Expert Analyst Challenges Destiny, Gets Basic Facts Wrong

Destiny debates political analyst Omar Baddar on Israel and Palestine...
Date: 29 Jan, 2023
Omar Baddar
/ omarbaddar
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#destiny
#politics
#debate

[@destiny]

EDITOR'S NOTE: people wanted me to splice in clips or sources but this isn't a drama video or manifesto and it's not appropriate for serious debates to insert clips to back up Destiny's points. Go to the reddit thread if you want the receipts or do some research www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1acmn50/august_when_youre_editing_up_the_israelgaza/

[@TariqNasheed117]

Note this: Destiny is scared of me.

[@CreatureColossus]

For drama it's ok, but for a serious debate it's not ok to have clips or sources? Shouldn't it be the opposite if anything?

[@dracondebates]

@@CreatureColossus Interjecting sources after the fact can skew how people feel the debate went given the clips weren’t played for the people in the debate.

[@greenhammer3263]

Destiny says he knows what the Palestinians want and dont want

[@why8642]

Sounds like an excuse to not edit more of the vod 🤔

[@christophernoneya4635]

"history is rather straightforward" said no one who understands history

[@yaeli_i_guess]

exactly

[@alecstewart2612]

The most straightforward thing about history that we know is that every ~364 days, a new year starts. Maybe. That and Destiny is a woman's name.

[@EmperorDxD]

​@@alecstewart2612but that not even true considering Feburary

[@alecstewart2612]

@@EmperorDxD true, and possibly if we went by something other than the Gregorian calendar.

[@gonfreecss6002]

One of the most offensive parts of the conversation. No actual historian would ever even just mentally conceive this thought, let alone utter it aloud.

[@redfoxtheposer8808]

You're more interested in proving your point than agreeing with mine :,(

[@okbye4552]

:'3

[@Entropic_StarKid]

:'c

[@pawbgles]

OwO

[@squatch545]

Destiny got destroyed.

[@ShrimpyWilliams]

@@squatch545No u

[@daves465]

The lack of cookies, potato chips and soda in Gaza are his main grievances with Israel.

[@John-bravooo]

Yeah not the child terror camps, polygamy, killing of political dissidents, and islamist assholery.

[@rexvectum]

"Look I'm not here to play these childish games where you bring things up that prove me wrong"

[@enlightenednormie242]

True 💯

[@progressiveleader7347]

Stop blaming everything on Destiny’s ignorance and stupidity

[@pontiusthepilot]

"Uh, you basically don't know anything and are worthless and I think you know nothing about anything. I hope I'm not coming off condescending, though" - this freakin guy

[@Nazzul]

​@asnaeb2 whatever you say Omar.

[@WilsonMagna]

@@asnaeb2 Why would we watch that video when this debate shows Omar is a dodgeball champion and is a master of omitting anything that shines a bad light to Palestinians?

[@alexanderbellini2526]

@@asnaeb2 I watched it, no it doesn't ,his video just shows him strawmanning Destiny again, and misrepresenting information and the discussion at hand. Honestly I've been thinking for a while there must be at least one level headed, knowledgeable, fair person who supports Palestine out there, but I don't think there is. It would be like trying to find a rational, knowledgble and fair person who supports the Nazi's they just don't exist.

[@amorencinteroph3428]

​@@alexanderbellini2526 I could certainly justify SOME positions for both of those cases, but yeah, as a whole, it's a hard sell. XD

[@shak666]

LOL TY FOR THE LOUGH@@asnaeb2

[@Awaken_To_0]

"History is rather straightforward..." If anyone says this, *immediately* disregard what they're talking about. Even if they are correct, they have no idea why.

[@JackAerobow]

That was such a huge red flag on his part to be honest, saying something as easily provably nonsense as history being "straightforward"; i mean you can argue that it's "straightforward" if you're unwilling to go into the weeds. Insane.

[@Awaken_To_0]

@@JackAerobow yeah. Of course it is straightforward if you deliberately discount any and all events that contradict the narrative. But that's not History, it is Fan Fiction.

[@manchesterunited9576]

He was referring to the history of Israel - Palestine, which is very straightforward. This doesn't mean there aren't any details or important context but the vast narrative of Israeli dominance, wae crimes and ethnic cleansing is undeniable.

[@Awaken_To_0]

@@manchesterunited9576 Another prime example. No, the history of Israel-Palestine which stretches back to direct consequences of the Roman empire if not _2100 BC_ is not "straightforward." You're just a bought-in partisan who starts from the conclusion you want and works backwards.

[@user-io5xd6to1k]

@@manchesterunited9576 It’s not straight forward, dummy. Two different groups of ppl have different outlooks on that history. So how is that straight forward?

[@Silverpicker]

It's rare to see someone debate in such bad faith as Omar Baddar. It's really sad and pathetic honestly

[@Supahero05]

I have never heard somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about say 'You don't know what you are talking about' so often.

[@slykeren8371]

"Jordan literally annexed the west bank" this guy: you want to debate semantics

[@lucky_object]

omar - "ive been studying my whole adult life so anything you disagree with is wrong. also if i dont have a clear answer then you're playing semantics and being bad faith." crazy

[@truefact844]

The funny thing is at school, I imagine most American schools have classes about Palestine. I guess destiny loved those classes.

[@anarchopignut]

Step 1: Call out streamer for not knowing enough on Twitter. Step 2: Find out live that he knows more than you thought and completely faceplant. Step 3: "Let's not play games..."

