Forza Horizon 4 Is Being Delisted... And We've Got Issues

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[@richardhunter9779]

Legalize abandonware

[@5persondude]

Include DLC in that group too. Friendly reminder that Forza Horizon 3 had a cool Hot Wheels-themed DLC that is basically lost to time of you didn’t buy it before it got delisted

[@mondodimotori]

This would be more useful that complaining about phisical vs digital. Sharing abandonware couldn't be possible without digital.

[@hfjtrytry9216]

@@mondodimotori It would still be possible but only through emulation as you can take the data from the disc

[@smugmode]

​@@hfjtrytry9216right.

[@blowmonkey51]

Pretty sure abandonware is legal to have there are sites that distribute old dos games and early cd rom games.

[@marklarz4399]

It's a shame that not many games now re-release the game on discs as "Complete Edition" or "GOTY Edition", with all the DLCs on disc (not codes) like the X-Com 2 Collection on consoles.

[@deathtrooper2048]

That's one of the few things that 2077 did right.

[@mileskosik472]

​@deathtrooper2048 PS5 has a code, it's not on disc

[@communistwookiee4727]

Pissed that Alan Wake 2 won't have all DLC on disc.

[@EyefyourGf]

So you are one of those people huh,you think disc will last how much 10-15 years,it can get scratched boom your game is fked,games are better preserved on old fashioned hdd,but only if they have no drm or are bypased (if you know you know)your game on disc even presuming your disc is ok is trash if it needs activation and servers are gone,do you people think at all?

[@OriginalChrizum]

​@@EyefyourGfOld fashioned hdds don't last any longer than cds though. Only if you're able to copy it it can be reliably preserved.

[@dr.sivavignesh664]

Devs should start developing games like burnout. Real world inspired cars but no licensing required . On top of that they can have the freedom to customise it however they want and add a full damage model. Screw the car manufacturers. They are what's holding back racing games right now.

[@HoveringAboveMyself]

They just don't sell anywhere near as well, part of the appeal is to drive real cars, for example, the entire Burnout franchise doesn't seem to have sold as well as any single black box era Need For Speed.

[@nahoj.2569]

beam ng

[@seanmcbay]

That’s fine for Burnout but a big part of the appeal of Forza is the real cars with all the history and details that comes with them.

[@MansMan42069]

Imagine Burnout 3's crashing gimmick but with modern physics engines taking care of real time deformation.

[@tchitchouan]

Those brandless car games do exist and they don't sell nearly as well as games with licenced car brands.

[@mikeuk666]

Car brand licence issues happens too much in gaming

[@Youraveragegamer_97]

The fact we have to emulate all classic Need for Speed games on PC is annoying

[@outsideredge]

I very much doubt you can make and sell racing games targeting some kind of realism these days without licensed cars. This is an issue that every licensed racing game will eventually encounter, sadly, from Forza to The Crew to Gran Turismo.

[@oo--7714]

@@outsideredgewho would buy a realistic racing game with fake Bugattis. No one.

[@katieadams5860]

This issue doesn't exist with Need for Speed, you can play most of the 2010's need for speeds, yet with forza they get delisted around 5-7 years

[@Youraveragegamer_97]

@@katieadams5860 lmao classic need for speed is 2000s not 2010s

[@LeoDavidson]

Why does this only seem to affect games? You can still buy all the James Bond films, despite so many of them containing product placement of sports cars. Do game publishers just suck at making licence agreements? I'd rather all the cars were fake than games become completely unavailable. (Outrun 2006 is a particularly annoying example.) I also don't understand how this benefits the car companies, given these games are massive adverts for their products and brands. Most of my knowledge and interest in them comes from games (and films and TV).

[@anthonyfillipo]

For movies, they need less car to use and just specific (only choose the ones that relevant to the movie). Sometimes there's also car companies that actually wishes to put the car in movies (by paying) as product placement. For example having car that is used by main character might resulted to more exposure. Which companies are interested. You as car company will be assured that your car will appear in the movie. Game however, you need a lot of cars (case of Forza, hundreds). This made the exposure from so called advertisement lower. The main character is controlled by your choice. This resulted that if the a car is sucks, then people might not use the car which again... reduces exposure. Like what? Why do I need to compete in advertisement of 300 different cars which the player with 50 hours of playtime might not even see and feel my car? Sure my logo might appear more, but I want to advertise this car, not that 90s car which we don't even make that thing anymore. You need to feel you own the car. Which means, they can do whatever they want with it (modification). This comes as risk if the paint job is innapropriate/hurt the company. If there's a global political situation, player can put something to push their believe. Movies, you only watch, not paint. For Games putting **advertisement** as selling point doesn't have much bargaining power to begin with. Even with great deal, they will operate at a loss if the game don't keep selling.

[@Booksds]

I’ve had the same question for a while about why video games seem to be uniquely prone to getting delisted for licensing reasons. I’d bet “you get to drive these real cars” is considered a selling point for the game more than an ad for the car, whereas “James Bond drove this car” is considered more of an ad for the car than a selling point for the film. That’s just speculation on my part, though, and I’d love to be corrected if anyone has more info!

