David Seymour: Why Treaty of Waitangi principles should be redefined | Q+A 2024

[@txeemo6946]

man im just happy comments are allowed :D its so good to see everyones opinions on the matter. Much appreciated for not locking the comment section

[@Hup-x1y]

True full n final

[@RJH755]

QnA usually has their comments on just not 1News for some reason

[@222-i6o]

thy have alwyas been open on nzqna

[@MrRasZee]

@@RJH755 yes 1 news is leftist fake news

[@anthonymorgan6255]

A little bit of Glasnost from the ministry of truth .

[@chrisrutherfurd9338]

If the media and certain politicians focused as much on improving housing, infrastructure, education and health as much as they do on the treaty, NZ would be a well oiled, first world nation.

[@StGammon77]

We were in the top 5 thriving Nations once, until the Treaty interference and fraud, everyone knows it. Maori property is their tangata whenua, everywhere else they are not, every property owner is the person of that area of land simple. Principles weren't attached to the Treaty but been indoctrinated into silly racist minds and not consented by the people so here we are learning the English writ thanks colonization!

[@BainesAdam]

The Media reports on the government it doesn't make policy. you need to ask the government why it isn't concentrating on the issues that so rightly concern you. The Coalition controls house business, This is the business they choose to bring up

[@chriswhata]

@@StGammon77 what bs is thriving nations?

[@chriswhata]

get back to your cauldron and broom

[@turi03175]

Kapai Chris thats the one focus on the basics 🎉🎉instead worrying dreamers, us Moari's ain't hell bent but if anyone going muck with Moari's sovereignty there'll be a fight seemore should of left it well alone shouldn't of happen now that it has I feel for the kids brown/white/black don't matter may God protect them as we endure through tis episode of history ameni

[@sherylwhite2201]

Jack you're talking about reinterpreting of the principles as if the principles were the treaty,but they're not! The principles were first created 40+ years ago by the Courts. Pleas don't confuse the Treaty and the principles in your interviews, you just continue the confusion

[@kiwiyogi2846]

Good point.

[@frankcoggan3880]

Jack is not that smart.

[@AholeAtheist]

The "treaty" is irrelevant. We honour te Tiriti, not the treaty.

[@peterhedgecock159]

@@AholeAtheist that's because your a dickhead . Bludge on bro

[@murraythompson4386]

True story, the treaty is all we should be focusing on not some interperated principals . All NZers should be voting on any changes to the treaty and not just iwi, Geoff palmer and some courts and the tribunal. If we dont get a vote on changing our founding document then it's not being followed by most NZers!

[@geotruthnz7013]

The problem is that some Maori have used their perceived indigenous rights to bully other NZers such as the recent blocking boat ramps during the fishing contest up north. I'm Maori but why would we want Iwis to have these special rights over others when they do such petty things. There has to be a middle ground that honours the treaty but stops these radical outlaws.

[@jesseking7668]

That's exactly right mate. Equal rights for all. Anything we can have done to make new zealand a more fair, safe and prosperous is a good thing for all. Not everyone will be happy with changes, but as long as we are taking steps in the right direction.

[@kevin5073]

Because it was THEIR land. At the time of the signing, they outnumbered Europeans 40 to 1. Signing the treaty with the Crown ALLOWED your ancestors to come here and live. And how were they paid back for that generosity? Theft, murder, supression of their culture to name but three. For a 130 years people were happy to take advantage of that and now that the ledger is being evened up, its all 'what about MY rights'.

[@AholeAtheist]

Good. What's radical is actually ignoring history and pretending that the radical things Maori had to endure never happened. Stopping a bunch of people going recreational fishing is not radical.

[@kevin5073]

Nothing ‘perceived’ about it and they are indigenous to this country whether you like it or not.

[@geotruthnz7013]

@@AholeAtheist Those people going recreational fishing are Maori as well. Iwi radical protectionism effects everyone and as happened historically Maori will fight with each other and not just against non Maori. I know this well being a Maori fisherman and Iwi are some of the worst when it comes to pillaging the local fishery. Some Iwi pretend to care for the oceans stopping recreational fishing but often it's an excuse just for control. Extremism is going to make things worse and not heal historic wrongs.

[@taylorjessica4286]

Surely if there's a variation to a contract/legislative agreement both parties have to agree to any variations/changes. Otherwise how can it be the same contract?

[@JamesClark-cg1qk]

There is no variation. The ToW made everyone equal.

[@trihard3d]

Well neither of the parties are alive today.

[@YoCalmYaFarm]

Yes and to do it in ‘good faith’. Not try to wipe the slate clean without any consultation of the other party. As much as David Seemore$$ would like people to believe what an ideal outcome would look like for him, this is not Neverland.

[@aaronjacobs4411]

@@JamesClark-cg1qkyou are right, but obviously there is a little bit more involved!

[@markswanson2716]

​@@trihard3d both parties are alive today because it is a treaty between "the crown" and a collective of Iwi. Both parties are alive and well today. 👍

[@TheNew-s72]

I love Mr. TAME!

[@Mizpah5]

Of course the wider public are allowed to have their say. Not just the elite.

[@mishbeazley6335]

yeah nah...Maori Elite all day every day mate

[@kevin5073]

You could argue the white elite have had too much say.

[@kevin5073]

About time the pakeha elite took a backseat.

[@Aaron-tj9le]

42,000 people on that march, what a turnout! Proud to have been there.

[@feesullivan3439]

All people. We should never decide by race. That happened in the past.

[@Aids183]

Where? and what was the outcome?

[@BlackStallion_19]

Exactly this is an open door for racism

[@turi03175]

Racism everyday trolls are using Moari's history to discredit moari happening right now present moment using it to decide Moari's future in a country Moari own?how was that worked out?by stealing the owners lands truth has to be expressed out no repentance they going to hell if someone a atheist they going to hell once truth is revealed the curses will be lifted in Jesus precious name amen

[@LucMattiske]

​@@Aids183 in South Africa Apartheid, in the USA Segregation, in Australia the Stolen Generation, In Israel Palastinian human crisis.

[@womenofworthtrust5682]

Te tiriti was an agreement between the Queen of England and Maori Not Kiwi and Maori

[@mobbarley7517]

Exactly

[@gbrown9663]

Kiwi is a bird

[@teharipumautonu]

You're right, the crown, the English royal family, not your everyday Joe seymour trying to have a go

[@mitchelldenysschen3224]

And anyone that thinks that the Royal Family in UK have even read or cares about the Te Tiriti is greatly mistaken. Time for all people living in New Zealand to look to each other, wave goodbye to this royal family that does not care about us, and move into the future as a Republic with a new written Constitution.

[@MDL.720]

@@mitchelldenysschen3224 The UK would see this as a mark of disrespect, I'm not sure that would be in our best interest. We're a small, defenceless, and relatively poor country on the global stage, we need as much support as we can get. Especially with the emergence of BRICS.

[@Freedom4NME2025]

If only Our people would open their ears to broadcasts like this 🙏🙏🙏👏

[@Ruru-pj3ve]

It is not about the principles or equal rights, it is a resource grab, follow the money peeps. If the rights of Maori to exercise tinorangatiratanga, and therefore protection, over their lands, estates, forests, fisheries and other treasures (Article two of Te Tiriti) is extingished, then that is an important barrier removed to the wholesale exploitation of Aotearoa's natural resources by corporate interests. We all lose if this Bill is passed .

[@Kereru]

100%. Seymour is a neoliberal. He doesn't care about protecting our resources for the future or the equality of kiwis, he cares about creating a system where corporations and private interests rule supreme.

[@carolosborne2899]

100%!!! You're on to them!!!

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

💯

[@TheSpartacusBrown]

They aren't proposing to change the Articles of the ToW so nothing is being extinguished. Also, iwi are currently exploiting fishery (natural) resources as a commercial entity, so should we follow that money?

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

@@TheSpartacusBrown of course we should- all corruption, nobody is above the law, don't forget- the treaty is the law too, you can say your not changing the treaty, while you change the way it's interpreted, but don't act like there's a difference. It's just another way to skin the same cat.

[@jesseking7668]

Can Seymour pass a bill so new zealanders can effectively block ads from temu?

[@agnesgibson8916]

😃😃2nd thatLL

[@theoriginaltoadnz]

hahaa gold.

[@YeeWhoEnterHere]

No that would be useful, and cause too much mental relief. He's here to do the opposite

[@jamesbroughton7635]

Kia ora Sheryl, While you’re correct the Principles and Treaty and Te Tiriti documents are 2 very different things and have been compiled by scholars (historians especially), courts, Waitangi tribunal, Iwi leaders and Politicians. The Treaty Principles are what is known as the Treaty and Te Tiriti representative in New Zealand law. The problem for David, is that the Principles were built around fair interpretation of both documents and acknowledged Maori as did the treaty and te tiriti. David’s interpretation of the Principles doesn’t align with any of the Treaty or Te Tiriti texts and has been told so by many experts both left and right.

[@geofreyr]

hear hear!