[@butthardley5160]

​@@truefact844quite the imagination

[@BrendanishLeo]

​@@anarchopignut American schools in fact do not mention Palestine lmao

[@anarchopignut]

@@BrendanishLeo they in fact do. Not sure you're replying to tho

[@Dejan3979]

Man, it's so crazy that this guy seems less read on the subject and spent 70% of the debate accusing Destiny of that.

[@OlYables]

Projection is an effective debate tactic when you cannot support your side of the argument. Simply accuse the other side of being what you are! (It worked for Trump in ‘16.)

[@pyotrvoitsekhovski9402]

Guys here’s a tip if you ever want to enter a debate: don’t have your entire perspective hinge upon an appeal to authority. Thats just insane.

[@Wisdom.]

Omar: "What about X?" Destiny: *answers Omar: you're uninformed Destint: inform me Omar: cycles through talking points A B & C that Destiny already answered. Repeat

[@jc-zp1de]

lol most of those “answers” was straw manning but sure being a destiny troller yourself can live up to that bullshit.

[@Gaddo_]

@@jc-zp1deplease provide an example of one such straw-man, since he did it the entire debate it should be easy.

[@KinoTechUSA69]

​@@jc-zp1de drop examples, back up the claim

[@efrainamezcua7594]

@@jc-zp1deDamn are all pro Palestine people liars like you? 😂😅😢

[@Jayx85x]

​@@jc-zp1deWe're waiting

[@shaun5047]

Sounds like this “expert” hasn’t ever had any real push back. Literally every single time Destiny brought up a fact that didn’t fit with his narrative he immediately refused to engage.

[@mikemorenilla7444]

challenging him is racist.

[@jasongoron6400]

My thoughts exactly, it appears he's used to lecturing people and not actually discussing the finer points

[@tb8654]

​@@jasongoron6400definitely this right here and it ties into why I'm kinda thankful that Destiny exists lol guy taught me to take your own argument and try to argue a steelman against yourself in order to either improve your argument or discover that your stance is inconsistent and it saves a lot of time from dealing with either BS arguing or BS people

[@alekzgavriel-russo7453]

The typical way these types work is that they bounce from one likeminded podcast to another, not actually challenging their positions but 'reinforcing' it. The reason he had to resort to essentially attacking Destiny and acting like a child is because its probably one of the first times hes had to actually *defend* his beliefs.

[@squatch545]

Just the opposite happened. What video were you watching? You must live in opposite world. Maybe take your ideological goggles off and actually watch the video again with fresh eyes.

[@misarthim6538]

I'm an expert, I've read everything in the world that supports my preconceived activist notions and completely ignored anything that contradicts it. I hope it doesn't sound too condescending.

[@johnvenuti1844]

you sound like Destiny

[@bluecoffee8414]

Lol 😂

[@tnsxpm]

requests to educate the audience: 37 times audience was educated: 0

[@factjuniorroll]

This was the real tragedy

[@RaijinProductions]

I'm quitting my job and becoming an expert analyst. Seems like an easy dub career.

[@Neverwas_one]

Get a bookshelf and fill it with a bunch of nonfiction that you have never read and then film yourself talking bullshit while sitting in front of it.

[@skyefox]

Pierre Sprey did it for like 60 years, if he can do it so can you.

[@KinoTechUSA69]

​@@skyefoxHe really, really did. That RT/Democracy Now tour can be lucrative.

[@angeltonny1746]

It's a red flag when you see someone with bookshelves perfectly framed right behind their webcam; what are you trying to prove by having them there?

[@discobecky9179]

dub career?

[@johnleoks7642]

The entire debate was Omar running away whenever Destiny challenged him on a fact and crying about Destiny being bad faith. "Analyst" btw. Embarrassing.

[@Jst.a.Normal.Bottle.of.Mustard]

Must be one of those Hamasabi type analysts

[@DarkPassenger]

Seems to be a pattern with pro Palestine peeps. Still waiting to hear just one admit some fault in the conflict.

[@theywouldnthavetocensormei9231]

​@@DarkPassengerthey can't, anyone brain dead enough to be on Palestine's side in this conflict is obviously not capable of understanding the nuance of war. This is the most obvious example we have in recent history of one side violently aggressing against another, and the side that was aggressed against defending themselves. There is absolutely zero ground to stand on in supporting Palestine. That doesn't mean Israel hasn't done horrible things too, but none of the horrible things from either side would be happening if Palestine didn't attack Israel.

[@hallo-mt5tx]

that is the partisan hack strategy just make accusations over and over, confirmation bias of their audience then fills in the gaps

[@antiyttrad]

destiny doesn't know shit.

[@eival]

You will not read this and thats ok Steven, but im an Israeli born living in the Netherlands. Usually i watch lots of right winged youtubers or podcasts. But i think you are not left or right, you are trying to be fair and truthfull. I really really respect your perspective on this issue. Thanks for your honesty!

[@captainsmoka9864]

This guy is the biggest far left person on the planet. He’s so left he supports pedo fantasies using AI technology.

[@bobertwithar]

I listened to this guy for 30 minutes thinking that all his talking points sounded familiar only to realize I've heard Hasan make these exact same points.. almost word for word at times

[@pragmatic-no-nonsense9363]

Do you expect truth to change…? I’m confused…

[@Kelvasisthebest]

Because they both get their arguments from Finkelstein. He's the source of so much poison.