[@federicomasetti8809]

Not only videogames, but toys (I'm thinking about Lego, for example) and collectors model cars, or radio controlled models, even just the body shell. And car games don't just have licensing issues with cars manufacturers and music, but with literally EVERYTHING that exists in real life, be it a sponsor, a race track, a car parts brand, everything! Once the license expires, it is gone, because, from what I understand, if you ask to renew a license, the lawyers of such brands are going to make you pay more and more and more. If you think about the old Gran Turismo, or Need for Speed games, from the first 2 PlayStation consoles, they didn't have anything added to the games after release. The publishers "just" needed to pay for the licenses once and that's all, until the next game. Now, with all the digital content added with the time and the prolonged life span of some games, compared to the past releases, they keep signing new licenses contracts all the time. Specifically, games like Gran Turismo and Forza, that have tons of cars and show tons of brands on screen, must be one true hell for the lawyers. The only solution I can see, but I'm sure not a single brand would accept it, is to make licensing contracts where the brand gets a percentage of each sale, instead of giving the license out for a specific amount of money. They want to be sure of the payback of giving such licenses. If a game is a disaster, in terms of sales, they basically gave their license away for free. For all the other kinds of videogames it's more like a "does the company still exist?" type of thing, because, on console, sooner or later they are going to re-release old games, they just do it when they see enough requests that will tell them it's time to make money out of them again, IMHO

[@TheJohhnyE]

It affects everything. Go try and find a current copy of the movie Dogma. The Child's Play series went through 3 box sets before they finally were able to have a box set with all the movies in it because of licensing issues. Friday the 13th just had a big problem of distribution of anything with its name because of licensing and ownership issues. Hellraiser had a similar thing where Clive barker had to go though years of lawsuits to get his own series back and not be held hostage anymore.

[@LeoDavidson]

@@TheJohhnyE IDK about the other films but the situation with Dogma is different, IMO. Those are licencing issues entirely within the companies that produced and distributed the film themselves, where a bunch of companies are failing to cooperate or just not interested in re-releasing something at all. (As is the case with many old games: The people who own them COULD re-release them but choose not to.) OTOH, short-term licences for music or cars or similar things inside the product which then predictably expired now prevent sale of games that are only a few years old, even if the people who made, published and distributed the game would like to continue selling them. Both situations are unfortunate, of course.

[@markwebster4996]

The disc does not include the DLC or patches. Sadly this game is heavily digital dependent

[@alvzcizzler]

But you still get all that no? upon inserting the disc and updating the game if you own the DLC that should too right?

[@MSUHitman]

@@alvzcizzlerCorrect. But you can’t buy the season pass separately now & the DLC cars not part of that pass are already gone.

[@SkyScourgeGod]

Luckily the entire base game of FH4 is still playable directly from the disc even if you have no internet connection. You'll miss the DLC and the patches but the game is honestly pretty solid even in it base disc form. FH3 also enjoys this advantage so we're not short on ways to play a decent Horizon game. FH5 on the other hand? You can't even boot the game from the disc at all without downloading half of it from the internet. Same thing goes for Halo Infinite, Dead Rising 3, Starfield and the most recent Forza Motorsport. All Microsoft published titles. There's plenty of other great games still complete on the disc for Xbox, but the number of Microsoft-published titles that are not is honestly worrying... :(

[@WilliumBobCole]

The saddest part to me is the loss of the Lego DLC :(

[@Timic83tc]

And that will be lost even when you have the disc. So annoying

[@Dosnmeda]

If digital distribution is to prevail, it has to emulate all features of physical media and that includes ownership. You need to be able to swap, trade and resell your games with other users. We need a second hand market for Digital Licenses.

[@HelFrostKara]

Probably needs to be a sort of reevalution of like digital consumer protection or something like that (legally speaking) but given many politicians personally witnessed the fall of Rome and love corpos, I'm not optimisitic that will happen 😞

[@AJ-xv7oh]

That's the absolute last thing these corporations are going to give you.

[@pixeljauntvr7774]

While that would all be nice and dandy. Kinda defeats the entire incentive for publishers to move to a digital only platform.

[@LRon-ef7ni]

@@AJ-xv7ohit’s exactly what corps do not want.

[@carlbisenius9077]

Honestly would be an actually good real world application of NFTs, but no one is doing that. The digital game could be sold secondhand and devs could still get a cut even

[@gonzalomarsilli5741]

I still have Driveclub with all those cars...

[@mowglippml]

When they sign licence deals the developers/ publishers obviously know how long they'll last for. I feel like they should at least have an obligation to share this information, if not plan for post-licence access

[@ckat609]

With games coming out on disc half-baked... owning the disc doesn't do much either. Also, needing an account to play some single player games, like prince of persia, even if you buy the disc, it won't help. Sure, you get something you can hold, but if you can't play it there is not point or, if you can, it's a bad experience because everything is broken. I guess we're screwed. I wish people would just stop buying shit for a few months. Companies would shit their pants when they see their stock tank. Then they would know who really has the power. I don't see that happening, though. So frustrating!

[@reyjimenz]

You're delusional.

[@rsolsjo]

"If we stop buying cars, maybe we can go back to riding horses" is basically the current situation. The kids don't care.

