Drinker's Chasers - The George RR Martin Wheel Of Excuses

[@vincent207]

I’d have more respect for Martin if he just came out and said he simply lost his passion for writing Song of Ice and Fire.

[@darthlaurel]

And that he hates most of his fans.

[@fishjones4618]

Sometimes the creative tank runs out. Nothing to be ashamed about.

[@ReichLife]

Which will not happen. He is way too stubborn for it and has too much ego.

[@JamesTobiasStewart]

Yeah if he'd just come out and admit it, a part of me would respect that.

[@darthlaurel]

@@fishjones4618 Absolutely fair. However lying about it IS something to be ashamed of.

[@chance_ondriezek99]

I’m 25, but I have a feeling I’ll die of old age before George RR Martin gets that book done.

[@TM_AZ]

Or George will.

[@spocktheripper]

You won't, but he will. Dude looks like his blood type is butter.

[@jcudejko]

Nah, they will publish whatever he's made so far after he dies

[@achimosis]

I started reading asoif in 2001.

[@justlivin2499]

19 here, I accepted that I ain’t living long enough to see the book

[@Larghart]

George started this project ages ago, and the truth is he's no longer interested in it. That is the sad reality.

[@harryhoudini714]

He got drunk on his own success! happens all the time!

[@newtpondskipper]

He likes the idea of it. Not the work of it. Guy just loves the platform he's been given.

[@nameless458]

He can't focus on it, he is doing a lot of side projects, F&b, Dunk and egg, Hotd, producing tv shows, businesses, travels and many more. He claims that he will be focusing on WoW now that Hotd is out of his hands.

[@leongay3190]

george lucas is more respected than rr is

[@kd8opi]

Don’t forget he was a failed screen writer before he wrote his novels. Once he got his incomplete story made into a series and got wealthy from it, he showed his true colors and walked away from writing.

[@awesomehpt8938]

Just remember everyone if you ever feel bad for procrastinating at least you most likely have not reached GRRM levels of procrastination.

[@RafaelPena-Rios]

Ngl, I envy getting royalty checks for sitting on my butt and doing nothing but writing a note saying "it's coming" to my publisher

[@237homer238]

well... gabe does. and so does Sapkowski.

[@michaelman90]

He's not procrastinating, he just doesn't plan to finish the book. First, he doesn't know how to end the story under his own criteria because he wants to write a story with no heroes but he knows doing so will not satisfy anyone (see the TV show's ending). Second, he began writing the story to make money and has more money than he knows what to do with now. So yeah it's never going to be finished because he's just another cynical socialist boomer who doesn't feel any artistic obligation to the readers.

[@docsavage8640]

@michaelman90 he's a bad writer who planned poorly and wrote himself into a corner he doesn't know how to get out of

[@sekijokes451]

Patrick Rothfuss achieved it with only his third book though 😂

[@rexlumontad5644]

It's ironic that George R.R. Martin despises Game of Thrones fanfiction stories yet he never bothered finish writing the Winds of Winter, and then take part of writing Elden Ring lore.

[@dbsommers1]

Improves upon his work no doubt. The most embarrassing thing that can happen to a writer is someone else doing a rewrite on a work that everyone likes more.

[@rogue_of_the_winds1286]

He didn't write a thing for elden ring, he was paid for his name you'll never convince me otherwise.

[@nont18411]

George has turn into Doran Martell and Tywin Lannister. Doran: A guy who waited way too long to make a move that everyone around him are getting pissed off at his inaction, so once he started making a long overdue move, it failed and the opportunity was wasted. Tywin: A guy who bitched and moaned all the time about his own legacy while choosing not to do one thing that will actually secure it (in case of Tywin, it’s raising Tyrion well and making him an heir. In case of Martin, we all know what that is).

[@tami3456]

​@@rogue_of_the_winds1286 and you know this how?

[@oliverrowland2725]

@@tami3456 tbh I forget Martin had even worked on elden ring. Felt like fromsoft just did a dark souls game in a more geographically stable world

[@rexlumontad5644]

"I cut my teeth in the trenches of the Somme! You LARPed your Santa Claus butt through Vietnam!" - J.R.R. Tolkien to George R.R. Martin in Epic Rap Battles of History

[@SheldonAdama17]

You beat me to this comment - great minds think alike! “And it’s hard for me to take criticism on clothes from a dude who sends a raven to say hi to his toes!”

[@justlivin2499]

Golden video

[@th3mous380]

You can't step to this fellow,I'm too towering every time I do battle It's return of the king.

[@YormanGina]

"You're a pirate, George. You even stole my R.R!"

[@nathanfrancis9411]

Bro I just watched that video for the first time yesterday 😂

[@2012sonora]

Here's my two cents; GRR Martin wrote his series as a rebuttal to the heroism and idealism of traditional high fantasy, as embodied first by Tolkien. The entire point was subverting and undermining those tropes. But now at the end, in order to give his meandering mess anything resembling a satisfying conclusion, he would have to use elements of that story structure, plot beats and tropes. I think he realized that and I think that's what froze him up. Honestly the only "authentic" way to end his story would be for winter to come, the White Walkers to overwhelm Westeros and everyone to die a pointless and horrible death. But nobody wants to read that.

[@councilofkarens729]

Who could've guessed that attempting to subvert the hero's journey was a dead end?

[@Hagashager]

​@councilofkarens729 it's almost as if subversion and deconstruction only exists as an extension of what they're tearing down. Martin's entire achtick hinges on the fact that people like heroic fantasy. Take that away and he has no ability to create anything that is uniquely his fantasy.

[@EduFirenze]

Well, if done well, hopelessness would fit his work but he doesn't have the balls to face the backlash of that decision.

[@Ranben.]

Plus the rebuttal to that kind of Tolkien story was already done - twice - by Michael Moorcock. See Elric and the novel called 'The Eternal Champion'. So even Martin's cynicism is something copied badly from someone else.

[@thedabblingwarlock]

Reminds me of what a friend speculated the end of GOT to be. Danerys and Jon Snow are in King's Landing and have crowned themselves the monarchs of Westeros as the White Walkers come in and over run the city.

[@Philistine47]

Robert Jordan (and his wife) knew his health was failing, planned to have another writer take over when he became unable to write, organized his story notes to actually make that possible, and eventually hand-picked an author (Brandon Sanderson) to carry the story to its conclusion. By contrast, GRRM has publicly and explicitly rejected the idea of "letting" another writer finish his books, even in the event of his own death, and so presumably has taken no steps to facilitate any such transition. So no, I wouldn't expect to see a Wheel of Time situation with ASoIaF.

[@nont18411]

And even Brandon Sanderson himself still has a team to read his story and list all the chain of events and what each character is doing to keep the canon intact and make him continue the story easier. Martin is too stubborn to make this kind of system.

[@Jason9612]

GRRM could learn a lot from Sanderson.

[@patrickpalony7622]

It’s one reason why respect the shit out of David Weber, who is already working on getting a host of good young authors integrated into his universes, even though he’s still actively writing.

[@EvgeneXI]

@@nont18411 The Cosmere is a modern literary masterpiece. I just hope he can finish it all. There’s still a lot left to cover.

[@calvinjohnstone2664]

What did you think of it? Egwene being trapped in the White Tower when the Seanchan attacked, Mat ' winning' his game against the Elfinn And Aelfinn, and of course the last chapter written by Jordan himself🙏

[@dbsommers1]

Tell him he won't get fed until he finishes it. He'll whip out War and Peace by dinnertime.

[@heartysquid]

George "All Your Can Eat" Martin

[@angbandsbane]

Now I'm just picturing a rush job coming out and fans being like "Let's see...'It was the best of times, it was the *BLURST* of times'?!!! You stupid Martin!"

[@poshjesscott8287]

No more fishsticks for this man until he gets his ass in gear !!

[@judgedrekk2981]

how can you have your show if you don't finish your book?? all in all we're just bricks in the wall....and the wall keeps tumbling down....[kinda mixing up 2 songs with that last bit lol]

[@pieceofschmidtgamer]

I love that George takes the time to criticize other authors, like Rowling, despite not yet, and probably never, finishing his own story. I mean, Harry Potter has its flaws, but at least Rowling finished it.

[@quantumvideoscz2052]

To be fair, ASOIF is a lot longer, but still, he's taking crazy long.

[@alexb2656]

​@@quantumvideoscz2052It may be a lot longer, but if you're writing yourself into a corner and can't wrap up your story because you kept increasing its scope, you've still failed.

[@quantumvideoscz2052]

@@alexb2656 Definitely. No contest on that. What I meant is that it is bound to take a long time because of the length of the story, but of course, what Martin is doing now is just impossible to finish.

