Dismissive-Avoidant or Narcissist? Learn the Truth!

[@Kestrel99]

Excellent! A narcissist will pull someone out of “secure attachment” into “insecure attachment” and then belittle you as being too sensitive, crazy jealous, etc. Get away as fast and as far from these people as possible! They don’t care about you they only care about themselves and hurting you. Hurting people makes them feel good.

[@ashton1952]

🎯

[@lalo1967]

I am speechless 😢😮 I was pretty sure I was secure in the past. Indeed, I was!! Now I am anxious😢 Thanks a lot for your brilliant explanation🙏

[@CGermain-s6l]

This is true I was secure and after 13 years I was reduced to a Sobbing baby and could not talk when discarded…Now I am back to my Strong Confident Secure attachment with Gods Help…all praise to The Most High..

[@davidaikman2968]

Amen!! I was with the same narcissist 3 times over the course of 20 years. The reason I returned twice was to own and correct my bad behaviors I felt contributed to the previous breakup. I behaved beautifully “secure” on the last go round but his behavior toward me was the same. He is gross. He is toxic. He is BLOCKED from my life. Thank you for the critique of advocates for dismissive avoidants. Their advice for how to get through to these partners always feels like game strategy. A gaslighting of one’s self. The push pull love style of these people isn’t healthy, isn’t nourishing, isn’t real love. And their partners should be given grace for acting “dramatically “ when put in dramatic situations.

[@r.bishop1127]

When someone makes you a detective to understand them, rather than caring about you understanding them directly...trash they gotta go. Pretty sure my recent ex is cluster b flavored. I thought DA by 7 months. The push pull was unreal. Love bombing, silent treatments, rigidity, lack of empathy, manipulative. I don't care anymore what he is! He's damaged my mental health and landed me here being a detective.

[@Unbreakablechic]

After following the personal development school i swore that the ex was a DA Fast forward, he is a toxic covert narc. Pathological liar, cheater and extremely sneaky. I'm no contact.

[@vernonsdiamond]

I'm in the same boat. Five years watching PDS videos trying to modify my behaviour. In the end he psychologically tortured and punished me for speaking about my feelings and needs and replaced me. Total covert narc.

[@VeronicaUSA]

I also watched Personal Develooing school videos that info isn't correct?

[@sillymamacita3854]

​@@VeronicaUSAI'm a very big fan of PDS so take this with that info. The difference between DA and narcissist, as told to me by my therapist, is that the DA most often goes inward and shuts down in a way to feel safe, whereas narcissists go outwards and attack others when they don't meet their needs. My husband is a DA and my bff's husband is a true narcissist so I have a front row seat to the difference and this has been my experience as well. My husband has never attacked me verbally or in any other way, but he does shut down easily, and then he truly feels bad for it. He needs therapy but that's for him to work out. My bff's husband has completely destroyed her self-esteem. He's a monster, truly. It's behaviors that are a pattern and they are pervasive. So on a list of 20 narcissistic traits, he consistently checks all 20 traits consistently, for over 20 years of these same behaviors as the rule, not the exception. I hope this helps!! ❤

[@ashton1952]

PDS is excellent, I think people just love their partners so we try to excuse them and find the good instead of seeing reality. Narcissism has very specific identifiable traits/behavior to identify them because it's a clinical disorder. The biggest differences between narcs and DA's I'd say is that narcs have zero empathy, whereas DA's do, and narcs love drama and confrontation and DA's avoid that. Covert narcs also like to criticize excessively, whereas DA's, speaking for myself anyway, don't like to criticize our partner, we'd rather stay quiet or say it in a roundabout way, to not upset the person.

[@ashton1952]

​​@@vernonsdiamondNarcs if only we could have identified them sooner. After a marriage to a covert and later a long term relationship with a grandiose, I had difficulty with letting anyone in and realized that I had become DA as a way of surviving. Trying to work on healing, and hopefully we can find healthy relationships next time, not another narc; at least we now know what to look out for.

[@tinacanavan7477]

I agree avoidants can be abusive

[@marguskiis7711]

They are

[@erikavaleries]

“Attached” came out during my abuse & separation - I went that route and continued to believe my ex simply didn’t know or understand enough to get help. I went down every pop psychology path to “understand” his deep trauma and how men are not allowed to have feelings blah blah blah - meanwhile he just didn’t care about acting like a decent person!