[@johnvenuti1844]

​@@pragmatic-no-nonsense9363No that's even worse, he is expecting history to vary. That tells a lot about the education system in America.

[@najyazzam3153]

@@johnvenuti1844Huh? There are alot of versions of history? It’s not straightforward as Omar says so…

[@najyazzam3153]

@@pragmatic-no-nonsense9363No. that’s why Pro Palestinians are trying so hard to change it.

[@PaperMache7]

This is what happens when you have too many "obvious" fundamental assumptions, as soon as you get pushed on anything it's all just "semantics" and your opponent being "bad faith".

[@brianlowe904]

I noticed that as well. In his opening statements he uses the term “fundamental reality” to describe his position. He works just as hard at the very start to paint any opposition to him like disagreeing with his stance means you’re just literally wrong about objective fact

[@Neverwas_one]

I love that people use semantics as a catch all for "irrelevant shit" when semantics means something entirely different. For those who dont know, semantics is the propositional content(meaning) of a word.

[@TheKomentor]

I think he made the mistake of researching who Destiny was before entering the debate. He learnt from his pro-Palestine (Hasan-friendly) circles that Destiny was a bad faith debator who uses debate tactics. So as soon as he was challenged on things, he deluded himself into thinking that Destiny was using debate tactics on him, in spite of Destiny just trying to have a normal conversation. Also, it's near impossible for a muzlem to be unbiased/unemotional in a isropalest debate.

[@azahias9]

Really wish people would get out of the habit of saying things like “obviously” and “everyone knows” to deceptively blanket their narrative as fact.

[@Rustproof]

​@@Neverwas_one I agree with you for the most part, but think when semantics were originally used as a debate or argument term, that someone likely used it to describe when somone is looking at the details of the definition of the words that person was using in the argument, rather than the the whole picture of what they were saying. Kind of like how the word genocide has geno, meaning genetics and cide, meaning removing the life from. So when people say that someone is committing genocide by kicking someone out of a country they live in, even if en masse, they are wrong. Words are formed by a person/people but given shape by a group.

[@ShadoWafel]

You know a person is an ideologue when they can review a conflict over 75 years in the making, and is completly unable to condemn any action of the side they are defending. This "analyst" is just an activist EDIT: as I keep going through the video I realize I was wrong. He's not an activist. He's a full on Jihadi advocate

[@yaeli_i_guess]

agreed, people who claim this conflict is simple or that one side is innocent angels and has done nothing wrong ever are obviously bad faith, i'm saying this as an israeli. and it's hilarious he kept accusing him of being bad faith when that was literally all he was doing to the point of not being able to acknowledge basic facts.

[@user-sk4ds1rg1z]

A lot of these "analysts" are Islamists. Iran and Qatar spend a looooooooot of money in the USA now.

[@agarthastudio6005]

The conflict only exists because somebody invaded & took over somebody's country. There's no debate to be had here as to who the bad guy is, unless you're a fuckin' idiot.

[@Rallylabs]

Yeah this guy is similar to someone like mohammed Hijab. He uses his so called “analyst” status and university degree to back up his insane extremist views to people who don’t know any better. Then when someone makes a counter argument he just lies and says they don’t know the facts. And then he has the nerve to call Destiny bad faith.

[@exiledhebrew1994]

@@yaeli_i_guesstrue; turning off water to babies is a good thing

[@MrJpmoneypants]

After being made to look stupid, saying “let me educate your audience” is the most irritating thing that can be said

[@drs4983]

Let's not focus on the specifics as that ruins my narrative

[@angryonion9550]

100%

[@apexcatalyst3208]

This guy makes me embarrassed to be bald

[@BillClay88]

You just kick him out of the bald race. Not that difficult.

[@Mountain24665]

😅

[@anthonyrono8607]

I think he makes valid points.. If this host is not checked he he is condescending

[@SBSB5]

amen

[@jrk22233]

I love how he starts by saying he wants to get into the weeds because he thinks destiny doesn't know anything then about 30minutes into the video he's complaining about getting into the weeds and wants to look at broad pictures

[@gastarbeiter8384]

Yea when destiny started talking about the oslo accords, camp david etc the guy immediately started to sweat 😂.

[@BrendanishLeo]

​@@gastarbeiter8384pretty sure the loser brought up camp david first, but the issue was he didn't expect destiny to actually know about them too.

[@jeffwells641]

It sounds like he's used to getting quick wins against people who know literally nothing about the issue, so when someone can respond with any competence he just crumbles.

[@johnvenuti1844]

well he was right about Destiny not knowing the topic...

[@BGWDstudios]

I've noticed that the level of effort someone puts into pronouncing 'Hamas' is directly proportional to the chance you're about to hear some wild bullshit.

[@arthurporter131]

This x1,000,000

[@jeffanderson1708]

Literally, IDF and Israelis pronounce it "kzdchamas" all the time. Probably because they don't have the same H sound that we're used to. I suppose it's similar in Arabic, but I've mostly heard it pronounced in a special way by Israelis.

[@bluecoffee8414]

Lol😂 very true actually!

[@bluecoffee8414]

​@jeffanderson1708 I find it weird in English we say 'Gaza' with a 'G' but apparently neither Israelis nor Palestinians can say 'g'

[@jeffanderson1708]

@@bluecoffee8414 or 'H'

[@devonmarr9872]

Destiny: points out real history for why Gaza has checkpoints Other guy: let's not play games

[@Keviamaya]

Let's not play games, if you question any details I left out you must be a partisan hack.