[@comealsolito804]

Well to be fair his novels are a lot more ambitious than Harry Potter which is essentially a children book

[@alexb2656]

@@comealsolito804 It sounds fair on paper, but piling on more complex plotlines and finding yourself unable to actually bring them to a tidy conclusion is not a good thing. You still need to stick the landing.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Chad Tolkien: *finish writing his Lord of the Rings book during The Blitz on the UK* Virgin Martin: *makes lame excuses of not finishing his books and do nothing*

[@moocorp4574]

LotR is a small book compared to ASOIAF. The three LotR books is about the same size as Storm or Dance

[@tami3456]

What are you smoking?

[@richardhockey8442]

George had the BLM 'peaceful protests' to contend with

[@councilofkarens729]

@@moocorp4574 Yet there is more quality in one page of Tolkien than there is in an entire G.R.R book. To quote Gary "George is Tolkien's b*tch".

[@moocorp4574]

@@councilofkarens729 Haha, I love Tolkien and have everything he ever wrote but Storm of Swords is possibly the best book ever written, any genre

[@BigIndividual]

George: “Ah you see, the reason I couldn’t finish the book is…uh…I had to visit my friend! And, uh…fascism!” Audience: “But what about those other projects-“ George: “FASCISM!”

[@Adelina-293]

Can I use fascism as a reason to not pay taxes?

[@JamesF-v4x]

@@Adelina-293My doctor doesn’t accept “fascism” as an excuse for me being overweight. Sounds exactly like what a FASCIST would say Doc. Check and mate.

[@getthegoons]

​@@Adelina-293it be pretty based if you could. So no.

[@gregsimoes8645]

He's actually been distracted by all the p*nises, but don't worry, it's coming!

[@Grasslander]

It's "fascism". From "fascio," bundle of sticks. From "fasces" in Latin. What the Roman guards carried, a bundle of sticks around an axe, a symbolic weapon of justice.

[@incurableromantic4006]

I'm glad Drinker referenced ESG scores - the real reason every company pushes woke despite their customers always hating it.

[@crazypantz3492]

Better yet if you point out ((who)) are pushing it

[@thehoerscorral8565]

Exactly. A company, especially a publicly traded corporation, exists to generate profit. The fact that these companies like Disney and Ubisoft (among many others) continuously defy what they know audiences (you know, the paying customer) want instead of just making “good” products that will sell well, should tel everyone that a different agenda is going on. Everyone who blames “activist” show runners and directors like Leslye Headland and etc, do you really think these people “given” control of hundreds of millions of dollars, aren’t doing so with the full blessing of… someone? Clearly even the shareholders of these companies are placated by those fat high interest rate loans from Blackrock and Vanguard, or else people like Bob Iger, let alone Kathleen Kennedy or anyone else, would already be long gone for costing the company tens of billions… like would happen to any other corporation in any other field that had a CEO/board that just decided to just start ignoring what customers want and just make products that don’t sell.

[@harryhoudini714]

@@thehoerscorral8565 I have no idea what BS is going on in the Background! I only know that the west is in decline and what these people are doing isnt helping!

[@informationjunkie]

​@@thehoerscorral8565 wasn't dustborn's budget tax money somehow? If that's the scam then there's no wonder the creators have no interest in pleasing fans & turning a profit. They can realise their shit vision completely without consequences.

[@thehoerscorral8565]

@@informationjunkie What they do is, when a game or movie is a failure, like with Sony pulling Concord or when Disney+ pulls a show off like that Willow show they COMPLETELY wiped off the face of the earth, they can then write it off as a tax break for that whole development amount, which is a nice cover for their other projects. But in Dusborn's specific case, I think that the initial budget was majority from various government programs and "Sweet Baby Inc-like" interest groups, so it's possible it was tax free or something, but I'm not sure.

Didn't Tolkein write Lord OF The Rings partly during World War Two? A literal war against fascism that killed countless millions? And also while raising a family and being a professor and so on? I makes Martin's reasoning sound even more hollow.

[@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast]

He wrote Rings within 17 years after the Hobbit was published

[@moocorp4574]

Lord of the Rings is a simple book compared to ASOIAF. Not comparable. All three books are together smaller than one ASOIAF book.

@@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast I guess he did also have to generate functioning languages, an entire functional mythology and so on, while George spends more time deciding which relatives are going to get "intimate"🤣

[@reactiondavant-garde3391]

@@moocorp4574 I hope this is a meme.

[@moocorp4574]

@@reactiondavant-garde3391 LotR is a simple book with a straight forward story. ASOIAF is much more similar to parts of Silmarillion and Storm is like 1150 pages. Same as all LotR books combined

[@Turamwdd]

The end of the TV show was his official ending. It was so thoroughly rejected by the fanbase that he had to go back and attempt to rewrite the ending. That is why he complained a few years ago (after the show ended) that he had killed off characters that he needed for the ending. Remember that he actually told the showrunners how the series ended (they boasted that they were 2 of the 4 people in existence that knew how everything ended). Martin knew how it ended and knew what he needed to do to get there. Why would he suddenly complain about killing off needed characters unless he was changing the ending? Why did all of this come out after the show ended?

[@jonathandunn730]

Yeah it's obvious that he told all the plans to the show runners for the final season and the fans absolutely fucking hated it so now he's desperately trying to do something else. But he obviously can't, having boxed himself into a corner and having no ideas, so he's just sitting on it until he dies so he doesn't reveal that while he's alive.

[@bmacaulay18]

As soon as he got his check for the TV series he didn't care what dumb and dumber did to fast finish the show. Dumb and dumber couldn't wait to get onto the next project so they just blew through the ending. That is why it was trash at the end.

[@Luminousreign]

Dany going crazy is probably the best example of an original plan that I doubt we actually see in the books if they were ever written. Couldnt have been more spelled out that was her arc, and people absolutely hated it. Fan response is also usually dumb so could easily ignore it though.

[@iamthewizardwhoknocks2845]

​@Luminousreign I don't think Danny going crazy wouldn't be rejected if it was gradual, and the _accedental_ buring of Kings Landing due to the wildfire is vintage ASOIAF. The book readers would accept that ending, not sure about the people who watched the show in bars.

[@Luminousreign]

@@iamthewizardwhoknocks2845 It was maybe the only thing the show did do gradually throughout the whole run. Even when they run out of book material, She is burning a ton of things everyone needs to survive winter for little to no reason. It is the Rorschach problem where a deranged moral absolutist who is meant to be despicable matches the morality of the audience and is recieved positively. Like people named their kids after Dany.

[@fishjones4618]

He’s the inverse of Stephen King. Like him or no, the guy’s almost 80 and he’s still crazy productive, cranking out full novels, short stories, novellas, essays, etc. It’s a work ethic I admire.

[@PolarizedMechs]

I can't stand the guy, but even I will admit that he tends to crank out some absolutely superb books. Some are duds, but generally speaking they're solid efforts.

[@nont18411]

@@Mmhmmyeahok Because The Shining and Shawshank Redemption are trash stories, then.

[@SubliminaIMessages]

Someone made a good point that George made ASOIAF the antithesis of Lord of the Rings with its themes. However, that philosophy with his story was pretty much rejected by the public with how the show ended, so now he has to rewrite the ending from scratch. This would mean that he would have to accept defeat and admit that JRR Tolkien was right the entire time That or he’s a lazy fuck who lost all passion for writing the series after becoming rich

[@justinbowers2749]

I believe it’s a combination of both

[@bmacaulay18]

The second part of your post is probably the correct one.

[@piotrfijoek1095]

He has no discipline whatsoever and that's the main reason why he won't finish the books. Some amateur writers can write 2000 words a day for the universe they created. Why? People wrote something every day. They trained to do that and they love their craft and people's reaction to their stories. We will never see the ending of ASOIAF. The nihilistic ending of GoT was utterly rejected by the fans and the general public and the biggest complaint was how much the show assassinated all characters and the biggest assassination received Jaime Lannister and Daenerys Targaryen. That season was salvageable if they didn't make Daenerys go mad out of the blue but even then it would've been a bad season. If they really wanted to have King's Landing burn, it should have been Cersei using wildfire as the last FUK YOU! to deny Daenerys and the North full victory. So Dany could become the Queen of Ashes but thanks to her core values, protecting the innocent, and answering injustice with justice, would have become with Jon the best king and queen Westeros could have ever had. Heck, you can even have that flashy scene of distraught Daenerys telling Drogon to burn the Iron Throne to make a point in front of all the Westeros' heads of the houses. But nah, all the investment in those characters and their good cause meant nothing in the end.

