv]

@@gabsgamerthenintendofan5670 That's true. The fact that he DOESN'T need them while Sonic does only PROVES to Sonic fans WHY Mario can endure and is not "just a regular human."🙄

[@afronautexplorer144]

Sonic doesn't need power-ups in order to get his job done. Mario does. And Mario need Allies to take down a threat bigger than him. Mario fans would use any excuses under the sun only the say "Proof?" after you've proven them wrong in countless arguements 😂😂😂 So glad I'm no longer a Mario fan. Who would want to a the fan of a loser-plumber.

[@RaccoonThunderMario_Official]

At least Mario has the better games.

[@N0SK96]

@@RaccoonThunderMario_Official lmao only argument? Sonic superstars and sonic frontiers are good I will say it’s looking better for sonic now

[@afronautexplorer144]

@@N0SK96 I agree 100% Sure the meta era was not a good run for sonic, but Sonic Frontier (my game of 2022) and the upcoming Sonic Superstars is better than anything Mario has come up with imo

[@warriormania7034]

​@@RaccoonThunderMario_OfficialSonic Frontiers >>>>>>>> Super Mid Oddball-sey

[@N0SK96]

@@afronautexplorer144 lmao we don’t talk about 06

[@Mails013]

As the creators of Death Battle said on their first battle if we take Base Sonic and base Mario without power ups , Sonic simply defeats Mario by speed alone. Sonic's speed doesnt have a limit and the faster he goes the faster he hits. Mario needs power ups to stand a chance. The moment however Sonic goes super or hyper its game over. There is nothing that can hit him and there is nothing that Mario can do from Hyper Sonics instant erasure ability.

[@carterjames8829]

I don't really see a reason why these two would ever fight each other. I could see them competing like in Mario & Sonic in the Olympics, or in Mario Kart series (btw, Sonic deserved to be in MK8 Deluxe more than Link, Isabelle, Villager, and the Inklings), but never the reason to fight against one another. If they ran into some kind of fued or war like Captain America and Iron Man, the two of them wouldn't even go that far into destroying or massacring themselves.

[@omegaproductions6660]

I always find rebuking debunking video’s hilarious because they’re trying to make you look wrong but they end up being wrong

[@brendaflowers1719]

I like how you say that but after seeing the debunks tyrecords ends up being wrong

[@omegaproductions6660]

@@brendaflowers1719 Mario is about galaxy level because of Mario Galaxy. But sonic is Universe level because he fought and defeated Perfect Chaos in Sonic Generations, a being powered by ALL SEVEN CHAOS EMERALDS. Also, why do you still care? I made this comment five months ago. Did you really have nothing better to do with your life besides continue a topic that everyone had moved on from?

[@brendaflowers1719]

@@omegaproductions6660 cool Mario has defeated culex, dimentio who was gonna destroy all timelines

[@omegaproductions6660]

And dude, Culex would lose to Solaris. Someone that SUPER SONIC BEAT.

[@Random66860]

​@@omegaproductions6660mario is easily universal level imao

[@radudumitru3306]

it's not speed is acceleration but your point still stands

[@kirbytrent1]

Funny bc he said "Rings are just a gameplay mechanic" when in Sonic Generations Tails has a brief statement saying something like "I've always wondered where he(Sonic) keeps all those rings. But I gotta give this man props for having the balls to try to go against Tyrecords and defend Mario when Mario is clearly weaker then Sonic, Rpg Mario and Regular Mario are clearly different if that wasn't the case then Mario would have rpg aspects in every game. That's like saying Paper Mario and Regular Mario are the same Mario, it's just no. If Paper Mario and Regular Mario were the same Mario then tf happened in Origami King?

[@shinyxz9]

That's not how that works, he's a video game character, of course hes not gonna have access to every ability from each game he's been in ya goofy, same how sonic doesn't have access to most power ups he's had in other games lol

[@shinyxz9]

Also, it's in the name, RPG, they are different genres of games, of course a platforming game like most Mario games are aren't gonna have RPG aspects

[@kirbytrent1]

@@shinyxz9 ik that's like saying I'ma give Odyssey Mario the Tanooki Leaf, you just can't

[@kirbytrent1]

@@shinyxz9 fr, some ppl be meat riding Mario, not every Mario is the same Mario

[@NRPG64]

​@@kirbytrent1 While I do agree some people meat ride Mario, people do the same with Sonic and far worse. And Paper Jam isn't reliable due to all the inconsistencies it has like Pokey contradicting established lore in Mario. It's most likely an unrelated dimension. Mario and Paper Mario being confirmed to be the same countless of times>Paper Mario being shown as separate in only one inconsistent game.