[@LooseOrangeJuice]

Destiny doesn't actually understand any of this history though. You can literally see him trying to look up basic historical facts in real time. I don't even get why he's talking about this topic, when it's clear he knows basically nothing about the situation. He doesn't have answers for why Israel bombed the Gaza airport, for instance. The look on his face when this was brought up was as if this was news to him. Insane that people like Destiny think their voices need to be heard on this topic. He's ignorant about the facts and it shows.

[@harryseaton7444]

​​@@LooseOrangeJuicei suppose youre a phd in geopolitics focused on the isreal palestine conflict then, so why dont you tell us why isreal did that? Or are you just a coping loser that thinks the isrealis are evil and palestinians are poor helpless victims.

[@devonmarr9872]

@@LooseOrangeJuice have you not seen his research videos or other debates on this topicm?

[@richybambam1995]

​@@LooseOrangeJuiceknowing the history verbatim is not enough. You have to be able to interpret and combine ideas and logic to the history which you or this guy did not show. Just "no you don't know the history" that's not enough even if it was true

[@twitch3111]

next time put "expert" in quotes

[@kainoizking]

Yeah that bit really needs to be redacted lmao this was a frustrating watch.

[@areliablesource7733]

No need for quotes just change it to "Activist"

[@sufferedlearnedchanged]

2:00 You've never done one of these shows before but you thought your first one being Destiny was a good idea? What planet are you on?

[@tomasv8732]

I have no idea how you have the patience to debate these people. They literally ignore the truth to feed their agenda and as soon as they are challenged, they deflect, insult or change the topic. Just ridiculous.

[@jeffanderson1708]

He doesn't have the patience. He freaks out with his squeaky whiny voice almost constantly.

[@jordanpearson894]

Are we watching the same streamer? That's literally all Destiny did the entire second debate with Omar

[@MichelleKavarnos]

I would never be able to keep my cool.

[@KinoTechUSA69]

This guy made a fool of himself. That smart girl ran circles around him.

[@Zyzyx442]

That girl sure can run.

[@TransKidsMafia]

Houthi trans kids

[@vishg5148]

@@TransKidsMafianice npc words

[@Drigallski]

@@TransKidsMafia no they just starve them

[@PashaandDrosha]

Clever girl... Destiny is a velociraptor's name

[@MisterS.]

If this guy has extended knowledge on the subject, he sure as hell not spilling it

[@respectfulgamer7232]

Secret knowledge!

[@memepolice8542]

If he were to actually share his knowledge people would be able to form counterpoints against it and that make his brain hurty😢

[@areliablesource7733]

It just boils down to anti Semitic conspiracies and America bad.

[@iguacu3517]

@@respectfulgamer7232 the Trump strategy - if you elect this guy president he’ll tell everyone the secret expert knowledge to solve the Israel-Palestine conflict.

[@deriznohappehquite]

@@respectfulgamer7232 Arcane Gnosis is a core tenet of leftism.

[@R.E.E.D.]

Destiny: "Point out exactly where I was incorrect in anything I just said." Him: "And I will, I will do it very directly. Right now. Okay. So... let's talk about how the palestinians couldn't have sugar." Me: "Dang... I wonder if some of these debates should be had at gunpoint to encourage people like him to ANSWER THE F@#$ING QUESTION?!??!!?"

[@jloiben12]

I find it repulsive when someone explicitly refuses to engage with the details. That’s just admitting one is doing team sports instead of using actual principles

[@ChaseFace]

"I don't say any of this condescendingly" he says as he's incredibly passive aggressive and quick to anger for literally the entire interaction

[@bluemoondm8629]

"I'm Palestinian American, I've been active on this issue for pretty much my entire adult life" So right off the bat more or less admitting to being an identity based activist, less so an analyst.

[@EdgarFriendlysCivicsTeacher]

Bingo

[@caseypdx503]

What did you think of the respective arguments though?

[@bluemoondm8629]

@@caseypdx503 I've only seen the first 10 minutes or so currently, and I think this "expert" has a very shallow understanding of international law and obligations. We will see about the rest

[@evamurray2564]

I would be interested to know your thoughts after you have completed the video as well as understanding your thoughts on the conflict in general.

[@mikemorenilla7444]

@@caseypdx503 He didn't make any arguments. He just lied about the facts and condescended to Destiny when he corrected him.

[@315pasha]

15:51 wtf is destiny talking about here?! There is no reading of international law that posits that an emerging state from a conflict owns all of the land that was subject to the dispute. He just made that up. Who is making that argument? I think he’s trying to describe the Terra Nulis principle that was applied to mandatory territories that says that the borders of a state that emerges from a colony is defined by the existing borders of the colony.

[@Mattropolis97]

To be fair I believe I remember him prefacing that point with “I’m pretty sure -“. He didn’t present it as something he knew for sure, and either way it doesn’t impact his point that international law is ambiguous and often contradictory

[@danteston83]

Its amazing the legallity of the UN is brushed aside when its claims against illegal settlements and crimes against humanity but is 100% accepted and referenced when declaring Israel ligitimate statehood.