[@ajk4842]

Maori aren't trying to just veto everything. We want to be apart of the process because for too long, the crown just trample and disregard us, and don't care about a group of people who have lived here for centuries. If generations of a Maori community have a Marae next to a river or stream, and use it to gather food, or swim in, or whatever they use it for, and then a developer, farmer, industrial factory, or some organization upstream wants to discharge untreated water into these waterways, we want to be able to be at the discussion table and say "hey guys, that isn't a good idea because you will be effecting this community. Lets discuss other options".

[@StGammon77]

Government shouldnt favour groups sorry, newsflash! ... you're not special

[@ajk4842]

@@StGammon77 They shouldn't, but they have. The Government has favored Europeans for centuries.

[@TheSpartacusBrown]

Your scenario would be awful, but Maori do not need special rights to prevent it. We need to task our goverent with preventing it, which we do. Or is this about the Koha that Maori expect for being at the table?

[@ajk4842]

@@TheSpartacusBrown Māori are outnumbered in their homeland. We know majority of NZers don't care about us and just vote in a new government to trample on us. It has happened now and has before. The treaty is the main thing we use to protect our history and ancient connections to this land and in doing so, we help preserve other parts of NZs natural environment. Because we know most of NZ don't care about it if it isn't bringing in money to their pockets.

[@TheSpartacusBrown]

@@ajk4842 saying "the majority of NZers don't care about us" is a roundabout way of saying Pakeha don't care about us. Which is a generalization based on race, ie racist. It's also untrue. All NZers have common core values that we need to recognize and uphold, that's what makes our community strong. Creating separate status or culture by race should not be one of them.

[@ajk4842]

I think Maori know NZ or the crown will never pay dollar for dollar in compensation for the wrongs that have been committed to Maori. It would be nice but we know there would probably be no more NZ due to bankruptcy. However, we say fine, kei te pai, since you can't return all the land, can't pay us the full amount of what it is worth, we shall require a seat at the decision making table to be able to discuss policies that effect us. For example, if you want your powerlines to run through this area, stay away from placing the pylons or trenches where my ancestors are buried, you can put them anywhere else. If you want to discharge your waste water into the streams we have used for generations, you need to have a treatment system that gets the water to a acceptable quality before discharging. I think, it is these types of things that we are ultimately asking for as a minimum. I guess a form of co-governance. We are not here to block every development or policy under the sun. Some are good. Heck, our ancestors were developers when they first arrived. It's the developments and policies that affect us and are run by the people who don't even care about us that we have a problem with.

[@MDL.720]

If all of the land of NZ was returned to the Maori, most of the highly skilled labour we have here would simply move overseas and the infrastructure would rapidly collapse. "can't pay us the full amount of what it is worth" The primary reason those assets are worth what they are is because of the contribution of ALL NZe'rs. That wealth wasn't created out of thin air. That land is worth nothing without the 200 or so years of sweat and tears ALL NZ'ers have invested into this country since the treaty was signed to make it the prosperous country it is today. Why do Maori people have a right to all of that wealth which they didn't solely create? In regards to the power lines, waste water, etc. This applies to ALL NZ'ers, ALL of us want adequate water treatment and as minimal amount of pollution as possible, ALL of us want to protect the environment, ALL of us want the graves of our ancestors shown respect, I don't see how these issues are exclusive to Maori and therefore require co-governance?

[@ajk4842]

@@MDL.720 We already know it isn't feasible to return all land to Maori. Won't stop us from trying to claim some back. We already know NZ won't pay the full amount. Because of the reasons you pointed out. We understand that land has been worked on by NZ'ers, farmers, companies, NZ has benefited from the development, it doesn't change the fact that our family had been killed for this to happen. In some area's we don't own a blade of grass of a site that our ancestors were killed on by British Forces. So we ask the current landowners to include us in the decisions they make involving the significant area's we have been disposed of. I understand you believe these issues applies to all NZ'ers, but sadly there are too many instances were Maori are left out, ignored, disregarded when it comes to protecting our significant sites that have history dating centuries. But lets protect a 60 year Old Victorian dwelling? We know majority of Europeans don't care about us, we are out numbered in our own homeland. If a development came across the table that negatively affected us, no one would advocate for Maori, more than Maori.

[@ajk4842]

@@MDL.720 We know returning all of the land will be a detriment to NZ and probably be the end of this country. I don't think most educated Maori want that. What we do want is to protect our most sacred places and resources that our ancestors had for centuries before being dispossessed of it by the British. If we can get it back, then cool. If not, then fine. Please let us be part of the decisions that concern these places we once had before being killed for it. We understand the work all NZers role in creating wealth in this country. We don't deny that. But the land was confesicated in the first place. If I stole something from you, gave it to someone else to develop and improve, it doesn't change the fact that it was stolen. We know we won't get back land or dollars of what it's worth. We don't want to dispossess ordinary NZers of their hard work. So for our compensation of being wronged, we ask for at least a seat at the decision making table to try protect what we've lost, and what very little we do have. Unfortunately, no, not all NZers want adequate waste water treatment, minimal pollution, protection of the environment, and protecting our grave sites. The amount of resource consent requests Iwi receive, asking to discharge untreated water into nearby streams and rivers is too much for some iwi to manage. There are still many developments that stumble on our ancestors villages and end up digging their bones. Some mining and construction companies even hide these discoveries to avoid the headache of dealing with Maori. Why do we ask for co-governance? Because we know most Europeans dont care about us, our history and our generational connection to NZ. we are out numbered in our own homeland. When the government makes decisions that impact Maori, even after signing the treaty, no one else will advocate for Maori, more than Māori, the original inhabitants of this land.

[@rockyjones2563]

⁠@@ajk4842 I thought hawaiki was the homeland of Maori?

[@ajk4842]

@@rockyjones2563 Motherland. I think Hawaiki to most Māori, is a place, physically or spiritually, where their ancestors came from before they arrived to their turangawaewae, or place they now call home in NZ. In turn, there are many hawaki. That's why you see many similar names through out the Pacific. Hawaii, Savaii, Havaiki and more.

[@unclejoe7958]

Can anyone else see a conflict of interest regarding the ‘crown’ and Maori ? The so called partnership is between the crown,ie the nz government and Maori. But Maori can be part of the government and also remain as Maori. If the treaty is between the crown and Maori it implies that the crown or government was never intended to include Maori as a parliamentary representative. How can you be both part of the crown and Maori ? Maori signed the treaty acknowledging that the crown would govern nz. There was a complete distinction between the crown and Maori. Nowhere does the treaty state that Maori shall govern. Therefore why are some Maori governing. I have no qualms with Maori in parliament so long as they represent all New Zealanders, but I’m still confused about the distinction and role of crown and Maori.

[@rihipaeahughes9831]

That's why you adopt the Maori nickname "ordinary we are Tangatawhenua

[@StGammon77]

Great points my thoughts as well in fact the Treaty Chiefs warned their people at the 1860 Kohimarama Conference NOT to start political party's. And yeh they are not and never were a completely seperate people there were 500 tribes and they all ended up under the Govt they chose not having any of their own. They sold 90% of NZ and integrated marrying us and producing mixed race can't be separated now they need to be re-educated and all references to the Treaty and principles should be removed from education and legislation.

[@user-mz9mn1re5q]

@@StGammon77mostly māori land was stolen, or villages pillaged and starved, and then māori were coerced into selling the land for much less than it was worth because they were in desperate situations.

[@frankkomene4616]

Crown were meant to govern there own and Maori govern Maori not controlled by the Crown

[@unclejoe7958]

@@frankkomene4616 That’s not how colonisation works. The English, Dutch, French, Portuguese and Spanish would never sign such an agreement. That wouldn’t work. It would be disastrous.

[@ClydeJacobs-q8j]

It's been stood on, spat at, abusive, ripped, thrown OWT the door, in that rat hole building. " GREAT" so what's new

[@jeremyharris5817]

“No iwi has engaged on what those principles are.” Mate, they’ve held two Hui in a month where they’ve engaged with those principles and told you what they think, then they have shown up in force to Waitangi and said very clearly we engaged with the proposed principles and we don’t like them. You just aren’t listening. You call for a discussion then avoid the discussion. A discussion is not a one sided talk fest by you. By your logic, David, you haven’t said anything about the treaty principles because you’ve only spoken to the media and in speeches at Waitangi about it. This is why they drown you out with a waiata that says “listen” , “whakarongo” over and over.

[@oliverlennox6828]

preach brother

[@mikecorrigan4243]

Tena koe e hoa. Tautoko

[@str8gary]

I was surprised at how poorly Seymour's talking points came across under simple questioning (compared to when he makes them in his speeches and videos). IMO he didn't satisfactorily answer the question put to him several times about how one party to a treaty can reinterpret its meaning without the other party's consent. He went back to his points about how the current interpretation of the treaty unfairly benefits Māori, then effectively questioned the relevancy of the treaty today. Clearly, it does matter to a lot of people, particularly when the proposed reinterpretation of the principles purposefully excludes one of the parties.