[@HIM.777]

bro said sonic couldn't use chaos control

[@NebulaSon]

And then they say Ty is bias.

[@HIM.777]

@@NebulaSon faxs

[@3DoublePoint]

Is it ture that the master emerald can break off the hyper Form?

[@HIM.777]

@@3DoublePoint like break it off as in disable the hyper form

[@3DoublePoint]

@@HIM.777 Yes like how knuckles use the Master Emerald to Knock off Super Sonic form in "Sonic the Hedgehog 3".

[@Starkiex727]

Mario has travelled through universes in seconds and simply said "yes". Beats one of the most godly enemies in his small form. Escaped a black hole for "fun"

[@Jackapod]

Honestly a fight between them would be stupid as hell, sonic hits mario, he gets small and uses a mushroom. Mario his Sonic and he loses rings but gets them back, Sonic hits mario and he gets small again but uses a fire flower. Then Mario roasts sonic and he loses rings. Then it just keeps repeating.

[@LexxGee1234]

Well all I have to say is: Without Mario there would be no Sonic. And I'm still gonna make responses to this vid bc there is so many misinformation on this video.

[@dababyslonglostsonh9602]

Sonic also defeated the knight himself, KING ARTHUR.

[@AdilCD1]

FUN FACT: You know mario and sonic are actually best friends It was only the past when sega and nintendo had a console war Now sega worked with Nintendo

[@90abonnessansvideosdu42]

No

[@90abonnessansvideosdu42]

Proof?

[@sonicfanboy3375]

​@@90abonnessansvideosdu42The Olympics games

[@AdilCD1]

@@90abonnessansvideosdu42 google it

[@Nick-up5wv]

With? For? You know. The war's over and Nintendo came out on top. THAT is why Mario beats Sonic.😉

[@Fennix580]

It depends on what mario variant is fighting sonic

[@N.jadaka]

well josh is obvs suggesting a comp sonic vs modern sonic

[@teabown02]

Mario can't beat sonic, but Mario definitely is strong

[@JosiahTheStickGuy]

First of all: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pomtpZRuaJWkqtksi=plOqPferB4JxYQuJ (and this isn’t the only debunk to this video. There 2 other ones from other people) Second of all (get ready for an essay of yapping), while I’ll keep everything else I said up, I can’t really say this was a good response anymore. I used to think so, and while it has some fair things in it, it’s not that good after realizing that I basically had my comment section bombed with some poor arguments and had multiple vids full of comments of people hating on me over some debate between Mario and Sonic. I feel like this couldn’t have been avoided regardless of if my channel was shown or not, since searching up a debunk to his video doesn’t take that long. But Why do Sonic fans care so damn much about him beating Mario anyway? To feel better about how much more stuff Mario is better at than Sonic? (Even though Sonic has other things he’s better at than Mario.) I don’t really understand other than what some of them described as a “let us have this” type thing. Sure, my original video had some poor points or minor toxic or aggressive stuff on my end that I admit in my second video about this (and being hateful wasn’t my intention as stated in the end of the video), but I didn’t expect to basically get dismissed in various points rather than responded to even though people in this and other comment sections called out that I had fair points, or that Tyre had flaws in his video he wasn’t willing to acknowledge. And I’m not gonna talk about the short he made calling me a clown on one of the points I wasn’t aggressive about. I didn’t want to, but I ended up walking out with a tainted image of Sonic and loss of interest in watching the KZbinr who created a community of miners… filled with younger and immature (or just older but still immature) people who apparently get off on making fun of a different opinion, because heaven forbid someone has a take that isn’t glazing Sonic. (And he still hasn’t followed through on correcting his main argument that got disproved by a “Mario sweat” on his own discord. I really wish that last statement would age poorly, but I can’t get my hopes up.) And I’m not gonna talk about the fact he left out me bringing up his “Mario isn’t even planet level” claim. If you’ve made it this far, just know I don’t hate Tyrecordslol at all, as he’s pretty funny, and it’s not like his video is 100% wrong, as he’s done his research on some aspects that I could’ve, but not all of them, and what I do hate is the fan base of the character he clearly likes more that most people including me already looked down on. Of course I’m well aware of the non toxic people in the fandom or in the debate that are self aware. I’ve spoke with plenty of them, and can definitely come to respect THEIR opinions. And third of all, my original stuff: I never knew I used to sound like that much of a kindergartener when I record 😂 But I will say that every Mario from the games is still the same. There’s no good proof except game mechanics (which are self-explanatorily wrong) or Paper Jam, but that game as well as Paper Mario games show that Mario’s adventures are illustrated in that Magical book that can bring things to life, meaning Mario still went on those journeys, they’re just being told with a different aspect/perspective. (And Paper Jam arguably has too many inconsistencies to be a valid way of determine canon for Paper Mario.) And the Black Hole Mario couldn’t escape was the ones in game, not in the end cutscene. I forgot to mention that but that should’ve been kinda self explanatory… (the black hole in the final cutscene was also destroying everything, not just stars and planets…)

