Did Doctor Strange 2 MISLEAD? - Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness Spoiler Review

The Doctor Strange sequel promised fans of the MCU a literally Multiverse of Madness. However with only a handful of alternate realities visited and the inclusion of the illuminati so are saying it falls short of expectations. HOWEVER, it could also be argued that outside of all of the Sam Raimi lead project does a lot of things right. Anyways this is our review from our podcast The Weekly Planet. Thanks for listening!
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#Marvel #SpiderMan #NoWayHome

[@Klopsfett]

It most certainly didn't mislead nearly as much as YOU DID JAMES, misleading all of us with those purple lasers from that pyramid. Don't even think for a second we'll forget about that TERRIBLE act of deception!

[@dylanmahaffey8920]

He promised us!

[@Alllex]

I've never felt so betrayed.

[@MuskiewisAskiew69420]

I never needed a purple laser more!!! Just to be destroyed lol I will begin going off on Twitter about this!

[@liamoliver5848]

Or the Twilight videos.

[@bobjoegt2337]

I feel so betrayed 🥲 how could you James!

[@ethanshmit2343]

It’s funny how the Illuminati deemed strange “the biggest threat to the multiverse”, yet they seemed completely unfazed by the person who strange was completely afraid of

[@mathiasfrandsen5468]

lol you're right

[@leviharris-hale6578]

Their Wanda was weaker and they didn’t understand the full context of the dark holds power because Strange was able to give it up without any people asking him too and they killed him easily.

[@hellfish2309]

Not as big a problem as Xavier turning on a dime from assessing all Stranges as multiversal threats to this Steven Strange potentially disproving that premise… after “Loki” and now this, I am not enthusiastic about Waldron’s writing… this feels very season 5 Game of Thrones though not as severe… yet

[@leviharris-hale6578]

@@hellfish2309 he never believed they were all threats. It’s a democratic system. He would’ve clearly voted not to kill strange. He knew his Steven was a threat because he annihilated a universe. He states clear as day that you can always change and he trusts Steven right before he leaves.

[@hellfish2309]

@@leviharris-hale6578 he never investigated him, never cross examined him… he showed up to reveal why they killed their clean-shaven 838 Steven, but if he’s going to a few minutes later circumvent the votes of the rest of Illuminati while they’re getting murdered, the audience needs to see him grow faith in this Steven - Xavier didn’t do it in desperation otherwise he would have believed Strange’s testimony re:Wanda; Xavier contradicts Mordo allegedly because he believes in him, which again circles back to my problem

[@amiccus_]

If this movie was just called "Doctor Strange and the Scarlet Witch", expectations would likely have not... gotten out of hand.

[@Gzilla313]

Should have been Scarlett Witch in the Multiverse of Madness.

[@markvieyra9950]

@@Gzilla313 It’s more a Doctor Strange movie. He has the most growth, we learn the most about his character. Everything about Wanda we knew from Wandavision for the most part.

[@albert97vargas]

@@Gzilla313 would you prefer if avengers infinity war was called Thanos infinity war

[@Gzilla313]

@@albert97vargas the logic tracks. It's Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness because he's the protagonist, and in Infinity War Thanos is the protagonist. So Thanos and the Infinity War would make sense.

[@Courier_333]

@@Gzilla313 she is the villain my guy

[@elijahhartley4109]

I can’t believe they had the balls to go to the corn dimension for a final face off against corn of coblin

[@obi-wanshinobi2353]

I almost cried it was incredible.

[@jimmyjon9970]

@Arielle ♪ bot

[@stuartbagley2586]

Well done.

[@justinkroboth360]

Never forget!

[@TerrenceNowicki]

Everything's on a cob!

[@MrSquidskid]

What I found misleading was the trailers make it seem like the premise was some kind of reckoning for Strange's tampering of reality. Yeah it had nothing to do with that at all.

[@peaches3835]

I feel like that was intentional though to try give you the *spoiler*…….. scarlet witch twist

[@Beastinvader]

Exactly what I thought. Strangely, I think the NEXT movie would deal with this. The third eye and the demons warning him not to interfere. Disappointing we didn't see it here. It would have tied in with Mordo's critiques plus Steven's actions in IW and No Way Home

[@more-reasons6655]

Not to mention Dr West questioning his Thanos decision in the first 5 minutes

[@spacepopeXIV]

@@Beastinvader That was another thing about this movie that kinda felt off, like an elephant in the room. 616 Mordo being completely left out of the story even though the first Dr. Strange definitely made it seem like the second one will be dealing with his conflict against Stephan and like you said that would've fit in perfectly with Strange's story so far seeing as how he's been tampering with shit ever since he became a wizard. It would've been interesting and more chaotic to see Strange dealing with Wanda and Mordo at the same time. Would've given the "Madness" part of the title/story a little more credibility.

[@Super_Broly]

@@spacepopeXIV I think the title stands, Madness being Wanda, and Multiverse being America, they tell you right there what the movie is about. They do leave alot left to interpretation with the title but once you see the film, I think it's cleared up generally well. I do think Mordo should have been in 616 in some way, but I know he'll be in the third. To truly bring Stephen to reckoning.

[@AaronSkone]

I still can't believe that John Krazinski played every single character in this movie. What a versatile actor.

[@cph4314]

Randall Park*

[@alexwilliamns]

@@cph4314 easy to confuse the two.

[@chris56269]

Definitely great to see more parts going to Asian actors.

[@oasntet]

Very flexible.

[@ResoluteRiot]

we all thought, "if they're showing us Charles in the trailer, there must be bigger things they're hiding"

[@MashMalloman]

Black Bolt and Mr Fantastic were huge cameo's imo. The biggest thing they were hiding was hyping up the power of the Iluminati only to completely show them getting destroyed by Wanda within minutes. I think it was a brilliant showcase of her power because we expected them to be smart and powerful. Their own hubris got them killed. Had they worked with Strange as a team, they maybe would of stood a chance against her.

[@DimaJeydar]

Sorry, got to remove that like because at first I thought you are joking about Charles the Coconut from another multiversal movie of 2022.

[@apollogamingow]

This is why I don’t watch trailers anymore. Whoever is in charge of trailers always reveal too much. I stopped watching trailers after SpiderMan Homecoming where we saw Tony step out of the suit. Would have been such a cool moment without having seen it in the trailer. So every single one of the reveals in this film was an incredible surprise and I was thrilled! Really enjoyed the film!

[@gridlo]

or Hulk in Thor Ragnorock -- man, what a cool surprise that could have been.

[@dylanmahaffey8920]

Yeah, call me crazy but I don't want to know everything that happens in a movie before I see it.

[@joker6558]

I totally agree. When the new Thor trailer played before dr strange, I literally closed my ears and eyes and quietly went nah nah nah nah.

[@daredevil6145]

Not watching any trailers definitely helped my experience considering what everyone had hoped/expected after seeing 'things' in promotion

[@CallMeFi]

I don't want trailers either but have since gone back and looked at Doctor Strange and the MOM's trailer because so many people claimed that the trailers were misleading. HOLY HELL THEY ADVERTISED A DIFFERENT MOVIE! I don't really give a shit about cameos and all that stuff, but I do want a good story with decent pacing.

[@IcarusRed-]

For me, it wasn’t really “Multiverse of Madness,” it was just “Madness.” We really only got to spend time in one different universe.

[@starwarsnerd100]

IMO that's like saying "Into the Spiderverse" is misleading because most of it takes place in one universe.

[@aidangtwiford]

@@starwarsnerd100 yeah, but i feel that movie is more about the spider-men themselves, and not the universes that they reside in as much

[@pyron4913]

@@starwarsnerd100 Dunno, Spiderverse was really diverse when it came to different versions of the character and had a lot of unique style that helped to seperate it from other Spider-Man movies. Multiverse of Madness on the other hand had, two slightly different Stranges and Evil Strange that seemed to have exact same backstory expect one minor change each, and two unique universes with one being completly desolate. It was kinda cool but honestly only Iluminati one had a reason to be seperate universe. Other ones just looked like time travel with extra steps. Hell you could replace multiverse aspect with time travel or dream jumping and it would change nothing. It wasn't bad but it's not fresh enough concept to justify it. Kinda felt like when MCU became hit all other studios started to copy it despite their movies having no reason to go that specific route, expect other way around.

[@samuelburton302]

I think we watched different movies

[@themasteronhigh1665]

I saw three different universes, and an extra universe we spent a couple minutes in, and a couple dozen they fell threw... What more do you want?

[@chrishurst7541]

Absolutely. Pretty much all of the trailers had voice overs from Wong stating “you opened up the door to other universes…who knows what will step through” and Dr strange saying “I did what I had to do” almost gearing up for this to be a direct fall out from the events of spiderman - no way home. Literally nothing like that happens in the movie and everything to do with the multiverse is down to America Chavez and Wanda

[@dubster82]

Yes. With the fallout from Loki and No Way Home, you'd expect this to be all about different realities smashing into one another and causing all sorts of problems which need fixing, but with America being able to portal jump, I think this could of been the same movie without those two previous stories.