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

Real life is not a melodramatic mexican/korean novela, Tolkien is not "right" or "wrong", he just mixed christian and norse legends to create his universe. Same goes for Martin, he straight copy the war of the roses, but on a dark fantasy setting. Tolkien was very gullible with the christian stuff, the existence of absolute evil vs absolute good, etc.. if you write any story by following the human nature, usually things tends to go dark. Neither of these approaches to speculative fiction are "right" or "wrong". Martin simply got lazy and accommodated with the TV show succe$$, but don't worry, just like what happened with the unfinished material written by Tolkien, the parasitic offspring will publish all the drafts for a extra compensation beyond the grave. Winds of Winter is a certainty, I guess there's enough material to be "edited" and published. Most likely the final book will be written by another person entirely, not "edited"

[@TimBow-r6h]

The last one.

[@tjjordan4207]

Something that gets on my nerves about people like George is that they have this belief that there is no good or evil, only perception. Yet they will deem anyone else evil. They don’t like the idea of others who can be better than them.

[@wackyswacky1374]

Martin does not believe this...

[@jonathanoriley8260]

​​​​​​​@@wackyswacky1374 It is exactly what he believes; every short short he made before ASoIaF and piece of work he has created since has shared this very theme. Martin is great at writing Human moral dilemmas. But he is incapable of writing a character he believes is not "authentic" such as the good hero who is not naive. He is a nihilistic socialist boomer who refuses to acknowledge that true heroism does indeed exist; there are historical examples of men such as King Richard the Lionheart, John "Mad Jack" Churchill, El Cid, and John Chapman to prove it. ASoIaF is a story that's begging to grow into a High Fantasy story with the heroic figures to justify all the Low Fantasy machiavellianism that dominated the beginning. It wants to carry out that transition from a hard and gritty world to one of magic and hope that it is so perfectly setup to do so. It _wants_ to be like the world of Arda and Middle Earth, but it requires taking the ideas of Heroism and Hope seriously. And that is where Martin fails. He is incapable of writing either Heroism or Hope without it being belittled as naive, foolish, and doomed to failure. Because, as said, Martin is a nihilistic socialist boomer; people like him are cowards who don't understand Heroism nor Hope, only misery and suffering.

[@leongay3190]

very awful

[@tjjordan4207]

@@wackyswacky1374 While he hasn't outright said it, his beliefs and how he writes tells me what I need to know.

[@ManiacMayhem7256]

​@@tjjordan4207 "How he writes" it's pretty clear Ned is a good guy even if misguided in how rigid he is, and Joffrey is a bad guy. It isn't very grey in that regard. Jon Snow is wholly good. Ramsey is wholly bad. I don't think you read the books

[@PhillipOnTakos]

I remember seeing a panal with Steven King and GRR Martin. Where Steven King says that he'll write like 15-20 pages in a day. George then said if he writes that many words in a day it's a good day. Even with that pace he should have finished the book by now or be close. He just can't admit that he's lost the passion or has no idea how to end his story at this point.

[@Scientist_Salarian]

It’s been 4168 days since Dance with Dragons came out. If he’d written even one- ONE! - finalized page every week, he’d be 600 pages in.

[@PandaPanda-ud4ne]

As a writer myself i can tell you that it is most likely that Martin lost his habit of writing daily. And you need to write daily to make it work, especially when you write thick tomes. There is no way around it. You cannot take breaks from work. You have to write every day until the novel is finished, at least in the rough draft form. THEN take a break. Leave it for a few months. Then edit it. And so on... Martin fell out of this habit and now it is EXTREMELY difficult to return to it. I should know. It is like going through torture! Yes, he will never finish it. 100%.

[@allreddan]

Brandon Sanderson finished the Wheel of Time series. I'm only correcting it so that there aren't a ton of similar comments if more of his fans find this. I agree with several other authors who treat writing their books as their JOB! They often put in 40 hours a week or so many pages / words a day and get it done.

[@kineticstar]

We will need to put George into a bottle like they did with other celebrities in Futurama. Our grandchildren's grandchildren will be waiting for GRR Martin to finish the Game of Thrones series.

[@davidripley2916]

Nixon's head won't allow it. Unamerican, dammit !

[@smallcd]

George RR Star Citizen

[@brando3342]

Lol underrated comment 😂

[@heartysquid]

Ooof got me in the sides😂

[@spartanhawk7637]

George Star Star Martin

[@ATG913]

lol

[@boggeddown778]

The SC devs are actually working and puttingg out results, (slowly). We haven't seen much at all from George. I believe SC will be done one day. Game of Thrones? No.

[@nukepineisland]

Martin is the poster boy for where postmodern writing falls short. You can put a million cool pieces into motion and make interesting and exciting moments happen regardless of the players...but if there is no central thread to tie it together it's almost impossible to have a satisfying ending, especially if the story has carried on for a bit. There's no point to anything in nihilism and that's why Martin was just fine with someone else taking the blame for ASOIF shit conclusion because the philosophy guiding the writing almost brings it about.

[@cartooningfanart]

It is fascinating that Tolkien = A man forced to fight and kill in WW1 and later witness WW2 had a more positive view of humanity. While it is pitiful that an old Vietnam hippie like George RR Martin who never lived through all that tragedy has a more condescending and nihilistic view of life, combined with arrogance and an 'I know better' opinion of himself.

[@Grizz1yKi11a]

Men who see the worst of humanity, also see the best in response to the tragedy. Whereas, men who have never had a real problem or seen true tragedy, suddenly find fault in everything normal around them, simply so they can relate.

[@kobblestonemc]

You captured modernism vs postmodernism perfectly

[@exaroceans]

Such a close description of George RR Martin.

[@will420high4]

Yes, beause life is soo good and fair, it's all fun and roses... not actual hell at all... just over 50 wars happening in the world including genocides and a global heat wave due to climate change that amplifies every natural disaster and make working outside unberable

[@raifencharles3680]

​@@will420high4 ok yes life is sucky and bad war veterans get forgotten and are alone after sacrificing their whole lives to a country that rejects them. But it's important to remember the good in humanity and how we can come together in times we must it's ok to think the world's flawed but to completely disregard all we've done and achieved is just downright disrespectful to everyone who changed the world for the better so we can live

[@Grasslander]

On the one hand it's his series and he can make it or not make it as he wishes. That's the legal side. The moral side is that he knows readers have invested hundreds of hours in the series. He WANTED them to do that. It's what made him money. And he knows these people did so in the belief that the story would come to an end. People have a need to see stories end. So the legal side is one thing, the moral side is this, he didn't uphold his end of the deal, an implicit deal made with people who gave him money because of that deal.

[@2012sonora]

He's also burned the ENTIRE spec fic writing community. Most readers won't even start a series now until it's finished.

[@dbsommers1]

The main issue is he's lying about it. Just admitting he can't finish the story because of writers block would be fine.

[@reactiondavant-garde3391]

@@dbsommers1 It would still be fine, but at least it would be a way to make his critisism less severe. It is like admitting bankcrapcy.

[@TheMidnightKarneval]

@@2012sonora he put it in the ground and Rothfuss piled all the dirt over the coffin

[@Philistine47]

I'm not sure even the legal side is that favorable. Did GRRM sign a contract with the publisher for the rest of the series? Have they already paid him an advance on the expected sales of the book(s)? Both of those would be standard practice for a well-known author writing series fiction, and would incur a legal obligation to finish writing the books that he's (probably) already been paid for.

[@incurableromantic4006]

It's a real tragedy what's happened with Song of Ice and Fire - both the book and the series had the potential to be classics that could have been enjoyed and admired for generations to come. And now the books will be forever unfinished, and the series ended on a soar note that ruined it's greatness.

[@mattnar3865]

The only ending to ASOIAF you're gonna get is in fan fiction

[@BigIndividual]

They’ll probably make a more satisfying ending than whatever George has planned.

[@Darkgun231]

And he already sued somebody for using a chatbot to do just that.

[@mattnar3865]

@@BigIndividual They probably already have, depending on your tastes.

[@c99kfm]

Check out "The North Remembers" by qqueenofhades, it's a quite satisfying ending, continuing on from Dance.

[@KhanMann66]

@@Darkgun231Did ai predict his shitty ending?😂

[@Kwisatz-Chaderach]

Come on George! We need more paragraphs about diarrhea!

[@davidfrancisco3502]

And more paragraphs where the strong men that makes you remember the jocks that bullied you getting humilliated and killed.

[@Kwisatz-Chaderach]

@@davidfrancisco3502 😆

[@nont18411]

And more sexual assaults. Don’t forget the sexual assaults.

[@davidfrancisco3502]

@@nont18411 And men getting sexualidad and humilliated while the women are goblinface bugs and unlikable lesbians.