[@NRPG64]

Honestly, even tho he did actually make some correct points, it is still very wrong.

[@ADGAMINGRULES789]

It is okay man everyone makes mistakes just be right

[@Halostown]

How is this not the top comment and why did it only have 1 like 💀

[@shinyxz9]

It was a good response, but I still don't like how he keeps saying that all Mario's are different, because there are 2 different versions of Mario, therefore that must mean that all Mario's are not the same, and that there are inconsistencies with him out swimming the black hole in Mario Party but not doing the same in Galaxy, so that must mean they are different! And there's an Indian Mario, and Black Mario, so yeah all Mario's are Total different! I do agree that there is a Mario multiverse, all Mario's are the same and Miyamoto's words hold weight with him saying that cuz you know, he literally helps out with modern Mario games (I think). That's not an example of writers fallacy, and his example of bringing of Ian with him saying that Archie Sonic couldn't beat UI Goku is stupid as well cuz he could've been referring to post Genesis Wave Archie Sonic and not Pre Genesis Wave, cuz that's the one that the series ended on. Just like how Miyamoto said that Mario is just like Mickey Mouse, he's like a cartoon character, in some moments he's shown doing some amazing feat and in the next he couldn't, same how Sonic has some inconsistencies, like how he could barely outrun the black hole in Colors, but easily does it in Shuffle.

[@Dragonnotfound_]

​@@NRPG64Bro tryna be respectful in this reply but he then he said "L Debunk Lmao"

[@porobotboyxxx]

18:09-18:25 Aw, but Silver desperately needs the Olympic Games series to improve on his hand-to-hand combat skills.😥

[@JosiahTheStickGuy]

Sega just doesn’t like him anymore 😔

[@JoelyLupe]

Me personally I am a Mario fan but if you leave up to the math it’s very clear how wins sonic

[@SltrSam]

Here’s my thoughts. There is no clear winner. Each Mario being different can change the battlefield drastically depending on which Mario is fight sonic. Plus how about outside the video games. Archie sonic is different from the games. Movie Mario is also different from the games. This fight depends on which versions of the characters are battling.

[@N0SK96]

They are talking about the games though, the modern ones

[@Nick-up5wv]

BOTH have exceptional abilities to counter one another.

[@jacknite625]

finally SOMEONE THAT KNOWS SONICS TRUE POWER

[@HerbVineHerbVine]

Dude you crushed mario in this video keep up the great work

[@fareask3897]

Sonic is better, stronger, faster, cooler and more popular

[@BROOKISTHEGOAT]

Sonic one shots this link victim but but sonic, Mario and link are goats of gaming

[@YemisiWilliams-fl8xx]

Sonic destroys Mario completely like seriously put Mario and Sonic in a room 99 time out of a100 sonic destroys Mario

[@FazeLiam_75OFFICIALYT]

I think it’s a closer fight, but I still think Sonic wins

[@Nick-up5wv]

Thank you. TRUE fans realize it's an uphill battle for BOTH characters. Sonic fans just like to believe Sonic automatically POWNS, but not so. Each have MULTIPLE counters to each other. I believe Mario COULD win if he outsmarts Sonic. Physically Sonic probably DOES take the W; much as I hate to admit it, BUT he'll be pretty weakened by the encounter.

[@FazeLiam_75OFFICIALYT]

@@Nick-up5wv 😉👍👍👍

[@paulgilbert5278]

Personally I think it’s a tie. Both are capable of delivering deadly blows to each other. But the reality is that Mario and Sonic are chill now so they wouldn’t fight at all.

