DCS World - MiG-15 vs F-84 Thunderjet - Dogfight Over the Iron Curtain, 1953

[@6mtzhp55]

"Hello everyone, this is Showtime112." This and a cup of coffee - my favorite way to start the morning.

[@showtime112]

That sure is nice to hear, thank you!

[@timeandnourishment1961]

Thought for a moment you said the "coolest " rather than the "cruellest " dictator... Great video, thanks!

[@showtime112]

In fact, the YT automatic generated subtitles also seemed to think that's what I said 😁 But of course, the guy was the exact opposite of cool. Thanks for the comment!

[@ashtonbailey3970]

Yep.. no one match the Barbican slaughter of innocent people by USA, Israeli, India & EU!!!

[@robbielloyd5767]

Exactly what I thought

[@kentwilliams4152]

Yup - me too.

[@damien5748]

@@showtime112 yep..in some ways (maybe even a lot of ways) he was worse than Hitler to his own people .

[@flankerpraha]

This particular incident is know as the "battle over Merklín", which is a small town situated in Bohemian Forest about 30 km from the nearest border line. All the archived documents released after the velvet revolution support the claim those were Americans who violated czechoslovakian air space, not the other way around. Lt. Šrámek who was the winner of the day acted according to his duty. The number of air space violation also significantly decreased after this incident. I would also make a notice. S-199 was not a "copy of Bf-109". those were S-99. After the war there were many spare parts of Bf-109 versions G and K on the czechoslovak territory, incl. BD-605 engines. The planes manufactured from them were marked as Avia C-10 and later renamed to Avia S-99. Though just before the war there was a fire in the storehouse of the engines, which cause was not solved till this day (whether itm was a coincidence, sabotage or something else) and which destroyed most of them. So as the surrogate temporfary solution it was decided to adapt the plane for Jumo 211 from He 111, of which big amount was also available. Therefore S-199 is an (not very succesful, but temporary) adaptation of Bf-109 for Jumo 211 similarly as Ha 1112 is an adaptation od Bf 109 for Hispano-Suiza or Merlin engines.

[@showtime112]

Thanks for adding details!

[@ПавелЧервев-я9о]

В последствии С 199 передали изралитянам.

[@smellyfella5077]

I love these little forgotten nuggets of history that you bring to life

[@showtime112]

Thanks! I'm also very pleased when I run into a story of this type that is doable in DCS.

[@MatzeB111]

I love this game ... the graphics are just terrific!

[@showtime112]

Oh yeah, 2.7 was such an improvement.

[@FlightSimHistorian]

Another incident I knew little about beforehand. Excellent work bringing it to your viewers' attention, Showtime!

[@showtime112]

Thank you very much! It was a lot of fun doing it.

[@ronaldwatson1951]

Loved the video, didn't care for the outcome, but that's history. Great reenactment

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the comment. The outcome is what it is, several factors just aligned there.

[@ronaldwatson1951]

@@showtime112 Don't rub it in, you're Right.

[@showtime112]

@@ronaldwatson1951 OK, sorry. I'll stop :)

[@LockOnNow]

It are those small incidents not so well known to the general public which are at times real gems 💎 Watching a Video with Historical content from Showtime112 is like going to a cinema theatre 🎭 watching a great movie 🎥 getting some popcorn 🍿 having a seat lean back and enjoy the show. 😉

[@showtime112]

Wow, thanks! I'm actually going for that kind of a feel but not for purely entertainment purposes. I always believed that history is only boring if presented in a boring way (which can really be said for anything else)

[@xXrandomryzeXx]

Im going on a streak watching your videos haha. Really enjoying myself here

[@showtime112]

So glad to hear that!