[@StGammon77]

Maori do not run the Country ok!! Treaty Chiefs warned their people NOT to start political parties read the Kohimarama Conference records

[@StGammon77]

50 years of maori dreaming up additions and principles has been a huge mistake by not having democratic consent, now those fabricated additions need to be defined and agreed upon BY THE PEOPLE , maori do not Govern us you need to get that straight!

[@stephaniemclean3458]

Seymour makes absolutely zero sense. The treaty principle was established over the last 40 years to create a balance between Māori ( the indigenous minority) and the crown. What Seymour is trying to do is to nullify the treaty of Waitangi using his interpretation of the treaty principle bill. As it stands today through the treaty principles bill Maori have a voice on decision making concerning New Zealand and the land. If they take away Māori voices it opens the floodgates to exploitation of New Zealand as a whole. For example the seabed and foreshore would be open to international fishing and mining corporations to pillage and plunder our resources. Not to mention the environmental impacts on our waters and land. Bottom line is I don’t trust Seymour and his ACT party judging from their policies.

[@shaunio]

This is what i find really concerning and im too dumb to understand the changes to marine and coastal act. Does coastal marine titles give iwi the power to veto projects like deep sea mining in taranaki coast?

[@ajk4842]

"Allows people who have property rights, a status that is equal to everyone else". Excuse me Mr Seymour, the crown confiscated and dispossessed Maori from their property after the treaty was signed. Killing men woman and children in the process. But I guess Seymour is trying to say suck it up, tough luck, work your butt off and buy it back huh?

[@ajk4842]

@@PeterHemmingson I don't disagree with most of your copied and pasted collection of sentences. No collective "Maori". And your point is what? Shall we use the collective words Europeans gave us such as "Natives", "Savages", "Cannibals'"? Whatever you want to call it, there were groups of people that long occupied an area prior to Europeans "Discovering" it. I already understand occupation of area's were often temporary, and "te rau o te patu" was how connections to land were made and severed. I understand the so called "waste lands" or areas that are on the outskirts of established tribal territories that blurred borders. However, this was the system that was used, and Maori understood it. When the British came, they brought a their system, Maori didn't understand and enforced it. Yes I believe we have a better LAND OWNERSHIP system for everyone in NZ, but to enforce a new system you bring upon people who didn't understand it, especially if you don't educate them in it, is wrong and just taking advantage. Many Maori who "sold" land didn't have the authority to sell area's as they weren't the sole "owners". Did the British establish who the actual owners are? Or did they only mention the Maori they wanted and they knew they could obtain land from? Maori did not understand the European system of legal land ownership. They would have sold European's air if they'd ask for it. But as Europeans say, these Maori signed a piece of paper that we wrote, we made up, we witnessed. Doesn't matter if Maori weren't educated in this system we have imposed on them. How do we know these deeds of land purchases were correctly and legitimately issued? We only have one side, the European side. We do know the British tricked Maori with TOW not saying the same thing as Maori understood in their version. What makes you think every deed of purchase says the same thing as what Maori understood at the time of the supposed purchase? Do you think Maori who were educated in the European system would sell their lands if they truly understood what it meant to own/buy/sell land in a European context? Maori were a community of people who have an established settlement and way of living, and occupied an area for however long they have, then at the time and following the signing of TOW (supposedly giving protection to ALL NEW ZEALANDERS), gave the right for the British to trick them out of their lands, kill and destroy them and push them out just because, "Sorry, you don't own anything according to our British system we have imposed on you, so be gone." And I do blame the missionaries. They brought the religion as a peaceful offering, knowing they had a tyranny of colonial forces following behind them.

[@StGammon77]

They started a war ffs stupid people

[@StGammon77]

Because they broke the Treaty til 1860 dummy!

[@kayeclarke7561]

​@@ajk4842 Well said!

[@christiancatchpole6614]

The land acquired by europeans were purchased by the new zealand company. Local iwi had agreed to the purchases and the new zealand company paid them. When you talk about "killing woman and children" you make it sound like the british were some viking raiders from the north. Any killing that took place at the time was in retaileatiom from threats or trying to keep law and order in the land.

[@illentertainment1993]

I cant believe we live in a time where saying everyone is equal is seen as a bad thing

[@BFFS4LIFE1718BFFS]

It has Never been fairly equal? Govt want everything. Dont bullshit see less (seymore), what your basically saying is Maori should sit down and shut up and let govt take over. Maori have always been treated differently. I work in local govt where 1% in the office is maori, the rest imigrants and european, where is the "Equality" hah? stop talking smack ❤🤍🖤

[@illentertainment1993]

@BFFS4LIFE1718BFFS your talking about equal outcome that's dangerous and completely different and never works ever in history race is not a factor in what you said at all there is a lot of reasons for what u said unless you won't to ignore all the hard work you put in to get your job

[@Shivaaa308]

Māori have never been treated equally, that’s why we have the treaty established in the first place, it has never ever been there to hold Māori as superior to anything or anyone. Our ancestors had settled in New Zealand before the British came and threw their weight around, imposing their superiority and governance that was never necessary lead alone asked for, and consequently my people have suffered massive trauma that has been passed down through the generations. We have never been treated fairly by the crown and the government and this isn’t about buddying up with all kiwis or kiwis in general…. Our fight is for our people to uphold and maintain our own customs, traditions and way of life, throughout the land this land where our ancestors lay at rest, the land they made home, this is our home, before the British, the crown and anyone else established themselves here, yet we are laughed at and mocked as being the unruly ones, since way back. You have no idea how deep this is for Māori and not only us but all indigenous tribes around the globe!

[@Shivaaa308]

1867 our reo was taken from us and as a result of that, a lot of whānau don’t know how to speak their native language… The 1907 tohunga suppression act, stripping us of the ability to heal our people with organic and natural medicinals and healing strategies and now we’re drugged up in mental institutions… We don’t want anything other than to live and breath Māori! That is who we are! That is what we are! And the crown entity and government have tried, tried and are still trying to TAKE that from us, to “assimilate” us into a way of life that contradicts our own, who we are and what we stand for. No matter who you are or where you come from, no human being alive can thrive and live to their highest potential by living in another’s truth, other than their own! That is what this kaupapa is all about and has always been about, from te taha Māori anyway!!! The fight over the last 184 years! No one is moaning about equality! This is about our mana motuhake!

[@dannyprovalone5110]

@@Shivaaa308 they lost, be happy whites weren't cannibals

[@justinfarrow4803]

Thought I'd watch to try and inform myself, I seem more confused. Sounds like David wants to re interpret the bill of principles to suit what he thinks it should be, without consulting or discussions with the people that one of the founding documents of this country was drawn up to protect in the first place. You dont sign a purchase or rental agreement and then start changing things as you go to suit when you feel like it without the outher party agreeing, so whats the difference with the treaty

[@zanetaranaki7918]

Exactly my take on it too. I heard a lot of 'I' want or 'I' think from David Seymour.

[@Kereru]

Exactly, try telling your bank it's just not practical to pay the rest of your mortgage 😂

[@carlngatai7201]

This sounds like exactly the opposite of what he has been saying

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

Agreed- This is the proverbial forked tongue colonisers are famous for. Can't understand why we don't all follow the money- it always tells the truth.

[@StGammon77]

The principles written are a problem that's why they have to be corrected

[@tonygee3284]

Dismantle the Treaty

[@iBeLordi]

After moving to the Waikato from Wellington from what I have seen is that Maori do not care about Maori they love to talk about how Maori are one people and it's complete bullshit. There has and always will be a class war; the Maori elite have no interests in looking after Maori they're only interested in looking after themselves. So the end result is quite simple David Seymour can see that quite clearly which is putting everyone on the exact same ground with the exact same respect and rights to the land and people who we share this beautiful country with. I am Maori myself but face constant ostracization from those who also claim to be Maori and from years of having my own Mana dishonoured I believe that the values of Maori that were signed under the treaty to be protected are as dead as those who signed said treaty. It's time to move on and there is no time like the future.

[@tanepukenga1421]

It's funny how it's only pakeha saying that

[@TiffanyTwisted-w3q]

Is this really a Maori? I'm reading the way you write and.... the singular video attached to your account is not corresponding. There are many accounts online at the moment that are actually being run by despicable racists with bad intentions and I am concerned. In response to the people you expected to look after you or yours, usually rotten energy is met with such!

[@TiffanyTwisted-w3q]

​@@tanepukenga1421yes there's pakeha pretending to be first nations on all platforms 👀

[@tanepukenga1421]

@@TiffanyTwisted-w3q Ngati Porou and Ngati Pukenga. Yes, I am. And yes, I know there's plenty of false flag actors pretending to be Maori, I regularly call them out when they try fake te reo. If you looked at my account, you'd see how old it is, so I would've had to think about making a false flag account in the first starting years of youtube, and then carried on using it for well over a decade as a main to carry on the farce. Not that logical, eh? The main things in the comment above is the "maori elite" comment, which I've never heard another Maori say in over 30 years of life, them advocating for David suckmore and them pretending we don't still have the same values. Again, in 30+ years I've never met another Maori who didn't value family, stability and being able to live how they want.