[@Nick-up5wv]

@@paulgilbert5278 Facts 💯

[@andraw4002]

​@@paulgilbert5278The reality is, Sonic's theoretical speed is infinite, and he can unravel Mario before the fight even began.

[@THEONLYONE10978]

Me using golem of undie: are you done hitting me with that Daimond sword and forcing me to sub?

[@EbukaChimere]

He didn't have to explain to this bot but he did without hate we need more people like this

[@paulgilbert5278]

We need more people to make Mario vs Sonic videos in the first place? No we don’t.

[@EbukaChimere]

@@paulgilbert5278 whatever man ur just lame dude

[@JosiahTheStickGuy]

Sheesh, I’m apparently a 🤖 ;(

[@LCLGod]

​@@JosiahTheStickGuyHe has an Undertale pfp it's common between his species

[@JosiahTheStickGuy]

@@LCLGod lol you have a point 😂

[@Magaleg]

Mario can't beat sonic Sonic is too fast, no matter what ability Mario has sonic can simply dodge it Mario may have a quick reaction time 14:51 But sonic is faster than the speed of light, fast enough to travel through time Mario loses.

[@NRPG64]

Mario has reacted to light speed things before. Lasers, lighting and he piloted Starship Mario who can travel through space-time in order to reach unknown worlds.

[@shinyxz9]

​@@NRPG64I was literally about to comment something similar

[@Waddle_dee_edits]

"Sonic is to fast" basically every sonic fan argument on why sonic beats mario

[@BowserEditz]

Mario had Irrelevant speed

[@Magaleg]

Mario and sonic are equal in strength, and durability But speed Mario is too slow Sonic GOES BEYOND THE SPEED OF LIGHT Mario has reacted to light speed but not beyond it

[@amari648]

Sonic just got a new form too in Frontiers. Mario is done for 😂

[@TristanJohnson-vz7sl]

Yet Mario games still bring in more money

[@Kenzee]

​​@@TristanJohnson-vz7sl not exactly what the argument is about but ok

[@JediDrewsterT]

I honestly don’t think Sonic would lose to Ben 10. Alien X scales in power to beings like Solaris and the Timeeater.

[@Retlewl]

Welp. Guess we doing this again. A debunk to a debunk to a debunk. Huh, say that five times fast. Anyways- *The Dimentio feat* Once again, even if it doesn't show other Mario games, Super Dimentio was stilk wiping out worlds like it was nothing, and as we know by the Sammer Kingdom, the worlds are practically universes, so yeah. Dimentio would probably still be on par with Solaris. Plus, iirc Dimentio scales to the void which consumes all the worlds and dimensions, aka Multi+, so you could argue Super Dimentio > Solaris. And once again, even if you get help from your friends, it's....still, Multi+. Should probably mention that Paper Mario items and Pixls don't give them any other form as well. Can't say the same for Pure Hearts, but I'm pretty sure Pure Hearts are standard for him. Even if you don't buy Multi+ Dimentio, there's also Dreamy Bowser, who was the embodiment of the Dream Stone. The Dream Stone is composed of 7,670,250,000,000,000,000 dreams/universes The Dream depot possibly has 7,670,250,000,000,000,000 endless cycles of infinite sets of dreams multiplying into infinite sets of Dreams. So yeah, Multi+ is still valid. *Miyamoto's statement* That's...not an authour's fallacy. That just confirms that Mario has no set canon. That's ENTIRELY different from saying "A Goomba could solo Goku". Like, duh it's gonna be false. They don't know how to powerscale. Paper Jam's Paper Mario didn't come from another dimension anyway, it came from a storybook which I'm pretty sure is just a book about Mario on his past adventures. Plus, ain't that other Mario game with the different races non canon? *The speed to force thingy* Don't really have an actual problem with the logic behind that but no, Mario is on par with or stronger than Sonic. He's casually harming Bowser, who tanked the Galaxy Reactor which is REPEATEDLY stated to decide the fate of the universe, that's far above anything base Sonic can do. He's only Planet - Multi-Solar System. *The black hole feat* Mario outswam one in Mario Party, ain't gonna sugarcoat it...okay maybe just a little. The Galaxy feat is like, one anti feat. Sonic didn't even outrun the black hole in Colors, but apparently it's still valid? Like, what??? And being similar to a black hole doesn't automatically mean you're a black hole. Whike I don't agree with the Rosalina statement, that adds on to the other point that Base Mario is stronger than Base Sonic, since Mario beats a Grand Star amped version of Bowser, soooo- plus, the galaxy WAS reset??? Didn't you literally show a clip of Rosalina stating that herself????? *The M&L RPGs* Once again, RPGs are canon. There's literally no proof that they aren't. *Violet Wisp Sonic* Warping space and time does not automatically equal a black hole. Plus, Super Sonic being stronger than Violet Wisp Sonic doesn't automatically mean Sonic will just go "I'll just casually create a black hole even if I actually can't!" Plus Power Stars can actually contain black holes, sooooo- *Modern and Classic are the same* Okay yeah that's just dumb, Classic's literally stated to be from a separate dimension. Plus in Generations they were literally divided into different entities. YOU LITERALLY SAY THIS YOURSELF BRO WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK???? *FTL Mario* Not stated =/= not canon, FTL Mario is pretty damn consistent, not to mention that in game, Mario reacts to launch stars, which can fling him to galaxies in seconds. Just because Mario doesn't always travel at light speed in game doesn't mean that he's not lighit speed. Plus he consistently dodged lasers in the RPGs so yeah, pretty consistent. *Hyper Sonic being standard* Just because Death Battle gave them Hyper Sonic doesn't automatically mean Sonic gets Hyper Sonic. That's really fuckin' dumb, like genuinely. Even if he mentioned it, doesn't mean he has access to it. Pretty sure the creator said that himself. While Sonic does hold his advantages, Mario's items and stats can practically counter or do the same thing than said advantages. Stopping time? Stopwatch. Wishing power? Star Rod. Rewind time? Retry Clocks. Auto flight? There's multiple options that allow Mario flight. Immeasurable speed? Mario's moved through a void where nothing existed, not even time. Overall, Mario just outclasses Sonic. Do I think it's a stomp? Hell no, it could go either way, but I just think Mario has better arguments for winning than Sonic.