[@ErikDvorak]

Thanks for covering and re-enacting this incident. Noteworthy is also the whole scope of situation that led to it - post ww2 years, where Czechoslovak airforce had piston powered planes (lavochkins, avia copies of 109s etc as you mentioned), which allowed western incursions deep into the airspace on regular basis, sometimes as bold as flybys over the Prague, surrounding military bases, recon/spy flights, etc. I'm sure it's easy to imagine how frustrating and even demoralizing this was being unable to intercept those. However the tables turned after receiving first batches of soviet jets like mig15 and yak23. I'm convinced from Mr. Šrámek's accounts that he fired the warning volley well within Czechoslovak airspace and then in the following pursuit they got very close to the border. The (over)killshot was from the NS-37 cannon (2 rounds fired) and I believe it happened around or even beyond the border itself. The heavily smoking F-84 kept flying its vector towards German inland with 10m/s descent and crashed well behind the border. Post 89 declassification of German intelligence reports shown that both F84s were well within Czechoslovak airspace when they got into trouble and pilots reacted according to that knowledge (i.e. heading straight back towards the border pronto).

[@showtime112]

Thank you for watching and commenting! I read in an article that F-84s would often fly a straight line 'along' the border. Since no border is a straight line, this would often mean crossing into Czechoslovakian airspace. This could have happened here.

[@ANTONMOKOS]

​@@showtime112 No, they were simply recon planes, which just tested Czechoslovak reactions. One thing, the USA doesn´t have a border with Czechoslovakia, true? So why they strayed over this place? This was just aggression and provocation. It's the same as the Cuban crisis, every time when is someone felt in danger, they defend themselves. Just as you were worried about your safety at the time, so Czechoslovakia was worried about its own. Spy and reconnaissance missions were always during the Cold War, only in case of revelation were used innocent cover stories, invented by CIA. Try watch this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJOuk39jl8ikac0

[@showtime112]

@@ANTONMOKOS I know that some people in Czechoslovakia were afraid back then. But just think, they were occupied by a country headed by Stalin! So basically, you have a brain tumor but you are afraid of getting a cold instead! Many citizens of Western Europe were more than happy to stay on the west side of the Iron Curtain. With the benefit of hindsight, that's really obvious.

[@ANTONMOKOS]

​@@showtime112 Yes, basically it's true. Freedom is the best thing. In communism there were a lot of different peoples, few of which had some benefits - they were happy. Some people were restricted and persecuted by the regime. But common people in that's time had bigger certainty, everyone had a job, everyone got a flat for living. So this is the reason why some older people sometimes defend communism - they simply had life certainty there. Yes, were there bad things like lack of goods, poor choice, inability to travel and trade freely with the west. But nowadays you can ease lost a job, then lost a house, and become homeless. I think ordinary people would not have enemies in another country if there were no politicians.

[@MrFusselig]

@@ANTONMOKOS It might be true. The Czechoslovaks were still very disappointed at that time of the Allies, as they had not forgotten how their country was sacrifiesed to the Germans in the Munich Agreement from 1938, so they had reason to not trust the NATO. However, the Czechoslovaks lost their independence only 3 years after the war again, when the communists took over with the 1948 coup d'état forcing the National Party ČSNS with Edvard Beneš to resign. So in 1953, the sovereignty of Czechoslovakia didn't really existed anymore and the Prague Spring would not have happened, if the Czechoslovaks would have been so happy with the Soviets. Hard to say about the motivations.

[@Yosemite-George-61]

Hello Showtime 112 this is "Lazy Dog Five Seven"... The wife is in the shower, I'm in my office puffing a pipe and drinking coffe at 10 am... Great video, great images. The first kit my mom bougt me was one of the Czech Mig... exactly like the one on the vid. Nostalgia...

[@showtime112]

Hello! I'm glad you like this video. As for the MiG, it has the exact correct skin of Šramek's airplane. Except that the kill star is already painted :) I tried to remove it but GIMP wouldn't open the file for some reason.....

[@guydespatie6881]

Another excellent video ! Showtime 112 you rock !

[@showtime112]

Thanks! It's good to have such great viewers 😁

[@gorka7824]

Very interesting event. I didn't know about it either

[@Skybolter]

Somehow, U.S.A.F. decided to keep it CLASSIFIED.

[@showtime112]

I love those less known events 😉

[@radarcontact1974]

That Thunderjet mod looks neat! Where do i get it? Any link?

[@showtime112]

You can find the link for F-105 and many other mods by VSN on this link: www.lockonforum.de/community/board/10-mods/ Most of them require FC3 but they recently released F-4B/C mod that's fully standalone with a proper clickable cockpit.

