Long Guns, Canoe Guns&Testing the Wax Slug 12 GA Load

[@IIDASHII]

Hi Dave, I think the folks talking about molding the slug outside the shell are on to something. When you layer the wax, you are trying to get two different densities of material to "weld" together, since the wax going in is at a different temperature than the wax that is already there. That never creates a strong bond with any material. I think you may experience better results if you use a pipe to mold the slug and are able to heat the whole thing up to get the wax melted throughout.

[@mikerobinson3672]

Whenever I have made wax slugs I cut the top off and dump the shot out into a pain. I then melt wax in with the shot and pour it back in using the origional wade. I have been very successful with this.

[@MrBillTroop73]

Dave, you're a good man, especially putting up with some folks, and you keep coming back with more great ideas and videos. Thumb's Up!

[@EdwinDueck]

I saw one video where they did a wax load and many results where the same as yours, but then they mixed the shot with the wax first and loaded the shell. The result was different, this time it worked more like a slug.

[@jeffwelker3040]

With all the different loads you’ve tried how has the inside of the shotgun barrel stood up

[@TheGunnut95]

when you melted the wax over the shot, cold shot cooled the wax down before it could reach the bottom

[@mikem9023]

My friend,,isn't that asking for it by holding that flame over pyrodex? Mike

[@deedubbs4412]

Was it the civil or revolutionary war when lead ran scarce and they used wax for rounds?

[@ringokidd387]

Bear in mind it's 18 and 1/2 in. whether you buy it or do it yourself

[@MTNMANTIM]

I love the fact that your always experimenting to see what works. Thanks for sharing all your trials and tribulations !!! Tim

[@neolexington]

You watch iraqveteran8888 too? This truly is a small world. We appreciate these videos Dave!!

[@RobSmith123456]

Why not use the plastic part of an empty hull as a mold then load the completed "slug" ?

[@SurvivalHunter88]

The wax and shot need to be mixed together and poured together.The wax slug make's a great improvised devastateing defense round but I wouldn't suggest it for hunting maybe if it's the only round you have left and no way of makeing another one at the time.Like I told my buddy when he asked me about them (go's in like quarter..comes out like watermelon) for hunting purposes there's too much chance of ruining some meat and when comes too mine and my family's survival I wan't all the meat I can get

[@fumasterchu12]

Great video once again Dave. Love this series you've got going, keep em coming brother. You are the man when it comes to this "wilderness" training. Thanks for the ideas. God bless.

[@therealdestructicus]

i love dual survival, and i know you did one in the pacific rain forest, what would you say to a 20" coach gun for those areas, compared to you standard length 26-28" barrel?

[@MegaWhiteboy1488]

i finde by melting the wax in a pot then adding the bbs to the wax then pouring the mix in to the shell works best for waxshells

[@bukmast3r]

@gqixkaes is right and plus it wont work b/c the wax has to be the consistancy of water in order to make the slug stay together.

[@1corinthians441]

Dave if you want the ATF regulations it is under 26 USC 5845.

[@Jrsdrums]

Dave, I'm loving this series! Keep it up!

[@MrBuzz4401]

bb shot is too big. With the amount of force,and the small amount of wax holding the larger bb's together, it will break apart becoming what you experienced. Try it with small shot 7,8,9... mix it in a warm plate then add it to the shotshell. My bet is it will be more of what you are trying for. You still might and should experience a small amount of shot escape from the edge where the wax is thinner.

[@karse132]

I really lika how you show failures, that's how one really learn. Smaller pellets, some form of container for them and poured wax instead of dripping will improve results. Paraffin wax or some other hard glue will also help.

[@snowboardking2345]

wrong any shotgun can be cut down it just cant be under the length of around 18.5" barrel thats it

[@BLACKIETHOMAS]

Hey hers a load for ya dave..take large BB' size shot for fishing..the kind ya crimp on..clamp onto steel fishing leader..small space between each..coil into 12 ga shell..acks like chain shot out of a cannon..i watched my father use it on big wold boars..slices in..you can slide you hand in the hole!..looks lieka chain saw plunged straight iin..great for a quick bleedout on big mean game

[@BLACKIETHOMAS]

dave i did experaments with a trade gun..i found if you took a dowel slightly under bore size..wrapped heavy paper( like grocery bag) X2 wraps around it and made a shot cup...slide into your shell...pour in shot and then seal top with wax it will fly like you want..the problem with the way slug is the shot of firing breaks apart back of slug and thus it fails,,the heavy paper cup will prevent this..plus on impact..boom..like shooting point blank..safe journeys

[@watchingu33]

Loving the vids... my thought was "How about using Pine Pitch instead of wax?" it's very common man available! Thanks for the vids.

