DEBRIEF: Debating Bart Ehrman About the Gospels with Jimmy Akin

A debate debrief with Frank Turek: crossexamined.org/debating-ba...
Original debate with Bart here: • DEBATE: Jimmy Akin vs ...

[@rickfilmmaker3934]

Jimmy is our Superman.

[@michaelinsc1644]

Jimmy is the man! He doesn't know it, but he played a big role in my return to the faith and joining the Catholic Church. So many thanks, Jimmy!

[@BeauBeckwith]

This was so good. I love when Christians from different traditions encourage one another!

[@andrewg37]

As a former Protestant, I still really enjoy Frank Turek. I used to listen to him almost everyday and still use a lot of his methods in disproving atheism. One of the best apologists out there!

[@GringoXavier]

Well said. I agree. Absolute top apologist and I believe he’s 100% genuine.

[@onlylove556]

Frank is very good at debunking atheistism 100% Unfortunately he is unbiblical with OSAS Protestant gospel. People like Bart destroy his OSAS Gospel. Bc they will say Bart was never a true Christian. Then some OSAS Christian's will say Bart is still a saved Christian 🤦🏻‍♂️ But that's why whenever we listen to prots, we chew the meat & spit out the bone. Lord bless u for seeing & seeking out the truth of Catholicism 🙏🏼💯📿🌹🍞🍷☦

[@jakeloftus6966]

@@onlylove556lol you are a silly goose

[@onlylove556]

@@jakeloftus6966 That pic of yours is what looks silly. So there's what u can say, & create fallacies. Or there's what u can prove, & bring facts. Then let's see the truth by using hard proof. Let's see who's being silly then. Bc my point is God gives us diff types of gifts = 1 Corinthians 12. So one of Frank's gifts is destroying atheism 100%. But Frank teaches that no1 can lose their salvation (OSAS). But the Bible alone teaches otherwise. It's the reason why no1 in history, Meaning throughout all antiquity. That no1 ever taught ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. As we call it easy believism, just believe in Jesus alone, & you're saved, you're all good there's nothing we have to do. That's why OSAS is only around 200 yrs old. That all started with dispensationalism, & the 7 tribulation rapture Theory. So if u want to have an educated conversation we can.

[@jakeloftus6966]

@@onlylove556I kinda like my picture whereas yours is some weird electric thing you silly goose

[@BrandonG667]

That was a great debate. Jimmy killed it. And Frank Turek is a great Christian apologist.

[@dsmp7]

God re-equipping Jimmy with his Arkansas accent for the great mass conversion of Southern Baptists and Nondenominationals in 2025

[@mattm7798]

LOL I like Jimmy but I don't think his southern accent will persuade protestants to suddenly think "oh, that reformation thing, yeah let's forget that" ;)

[@roshankurien203]

Frank was an ex catholic… hopefully He has a chat with good ol jimmy about that

[@alisterrebelo9013]

I sincerely pray Frank comes back. His story should be a chastisement to the Church as to what happens when we don't catechise our children.

[@mattm7798]

There is a companion video to this where I believe they discuss Catholicism and Protestantism. As a protestant, I believe the Catholic church has strayed in a number of areas but I still consider practicing Catholics my siblings in Christ.

[@roshankurien203]

@@mattm7798 yeah I believe the opposite.. think the Protestants need to stop Protesting ..happy to have the discussion as an ex Protestant.. also we have always considered mainline pre-“great awakening “ Protestants Christians..

[@mattm7798]

@@roshankurien203 Curious, as I am a more conservative non denomination christian(think southern baptist and calvary chapel): why is the great awakening a turning point for you as a catholic to divide between Christian or not?