[@Gillymonster18]

@@nont18411shit like this is exactly why I tuned out in season 3. It’s just shock value after a point.

[@luisenriquecervantesjuarez3527]

Friendly reminder: Vince Gilligan gave us 3 (at the very least) satisfying endings in Breaking Bad, El Camino & Better Call Saul. That being said, with that lack of self awareness i don't think George would be able to write something even decent to finish his story.

[@nont18411]

Since A Dance with Dragons was released in 2011 - Breaking Bad was still in season 4, then proceeded to end in 2013. - Better Call Saul started in 2015 and ended in 2022. - El Camino was released in 2019. - MCU was still in phase 1 in 2011, then Avengers came out in 2012 and then MCU at its prime finally concluded in 2019 with Avengers Endgame. - The US president was Obama in his first term, then Obama again in his second term, then Trump, then Biden and then the new election will take place in 2024. - COVID 19 happened in 2020, was a global phenomenon and now it’s practically irrelevant. And Martin still doesn’t release his final two books

[@nont18411]

Also, in the universe that is full of assholes like Breaking Bad, Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould still managed to give great conclusion to his characters. - Walter died satisfied with what he achieved in his life but at the cost of his own family. - Jesse got his freedom and left the life of misery, death and destruction behind. - Jimmy got in jail forever. Probably the bleakest ending of the three but he still succeeded in his redemption and he got to have nice moment with Kim. I don’t think Martin could end his story like this, just look at how he reversed Jaime’s redemption arc (and since there’s no proof that it’s not Martin’s ending, I will assume that this is canon that D&D followed his key plot points).

[@surreal9239]

Disagree. BCS's ending is not satisfying. That show ended poorly because it had to fit into Breaking Bad's mold, even though BCS's first four seasons are vastly superior as a whole. Breaking Bad's ending itself is solid, though its final season in general is ass.

[@500dollarjapanesetoaster8]

Vince Gilligan also did a lot of work on The X Files (1993-2002), the follow-up series Lone Gunmen, and co-wrote the screenplay for Hancock.

[@nottomclancy2439]

@@nont18411 What that bastard did to Jaime... Finally I liked the guy, it seemed like it was some kind of redemption arc worth following and then he "sUbVerTs ExPectAtiOns" cause...nobody really knows. Obligatory "sUbvErsIoN oF ExPecTatiOns"...

[@Zephyr503]

Adolph's whole reign was shorter than the time since the last book in the series, but 'muh fascismus'.

[@quantumvideoscz2052]

Tolkien: writes LOTR during WW2 while two different forms of fascism were trying to conquer the entirety of Europe AND their allies were trying to do the same to the Pacific, all while he had to keep going to work. Martin: has to deal with precisely zero wars (since none currently happening affect him in any way), doesn't have to work because he's got tons of money from his previous books and licenses. Fails to write anything in the same timespan it took Tolkien to write the greatest literary masterpiece of the 20th century.

[@alopexau]

I still think the final book was already outlined and the ending we got to the TV series was actually based on Martin's notes, leaving him with no idea what to do now to course correct.

[@saraanic9436]

So many saints prove that true heroes exist. And not just them, of course, but saints are so well documented that it is easy to take inspiration from them. Also, I'd like to think that we all personally know some true heroes, even if the world doesn't know them.

[@will420high4]

wtf lol saints?? living in a fairy tale world hum?

[@quantumvideoscz2052]

Many so-called saints ended up the same way heroes do in Martin's works or even worse.

[@saraanic9436]

@@quantumvideoscz2052 I'm not sure what you mean, but I'm talking about their moral integrity, not necessarily wordly success.

[@septimiusseverus343]

​@@will420high4Whatever you say, weed-for-brains.

[@ManCheat2]

@@will420high4 Saints were literally real people bud.

[@brownline1463]

Years ago, I worked with a physician who was supervising a group of surgical residents. He had something called "The Can of Lies" - a tin can holding slips of paper, each of which had a lying excuse on it, such as "The dog ate my homework." or "My grandmother died." or "I got stuck in traffic". When one of the residents didn't do an assignment, rather than listen to a lame excuse, the physician would hold out the Can of Lies, have the resident select one, then read it out loud. It was suitably embarrassing for the resident, and it got the group back to work quickly. If I knew GRRM, I'd be handing him the Can of Lies.

[@tjjordan4207]

I actually saw a puppy chew apart my brother’s homework.

[@RafitoOoO]

I'm gonna steal this idea for my team at work lol.

[@darthlaurel]

This is really excellent..

[@davidripley2916]

Can of Whup-ass , more like. . .FINISH THE DAMN BOOK OR I PULL THE RINGPULL BUDDY 😂

[@davidripley2916]

​@@tjjordan4207One time , I was visiting my dad's flat ( 9 floors up) and my homework blew off the balcony and vanished. The teacher actually said "that's not even original. . . "😒

[@awesomehpt8938]

I couldn’t care less anymore

[@javiazar]

It's so sad... I'm so disappointed. I finished reading A Dance With Dragons in early 2012, and I've been waiting for the next one for over 12 years now... ffs... I flat out refuse to consume anything else this man puts out until he delivers on the other two books he promised us. I gave him money for 5 expecting 7 to be out eventually... I feel cheated.

[@obsidian00]

I feel ya...I started this series back in 1997 and I have been through all the stages of grief as well...now, I'm just glad we got what we got but like you, I don't support financially in any ways...if I want something of his, I just sail for it!

[@EduFirenze]

I feel ya but I don't think artists have to finish things because fans want it. George is pushing his limits but at this point anything he releases will face major criticism unless it's absolute perfection. He's between a rock and a hard place

[@PlayKonto-w9s]

​@@EduFirenze Sure but then those same artists shouldn't be surprised if their reputation goes to sh*t and those fans abandon them. Can't force fans to tolerate your abysmal work ethics and refusal to take accountability either. Not that I have any loss here, I was watching and reading korean stuff during that time. By the time I even considered watching Game of Thrones, the 8th season was out and it's safe to say that I had 0 reasons to bother anymore lmao. Even with the books, I just took one look at the abysmal release schedules and decided to dodge that bullet. I don't even feel sorry for the fans, the red flags were there and they chose to ignore them. The whole thing was bizarre. A TV adaptation before the book series is even finished? Yeah, that's a massive red flag!

[@cracmar03]

@@PlayKonto-w9s it's not that uncommon for tv adaptation to get ahead of books. Look at one of most popular manga's Fullmetal Alchemist. The anime was done while Arakawa was in middle of writing manga. Eventually anime run into problem that it reached manga's current volume. They had to make up ending with Arakawa's blessing. Meanwhile Arakawa wrote to end Fullmetal Alchemist herself. So they made second anime, this time continuing as manga was. Tbh to watch anime for FMA you need to watch both versions, as first anime did superb job on earliest parts of story manga had.

[@garrylovesey6810]

Yes, I won't buy any more of his books. Same for Jim Butcher. I won't buy a new series of books until they are all out.

[@Indiscrimi]

Back when Game of Thrones was just becoming popular, I read a short story by George RR Martin. The characters were interesting, and the intersecting plot lines were intriguing. And then the story ended with an army showing up and killing everyone, and none if it mattered. That was the moment when I realized that George does not possess the skill of ENDING A STORY. I've been telling everyone who will listen for years, and I feel that I have been vindicated.

[@Gridironwarplans]

That ending sounds awesome

[@williamhermann6635]

​@@Gridironwarplans Sounds like the movie "The Mist" lol

[@tripledigit4835]

My guess is that there was a thematic reason for everyone being killed. I doubt GRRM just killed everyone for no reason to make ‘none of it matter’

[@palladiamorsdeus]

​@@GridironwarplansIt sounds nihilistic and stupid as hell.

[@dariuswilliams7509]

I think I get it now George is a mangaka a lot of bad endings in manga 😂😂

[@nope8535]

In one year I wrote 180k words. By hand. The fact I have narcolepsy and can only write for short periods before I fall literally asleep makes all his excuses hollow at best.

[@derkeheath5172]

Yeah, but did you write anything GOOD?

[@thedabblingwarlock]

@@derkeheath5172 If he put words to paper, he automatically wrote something better than GRRM, who has apparently written nothing at all.

[@237homer238]

lol weird flex. i have push version of multiple sklerosis. i had to learn read and write again. and still wrote more then him. if you count stupid comments on multiple platforms and txt msgers in. and i wrote a moomin chat ai what is pretty good.

[@237homer238]

@@derkeheath5172 a racial 4 chan post that had a lot of attention :D

[@500dollarjapanesetoaster8]

Just for laughs I had calc'd how many words per month GRRM had done for his last 5 books. It was between 9K and 11.4K per month. You got him beat in that regards, and yours were hand written as well (at 15K words/mo). Well done. I hope you're improving physically.