[@iBeLordi]

@@TiffanyTwisted-w3q I am Kāi Tahu and for you to think how you do shows how oblivious you are, you clearly let emotions run your thoughts. Here is a thought lesson; when someone is on the street talking about how birds are government spies, we apply logic to the situation and come to the conclusion that no that statement is not based in factual reasoning. Guess what you just commented, your opinion is completely void because the conspiracy you believe simply does not exist. At the end of the day, I am not your enemy since I'm no elite again it's a class war and I don't own anything no house, no land and no future. I am working-class as in working all the time just to have a roof over my head and food to eat. And throwing labels like Pakeha around shows how little you bring to the table of conversation, if you have an opinion you need to articulate it instead of just wanting to insult someone because your feelings got hurt by ideas that you don't understand. That is how children behave, grow up.

[@food4thort]

The Maori version of the Treaty (as translated on the Waitangi Tribunal website): PREAMBLE - Victoria, the Queen of England, in her concern to protect the chiefs and the subtribes of New Zealand and in her desire to preserve their chieftainship and their lands to them and to maintain peace and good order considers it just to appoint an administrator one who will negotiate with the people of New Zealand to the end that their chiefs will agree to the Queen's Government being established over all parts of this land and (adjoining) islands and also because there are many of her subjects already living on this land and others yet to come. So the Queen desires to establish a government so that no evil will come to Māori and European living in a state of lawlessness. So the Queen has appointed 'me, William Hobson a Captain' in the Royal Navy to be Governor for all parts of New Zealand (both those) shortly to be received by the Queen and (those) to be received hereafter and presents to the chiefs of the Confederation chiefs of the subtribes of New Zealand and other chiefs these laws set out here. THE FIRST - The Chiefs of the Confederation and all the Chiefs who have not joined that Confederation give absolutely to the Queen of England for ever the complete government over their land. THE SECOND - The Queen of England agrees to protect the chiefs, the subtribes and all the people of New Zealand in the unqualified exercise of their chieftainship over their lands, villages and all their treasures. But on the other hand the Chiefs of the Confederation and all the Chiefs will sell land to the Queen at a price agreed to by the person owning it and by the person buying it (the latter being) appointed by the Queen as her purchase agent. THE THIRD - For this agreed arrangement therefore concerning the Government of the Queen, the Queen of England will protect all the ordinary people of New Zealand and will give them the same rights and duties of citizenship as the people of England.

[@Andrew1991taxed]

Doesn’t matter, both versions are written by an Englishman. I’m law the primary signatory interpretation stands ie the english

[@planbzy7391]

​@@Andrew1991taxed the indigineous takes precedence in world law

[@food4thort]

FYI The above Maori version of the ToW was translated by Sir Hugh Kawharu and appears on the Waitangi Tribunal website. Both the English and Maori versions clearly cede government of the whole country forever to the British Crown. What is left of 'sovereignty' (Kingitanga - not mentioned in the Treaty) after you carve out the activities of Government is perhaps a debatable point. @@Andrew1991taxed

[@_.Marz._]

​@@PeterHemmingson According to the Cambridge and Oxford definitions...MĀORI ARE CONSIDERED AS INDIGENOUS 😅 C'mon Peteyboy, I know it's a hard pill for superiority-complexes to swallow but welp...the really important question I have for you though is: "Are you paying the right amount in taxes"? I'd hate to see the books unbalanced...that could have a huge impact on my govt handouts 😇😂

[@ajk4842]

@@Andrew1991taxed lol that's stupid. Try that trick with an agreement with another country like China or Russia. Two linguistically different versions of a contract need to mean the same thing.

[@Judith-p3u]

So the prin ciples were created after the treaty ,why

[@222-i6o]

unfortunately 4 jack seymore has quite a profound intellect

[@Ruru-pj3ve]

Seymour is a right wing NPC, repeating talking points developed in right wing think tanks from elsewhere.

[@wolfgangweidinger4637]

@@Ruru-pj3ve Proof please or else its an accusation or distribution of misinformation

[@mikaela5796]

Honour the treaty

[@Wah_wahh]

Ok so using what Seymour is saying i want to see the coalition agreement and I want to make changes to it by kicking act out. Does that mean I can?

[@Handleur]

No, but You can be the village idiot 😂

[@chrisallum9044]

Sure, just start a party, win a portion of the election and form a government. Seymour isn't one person, he is the leader elected to represent people of NZ. You, are one person.

[@Wah_wahh]

@@chrisallum9044 Ok so just because 246,409 people decided to vote for that, that means that 5,006,500ish (give or take) also voted for it? That doesn't make sense.

[@Wah_wahh]

@@chrisallum9044 as for the rest of the coalition, its hardly a win when it was the lowest turn out of voters in the past 3 elections alone, which means less people voted, and they still could NOT form a majority govt. That doesn't scream that a country as a whole decided this. Only the select few of course. 🤗

[@Rodtang-x5z]

​@WW-ne5lb Absolutely. It takes them three parties to become a government, and before they can even get off the ground they had to form a coalition agreement. That will have by default forced compromise in each parties camp. That does not mean in ANY way shape or form that NZ were all for three different parties to run this country. Luxon got in to power by the skin of his teeth which should be more than enough to show people that he did NOT have overwhelming numbers to get over the line on his own. It was hardly a landslide win by any measure.

[@roywalker7512]

If it goes to a referendum, Maori are on a hiding to nothing. When the Maori version of Te tirity was signed by most Rangatira, Maori out numbered non Maori About 100,000 to 2,500-3000. And it was agreed upon by the majority, but broken in no time at all. What I am saying is, Maori at no time signed away their sovereignty. It has consistently been the aim of those who pander to their wealthy masters, to strip Maori of their lawful rights. Seymour says he is all about better education, better health, and wealth outcomes, why is it necessary to take away/ tamper/change Maori rights to achieve these outcomes.

[@wellygeek]

Equal mana for all. Please make it so Mr Seymour! You have my support!

[@rangisullivan1591]

Seymour principle will be based on his hero of 1877 attorney general sir james prendergast who claimed the treaty a nullity on the the premises that one cannot have a treaty between a bunch of savages and a civilized nation,with that maori were alienated from thier lands,he instigated parahaki slaughter perpetual leases dead or alive bounties on certain maori leaders,Seymour is fast becoming one of the most reviled person after his hero sir james prendergast,his racists proclamations was one of the reasons the waitangi tribunal was formed and sanctioned by people of far superior intellect than the act people.

[@RJH755]

3:06 You've gotta love when politicians justify constitutional changes based on anecdotes about "people who say in my work place a feel-" Ah yes Billy Bob from Nelson is trying to find an excuse for why he didn't get promoted, better get rid of the treaty principles which are already a compromise for Maori...

[@MDL.720]

So 'diversity hiring' and 'affirmative action' are just made up terms?

[@Tareana777]

I like the sound of rule 3, however there must be complete transparency. Can pakeha even have mana? Why does he keep saying it like it’s an English word

[@danwilliams6172]

Good on you David for pushing of one New Zealand not division.

[@AholeAtheist]

LOL. He is the one pushing division. Intelligent pakeha have solidarity with Maori. That is unity. Seymour is just playing to the low IQ racists.

[@jamesbroughton7635]

Question I ask is from whose book of equality are you reading from?

[@franciltarau-eagle9150]

If that's the case, why is he not fighting for māori with regards to the perpetual leases and every other issue that is not equitable for māori 🤔🤔

[@jamesbroughton7635]

@@franciltarau-eagle9150 Who's asking anyone to take away perpetual leases? Perpetual leases is something Maori Landowners agree too, and is passed in the Maori Land Court.🙄🙄

[@franciltarau-eagle9150]

@@jamesbroughton7635 get savvy with the info before spouting off, many iwi are at battles with this very thing. You need to watch the latest doco by Mata. You know nothing!!!!!!!

[@brendanlee1416]

Worrying that our Associate Minister of Justice thinks the highest court in the land is the "NZ parliament" (8:25) and that NZ is a republic (11:20). Beyond that Seymour's argumentation is muddled. Seymour cherry-picks his way along a spurious line of argument, invoking the highest principle as the deciding factor on one hand and then the most practical as the deciding factor on another. He clearly does not understand much about Universal Human Rights as these are intended to append to persons as individuals and not to human beings (5:23 ) as a species. They are distinctly related to personal and collective identity and therefore the rights of indigenous persons to maintain their identity are equal to that of non-indigenous persons to maintain their identity and vice versa. This is made very clear in the many articles of the Declaration of Human Rights and subsequent covenants and conventions. His meandering argument in which he attempts to equate the impracticality of compensating the "many people in this country who have come here landless, penniless..." (13:00) (who had or have no contractual basis for compensation) with the Crown's duties to continue to uphold the constitutionally binding agreement they made in 1840 with the signatories to the treaty is just plain silly.

[@222-i6o]

so cant merge human rights with tribal rights....as we have seen in nz iwi elites have had all the benefits, and i dont understand the issue with crown payments being peenys on the dollar by todays market valuations as when land was confiscated nz did not have the infrastructure upgrades it does today....wuld ngati whatua be worth over a billion dollars if auckland cbd wasnt a financial hub ?