[@margaretbrown6429]

❤😊😊

[@Fairgreentube]

I think men in general don’t value themselves as much because many were told in early adolescence to value the girls: Ladies first Open the door for her Pull her chair out Take her coat Walk her out Pay for her meal These are all acts of kindness but in the unconscious mindset of a male it could harbor either resentment towards ladies, envy, jealousy, or it could create a belief that men are just not valuable. It’s a theory that if boys and girls are made to feel valued at an early age they feel valued and appreciated therefore identifying with more of a secure attachment style.

[@Apbt-rv7zw]

Well said, yes I don't see the difference between Avoidants and Narcissism. Thanks for saying it as it is.

[@KimSaeed]

You are most welcome...

[@BiscuitsNGravy-p3l]

@@KimSaeedYes, thank you for saying this. As someone who went through two toxic relationships with two women, one a “DA” and one that showed strong covert narc traits, they were no damn different. When they both started cheating, they showed the exact same signs. That’s why I was able to catch on to the second one so fast because of the 💩 the first one did.

[@birthinfluenceembrace]

I really APPRECIATE how you are stating the truth that how other youtubers are saying that the distancing behaviours exhibited by DA SHOULD be tolerated and can be healed is NOT TO BE taken into consideration!!! It is so true. 💯💯💯

[@chinablue135]

Finally someone talking sense ! Thank you for this. The so called experts justify toxic instability that is very harmful to vulnerable people who are already confused and blaming themselves. Thank you for sharing this ❤

[@KimSaeed]

My pleasure!! °❀⋆.ೃ࿔*:･

[@dclarke1896]

I have come to the conclusion that I have a severe allergy to narcissistic/toxic individuals.😷

[@dant1724]

I appreciate your distinction of the D-A characteristics. Seeking clarity through an empathetic lens of self- compassion, I have become aware of the harm this attachment style has caused my loved ones. I remained faithful within my intimate relationships (did not lie and cheat). My inability to effectively communicate my needs, my boundaries, creating space and distance to process conflicts and the inability to resolve conflicts, nonetheless caused me to appear like someone with a cluster B personality. To have people (non -professionals) pathologize me, diagnosis me, and put me in a box lacks humility and true understanding. These deactivating strategies are rooted in shame and/or the ANS and are being healed within me through awareness/consciousness work, metacognition and embodiment. ❤ Earning my secure attachment 💪

[@BlakeAdams.]

"If your insecure attachment is due to another person't abusive or manipulative behavior, that is more a trauma response than an insecure attachment style." I have been an AP for years, but I have earned secure. In this last relationship, I had thought it was me and that I hadn't grown. Thank you so much for that. You don't know how much it means.

[@dclarke1896]

Dismissive-avoidant and narcissistic people will both leave you feeling like 💩. Therefore they are the same to me. That is my experience after dating “both” types of men.

[@KimSaeed]

I haven't seen a single, microcosmic difference between the two, either. It's just a way for the mainstream to romanticize toxic behaviors.

[@kuunami]

Same here.

[@BiscuitsNGravy-p3l]

⁠@@KimSaeedThis. My ex “DA” gf discarded me after reading the book ‘Attached’ and “figuring out” she is a Dismissive Avoidant. However, she is a big liar, cheater - this woman cheated on me one time early Sunday morning before we were supposed to go to church services. I happened to be up and was able to put the pieces together after doing a little detective work. After watching your video, I am convinced this “DA” 💩 is just a new name for covert narcissism. Luckily, my ex did not destroy me or damage me too bad because I started picking up the 🚩 months ago.

[@DazzledCat]

My world is shattered. I wanted to believe he was avoidant. I‘m a shell of myself

[@ashton1952]

@@jodijodi6228 with that effect, he was probably the vulnerable narc. They can be subtle and we even feel bad calling them a narc

[@neen9438]

There are many variatys in narcism. Not all are grandiose.

[@DazzledCat]

@@jodijodi6228 thank you dear jodi. I just saw your comment now. I hope you‘re doing well, everything that you described I feel to my core and I feel validated and not alone. You are right, we are strong, much stronger than we think 🤍

[@twostepsbackwards4992]

Even if he is he can’t be a good partner either way

[@raanfo]

@DazzledCat I hope you are doing OK now xx

[@dustinquinton]

My best advise is, run from a DA, and definitely a narcissist.

[@ashton1952]

Narcs usually FA, at the first sign of provoking intense fights and blaming you for everything, run like hell

[@dustinquinton]

@@ashton1952 you get mad for what they have done and then they say that you have anger issues.

[@ashton1952]

@@dustinquinton true, I learned quickly not to point out anything he had done wrong, because of the rage fit or physical violence that followed.

[@dustinquinton]

@@ashton1952 I hope that you have distanced yourself from him?!?!

[@marguskiis7711]

Most single women over 45 are avoidants.