[@recycler4570]

I did some experimenting with wax loads a long time ago, I found that modeling wax which is less brittle when cold works best and heating the shot in with the wax works best making a more solid projectile.

[@Robert31352]

Dave I like the way you are thinking out of the box. It makes us all a little more creative. I think If I were to want to shoot a slug type round, I would just go ahead and load up a round ball. It just turns the H&R into a smooth bore, which was very common in the longhunter days.

[@Woodenarrows]

Dave, this was a very interesting video. I especially appreciated the interesting information on the long gun vs canoe guns at the beginning. I was going to ask if a person open a factory made birdshot shell (7 ½ or 8) and wax it to make a field made slug but I guess it’s a mute point now? And I assume we’re still using High Brass shells for all these various loads?

[@EdwinDueck]

I saw one video where they did a wax load and many results where the same as yours, but then they mixed the shot with the wax first and loaded the shell. The result was different, this time it worked more like a slug.

[@erogers36]

Thanks Dave I will be trying this with my 16 GA Eric

[@thanson77]

Dave. I appreciate how even though you're probably making plenty of money from DS, and the pathfinder school has to be blowing up, you're still practical about your targets.

[@herrleonhardt7379]

Hey Dave, were is the "o" in "canoe" on your whiteboard? ;-) *joking* interesting vid man... keep on teaching that way!!!

[@LivingHistorySchool]

the long barrels were for the military.....why aren't you using a round ball?

[@johnliss9618]

im guessing its the beeswax..most show the use of crayons, harder denser wax

[@jayoutdoors07m96]

Maybe if you cut the end off of a modern shotgun shell and poured wax into that. With the modern shotcup, it may protect the wax slug better while exiting the barrel. I suspect your wax slug is breaking up when it gets squeezed out of the choke.

[@houseoffire72]

Hey Dave I think I have your solution to the slug not staying together... Try using a thin walled cardboard tube, something like an m-80 tube... If ya cant find one I will mail you one ok... Or you can make one out of paper, woodglue mixed 60/40 with rubbing alcohol. the alcohol makes the glue wetter persay allowing it to saturate the paper to form a more solid wall-make it about 1/16"... make a former out of a dowel... Let me know if this works :) Thanks Dave, Shalom bro

[@kaziklu79]

Instead of wax you can melt some kind of nylon or plastic - it'll hold the bbs tighter.

[@mikegreenawalt4726]

I'm in pa. I always heard shotgun barrel had to be 18 and a half inches . Could be wrong though. Love your videos big fan.

[@ArtistBlade1972]

Dave, it seems the wax is adhering to the plastic wall of the shell and when the propellent fires it tears the bundle apart. If you get the wax to a soft state and mix the BB's in and mold it like putty in your hand then allow it to harden I think it'll hold together. Make it less of a snug fit in the shell with a little wadding on top then a wax plug.

[@larspkc]

take a piece of cloth put the little balls in and tie it off with small cordage then take the shell put a patch in (thich enough so it doesn't burn through) then seal it with wax then put your piece of cloth with the balls on top and then put some more wax on so the piece of cloth with the balls wont fall out Dont mind spelling errors english is not my native language

[@BigDave1125]

Something about the livhter that close to gunpowder and your face made me sqeamish lol. Love your videos.

[@hanbaal]

@Prepare2Survive Thats brilliant!

[@TheGrayman1234]

This is what I like about Dave. He goes ahead and shows us what happened whether it worked out perfectly or not. Either way it is accurate information that will help you in the end.

[@drackar]

Towards the end you talk about something Mythbusters did. People who listen to shows like mythbusters and consider them to be experts...amuse me. I'm a fan of the show. They do some interesting things. But they are not experts. They do an "experiment" Maybe twice. And then make a "definitive ruling" based on limited results. Often on subjects they freely admit they do not fully understand. Plus the mistakes. Recently they fired a canon ball through multiple houses, while playing on a bomb range

[@forestdavegump]

We measure the amount of shot and then put it in the wax and heat it up and then spoon or pour the shot and wax in the shell and it bonds together great one solid mass of lead and wax. Pour wax over the pellets was not recommend by the old timers that showed us as the wax does not reach the bottom and you get flyers and a less solid slug. We just cook it all in an old soup can and fill up the shells. :) Love this Longhunter stuff keep it up! Dave your our hero....don't tell Cody....lol

[@hanbaal]

Nope, sorry. I just can't see it working. Wax and metal will surely break apart on firing! You'd need some kind of amazingly strong and expensive, industrial glue. I don't use guns much but i do sling rocks a lot. Even from a sling rocks that are more tightly bonded than that sometimes break apart, just from the acceleration. Mabey you could get it to stay a little more together but i wonder if it'd actually be better to spend the time finding solid slugs. That's my 2 cents. Nice test though.