[@zacharyhefner2208]

The moral I got is the only winning move in the Game of Thrones is not to play, lol

[@ChristopherPearson-u1u]

Sanderson is a one-man writing machine. If Martin could get him to write outlines tying up loose ends, he might be able to finish.

[@defeqel6537]

Sanderson has enough projects already

[@jacquelineking5783]

Eh Sanderson is a bit to PG13 I think for Martin's work. I enjoy Sanderson but I don't think he is a good fit.

[@AstraLuna-o9i]

George will never allow it to happen.

[@GloriousRAT]

As a professional writer who has worked with "Gardener" types like George, I have a different reason for his failure to finish WOW. He can't. A "Gardener" has a big problem meeting up with a preset ending. "Bram is king", pushed for by HBO, is a colossal problem for his particular story writing style. If he were an "Architect" type, like me, ASOIAF would be done already. In my decades of working with writers of both primary types I have NEVER known a single "Gardener" who can work a narrative to a targeted ending. They do not write like that.

[@UnbeltedSundew]

He definitely can, but a writer has to eventually plan their way to it at some point and he doesn't want to. Everyone has parts of their jobs that are necessary even if they don't like that particular part, and he has allowed his ego to convince him that he *doesn't* need to do so because he's just better than that.

[@Tim_the_Enchanter]

George simply wrote himself into too many corners, and my guess is that what we saw on HBO was roughly his plan ... and he has no interest in opening himself up to the kind of criticism that ignited (as opposed to the criticism he's facing now).

[@silentecho92able]

He should have just said he gave HBO a rough draft instead and write the ending fans want. For starters don't let Arya ruin Jon's story by killing his Arch nemesis, as she had no major involvement with the White walkers until the last season. George states that he does not want to do what people expect and want to subvert peoples expectation. Problem is that this is not one of those moments, were you can not give people what they want. An it didn't help the fact the show strayed away from the source material to much after season 4 when they dropped the ball on the whole Dorne plotline and not make the Aegon Targaryen plotlines or Victarion.

[@drbalbon7332]

A Song of Ice and Fire doesn't have the faith and morality that drove Lord of the Rings to its conclusion.

[@chheinrich8486]

Yeah the only thing that would make sense is for the white walkers to win😂

[@jsa-z1722]

Yes the faith and morality!

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

You people glorify Tolkien way too much, lol faith and morality, why be so dramatic about it?

[@danieleventhal3848]

I'd be very happy if the bad guys win. Even if Dany killed Jon and then reigned supreme I'd be more happy with that. The story tells you from the beginning that this is not a story where the good guys win.

[@harrygarris6921]

@@RRRRRRRRR33 It's not that Tolkien was so great as a person it's that he believed in a transcendent reality and this inspired him to achieve what he achieved. GRRM doesn't believe in anything greater than worldly politics.

[@wushiba]

RIP Kentaro Miura.

[@JnEricsonx]

I signed a memorial for him back in 2021 at a con. I only saw a little bit of Berserk and read only a bit but what I read I liked.

[@TJK10]

10:55 I recall back in college, during a literature and writing course, that a rule of thumb for “Author Types” is the Watchmaker vs Gardener. The Watchmaker meticulously plans where the book will go. He drops hints and foreshadowing at just the right time, making sure to get ahead of any potential plot holes. As such these plots are very functional and timely (pardon the pun,) but can be rather formulaic and predictable. The Gardener, alternatively, might plan a little at the start, setting characters and plot points here and there, while occasionally coming in to prune plots and characters that are going wild, but he will generally just sit back and let his garden grow, so that whatever happens will happen. This can lead to interesting and unexpected plots that haven’t really happened much before, but the risk of things becoming “overgrown” is always there, especially if one “plant” is sucking all the nutrients out of the soil. It’s almost like the plot lines are competing with each other for relevance, at that point. I’d argue George is a Gardener, and he’s let his garden get away from him.

[@MrLolguy93]

George reminds me of Alan Moore. Just look at Moore's reaction when someone tell him that Rorschach is their favorite hero

[@helenablavatsky9136]

Well, I guess that's because the character is a moral absolutist.

[@jazzman2559]

Moore made Rorschach as a right wing nutjob to make fun of people he doesn't like but instead of people agreeing with him most people think of him as the only good guy in that whole story. Of course he'd be pissed off.

[@TechnaFox]

Leftists depict the Right as negatively as they can and wonder why normal people like it...

[@us89na]

@@jazzman2559 the Archie Bunker effect

[@Ranben.]

I think that in the end there will be many plot mechanics and symbolism in ASOIAF that will try to direct readers away from the 'Jock', combat-keen characters (see how the Brackens always get humiliated and cast unflatteringly) and towards the nerds (samwell tarly, reader Harlaw) the fatties (wyman Manderley, samwell again) and over idealised feminist characters (Ellaria+Sand snakes, Asha, Brienne, Missandei, Val, Alys Karstark, the archer on the Cinnamon Wind etc) Also he will use the language and colours to nudge people to have certain conclusions. For example, he uses "ser" rather than "sir" because he wants to feminize the title of a Knight, making it read similar to the word "her". That's the same reason for all the Westeros rulers (men and women) having the title "Your Grace" when historically in the real world that was something most often associated only with female rulers. There are hints as well that all the Valyrian steel swords have women's souls in them, which would then mean every swordfight would be involving women in a crucial role. So basically, George is a fanatic.

[@eythemischief4148]

Despite all the earned backlash, I do want those books though. I want the conclusion so bad.

[@defeqel6537]

Ascendance of a Bookworm just finished (the English translation), that's 24 books of light reading to keep your mind off ASOIAF

[@r.l.royalljr.3905]

After Robert Jordan died before finishing his Wheel of Time series, I swore I'd never buy into another fiction series until I knew it was substantially finished. So it looks like I'll never read Game of Thrones.

[@METALGEARMATRIX]

I'm just gonna say this: George should have left ASOIF as a trilogy. The first few books are great but books 4 and 5 were a goddamn SLOG to read. For fucks sake the book called "A dance of Dragons" has the titular dragons locked in a fucking dungeon the entire book. I don't think he'll finish it because I don't think he can

[@TalkingThrones]

This!

[@nont18411]

In a book called “A Dance with Dragons”, the things that were most talked about are - Jon dead - JonCon has a greyscale - Bran eats his own friend - Cersei walk of shame - Tyrion meandering - A very graphic sexual assault scene by Ramsay - Stannis marching and making friends Barely has anything to do with dragons. The only thing that came close was Quentyn getting barbecued extra crispy. But maybe that’s on purpose. It’s a classic GRRM “subverting our expectations”.

[@METALGEARMATRIX]

@nont18411 Daenerys is a complete moron throughout the entire book too. Decidinv to rule over a random slaver city than her birthright

[@CalebMay-bf1ci]

He can’t

[@cappadocius9379]

One of my friends is convinced he has them all written. He is just waiting until he dies so he doesn't have to deal with the drama.

[@chaoticgoodcreations947]

>Be me >Feel like procrastinating >Remember George >Stop procrastinating Thank you George, I don't even own a multi-million-dollar franchise and your attitude towards effort has already inspired me to not turn out like you.

[@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast]

So Martin can critique House of the Dragon, but stayed extremely silent for the final season of GOT. Also, i dont believe Martin can wrap up this massive story in just two books. There needs to an 8th book at least. Theres too much left

[@LadyBeyondTheWall]

Eh, he already said in that 60 minutes interview when S8 aired that all the main, most secondary and some tertiary characters are going to have the same ending in the books - the difference is going to be in how they get there. If people didn't like where the character ends (as in, their complaint isn't entirely the journey) then they won't like it in the books either. 🤷🏻‍♀ Yeah it was rushed, but it got to where George told them it would go back when they all spent a week together going over S5 on and how it ends. I think he also stays quiet because D&D were promised by GRRM when they decided to do the show that TWoW would be done by S5 and the last book done before the end of the show. So all they had was his notes. What can he really say about that.

[@nont18411]

@@LadyBeyondTheWall Arya killed the Night King, or someone who unleashed the apocalypse like him. Jon’s throne got usurped by Bran and his king in the north throne was usurped by Sansa. Jon got exiled after every heroic deeds he did for everyone. Daenerys went super mad and committed genocide. Cersei choosing not to help other people was proven to be a correct decision. Because selfishness triumphed over putting aside petty differences to fight the existential threat. The valonqar prophecy never happened. Jaime’s redemption arc got reversed and went back to become an asshole again. Sansa, who willingly let Ramsay kill her own younger brother to win the war and stealing the throne from her own half-brother, got to win in the end. The winner is an emotionless omniscient Bran who got his mind hijacked by Bloodraven (who’s also a slave of a weirwood net) conducting an Orwellian surveillance state across Westeros. Rushing or not, there’s no way this can be a good, let alone a meaningful ending, ever. It’s too cynical and nihilistic that it makes reading experience meaningless.