[@AlBroMedia]

I bet that’s the way it was going to go originally. Sam Raimi said in that interview there was a cut of 2 hours and 40 minutes. They did re-shoots and it brought the runtime down to 2 hours 6 minutes.

[@chrishurst7541]

@@AlBroMedia id have taken a longer movie over one that shoe horned the cameos in, I don’t think it was really any better off for having Mr Fantastic, Captain Carter etc in. Maybe something other than the book of Ashanti as well. It just felt a bit like a pointless side quest to me.

[@schmecklin377]

@@chrishurst7541 it was very comic esque where the hero goes to another universe with wacky different heroes and fucks everything up and kills them all. I struggle to even call them cameos because we will never see them again and they're not leading up to anything.

[@spacepopeXIV]

Bro, and it literally states in the Google summary, "Dr Stephen Strange casts a forbidden spell that opens a portal to the multiverse. However, a threat emerges that may be too big for his team to handle." Like I don't understand why people are getting so bitchy and mad at other people for justifiably expecting a crazier story that's actually connected to all the other crazy shit that Marvel has shown us in the past year. People are like, "Wow, you shouldn't have had bigger expectations of this movie in a connected media universe actually being connected to said media universe. Sounds like it's your fault." And it's like, what the fuck are you talking about Marvel released Loki, What If, and Spider-Man with these huge ass winks and implications to the greater universe and of course people are going to expect a movie called "Multiverse of Madness" to have some sort of connection to these great implications that deal with the freaking Multiverse! Bitch.

[@skeletonsofgods9692]

We can all agree the best part of the movie was when Doctor Steven Strange said "It's time to get strange." The theater was utterly flabbergasted

[@mrsundaymovies]

I could not stop both gasping and clapping

[@2nd3rd1st]

I could not stop both clasping and gapping

[@MINIMJ22]

When tf did that happen...?

[@joeyc9418]

My biggest complaint is that Wanda spends a lot of time just shooting red lasers, mostly in the beginning, but they establish that she's the one who sent those monsters so why not have her conjure bizarre monsters to fight the sorcerers... more interesting than lasers I think

[@Jojahn]

I guess the answer is Wanda is stronger herself than monsters she would summon? But even then yeah a battle between a load of crazy monsters and sorcerers would have been cool.

[@MashMalloman]

Wanda didn't conjur the monsters, she was puppeting them from another dimension, it's foreshadowing for the dreamwalking she uses to access the variant of herself. Wanda's strong, but even when she used dreamwalking she was forced to be stationary and unconcious during the spell. The first 2 monsters she was in control of, that was her being "reasonable". When she goes 1v1 she no longer uses the monsters because she's stronger on her own.

[@joeyc9418]

@@MashMalloman well I was really just using the monster idea as a simple example, Wanda's siege on the wizard fort (at least on the outside) was a bit disappointing especially compared to the stuff she can do later on

[@ooogelato]

Easier to cgi then to do crazy magic shit

[@stevearno9726]

@@joeyc9418 so your disappointed by Wanda finding the weak spot, messing with a mind that makes the force field collapse that led immediately into the house of mirrors (mirror dimension) which she immediately worked out how to escape from becoming the grudge?! This whole segment was first class.

[@20GUZMAN10]

They did introduce Peggy Carter as the “1st Avenger” so I would assume there are other avengers in that universe. Also do you think that Wanda is the daughter of Magneto in that universe.

[@deadpool3982]

Maybe but even in main Marvel universe they retconned that again, they aren’t even mutants anymore...just kids the High Evolutionary experimented on (which did get a nod in the movie)...though that’ll probably change again soon lol

[@JosiahRobert14]

@@deadpool3982 nah they retconned it. Sis is just a witch and she used her magic to protect her and her brother.

[@deadpool3982]

@@JosiahRobert14 already? That last retcon was 2020...and she was always the Witch (her mother was the precious one) Evolutionary just gave her the old school hex bolts and Pietro his Speed Edit: wait...are you talking about in the MCU? Because I wasn’t lol

[@donbirkinshaw1630]

i feel like they have to exist and in this universe but sam raimi wanted to do something different and focus on a different team like the illuminati instead of jsut anohter avengers team..iron man has to exist in this univrse some where because of those ultron snetry drones the illumanit as sicne in the mcu iron man created them but hes not there...my ideas as to why is becuase they orignally planned to put him in but maybe cut it becuase thye didnt want to bring back iron man due to his deah until they are ready to bring back iron man in secert wars instead...ironmans character and death is so signifcant to the mcu that if you broguht him back so soon..eventho its is an alterante universee it would feel cheap ajd undercut his death..becuase then when a charatcter dies people can always say well it deosnt really matter because another verison of hm must exist out there anc could easily replace him..so when it came to the mulitverse tey either used characters they hadnt used before or alterante characters that havent died yet so it doesnt feel cheap brigning back iron man jsut to kill him again at the hands of wanda with the rest of the illumanti..i think that would of pissed everyone of..bringing back iron man should be a one time deal for a very special and more meaningful occiasion so saveing his return for the secert wars trilogy would work better ( btw it seems like they may do the secert wars as the enxt big over arching multi phase arc like thanos and the infinty stones as a trilogy because of how big the story is and how mich characters you have to put in it would be bigger then the cast of infifnty war and end game combained so a trilogy makes sense to give everyone time to shine sintead of just being there..number 1 will more then likley be about the death of the univrse during a mutliversesal war set up in loki could call it secert wars: incursaions since they set the incursions up in this movies..and then part 2 would be secert wars: battle world where the beyonder takes bits and peace of different plans forr different parts of the unvierse and other diemantion puts it all togherer on one gigantic planet called battleworld where he forces all the heros and the villains as the beyonder takes every single hero and villain alive and dead for a one time deal to fight etch other as a test and the goal to be slay your enemys and all you deserie will be yours..the prase being he will grant anything they desire deep down for wining ending with dr doom stealing the powers of the beyonder in the same way infifnty war ended with the snap and set up secert wars: god emperor doom as the final boss in part 3..so in the universe where the illumanti died they more then likey removed iron man so they didnt have to kill him again and piss everyone off and saveign iron mans return for this which means tony stark in this universe must of taken the day of because he wasnt there which good for him because that may of saved his life..maybe when the mutlviersal war happenes tony being the sole survivor of the illumanit seeks revenge on earth 616 during the mutlviersal war becuse it would make sense to revist this world due to the damage dr strange and wanda did to it jsut by being there and wants to get justice for the people that got killed and avenge them becuase a person able to to take out all of the illumanti m a group of some of the most smartest and powerful men on the planet then that is a big threat and course for concern and it would be fun to see him plan for this like avenegrs one lead to tony to plan to for thanosbecause fo the threat he poses if he was to return but goes of the deep end it would make sense for consiqeunces for this action instead of leaveing this unvierse with a large group of this earths most powerful protectors and heros had been killed and never seeing or hearing about it again would be disapointing because the story prentential you could do with that would be really cool to see those consqeuinces come back to bite earth 616...kind of like when the earth was colidieng in the begining of secert wars and etch planet went to war with etch other to make sure the other planet survived do something simler like this to set the stage for battle world where at the end the planets colide and at the last second the beyonder takes everything he can and salvages it on one gigantic planet that has everything and everyone important on it

[@deadpool3982]

@@donbirkinshaw1630 didn’t read all that (good god man) but they literally kept referencing the Secret Wars thing, the whole earths crashing together thing has a name....they’re called Incursions...

[@Chori0nicmirror]

The reshoots probably turned this into a totally different movie.

[@spacepopeXIV]

That's what I'm definitely suspecting, they clearly sliced a lot off from this movie, and I am very curious as to how this movie was first going to be.

[@pokemonteaml]

So a lot of the expectations were actually SKEWED because this movie was supposed to come out before What if...? and Loki, so the only D+ show we were supposed to have going in was actually going to be Wandavision which makes more sense in the context of the movie.

[@apolloathena8140]

This is the correct answer right here. I was expecting at least a Kang end credit scene or something during MOM but then I remembered this lol Boy, was my face red

[@lucaswarriorteammining5786]

@@apolloathena8140 Haha, was it in anger or embarrassment? I always keep telling myself America was suppose to be in No Way Home to remember the context of this movie.