[@blinka1]

​@@222-i6o- tribal , indigenous, and treaty rights are not only not in conflict with Universal Human Rights, they are the rights that in a decent society must be upheld as they in general are the rights individuals and collectives who are most disadvantaged. Seymour is insisting on a very simple formulation of equality before the law, a kind of justice as process. However useful to neoliberal political thinkers hell bent on making all aspects of the economy, society and environment open for exploitation, process justice is likely to eliminate the important nuamces of distributive justice in the form of justicecas fairness, and in the process "scuse pun" deprive many indigenous people of their rights and the capacity to flourish.

[@222-i6o]

indigenous ppls are not alwys disadvantaged, and there rights need to be upheld as equal citezens of a cuntry....playing favorites is a road to oppression its plain and simple u cant have one ppls above another ....free market economics has made us a 1st world capitalist nation the state cant build an economy only private enterprise. maoricorporate iwi have billions its time thy spent tht money on ther ppls @@blinka1

[@acegikmoii]

Seymour is brilliant! He gently calls Jack out (TVNZ) for pushing a political position from the far-left by suggesting it may not be Jack's own personal view. I respect the way Seymour is able to calmly control his thoughts in such an articulate and logical fashion. Luxon is truely as weak as water by comparison in my view.

[@pariscooper5458]

😂😂😂 Seamen ain't good at all! 😂

[@ajk4842]

I don't see Luxon as weak. He's weak to you because he doesn't follow your views. He said he won't support Acts bill past first selection, and he's sticking to it. How's that weak? Luxon just has a little spider trying to run the ship. Seymour isn't even Deputy prime minister yet.

[@acegikmoii]

@@ajk4842 I was considering Luxon's ability to be convincing. He comes across to me as weak because he may not be resolute in the position he has been primed to follow by the WEF-infiltrated NZ Civil service. His interests toward the people of this country are not genuine to me as I observe him. He is batting for the same globalists whose slow agenda is destroying Europe, the USA, and most other western countries which have been far too readily (and easily) subverted to follow socialism rather than capitalism. Six years to go, but the changes will be rapid even this year. Look at the digital cage of street cameras (added to by the day) that has been quietly assembled around us. Nobody looks up, nobody notices.

[@angelahacche739]

@acegikmoii Absolutely! It is refreshing to see the articulate, calm response from David to a clearly biased, unprofessional journalist clearly showing his political leanings. Tame should perhaps refresh himself on the principles of journalism. A masterclass by David on calling him out on his 'personal' views. Tame was totally outclassed.

[@Dee_Aotearoa]

Not sure how it's fair to go ahead and do something without asking consent of the other party and do as they please? Seems a very disrespectful way about doing things - no matter what background you come from. We need to work together as a partnership, acknowledge we are two peoples - and carry on with what we BOTH want! And that's a better life for all and our children.

[@randymagnum7817]

Go David. Best politician we have in NZ

[@DW_Kiwi]

So Clearrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!

[@whateverbro9002]

Finally gets to have his say, and actually he's right.

[@DolGuldur2000]

This election I'll be party voting ACT because of the march

[@kpopmessedmalifeup]

You're dense

[@overover..]

So nice to see David debated by a formidable intellectual, instead of misrepresented by hacks

[@AholeAtheist]

LOL. Jack Genocide Supporter Tame is not that. And David hasn't been misinterpreted just because some people see through his disingenuous lies and dog whistles. Perhaps you need to go back to school.

[@SendManHell069]

@@AholeAtheist Give some evidence there are no lies buddy.

[@jaredwilliams6379]

How about we all just get on with keeping this little cog turning smoothly. Lets keep the economy strong so that we can all enjoy the benifits of a productive country. Lets help out that neighbour and not have double standards. Much love

[@jackie7892]

I like the number 3 refined principle : all New Zealander should have equal rights … no one is above other ethics , like UsA and AU

[@margaretpowell5447]

Do you think the American Indians have the same rights or the Aborigines.

[@dasheimataiti]

Or African Americans aswell who have been striped of their original identity culture and language gone

[@haydenkelliher2859]

@@margaretpowell5447 NZ got a much better deal with the crown

[@daisyandcoffee1]

Absolutely they don’t

[@HelenYvetteFoster-el5mr]

So 👍 true

[@lilyfuzz1]

Wow Seymour talks the spin.

[@dominicprice1043]

This is the worst racial slinging I have seen in NZ for many years, and now being talked about across the globe; people are now forced to choose sides, many people swayed by paid online social media influencers. I was happy the way it was... didn't affect or bother me as a non Maori New Zealander.

[@222-i6o]

so equality for all is some how racist ....u r confused

[@YourProfessor1974]

Yeah you’re spot on. All I hear is people whinging. People who follow politics, especially via MSM are all doom and gloom. From what I’ve seen David Seymour’s just another woke politician

[@JamesClark-cg1qk]

The principle of equal rights for all is paramount.

[@dominicprice1043]

Didn't we promised maori their rights for the atrocities they suffered through colonisation of over 100 years, being out numbered and over powered and not allowing them to speak maori at our schools. It seems, now we have changed our minds? And are now going to copy the Australians and go for a majority vote, knowing Maori will probably be out numbered and over powered, so we can put restrictions on their language? So I'm not sure about equal rights, well not yet anyway. @@JamesClark-cg1qk​

[@charmaineilaiutalei3316]

Why do you need a bill to feel equal? We all have equal value but what has that got to do with governance? We can't all govern this nation and its resources. We can't all be the Indigenous of a place. So get over it and accept that Māori were here first and many of us live and enjoy their unceded property

[@jonathantepairi2664]

When the treaty was written into english,,,there was no consultation with maori about the definitions, infliction ,and meaning of what each word meant to convey ,as a result the rushed treaty took only a few days to complete by two pakeha , once again without consultation with iwi,hapu or chiefs about what was going to be written in the treaty. ,and after the consent of the people was signed or the treaty of waitangi in this instance,,,,,by signing the treaty the english knew they could ratify that doccument using the doctrine of christian discovery with the term terra nullius which means nobody's land or land that nobody owns and effectively allowed them to seize land beloning to the indigenous populations because they were seen as not human and non christian ,,,my point here is if the treaty of waitangi was used to confiscate maori land under that premise then the treaty would to have had legal binding status under domestic new zealand law for the confiscation to be legal ,yet today the treaty has no legal status in new zealand law or the international law because it was an agreement signed between two parties yet despite not having legal status it was used to take maori land and to claim sovereignty of its people and its resources this shows the hypocracy of European christian law and the decipt and betrayal of context in that treaty

[@tiffanylong1644]

Pls do not dwell on the history, it does not help the trauma recovery. The government protects the Maori lots. Look at other island countries such as Tanga, Fiji, Samoa, and Vanuatu, they are seeking to move to NZ because they did not have the Crown to sign a treaty with them. China is the second largest economy and did not have a colonizer, but the Chinese moved to NZ more and more. Why? Because the Crown did not sign a treaty with the Chinese. If the British did not colonize NZ, another country must colonize NZ. At that time and in the situation, 100000 Maori held a big land without a law framework to manage and advance weapons to protect this country effectively, and they fought with each iwi, how could it avoid the fate of the colonized? If the colonizer were Russian or the CCP, the Maori's situation would be worse than now. Move on pls, only go forward, then everything will become better.

[@andyoliver5140]

I agree with david on this

[@erina4586]

Also, one more thing, if this coalition govt has plotted against the Gisborne roads by cutting funding in half, well then, whats to stop Maori from asking China to help us fix our roads and properly? China just recently helped the Africans in their country Africa.

[@iamheartslight]

"Wrong the rights of the past" a notable Freudian slip by David Seymour as his conclusion of this interview...

[@AholeAtheist]

Perfect.

[@john23402]

A co-government is deemed illegal according to an English translation of the te reo Māori Tiriti by Professor I.H. Kawharu (1988), a respected Māori chief and academic. The First Article : "The chiefs ... give absolutely to the Queen of England forever the complete government over their land." The Second Article : "The Queen of England agrees to protect the Chiefs, ... of their chieftainship over their lands." The first article assures that the New Zealand government is a sole government entity. Maoridom supporters misuse the second article to support the chieftainship in governance. However, according to article one, the Maori cannot establish a government. By referring to the Treaty in English, the Crown only guarantees "the Chiefs ... possession of their Lands" rather than chieftainship. The conclusion is that the Maori marchers can now go home with peace of mind, bearing more understanding about their Te Titiri.

[@vegaskiwi4255]

It is time for the people to decide - A referendum on this should occur - All people in NZ will benefit from a better definition, one that is decided by the people.

[@mikilonimoli3835]

That’s what happens when the crown wrote the treaty in Maori and English. The crown lied. The Maori signed the maori version that isn’t the same as the English version. Toitu te tiriti, honour the treaty.

[@Silivelio]

Throughout the country institutions are the most important noticeable information about your rights as a human being deserves respect and dignity. How then these rights applies to this matter?