[@radarcontact1974]

@@showtime112 Oh! Thank you very much! 😎👍

[@karaskombroturbococo3910]

How can i get the F-84 IA mod? thanx

[@showtime112]

You can find the link on this forum: www.lockonforum.de/community/board/10-mods/ There are other mods as well. They mostly borrow cockpits from FC3 modules.

[@pumelo1]

The US kept violating the Czechoslovak state border, first with jetplanes, then with helicopters, and they took pictures and monitored listening towers. After this incident, when they thought they had "the upper hand", they did not know that we had received a Mig-15 and miscalculated a lot. It was "aggression" from the US. With my here in the 80/90s I witnessed when a US helicopter was directly above my head. I served in basic military service at the time at the Čerchov tower. The same thing happened on the other towers, you can look at photos of these helicopters on German internet sites, when they were several kilometers deep in our territory, we had many military facilities here! The Czechoslovak army never carried out this type of survey on German territory! It only happened from the Budejovice airport in the Czechchoslovak Republic that in the 1980s, when Mig-23MF/ML pilots turned towards Moravia border, they flew over the Austrian border "in the dark" This is only 100% trouth!

[@19Koty96]

It would seem the battle was initiated over Merklín, but the pursuit was continued even when the lead F-84 escaped over the border into BRD.

[@showtime112]

That seems quite probable.

[@zepter00]

They vilolated their air space.. it was time for punishment.

[@andrygugli1928]

Dont want the time dont do the crime. If you shoot at me, bit miss the shot and run away dont expect me not to chase you

[@gxlxn]

Crazy fact is that this happened in the middle of Europe. Even Vienna is situated more eastern.

[@showtime112]

Well, those were the most intensive years of the Cold War. West Germany didn't even have its own Air Force yet as a result of WWII.

[@welshpete12]

I read a report that of the tactics used by the US Airforce in Germany at that time . Their all weather capability was superior to the Soviet Block. So they would intentionally fly close to the border in bad weather . Forcing the Soviets to take off to defend their air space . This causing losses on the Russian side when attempting to land .

[@showtime112]

Interesting, I wonder how many of them crashed in such situations.

[@haedubabaganush]

@@showtime112 This is still a problem with the modern Russian(Soviet) airforce. While they now have a number of all weather interceptors, the reduced flight times of their crews have impacted safety. Of course they don't release numbers like we do in the west, but info such as flight hours per month...with some squadrons averaging 3 hours of flight time per month, have been made public. As a former military pilot of high speed jets, you cannot keep competency with so few hours.

[@showtime112]

@@haedubabaganush That is so true even for far less complicated professions. But this is one where lack of experience can kill you (and /or someone else).

[@pavelneuzil6457]

You have good fantasy, There were no soviet pilots in Czechoslovakia that time.

[@Izavos]

Good job Pilot. The Game in addition to these challenges has campaign missions in Korea. Patrols attacks on surface and naval targets?

[@kentwilliams4152]

Well - I could be wrong, in combat flight sims the F-84 was quite a bit more maneuverable than the Mig 15.

[@showtime112]

Maybe in some part of the performance envelope but generally, it was very much inferior and only able to win against the MiG under very favorable conditions.

[@eugeneoreilly9356]

The F84 was easy pickings for a MIG 15.The F86 was closer on performance.

[@robertopacilli3104]

Hello Showtime 112 what a strange story, an american jet fighter downed by enemy fighter, I m very curious about political conseguences ... now I have to do some historical research....Anyway very interesting.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the comment! I'm not sure about political consequences but I think USAF was a bit more restrained when flying close to the border.

[@Anarchy_420]

During the Korean War there were unconventional air conflicts, U.S. Prop Planes shot down MIG's on a couple occasions-- The Hawker Sea Fury shot down a MIG-15 and The AU4 Corsair also shot down a MIG-15! doesn't stop there! Vietnam-- A-1 Skyraider shoots down MIG-17 I believe on two separate occasions!! Request Fly Either-- Hawker Hurricane, Super Tucano, P-47, P-51, or Spitfire! Against The MIG-15!!👍

[@showtime112]

Of all these, only the Mustang is available in DCS and historically correct to fly against MiG-15. I seem to remember than a Mustang even claimed a MiG-15 but I can't find it now. If I find it, that might make an interesting video.