[@apolloathena8140]

@@lucaswarriorteammining5786 Embarrassment and frustration mostly. Really, I'm just waiting for the X-Men but I'm so hype about them being in the MCU, I think my expectations are too high and I'll end up disappointed again, but it'll be my own fault really for being s hype

[@lucaswarriorteammining5786]

@@apolloathena8140 seeing what they're doing with the new spider-man show, it's possible that the animated shows will be different timelines and since X-Men is animated, it provides means it's not in the MCU. Meaning if the X-Men get a live action appearance, it's be based off the show. But then again, I can be wrong

[@apolloathena8140]

@@lucaswarriorteammining5786 Well, Xavier in MOM was definitely pulled straight from the animated series, but I think that was just fan service (not a bad thing in this instance). But, yeah, since we know animated universes are part of the MCU multiverse i wouldn't be surprised if they did that

[@Lynch2507]

I personally feel its the same as WandaVision, in so far that everyone EXPECTED stuff like Mephisto, X-men and so on but that was never a guarantee. It's pretty clear by this stage that we're back in the Phase 1, slow build stage of Marvel where they're introducing stuff before the next big saga. Honestly, Marvel's biggest enemy are their own fans hyping stuff up too much lmao

[@aquibajeem]

To be fair, they aren't keeping things simple and straightforward like early phase 1. They're upping the ante with each of these movies , doing whatever they can to perhaps keep up the revenue that late phase 3 brought in. Throwing in previous spidermen, casting fan casts, multiple high profile characters in each movie etc.

[@marianomosquera1995]

I don't think Marvel fans qualify as its worst enemy with all the hyping tho. I mean, at this point, after everything that's ended up happening (like Tobey and Andrew coming back), it's to be expected. It'd be different if the fandom was so toxic that Feige felt obligated to change everything with every new movie to keep everyone satisfied, like with that OTHER piece of Disney IP.

[@Lynch2507]

@@aquibajeem yeah. We're in a post-Endgame world. Heroes know each other, we've already have to have them explain why they have to say, Wanda over thor or hulk. Like, I can let it slide, the universe is much bigger now, stuff is gonna be a bit bigger then phase 1

[@Lynch2507]

@@marianomosquera1995 thats fair, i just meant in so far as expecting EVERY movie to involve "Oh look, its that person from the other thing we like" as a major plot point. Like, the illuminati were very cool, but im glad they weren't the focus

[@marianomosquera1995]

@@Lynch2507 I could've done without the Illuminati, to be honest. Not have them in the movie at all. The conflict between Wanda and Stephen was so solid and so clear from the very beginning that every little thing that was not absolutely needed to progress their story felt extra evidently not supposed to be in it. Or at least like a neat bonus. Cool to see, yes, but making the story feel less tight is the price to pay for those kinds of things. I also felt this with Evil Strange too. His inclusion might've been more interesting if the focus of the movie was "will Strange become corrupted by the Darkhold as Wanda did?" from earlier in the movie. Then he would've been like a cool possible answer to that question, hence making him relevant. But anyways, what I was saying is that, as long as fans don't hate on the movie just because their predictions didn't come true, I wouldn't say we have a problem. I haven't seen anyone hating on this because it didn't have Tom Cruise in it.

[@alexlazzerly3677]

I don't think there was anything really misleading about the official marketing by Marvel. In fact the trailers pretty much showed everything. We got what we were sold. The "rumors" and "leaks" are what mislead people, and that has nothing to do with the movie itself.

[@WinterSo1dier]

Exactly

[@yourmother7750]

It was called multiverse of madness but they only went to like 3 different universes

[@awesimo4684]

@@yourmother7750 "Three Universes and a Little Lady"

[@bellkanen1998]

@@yourmother7750 so you're saying the title is the only reason you feel mislead? And not the actual trailers? lol

[@slopez5495]

Only thing misleading was the title "Multiverse of Madness", it was more like "Slight Deviations of Derangement"

[@blyzer7373]

I feel like this movie wasn't initially going to be about multiverse. Outside of Illuminati and America Chavez this movie could've easily just been a "regular" Doctor Strange Movie and I believe this is the reason why the original director Scott Derrickson left the project. When Derrickson joined the first movie he always talked about wanting to have Nightmare as the main villain which is interesting in the hindsight as Dreams have a sizeable role in the 2nd movie with them being windows to other realities and "Dreamwalking". Doctor Strange is continuously haunted by the same dream which is the starting off point for the whole movie as well as Scarlet Witch who keeps dreaming her imaginary kids. If you take out America Chavez from the movie, which in turns takes out the multiverse from the picture, the story remains pretty much the same. Yes, you would have to replace America Chavez with another Mcguffin but that shouldn't be that hard to do. Scarlet Witch could just as easily be looking for some powerful relic that would allow her to make her "dreams real" and attack the Sanctuary to get it. This is also supported by the reports of Sam Raimi "being forced" to include some scenes in the movie and I think this is referring to the whole Illuminati deal. They feel a bit out of place and they don't have much to do with the overall story so you could just as easily remove them. All in all I think Scott Derickson wanted to have Nightmare be the villain in the second movie who influenced Scarlet Witch by continuously making her dream about her children, leading to her attacking Sanctuary to get whatever Mcguffin needed to make her kids real. The fight Doctor Strange has at the end with his Evil counterpart would be the fight he has with Nightmare before acquiring the means to stop Scarlet Witch.

[@gridlo]

Yeah that would explain the voices of her children at the end of WandaVision.

[@TheKillaShow]

Its been called multiverse of madness for 4 years now. It was always gonna be about the multiverse. But covid and other unforseen obstacles probably shrunk the scale of the film down.

[@blyzer7373]

@@TheKillaShow You didn't follow what I said. Scott Derickson, the director of the first movie (2016) and the original director for the 2nd movie always wanted to make Nightmare a villain in one of the movies. That predates the announcement of the title for the second Dr. Strange movie as it would be planned way back in 2014/2015 while the movie was in development and shooting. I think his initial idea for the movie was about Nigthmare and the Dream dimensiom but it slowly evolved into multiverse of madness on the request of Kevin Feigi and as it changed more and more, Scott Derickson decided to leave the project. When Sam Raimi came to the project the multiverse was set in stone but the template for the movie was made by Derickson, hence his inclusion in the credits, just changed a bit to be more about Multiverse. Then they probably realized the movie wasn't multiverse-heavy enough so they "forced" Sam Raimi to shoot more Cameo scenes and include that whole Illuminati thing.

[@MichaelChisholmChizzieRascal]

It was initially going to be about Baron Mordo why else have him be the teaser at the end credits for Doctor Strange. We haven't seen that movie yet Strange and Mordo have never faced off before this movie.

[@BTBSOUNDS]

@@Evergreentree742 that wasnt the original plot as much as it was a backup plotline in case they weren't able to pull off the multiverse stuff. They didnt wanna do the multiverse elements if they couldnt bring on all the villains from the older movies which seemed like the case for the longest time but eventually managed to get most people and the ones we couldnt were grateful enough to remotely record lines.

[@dexterthielhelm4342]

Technically the avengers DO exist in earth 838. When Capt Carter was introduced, she was called the first avenger. Plus, black bolt means there is more inhumans in the universe, the fantastic 4 exists otherwise the 4 on the uniform is for something else?

[@dexterthielhelm4342]

And mutants. Not necessarily Xmen, but at least mutants

[@nicholastotoro7721]

Hopefully the Inhumans in those universes have better TV series'.

[@tmac731]

So where are the other avengers because it seems like the Illuminati is the avengers of 838

[@monelmonelmonel]

The term "Multiverse of Madness" is so bizarre that they should've included fight scenes with various creatures from throughout the multiverse, opening portals to where they are, various beings who want to slay America Chavez besides Wanda to make it a true madness.

[@Bigmiquimby]

I think the "Madness" comes from the Darkhold and its effects on its users.

[@CrisisComics]

If it were a James Gunn movie, he'd have all sorts of crazy characters jumping through the portals to nab her. Mojo. D'Spayre. The Mindless Ones. Blackheart. Sentinels. It'd be a *Ready Player One* -style menagerie of weird Marvel characters.

[@derelict06]

That was the letdown for me. I was expecting madness, but we got a pretty bog standard marvel film with some added horror. No madness no twists, since Wandavillain was revealed in the trailers. It was good, it was just normal

[@monelmonelmonel]

@@Bigmiquimby Yeah, but most of the universes were only glimpses, so it wasn't quite multiverse-y but I do get that the Darkhold was the 'madness' of the film, but I was expecting more chaotic scenes maybe? Because of the title itself. I believe the film's release date adjustments affected it because most people (excluding me) expected more from it following No Way Home, especially because the title contains the phrase "Multiverse of Madness." People were talking about the X-Men, the Phoenix, Loki, and other Marvel characters showing up as I was waiting in line for the ticket. I mean, the film has some great cameos, but it's not as large as people expected after seeing No Way Home. I still believe it's a fantastic film, but the title "Multiverse of Madness" makes it seem a lot bigger than it is. The only funny thing that I've experienced was that people in the cinema were disappointed at the second post credit scene.

[@monelmonelmonel]

@@derelict06 I agree! I just assumed it would be more chaotic because of the title; perhaps if the film hadn't been titled "Multiverse of Madness," people wouldn't have complained as much. Nonetheless, I still enjoyed the film.