[@oo--7714]

That is stupid, when I bought forza 2 from the shop, the it had an online update with all the bug fixes on top of it.

[@secondchance6603]

@@rsolsjo LMFAO!! What a stupid analogy but hey, you do you.

[@Gigantemanatee]

Welp, there it is folks, in a nutshell, you were asked nicely to go all digital now you’re being forced into it by the back door because you didn’t comply! 😂 Have fun with your new way of not owning anything you pay for, it doesn’t really belong to you… remember, things never go back to the way they were it just evolves into something else.

[@djpquickplays1244]

Maybe a solution would be that written in the licensing agreement, for consumer protection, the license must be either ongoing, as no newer cars or music for these games are being released anyway, or after the license agreement expires, the future sales would be split between all parties...

[@linux_for_noobs]

I literally bought series x to play older forza horizons that are not on steam and are pain to emulate

[@deathtrooper2048]

Especially since FH2 is only on Xbox one (the best version at least).

[@MSUHitman]

@@deathtrooper2048And Forza Horizon 1, the only one with a true single-player campaign, is the only 360 era Forza that is BC.

[@extremepayne]

*sigh* if only we had reasonable copyright lengths. Revert to the 1909 US law of 28 years after publication or something. Even if companies don’t publish ROMs, distribution of them would become legal within a reasonable timeframe. The community could legally preserve games. As it stands (at 95 years after publication), the youngest of us here will be in our 70s when the NES generation starts to go public domain

[@blowmonkey51]

At that point just Pirate F Nintendo and their draconian ways. They aint making a sale or losing money anyway. Especially on retro games the used market sells for 500+ a copy

[@gaoyukuan]

Even Ace Combat 6 is delisted due to aircraft licensing. Just absurd.

[@Shadowespeon17]

The answer to this problem is that companies should not collaborate with any third party that can render the sale or distribution of their products out of their hands.

[@AshleysBallistics]

"If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing!" - Sun Tzu

[@mikeuk666]

Delisting usually means you cannot make a new purchase of it due to licensing but if already bought you can redownload it.

[@lambasted6886]

​@mikeuk666 I love seeing pirates trying to find ethical loopholes to justify their behavior.

[@marsan9612]

They actually did something amazing by giving all the add-ons and expansions to people who owned the game already on Xbox and gave the game for free to those who purchased at least 1 add-on.

[@KamiKoroshi_]

​@@lambasted6886 He isn't lying. Keep defending billion dollar corporations. I dont give a damn about them. Piracy is king.

[@lambasted6886]

@KamiKoroshi_ Have some integrity and at least NOT WANT it. You taking it means it has some inherent value. People with backbone stop interacting with things they don't believe in. Just call yourself a thief and stop the robinhood LARP. This thinking is media brainrot. If you really wanted to take away the power of these corporations, go outside and play a sport, garden, cook, write, or draw. That's something you can actually control without lieing to yourself.

[@tomskst-pierre6981]

You've missed the story of The Crew game - it's been delisted and you cannot play it at all, even if you owned it. Criminal!

[@sanctanox]

Unfortunately the majority of gamers don't care. It's horrible. Same with movies. Interesting to see how people react in 10 years when componies just ignore the digital library of customers because the company goes bancrupt or just shuts down the servers.

[@seebarry4068]

They do it because there is zero pushback. The game is old and they know most will be on the current version, so they can get away with it. Corporations always push past the line to see how far they can go.

[@freedustin]

"Zero pushback" citation needed. there are several pushbacks daily, they all just get called "illegal" and moved on from.

[@secondchance6603]

@@freedustin "there are several pushbacks daily, they all just get called "illegal" and moved on from." Citation needed.

[@seebarry4068]

Zero pushback that they take any real notice of. They ignore you. Happy?

[@JackTheBeast88]

No pushback will be enough if not enough people buy it to justify renewing licences

[@freedustin]

@@secondchance6603 They literally call it "piracy." You have heard of it many times already. You never heard of "private servers?" There are several MMORPGs you can run at home now, even newer stuff like Genshin and several recent versions of WoW. There's tons of pushback, you just aren't aware I guess.

[@Luizanimado]

Is so weird that they have to pay the car companies to get the cats there, I always imagine it would be the other way around, but whatever

[@weust2672]

I always notice the talk about a version including DLC, but never the patches/updates on a game. A disc version won't have the 20GB day one patch, for example.

[@lutherh6090]

It won’t, but as long as the console still connects to the internet it usually will still download the patches/updates. Better than being stuck on version 1.0 forever.

[@davidaitken8503]

There is a simple solution to this problem. Consumers need to stop caring about stupid and meaningless car licenses in games. At the end of the day it is nothing more than a name and logo. Everything from the Cruisn' series to Horizon Chase Turbo has plenty of awesome sports cars in them. You know what they are. I know what they are. The games never actually refer to them by their actual names though.