[@disillusions]

@disillusions The dimensions of wilderness candle I have made are with a paper tube about 8" long and a 3" ID (inside diameter). It burns like a big tiki torch for several hours. I was pretty impressed that all that sawdust packed into that tube became completely saturated with wax and basically cooled to form a big brown candle. I think pouring hot wax into a shell like that will work better to fuse the shot together, but again, I would try to seal the patch with a tad bit of wax first.

[@disillusions]

@VaperSteve1975 I have played around with wax in trying to make a wilderness candle. You can stuff a paper tube full of sawdust and pour really hot wax into it and after it cools it will be a rock solid mass with the sawdust completely saturated. But I found that you have to seal the bottom by pouring a bit of wax in first and letting it cool, or otherwise the wax will start to seep out around the bottom edges (unless it is a metal container and not paper tube with cardboard taped to bottom).

[@FRUNTCASTER]

Hey brother. . . Ya might find some good, pure clay -- and make small marble sized balls (or barrel shaped/bullet shaped) and fire them in/by the fire. Fired clay is pretty hard stuff -- then set the clay "slug" with your wax in the case. If the clay ball stayed together to target, it would do plenty of soft tissue damage on critters. You might try an ash binder, but I'd avoid sand because of it's abrasive qualities.

[@Maddawwg45]

i think the problem is dave the bees wax is way to soft and the wax is simply melting before it makes it to the target only suggestion i can say is u might try less powder and or try freezing the wax after u poured it into like vapor steve suggested either way i think your gonna be limited to about 10 yards or less with that load holding together dont know for sure just my theory

[@tblbaby]

I don't think there is any way any wax could hold together with the heat generated in shooting. I woulda should that before it was kinda proven too, lol, though you gotta love hind sight. They do make bean bag rounds though, so it should be possible to hold something together, though I'm sure the bean bag isn't filled with anything heavy as lead. See if you can find ya some Kevlar growin out there & you can make a body proof bullet bag hehehe, kind of a reverse on the vest thing, see? hehehe

[@learningcenter4u]

This is the law for sawed off shotgun in IN. Doing some research, it does not matter if you do it yourself or not. IC 35-47-1-10 "Sawed-off shotgun" Sec. 10. "Sawed-off shotgun" means: (1) a shotgun having one (1) or more barrels less than eighteen (18) inches in length; and (2) any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration,modification, or otherwise) if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.

[@dtownknives]

Maybe if you build a small fire and melt the wax in a metal cup then pour it instead of drip it it might create a better seal. It seems to me like small drips would solidify too fast and not bond to the shot too well. Either that or the force and heat of the powder is melting/breaking the wax apart before it leaves the barrel. Either way good entertaining video, i like this series.

[@survivordude941]

the official ruling on length of shotguns is no less than an 18in barrel from breech to end of the barrel and the overall length of 26inches from the end of the barrel to the end of the stock If you do cut off your 26in or so barrel yourself you have to register your "sawed-off" shotgun with your local sheriff office and your local police if you live in the city limits and register it with the BATFE as a sawed off shotgun

[@Prepare2Survive]

I saw someone shoot an arrow out of a reduced charge .410 shotgun on the Discovery channel. You being the archery and shotgun enthusiast will have a hard time resisting that one. ....be safe Dave

[@dirtdobber1959]

Cutting off the barrel you loose some velocity,after the shot leaves the barrel it starts loosing velocity without the powder burning behind it.Shot gun shell loads before plastic wads had wax coated cork or cardboard wads or heavy felt.The wad helps keep the shot from being flattened when fired causing it to fly out of the pattern.

[@6rasta6bhoy6]

hey dave, i think it would be better if you heat the wax and the shots in a pot. then, you could use one of your empty cases that you've sawn off from your muzzleloader video as a mold, and pour it there first so it sets, then you could just jam the whole "cake" into the open shell when you're all done :)

[@HDoctane]

Hey Dave a another good way is just take a shot shell n your knife and just cut two half circles three the shell case where the ends barely meet so when it goes off it fires the shot the wad and the end of the shell case out in one package works pretty well for improvised slug hope this makes sense keep it up your a genius god bless n god speed

[@a2redneck]

Dave, i am loving this series! Hey, whats your opinion on cylinder chokes? They have no tapering of the muzzle what so ever, therefore wouldn't cylinder bore/choke be the best and safest for 'improvised' rounds? For foster/rifled slugs its always perfered that you shoot them out of a cylinder bore/choke.