[@roshankurien203]

@@mattm7798 hi thanks for the question. I apologise for the long rant in advance… Well as a Catholic I feel the Protestant reformation was a Protestant revolution. Now to be fair on the Protestant. The Catholic Church had a lot of corruption within the clergy, which 99% of Catholics will humbly concede to.In one sense we deserved it.. On the other hand I feel the issue is where authority lies finally as I feel authority is both objective and substantive from a biblical perspective provided one believes the scriptures are inspired… from a sola scriptura perspective( as Catholics we don’t hold to this) but as a ex Protestant myself I purposely identify myself to this cos I became Catholic from scripture alone( another reason why sola scriptura logically doesn’t work obviously two ppl read the same book but have different beliefs.) The Great awakings:( revival/ reforming the reformers). There are atleast 3 recognised : The intention was good bring the gospel to the ppl… the outcome on the other hand was mixed.. both good and bad.. On one hand you hand more equality to black slaves and they were allowed in the church. On the other hand you segregation of the black American community. There was a growth of American nationalism and influenced the revolutionary war..which maybe a good thing from an American perspective but not necessarily gospel driven or inspired. On one hand it led to the establishment of several renowned educational institutions, including Princeton, Rutgers, Brown and Dartmouth universities.( Non of which hold to the Christian belief anymore.).. women empowerment, On the other hand it was the birth of feminism. All it did was it brought more chaos then order the ppl genuinely trying to understand the gospel. Instead of trying to decipher the true meaning of the gospel, all what landed up happening was getting a dozen more different gospels that was started with. On one hand you have Jonathan Edward and George Whitfield. On the other hand you have Joseph smith Elllen G white and Charles Russle taiz and Charles Finny . And it didn’t stop there by the time you hit the 3rd awakening you have the entire Azusa street revival( Penetecostel birth) Looking back. All it did was jump from. One heresy to the next. And because there’s no authority and every man for himself, all it did was make more religious beliefs. And brought back old heresy’s which the church managed to purge out 1500 yrs back( airianism/JW, Modalism/ Oneness penetecostalism) Unfortunately the road to hell is always paved by good intentions

[@CMVBrielman]

I would love to see Jimmy and Frank discuss Jimmy’s more recent debates with Protestants.

[@Catmonks7]

Frank and jimmy super apologetic duo 👍🙏✝️🇻🇦 Protestant and Catholics should work more together defending the Christian faith against skepticism 👍

[@revelation20232]

If you can't convert 'em I suppose at least cooperate with 'em against atheists, agnostics, & believers of other faiths.

[@rickfilmmaker3934]

I'm shocked fundamentalist Frank Turek has Jimmy on!!! I never expected this.

[@xxrandmlinksxxbruh2419]

I wouldn’t put him in the fundamental category

[@susand3668]

Dear @@xxrandmlinksxxbruh2419, agreed. In 14:20 to 14:30, Frank Turek mentions the fundamentalist way of reading the Bible in a negative way -- and then he and Jimmy discuss the Gospels' "getting the gist of" the message of Jesus as being accurate without needing to be precise.

[@timothy2794]

Turek seems more like the category Bill Craig is in. Very open to science, not a "Earth is flat and 6000 years old" type.

[@xxrandmlinksxxbruh2419]

@@susand3668 great point and thanks for sharing the timestamps

[@jeremias-serus]

Frank Turek isn’t a fundamentalist.

[@Sally-sells-seshells]

I don’t know what I like better, the debate or the analysis after the debate. Both are very well done.

[@alisterrebelo9013]

I don't often remember the details of debates, but I do for this one. The Holy Spirit be praised. It was like Jimmy playing 4D chess with Bart playing conventional chess. I've never seen so much pent up rage in Bart, who visibly went through the 5 stages of grief when he realised how Jimmy had planned for this and the strategy that was employed. I'm not a prophet, but I expect this debate to go down as one of the all time greatest.

[@Ruudes1483]

It’s more like Jimmy was playing 4D Chess and Bart was playing checkers.

[@alisterrebelo9013]

@@Ruudes1483 Brother, Bart is a ridiculously smart man, and a testament to God's creative power, please reflect on that for a while. To say Bart was playing checkers is manifestly uncharitable.