[@euphorah]

release final stripped-down GOG-style DRM-FREE version removing any content they couldn't acquire lifelong licenses, planning this from very early stages of development hope xbox’s recently created preservation team starts an initiative like this to demonstrate how economically viable it could become across the entire industry envision up to three planned versions; original full release, stripped-down (when licenses expire) & stripped-down drm-free (within pre-set timeframe 10, 15, 20 years or commit to automatic release before there is no longer any means to purchase or offer them for redownload at which point digital receipts serves as our license to source from wherever

[@wolfbrigade8042]

It's also scary how less and less games actually have everything on disc even with the complete editions/game of the year editions and whatnot. Cyberpunk 2077 on ps5 for example only has the base game on the disc and a measly download code for the dlc. Meanwhile the Xbox version got everything on disc (for some reason). With the new Shadow of the Erdtree edition of Elden Ring it's the same. It also just has a code for the expansion even tho FromSoftware games traditionally had everything on disc in their complete/goty editions.

[@bellissimo4520]

Yes... this!!! Very bad example: There was a series of "Hitman" games released over the course of a year or two, as episodes, which would then together make up the entire game. It was also declared early on that after the final episode was released (online), they would finally create a Bluray with the entire game. I thought "hey that's great, so if they create the disc about a year after everything has been released, and patched many times, surely the disc version will be super-complete and not even require a day-1 patch!" Then I got the Bluray, popped it in my PS4, and it started downloading a multi-GB patch immediately. This is how lazy devs seem to have become. The sad truth I take away from this is that physical media gaming is almost dead already. All the discs still truly give you is ownership - but without the servers with patches being available, those games may become unplayable if you try them again 20, 30 years later. I mean, how long until Sony shuts down all PS3 related servers entirely, and you won't be able to download any patches for PS3 games anymore. A game like the first "Assassin's Creed" is basically unplayable in its disc release form. Piracy is literally the only way in such cases.

[@emile5921]

This is misinformation that you often find online unfortunately. Xbox yes is like this most of the times. But PS4/5 and Switch games are fully on the physical media 9 times out of 10. You can play those offline. Doesitplay tracks the data for anyone interested.

[@wolfbrigade8042]

@@emile5921 Yes we know that. Most games are still complete on disc on ps4 and ps5. I was talking about the most recent "complete editions" that often only have a code for their very big expansions (like Cyberpunk and Elden Ring as I said). Usually complete editions and game of the year editions used to have all the dlc on disc but that gets more rare these days.

[@emile5921]

@@wolfbrigade8042 depends on the publisher. Sony usually makes new builds for the GOTY games like it did with Forbidden West. CDPR and Bandai wanted to skip some costs I guess and cheaped out on us.

[@wolfbrigade8042]

@@emile5921 Yea unfortunately. I fear that's gonna be the norm from here on out. I guess the time of "true complete editions" is over now... Hopefully I'm wrong tho and Cyberpunk and Elden Ring are just slip ups (kinda doubt it tho). Cyberpunk is especially infuriating because Xbox somehow got the dlc on disc while Playstation only gets a code. Not sure whose fault that was.

[@sophia_comicart]

The history an of entire art form, the work of hundreds of thousands of artists over decades, destroyed for corporate profits. Who are the real pirates? We need an impartial third body to manage this stuff or law to stop them destroying work.

[@MC-bh8ph]

100% agree

[@sunnyssundries]

A big issue are online-only games, which you can buy physically, but you can‘t use them any longer, because the servers are gone. Like Mercenaries & Mercenaries 2 from Pandemic.

[@Balc0ra]

Ferrari are notorious with regards to their brand. Outrun as mentioned is a perfect example of it. And when you have a few car brands as picky as they are on top of it. Having that game even come back years from now is unlikely sadly

[@RageRaccoon]

I'm just never buying a driving game with licensed cars again. These companies and manufactures cannot copyright the body shape of these cars. All they can do it protect the branding, if you don't put the manufacturer's badge on the car you don't have to deal with all the licensing headaches

[@gnoclaude7945]

MS is the best though. They let you know way in advance, put it on 80% discount, and give free keys to everyone who owns dlc. Yes it sucks but you have time to buy it. I own every Forza Horizon since they notified us way in advance.

[@rashidhumine]

Shame on anyone buying these Digital Only Console, because of you, these Companies are shutting down games.

[@AdamMac27]

If delisted games are commonly games which have license agreements a clause in the licensing contract could be implemented to allow a game to continue to be sold after the license expires if the sales have returned enough to the IP holder. Or if the sales are so low that a % per sale is given to the IP holder rather than the game developer having to renew a multi-million-dollar contract to keep the game on the shelves. It seems strange that one of the most expensive games ever created, Marvel's Avengers, got de-listed so soon after its release despite the game costing hundreds of millions of dollars to make. To lose access to being able to purchase and own Forza 4 and Marvel's Avengers seems a shame. Personally, I believe a much greater concern is not owning digital content once it's purchased.

[@mrsmilee]

in a future where all games are streamed this problem multiplies by orders of magnitude.

[@elbowsout6301]

I have a solution... Give us the ability to sell our used digital copies on the digital storefronts. I won't be playing my digital copy of Driveclub VR again so let me sell it to someone that wants it. Maybe let the digital store take a 5% cut of whatever I sell my used games for.

[@Choom89]

I'll never forget Dead Star... first game for me that disappeared WAY too soon, it was an amazing game.