[@Anarchy_420]

@@showtime112 that'd be cool however I'm not quite sure as to what you mean the P-51 is the only one in DCS lol The Hawker Hurricane, Super Tucano, P-47, and the Spitfire are all available lol well the Super Tucano is a relatively newer mod it's all available....?

[@Anarchy_420]

@@showtime112 oh lmao my bad that's the only one that's historically correct🙃

[@Anarchy_420]

@@showtime112 so it has to be 100% historic?? I don't think the fans would mind a substitute especially considering the Prop Plane's that really down MIG-15's simply do not exist in DCS🙁 At any rate it'd be absolutely epic if you used the P-51 as it's one of the plane's I suggested😁👍 Sooo lol I'm going to help look for that, I kno P-51's had a few run ins with MIG-15's however I think those ended either badly for the Mustang or they were able to escape... idk I'm doing a bit of research now!✌

[@Anarchy_420]

@@showtime112 what about my other random request?? I believe you said you were thinking about doing random fights although it's not really your thing... Certainly wouldn't hurt, infact I'm rather confident fans would love it. If I'm wrong you could just stop and never do it again🙃 Really excited to see fights such as Rafale VS Gripen, SU-30MKI VS SU-33, and F-35 VS SU-35! Just a few examples lol I won't be a pest by sending them all again you get the idea😁✌

[@estellemelodimitchell8259]

When I saw only a part of the title, I thought this was about the Korean War. Battle of the MIG Valley.

[@showtime112]

Wasn't too far from it. The war in Kora was still going on and the American pilot had participated in it.

[@pontiacGXPfan]

The Blunderjet never stood a chance

[@showtime112]

Generally, the F-84 would need to be in a very favorable starting position to win here.

[@pumelo1]

Otherwise, I recommend making a video about SR-71 with Mig-23ML from České Budějovice. Just type "jak bača málem sestřelil SR-71".....Unfortunately, the video is in Czech, the articles can be put into a translator. The maneuver took place as a head-on "approach" This pilot, while approaching at an altitude of 20 kilometers, had an SR-71 intercepted at an altitude of 25 km and the object "Lock" and missiles "HOT" The ground control center excitedly shouted "don't shoot, don't shoot" That's in the video too! Mig-23ML armament was 4 R-60 on 2 under hull pylons and 2 R-23/24R" Vympel " The well-known incident with one damaged SR-71 engine and accompanied by a Saab-37 Viggen airplane over the Baltic Sea and one the Mig-31 close to SR-71 in the Far East over ocean , which is "world famous" is not the only one incident in Europe !!! 99,9% of US does not know about this pilot at all about this incident! I am from Czech.😉

[@showtime112]

That's interesting and could be potentially used for a future video (once a proper MiG-23 is released). Do you have the exact link to i?

[@pumelo1]

New information. The pilot who flew with him in Squadron No. 2 says this "SR 71 flew alternately one day along the Czechoslovak border down to Turkey and the next day along the border of the GDR and Poland. But the truth is that 5 minutes before we all went to the first hive (there was a Mig-23 with only 2 rockets to go up) and started disarming. Always around 19 that hour. "Bača" and I were on the second flight."It was necessary to be able to fly up to altitude of 20 km to "ZACHVAT" thus probably R-23/24R due to the speed of the flying target and the range of the missile!

[@pumelo1]

I sent an email to your address

[@ulisesvelez5846]

the f-84 vsig-15. this very rare doghfight in eastern europe.

[@andywells397]

Excellent

[@showtime112]

Thanks!

[@MisteriosGloriosos922]

Amazing!!!

[@showtime112]

Thanks!

[@xiaolianglu9090]

What's the difference between MIG15S and MIG15BIS ? Thanks

[@showtime112]

I'm not familiar with the S variant. Czechoslovakia designated models built under license as S-102 and S-103. But generally 'bis' had an improved engine compared to earlier versions.

[@davidca96]

The Warsaw Pact had a big advantage during this time air to air, the F-84 was garbage and totally inferior to the MiG's. This of course didnt last long, during those days fighter technology was moving so rapidly it was pretty crazy.