[@Ruudes1483]

@@alisterrebelo9013 I was just messing. No need to get pressed and offended on his behalf.

[@posthawk1393]

23:29 Great point from Jimmy here. Just because Luke and Matthew said that Jesus appeared in different towns doesn't mean they contradict. Jesus could have appeared in both towns, but for issues of brevity, preserving space, and forming their own story they each focused on one town. With John's Gospel we see Jesus appearing in both Jerusalem and Galilee. Luke was likely trying to save space in a very expensive scroll.

[@tomasrocha6139]

He wrote the biggest Gospel in the New Testament by far, the author wasn't trying to save space

[@posthawk1393]

@@tomasrocha6139 just because it was the biggest doesn’t mean he wasn’t trying to save space. They were all dealing with limited space and resources.

[@daniels7250]

I am amazed at your level of knowledge. God bless you more

[@harrydaniels1942]

Great video! Jimmy that opening was unbelievably cowboy esque! It must be on purpose at this point

[@mattm7798]

Can we take a moment to admire Jimmy's pipe collection...truly a man of class and taste :)

[@JimmyAkin]

What you see on camera is only a small part of it. ☺

[@susand3668]

I am so happy that Jimmy is able to find points of agreement with Bart Ehrman, AND then also here with Frank Turek!

[@denisy6]

Jimmy you are my daily source, love everything you do, tysm!

[@Irishman8787]

God bless 🙏🙏🙏🙏 👍🤣😆❤❤❤❤😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@CatchCraftInc]

What is this, a crossover episode??

[@Aethelhart]

What an exciting crossover!! I've met Dr. Turkey several times and read his book multiple times while I was still protestant. I still listen to him, but am a big fan of Jimmy now too.

[@dynamic9016]

Really appreciate this video.

[@sfelton20]

Love your content!

[@jamesfahey5686]

Frank Turek and Jimmy Akin together??!! In this economy?!!!

[@RafaelGarcia-jb3me]

😂

[@fernandoformeloza4107]

Great review from a debate with someone as formidable as Bart Erhman

[@LadySilmarien]

Loved this. A fabulous discussion. Two of my favorite apologists. 😊

[@kristenfortin-ashburne9979]

God Bless Jimmy

[@Jerome616]

Great video, nice to see Jimmy here.

[@rickfilmmaker3934]

James was the Son of Clopas who was married to the "other Mary" who was at the Cross. All this is in the Gospels. Why he stays so "fundamentalistic" on this, who knows. It's all there, as the great Brant Pitre explains.

[@rickfilmmaker3934]

I have to give Frank a lot of credit for having Super Jimmy on his show. But why Frank thinks Jesus had a brother is beyond me.

[@nanagaga2001]

Even Jimmy will call James the brother of Jesus when talking to a protestant because (as we all know) "brother" doesn't necessarily mean the same mother and/or father.

[@magnificentuniverse3085]

Ty for your videos

[@rhannyuzarraga5885]

Thank you Jimmy

[@kennethstalley351]

That's why Jesús calls it FAITH.!

[@Truthseek72563]

Didn’t Jimmy say that Joseph owned “real estate” in some other city? Like Bart said, “you can explain everything in the bible by doing mental gymnastics”

[@illinoisgospelfan650]

So sry to hear that the writers of the most important book ever had to economize. I guess money does indeed govern EVERYTHING!!!!

[@mattm7798]

I knew Bart's methodology was highly flawed when he argued miracles can't exist, because they violate the laws of physics, because we can't violate the laws of mathematics (2+2=4). I was was like "what, that's your argument??????"

[@mattm7798]

One thing to keep in mind we see in John(IIRC) that Jesus specifically promised the disciples that the Holy Spirit would bring to remembrance the words/teachings of Jesus, so the gospel authors were not just relying on their memory, they had supernatural assistance. I say this because I think Frank takes a higher view of the accuracy of Jesus' words than does Jimmy. While I lean more towards Frank's side, just wanted to point out that the Bible does call out at least one supernatural method of remembrance.