[@MrVoltySquirrel]

10:25 Just some context, I don't know why this hasn't happened yet, but apparently sometime this month they are putting the game on deep discount on the Xbox store in line with the current steam discount. additionally, they said that if an active game pass user bought DLC for the game, they're supposedly sending out keys for the game to them.

[@rsolsjo]

July 14th

[@kingotime8977]

I play on both PC and the console, but if the future for consoles is all-digital with their closed systems, then I will never buy a console again.

7:56 Legislation. It's the only real solution right now IMO. It could be mandated that when a console manufacturer stops supporting a piece of hardware they would need to open up their consoles. If a game is to be delisted purely for licensing issues we could mandate the publisher to release a version of the game without licensed content. If devs know this beforehand they would develop the game in such a way that it'd be playable without licensed content when that time comes. Obviously there are flaws in these ideas but I think if legislators think about this thoroughly we can come up with something good that works for everyone. The problem is that this will never happen because tech companies have the legislators in their pockets 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@wimpycorpse]

I dont know about anyone else, but microsoft have goven me a free copy of the digital version. They said because I supported them buying the dlc they have given me the game code.

[@TheCarloalberto95]

I always say that publishers should make a game open source if they dont use it in any way for like 5-10 years

[@Lola__Cola]

I just bought the game £17 for the ultimate version pretty good deal, also this is why devs should do what Burnout did just use concept cars. No licenses required

[@ld9387]

Having fictional cars only is the reason why I don't enjoy GTA for cars. Fictional cars aren't nearly as exciting

[@TheOne214]

if buying is not owning than pirating is not stealing.

[@kendokaaa]

I'm stealing that

[@tomskst-pierre6981]

Imagine some great old movies delisted, or old books DELISTED, or music DELLISTED... Licenses my bottom, are we going to see The Fast and The Furious movie delisted? Hate it!:((((((

[@TheKaizokuman]

You would think they would put it on sale just like steam. $20 for the Ultimate sounds good.

[@embracerodusk2537]

The big problem is you can buy a disc, but good luck getting the dlc which is usually half the content in these games.

[@pimkapitz]

Customers should be able to sell and with that transfer ownership of their copies of digital media in a digital marketplace. That way, a company can decide to stop selling a game, but people who own a copy of said game would still be able to sell it to a new owner. Just like in “the real world” an (old) game can become rare but won’t disappear altogether.

[@Dbentzjr]

I was pissed, and I mean PISSED when I went and bought Forza Horizon 3, ULTIMATE EDITION, and did not get all the dlc with it AND I was UNABLE TO BUY THE REMAINING DLC. This is exactly why piracy is legit. If this can happen to one game, it can happen to ANY game. This is happening to games that haven't been out all that long, they don't bring in enough money so the devs and publishers abandon the project and consumers are just screwed. It is what it is. Where did Defiance go? Defiance 2050? Its a harsh reality. If we allow preorders and then allow dlc after the game is released, then we allow stuff like this to go on, unlike back in the 80s and 90s where games had to actually be finished works before they could even be sold.

[@5persondude]

I’m still kicking myself for not getting FH3 with that Hot Wheels DLC. Now that game is basically lost forever except for Xbox One physical copies, so no DLC with it…

[@altaafsheik5725]

Same by the time I got a gaming PC Forza horizon 3 was delisted

[@charmcitygames6815]

​@5persondude you can game share with someone who has the dlc already & you'll be good to play it

[@carlosmagnomacieira8210]

Man, I played it pirated...search fitgirl, there is a way...i used a brand new email thatI made just for the game of course because the game requires that you kind log in and I was afraid of getting banned...played through it all, no problem... I tried to buy the game before of course but it wasnt available anywhere...

[@MSUHitman]

Buyer beware this is happening now with FH 4. 1/2 the DLC cars are NOT in the digital UE of the game.

[@MSUHitman]

FH 4 disc is climbing in price post announcement; the last 2 tracked CIB sales on EBay via Price Charting US are $25 & $28. I got a factory sealed copy for $20 in March.

[@eamonndoyle4753]

On console, all you need is to have a server running that will validate your purchase and allow you to run the game, you can store that game locally to keep.

[@thezx5795]

Devs of car games should just stop trying to be super legitimate about the car licenses and just make parodies of the super expensive cars

[@michaeljamesm]

the car companies should get over themselves and allow licenses indefinitely for each game

[@Thomaticus]

​Better licensing deals is the solution to all of this. As long as the game is being sold, all parties should be compensated. Games like movies should not have a limited sell time.

[@ZeerakImran]

The fact that this requires a license in the first place is offensive. We don’t pay for sight. I don’t have to pay to see someone else’s car or their drawing of a car.

[@brandonlee7382]

I think the way they gonna get around this to make games as a service to where they make a game just like the new forza motorsport and keep updating it till the end of the franchise. I think the next forza horizon will be the last because they can't improve it anymore and each new hardware will make graphics look better. We will see new maps like Japan and other countries. If you think about it forza horizon 4 and 2 are very similar just 4 has new features and changes in lighting. They can change image quality in future games without having a new game. Like how fornite got better graphics

[@oo--7714]

@@brandonlee7382 it is like sports games except with more effort. I doubt they will, change their current status.