[@showtime112]

Generally, it's impossible to immediately upgrade all of your units to the latest model. That's why sometimes, there's an imbalance. Who knows what would happen today in a major war, with fourth and fifth gen going against each other.

[@ulisesvelez5846]

in the early cold war age.

[@IncoreFirearms]

Interesting. I wonder, how he was met on the ground after such a score.

[@showtime112]

Not much detail about that. But I'm sure he did get a 'special' status of some kind.

[@ErikDvorak]

I would imagine the reception from fellow pilots and aircraft maintenance/support crews was likely positive initially, but the regime itself had a tendency to censor and hide any kind of information that could give the west ANY insight on absolutely anything. Mr. Šrámek himself didn't want to talk about this mission for a very long time, mostly because until 89 it was all hush-hush and after the iron curtain fell, he was even shamed on few occasions by some higher-ups for shooting down now-allied airman. Sounds quite ridiculous, doesn't it? But he opened up about it all later on and provided interviews and his recollections of the whole incident.

[@showtime112]

@@ErikDvorak Thank you for contributing! It seems to me that treatment of Šramek by both regimes is 'unusual', to put it diplomatically. The only pilot in an air force who scores a kill is usually revered (which he wasn't due to the usual communist paranoia). And blaming him for shooting down an ally 40 years before they became allies is even more rediculous 😁

[@shahidmahmood6796]

PAF pilot MM Aalam killed 5 hunter jets with in 2 miniuts. In war of 1965.please make a video on this gloury

[@showtime112]

That would be interesting but we don't have Hunters in DCS yet. There's some indication it is being developed but no real info yet.

[@samdigiorgio4412]

Oh , I believe the communist check pilot . . . Oh yes , and Al Capone was a real nice guy , too !!

[@igorbivol6306]

Посчитайте еще раз.

[@kentwilliams4152]

Dang! They (the Migs) were obviously over West German territory. No real skill needed by the Mig Pilot since the F-84 was not evading him. In other words it was a “bogus” shoot down with no ACM. Also, I could be wrong, but as I recall the F-84 was quite a bit more maneuverable than the Mig, both by design and because the F-84 was at a slower air speed.

[@NotAnAngryLesbian]

Look up the fight between several Migs and an F-84. The F-84 did well because the Migs gunsight was inferior and they couldnt get a hit on the F-84. Better plane, worse gunsight.

[@montys420-]

This would of been a very 1 sided match up if the west germans didn't already know how to exploit the best from there jets! I'm surprised that the west Germans didn't have F86 by this time and I can't believe he didn't drop fuel tanks and start maneuvers after the 1st shots!! Wtf??

[@showtime112]

Actually, at that time Germans didn't have an air force at all. Luftwaffe was only reactivated in 1955. This is USAF's F-84.

[@montys420-]

@@showtime112 I realised this watching I prolly should of edited but the u.s airforce pretty much funded and gave all these jets to the luftwaffe when it reformed.

[@willc1294]

lol 9:30 yank lawndart

[@MarkoDanojevic]

Bro, do some yugo stuff please :)))

[@showtime112]

Maybe someday. I find it easier to do things where I can be objective more easily.

[@davegeisler7802]

The F84 Thunderjet was cannon fodder for the Mig 😂😂😂🤣🤣

[@mauriceouellette7514]

Bonjour a tous du Canada First victims in war time the truth

[@showtime112]

Bonjour Canada, thank you for your comment!

[@Simo-nk1oq]

Some "dogfight". smmfh

[@pavelneuzil6457]

That is amazing, full of lies. US F-84 were that time routinely flying into Czechoslovakia airspace and this was the last time they have done it. It it pure lie that F-84 were scrambling MIG 15, it was exactly opposite.

[@showtime112]

And you know that because.....? Btw, how did that communism work for you Czechs?

[@pavelneuzil6457]

@@showtime112 Learn something about history and you will also know it. USA pilots were routinely violating Czechoslovak (and others) airspace as a game as they knew that Czechoslovak pilots in their outdated piston planes cannot chase them. 2 and 2 MIG 15 were sent to either force those F-84 to land or to shoot them. One of them safely landed in Czechoslovakia, the other one was shot down. BTW the shot down pilot came later to Czech Republic and he met the Czech guy who shot him down. Your stupid comment about communism has nothing to do with this, so take a chill pill.