[@wanderlustwarrior]

I didnt watch many of the trailers, but I was still kinda underwhelmed by the film. I was expecting it to be more "multiversal" and more "mad", and it was just... Doctor Strange takes on a villain from his own universe, while momentarily stepping into exactly two other universes. And it didn't actually seem to build to anything.

[@BiologyIsHot]

And the villain was... a mad/crazy version of themselves for sure... But also kind of too understandable. It was like a crappy version of Wandavision.

[@futuregarrett4769]

If ultron never turned bad in the 838 universe there would be no need to make vision

[@Harree92]

An interesting theory for what you discuss at 39:30 as to whether Dr Strange saw a way to save the universe in Endgame where he sacrificed himself... With the time stone, the user can't see anything past their own death, so although there may be a option where Dr Strange dies but in turn saves the universe, he wouldn't be able to be 100% certain of it, so the safest option is the one where Iron Man snuffs it.

[@celondelon351]

Is this a Sam Raimi movie? Screaming girl, check! White Oldsmobile, check! Bruce Campbell, check!

[@cambrasher3875]

Maybe I should t have expected it, but I thought it’d be like a “trapped and running/surviving in the multiverse” kind of film. Feel like I would have liked it more. They introduced too much, and didn’t give us enough time to get a feel for it, but also not enough, that lets us let go and hang on for the ride.

[@-MrFozzy-]

Agreed….the villain actively took me back. I was totally confused. It was a shock….I didn’t love the direction of the film…but on the whole I loved what we got…but the villain is totally a different person and there’s no coming back from it in my eyes….in fact, I’m not even sure if it’s even a thing anymore…if it’s not…then what a horrible ending

[@haydencc]

Multi. 😅i😮is yuk 😮 Yyo b the river is y Yeah M😊me and c 😢oh 😮h😮h You’ll kki😮m M You yuk😅🎉Imguyu 😮 Hun U hmmmmm ing😮k IhY ul oI’m 😮bo at b😮😢 😅

[@hellfish2309]

I thought there would be a true villain like the one we got, but I thought Mordo would be our Mordo now multiverse cop/agent chasing Strange and Chavez across a few universes to bring them in for Illuminati judgment

[@ziljin]

I think people were expecting this movie to bring the X-Men and Fantastic Four into our "main" universe. Just like they were expecting Wandavision to bring Quicksilver back.

[@nickgjenkins]

I liked this movie with really only some pacing issues I had in the 1st and 3rd acts. But I'm glad to hear that Maso and Mr. Sunday had at least similar experiences to mine. Visual feast, fun Raimi-isms, loved Wanda going full HAM after she was corrupted by the Dark Hold, and loved her portrayal (both visually and through Lizzie's performance). I had a great time.

[@GuineaPigEveryday]

Idk why ppl were talking about ‘oh they probably won’t make Wanda evil, she’s not the villain they won’t risk that’ and now that they took the risk many ppl r just angry about it. I’m rlly glad they took the risk to have Wanda be a villain

[@nickgjenkins]

@@GuineaPigEveryday It also makes perfect sense. To be honest, I would have found it more jarring if she wasn't corrupted by the dark hold in this film. And it was a great opportunity to CONTINUALLY show that there is a leadership vacuum in the Avengers. No one is watching out for each other. Cap and Tony were trying but they're gone now. So Wanda is, again, left alone in her grief and horror. What do they think is gonna happen? I really love it the more I think about it.

[@StayFractalesque]

shoulda been titled, "The Scarlett Witch"..

[@nickgjenkins]

@@StayFractalesque “Strange V. Scarlett: Dawn of the Multiverse”

[@gallowayow8672]

It was very impactful when my entire full theater was silent during the ending, and both post credit scenes.

[@brendan7704]

The only weird thing is she went looking for the kids but not a universe where Vision is also still alive

[@coastalboat5700]

I liked when John Krasinski came out at the end and said “glass isn’t just frozen air”

[@fullmetalb5241]

And now we (and mason) know that it's true because he is the smartest man alive!

[@pugman9672]

Wanda disagreed

[@jimthorne9585]

Or when Bruce Campbell yelled at Strange and said "Now that's an Army of Darkness!"

[@MaxWelton]

7:29 the rule for PG-13 is one F-bomb allowed per film, with some exceptions. For instance, Marvel never goes there because Disney, but Hobbs & Shaw had 1 (technically 2, but they were simultaneous). Knives Out got away with 2 for whatever reason, my guess is the runtime. Because Knives Out was so long, the runtime-to-F-bomb ratio was higher than it would’ve been otherwise.

[@jloh3256]

The one is not a hard and fast rule, but usually the case as a second one will likely push the rating to an R. Ocean's Eleven also had two, and also depending on the context of the word

[@recover2077]

This is not true there are plenty of PG-13 and 12 Rated movies that have more than one F Bomb, Knives Out, Transformers 3, Oceans Eleven and more.

[@MaxWelton]

@@recover2077 which is why I specifically said, “with some exceptions” and brought up Knives Out.

[@reizig]

I think No Way Home messed with a lot of peoples expectations of the movie, and Marvel/Disney did nothing to dissuade them. To be fair, I don't think there's any good marketing way to say, "Hey guys, it's not going to be THAT cool...". But this was essentially just a Doctor Strange movie where the multiverse is a plot point. It's not a Multiverse movie with a 40 minute super-montage of us meeting characters from every Marvel universe, past and present, spanning studio properties.

[@TvReferences]

If they hadn’t revealed prof X and captain Carter it would’ve been better. In my head I thought well if they’re revealing that, there must be a lot more

[@GregsOrios]

​@@TvReferences I think if we met them in different universes it would have been kinda cool also if none of the earth 868( I think that's the name) was in the trailer that would have been enough for people to lose there shit

[@forty_two42]

I like that Reed was introduced as the smartest "Man" in the world because in the comics for the last decade the smartest "Person" in the world is his daughter Valeria Richards aka Brainstorm (because her mom is Sue Storm so Brain Storm. I think it's a cute name)

[@dimetrodon2250]

Some people seemed upset that the MCU is considered to be universe 616, since that's also the mainline comic universe and that means they are separate continuities and not tied to the same multiverse. But I think it works so that they can do multiverse level stuff in the MCU without affecting the comics, or by having their own rules. For instance they can destroy all of the Darkholds in the multiverse and the singular Book of Vishanti but still have those pop up in the comics later, or have different multiverse rules like incursions or how all dreams are alternate universes that your consciousness connects to. Into the Spiderverse had the thing where being in a different universe causes you to glitch out sometimes, but since its a self-contained separate canon, they dont need to explain why every other Marvel multiverse story doesnt have glitching. There's also the existence of America Chavez. Since there's only one of her, she would have to be the same individual from the comics, but that's not the case. I guess that means that universe 19999 or whatever the comics call the MCU is actually another universe that happens to have played out exactly like the MCU. The same will probably be true for Across the Spiderverse

[@bioniclefan10]

I thought it was strange (haha) that they said it was 616, as that's the mainline comics and not MCU. Seems like a huge oversight or maybe intentionally trying to make the movies the main source and not the comics? Either way I hate that. Or, it could just be those illuminati assholes consider it 616 and their wrong but think there so smart, which is the only way I'll accept it.

[@Derek_Keenan]

@bioniclefan10 not a huge oversight at all, it's exactly as OP said

[@andrewshandle]

I think the number of people who felt they were mislead is directly proportional to those who watch/listen to all the leaks and speculation about the movie. There is an entire cottage industry on YT of people who "confirmed" that Wanda would single handedly bring Mutants to the MCU by ending the movie saying "Let their be Mutants", that Galactus was in the movie, that Tom Cruise was in the movie, that the movie was bigger than End Game, etc. and a lot of people believed that and were disappointed after the fact. I do think Marvel showed too much in the trailers, but not for hype reasons, more because I think they didn't need to go down the Sony route and show so much of it.

[@starwarsnerd100]

It always makes me think of a comment I once read. Something along the lines of "I've always hated Lando Calrissian, because in my head I came up with this backstory that Han found the Millennium Falcon in a dump and restored it like a vintage car. Then Episode V said he won it from Lando in a card game, and I've never been able to forgive Lando." Some people will construct a whole movie in their imaginations, and then blame the movie when it doesn't exactly match up to the perfect version they made in their heads.

[@andrewshandle]

@@starwarsnerd100 Most definitely. Roger Ebert used to talk about how it's important to always critique the movie that he watched, not critique the movie he wished they would have made. That doesn't mean the movie was beyond valid criticism, because it wasn't perfect by any stretch, but "It wasn't bigger than End Game" isn't an example of valid criticism.

[@kingfield99]

Just got back from seeing this and I really enjoyed how 'comic-bookey' it was, everyone involved seems well aware how crazy and fantastical this/these universes are and didn't try too hard to be 'grounded in reality'.