[@Matt-fr2rh]

If you’re an expert and know the facts, getting hyper specific is exactly what you would want to do

[@ramiqudah7567]

Unless you have a photographic memory, you cant bring up 80 years worth of detailed information up on a whim

[@pannkeki8940]

​@@ramiqudah7567You should at least be able to bring up the points that you're saying the other debater is mistaken on 😂

[@bulldozer8950]

@@ramiqudah7567but you can know the details of the 10-20 of the most important events. It’s totally reasonable, it’s about what ap high school history classes ask, and if you’re claiming to be well versed in a topic you certainly should know at least that much.

[@red2theelectricboogaloo961]

@@ramiqudah7567 you only say that because you don't know what it's like to be an expert on something. not a flex.

[@Spaceman99966]

An activist that studied the problem for years not knowing the basic facrs sounds like a standard activist to me , not sure why everyone is surprised at the stupidity

[@noahjwhite]

Indeed

[@lisao6928]

What basic facts does he not know? Name 1

[@vicariouschism86]

​@lisao6928 that the West Bank was a part of Jordan that they annexed. He didn't know that and that's SUPER important.

[@vicariouschism86]

​@@lisao6928😊

[@matsab7930]

@@lisao6928that Jordan officially annexed the West Bank. He had no idea that the West Bank was part of Jordan back in the 1950’s. That Palestinians have been starved by the Israelis. The population has grown year after year, this is inconsistent with the notion that they have been starved.

[@typhoidmary2967]

"i'm just trying to educate you" energy

[@jordyb57]

It’s so clear this guy only engages with those who think like him and has never actually had to defend his views…

[@tornadre]

I love it when they call you “uneducated” then not once want to talk about a fact 😊

[@johneurek8181]

Facts are weeds, he didn’t want to get into the weeds.

[@Eric-ep4dg]

Imagine being 'educated' on a subject for 15 years and getting rolled by someone who just learned where the area is on a map

[@neftaherrera5540]

😂

[@Bmoney1337]

Right lol. All the flaunting the guy did about his own credentials only made it way more embarrassing to watch his arguments be easily dismantled

[@Lazerface84]

A true testament to the combined power of stimulants and autism.

[@Eric-ep4dg]

@@Bmoney1337 that's what happens when your arguing from a flawed viewpoint with invalid reasoning. There's definitely a good argument for the pro Palestine side to be made. But not one that can be reasonably explained without conceding to the glaring realities of the atrocities on both sides of the issue.

[@HarrDarr]

@@Eric-ep4dg Destiny's position is pro palestine, he is just anti-hamas and theocracy. He does not support the status quo in israel, wants the pseudo apartheid to cease and for there to be an amicable mutually beneficial 2-state solution.

[@davethomas3434]

People just don't take Destiny seriously at all, and they think they talk a good game and can contend with him yet they don't understand he's geared up on autism and Vyvanse.

[@chasesimons3579]

Destiny is a smart dude. But when it comes to Israel Palestine he should defer to the experts or get educated on live stream like he did here.

[@paulalcohol]

Dude was so out of his league he kept accusing destiny of doing what he, himself, was doing.

[@yaasirkhan9027]

tactic he clearly stole from Israel.

[@imoutofnames1]

"It's incredible how little you know about this." Translation: "It's incredible how many things you know that disagree with my narrative."

[@70othl3ss4]

True

[@squatch545]

Destiny" The ANC did not target civilians" Google: ANC targeted civilians 883,000 hits. Destiny: "Who cares about International Law, or what all the human rights agencies say, it's all so vague and murky" Also Destiny: "Hamas uses human shields as defined by international law and by the Red Cross and every other human rights agency".

[@DirennaEnthusiast]

This man saw the international laws once and was like “I am Ironman” *snap*

[@315pasha]

Destiny: “I’m wholly uninterested in the apartheid thing because it’s as a consequence of the occupation.” Destiny uninterested in the main thing wants to focus on other issues.

[@hunterseufert8066]

"History is rather straightforward" Damn, wish I were omniscient.

[@johnhendrickson300]

“You don’t know the details and that’s okay”. Crazy amount of lack of self awareness. Holy shit lol

[@grawlixes]

It was astounding. The man was so out of his depth he STILL hasn’t realized it.

[@tafferski]

Projection

[@Benjamin-vm8di]

This guy is a stand in for the entire Palestinian side... Trying to have a logical debate with the Paleatinians is like having a logical debate with a piece of emotional toast. It will refuse to answer or give emotional arguments not grounded in anything but "ma feelings".

[@alexandermfrei]

As an Israeli, I must confess that this guy has a pretty solid standing. His strategy (or sincere belief) is to completely dismiss nuances and causes of the situation on the ground and to just stubbornly point at the suffering of Palestinian people as well excesses by IDF. The problem, as Destiny points out, that it doesn't bring us anywhere near the solution. He's just repeating "end the occupation, you have no right to defend yourself. End the occupation, it's immoral. End the occupation, it's illegal. You have no right to demand or expect anything." It completely ignores the reason occupation exists and doesn't help anyone, especially Palestinians. If anyone, the beneficiaries of such blind to the reason arguments are Israeli right-wingers like Netanyahu, who's been claiming for decades now that Palestinians are uninterested in recognizing Israel and actually making a peace deal. But it's a very effective line of argument. You just dismiss anything and say "immoral, occupation, death, suffering, stop". Very CenkUygur-y.

[@yaasirkhan9027]

well yeah what else is there, end the fucking occupation. its not that complicated. what do you need, mental gymnastics so you can make yourself feel smart like this corny streamer dude.