[@adamantiiispencespence4012]

There's already been talkk of winds being released in two volumes. As much as everyone makes it sounds like Martin is sitting on his hands the he claim to have over 900 pages of Winds written.

[@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast]

@@adamantiiispencespence4012 yes, thank you. There was also a rumor that he did submit a draft but the word was that it was a jumbled mess. Don't know how true that is. But yes, he has claimed the amount of pages he's written, it's just him trying to get it right. He's a perfectionist. To tie it into the books, I think the final season as a whole is the prime example of something (outside of problematic writing, etc) falling under the weight of it's own complexities and ideas. This is probably why Martin is having issues with the final two books, because he's going to have squeeze everything left into those, but also make it clear what the story is truly about and saying.

[@LadyBeyondTheWall]

@@nont18411 Jon's whole story makes sense to me. Him not being on ANY throne is a happy ending for him. Maybe not for the audience or the readers, but for him as a person and a character, it's good. I mean, there are people who are angry he didn't end up on the throne with his aunt and their inbred babies. Seriously. The amount of people who were loving the show and had no complaints all of a sudden thought S7 and 8 were terrible when they realized Jon wasn't going to marry his aunt was enormous. Watching people turn on the show in real time because of that was hilarious. Dany going mad and committing genocide makes 100% sense and has been foreshadowed through the whole show and in the books. I was reading them right before S1 came out and the amount of theories about Dany going mad and doing exactly what she did were everywhere. And in the show, there were definitely people, including me, who saw it coming from S2. So that makes sense - only change will be what sets her off and how it happens. The people who claim they never foreshadowed it and it came out of nowhere blow my mind. As for how George can make all of this "good" - no idea. I see how he could make it meaningful, at least for most of the characters. I think, like the show, the end is bittersweet. That's what GRRM said it would be. Some kind of happy endings, some sad ones, life goes on, etc. 🤷🏻‍♀ No idea how he's going to pull it off. But, imo, D&D just did what the hell they could when they realized GRRM is a liar and wouldn't have TWOW out before S5, and then again when they realized he wouldn't have it out before the show ends. They got the very ending of all the characters on the show from George and went for it based on where they were, and none of the actors would have held for 10-15 seasons, so. 🤷🏻‍♀

[@dudeboydudeboy-zj8kd]

Micheal Moorcock is 9 years older then Martin and is still writing even to this day. Heck even the Maurice Duron's Accursed Kings where finished, and Tad Williams is still writing the Memory Sorrow and Thorn books even after the original trilogy was done. And what do these 3 writers have in common? Their works influenced asoiaf yet they finished their works.

[@PeoplePleaser578]

I have no idea who these are but I’m going to have a look at them. Thanks

[@dudeboydudeboy-zj8kd]

@@PeoplePleaser578 their works where an influenced asoiaf. Moorcock's Elric Saga featured the original Targaryen, Duron's the Accursed Kings feature the political dynamics when Cersei mentioned "when you play the game of thrones", William's Memory Sorrow and Thorn showed the influences for Jon, white walkers, Iron throne, Stannis and Renly, and more.

[@ronsmith8424]

Critical Drinker made an excellent point about the nihilism driving the narrative of Game of Thrones that was internationally popular for some many years. Influencing millions of children and young people who will cause lots of problems in the future as they try to copy it.

[@Hero_Of_Old]

Nothing happens by accident.

[@anotherhappylanding4746]

It's not nihilistic to portray things accurately, the real world is full of snakes who come out on top over good people, If anything lord of the rings is the unrealistic story in terms of themes

[@BryceShamwow]

@@anotherhappylanding4746 Why not just delete yourself if that's what you think?

[@anotherhappylanding4746]

@BryceShamwow I didn't say lord of the rings themes are bad or wrong did I... it's one of the greatest stories ever devised, but in terms of a world closer to ours in terms of brutality and bad things happening, game of thrones bears closer resemblance

[@BryceShamwow]

@@anotherhappylanding4746 Nihilism just breeds more nihilism, though, and more apathy in the world. Nobody wants to read that shit, or almost nobody: people are reading it to get to the satisfying ending which will never exist. But if he did end it like that, everyone would hate it and for good reason. Beyond just the audience expectations, though, there's the fact that heroes can inspire people, and inspire other heroes. If we ever want the real world to get better, we are going to need that, not apathy. Heroic fantasy can do good for the world.

[@secretfirebooks7894]

George's friend Michael Moorcock has been writing fantasy almost as long and has finished MULTIPLE series. His stories are also grim and depressing, but - unlike George - he actually remembers to give his characters some honorable, heroic qualities. His books also aren't thousands of pages long, so that's a big plus.

[@markmunroe-hz8rf]

I never read Elric, but I've read the Titan Comics version. Yes, Elric is immoral, but he has noble qualities. His creator took lessons from Robert E Howard's Conan.

[@shanecoyle8053]

Thanks for telling on yourself and letting us know that you haven’t read the books or even watched the show, unless you’re an idiot who pays no attention. Brienne, Rob Stark, Ned Stark, Jaime, Tyrion, Jon Snow, and so many others don’t have noble and heroic qualities?

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

Many characters in ASOIAF have honorable and heroic qualities.

[@secretfirebooks7894]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 Yeah. And then they die.

[@RedhotJBoy87]

They never like to tell you what books they burned.

[@rupertsmith5815]

What?

[@donspafford414]

He thinks he’s the equivalent to Stephen King, but Stephen actually respected the art and medium and finished his books that the got adapted into financial successes more times over than he ever will.

[@josephfisher426]

I don't know about that, at least George knows when he's being a pervert, and it isn't ALL the time...

[@FriendlyDarkwraith]

At least Stephen King had cocaine to see him through to the end.

[@PrebleStreetRecords]

We just need to feed GRRM a literal dump truck of cocaine and see what happens.

[@terrymoose7273]

@@FriendlyDarkwraith Stephen King did so much cocaine that there are entire books he does not even remember writing.

[@metalslinger]

The difference between Martin and King is that King has a work ethic. He writes around 2000 words everyday. For all my problems with King as of late, I have to give him credit for that.

[@mohitrawat5225]

Some funny comments I have found on other videos - 1. Anya Taylor Joy looks more elf than every elf in The Rings of Power. 2. The actress who played Galadriel once described her character as older than moon. Someone commented "older than moon, but still act like spoiled teenager". 3. Peter Jackson hired actual elves to play elves. Amazon hired orcs to play elves and writers of the show. 4. Amazon is orcwashing the elves.

[@chadlynch1551]

Martin wrote his story as a direct counter and even rebuke of Tolkien. His world view is directly opposed to Tolkien's Christianity. He finds themes like honor, loyalty, hope, and righteousness to be stupid and revolting. He wanted to write a story that was "real". In other words brutal and materialistic. A story about awful selfish people doing awful nasty things to each other in pursuit of selfish things like power, money, sex, and revenge. As one of his characters said, there is only power, and the climb up the ladder of power to seize more. The problem is that kind of story can not have a satisfying ending. No matter how skillfully he writes, no matter how interesting your characters, no matter how clever your story hooks, nasty people doing awful things for selfish reasons in a world where there is no objective morality or God or karma can only end in a nasty, awful, selfish, stupid, unsatisfying way. That's exactly what happened to the show. Martin understands, at least on some level, that's exactly what would happen if he finished his story. He can either remain true to his vision and beliefs, in which case the books end more or less like the show, or he can try to fake a good ending he doesn't believe in, meaning his heart wont be in it. That means he would have no motivation to do it, and it would feel clunky and dishonest. He wrote himself into a corner. There's also the fact that he's fat and old. Age brings diminished created energy energy, as does poor physical health. And he also has more money than he can spend in his remaining time. He doesn't want to finish it, doesn't know how to finish it, and doesn't have to finish it. And always remember, R. R. stands for "rape-rape".

[@HWC91]

Ayra killing the Night King and Bran sitting on the throne is the biggest f u to everyone who invested their time watching the series.

[@kesamek8537]

A massively popular influential story about the futility of war and the power of nature. Suddenly goes off the rails and disappears into oblivion before a genuine conclusion can be published. Well played CIA.

[@Gillymonster18]

Martin’s legacy won’t be “oh he never had the chance to finish” because there is a crap ending to GoT, and *literal years* of him complaining and finding reasons to not finish the series. “Yeah he basically quit writing the stories and elected to do other projects until he died.”