[@kieran10202]

So the souls of the damned that were summoned are apparently from hell, and they mention it being forbidden to possess the dead. Forbidden by who? Who do they work for in hell? Who brings dead people back in exchange for services (like say ghost rider?). Mephisto Confirmed.

[@LUINEITOR360]

They had avengers, since Captain Carter was refered as the first Avenger

[@seanberrodin801]

I wouldn't call that a hard and fast rule, they like to throw around "Avenger" even if they're not on any team or maybe a team in the basic sense of the word doesn't even exist. Also, it's unclear whether or not this is the same Captain Carter we saw in What If. Based on the paint universe and the animated universe it is clear that some universes are portrayed visually differently than others. Meaning, since What If was animated and this wasn't it may be a different Captain Carter in that sense. So whichever way you cut it just because a Captain Carter has been called "the First Avenger" doesn't mean the universe we saw in this film had Avengers.

[@more-reasons6655]

But annoyingly enough the Avenger's name is taken from Carol Danver's plane. So without Carol the team of supes could have a different name in that universe

[@LUINEITOR360]

@@more-reasons6655 true

[@lityne5577]

the scene where Wanda starts dream walking and there was that music playing felt like something from The Craft and I LOVED IT

[@danrotando6111]

This ^

[@_Rick___Grimes_]

i loved that scene! my favorite part of the movie actually

[@zengamer21]

I don't think Strange could see past his own death when he was viewing possible futures. The previous Sorcerer Supreme said she couldn't see past her own death. Could be different for Strange but it's likely the same. So, if one of those futures allowed the Avengers to win, he wouldn't have known the details on how to make it happen. Therefore, those futures weren't a possible win. Just my theory.

[@leanmeangreenbeanmachine3347]

FUCKING EXACTLY

[@mon_nobi]

OMG ok so I was thinking of making a “Doctor Strange 2 Rewritten” type of video essay and this was the exact main plot point that I wanted to have as the driving force behind Strange’s character arc instead of that shallow half assed “are you happy/learn to let go of the knife” stuff. As you articulated very well, theoretically it’s possible that out of the 14mill+ possible ways to end the Thanos crisis, he either did not or could not see a version that included him being the one to make the sacrifice play instead of Tony. (Making it so that he could not see a future past his death absolves the story from being one where Strange selfishly chose to withhold possible futures where he died in battle, making the Snap, Blip, & Tony’s death essentially his fault). So in my version, I’d expand on the wedding scene and have more people like their doctor friend express grief over the 5yrs and ask if the choice he made on Titan was really the only way. Later a big bomb of the film would be that there were actually more ways to stop Thanos, but it involved Strange’s death like what happened to the 838 Strange. Etc etc anyway long story short, I like your theory :)

[@zengamer21]

@@mon_nobi Thanks :)

[@superduperspacetrooper7494]

I strangely got a Green Lantern feeling from some of the fighting. Expecially when he was fighting evil Dr Strange with music notes. It felt like it could have been two different ring bearers doing it. And by that, I conclude that Marvel have done the best live action Green Lantern movie.

[@Lightningkuriboh]

LOL

[@chadsmalley]

You’re not wrong!

[@jorgewilliams1585]

They confirm in this that MCU movies are in universe 616 so how did Mysterio know this? He said it in no way home. Who told him of this classification? He clearly has ACTUAL knowledge of the multiverse and wasn't just bullshitting.

[@technocore1591]

Pretty sure the "didn't you chart in the 60's?' comment was a rif on the Beatles being referred to as "the fab four"

[@thebatman4279]

Yes that's the very first thing i thought of too.

[@technocore1591]

@@thebatman4279 I feel like its because I'm old but I've been shocked how many people didn't get that. I saw one review saying they thought it was supposed to be a tie in to the fact that the Fantastic Four was big in the 60's and I'm like, "IT'S A BEATLES JOKE, dagnabit! Get off my lawn!" lol

[@Beastinvader]

Definitely. People are over thinking it

[@petekwando]

I do wish I hadn't seen the trailers. I skipped the last one, but the first revealed too much. Having said that, I love how bonkers the whole thing was. Especially loved that they included Black Bolt. Too often, studios seem to blame the actor if a project isn't good, but Anson Mount is a talented actor, I hope we see him in the role again.

[@zachfevans]

I have a strong feeling that the Fantastic Four film will begin in the 60's with something akin to the actual Moon Landing (they'll say the Buzz/Armstrong thing is a cover for the actual mission) Some mad shit happens in space and they get zapped into the Quantum Realm, while also gaining their power. Fast forward to Antman and the Wasp, they run into the F4, only a few years has passed, but they have made it their home - gaining all this super knowledge. They get the fuck out of dodge and into the year 2025. It would be interesting to have half the film set in the 60's and the other half in present day, having to catch up with everything - interesting family dynamics - parents long gone, friends old or dead. Family drama shit. Oh and they'll help fight a version of Kang.

[@pat7917]

I’m just excited to see the next multiverse variant of Captain America in the upcoming sequel on June 17th! They’re even brining back Chris Evans! He is also getting his own high-tech space suit and a sweet green & purple jet pack!!

[@hlash2558]

I love how these videos always have some amount of movement by the end, props to the editor!

[@idbuyanewbmx]

I was POSITIVE we were going to see Quicksilver leading up to this and I was hoping he'd end up in 616. I'm still so happy with the movie.

[@christianc.christian5025]

The fact that there was not even an appearance from original recipe Mordo or Wanda’s brother is just unforgivable in my eyes.

[@spencermagon686]

@@christianc.christian5025 seethe

[@idbuyanewbmx]

@@christianc.christian5025 like, okay, you have a lot of characters to get in, but those two are at the top in my opinion. I agree with you 100 percent!

[@ToomanyFrancis]

I really like how they go from heads blowing up The Suicide Squad style to throwing magic orange glowing music notes around. This movie is completely tonally coherent.

[@hardcorepeewee]

For a secret team of leaders and geniuses (not to mention freaking professor x who could have just read Dr Strange’s mind to see the danger that was coming), they made really stupid decisions and then died immediately

[@oneopinion6806]

"Hey reality bending witch lady! This is Blackagar Boltagon. He has my back. I would advise not getting spoken to by him; his voice will make you go poof and really is his only weapon."

[@roebtheservant]

Yeah the movie is like a live action what if.

[@luckylooster]

I still can’t get over a meme I found for this film say the first Latina superhero and her superpowers is crossing borders like dam.

[@AlmightyArceus]

They definitely revealed too much in the trailers, but I do think that we as an audience were ready for a true "MAD" multiverse. I never felt the "madness" except for how it pertained to Wanda's character. I wanted shit to get WEIRDER but instead it was bizarrely grounded, because it was about facing trauma. Overall a good and enjoyable film.

[@BiologyIsHot]

Spoiled too much and too little. Was not enough mad, but also too mad. Was definitely not enough multiverse. Was billed as a sequel in a sense to both WandaVision and No Way Home. Passing reference to No Way Home. No reckoning for Strange's actions in NWH. Instead we got the episodes 10-12 of Wandavision that nobody wanted and overall made the beauty of Wandavision a lot weaker. Somebody dropped the ball. I don't believe it was Raimi, Olsen, Cumberbatch, etc. Kevin Feige should get a lot of blame for that as he is supposed to keep the cohesiveness and ensure films overall deliver on their connection to the MCU, possibly Disney if they put their hands too deep into some of it, possibly Waldron if he was really intent on this being the story despite some glaring issues.

[@scrapydan3251]

I liked the cameos but that's not what disappointed me, I thought it was a shame that we only really got to explore two universes one of which was basically just one building in new York and the other was new York but with more trees, I would have liked to see the paint universe or animated universe and have strange properly react to being in a universe so different to the normal mcu.

[@starwarsnerd100]

It’s hard to make a meaningful story in a paint universe. Why do you think Into the Spiderverse had basically two similar versions of New York, and the wacky Noir, Anime, and Looney Tunes dimensions were represented by side characters?

[@scrapydan3251]

@@starwarsnerd100 are you saying they couldn't have spent 2 minutes in a totally different universe.

[@starwarsnerd100]

@@scrapydan3251 Well considering it was a major plot point that she couldn't control her dimension hopping powers . . . yes. Also we got the trippy dimension where the Good Magic Book was stored, and the others that appeared on the montage. You're not gonna get anything out of a 2 minute scene in the Paint Universe that you wouldn't get out of a 2 second scene in the Paint Universe.

[@scrapydan3251]

@@starwarsnerd100 I simply disagree lol if you were going to have things largely the same what was the point it's the same issue what if had where they picked the most dull versions to show as opposed to giving us something totally different just saying from my perspective it was disappointing even more so because we actually see different more interesting universes.