[@disillusions]

@VaperSteve1975 This would likely work better in fusing the load together, but it would be best to drip a little wax (at the lower temp) on top of the patch and let that set up before putting the shot in and then pouring the hot molten wax in. This could help prevent molten wax from seeping past the patch and into the powder.

[@shannonbtanner]

I agree with the first comment, when i saw you dripping it I was thinking you needed an old lead melting spoon or small melting cup and pour it in all at once, just make sure you have enough wadding and hold it away from your face LOL, I love your videos Dave you have the best channel on You Tube, keep em coming, I hope to be in your January class, see you soon!

[@kwilham]

well Dave heard your comment about what people were saying about the dime load if you really want to show how well it works buy a whole shoulder and shoot it that is a good chuck of meat and what you would normally be shooting at on the game you are after this is what I do when working up some kind of new load. good luck really enjoy your videos

[@pittfighter]

Good day. I was thinking what about wooden projectile(hard wood or hardend over fire,beacuse you are in woods)sealed with wax. Before the load and after. Something like was the first bullet with a tip-like front size of wooden tip arrow (not a steel ball) for accuracy , and in diameter aproc. to a plastic of a round. Just a idea. Best regards from Europe

[@abclandscapingfx]

There is too much heat and pressure within the barrel, that it is more likely melting the wax instinaneously. As a 3rd year engineering student, looking at the properties of bees wax you will find it has a low melting point. You could try a 2 part expoxy or maybe 2 part JB Weld, knead the 2 parts together and form the slug.

[@SkidinDingo]

i think i know what went wrong. you gotta use the bottom of a monster can or something to melt the wax with the shot in it then you pour that mix of melted wax and shot in the shell because if you just pour the was over the shot while its in the shell then the shot cools and hardens the wax be for it can get to the bottom

[@Prepare2Survive]

For the best of both worlds mossberg makes a 20 inch " Security Vent Rib " barrel for the 5 shot 500 series 12ga pump shotgun that comes with the standard assortment of 3 chokes.

[@dirtdobber1959]

I have an old remington model 11 shotgun with a "poly choke" adjustable choke on it,just twist it in or out goes from full to improved choke. I am going to cut off an H&R single shot at 20 inches and have one put on it.You can still buy them on Gun Broker for about $30-$40.

[@Pilgrim041588]

you should come to big sur, california to see thick country. the manzanita and chaparral grow extremely thick. so thick that crawling on you stomach doesn't work always work, but i still stick with my 34" barrel kentucky rifle. awesome video, im going to get myself one of these shotguns now.

[@survivethat2012]

Dave, The steel BB's are bouncing in the steel barrel. As they go down the barrel the energy transfers between the bb's side to side,and back and forth. This breaks up the wax slug. Plus the weight different between the wax and the steel bb's make them move at different speeds.

[@SilentWolf1966]

Dave i think it would be safe to say you are looking at it as a Blunderbuss. Where they loadwd into it what they had at the time in order to wound or kill your target. Would that work here like using split shots, Sinkers, Pieces of nails or screws, Mabye even small stones or Pebbles as projectiles.

[@rafiki1squashbannana]

dave just a thought of something i'd like to see, i think it'd be realy efective if you try to mould you own led slug (obviusly out of led) i dont know weathere im being stupid, but it's just a thought i had and i cant try these thing's myself because of firearms laws in the uk

[@BornRandy62]

using larger split shot sinkers or slingshot projectiles that are around 25 to 30 calibre would simulate a buckshot load. nine 30 cal projectiles is nothing to sneeze at.

[@Skills2survive]

What about a load for larger game if you dont have slugs or buckshot with you?? Maybe larger sling shot load?? Just curious..... I think another video Dave.... LOL

[@SuperR3volver]

I have a H&R .233, and I was looking on their website at the extra barrels... they have 12 ga barrels ranging from 30, 26 and down to 22 inches... the 22 inch with a modified choke is like 55 dollars plus shipping... I think I just might go for that...

[@firstdarkness1]

hmmm, i wonder if clay would be an option for ammo or shot and clay mix. of course, shoot when dry or else you might make a muddy mess. what do you think dave. just a question since i am not too familiar with black powder rifles.