[@eddiegilbertwakefield3301]

Whereas the Treaty of Waitangi established the special relationship between the Maori people and the Crown. (it doesn't say the Maori people and the Third party Trustee Company masquerading as the NZ Govt.)

[@OzymandiasFGC]

The way he slithers around straightforwardly answering questions to go back to his canned 'color blind' talking points is impressive. What's even more impressive is some people seem to un-irronaclly buy his rhetoric.

[@janicestephenson602]

Interesting that Seymour is defining what Māori have been subject to under dominant culture Pakeha.

[@kevinrogers2774]

Is it not time we, New Zealand, grew up and created, turned the treaty, and this discussion into a constitution?

[@StGammon77]

We already have Commonwealth Magna Carta

[@dislikebutton8789]

“New Zealand has the right to govern New Zealand” crazy it needs to be restated. As a Canadian we are 20+ years off something as rational as this.

[@lightweightbuddy]

Probably the most misrepresented and misunderstood politician in NZ.

[@AholeAtheist]

LOL. No.

[@mariarandall9865]

Yes Act started this division

[@ananamu2248]

Be careful New Zealanders ....be aware that stirring up can come from outside the country If one party frames the proposals then duscussion is defined by yes and no to those proposals ....if the proposals are mapped out by several participants ,then it becomes more like a negotiation with options being generated . The truckers involvement in the last covid protest made it more militant and aggressive until the creative ones took over . Please stay aware of divisive dangers .

[@jasonpickens9839]

Just wait until it passes first reading and goes to the select committee then everyone can make submissions and lobby their MPs

[@Rodtang-x5z]

Just tell the truth David...if reparations to Maori were on dollar for dollar terms, it would bankrupt the country for many many years...thats why Maori have had to accept the peanuts the Crown offered as it was better than nothing as the alternative... Just as an example... Tainui's initial settlement deal was for 170 million... Total estimated value of all that Tainui lost...15 billion dollars... And thats just ONE iwi's settlement deal...Tainui alone will have bankrupted the country for years if the crowns settlement deals were based on dollar for dollar terms...

[@jackie7892]

If it hinders how the country is going forward , it should be refined

[@kingdavid3066]

this country has gone nothing but backwards my whole life, i think these supremacists should take a seat for a maori prime minister

[@resourcerods]

not at all. It isn't up to white people to redefine a treaty signed by the crown and the maori people

[@TheNew-s72]

Based on what?

[@TheNew-s72]

Basis- no foundation, no structure.

[@TheNew-s72]

Hit me up

[@kiwibird2024]

The assumption that indigenous people have equal rights is quite far from the truth. Name me a colonised country where the indigenous were treated fairly and equally. To say this is about universal humanity is purely to get people onside. It's like saying, listen we know you've been disadvantaged for 200 years, but now we don't want you to have a say anymore. That's fair right? Just because YOU don't have to see inequality, does NOT mean it doesn't exist. And anyway, why does the NZ government, which is an extension of the crown, get to just TAKE full control? The Maori never gave it up. I'm not even Maori, it's just logical. None of this nonsense makes any sense.

[@squashum778]

Māori don’t want equal rights, they want ‘ special ‘ rights.

[@turi03175]

Never been equal you live moari if not you know FA

[@izaiahlomax6239]

i’m māori, i feel like i have the same rights as you do, only difference is that i’m probably prettier then you

[@mishbeazley6335]

now your learning bra...

[@tanepukenga1421]

funny how it's always pakeha telling everyone what maori want

[@dannyprovalone5110]

@@izaiahlomax6239 OMG I very much doubt that

[@BlackStallion_19]

So hard working people who gained land are now striped because theya ain't maori wtfrk

[@kandredfpv]

David Seymour's argument has many flaws but the one obvious one is the assumption that after suffering decades of oppression and being deprived of their own resources, which others used to amass generational wealth, a people can be told, "we are all now equal" and that will be enough. 😂 This is so naive it's laughable! Equity is the only way to right those wrongs, and equality is not the same as equity.

[@EricMiller-wf9lt]

So you think Maori have suffered and they are actually entitled to special privileges that's laughable your a little bitch Maori have suffered 180 years and not even alot of Thier suffering is Thier own fault they where fucking slaves by Thier own people brutally fuck your a little girl Maori even fought with the British to take land off other iwi also you little bitch you think Maori have suffered way more than Europeans the first Europeans to live with Maori known as the pakeha Maori where all slaves well alot where alot of them where enslaved by Maori alot rose to high ranks they are known as the pakeha Maori because they became fluent in Maori and wound up with tamokos Jacky marmon is a well known pakeha Maori also the treaty was signed by English and Maori you think Maori have suffered what about the Irish they have suffered from imperialism to be honest this whole narrative is weak and cowardly and low IQ no common sense if you look at things from a scientific and humanitarian point of view

[@EricMiller-wf9lt]

Also you little girl Maori aren't native it's like trying to say the Vikings are native to Greenland because they discovered it and settled the land first how pathetic get real

[@wolfgangweidinger4637]

You need to talk to those who got the billions in settlements.

[@ajk4842]

@@PeterHemmingson yes there are some of us that have climbed out of the crab barrel. But who put us in there in the first place? British did when they took our lands, killed our people, and continue to disregard the effects of what they did to us. I agree we need education to get us out of the hole. It is up to us. But we will hold something against you for wronging us in the first place. Trauma does get carried down through generations but a single person can change their cycle. Just as benefits of wealthy families are able to carry wealth through generations unless someone decides to through it away. It doesn't change the fact that British had placed Māori in a disadvantaged position, and then just expect us to catch up to them instantly.

[@ajk4842]

@@PeterHemmingson James Cowan is another British paid historian writing what his own interpretations of oral accounts. Of course British would down play the number of Māori they killed. The west still down plays their killings of people today. Māori were different in which they over stated the number of people they killed through oral history. It doesn't matter tho, the British still have a long history of killing natives where ever they went.

[@guyl9208]

Universal Human Rights for the win woop.

[@jasonpoihegatama1347]

The treaty is clear already. The treaty gives Maori rights should the Maori ask the crown to forfeit there right's

[@Battleneter]

Have you actually taken the time to read it yourself, honestly I can tell you haven't. The Te Reo version is tiny, its poorly written and extremely vague, makes vague refences to land ownership but does not actually define who owns what as an simple example. Hell there is still arguments around Maori ceding sovereignty to the British Crown even though its clearly written in both versions.

[@jasonpoihegatama1347]

read it your self- In Article 1, the Treaty in Māori gave Queen Victoria governance over the land. In English, it gave Queen Victoria sovereignty over the land In Article 2, the Treaty in Māori guaranteed rangatira ‘te tino rangatiratanga’- full rights of chieftainship over their lands, villages and taonga (treasured things). It also gave the Crown the right to deal with Māori in purchasing land. In the English version of the Treaty, rangatira are given ‘exclusive and undisturbed possession’ of lands, forests, fisheries and other property. The Crown was also given an exclusive right to deal with Māori in purchasing land.@@Battleneter

[@Battleneter]

@@jasonpoihegatama1347 The argument is Maori did not understand what they singed, BUT then these same people argue its a legal binding live document, its ridiculous lol

[@jasonpoihegatama1347]

Some Maori do make that argument it is they did not know they were going to be treated bad by the crown and become second class in there own land. However the treaty agreement is clear legal binding document @@Battleneter

[@Battleneter]

@@jasonpoihegatama1347Maori have EXACTLY the same rights as me. I should add NZ has become a modern democracy, the British Crown is all but gone, entirely symbolic, its the main reason why the treaty is largely pointless here in 2024. Most Kiwis that identify as "Maori" here in 2024 also have European ancestry, makes the entire debate even more stupid. But we know its about land and $$, that's why this stupidly drags on.

[@robertmiller2173]

Jack Tame is a worry; he doesn’t have any logic! Yes it is good to see that we are allowed to comment. I was a Labour Member and voter and then Jacinda was caught out playing games with democracy; comments on NZ media were removed under Jacinda’s rule. So now I’ll vote ACT and become a member!

[@JohnWick-gk2bc]

‼️SEYMOUR IS RIGHT!! EQUALITY FOR ALL KIWIS NOT JUST FOR SOME!!👍‼️

[@nznative8825]

No, sadly, he is not.

[@John-kv7jo]

One nation, one flag, one people.

[@roalddahl1623]

He is right - far right!

[@MrAhuapai]

Historically NZ has been like one large monopoly game where players who were white got to travel around the board , buy up all the property and collect money as they passed go . Māori players on the other hand were seated on the sidelines. Eventually sick of , being poor and powerless, the Māori player went to the courts to say this game is rigged, all our property is now in the hands of all the other players and we have clear evidence that this has impacted negatively on the non players for generations. The courts agreed with the evidence and told the Bank you need give up some of the property and give money to the Māori players so at least they can get started in the game. Unfortunately when the Bank started to do exactly that, many of the other players whose parents and grandparents who had been successful in the game and handed down all their wealth to the latest generation all complained bitterly. They even managed to convince those who played but never won anything that these new players were cheating and stealing from their bank. We are all equal they yelled on social media and in their ACT party huddles. It’s simply not fair they cried from their family bach in Coromandel.