[@criminalcuteness3952]

I feel like the racing game genre is at a severe lack of creativity. I am sick and tired of seeing yet another racing game boasting about its 100+ real licensed cars and super realistic graphics. We need more whacky creative FUN racing games that aren't afraid to experiment with ridiculous game modes. This obsession with real licensed cars is what is killing this genre.

[@j377yb33n]

exactly, gta5 online lead to a lost decade of arcade racers that weren't phone or kart based

[@lifespanofafry1534]

For real for real. All these forza type of games… They start you off with too many things to do, too many options, no sense of progression, you can buy your way to the top.

[@InvidiousIgnoramus]

I've realized recently I actually have a lot of delisted games in my Steam library. It's pretty crazy to see.

[@robertt9342]

The trick is to have better licensing agreements where it’s in perpetuity if the updates are only operability and not visual upgrades or other improvements.

[@Szydelski]

Nobody interested. Car companies wants to earn money. Game developers want to sell next, newer games. It’s an pleasant excuse for them.

[@darkcaste]

Realistic license agreements, recognising that as fewer people play the game, the license has less value. But I'm guess that's just stating the obvious, maybe they've already been refused percentage based licensing.

[@pedrofranco5665]

They announced the delisting at the same moment they delisted all the dlcs. Now the Hot Wheels Legends Car Pack, for example, is forever lost. Playground Games should have given us some time after the announcement to buy the remaining dlcs.

[@TheKaizokuman]

The ultimate edition is still available so I guess they want people to buy it whole.

[@maximusalpha5630]

​@@TheKaizokumanThat's true but isn't Hot wheels a standalone DLC I don't think it was included in the ultimate edition.

[@pedrofranco5665]

@@TheKaizokuman Yeah but the ultimate edition doesn't include the Hot Wheels Legends Car Pack.

[@TheKaizokuman]

@@pedrofranco5665 oh, boo.

[@fred420]

It's pretty sweet that Xbox is sending out free codes for the full game if you played it on GP and purchased any DLC, even if it was only a couple bucks for a car. That's very consumer friendly.

[@malcolmar]

Really? I did not know that.

[@aeolussvichi7680]

Only the standard version of the game though I believe. If you had any dlc with the game, do we know it’ll work with the game they are sending to ppl?

[@nervusbreakdown]

@@malcolmar That is because This guy on the video didn't even mention it. WHICH IS A BIG PART!

[@fred420]

@@aeolussvichi7680 GP always has the base games as standard. If you do the upgrade in GP for 30 bucks to the premium edition then that is the edition you will get. when it's delisted.

[@fred420]

@@nervusbreakdown yeah, doesn't surprise me. You got to watch the media.. Especially since IGN bought DF out and Sony owns part of that company..

[@adroharv5140]

the real trouble is that a lot of people have a here and now mentality so they don't tend to think of in the future where they may want to play said game. Some actually don't care anyway because they don't even play their games more than the once which is fine but plenty are just oblivious to the surprise waiting for them and they'll wish they'd paid more attention when it dawns on them what's happened

[@Lucromis]

Piracy is a service problem.

[@stealthninja4299]

Imagine not being able to watch a James Bond film because the 'license' for whichever Aston Martin that appears in the film ran out. It just wouldn't happen so why does it happen to games?

[@Swisshost]

Because the real cars to drive are the selling point, of a racing game. The same logic don't work on movies. Do you only watch the movie because James Bond drive a BMW?

[@stealthninja4299]

@@Swisshost If that's really the reason then why do music tracks also get removed from games but not from films? Stop defending companies from acting shitty and kicking game preservation in the teeth. Especially Microsoft who have absolutely no excuse for this and are one of the richest companies on the planet

[@Swisshost]

@@stealthninja4299 It happens there too, for example the TV series cold case was never on CD. Because it has only the music rights for normal TV. Maybe you don't understand the topic here, car companies are the "bad guys" in this video not MS.

[@stealthninja4299]

@@Swisshost Of course I understand the 'topic'. I'm worried about the future of console gaming if it goes all digital. Especially when a company as big as Microsoft delists a game that's 5 and a half years old because they can't be bothered to renew licences but keep increasing the price of Game Pass every year

[@Swisshost]

@@stealthninja4299 The hard true is, digital only is the future. There is a reason why physical is dead on PC since 10 years. Atleast on PC you have the game forever, it has a open system.

[@hotdogmanful]

The issue I have is then taking the severs offline. I just finished Horizon 1 and almost done with Horizon 2 but can't do anything with the multi-player. Also downloading Horizon 2 was a pain, even though u have the disc I had to download it through the game hub thing

[@drift180x]

That’s the problem with using licensed real world cars, especially if the game has lots of cars in it, that’s a lot of licenses that need renewing and that can be costly. It’s better to do what Ridge Racer or Burnout or GTA do, use original fictional cars that look similar to the cars they’re based on.

[@Tom-jw7ii]

With Forza, the licensed cars are like 90% of the game’s appeal. It’s the Madden of racing games.

[@DubsBrown]

RIP Ace Combat Infinity. Even the paid offline Single Player campaign was removed due to server log in requirements.