[@timmyb7734]

All I can say to what they have been talking about is... THE SPICE MUST FLOW. Dune existed, grew and even created a video game genre before it had its posthumous conclusions, for better or worse.

[@jorgenolsson5967]

This reminds me of the Rage of Thrones music video.. The singer yelling "Waited six f*n years for a dance with dragons, and now you jump on the f*n band wagon?!" 12 years later....

[@michaeltorrisi7289]

Other people have pointed it out, but what sets Martin's work apart from other fantasy is that the good guys don't win. You want a modern fantasy series where good triumphs? Take your pick from a dozen excellent series. Low magic? Queen's Thief. High magic? Black Prism. Gritty depressing world? Mistborn. There are a ton of properties out there and SoIF wouldn't be noteworthy if it wasn't a depressing look at the reality of nobility and integrity getting nowhere.

[@snakething87]

“Rocks fall, everyone dies.” - GoT canonical ending

[@fishjones4618]

@@snakething87 “Sauron uses Westeros as a beta test for the One Ring”. The end.

[@His-Most-Catholic-Majesty]

He gave the show his intended ending and people didn't like it. Now he has a hundred offers of fun stuff to do instead of rewriting his book. I don't think that we'll get the last book.

[@chronicbrightside8757]

Honestly, with how bad Game Of Thrones fumbled the ending, all George RR Martin has to do to make everyone happy is not totally suck. Learn what they didn't like about the GoT ending and do something different. Just don't do the Rise Of Skywalker thing, where you go the route of something so safe and toothless it might as well not have been made at all.

[@JonahsWail]

I’m a firm believer in just letting the dude enjoy his success for the remaining years he has. That kind of success as a fantasy writer is incredibly rare, he needs to live it up so the rest of us can live vicariously through his success. Not a fan of his commentary on other active projects and shows, but I kinda understand it considering the kind of hate getting thrown his way nonstop.

[@micahthomas705]

New Mexico here, he spends a lot of time involved with the Art shows of Meow Wolf. Also he is frequently seen involving as many enchiladas as possible in this process. Locals see his hard work.

[@bruhicusmomentus3060]

LMAO

[@MSinistrari]

I still remember when Bubonicon had him as the guest of honor when the show was mad popular and they barely advertised at all. I always wondered if that was from the con organizers not able to handle popularity/crowds or Martin just preferring to keep in a nerdly bubble.

[@seasonedbeefs]

Evening guys. You bring me the pub banter when I have no public house to visit anymore. Make public houses great again

[@Tuberiascaesar]

I hate to say it, but CD is right about the doom and gloom. The vibe I got from not only Ice/Fire but so many other books and games etc is the same. Life sucks, humanity sucks, and the only real thing to do to is to just struggle to live as long and well as you can but then for no other reason than just because. Then just switch when the time comes and accept oblivion and nothingness smiling and proud. It makes for an epic struggle, but if that's the ending, than unfinished and fanfic might be best after all.

[@dbensdrawinvids8390]

I used to read a LOT of webcomics. A lot of long-running webcomics. A common thread I noticed was that any time the story started to flounder and the author obviously started to struggle, they would introduce new characters. And Georgie LOVES introducing new characters.

[@kieranelliott5607]

Bored of his own creation is the obvious answer.

[@Sphoonx]

Stories have an ending. So the ultimate subversion would be not to have them end at all. Brilliant, in a way.

[@BigIndividual]

I have to say as well, it’s a real insult to get mad at people who don’t have the luxury of living in a mansion with major creative projects lining up to have you involved. Did you forget that it was those same everyday people that put you on the map for deciding to read the series you started 30 YEARS AGO? You aren’t entitled to people’s money or their patience! People want to see results from their investment, and using kindergarten-tier excuses will only serve to piss them off more.

[@JapLomm]

Great to have Jonny on the panel. he is a funny guy and his videos are amazing

[@DanReyesB]

Instead of complaining about everything around you, SIT DOWN AND FINISH THE DAMN BOOK, GEORGE!!

[@williamjameshoffer4405]

Two points: GRRM has repeatedly stated there will be no one to finish the books should he not finish. He refuses to allow it. Second, GRRM knows how all the characters will end up. There will be heroes and villains, but with no fairy tale, in his words "Disney" endings. However, he also describes his style of writing as a gardener. The story develops as he writes it with no "architect" grand plans.

[@eviljoshy3402]

My sister in law read his books way before he got a tv show. Even back then he STILL never met his deadlines.

[@someguy_namingly]

"Brian Sanderson" Good to see Reaper maintaining the exact level of quality I've come to expect, lol

[@Thecontentmustflow]

At least Martin is technically working. I'm not giving Pat another cent till Doors of Stone comes out.

[@textbot3000]

I actually spoke with him, like other famous people, on a video game. He was interested in why i said, "Winter is coming." I never read his books. I live in Canada. I saw the Geese flying South, last week.. Winter is coming. Scotland is just a few degrees more North than the great lakes.. you know what i mean. I love how threatening "winter is coming" sounds. I miss the years that i was a server admin on Wolf:ET "Those were the days."

[@obsidian00]

LMAO...I will never get tired of new readers of the "A Song of Ice and Fire" series lamenting over GRRM's lack of SPEED when it comes to finishing that series...I started down this road back in 1997...you don't KNOW pain...just be happy we got what we got!

[@Grizz1yKi11a]

Congrats, you're old. People can still be annoyed and criticize the fat lazy socialist that is holding everyone in suspense to milk as much money as possible.

[@livewire961]

fr, when I got to A Dance with Dragons and his preface said "damn this one took years to write" I thought to myself "well at least I'm not going to have to suffer through that".......... .......and here I am over a decade later.....waitng......

[@dankato6380]

Yep Just happy to be along for the ride😂😂😂

[@manicpixiefangirl4189]

Tolkien was writing LOTR during WWII while being a professor, doing civilian work to help the war effort, and having a least one son actually fighting oversees. But sure George, you go and “fight fascism”. 🙄

[@TophDaGreat]

It seems to me the ending we got on HBO was a rough outline of what he wanted to do. He saw the backlash to it and realized he wrote himself into a corner. Now he is stalling with all these side projects instead of finishing the books because he knows he'd get a similiar level of backlash. He seems to resent his own work. Its kinda sad really.

[@angbandsbane]

Someday they'll find a "National Treasure"-esque hidden vault and it'll contain the completed Winds of Winter along with Half Life 3 and Coyote vs. ACME.

[@trajanthegreat2928]

GRRM also doesn't know how to end it. Remember that quote of his "what would Aragorn's tax policy be"? The reason Tolkien doesn't go into that is because the main story was over, but for George that's the stuff he's interested in. So I can imagine the books going just like S8, with the "climax" of the Others, only for the books to continue and go back to the petty stuff. Is that going to be satisfying to most people? I don't know. At that point, where do you end the story? With Dany or Jon or Bran being ruler? But that'll only generate more plot threads for George to explore. That's the exact problem people have pointed out with HOTD, Fire & Blood doesn't have a nice ending point so book fans have been speculating where the show will end. ASOIAF will never be finished because George doesn't have an ending.

[@eternalhalloween1]

I have several reasons for hating George R.R. Martin. I'm glad I never wasted my time with his books. I am very happy on the works of J.R.R. Tolkien ✝, the works of C.S. Lewis ✝,Shakespeare ✝, the 1966 Catholic Edition of the REVISED STANDARD version of the BIBLE ✝, STAR TREK (TOS), ST (TAS), and ST NEXT GENERATION ✝.

[@Neonsilver13]

I'm convinced that Martin is not going to finish the books because he is incapable of doing it. I'm also convinced that is the reason why he extended from initially a planned trilogy to now 7 planned books, he had no idea how to get to the end, so instead he wrote basically a bunch of sidestories and barely moved the plot forward. In regards to someone else finishing his works, I think he said in an interview that he doesn't want anyone to finish it for him after he dies.

[@stevegt2682]

I find it amusing that I got an Agatha All Along ad before watching this video. Truly great ad targeting.😆

[@NovRen19]

"Let the winter die."

[@DMR_MAK]

You know its gonna be a good video when they open with, a seemingly, Scouse accent. The combination of Martin’s “gardener” writing “philosophy” and the rather postmodern construction(haha) of the world of I&F lends me to believe that he cannot finish the story without a glaring twist(from low to high fantasy).

[@Sarcastic_Sophist]

I feel the pain of game of thrones fans as someone who wants to see the end of the kingkiller chronicles.

[@fatalblue]

I dilberetly did not bother starting the second book after finding out how long ppl have been waiting for book 3. I would rather not get more invested into something that might never finish.