[@LVPG2010]

I believe the powder burn is melting the wax. If you put a dime in, then the BBs, then wax, the dime will prevent the power burn from melting the wax. We do the same when reloading lead bullets in revolver and rifles. Nice try though. Thanks

[@jnsX2]

@wildernessoutfitters Wouldn't you need a cylinder bore for round ball (i.e. no choke)? I know Lee Precision makes Slug molds. Used some of their other molds with great success. Of course, if I remember, you need specific wads for those.

[@HomeDistiller]

@VaperSteve1975 it would be easier for all the waxed loads, and to cary and heat the wax too you could just leave it in a small tin and melt it on the fire,

[@walleyefishinrod3115]

great vid Dave. I love the single shot. Never thought about muzzle loading. Awesome. How many times can you reload a shell before it stretches out to much. When useing buckshot, How much powder would you use. Great job Dave. Keep up the videos.

[@rockysnorth]

i whent back a ways did not see any comment posted already. iracveteran8888. bary did a wax shell with good out come, but he put his wax and bb's in a pot and pord all at the same time i i recall right. thanks againg from canada

[@UtiliTerran]

I don't have any experience reloading shells like this but it looks dangerous to hold an open flame over a shell pointing up toward you. What is the likelihood of accidental discharge? Great vids, keep them coming.

[@0352USMC1408SAPD]

It's because the wax isn't rifled.... And probably completely breaking up on the exit of the barrel. The wax then ways the shot down an jacks with the flight pattern of the shot... Great video! Very informative.

[@gaelicwinds]

@wildernessoutfitters hey bro i would try melting the wax down in a tin and mix the shot in with it then scoop it in with a spoon or something the ones i have made like that have worked pretty good

[@jtee1894]

Dave, i guess the person who made the statement about the dimes, also would say when pirates shuved what ever they could find on board in a cannon and fired it, it did not kill anybody. good video brother

[@theemperor0]

What you should have done was put the shot and the wax in the same vessel and heat them together than pour it in the shell, that'll allow it to stay together and act as a slug.

[@sbjennings99]

Great Informational video.. Yes, I think if you could melt the wax and mix in the shot it might work better.. How about using a soft to med melted plastic to hold the shot together?

[@RobSmith123456]

Probably easier to find a slightly undersized rock and then add wax to it to make the outside of it the right shape though. Also doesn't use up any of one's precious BB's.

[@percykirby2]

Great Vids Dave, really shows the versatility of a mc shotgun. How about flechettes next Dave. My favorite is junk wire improvised loads. Nasty self-defense load.

[@Zarthalad]

Great video,Dave!!!

[@ellharrep]

I was thinking what if you used a crayon as the wax for the shot because the crayon wax is pretty hard and you can get big hard crayons for kids cheap.

[@Getoutthere247]

Cant wait for the next video. Loving the long hunter series . Keep up the good work brother.

[@wydogtalker]

as always great videos! very thought provoking. thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[@Kane856]

Dave, why are you trying to create a slug load from shot instead of loading a cast ball? Apologies if I've missed the reason in an earlier vid :)

[@homeagent]

it can work great but you have to mix the bbs w/ liquified wax then put into the shell. I'm looking for the video i saw.. the guy did it perfect.

[@Atkrdu]

Good videos. How about some videos about tricks & tips for modern guns (at some point, I can see you're on blackpowder stuff at the moment)?

[@andrewsheldonreeves]

@andrewsheldonreeves also the ability of rapid follow up shots on a large animal and no recoil does lend an advantage. But I do agree the 12 gauge is a great option if you want to point and shoot. However if you want to shoot a bird out of the top of the tree at 60 yards I'd reach for my .22 and pull the trigger 3 or 4 times in very rapid fire to bring a large bird down.

[@saintrojo]

Don't think this fits the long gun theme, but I remember reading in Backwoodsman magazine years back a guy used liquid glass(bartop) to seal his shells. Have you tried a pumpkin ball yet? Track of the wolf sells I think it's .712 mold for the 12ga.. If the HR can take a deer slug a pumpkin ball should be safe.

[@ohioriverfisherman94]

i have a full choke 20 gauge and have shot slugs threw it for years and have never had a problem. maybe its diffrent with a 12 tho

[@VaperSteve1975]

Your mistake with the wax load was this: You can't drip the wax in. It must be melted in a container and poured in to achieve the temperature necessary to keep it liquid long enough to fully encase all of the shot. Give it a try. I guarantee it will work better this way!

[@cykovisuals]

Why not try melted plastic instead of wax? The wax can't hold the shot together at that velocity. Plastic would solidify and would most likely work. It would have to be the type of plastic used in injection molds, not hard plastics, give it a try!