[@chxwv]

book called "attached" made me want to give my ex second chance and she caused me an accident that has resulted in my life turning upside down and when she saw me in pain she conveniently devised a reverse discard and had no problem with leaving me all alone when i needed someone the most to deal with one medical complication after another. Hope people pay attention to what you said about the BS of attachment style as the reason of their callous behavior

[@erikavaleries]

Similar situation - my divorce was during my chronic illness getting bad and I wasted years on this misguided self help

[@steadypace1262]

I believe that a narcissist in your life especially if they are your partner can cause you to have bad luck. Narcissist's have a bad negative energy and it can feel quite creepy at times.

[@Alieortwo]

​@@steadypace1262 Yes and it stays for a long time after you left. You age also.

[@steadypace1262]

@@Alieortwo Yes the bad health a lot of Survivor's suffer is caused by continually trying to cope with the narcissist's inappropriate words and actions, it does age you quickly.👴👵

[@UnacceptableTee]

@@jodijodi6228what’s the difference? Abuse is abuse whether it’s intentional or not. At some point the DA awakes to it all after several conversations ; betrayals; lies; and hurtful behaviors and therapy. If they still don’t change; it’s time to move on regardless of the title. Abuse and disrespect is what it is regardless of title.

[@pamaylward]

Great video Kim! Thank you so much for pointing this out. I completely agree with you and I wish I'd just listened to my intuition instead of delving into research, modifying my own behaviours, and enabling an abusive partner for way too many years.

[@jodijodi6228]

I literally have done the same thing, diving into too much information. I would get lost in all the narcissist information because a lot of it paralleled but a lot of it did not so I was very confused. Then I read the book the attachment, which I’m truly grateful for because it did give me a clear perspective. it made me separate the idea of the narcissist, being a monster, and the avoidant not being quite as dark… But like she explains in this video, it is still toxic. There is still a degree of manipulation, and even selfishness. Including the bottom line of the ability for them to discard you if you get too close. He still sends me messages of undying love, that I am perfect in every way… That he wants to jump in headfirst, but doesn’t know why he can’t, so I remain compartmentalized, drained, giving… with the image of an engagement, but no true commitment to a wedding date… .However, I finally said goodbye as painful as it has been, I am still picking up the pieces of my shattered heart and moving forward. Today marks eight weeks. Every time he sends me another loving text with a casual “would love to meet up to catch up… “…So confusing, but I won’t look back because I simply want someone who can reciprocate, it’s that simple. Not that I deserve better but I just want open communication and reciprocation..

[@pamaylward]

@@jodijodi6228 You DO deserve better.

[@johnkarl8921]

I struggled over 20 years to love and have a reciprocal relationship thinking she was a DA . She also had narcissistic behaviours, creating rows and being extremely controlling, manipulative and at time very abusive. I was anxious attached myself although over the years and after going through therapy ( due to that toxic relationship and loss of my identity through the controlling gaslighting projection etc) I became far more emotionally independent and resilient to her behaviours. She never changed except to grow worse. I thought attachment styles can change. If DA people seek love etc. Why don't they change when being shown love and understanding? If its another insecure anxious attachment style why doesn't it change like the anxious styles can ? It does make it Questionable whether it is a true attachment style or more a form of psychopathy. To withhold affection treat your partner with contempt and devalue them is abuse . I finally gave up the saviour rescuer role and left her as she was dragging me down and Sabotaging the positivity therapy had given me. Thanks again for your honest approach to this subject.

[@jenster29]

I don't care anymore what it is. A personality disorder or an attachment style. It makes no difference in how I am left feeling or being treated. The silent treatment that lasts for weeks doesn't feel easier because he he might be DA. I've given 22 years, 3 kids and I feel burnt out. I honestly never thought we'd end up like this, I was in this for life. Last Christmas eve was my final straw, no drama, no shouting , nothing.. he had no clue that I gave up that day... I'm glad you got out. I have a ways to go.

[@garywillett6396]

Thank you for adding clarity to the danger of underestimating oneself to justify or “soften” the behavior patterns of truly toxic people. This helped me tremendously, because it explained my own experience in doubting the security I felt in relationships when dealing with an emotionally juvenile 68 year old man. ❤😊

[@eileendom5858]

Wow finally this adds up. I wondered how can someone who was neglected as a child according to Attachment style be so mean. I wondered why DA get to be who they are and we just adjust ourselves and insecurities. If they never admit they have a problem, then they won’t ever care to change. It always sounded to me like a narcissist, but the others claim Narcs are very rare. Thanks for this video.