[@BamBam-uf4yi]

The government can't change the treaty its the treaty that gives them the right to govern the country. Btw. Where the hell are they gonna dig up 200 maori chiefs to sign off on the new treaty.

[@mishbeazley6335]

well theres yr answer; cant so dont

[@StGammon77]

Exactly, they spoke their intent its all recorded in the Kohimarama Conference papers in fact there's a book now called Kohimarama Conference by Tross Publishing plus other astonishing books of compiled documentation that throws a truth light on deceiving Maori Treaty tougher and racists

[@stevandunn2437]

He’s not proposing to change the treaty. He’s proposing to change the treaty principles that were done under the Lange govt

[@StGammon77]

It's the 1000 pages of principles that's the problem, it's like adding to the Bible, but because maori brownists have created a monster it now needs to be defined as the Country now has a grievance with the Crown and we matter!!

[@christiano9693]

Who the hell is a chief in 2024 to talk for the Maoris? They can talk and vote by themselves if there is a voting. Anyways I don't think a democracy should distinguish by ethnicity the population, if the majority agrees and there is no differentiation in the law between population by ethnicity (every citizen is equal) no one can have the balls of say "i being mistreated" by be equal to others in rights and duties. My opinion as Spaniard, by the way, is not my country to know your specificities.

[@bodietihoihuitoroataylor6722]

if you are coming to the country to live, please learn the basics.

[@vanessagardner1382]

When we are talking about the same rights and duties, all I hear is that western philosophies and systems should remain dominant and be universal. Special status is recognition that as the founders of Aotearoa we decide how to shift our country forward ideologically, together. Through working in collaboration with Māori as tangata whenua we can enrich our society and shift towards equity. Redefining the treaty principles as he has stated seems like code for a 'business as usual' approach which ultimately delievers poorer outcomes for disadvantaged communities, our climate, our economy and human rights. The societal benefits of programmes that increase equity for Māori continue to benefit us all. Just one example is the revitalisation of te reo Māori and the mana and cultural knowledge that it stores, connecting people to their whakapapa and broadening our views on ourselves, philosophy and our relationship with others and the world. There are two world views that were connected through Te tiriti and we are only now, shifting towards integrating both of them in our culture. Kia kaha and lets keep moving forward towards that kaupapa 💜

[@StGammon77]

Maori learnt everything from Pakeha its our Nation of British rule of Westminster everyone loves the Country we built and the peaceful society never mind the rambling racist Maori

[@StGammon77]

I am Tangata whenua on my land thankyou it just means the person's on that land. You aren't tangsta whenua of anyone else's property at all youre definition is erroneous because you just don't know the meaning. This is why NZ voted your type out!

[@ajk4842]

​@@StGammon77tourists come to see Maori and the culture we have. They come to see the nature Māori fight to protect. They don't come to see your 3rd class version of a western society. They have better cities to see.

[@rockyjones2563]

@@ajk4842what do you do to protect “the nature?” Maori are responsible for the extinction of a number of native species

[@StGammon77]

No

[@rick-the-anglo-saxon]

The better and proper answer to the justification for one party to change the contract is that - that is not what is happening. Maori people are represented in Parliament on the basis of their nationality and consulted with by their elected representatives.

[@johnflave]

The only thing that mattered was the land. Māori had it, settlers wanted it, the Treaty meant settlers could put in place a government that would only be voted for by those with land, land owned freehold in the European way. Māori weren’t allowed to vote, because they had the most land. It took years for maori to get a vote, and even then it wasn’t an equal vote, because they had numbers.. It had to be a special vote, a Māori vote, on a separate roll. Māori have been dispossessed of their land, a right to have a say in the running of the country. Now you want to change the rules again, because they have become a force.. Shame on you Act. You cannot deny Māori the right to Māori land and the laws enacted to give them food, health and education as promised under the land deal made. We aren’t equal, and cannot ever be, until the 170 years of power and wealth stripping has stopped.

[@illogicalslayer9856]

Agreed in full. This is just like when Italian and Nazi fascists stripped rights from their citizens because they thought they should no longer be citizens. Maori being a national group with rights recognised by the Crown as well as their own confederacy of Nations are just an easy scapegoat like fascists always use.

[@Hup-x1y]

To the bone " deep "

[@dgm2593]

Kiaora te korero!

[@JamesClark-cg1qk]

Maori didn't own NZ. They inhabited small pockets of it, dependimg on the tribe. And Maori males had the vote ahead of non landowning European males.

[@Mark-d5o5e]

@@JamesClark-cg1qk and now because of the 2017sir Edmond Hillary global impact visa scam more small pockets of land has inhabitants behind everyone's back .. like it never happened but still is happening cause no one's noticed it pushed through so fast at the begining of the 2017 realm .. . If your a good dancer why come to nz bring your family become a kiwi .. migrants population makes Maori population look obsolete .. looking at current history not digging up old .. Maori 16.5% other 13.7 % what is other in the census homeless 😉

[@patriciabuchanan9131]

Love this if it goes through ,as it is my maori grandkids think they have more than their pakeha cousins ...it causes division

[@LWJCarroll]

11:42. this is about what we have here in New Zealand. Treaties overseas are for those people to figure out, nothing to do with New Zealand. The politicians should leave this to the Courts as we have done for the past 40 years or so. We already have universally applying Laws here in NZ along with being part of the Maori or Crown side of the Treaty and Tirity. I am quite happy with this thanks. No need to change anything.

[@Ruru-pj3ve]

Agree what do internal German politics have to do with us?

[@E2EK131MM]

Sounds logical.

[@Handleur]

He makes sense, it's the way I feel. It needs to be clear in everyone's head. Let's bring it on, let's bring to the table.

[@tearkshunta5407]

What exactly needs to be clear? Honoring the Treaty!!!! yes I agree. Seymour Butts just contradicted himself and tried to dodge Jacks questions so he had to repeat the question.

[@Handleur]

@@tearkshunta5407 I will say this once the whole treaty and now shut your stupid mouth

[@Hup-x1y]

Wat does it truly mean for all NZers without diminishing or changing the treaty of waitangi and maori customary rights , , ,

[@Handleur]

@@Hup-x1y stop abusing the English language you racist. This is a serious disgusting insult Wat is spelt What.

[@illogicalslayer9856]

How does he make sense? If this was a world wherein the treaty was upheld from the start we would probably have an entwined government of Māori and Crown at the moment. Not one where Māori are still second class citizens in Aotearoa New Zealand. If the treaty was upheld from the start there would be no situation where they would need "extra rights" (there are no such extra rights, it is just people complaining about having to uphold the treaty) to fix past wrongs by now.

[@patriciatehaate236]

Well actually an equal agreement between Maori and Act ??? JUST Wheres the Equality .

[@danj9339]

Good man David. Spot on!

[@rihipaeahughes9831]

Rangatira of the first rank signed nga tiriti, became equal official leaders in their rununga as the introduced magistrates of post tiriti, what is concerning is the turncoat goverance bringing in Australian Aborigional welfare officials, to care for our humanity, stop blatantly overlooking tangatawhenua

[@m-m-p5281]

How can he say that there are Maori who are getting opportunities over others based on their ethnicity being Maori? That ridiculous and under fair employment laws that’s bullshit

[@greyhamlogan2255]

Maori are not the indigenous race. We have a treaty with those who ate the original occupants.

[@aubreyselwyn6020]

That's another English myth made up story. Ask the Moriori, they still survive today.

[@maarie6262]

Oh sheez. Really? This incorrect rhetoric is the result the NZ education system not knowing/teaching Aotearoa NZ history.

[@Aaron-tj9le]

What a dumb and misinformed thing to say

[@babylelus6581]

Way to go jack.

[@lastofthewildmen4683]

Historical records show instances where certain Maori chiefs or leaders entered into agreements with European settlers to sell land without consulting or obtaining the consent of all members of their tribes or communities. These transactions, often facilitated by language barriers, cultural misunderstandings, or coercion, resulted in significant loss of land for many Maori communities. The benefits to Maori chiefs who engaged in selling land without proper consultation with their tribal people varied depending on the circumstances. In some cases, chiefs may have received immediate material gains such as weapons, tools, blankets, or other goods from European settlers in exchange for land. Additionally, they may have perceived the agreements as a way to establish alliances or secure protection from potential conflicts with other Maori tribes or European settlers.

[@mordfustang3794]

Yeah, sure. The historical records compiled by the european colonizers. The european colonizers were the most perfect human beings ever. Never killed, never looted, never forced, and certainly never abused the naivety of the more naive natives.😂

[@cadewishart9757]

@@mordfustang3794 my brother don't act like Maori were perfect either. The tribe i whakapapa too, Ngati Whatua, was defeated and disbursed by Ngapuhi (Hone Hika) in the 1800s. Maori were not stupid either. They took the opportunities they had at the time, traded and fought as they saw fit. The nature of humanity does not change just because the resources they have access to were less.

[@hoaniwitana1104]

No the treaty has never been Honored it was dishonerd by pakeha not long after being signed .