[@gonfreecss6002]

The best part is when Destiny cites him the international laws regarding human shields that disprove his argument and he doesn't even acknowledge it, just continues gaslighting Destiny as spouting 'an avalanche of nonsense". One of the most infuriating cases of gaslighting I've ever witnessed. What a buffoon.

[@faceplants599]

@@ade8890you don’t need to provide Zionists any evidence. Whatever Israel is guilty of, they’ll put it on the Palestinians.

[@FlamingMuffinWhore]

@@ade8890 these last few months of Destiny covering this issue has been blunder after blunder. Made me lose alot of respect for him

[@FlamingMuffinWhore]

@@ade8890 he really isn't lol

[@tomsheehy1]

Exactly - and an aggressive buffoon at that. Got found out as being wrong several times ,failed to acknowledge the fact and continued with labelling Destiny as being uninformed. Sad that some people on here don't seem to even be aware of the history and how a debate works. They remind me of Trump supporters.

[@sjappiyah4071]

Precisely lol , like Destiny literally read him the definition of human shields to his face and he still kept yapping as if his own definition was valid…

[@king-rez1423]

Lol you can't argue with people like this😂 idk how destiny puts up with these ignorant people that are so brainwashed and woke they can't even understand clear historical facts😂

[@notsarthakkumar]

Hate the guys who just talk in platitudes to hide their lack of knowledge " oh u don't know " , " I'm gonna teach u " , " that's hilarious ". Like stfu and talk about the thing u guys are talking about .

[@michaelscott70]

Him and Cenk would be good friends.

[@landonvaupel]

Thanks!

[@mrgoal522able]

Response to facts he doesn't like. 1 - Ur facts are just u trying to avoid the real issues. 2 - U don't know what ur talking about. 3 - bad faith 4 - Hilarious

[@AlexisBravoTV]

Remember: Destiny gets roasted for using Wikipedia and yet no one has proven his wiki knowledge useless yet in these debates.

[@DaveFromVh1]

😂😂😂we’ve officially hit “defend Wikipedia laziness” this isn’t looking good folks!!

[@richardhands904]

Name a argument that is wrong @@DaveFromVh1

[@canalphi2673]

thats because low level correct information still better than propaganda lies

[@DaveFromVh1]

@@canalphi2673😂😂what is “low level correct info”?? Info that is “correct” should not be affected by its “level”, be it high or low? What is high level correct info? What is high level incorrect info? Starting to get pretty inane isn’t it?😂😂

[@canalphi2673]

@@DaveFromVh1 low level (im borrowing this definition from programing) is what i would call information that is based on tertiary source or quaternaries sources (but they say it does not exist quaternary?), high level is direct a document for example, lets say if you read what benny morris wrote about a document you are already in secondary source, then what wiki wrote about what benny wrote tertiary source, you can go even further and be what wiki wrote about an article about what benny wrote about a document

[@shriyanmaharaj8562]

As a South African that was alive for the last decade of apartheid, ANC didn’t target civilians and the situation is TOTALLY different to Israel Palestine conflict. If I lived in the region, I definitely would never be able to live in peace with a population whose entire existence is in resisting my presence in the place. Will never get peace when you put your ethnicity or religion first.

[@user-pe5gz4ey7e]

What the f do you think zionism is? My guy. They literaly have a eugenics program comparable to nazi Germany where they pay top dollars for sperm of idf soldieŕs that killed palestinians

[@SupremeUnit]

That part made me glad I'd read a general history of the continent recently. Even with my limited understanding it's clear the guy was entirely off base. Hope he doesn't get much professional work if his grasp on the Arab-Israeli conflict really is just as poor.

[@Rokaize]

From my understanding didn’t the ANC commit sabotage and target military infrastructure? I understand some civilians got killed but they were generally never the target. As far as I understand, the leaders of the ANC, at least stated that killing Afrikaner civilians is counter productive because that would just cause hatred and the flight of them from the country. That the goal was the end of apartheid and racial discrimination in general, and not the genocide of whites. Is this the case? This seems to be how it is from my perspective

[@John-bravooo]

If mandela behaved like the palestinians, there'd still be apartheid. And jews are the majority. Whites were the minority ruling over 90% black majority. And Israel doesnt rule over arabs day-to-day in WB and gaza was essentially an independent islamic statelet. It is the pals who want to return to ottoman-era standards where muslims dominate the non-muslims. This is what drives the conflict but real criticism of islam is essentially forbidden among elites and worldly decision makers

[@ravenmusic6392]

This is just a myth. The ANC's paramilitary wing "spear of the nation" killed almost 100 civilians in its bombing campaigns, which included car and pipe bombs on beaches and in Churches. Yes, the ANC was far more benevolent than Hamas, and perhaps a comparison to the SWAPO insurgency would be better, but the ANC 100% did kill people, and that was a part of its political strategy

[@sueelliott8085]

In citing the argument that Israel banned the IDF’s use of Human Shields, isn’t he undermining his argument that Israel is some kind of evil entity. So individual soldiers continue to do it. If I was faced with a one on one situation, where the only way of protecting my life was to hide behind one of the enemy, I think I would too. It is a little different to setting up military headquarters in a hospital. The first is an instinctive reaction to a life threatening situation, whereas the second requires intent, and is a craven act which puts hundreds of uninvolved people’s lives at risk. As usual Israel is having its hands tied behind its back when trying to defend itself against an enemy who does not even consider the rules of war.