[@sammyking9407]

Man is Jimmy one of the finest or what!

[@Lurkingdolphin]

Willian lane Craig I thought handled Bart very well . Bart was under serious pressure when Craig started showing Bart’s reasoning was fallacious and be really dismantled him with probabilities .

[@BryanKirch]

Can you do a video refuting the odyssey being the typological framework for the gospel of mark. There’s some really convincing evidence so I’d like to hear the other side

[@Aethelhart]

I've never heard this, but I'm curious.

[@josephmiller3672]

Can you provide something or someone who promotes this?

[@BryanKirch]

@@josephmiller3672 I’d rather not it’s easily searchable I don’t want to promote something I haven’t studied especially of its false and leads someone away from Christ but the way it’s presented is very compelling to the average person

[@sliglusamelius8578]

Do you mean The Odyssey by Homer? That "odyssey"? Because the Old Testament provides the typology for Jesus, as stated in many places in the NT.

[@mikejurney9102]

Luke does mention that there was more than one occasion in which Jesus appeared to his disciples. In Luke he only mentions the one occasion in which Jesus told them to remain in Jerusalem. In Acts, Luke says this was only one of presumable many occasions that Jesus appeared to them. Luke does not deny that Jesus appeared in Galilee. Matthew does not deny that Jesus appeared in Jerusalem. John includes them both. Luke does not deny that Mary, Joseph, and Jesus escaped to Egypt; he just doesn't mention it. Matthew does not deny that they went to the temple to circumcise Jesus; he just does not mention it. Matthew does not say where Joseph was when the angle in his dream told him to escape to Egypt. It was about 2 years after the birth of Jesus that the Magi visited them. So there was plenty of time to have Jesus circumcised before escaping to Egypt. The reason Luke does not mention the escape to Egypt is because then he would have to tell his readers why, because Herod wanted to kill all the boys in Bethlehem. But I think Luke was writing more for a Greek audience, so he did not want to mention the baby killing of Herod. Matthew was writing for a Hebrew audience, many of whom despised Herod.

[@tmoney8785]

So where's the debate at can't find it

[@JimmyAkin]

It's here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJ-anaCrZdWYoZI

[@mattm7798]

Bart makes the same mistake many skeptics, seemingly grasping at straws to discredit the Bible, where they see a difference(like Jimmy said, Gabriel to Mary and an un-named angel to Joseph) and call it a contradiction(or Bart's example, fleeing to Egypt or going back to Nazareth IIRC). They are only contradictions if both cannot be true. None, I repeat, none, of Ehrman's examples fit this criteria.

[@alisterrebelo9013]

Bart's objection that the synoptics don't focus on Jesus's divinity as much as John is one of the dumbest arguments that ignores the reality of what Matthew, Mark and Luke do in their gospels. They literally tell us Jesus is YHWH or Jehovah in the opening chapters. Matthew, right after establishing Jesus's lineage and birth story, IMMEDIATELY in Chapter 3 calls out the Prophecy of Isaiah, where the calls is made to prpare for YHWH. For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah when he said, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness: *Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.”* Matthew 3:3 Mark is EVEN MORE direct, literally opens his Gospel with the same Prophecy. * the voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight-”* Mark 1:2-3 Luke follows a similar style as Matthew, establishing the birth story for both Jesus and John thr Baptist and in Luke 3 raises the same Prophecy. “The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. - Luke 3:4 ASV so we can see the reference to YHWH. Isaiah 40:3 ASV - 3 *The voice of one that crieth, Prepare ye in the wilderness the way of Jehovah; make level in the desert a highway for our God.*

[@Truthseek72563]

Jimmy, my question in: why wasn’t the Holy Spirit guiding them so them there wouldn’t be any difference. Comparing it to other texts in the 1st century doesn’t make sense, since I don’t think the Holy Spirit was guiding their writing.

[@sliglusamelius8578]

It really gives the accounts verisimilitude given that each author is different. The claim of collusion is just wrong.