[@RobtBlond]

The only problem I had with this movie - and it was a very small problem, at that - is that I kind of felt that Wanda and the Darkhold were almost an afterthought to setting up the next phase of the MCU, or perhaps the phase following that. You suggested that Secret Wars was likely to be the upcoming storyline with multiple cameos. It could be the concluding film to a phase, or even a two-parter, like Infinity War and Endgame. But I suspect that the next Phase or to will follow the comics' Infinity and Time Runs Out stories, leading to an "incursion" that will be used to add mutants, the Fantastic Four, Miles Morales to the MCU, and perhaps even lead to the re-introduction of Iron Man, Steve Rogers, etc, with younger actors.

[@gamingjoker329]

Based on the first trailer, I thought zombie Strange was going to be the main villain & Wanda was going to go through some personal stuff at the same time, so she helps sometimes, doesn't help other times, etc. Kudos to the people that made the trailers

[@dcluvspie5777]

I didn't get that at all from the trailers how could you really gleam anything about the plot from a trailer anyway...

[@SSJPENGUIN]

The trailer people are too good at throwing people off the scent haha

[@King_NL]

This is my favorite Marvel movie next to Guardians. I did NOT expect what I got when I saw it, and I love it. Marvel movies all blend together in my head and this one of the few that stands out. For me, it worked very well.

[@bobbyhillthuglife]

This is straight-up one of the worst movies I've ever watched.

[@mutalemwananshiku4098]

@@bobbyhillthuglife u need to wstch more movies if u really thought that.

[@CalciumChief]

7:56 Been there. Get some issue that's mid-story and then you got all the asterisks and smally yellow boxes in the corner telling you "check issue #42" (guess this is what movies are still missing, little pop ups in the corner telling you this happened in Endgame and such). But this is also what Stan Lee used to do with his writing. You pick up some Silver Age comics he wrote and sometimes you will find scenes where the main character stops and there's like a page of them recaping the events of the story so far or even their origin. Like Stan said, every comic is someone's first. Guess it was just different way of writing back then, like he wanted to make you'd get your money's worth for those 25 cents (which also made some issues quite heavy on text). 42:56 Actually, Superman is canon (and pretty much all of DC) in 616 Marvel. The cover to issue 9 of Secret Wars (2015) is a big collage of events in Marvel comics and it specifically recreates the cover of Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man comic (can even see a bit of Supes boot there). Also in Thor: The Worthy #1, there's a panel of those who wielder Mjolnir and it shows Superman and Wonder Woman win silhouettes, which is a reference to when they picked up the hammer in JLA/Avengers.

[@biben10]

I think that the trailers for this movie were actually some of the best they’ve done in a while. I absolutely agree with the idea of them revealing too much in the trailers, especially Captain Carter just kind of slipping into the last trailer like “if you weren’t gonna see it here’s one more reason too real quick before it comes out!!” I don’t know if Im stupid but I honestly didn’t see wanda being the main villain whatsoever, I just expected an alternate wanda to be an antagonist and I think the trailers do a wonderful job of keeping that light twist especially for something that’s revealed so early on in the movie. There’s also the issue of scenes that feel like they exist just to be trailer segments, like Wong and Wanda getting ready to fight those demons before they just kneel to her. That’s not an issue i’d hold against this movie specifically though… it’s just a sin of modern blockbusters

[@Blazecap]

The part of the movie was when Doctor strange looked a the camera and said “now that was a multiverse of madness”

[@jordanluke73]

39:35 I literally had the exact same idea, definitely seemed like there were other winning outcomes he ignored from the time projections

[@cmrscorpio]

From the first Doctor Strange movie, the Ancient One remarks when she is dying that she cannot see beyond the last moment her own life. This would put a *huge* constraint on Doctor Strange's ability to see possible futures in which the Avengers won because he would not be able to see beyond his own death.

[@jordanluke73]

@@cmrscorpio Damn you are so right, thanks for the enlightenment. So there might have been other winning outcomes that entailed his death but he couldn't guarantee them 100%, unless maybe there was a causality where he and Thanos died simultaneously and that was the moment of guilt we saw in MoM.

[@marcusgabrielson9616]

I love that idea of vision coming into that final scene and comforting Wanda

[@MaxWelton]

Kudos to James and Mason for not making Colling do an hour of incredible editing

[@tantonvanwinkle1966]

Thanks for the early break on secret wars, heard it here first

[@josephdarby2001]

I thought this film was great personally! One of the most impactful MCU films for me personally. My only critique is that I thought the ending would have been more impactful if it was the 838 vision being the one to make Wanda see the error of her ways

[@markvieyra9950]

I didn’t even think about that! But that would make sense, I can imagine vision has to be alive in one of them.

[@Jays_dead_cat]

But that would be a man telling a woman that she was wrong. We cant have that. That's why Dr. Strange wasnt at the end of Wandavision to address the error of her ways. This is why having a female villain sucks these days. You cant have the hero fighting them without it being completely one sided and by the end she will either do the right thing or the hero will blame themselves for making the villain who they are. Remember the female villain in Dredd. Yeah good times

[@Jays_dead_cat]

@@StayFractalesque Translation: It's about a woman on her period.

[@jordan4835]

@@Jays_dead_cat that’s not true,surtur showed hell the error of her ways and dr strange didn’t cameo in wandavision because of the pandemic.

[@averymerlo4499]

I really liked the part where Morbius showed up and was like “Its Morbin time”, and then took over the movie. I thought it was a solid decision that really saved the movie. Felt they should have changed the title to Morbius of Madness though.

[@FrVitoBe]

ah but you didnt stay till the end of the credits where the title did change

[@terrymeare4742]

I think people just hyped it up too much to be honest. I watched it and thought it was pretty good and I am hit and miss with MCU at the moment. I would prefer this than a film filled to the brim with cameos with no purpose, lol. I will say it's not that mad though is it 😂🤣

[@charley15z17]

I thought it was pretty mad with Raimi's style.

[@terrymeare4742]

@@charley15z17 I loved the style. You could tell Raimi was behind the camera. I just meant the multiverse part. Bloody Wanda was mad 😆

[@twintalk2943]

People didn’t hype it up. Kevin Fiege hyped it up.

[@h.ar.2937]

@@twintalk2943 No, actually. People DID hype it up. They also hyped up WandaVision. It’s about time to stop listening to stupid channels that “leak” obviously made up shit and start setting realistic expectations. Also, of course Kevin will hype up the movie! He’s the fucking producer!

[@twintalk2943]

@@h.ar.2937 I guess I should be saying “it doesn’t matter what other people said to me. I care that the director said some pretty big things about what this movie will introduce…and it fell insanely short of those comments”.

[@mattmobilee]

Why did it end to abruptly? Love u m8s. Hope the rest is still on the podcast version

[@dubster82]

More disappointing than misleading. I think they had a snappy title and couldn't quite make it work I practice. The problem I think is the Doctor Strange in the title. It didn't have much to do with him, it's more of a sequel to Wanda vision than anything. It doesn't do anything a sequel to the first film would (which I imagine the next outing will sort). But he as a character didn't really progress, and neither did the concept of the multiverse really. I'm guessing the MCU is heading into a direction that's more what people expected this to be whilst this is maybe just dipping a toe, but they probably shouldn't of bothered. I mean it's fine. I don't really need to see it again, which is unfortunately the theme I'm finding with all MCU post Endgame with maybe the exception of No Way Home but that's due to Nostalgia.

[@markvieyra9950]

I disagree about him not changing. He’s constantly changing. He’s a pretentious asshole, and persists in being so. Till this movie. Thinking he knows best just because. At the end of this Movie he becomes more trusting of others and not just on his own decision making. Check his interaction with Wong at the end, the bow, and letting America fight Wanda on her own. Every strange, even himself said they needed to sacrifice themselves for for the greater of the multiverse.

[@azhn6170]

@dubster completely agree

[@pat7917]

I’ve noticed the same thing about all the post endgame content. The content just doesn’t have the hooks that kept me coming back like the earlier films. Don’t get me wrong, it’s been okay. But a common theme I’ve noticed is that I have been consistently underwhelmed by the climax of almost all phase 4 content.

[@DK-zl5gb]

This movie didn't have the MCU characters we know. Both this Dr. Strange and Wanda were completely different to "our" versions of their characters. We don't know what else is happening in their universes that's different.

[@l3layze]

For me, I thought the trailer was a tad bit misleading. Coming from Wanda vision, it seemed like Wanda was on a path to recovery, and without dissecting the trailer, on might think that Strange and Wanda were teaming up to fight a bigger threat. I also thought the demented strange in the trailer was the Strange from What if... And another teammate because this threat was so huge. (Ultron from What if gets free or something) I did not expect Wanda to be the villain, and be obsessed with getting her kids back. Was that good or bad, probably neither. But I would have preferred my expectations from the trailer to be the actual movie.