[@garywillett6396]

I agree with your assessment of this personality disorder. I won’t accept anything but secure people. ❤

[@user-ltyz9380]

I totally agree with this take. I see so many psychologists and mental health therapists talk about DAs in a sympathetic tone, which causes empathetic individuals to tolerate abusive treatment and not leave. And even if there IS such thing as dimissive avoidant attachment style, they are rarely willing to truly work on and heal their trauma. This makes them narcissistic in nature, which will end up in you being used, abused, and manipulated. But people want to hold onto toxic relationships so they romanticize who they are and paint a different picture of them rather than see the reality. Unless these influencers/teachers also expose their toxic side, their perspectives about DAs are sadly imbalanced.

[@KimSaeed]

Everything you said...

[@arankagionetti2098]

Avoidant person = master emotional manipulaters very high skillet abusers !

[@ashton1952]

They can be but not all; some are just avoiding the abuse, having come out of that situation. Individuals are different and a lot is about intentions

[@UnacceptableTee]

💯

[@zebrastripes3786]

@@ashton1952they’re the same. They put their partners through the same idolize,devalue and discard cycles. Just because they feel bad about it afterwards or it’s for their protection don’t make a difference to the person on the receiving end.

[@JustErics101]

@@zebrastripes3786 there’s a lot of overgeneralizing going on in these comments. First of all people don’t nearly fall into the four attachment styles or whatever, there can be different shades of attachments. I’m a DA who is trying to heal, I’ve never even been in a relationship that’s how bad my fears of intimacy are. I will start going on dates with someone, and when it gets more personal I would pull out and make a bunch of excuses. I didn’t really know what was going on at the time. I do now though.

[@marguskiis7711]

​@@JustErics101large majority of comments show how similar avoidants act. They do everything the same. Differences are really minor.

[@steadypace1262]

Yes I agree Kim. There is no excuse for abuse.

[@badfinancial_decisions8989]

I cried listening to this because you literally described my wife.

[@Mechanically_Speaking]

Those brain abnormalities are also symptoms caused by narcissistic abuse

[@kathyschneider5443]

Yes this happened to me!! A good counselor set me straight. Thank God!! She urged me to leave and a year later I did!

[@dianequigley6450]

I'm glad you have acknowledged that dismissive avoidant attachment is NOT the same as narcissism. As an adult child of a narcissistic mother...I have a avoidant strategy but am far from abusive...although can seem cold when self protecting

[@VP-kw5rq]

Wow thank you so much for your clear explanation on this topic. Now I am sure I was just emotional abused and there is nothing in my power to change the course of the relationship.

[@wespenre3418]

Thank you! You're the first and only one I know of who speaks the truth on this matter! Finally!

[@elizabethparkes1581]

Thank you! That was very clear , harmful behaviour are not acceptable in an avoidant attachment style.

[@KimSaeed]

Glad it was helpful!

[@anothercat9600]

Some of these coaches are actually married to a narcissist/manipulator, I noticed one yesterday. They are unknowingly codependents, and teach the doormat behaviour, even if in words they say "This us about understanding, Not about being a doormat!"

[@adamburges4807]

its hard not to see the lack of emotional availability as emotional abuse, its hard not to see passive agreesiveness and dismissive behaviours as control. There's a fine line on the spectrum that crosses over and as hard as it is to try and work out at the end of the day if it's not right for you, it's not acceptable. Move on!

[@sherriflemming3218]

Thanks Kim, your definition is precise.

[@johnkarl8921]

Thanks for this enlightening look at the DA attachment style. I've been in a torturous 20 year Rollercoaster ride with my partner who I think is a covert narcissist/ dismissive avoidant. She's highly manipulative, controlling, unwilling to accept any accountability, cold and has little empathy, very self centered and entitled, ungrateful, critical, jealous, all hidden under a cloak n mask of being a charming caring kind loving sweet little lady to her family and friends. Only I get the other stuff. I had childhood issues with neglect and abuse grew up not allowed friends living in fear of my so called parents but it didn't make me a DA I became a people pleaser with anxious attachment. Too much real psychology has got into pop culture with endless labels classifying traits that can be simply defined in old time words like being mean selfish cruel lying cheating stealing arrogant bitchy ****holes . When I came across the DA style it made me more sympathetic to hope that by giving her the space she increasingly wanted she might open up to be more reciprocal to my love. Nothing changed! She love bombed me in the beginning then quickly displayed a controlling manipulative passive aggressive nature. I was really little more than her handyman doing endless jobs around her home and garden. She'd turn on the loving treatment until the job was done then get back into her poor dismissive style till next time. The behaviour made me physically ill with high b.p. stomach problems Psoriasis outbreak anxiety and depression. I got counselling/ therapy which helped me. My mother (who never liked her) passed away during covid and disinherited me leaving her house and everything to her niece as she feared my partner would get it. My friends had long given up on listening to my problems while ignoring their advice to leave her. She got more dismissive as I came out of therapy still trying to break my self esteem down! I finally left her 5 months ago and it's the only time she hasn't hoovered me back. It's either because she has someone new ? ( she wanted lots of space time) or she realised she's lost control of me. I totally agree you shouldn't assess your attachment style when in a relationship to anyone with a DA or narcissistic style and there really is no difference because abuse is abuse! False hope just enables more abuse. Thanks Kim for calling this out for what it is.