[@EastGames-uy6mc]

First!

[@showtime112]

I was wondering where you've been recently :)

[@charlesbukowski9836]

why you flyin on the side of evil... lol

[@showtime112]

Because the other side's aircraft is a mod with a borrowed cockpit :) I'm reenacting historic events, I'm basically an actor here.

[@ANTONMOKOS]

Who is evil? MIGs pilots which were flying over Czechoslovakia and were defending their borders or USAF pilots, 1000 miles away from the USA border on recon mission? Bukowski - it is a Polish name I think, or? Then, are you from an evil country too? So, I think the word "evil" is relative.

[@charlesbukowski9836]

@@ANTONMOKOS LOL first of all ... it was a joke... second, you calling Poland evil?

[@ANTONMOKOS]

@@charlesbukowski9836 1. Ok, bro 2. Poland was from east block too. So its just similar. I dont have nothing bad against any country.

[@charlesbukowski9836]

@@ANTONMOKOS you're crazy 😂

[@janpavlicek324]

Ty nase znaky mu ale slusi!

[@andrewmorke]

You find such interesting historical incidents!

[@showtime112]

It's a lot of work, believe me 😁

[@fretlessed25]

Thanks. Interesting bit of history I never heard about.

[@showtime112]

Thanks! There were actually quite a lot of incidents in which MiG-15s show down Western aircraft (other than the Korean War). They were mostly recon aircraft flying near the Communist airspace.

[@PappaBear_yt]

Great video as always and a story uknown to me until now. Is that a hint of head-tracking equipment I see? 👍🏻😎😉

[@showtime112]

Thanks! Yup, I've had the tracker for months but only now I'm getting comfortable with it 😊

[@PappaBear_yt]

@@showtime112 Yeah, those things usualy need some fine tuning. If you don't mind me asking, is it a DIY solution or you went for a commercial product?

[@showtime112]

@@PappaBear_yt Commercial. Delanclip, much cheaper than Trackir 😁

[@PappaBear_yt]

@@showtime112 Oh, I've heard of it. Nice-uru! 👍🏻🤓 Me coping with DIY and Opentrack software - not bad thing, but takes time and nerves to configure properly.

[@gustavoarguello5979]

There's a movie about this incident: Vysoká modrá zed (The Great Blue Wall, 1973), directed by Vladimír Cech. In this movie, a pair of Aero L-39 Albatros were disguised as F-84 ThunderJets. Here's a link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d4ekiYula8qUmqc

[@showtime112]

Unfortunately, there's no subtitles but from what I can tell from the description and final scenes, it's not exactly about this incident. Rather, it looks like it's a work of fiction but probably inspired by Šramek's kill.

[@MS-gr2nv]

@@showtime112 its commie propaganda, and only loosely based, but as a kid it was cool to watch jets.

[@DynoosHD]

Could you make your voice a bit louder or the engines quiter please :)

[@showtime112]

I actually noticed that problem but only after I uploaded the video. I've had some problems with video capture software. There was a big update and it probably set something different. Thanks for the suggestion!

[@PappaBear_yt]

@@showtime112 If I may suggest, some software allow for recording of mic and game audio in separate tracks, so you can adjust levels independently when editing. Maybe the software you use has this option?

[@showtime112]

@@PappaBear_yt It does. I tried it but something didn't work well. I will have to do some research 😁

[@PappaBear_yt]

@@showtime112 Understood. Good luck!

[@migueldeniseful]

Today, Russian and American historians such as Cookie Sewall and Diego Zampinni admit that on 10/01/1955, not 10/08, there was the first kill of a jet by another jet. An F-80 Shooting Star patrol engaged three MiG-15s and veteran First Lieutenant Semyon Fyodorovich Khominich spotted 10 F-80F aircraft. Khomonich turned left, leaving the sun behind in combat formation. As a result of their attack, an F-80 was shot down. He opened fire at 800 meters, and stopped firing at less than 200 meters. Coming out of his attack, the lieutenant struggled to gain altitude. Major Bordun with the rest of the team attacked four F-80s that were trying to attack Khominich. The Americans went to the others without success, and finally abandoned the fight..." "...The Russian-built fighter was flown by five Air Force pilots. The F-86A-5 Saber underperformed when compared to the MIG-15. However, the superior training and tactics of the US pilots established a "kill ratio" better than 8:1 over MIG. They putoff all straits wings fighters of korean skies and put all B-29 to work only at nights !! [ kill-ratio also fixed: 1.3 to 1. Reasons: chinese and vietnamese pilots had no trainings like russians 'Honchos'... ] (Photo: National Archives and Records Administration) *www.aviation-history.com/mikoyan/mig15.html*