[@sticks1990]

His defeater of ur points was flawless! Next time I get cornered in a debate, I’ll just say “no” and move onto the next point.

[@rickyrecardo4150]

Bro didn't push against any claim. Just said destiny was wrong without anything to back the claim up

[@Dance_JR]

"You don’t know the facts" as giving detailed facts is crazy

[@yaaraamozig4862]

Thank you🙏

[@YoutubeLovesCowards]

So this guy can't concede a single valid point that Destiny made. Apparently the Palestinians are just innocent victims and didn't ever attack Israel. Whenever someone refuses to admit that their side did anything wrong, you shouldn't take them seriously.

[@Wisoo]

"You're wrong because you don't understand the facts, but I don't really understand them either so I can't explain why you are wrong"

[@KoopstaKlicca]

"Yeah okay, let's get into the weeds" ... "You're missing the forest for the trees"

[@souljaboyisbad]

No hes right though. Get into the weeds without missing the big picture

[@Rat-King27]

Fucking kudos to destiny for putting up with him man, I was mentally screaming the most of the time. This man was just spreading misinformation the entire time, and ignored every fact that destiny bought up. Edit: I listened to this a second time, and wow, it's outstanding how every single time Destiny stated a known fact, he said "you don't know what you're talking about" how can someone be this genuinely stupid.

[@js6017]

The tactic of making your argument, followed by "and there is nothing else to say about that" is hilarious. I'm 30 mins in and he's said it like 5 times already haha. Dude is trying to say there's not even a possible opposing position, let alone an opposing position that might be true, so there's no point in trying to refute it or make any other point

[@JM2032]

Why is it that everytime I hear someone make an accusation of debate tactics. It's actually the accuser who is poorly attempting debate tactics

[@TheAxeter]

I've noticed the same thing lately, probably just classic cases of projection. So frustrating when it could've been an interesting topic

[@LightningDoesStrikeThrice]

Andrew Wilson is a classic example lol

[@Jockito]

Accusing someone of debate tactics, is itself a debate tactic. It's like debate tactic inception.

[@davidhoffman2311]

The way this individual conducted himself throughout this entire debate is so frustrating because all it does is shutdown any possibility that this debate had at being productive. Dude should be ashamed of himself.

[@davidhoffman2311]

His behavior stands in stark contrast to the level of productivity that was able to be gained from the debate that Destiny recently had with Ben Shapiro.

[@somejabroni51]

Once he was unwilling to concede he has a woman's name all hope for a good faith discussion was over

[@JustChayse]

August you need to go back and edit the title. This needs quotes around "Expert" lmao

[@andreasesser4641]

The reason why Gaza's population tripled (laziest genocide ever) and the Israeli population in the West Bank increased drastically is the same. Its not new migration. Its both groups not being big fans of birth control.

[@alexthegod2]

nothing more frustrating than someone who is disingenuous saying his opponent is disingenuous. My favorite part is when Omar just refused to accept that part of the blockade was to stop weapons coming in. NO its chips and soda!

[@beetie1308]

Yeah meanwhile weapons pouring into Israel from the west

[@OriMoscovitz]

That's a lie. Not only they aren't blocked from food, but also get aid from Inside Israel literally from tax payers. Have you ever been there?

[@zacharychristy8928]

Talking with people about this IRL is weirdly similar. People just keep telling you that they have all the facts, they just can't actually say what any of those facts are, and only know about the history of the conflict from about 2016 onward.

[@vadsmixinglab11]

As an Israeli talking to people about this (unwillingly but still) for like 20 years, I've yet to stumble upon westerners who actually knew that this didn't start with or because of "75 years of occupation blah blah", but Arabs were actually murdering jews here since the 1910s, even before..so even the ones who saw all the dumb documentaries (are the worst haha) think it all started in 48.. You're absolutely right, and even what they know from 2016 is such basic arab BS

[@zacharychristy8928]

@@vadsmixinglab11 I have yet to meet anyone who has any knowledge of events before like 2015 even, lol

[@NightLightSTDO]

@@vadsmixinglab11 It's crazy though because before the Balfour Declaration in 1917, The Ottoman Empire was actually one of the safest places for Jewish peoples to live and immigrate to. Ottoman rule allowed for Jewish refugees from Russia to immigrate in waves during the late 1800s, and it wasn't until the Zionist project began in the 1900s that Arab Palestinians felt violent tension with Jewish immigrants. Many leaders in those waves of Jewish immigration were militants sent under the British colonial projects after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, and many Jewish settlements drew ire from the Arabs during the Franco-Syrian War for not aligning with the Arab locals and choosing to remain neutral. Obviously, this led to more tension, with battles like Tel Hai erupting between Arabs and Jews, wherein Jewish residents shot and killed anti-french Arab militants. So no, the Jewish immigrants during the waves of Zionist immigration were not just ruthlessly murdered in waves by Arabs, it was very much a two-sided struggle -- one contextualized by British and French colonial mandate. The 1936 revolt also saw thousands of Palestinian Arabs killed by British forces - supported by the Zionist Jewish population - and led to break-offs of Jewish terrorist paramilitary like the Irgun. And since the 1940s, it has been a continuous colonial occupation.

[@GODOURSALVATION.]

80 percent of land ,was owned by the state, formerly the ottomans, and later Britain.

[@Fafarjo]

That guy just came to tell the story. Whenever challenged he just didnt respond and continue to tell his story.