[@Sarcastic_Sophist]

@@fatalblue honestly the delay alone is bad. But the way the author has behaved since has burned pretty much all good will.

[@noanswer1864]

I think he gave them the real story beats he had planned, including Danny going insane, then noticed the "Everyone hated that" popup in the upper left side of his vision. He won't finish it. He's made enough from interviews and adaptations to comfortably forget about the whole thing, and just let the old outlines he now knows need re-working gather dust until he starts gathering dust, himself.

[@Gunleaver]

I think the books are setting up exactly what Drinker is talking about. The worm has already turned. I know Mauler & Drinker love to fap Tywin Lannister, whose depiction as the most competent political leader or governing authority is a major contributor to the view of the story as bleak, cynical and amoral, but in the books, Martin is NOT praising him or setting him out as an example. We keep seeing shit associated with Tywin. When he rides his horse into the throne room after the Battle of the Blackwater, at the end of book/season 2, and the horse takes a shit, as I recall, the show plays it out as simply their grim realism in contrast to the pageantry, but in the books, there is a lot of language emphasizing how Tywin has taken this moment to glorify himself as the savior of the realm and the power behind the throne, rather than bolster his grandson's reign by promoting Joffrey has the hero king. And the horse drops a giant turd at the foot of the Iron Throne and when Joffrey descends to embrace Tywin, he has to step gingerly around the turd. The message is that embrace Tywin, you have to wade through the shit he drops all over your house. The horse turd didn't need to be there, either. All Tywin had to do was walk in to the throne room like anyone else, but that's not good enough. He has to ride in in his armor, to make it clear to everyone that he does not approach the throne as a supplicant, or a subject, but as a conqueror and the real power. He would rather shit on his family than humble himself. When Tyrion kills Tywin, he waits until his father's bowels empty upon his death to be sure, and the last words of the chapter are "Tywin Lannister in the end, did not shit gold." Martin is symbolically denying that Tywin has the Midas Touch, he is saying that Tywin's shit DOES stink. Later, during Tywin's lying in state in the sept, his body goes through an unusual decaying process so it stinks a lot worse that normal, and people are visibly reacting to it, and the septons are desperately trying to hide the stench with lots of flowers and incense, to no avail. And when Cersei brings Tommen up to pay his respects, it's so foul that he wretches and has to turn and run, causing the crown to fall off his head. In other words, Tywin stinks so badly that he causes his grandson to lose his crown! And the rest of A Feast For Crows is really a deconstruction of Tywin's work and legacy. The title is the end result of what Tywin has accomplished with all his machinations and schemes - a bunch of corpses. Both Jaime and Brienne travel through the theater of the war Tywin fought against the Starks and are having to confront and deal with all the destruction of lives, of property and of a functioning community. Tywin, in his desperation to beat people with the will and the skills to resist him, has restored to burning everything down to be king of the ashes. Cersei is dealing with a lot of political problems and while the foremost issue is her own incompetence and inability to see how bad her decisions are, the problems she is dealing with are all largely the result of Tywin's atrocities and methods. The Sparrow movement is not a spontaneous religious uprising, it is in reaction to the indiscriminate slaughter he carried out against the civilians and clergy who happened to live under the lords who opposed the Lannisters. The clergy used to have their own troops to protect them, which they gave up for a promise of protection from the throne, but now the throne is being held by the very family that has been abusing them. So they flock to the city, for both succor and for the comfort of the faith, and the displaced & pissed off preachers find an attentive ear in the people who Kings Landing, who still resent Tywin for Sacking the city at the end of Robert's Rebellion, and the harsh measures taken for security and during the shortages of the war when Tyrion was in charge and Joffrey would mock the commoners who came to petition for food. Meanwhile, Lannister operatives and allies are running into hostility everywhere. Brienne is taken captive and almost hanged by the Brotherhood, because she carries a sword Jaime gave her, which is all decorated with Lannister colors and sigils, and has Tyrion's squire in her employ. The Blackfish refuses to surrender Riverrun, no matter how generous the terms Jaime offers and no matter sincere his offers of peace and pardon, because the Red Wedding and Jaime's history of oathbreaking means Ser Brynden cannot and willnot trust any Lannister promises or truces. We see troops from the Lannisters and their allied Houses being massacred after they surrender, a Frey meets the Brotherhood under truce to ransom a captive and they flat out rob him and break the truce to hang him and the man he came to ransom, even falsely swearing to let him go if he tells them some information they want, and then killing him anyway after he talks. In the North, a group of Freys come to negotiate with one of the most powerful vassal lords of the Starks, who feigns friendship and then murders them as soon as they step foot outside his walls, and they are no longer protected by guest right. Then he cooks their bodies into a pie and serves it as Ramsey's wedding feast, in a deliberate evocation of a fable in Westeros of a man who murdered guests and baked them in a pie to get revenge on their father. The gods accepted his pursuit of revenge, but cursed him for seeking it by breaking guest right. Later on, this same lord provokes the Freys into attacking him while they are both guests of the Boltons, to bring the curse down on the Boltons for letting a guest be harmed and the Freys for harming a fellow guest. Martin is adamant that evil tactics and atrocities, even if they seem to succeed, have consequences that break the social fabric and lead to more atrocities, because of the hostility they engender and the loss of respect for customs that protect the innocent and allow for peacemaking. In Martin's story, doing the right thing will not necessarily save you or get you a reward, but it is still shown as the right thing to do, because it makes the world a better place. While Ned seems to fail and Tywin succeed, the true measure of the men is in their legacies and the kind of world they leave behind. Tywin leaves a wasteland, with even the allies of his family ready to turn on the Lannisters the moment they see a profit in it, because his treachery and dishonorable behavior means he can only get allies who don't care about honor or loyalty. Anyone who respects honor and loyalty is disgusted by Tywin & his adulterous daughter and oathbreaking son. So he has allies in the Boltons who tell Jaime "LOL we're not afraid of Tywin's wrath, we live too far away for him to reach us," the Freys who are so vicious and petty and greedy they can't get anything done because of all their internal squabbles, and the Tyrells who, even before he died, poisoned Tywin's grandson, so he could be replaced with a younger brother who would be more amenable to their influence and manipulation. Meanwhile, Ned's kids are going to be the basis of the alliance that saves the world from the Others, and in the lands where he ruled, his followers are marching through blizzards to save his daughter, they are pledging to aid Jon Snow, because they can come to him for help, knowing that Ned Stark's son will do right by them. The same lord carrying out such vicious revenge against the Freys, hides Davos from Lannister agents and sends him to go rescue Rickon, saying that if he can return their rightful Stark lord, then he will follow Stannis. Littlefinger's long-term plan is poison "Robin" Arryn and marry Sansa to the distant cousin who is next in line to inherit the Vale, and then play on the affection the Vale has for Ned Stark, to lead the knights of the Vale north to retake Winterfell. When Stannis arrives in the North, he quickly realizes that the best way to get them on his side is to avenge the Starks and restore a Stark to power in Winterfell. The end result of Martin's story is that cynicism and political backstabbing might make short term gains, but Ned's way is BETTER. It's harder, and requires you to give more, and won't necessarily save you, but it will make a better world for other people and that's worth doing. Ned raised better children and his methods found them better friends. Also, the way the story is going, Aegon is going to depose Cersei, Dany is going to return to find him on the throne and there will a second dance of dragons, with dragon fire setting off all the bombs the Mad King planted under the city, which motivated Jaime to kill him. Kings Landing will burn, the Iron Throne will melt and Dany will look on in horror and realize that THIS is what the Targaryens bring to Westeros, and she has inadvertently completed her father's plans. She will resolve to be better than that and when she hears about the Others and the Wall coming down, she will go North to save the world and in her relationship with Jon Snow, find a better meaning of family.

[@frocat5163]

Martin has said for years that if he dies before _A Song of Ice and Fire_ is finished, he doesn't want anyone to finish it, and it sounds like he's done something to make that desire legally binding. If GRRM doesn't finish the series (and I don't think there's any chance he will), no one will.

[@MrHydenSeek]

He let it sit too long and I think it's has a lot with his legacy.

[@JagWoof]

It's my belief that GRRM's first love in writing is being a screenwriter. It's why he fills his his time with (even though he's 75 y/o and obese) these multiple TV projects rather than prioritizing finishing his magnum opus.

[@r3771-n2r]

He wrote a shaggy dog story with way to many strands. He can't possibly tie up all the loose strings.

[@AJDraws]

Reaper and Paddy Pimblett's accents sound so chill. I first heard the accent in Peaky Blinders when the fight promoter says: 'Fookin 'it 'im (f'ing hit him) in the calmest and most polite voice I've ever heard.