[@davegeisler7802]

The F84 almost ran out of runway on take off with its powerful J35 Allison engine 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣

[@showtime112]

Yes, I believe it was famous for that.

[@eugeneoreilly9356]

The VK 1 was a RR Nene copy.The Nene used vanes on both sides of the centrifugal impeller thus doubling the volume of intake air to be compressed,whereas contemporaries like the DeHavilland goblin used only a single sided impeller.

[@pavelneuzil6457]

The term "dogfight" is not suitable here, as the incident was too single sided to be called a "dogfight". F84 was not match to MIG 15. So when MIGs caught up the F84, one was shoot down and the second one forced to land. No more incident of that type occurred.

[@showtime112]

Tha term is quite vague and various people have different interpretations what it really means. But one hard fact is that naming YT videos accurately will attract few views. Spicing them up is a necessary evil.

[@pavelneuzil6457]

@@showtime112 Sure, you are right. My only point was that these two planes are very different, F-84 is absolutely no match to Mig 15

[@KapitanPisoar1]

Good kill!

[@nos_leN150]

Cursed

[@haedubabaganush]

As always, a very nicely done video. A bit of history. Of course, this was a time of high tension, shortly after the real Iron Curtain separated east and west Germany. The Nato aircraft of that time were specifically ordered not to cross into de facto Soviet borders...this of course included all the states that the Soviets controlled. A few days after this incident, Soviet mig-15 shot down a RAF bomber on a training mission and prepared to fire on another that were in the Hamburg-Berlin air corridor and again claimed that they had violated Soviet controlled airspace. Subsequent analysis showed that the shell casings from the Migs fell in West German territory, well within the control zone. They also claimed that the bomber returned fire...unlikely as it was unarmed. After the death of Stalin, there were a bunch of border incursions by the Soviets, trying to provoke these types of incidents. In the Czech case, one could ask why a training mission would involve flights at the border when there was a lot of airspace away from the border to practice in as they did other times. The reality is that these were ordered provocations and that had been going on for a while...the difference is that this time the Soviet forces and their puppets were ordered to shoot and of course they knew that the responding aircraft would be no match for their Mig-15's. The upshot of course was that shortly after, the 81 fighter interceptor wing was moved from the UK to Fürstenfeldbruck and 3 Canadian fighter wings with their mk 20 sabre's were deployed in West Germany. The day the 81rst was deployed...no more Mig 15 cross border provocations ...wonder why? My old Wing commander who was a young pilot in one of the Sabre squadrons said that Migs would come up and rush to the border and would turn back as soon as the sabre's took off to intercept. They didn't want to mess with the Sabre's on the west side of the iron curtain, and they knew the Nato aircraft would not pursue them into the east. Close border locations where chosen to give ambiguity and support to the lie about crossing borders.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for that elaborate contribution!

[@flankerpraha]

Sorry but those assuptions are wrong. USAF violated czechoslovak airspace regularly in those times. That was a common practise in those times, remember there were about 150 western airplanes shot down in the soviet air space between the start of the cold war and Powers's U-2 shot down. This particular incident is know as the "battle over Merklín", which is a small town situated in Bohemian Forest about 30 km from the nearest border line. All the archived documents released after the velvet revolution support the claim those were Americans who violated czechoslovakian air space, not the other way around. Lt. Šrámek who was the winner of the day acted according to his duty. The number of air space violation also significantly decreased after this incident.