[@Solms86]

console jailbreaking is a great way to preserve. my PS3 is loaded with games that are effectively abandoned. it takes some time to happen though

[@Coroice]

The solution I'd propose (short of a complete rework of copyright laws that makes things actually sane for consumers, and actually complete physical releases for consoles) is: make deals way ahead of time to define per-copy cuts for each of the involved parties past the original "expected" exploitation window. Either that, or somehow individual per-copy deals to access the content, notably for DLC. If the problem is that the publisher is paying in bulk for licences and can't keep the game or DLC on sale unless they renew all of them, and brands handing out their licences want their money, then it would make sense to me that each copy from that point on directly gives the latter money (instead of them being paid upfront). Maybe that's idealistic. But I've seen way too often games or DLC being pulled from sale because of licenced content and thought "this is stupid, if the problem is them not getting money then set things up so they can still get it while keeping the product available for consumers". The other other option would be that none of the parties involved get money, but I don't think huge corporations driven by profit are ready for that even if it's technically free advertising.

[@gamingedition5165]

Big external drive to have all phsycisl games and dlc installed allows me to play most of my collection offline apart from series x games that require ssd obviously.

[@akaimizu1]

Take note, all the digital games you bought, even as far back as the Wii, can still be redownloaded. So you don't have to have them already installed. Initially the entire Wii shop was taken down at the announced time, but they brought it back just for Redownload capability. I tested that recently. You just need to have bought them in the first place. It's still not great for people who still want to buy them on those systems, but they can redownload all that they bought with very very few exceptions. (In game download packs internally in rare instances like the old Monster Hunter games, even though, in the case of Monster Hunter, those were all free to download)

[@usul573]

Does the Wii or Wii U still have online functionality?

[@akaimizu1]

@@usul573 Not officially. The Wii's original online functionality was tied to Gamespy and they went out of business which lead to Wii Online going down. The Wii still has basically a version of the Wii Shop that just allows you to get redownloads of software you previously purchased. The Wii U's official online is down (along with 3DS), but the online was resurrected by users. There is a fairly easy step guide to getting your machine on Pretendo, which is a running online service that works with Wii U and 3DS. It's still a work of progress, with a growing list of supported games, starting with the more popular online games for the system. For instance: With the Pretendo service, you can still roll online with Splatoon 1 on the Wii U.

[@strykah92]

@@usul573 to redownload purchased content? Yes.

[@erelpc]

We seriously need a movement to abolish copyright laws.

[@turrican4d599]

I crave for a rerelease of Outrun 2006 and Afterburner Climax!!!

[@Gigantemanatee]

Coming soon to a Yakuza arcade near you… maybe 😅 probably the only way it’ll happen now.

[@BrianWright70]

It should be added that Microsoft have sent out a free key to a number of users, me being one.

[@BrianWright70]

@@pedrofranco5665 that doesn't negate what I said

[@joesterling4299]

Behind preservation, there is a serious issue, which John mentioned, but is not the focus of this clip. That is, limited licensing of parts of a permanent product. This should not be possible. I'm all for IP owners, such as car makers and music artists, to get recompensed for the use of their IP in games. But once they've agreed to allow it, it should be permanent. It's fine for them to get royalties on additional copies of games sold, but there shouldn't be a never-ending threat of license revocation. I'd like to see this topic discussed in greater detail.

[@deathtrooper2048]

8:26 It's been on gamepass for the past 5 years (or more)

[@DustoMan]

Since the beginning of gamepass.

[@cun7us]

The same thing happened to FH3 and probably the others too. They need to stop using licenced music, that's the main reason they get delisted. Or better yet, allow us to use a streaming app in game like Deezer so we can play our own music and then everyone's happy.

[@GamingowyTata]

With every next game release, we should always ask about licencing period.

[@technicallyme]

Hmmm this is something I’m struggling with. The first software I wrote out of college is being replaced and that was that was hours/months/years of my life 😢

[@eamonndoyle4753]

Car companies are the ones who should be paying game developers to have their cars displayed in their games, especially the popular ones like Forza, after all, the game is promoting these cars to 10s of thousands, if not, 100s of thousands of potential customers.

[@morphanok6932]

Exactly my thought. If I was the owner of a car company Id be like hell yea use my car!!

[@mondodimotori]

You buy a car no matter what. You buy a racing game also based on the car list. Car companies hold the knife in this scenario

[@ItzMeWill]

@@mondodimotori it would still be free advertisement ..yea you buy a car no matter what, but it's not just one car brand out there. you have so many options to choose from. That's why advertisements exist. That's why companies pay money for product placements in movies. That's including car brands

[@caliorbustarika3310]

Not really. You can't make Forza Horizon 5 without branded cars. But you can totally sell cars without a video game promoting your car. It's way more profitable to get money from Microsoft and using THAT money to advertise through more proper methods. Let's be honest, nobody is buying a Corolla because they drove it on FH5 and liked it.

[@carlosmagnomacieira8210]

I played forza horizon 3 with all the dlcs( including the hot wheels one) last year...And I downloaded it pirated of course because there was no way to buy it...piracy is legit my friends, if the game is too expensive after years or of is delisted, I pirated it.