[@BlackStallion_19]

They knew what they were doing and you know that

[@ajk4842]

@@BlackStallion_19 yes some chiefs knew they were selling land, they had no authority over, to disposess land underneath their enimies feet. British wouldn't care to establish the true owner of land before buying it from the so called owner. They just wanted the land by any means. Let someone sell your house they have no authority over and the government (that's meant to protect your rights) allows it, see how pissed you get.

[@Well_Edumacated]

I have no preference in the discussion but i find it interesting that when the presenter brings up past treaty breaches and monetary redress Seymour is like well i don’t see “how it’s going to work”.

[@Taiwan-NZ]

In last 5 years NZ has 4 billion more budget for Māori! All are taxpayers’ paid money!

[@YourProfessor1974]

Are you whinging? I swear it’s all I hear these days. First world problems I guess

[@YoCalmYaFarm]

Can you a provide link to the resources on where you got that information from?

[@arenuzzle6282]

4 billion lol what a load of rubbish. Stupid gronk

[@Ruru-pj3ve]

Provide the evidence

[@wolfgangweidinger4637]

@@Ruru-pj3ve Go to the people who got billions in settlements or got billions in separate social institutions doubling up on taxpayer money that could be spend in these mundane things like hospitals where we now have affirmative action by race. A heart attack is surely different depending what color skin one has 🙄🙄

[@laundrynz6747]

David Seymour spouts out a few Maori words someone probably writes for him, but to go from that to thinking he can understand the Treaty of Waitangi is just horrible to listen to. Even a basic contract has more nuance than Mr Seymour seems to get from the Treaty. The Crown has a whole royal family in the UK and they co-exist with a government they have little or no power over. The governments of NZ are currently apologising for their state care system and they admittedly say it's not fixed; one failure at a time please!

[@solomonmatthews8775]

In 1835 Maori were declared a sovereign nation under He Whakaputanga which was recognized by another sovereign nation the United Kingdom. Maori as the sovereigns of Aotearoa entered into a partnership with the British Crown via the signing of Te Tiriti o Waitangi in 1840 bringing about a new beginning for both Maori, the Crown and Non-Maori (British Subjects) currently living in Aotearoa at that time. This is the distinction between Maori and Non-Maori living in NZ. Non-Maori citizens living in New Zealand are not Treaty Partners, they are beneficiaries of the Te Tiriti because their Sovereign formed a relationship with Maori. This is facts but it does not mean that Maori are not inclusive, this does not mean that Maori want apartheid between Maori, the Crown and Non-Maori residents and citizens living in Aotearoa/New Zealand both past and present. So to look at Maori in the same light as you would a Non-Maori citizen is incorrect. The correct way of looking at things and the structure of New Zealand is and should be the following... There are two authorities and two powers in Aotearoa / New Zealand... 1. Maori Under Maori you have all Maori descendants who are beneficiaries of He Whakaputanga and Te Tiriti o Waitangi and Non-Maori descendants who reside here in Aotearoa under Maori Sovereignty who have come into Aotearoa through Maori. This does not apply to Non-Maori residents who have come into Aotearoa by way of the Crown. The reason why this is not visibly seen is because Maori are yet to establish a Whare o Nga Rangatiratanga o Aotearoa (Maori Parliament) and suffered colonization and assimilation by the Crown representatives for the last 184 years and continuing. 2. The Crown Under the crown you have British subjects and Non-British subjects which includes all Non-Maori and Non-British citizens that resides in New Zealand who have come into New Zealand by way of the Crown. The Governing stewards of the Crown have spent the last 184 years strengthening their hold of the country by way of deceit, fearmongering and establishing a narrative that Maori are ugly, despicable, criminals, violent, thieves, supporters of apartheid, lack the capability of governing and managing affairs and that Maori just wants to take from everyone for their own self benefit.

[@StGammon77]

No, the Independence was from warring tribes done together with the missionaries they adopted the CMS flag of St George's flag. Those Northerners mostly became Christians and that is the separation under God!

[@StGammon77]

That's what maori are like tho, don't mirror onto us the former Chiefs told it like it was in the 1860 Kohimarama Conference records read them!

[@heminuiraho9990]

treaty principles bill to interpret the Maori text of the treaty, with no Maori included in helping to draft it...seems legit. Like designs for a nuclear bomb designed by a pastry chef!

[@StGammon77]

As David pointed out Maori are the ones who have been changing the Treaty and sdding/deleting mis interpreting for 40 years without a fkn opinion from NZdrs! What's wrong with you can't you see what they have done and the hellish result?!

[@g.m.k.t7344]

I love that David Seymour is apparently a Te Reo Māori expert now and has the “correct” interpretation of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. He obviously has no cultural understanding of the meaning of the words or comprehension skills in reading, writing or speaking Te Reo Māori to understand its text in relation to the Treaty of Waitangi. His views on the both documents are heavily influenced through colonialism, western views and bias perspectives. His narrative is divisive, racist and disgusting. He’s pushing an agenda of assimilation which Māori have been fighting for a very long time. Btw, this is written in English so the people that support him can understand better. As apparently that is the only language y’all know, ka aroha ki a koutou ngā kuaretanga 😉 We can’t be equal if the playing field hasn’t been equal for over 100 years with the amount of historic and systemic racism that has happened. Māori lands were taken, Māori traditional medicinal practices banned, Māori were sent to native schools where they were beaten streamed into labouring jobs and taught to bow to white women. There are still kaumātua alive that lived through this. You can’t talk about equality if the starting line is unequal to begin with. For someone that wanted to discuss Māori issues. He clearly doesn’t want to do that with Māori or he would have gone to the Hui ā motu and Rātana.

[@neilstuarr2278]

No solution in your comment , just a speil of wrongs that even whites put up with?? Offer solutions if you actually care about it

[@Thewandereringanzac]

He doesn’t understand te tiriti at all. Or he does, and hates what it says because he know it gives Maori tino rangatiratanga and the government a governor an that’s it. What people forget is that we’ve been forced into a white mans system, a white mans world. And many of us haven’t thrived in it. If the shoe was on the other foot, white oriole would’ve probably feared better than we have in their system. We need to take back our power, our sovereignty and reaffirm and reassert it by creating our own parliament. That’s what they’re trying to do I heard whispers of it. It will be a govt for all people, it’ll just be our people leading the way with tangata tiriti on board the waka. We can leave thr w.h.o, the UN, and all these other bullshit organisations and become a self sustainable sovereign nation. How does that sound? 😊

[@chrisnipper9163]

I don’t agree with either of you. You can keep looking back or forward. The chinese were discriminated against. I know a dutch women up north who was married to a to an iwi member up North Her Maori work mates would not talk to her. Until they found out who she was married to. I have a friend who looks chinese and was told she was not a proper maori. I think you guys need to. Get off you high horse and realise you are not the only people with historical grievances. My mother a Japanese prisoner of war has had to let it go. Her son has worked for a Japanese company for over 30 years. I would agree even in the 80s things were wrong. Maori jokes were racist. And put Maori down not perfect but a lot of progress made since then. What will you take back. You want 100s of iwi chiefs?

[@LUAPIGNAR]

​@@chrisnipper9163you best get back on your hoiho ehoa, the discrimination of Maori is still happening today. Read comments from this forum, its all white privilege, racist, discrimination. Get over yourselves!

[@Thewandereringanzac]

@@chrisnipper9163 it’s not about historical grievances bro. It’s about what te tiriti says. And it says Maori have sovereignty over themselves. The UN and the WHO etc want to get rid of this because it flys in the face of what they’re trying to get us to do. Even look at the document he whakaputanga. It creates a sovereign nation for New Zealanders that exists alongside the authority of the king. It makes each one of us a sovereign being under God. Not that we needed that to get that, but it just reaffirms it in a Declaration of Independence. My main gripe is that this govt is illegal under te tiriti and they have sold out to global powers. I want a govt that will take care of our affairs at home first and turn us into a self sustainable sovereign nation. Both Te Tiriti and He Whakaputanga give us that opportunity.

[@tongacharlie2821]

why all these years act party leader decided to stirr the pot digging up past history ask ds who drafted this treaty of waitangi from begining ?

[@wuattwhanau5794]

Sadly this govt is backed by private investors - they will be erroding pakeha rights as we as Māori have pre - existing rights.

[@markturner2971]

Maori ceded sovereignty, the crown was given absolute authority. You ignore the writings of your own past leaders, and have woven a new history into New Zealand 🇳🇿 that is not true. Treaty breaches? What about the 1000 complaints laid against maoris ripping of settlers in the NSW court, that the Waitangi tribunal don't want a bar of. Biased, equals not fit for purpose.

[@josriley5280]

The majority voted to redefined this treaty and the Govt can't go back on it's word.

[@ajk4842]

Act got about 9% of the vote?

[@StGammon77]

​@@ajk4842maoris got 2.5% lol

[@ajk4842]

@@StGammon77 I actually voted National. But 9% is still not the majority voting for treaty reform. National didn't campaign on a treaty referendum.

[@resourcerods]

the treaty was signed by maori and the british crown, no one but those two parties can change it