[@l3layze]

Also, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that the Wanda in this movie is actually a Wanda from a different dimension who has either taken control of our Wanda or captured her. Just because her behavior seemed out of character from her development in Wandavision.

[@Ilovegrunge123]

I thought it was an odd choice not to do anything with the twins in a sense of them being more important in this story. With them wanting to do young avengers with them aging them up in this movie or a hint of a them possibly reincarnating which wouldn't make sense with the age difference they would have with the rest of the young avengers.

[@jamespope7669]

Reading the Darkhold isn't recovery, obsession is bad and she was a villain in Age of Ultron.

[@mon_nobi]

@@jamespope7669 in what way was her reading the darkhold for the first time in a 5second post credits scene the same thing as her “obsessing” over it? there was literally no development nor reason for the change in characterization between the end of Wandavision and start of DS2MoM, well, no reason beyond lazy writing.

[@mon_nobi]

@@Ilovegrunge123definitely agree. So many missed opportunities, they are clearly trying to build up something with the young avengers, so why not solidify any threads to bring them back into 616 universe

[@thebigredwave]

Reed Richard's probably completed his universe's Tony starks ultron plan. Thus making it work.

[@JarvisBaileyVA]

I had already checked this out on the podcast but it's still a satisfying listen

[@hushthecipher]

Turns out it was a fun Dr Strange/WandaVision sequel rather then a massive ensemble movie where there were 55 pointless cameos so the audience can point and clap

[@philcorrigan5641]

I thought it was more of a WandaVision sequel actually!

[@superjlk_9538]

It was more like a WandaVision sequel. Strange barely got any development

[@hushthecipher]

@@philcorrigan5641 Your right imma edit

[@bellkanen1998]

@@superjlk_9538 Pay closer attention when you watch movies please

[@KamvsTheWorld]

@@superjlk_9538 strange literally beat wanda by changing his control freak nature and fixes his watch without magic at the end… he wore a sweater…

[@jamesrobinson9916]

The trailers were about Strange, having nightmares, fighting an evil Strange, arrested, going before the Illuminati, "Lets find out what kind of Strange you are." "The real threat to the universe is you (Strange)." "You can't control everything Strange!" The whole movie was about Wanda. It was Wandavision season 2 while we missed a crucial step in Wanda becoming corrupted. She went from remorseful and having a major arch by the end of Wandavision to full on psychotic in 15 minutes of MoM. I see now why the trailers were all about Strange because they could not really show ANYTHING about Wanda because of spoilers. I walked out feeling conflicted and I realize now I felt misled about all of it.

[@Beastinvader]

Exactly what you said. I thought it would deal with Strange's demons after playing with time and magic so much, with all his issues personified in a hellish villlain. I thought Wanda would have a supporting role like he had in No Way Home. Not completely supplant him as the focus of the villain.

[@thesnipingspider3852]

That’s kinda on you thinking Wanda was redeemed from the end of wandavision. She isn’t a good person. She killed Agatha because she was trying to take her powers and then once she embraced the scarlet witch and used the dark hold in the end of the show she fully became evil . She never got redeemed into a good guy.

[@ThatSadBoi_]

@@thesnipingspider3852 did she kill her? I don’t recall her killing her just turning her back into a hex like state.

[@chasethecolors]

@@thesnipingspider3852 yeah, but she did feel remorse about what she did. Remember the talks with Vision where he showed her how wrong she’s been? And her apologizing to Monica? She isn’t a good or a bad person, but she leans toward good-it was her pain and loss that made her go bad in WV. The only reason she went full evil here was because of the Darkhold.

[@chasethecolors]

Exactly how I felt. Even though the Darkhold corrupted her and I understand that logic, it kinda undid all of her progression in WandaVision.

[@liamwilson6040]

I wish we saw more of Wanda becoming more evil and more desperate. I feel like at the end of WandaVision and Start of MOM, we see a noticeable difference in her. I would've also preferred an 15 (R?) rating cause it could've been gorier, I wanna see captain carters torso slide off to the ground or Black Bolts head actually explode. I enjoyed a lot of the cinematography but it didn't look as cool as the first film, would've preferred if it was more mind boggling, imagine how cool it would be if the universe with the illuminati had really goofy physics like people walking up walls or on ceilings using Reeds tech, Mutants and Inhumans existed in that universe, they could've just had random people cutting about using powers. they probably couldn't do all of this, it would cost way too much but the main universes that they visited were not as mad as they could've been

[@DK-zl5gb]

The Wanda in MOM isn't the same as Wandavision

[@thejoesco]

Touching back on their point about whether there was a different way (regarding the snap), I think there was. I feel the writers were showcasing this when they showed alternate Strange’s fate and how he was able to defeat Thanos with the Darkhold, although this may have cost him his life or made him a bigger threat.

[@alwaysabiggafish3305]

I saw the same argument in Schafrilla's video but the argument is ridiculously short sighted. The multiverse was mainly used for character variants, as it always has and always will be used for, in the mcu.

[@jacquelinejones7787]

I would say this was a multiverse of madness the same way civil war was a civil war. For the MCU, its pretty much what I expected. I enjoyed it, and found myself wishing they would have taken it a little bit further

[@jeffreynunya4716]

Or Age of Ultron was really a week of Ultron. It's just a title, I don't know why people take them so seriously or set expectations based on them. The movie involves a multiverse and a person going mad, that's all you need. They needed to call it something, and didn't want to just call it Doctor Strange 2.

[@stevesamuals2651]

I'm going to say yes, it was misleading. We were expecting a travel through the multiverse with Wanda chasing them down and alot of cool ideas. What we got was every character making stupid decisions, one new universe, and a plot which dies in the second act

[@conorowens8382]

The movie we got was better than your idea

[@stevesamuals2651]

@@conorowens8382 any idea I have is better then what we got.

[@hatefulgaming1800]

@@conorowens8382 Stop lying bro

[@conorowens8382]

@@stevesamuals2651 yeah thats why you get paid millions of dollars to make movies..........oh wait

[@conorowens8382]

@@hatefulgaming1800 you just wanted 120 minutes of cameos Thank God that's not what we ended up with

[@RealCarlosPerez]

I also noticed Wongs hair! I thought I was crazy!

[@hunterweeks6091]

I didn't think there would be more cameo characters. I just thought the ones we got would matter

[@afriendofjamis]

From the beginning the marketing always felt more geared towards the Madness more than the Multiverse. It wasn't until NWH where they started hyping up the Multiverse aspects. I went in expecting more madness than multiverse and wasn't disappointed.

[@maker6153]

I think the thing I enjoyed the most about the film was that it really embraces the moral greyness of the alternate reality heroes. In the comics, the mainline Illuminati eventually have to stoop to the levels of the others before them and they begin destroying worlds without remorse because it’s what must be done. If anyone read anything in the lead up to the 2015 secret wars, they’ll know that the way this Illuminati was destroyed was goddamn mercy. Lol.

[@Ahatch0788]

Watching a year late and just wanted to congratulate you for that Secret Wars callout

[@J.O.R.D]

The Illuminati clearly dealt with Thanos before he even got to Earth so they’ve kept that to themselves and the other heroes don’t know about it and Chavez probably just hasn’t come across a Spider-Man, unlikely, but possible! And Strange knows who Spider-Man is just not that he’s Peter Parker, it was the most simple spell how are people getting confused by this 😅

[@Kabaladamawomasp]

Really enjoyed that they made alot more use of the boundries that age ratings permit. I would love for them to go more in this direction, not necessarily "grughhhh adult deep dark serious content only", but just tackle the more fucked up storylines the comics tackle, or allow for more violence. Fuck the family friendly audience, make things fun!

[@pat7917]

I agree. And I bet they will do this if they can find a way to push the envelope without limiting the audience or the amount of money they can rake in. It’s all about that $$$ at the end of the day. Lol😂

[@BlinksAwakening]

I think I realized why I was expecting this movie to be so different (though I do like it for what it is), and it's not that the name implied a bigger adventure (though that was certainly a part of it), but it was that trailer at the end of No Way Home's end credits. It connected some dots in my head that Dr. Strange 2 would be much more closely tied to the events of Spider-Man No Way Home, I remember that initial trailer feeling like the implication is that the plot would be about Dr. Strange having to pay for the damage he did to the multiverse from the events of No Way Home. Some of the things stated in that trailer really made me think that's exactly where the plot was going, wish I could remember exactly what it was that was said though.

[@BiologyIsHot]

Yeah they even said in interviews "it's like a sequel to WandaVision and no way home" meanwhile it's like 3 finale episodes to WandaVision that nobody actually asked for and kind of ruined the overall beauty of that series.

[@ClarenceSearles]

That musical scene gave me some real kung fu hustle vibes totally loved it!

[@Eddafred]

I think the whole 'Didn't you chart in the 60s?' jab is a Beetles reference. One of their nicknames back then was the Fab Four.