[@cthree0]

Im honestly shocked destiny was as calm as he was throughout this debate. This man was bad faith pretty much off rip and extremely rude basically the entire conversation. Could have matched that energy a little more i feel

[@Ameydusa1]

Over arching principle = narrative Weeds = important details and facts Also beware of ANYONE who claims what the “rest of the world” thinks

[@celewign]

I don’t know why anyone even expects this guy to have a good faith argument. He thinks he’s defending his people, he is not going to be unbiased. There’s no getting through to people like this.

[@TheMMSpirit]

Destiny, 2 things. First, San Remo Conference in the League of Nations produced a treaty that gave the Jewish State ALL the land, that remains international law. Technically, neither the British giving Jewish territory away nor the UN general assembly trying to partition the territory was legal. 2nd There were homeowners in East Jerusalem and Jewish settlements in the West Bank before 1948. Those Jews returned there to those settlements afterwards. Partly, the Israeli courts have tried to avoid "kicking Pals out of their homes" and made the arabs pay reduced rent, but the rent has stopped. Homeowners have been pushing for eviction. In the settlements, Jews have returned to pre 1948 settlements. The entirety of the West Bank is WANTED by the Palestinians, but not legally "theirs".

[@colkestrel]

His entire argument is ignore the facts get into your feels and feel with me. This guy just lives in his feelings and has only ever talked to people in their feels. No ability for rational thought.

[@pscm9447]

I have to say ; I've only been listening to Destiny in the last year and I noticed world history wasn't his strongest suit... but damn, he put the work on it and has become one of the best analyst/debater on this subject. That's quite impressing.

[@Lucas_Aaron]

He's very good at using debate tactics with his wiki-ready talking points.

[@jsalinas2068]

He actually gets triggered everytime destiny wants to get into the details, that's sus

[@Doctorgoodegg]

Nothing about this guy says “expert” or “analyst”. I wish him well.

[@Gummymonkey79]

Gotta love the “Hamas uses human shields because they have no choice” argument

[@giovalladares1022]

Where else are they supposed to put their bases if not hospitals????

[@tnsxpm]

@@giovalladares1022 well bro if they cant operate in hospitals how are they supposed to have an army??? cmon bro

[@22yardsofficial23]

Why not acknowledge the brutal aspect of disproportionate human cost and abandon fighting atleast for the sake of life. Not everyone wants to die or prefers tribalism.​@@giovalladares1022

[@squatch545]

@@giovalladares1022 Source for Hamas has bases in hospitals? And no, not the IDF. Actual verifiable and independent sources.

[@giovalladares1022]

@@squatch545 “Ahmed al-Kahlout, the manager of the Kamal Adnan Hospital in northern Gaza, admitted during an interrogation with Israeli security forces that Hamas used the medical facilities to advance its military operations.” As reported on per Canadian journalist Ari Blaff.

[@AnalyticalHeart]

"I hope my tone isn't condescending" "Violates international law--which i know you don't have much care for" Good god this dude has been contradiction personified throughout this talk. It's almost unbearable to listen to

[@f3erset174]

5 minutes before the dude said destiny doesn’t care much for international law, destiny literally said he doesn’t think we should use international law for Israel Palestine. Is the guy being condescending or just stating facts?

[@TheAxeter]

​@@f3erset174This is going to sound condescending. If you read what you just said again, you should notice that those are two different things. One is not interested in applying international laws (which vary depending on the organization) in this specific case of middle eastern warfare. The other is disregarding international laws in their entirety

[@WanderTheNomad]

​@@Rizzy-bz8enDid the dude say Destiny doesn't care much about international law in this case(being Israel/Palestine)? Or that he doesn't care much about international law in general(as in, most scenarios)?

[@lordbravery4155]

@@WanderTheNomad I thought the point of laws is that we don't get to pick and choose when they are and aren't applicable. so i dont think there is a material difference there.

[@jaybrosbarber2751]

​@@lordbravery4155so state laws are universal?

[@bean-pod]

The bookshelf didn’t help this "analyst"

[@315pasha]

18:23 Palestine can’t submit a request for advisory opinions because they’re not a state. So you can’t say “neither side submitted a request for an opinion” when the side with the actual didn’t have standing.

[@Slyslug]

Its really wild to hit someone with a quote and where you got the quote from and how to get it, but still be told "you just dont know what youre talking about".

[@thetruth6839]

So you are telling me that this guy spent years of his life studying this topic just to get obliterated by a female streamer with ~2 months of research?

[@imperiald3864]

Which female streamer?

[@matthewgalicia1101]

...........Destiny is a girl's name​@@imperiald3864

[@Rjs3611]

Wow this guy was a clueless jackrabbit.

[@samwise4589]

Remember when Israel boosted Hamas to counter the PLO??

[@Azihayya]

This guy was so out of his depth. He clearly had no idea that his views were about to be challenged by someone who knows what they're talking about. He just keeps trying to use Jedi mind tricks to convince Destiny that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

[@andreasesser4641]

Classic lefty mind rot. "Victim" vs "Oppressor" narrative is all that counts,

[@hashem5957]

You are literally delusional. Destiny is a fucking joke of you know anything about the conflict. Go read a book

[@YouJGSousa]

Destiny is a hero for not simply pressing the red button and ending this nonsense. The first time this guy went ad hominem the “debate” was over.

[@Gchildwarrior]

At least we all know this guy is full of bs

[@theliquidguy5748]

Regarding Obesity: Israel 36% Egypt 40% Gaza 23%