[@zachsteiner]

You gotta be fucking kidding me. That means I’m gonna have to hurry up and cough up the money for FH4 on the MS store if I want to keep my save data from when I use to play it on game pass. Ugh.

[@greenlightgaming4242]

Just happy they preserved Halo Halo the classic halos with a Master Chief collection

[@Nintenboy01]

what's also sad is they never fixed the checkerboard graphical artifacts in FH3

[@japhetaguirre4880]

Bought the complete edition on Steam last year for less than 10USD. I love the James Bond cars.

[@zwerker]

They'll have to pry my physical copies of Forza Horizon 1, Test Drive Unlimited, Outrun2, Outrun2006, and more, from my COLD, DEAD HANDS.

[@markwebster4996]

Keep brining it up John! This is an issue and you are right to bring it up

[@NeroVingian40]

Picking up on the trend that Xbox and PS going fully digital, how long do you think Nintendo is going to hold on to their cartridge system (or whatever physical media system they could develop in the future)?

[@mikeuk666]

Probably another 10yrs with Switch 2

[@NeroVingian40]

@@mikeuk666 I guess that means until the Switch 3? 10 years into the future? Lol. I would really hope for the Switch 2 to have backward compatibility though. Nintendo holding on to physical media is great, but their choice of using cartridges still pose some problems imo. I wish they stuck on to using CDs like on the GameCube-Wii U era.

[@gamingedition5165]

​@@NeroVingian40 you do realise with a disc drive it would be impractical?

[@anomalix]

Which headphones is the guy on the lower left using?

[@ContentHouseFilms]

This doesn’t feel that different to when a physical product runs out of stock of an item. This seems to be a licensing issue as you said. It happens. I’m fine with this as long as they don’t take away the ability to play the game from people who have already bought it.

[@EbayDK2K]

Whats missing on console are "game of the year" / "ultimate" disc editions containing all DLC and additional content - or at least the right to download these. The rally addon for Forza Horizon 1 is for example gone forever...

[@pags1981]

The same happened to Project Cars 😑

[@user-lv6rn9cf8m]

I mean the only solution is better legislation. But that won't happen.

[@j.a.styles547]

even you buy the disc ver the DLC's will be gone.

[@Trench303]

Just bought the all dlc version

[@SkyScourgeGod]

One thing I have noticed very recently is that Microsoft has basically quit trying to put the full game onto any physical version of a title that they publish themselves. Forza Horizon 5, Halo Infinite, Dead Rising 3, 2023's Forza Motorsport, Starfield and Microsoft Flight Simulator have little to no game data on the actual disc, making them useless in any non-connected environment. Other companies, most notably EA, Ubisoft and Activision, have been doing this with a lot of their bigger franchises like Call of Duty, Hogwarts Legacy, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora and nearly any major sports title. It's very worrying to say the least. Luckily, lots of other 3rd party publishers and indie devs continue to put out great games that are fully playable from the disc alone and even older 1st party titles usually don't have this issue. Forza Horizon 3 and 4 are both fully playable from the data on the disc, albeit without DLC of course. Halo 5 (for anyone that actually likes that game) also has no issues playing from the disc and 3rd party devs like CDPR have re-released titles like Cyberpunk 2077 with the polished base game and DLC (in the case of the Xbox at least) fully on the disc. In that sense, we're not totally screwed... yet.

[@Nazraq04]

No digital future for me. I won't buy a home console that's download only.

[@gamingedition5165]

Yup exactly.

[@Snoy_Fly]

I guess you won't consider PC either since that's digital only.

[@Nazraq04]

@@Snoy_Fly PC is different. I buy games on Steam and GOG.

[@Swisshost]

You mean the 1.0 version which is broken, so you need to download the 10GB day 1 patch. CD is useless today for games.

[@eberwolf24]

I prefer physical media for the reasons metioned in the video. Once there is no physical media I rather play on PC than on consoles. There is better ways to preserve games digitally on PC than on console.

[@Komorur]

How to preserve a game with unnecessary always online mode forced into it?

[@rsolsjo]

The only viable way is for fans to create their own servers/peer to peer after the fact. Not likely to happen very often.

[@thoreberlin]

If it's unnecessary the way is to patch the online function out. Would love to have this for eve valkyrie to at least be able to fly the few single player missions again with better VR hardware.

[@immortaldragon7980]

I know it's not a solution and the future of physical media looks grim, but I will keep buying physical games for as long as possible, it saddens me to think that there's going to be a point when physical games are just going to be available as collector editions and be sold at premium prices.

[@ld9387]

10:08 Forza Motorsport 3 had this. It was called the Collectors Edition. This is pretty much the only solution for console games

[@Blacklist91]

Forza Horizon 4 problem is that Forza Horizon 5 exists.😂🤣

[@MadCoLabs]

So glad I still have Horizon 3 from the microsoft store on PC and can download it on any of my PC's, just started playing through it again its great

[@robinwright531]

8:42 l e g I s l a t i o n

[@ryutenmen]

1) I just brought standard FZ4 disc for 9$ 2) meanwhile the digital standard FH4 costs 48$. 3) the digital Ultimate FH4 costs 80$. Fuck MS and also anyone's digital.