[@danlopez.3592]

Why would anyone want other men to interpret their faith for them. Read the Bible and think for yourself.

[@matthewcauthorn9731]

Agreed, I have and do, I have come to understand Christ has a Church. One,Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. God love you.

[@danlopez.3592]

@@matthewcauthorn9731 to each his own. Some like to be told what to believe and others enjoy more freedom. The church has held power over many lives through the years and doubt it will relinquish power anytime soon.

[@markushill8639]

​@@danlopez.3592Would you rather have Jesus tell you what to believe or have more "freedom" about your beliefs?

[@danlopez.3592]

@@markushill8639 if there is a creator that cares about conveying a message to all his creation , clearly, then myself and everyone that this creator chooses to impart this message on would follow it just as loyally that that many religious believers have done for thousands of different gods that have not done this. You believe in a God that has not conveyed his message clearly to his creation. This is a big issue, but no different from any other religious story in antiquity that were clearly written by men.

[@wilsontexas]

What you are saying is counter to catholicism. Believe the old men in power.

[@diannalaubenberg7532]

Bart is wrong.

[@gregorybarrett4998]

As is your wont, you emphasise commonality and collaboration, rather than difference for the sake of divergence, while nonetheless being clear where relevant about distinctiveness about Catholic beliefs.

[@wilsontexas]

Catholics aren't like early christians. They have 2000 years of changes and additions...tradition with authoritarian reasons.

[@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns]

Say the g lol

[@beksinski]

I understand that people believe in miracles and ascribe theological significance but trying to prove one historically just makes no sense to me. I mean, if someone made a similar claim today even with eye witnesses it doesn't pass muster with most anyone who isn't invested in the tradition that upholds them. India, for instance has a fairly steady stream of eye witness miracles similar to those found in the bible. Do Christian believers take these reports at face value? Because if not its just curious that reports from thousands of years ago would gain some special credibility. Especially when mundane events that do not contradict modern understandings of physics and biology are so contentious.

[@sliglusamelius8578]

That's why God gives us modern medical Christian miracles. There are plenty of miracles if you investigate.

[@VME28]

Frank will soon return to the true Church of Jesus Christ.

[@Truthseek72563]

Jesus died. 2 disciples: Peter and Mary convinced the other that he rose. They had such sorrow and they actually believed he was God that they allowed themselves to suffer. We see this in Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, etc

[@kimfleury]

That's your proposal. But you eliminated the account given in the Gospel about the time Jesus appeared to all the disciples except Thomas, "in the Upper Room, _where the doors were _*_locked_*_ for fear of the Jews."_ Editing because I forgot to point out that Thomas wasn't convinced by what the other disciples told them, and his response was to declare that he would never believe them unless he put his fingers in the nail wounds and his hand in the wound in Jesus' side for himself. And then the following week, Jesus appeared to them again, same Upper Room, same locked doors because it wasn't yet safe to go out in public where they would be recognized as followers of the man that was crucified for blasphemy. And this time, Jesus told Thomas, "Put your fingers in the nail wounds and put your hand in the wound in My side." Thomas did so, and fell to his knees, proclaiming, "My Lord and my God!"

[@Truthseek72563]

@@kimfleury you’re acting like someone was there verifing if Jesus was there lol. They just write it down, as oral stories passed down.

[@rickfilmmaker3934]

Frank can logically disprove Atheism, and can logically prove the Resurrection. He left the Catholic Church famously saying "there is no mediator between you and Christ, praying to Mary and the Saints is WRONG." And he truly believes Jesus had brothers, which he didn't. Frank is wrong, not the Catholics, that's why I give him credit for actually having Jimmy on.

[@robertgillis6245]

A lot of people believe The Church changed. The Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. The Sabbath was always Saturday and it still is. Paul in one of his letters wrote that “ They gather on The Lord’s Day.” Both days Saturday and Sunday are Holy. The Sabbath was never changed.