[@sansmans101]

Man made an essay that still doesn’t show that Mario wins the fight

[@Nick-up5wv]

No. It shows EITHER could win. Sonic doesn't just get an easy victory. His hubris is his downfall in every game. Mario is SMARTER.

[@paulgilbert5278]

Pride before fall goes to Sonic Slow and Steady wins goes to Mario

[@Nick-up5wv]

@@paulgilbert5278 Facts 💯

[@thefastcommenter7774]

Mario party isn’t canon

[@Just_Bingle]

As much as i love mario, sonic claps his cheeks

[@MarioGamer2.0657]

Depends

[@joycenelms2490]

Sure Mario meat glazer

[@MarioGamer2.0657]

@@joycenelms2490 Who me?

[@stupidmarioplushchannel]

15:48 I think what the other KZbinr ment was that since Mario is more focused on gameplay and not like a roller coaster, like the bullet bills they are slow for us but I’m pretty sure that’s a game mechanic, and that’s I think that bullet bills are shown to be fast like in the beginning of Mario galaxy, so I don’t think Mario can run the speed of light, he can react to it. Hope this makes sence 😂, and mario was shown To move when time stopped with the final battle of the first rpg game, so Mario can move when time was stopped, Mario is a star baby which is shown to destroy universe at their baby’s form and Mario is fully grown, I think the reason why Nintendo isn’t saying why Mario is strong or fast is because it’s basically a flex, and the sonic makers seems to love flexing about sonic ALOT, it’s either Mario winning or a tie, buuuuut I’m not saying sonic won’t be a challenge but with that, also Mario did destroy a galaxy with one hand and remade it with his bare hands, kinda like Mario maker. And the paper Mario in paper jam isn’t the paper Mario that we know that’s a new version of paper Mario, and the whole “all Mario’s are the same crap” there are a few references to some games in mario odyssey showing some games that are canon and in a cool way too. that’s my take, and I know I might be wrong with a few things 😅 I liked this video but even tho I still think Mario from a few games wins, but this was a good video, keep up the good work

[@Wizardwarlock324]

Sonic also has a hammer space where he can store things like powerups and weapons like caliburn

[@cirnosnumberfan6449]

In Sonic Lost World, there's like a suitcase thing where he stores his things.

[@SonZackSSJ2]

So does Mario

[@cirnosnumberfan6449]

I like how every time someone say Sonic has a something, Mario fans just say "so does Mario" as an argument.

[@SonZackSSJ2]

@@cirnosnumberfan6449 well it’s true, where do you think Mario stores his stuff to use as his Arsenal.