[@kiptelgat]

When Wanda broke into the Baxter building, it felt like Reed and Xavier died too fast; black bolt's death made sense and there wasn't anything they could do without magic. However, Reed can control his body to the cell it'd been cool if she grabs him and he just barely escapes by becoming liquid-like, so her attack is harder to finish or not as effective on him. His death also hurt the movie because she just could've done that to Captain Carter anytime, she's just Captain America with a jetpack she still has to get close to Wanda like Reed in order to attack. For Xavier, he should've been a bigger challenge to Wanda since he is the strongest telepath and telepathy is just a secondary power for Wanda. At the very least, it should be a stalemate being its her first mental battle and she wins because she uses magic to split her conscious (like at the end of Wandavision) and maybe she needs to use a lot of her magic within the mind plane to keep up with Xavier so she just snaps his neck with her hands while her other conscious is stuck fighting Xavier. Maybe this has a temporary strain on her magic, her other conscious is a bit beat up so her powers are off, or its taking some time for all of her conscious to escape xaviers mind because of the amt of magic used. This would explain why she didn't use the move that killed Reed on them when she was chasing them.

[@jp12x]

I got exactly what I hoped for: the best version of this movie. Imagine what a garbage fire it could have been if Raimi faced resistance from producers and actors and had a tantrum. How bad could it have been? Instead, we got a great, fun ride with the Raimi going up as the horror went up.

[@sauce8277]

It is quite obvious this is not the best version of what movie this could have been. Assuming all the things you loved about this movie would be gone if it was changed is probably the problem. Writing was just bad as what Marvel normally puts out these days other then a couple of episodes of What If……

[@brandonmunsen6035]

lol

[@FiggityJones]

@@sauce8277 Why do you think the writing is bad? 🤔

[@Rassillon1234]

i loved it aswell. it felt like even two universes were too much for a movie. and people wanted to see more?

[@sauce8277]

@@FiggityJones 1. The entire plot’s premise- there is a obviously a alternative reality in which Wanda died and her kids are orphaned and need a mother. 2. The instant “I’m going to change”from Wanda vision to killer without any character development. In case you don’t know, using the darkhold as the explanation doesn’t excuse them from executing it as the explanation with the character development and proper writing. 3. Abuse of beloved characters for cameos sake. I’m glad Mr Fantastic’s writing was there to prove what a train wreck it was for those who can’t see it. 4. MULTIPLE unnecessary mcguffins. 5. Seriously stupid writing like “cover the puddles!” *life is threatened but looks In the puddle anyway* No. horror doesn’t equal stupidity from characters. Try again Rami. 6. “No ones every survived, it’s dangerous!” *Literally makes it there almost instantly* I get it’s because she’s the scarlet witch. That was a obviously just dumb writing to make wong give up the information on the spells. 7. I could keep going but I’m being general because this is what you should actually do[look below] There are quite a few videos on it with honest criticisms. I would watch multiple spoiler reviews for alternative viewpoints. One of the best way to learn in general and acquire information you weren’t even aware of.

[@chriscampanozzi6516]

Always enjoy your content. Thank you.

[@mrsundaymovies]

You’re welcome, thanks for watching!

[@nickdirienzo2849]

Glad you finally figured out how to do proper volume control. No blame on you Ben they're recording.

[@RobertDanielParisi]

I can understand why some might have been disappointed as well, but I absolutely loved this movie!!! The cameos were fun but my favourite part was the horror elements that Sam Raimi brought to the table. It was great seeing Rami’s style in a Dr. Strange movie. Without giving spoilers I also thought the villain was terrifying!! But in a fun horror movie kind of way and the performance was brilliant. Hands down my favorite MCU villain up there with Thanos and Green Goblin.

[@frenchfriedbagel7035]

There’s nothing really wrong with the movie. I didn’t hate anything about the movie. But the sheer scale that “multiverse of madness” eludes to the movie never delivers on. I was expecting the movie to be a multiverse hoping adventure where their conflict with whoever the villain is would get them caught by the Illuminati. Which I thought was going to be some kind of multiverse protection force, not just an Avengers variant. And then they do more multiverse hopping, we get a massive final battle and movie ends. What we got actually felt like a smaller scale than the first movie.

[@DeathmetalPersian]

@@frenchfriedbagel7035 Literally everything is wrong with the movie. Doctor Strange is inept throughout the entire thing and doesn't succeed at anything he does. The entire way the Multiverse works is a huge plot hole because it contradicts endgame AND loki. He has to stumble through the movie being carried by the plot rather than his own choices the entire time. The entire movie was just a front to bring aMeRiCa cHaVez into the MCU, even though shes one of the worst selling comics and most hated new characters of all time. Stop making excuses for Disneys shit story telling and forced wokeness. You sound like every blue haired soccer mom who thinks capeshit exists solely to entertain their kids while you chug wine and scroll though facebook.

[@mon_nobi]

@@frenchfriedbagel7035 very well said

[@pat7917]

I was relishing in the violence & glorious evil moments with Wanda. No redheads for me after this!! She is right up there with Thanos in my book.

[@RobertDanielParisi]

@@frenchfriedbagel7035 that is 100% fair! I completely get that. The title of the movie, while technically fitting, is misleading in that it does imply a multiversal story on an epic scale. I too was expecting that based on the title and trailer. But for me, as soon as I sat down in my theatre chair I was sucked into the story immediately and kind of forgot my expectations lol. I was just so happy with everything I was seeing I didn’t really care that we weren’t hopping from universe to universe since I was so engaged with what I was seeing. But again, your point is valid and I can see how that would have been disappointing to a lot of people. I think that is most likely a common complaint among the people who didn’t like/were let down by the film.

[@spacepopeXIV]

I think John Krasinski as Mr. Fantastic is pretty much absolute proof that fans don't know shit about casting. Like the guys said, it just didn't feel like Reed Richards, to me it just felt like some guy playing a generic superhero or not even, just some guy playing a generic guy. Fans just wanted him cause then him and Emily Blunt can be the iconic couple, which is a bonkers reason to cast someone.

[@kidkatanatv]

OG Reed and even Fan4stic Reed were more Reed than Reed, MCU Reed was just way too dumb

[@ExhaustedWombat]

I kind of thought he was perfectly cast for what they did with him to be honest. Like I wouldn’t waste perfect casting on someone who is going to get their shit immediately rocked.

[@hehasaspaceship4229]

The Weekly Planet is the best comic book movie news platform cause it's the only one to pronounce Ioan Gruffydd's name right, right down to the "th" sound for the dd at the end, diolch bois

[@johansmallberries9874]

As long as Hollywood keeps pushing the importance of “opening weekend box office” as some kind of very important metric, we’ll keep getting trailers that give away too much or the best shots. That “dessert before dinner effect”.

[@RedStar441]

Honestly I was hoping that it was an evil doctor strange just mad with power. Strange is thrown in a fight to other dimensions and meets the illuminati. All in all the movie is mess. A poorly thought out and inconsistent mess.

[@phillipjohnson8903]

I say we were robbed of more zombie Dr. Strange, that part was everything I wanted out of this movie

[@ABSallah1]

Forgot to mention the artifact Christine uses to fight the demons and Strange didn't know how to use it in strange 1

[@TylorHuebner]

Seeing a more director focused film really makes me wish even more that we got the Edgar wright Ant-Man

[@zigguratjones6458]

I always thought about that. Thanks to Feige for putting his foot down and and demanding his own formulaic take on it. How boring.

[@Yesthatsmyfirstname]

I'm so glad I only watched the first trailer because I loved this movie and so many people seem to take issue with it due to having seeing all the trailers. This definitely one of my all-time favourite movies in general and probably favorite MCU movie. The only thing I think they should have done differently was drop Deadpool in at some random time without ever once addressing it. Like just like when they were flying through the different universes in that one scene, just have them fly through one where Deadpool is there on Blind Al's couch and he goes "Did you see that? Of course you didn't you're blind. Shit no one's going to believe me now." And that's it, never address it never go back to it just move on. Outside of that and one other thing, everything about this movie was amazing and it is one of my favorite hands down. The only other issue I took with it was Wanda "dying" via a rock fall. I really hope they don't end 616 Wanda that way. I know they could bring in a different universe one but I don't want to see that. I want to see our Wanda redeemed. Like cut to White Vision all of a sudden "feeling" something is wrong, how Vision said " I just feel you" White Vision all of a sudden has that connection and feels something happened to her. He goes to the mountain and finds her, digs her out and touches her face then says that line "I just feel you" and his stone turns orange again. If they want to kill her, let that be the final moment. But I'd rather they still not kill her after that.

[@CallMeFi]

I don't watch trailers and I really didn't like this movie so unfortunately that didn't help me haha!

[@Yesthatsmyfirstname]

@@CallMeFi what didn't you like?

[@thesnipingspider3852]

@@Yesthatsmyfirstname for me I just thought that something was just missing. Idk what it just felt lackluster and just kinda meh