[@haedubabaganush]

@@flankerpraha Thank you for your comments. The definition of the owner of air space of course is open to question. Like territorial coastal waters, what one country considers it's area of control may not be what other countries may consider it's control. International law of course has helped resolve most of these issues. The chinese of course are a current example of intruders into other's airspace...which they of course consider theirs. If a chinese fighter or bomber is shot down within 12 miles of taiwan...are they in chinese or taiwan airspace?...depends on who you talk to... same type of situation just after wwii. The soviets would never admit to shooting down of aircraft in what we would consider international air space so simpler to claim it was in their airspace. All these types of analyses of history are fraught with biases and must be viewed with a critical eye.

[@norolanddirt]

good video,when to make air to ground attacking mission in Korean war?

[@showtime112]

Thanks for the comment and suggestion. I found a couple of interesting air to ground missions for the Sabre and Mustang. I can't tell you when exactly I'm going to make videos about them but I certainly plan to do so.

[@norolanddirt]

@@showtime112 f84 or f9fand a1,f4u How?

[@showtime112]

@@norolanddirt Those aircraft are either not available in DCS, or are just limited mods such as F-84. Sabre and Mustang exist as full modules and proper videos can be made with them, including cockpit shots.

[@norolanddirt]

@@showtime112 btw,I am so interested in f104,Can u find a battle with the fighter to make a video?

[@showtime112]

@@norolanddirt I made two videos with F-104 and I'm currently working on another one. It will be released in several days.

[@JohnSmith-rr1oc]

What dogfight?..

[@showtime112]

You watch too many GS videos 😁 In reality, air combat is rarely a highly complex series of maneuvers. Usually, other factors decide.

[@davegeisler7802]

That was too easy for the Mig , other than he over shot a couple times because the F 84 is slow. That's a classic example of straight wing vs swept wing technology. The Mig is about 75 mph faster than the F84.

[@showtime112]

Couple of factors here. Obvious superiority of the MiG. Plus belief of the American pilot that the MiG wouldn't really open fire.

[@IDiggSocialMedia]

Like I said before, a jet dogfight seems not complete without a MiG involved!

[@showtime112]

They are more likely than not to have been involved :)

[@tomk3732]

Good job! I believe Czech version. US before flown over the country like it was part of West German. They finally got a rude surprise when Czechs fought back. They tried to escape home and hence crashed in West Germany. Also declassified German/ Czech accounts confirm this.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for commenting!

[@TheIceman567]

Yeah but the USA had the last laugh, there isn’t any Czechoslovakia any more 🤷‍♂️

[@pavelneuzil6457]

@@TheIceman567 huh?

[@onkelmicke9670]

What a great idea to use F-84's for interceptors...

[@showtime112]

Well, that's what they had. Not even the richest nations can afford to update all of their units to the latest standard every couple of years.

[@lebronyeimsv3974]

2:46 "One of the coolest dictators" LMAO

[@showtime112]

Cruelest. I really need to edit that English subtitle :)

[@lebronyeimsv3974]

@@showtime112 Anyways amazing job dude 7u7

[@pmpcpmpc4737]

Sadly, the Czechoslovak Air Force here attacked someone who wasn't in fact their enemy while acting as a puppet of a country that became their enemy.

[@PappaBear_yt]

Yeah, those German pilots Warren Brown and Donald Smith. 😁😎😊

[@showtime112]

It's a very common thing throughout the history, people fighting for a side that wasn't necessarily their first choice.

[@Fiona2254]

@@PappaBear_yt Pmpcx2 is historically correct, unlike your failed attempt of a joke.

[@PappaBear_yt]

@@Fiona2254 OK, whatever suits you. I am not attempting to change the history.

[@ANTONMOKOS]

Common people doesn't have enemies in other country, only politicians force them to do it.

[@wanyelewis9667]

Perhaps if the f-84s had been more aggressive and less defensive, the tables might have been turned. Hate seeing the bad guys get the upper hand, even if only occasionally.

[@showtime112]

Maybe. But generally, there was such a difference in those designs that to win, the F-84 needed to start the fight in a favorable position or the MiG pilot needed to make a mistake.

[@planetfun85]

Bad guys ? Who decided that ?

[@wanyelewis9667]

@@planetfun85 ummm...the commies were the bad guys. Like it or not. Jag off.

[@planetfun85]

@@wanyelewis9667 ,said the imperialist , who export war on every country in the name of democracy.