[@Nick-up5wv]

You realize Mario has a chest in Peach's Castle where she can just send him gear; note to mention letters containing power ups for some reason, right?

[@DJBurns-jq8mn]

Sonic is Hyperversal Level with evidence of being 26D or higher due to the mentions/inventions involving of a possible String Theory.

[@axiom6000]

Ty you were spitting until you said “everything is canon isn’t true” It’s 100% is true, you just don’t understand the cosmology of the verse. Archie Sonic, Movie Sonic and so on are all different Sonics in parallel universes. So they’re ALL canon, just different universes so the timeline doesn’t mess up.

[@thedarknessinthelight9824]

I think he was referring to the NSFW side being non-canon when he brought that up

[@axiom6000]

@@thedarknessinthelight9824 Well of course that’s not canon, it’s not official material.

[@nic1234t_reborn]

Its not about who has the better game. Its about who's more powerful...

[@dababyslonglostsonh9602]

Sonic has defeated a GOD, known as Chaos.

[@Tf2gamer019]

Take notes death match 😂😂😂😂

[@khaleeq7182]

Bro all people have a different opinions in my opinion sonic would win over Mario like I said it's my opinion who agrees 👇👇👇 Both are the goats tho

[@shadow.1691]

It would probably be a close fight but Sonic word take the w

[@khaleeq7182]

​@@shadow.1691true

[@Waddle_dee_edits]

I think mario wins

[@shadowraid8791]

The only way Mario wins is if he has access. to every power over his franchise

[@Uesr2004D]

so does it mean that ever sonic is the same sonic two?

[@capone6716]

CLASSIC SONIC IS LITTERALY MORDEN SONIC BUT *YOUNGER* ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️

[@Uesr2004D]

@@capone6716 what about other sonic's Universe? Edit: Sonic Boom, Sonic X, Sonic Forces, Sonic Prime, Sonic movie are the same Sonic?

[@capone6716]

@user-pv9vx9nz1s he wasnt talking about prime, Boom, x, or movie. And forces IS main timeline sonic

[@p1000-ratti]

Mario literally destroyed a Void with one punch, which includes to Infinity dimensions!, and after he destroyed it and didn't destroy himself, destroying a Void requires infinite strength and durability! which mario did with one punch before bowser could marry peach, man mario has literally infinite strength and durability in his base form without power ups!

[@N.jadaka]

and ultra sonic can punch through multiple dimensions,run at the speed of light and sometimes beyong and run through said dimensions,ol pulmber bout to lose 3 lives,how are you supposed to hit something you dont even have a grasp of?

[@p1000-ratti]

@@N.jadaka you dumfok, sonic has just NEVER done ANY of that mario did destroyed a Void with one punch why a thing you can't understand even a bit of it you say a thing of it?

[@p1000-ratti]

​@@N.jadaka In addition, a Void contains infinite dimensions, not just a few, sonic is something between a universe and a multiverse not even higher, even Ultra Sonic cannot survive the explosion of a multiverse, and even if Sonic wishes something to happen, nothing will happen to Mario. He's immune to this stuff. The most Ultra Sonic has ever done is run through multiple universes to find his own. That's your problem, you don't even know who Mario is, not me, kid

[@N.jadaka]

@@p1000-ratti and heres your problem,you dont know sonic, like i said before he can run dimensions,it was never stated that sonic was tired or drained and there was a set amount he coud go through, we are talking bout ultra sonic,but lowkey which game did mario do this

[@p1000-ratti]

@@N.jadaka Again, Sonic did none of those things, Paper Mario

[@TGAR_Trevor]

Plus if we are talking about movie sonic, he has slowed down time TWICE in base form in the first movie without a struggle.

[@JJFeelsRightIThink]

Mario has multiple skills and has learned so much throughout all of the mario games. SOnic is just fast.. Mario folds sonic, but next is Link vs Sonic

[@awesomeblacka4423]

didnt sonic do the same lol

[@JJFeelsRightIThink]

nope@@awesomeblacka4423

[@Robert-ux9tf]

Aint no way you just said that bruh 💀

[@JJFeelsRightIThink]

Matpat made a video about the topic@@Robert-ux9tf

[@ninlaw9810]

he didnt learn nothing

[@sonicthehedgehog1606]

An outerversal vs a multiverse. Sonic solos

[@WaddledeeEdits]

Give me your discord right now lmao

[@sonicthehedgehog1606]

​@WaddledeeEdits don't have it. Not going to argue with a mario wanker

[@NRPG64]

​@@sonicthehedgehog1606 "No time to argue with a Mario wanker" says the one who said Sonic was boundless yet he has shown no feats that get him there.

[@capone6716]

Alr lil bro sonic > mario but sonic is NOT outerversal 😭🙏🔥

[@WaddledeeEdits]

​@sonicthehedgehog1606 not going to waste my time with a thundershen 2.0

[@JalenJennings-it4xd]

People downplay Sonic for the same reason they downplay Spider man. They’re happy go lucky. They’ve never seen what they both can truly do.

[@Morbius-Tension]

Some will not accept the truth 😂

[@3DoublePoint]

Ik

[@sircheese-pt9hj]

Lets be honest Kirby solos

[@SatisfactionVIP]

he doesn't

[@cirnosnumberfan6449]

With his super suck powers? 💀

[@SERMareep2007]

​@@cirnosnumberfan6449Give him hypernova

[@Kjtheidiot]

@@cirnosnumberfan6449nah he’s doing that to me😩

[@Kobg25]

As soon as bro said "LIKE THE VIDEO" the like button started glowing

[@GRAH_GRAH_BOOM1]

Mario fans being bias with this one 🔥 🔥 🗣️🗣️

[@SonZackSSJ2]

Says you 💀

[@leticianeal9147]

@@SonZackSSJ2 How is he "biased"

[@Nick-up5wv]

No. BOTH parties are being biased. However Nintendo DID bail Sega financially out of debt in order for Sonic to continue to exist so from THAT perspective...🤔

[@paulgilbert5278]

@Nick-up5ww Sonic fans are salty that the GameCube/GBA/DS era was Sonic’s peak is all.

[@SonZackSSJ2]

@@leticianeal9147 Sonic fans are biased in general, great games but pathetically toxic fan verses.

[@LukasLovesWar]

i came in here and there were more likes than views on this video 👁👄👁

[@shadow.1691]

KZbin is drunk again💀💀

[@LukasLovesWar]

@@shadow.1691 💀

[@FischymakesMusic]

Sonic Vs Kirby is a whole other discussion, and there’s gotta be some ground rules

[@lazynihilanth1899]

Honestly the idea of Mario, no matter the power-ups, beating Sonic in a fight is silly to me. Not even going off any nitty gritty lore, but just what can be observed from gameplay. Those videos where they put SM64 Mario in Sonic Unleashed/Generations shows it pretty well. Sonic simply outdoes Mario in every department one way or another. I doubt the plumber could even land a hit.

[@Nick-up5wv]

Mario has a counter to EVERYTHING and isn't egotistical; something Mario could use to his advantage to outsmart Sonic.

[@mikedanielespeja6128]

Dude, Sonic matured throughout the games. And saying Mario has a counter to everything is fallacious at best, and not worth listening to at worst. @@Nick-up5wv

[@Nick-up5wv]

@@mikedanielespeja6128 No. He's still a narracist with attitude. And Mario REALLY does have a counter power up item to Sonic If you ACTUALLY played the games. You're just a biased Sonic fan. You're like a Star Wars fan trying to convince me it's better than Star Trek. Star Trek better than Star Wars. Marvel better than DC. Mario better than Sonic. Mortal Kombat better than Street Fighter. These are just FACTS bro!

[@lazynihilanth1899]

@@Nick-up5wv Actual complete delusion. How does Mario counter Sonic's speed? His spin-dash strong enough to shatter in a second what Mario at best needs a long wind-up to break? He doesn't have a counter to anything. And Sonic is far from a narcissist. Literally experiencing any of the games or comics would prove that notion wrong. If anyone here is ignorant, it's you.

[@Nick-up5wv]

@@lazynihilanth1899 No. Sonic has ALWAYS been too cocky for his own good and rushes into battle without a plan. He's got 90's attitude, don't know what YOUR thinking. Also Mario could just hit Sonic's spindash with a hammer or jump over him. Mario can COMPLETELY counter him. You're just a goofy Fanboy that probably grew up with 2,000's Sonic instead of 1992. Sonic NEEDS items and friends to win. Mario does not. Also Nintendo gave Sega money so Sonic could survive. Sonic fans can kiss Mario fans' ass as far as I'm concerned. You people shouldn't be praising Sonic you should be thanking Mario.