[@jodijodi6228]

I can so relate and empathize with your story… Seven years with my avoidant completely confused with all the narcissist information. Although there was some narcissistic traits, there was not all the traits. So then I would remove the idea that he is a monster, and that he Just needs the little space and I need to be more understanding… This may not be a narcissistic loop but being in an avoidant loop is equally painful. The avoidance still has the ability like the narcissist to eventually discard you when they realize they can no longer manipulate or control you… Basically, it’s still abuse. Thank you for sharing your story somehow makes me not feel so alone as I navigate rebuilding self esteem and breaking the sad bond.. I just can’t wait to be on the other side of all this.. I finally ended it and today marks the eight weeks.

[@johnkarl8921]

Thanks for your feedback and sharing your story. I guess hurt people hurt people and there certainly is common traits between the DA and covert narcissist. If you haven't looked into attachment Theory it's enlightening stuff. Dismissive avoidants aren't comfortable around intimacy ,seeing it as threatening to their independence and probably didn't have secure bonding in infancy thereby learning to self soothe and become distrusting of closeness. They can want to be in control not just of their lives but other peoples too. Not receiving their love or attention is hurtful and leads to losing yourself trying to please the DA . I had an anxious attachment style due to my upbringing but became a people pleaser trying to earn love and self validation. If you're with a narcissistic type that's great for them as you give they take but their giving is bread crums. People can change if they own their baggage and work together to understand your needs. However if they aren't willing I think it's best to focus on oneself. I found myself in a Black hole of depression and anxiety until I went through therapy. Everything is energetic and compatability is vital. I wish you well and that you find happiness.

[@jodijodi6228]

@@johnkarl8921 today Mark’s nine weeks for me. I have my first therapy appointment on Monday. I just want to feel better already. I am exhausted with feeling sad.

[@ashton1952]

@john Does she have a big victim-mentality too? Sounds like a classic covert narcissist

[@johnkarl8921]

​@ashton1952 Hi Ashton yes ! It's the default self defence mode she used to avoid accountability and blame me/others. Having learnt about covert/vulnerable narcissists the classic behaviours are playing victim, blaming, gaslighting, passive aggression like giving you the silent treatment or ghosting you. Total lack of communication by either being outright defensive or if they are cornered into accountability just changing the subject and going off point to distract your focus, word salad is the term. Anything to create confusion! gaslighting you.That and playing Victim creates cognitive dissonance in you till you feel sorry you even tried to raise the issue! Going back to attachment Theory , where patterns of relating begin, perhaps there's 2 main tracks you take to get your needs met, either trying to please your care giver mum,dad,whoever by doing what seems to work in a toddlers world or a narcissist track where you manipulate and learn to take what you need/want. It plays out in later life as being either a people pleaser trying to win/earn love and and validation ( also manipulative of course) or a narcissist who deliberately tries to control , manipulate, fake take and steal what they want. The DA doesn't trust others to remain constant ( like a neglectful parent is unreliable) Also they don't have capacity for intimacy because they didn't get it with their care giver and it feels uncomfortable in later life. The trouble is feeling sorry for the DA hoping you can love them into changing / rescue them. Hasn't worked in my experience. It's hard separating the dismissive avoidant from the narcissist due to similar characteristics. I gave up trying! Hurt people hurt people and abuse is abuse. That's why I like Kim's approach. I'm no therapist, it's my opinion only. It's so draining and soul destroying being with either type I think it's better to leave and find someone who can reciprocate love, take accountability and share a real relationship. Sorry for such a long answer to your question. Yes! didn't seem good enough. Best wishes to you.

[@heathermixson1265]

Thank you for this clarification, Kim...........

[@konvict451]

So is she saying that there is no such thing as a DA because she seems to talk about them like they're as rare as unicorns

[@joev7014]

I don’t personally believe DAs exist…. Not even AP. I believe the wrong people will just make you insecure. My ex was a “DA” and I realized it’s pretty much dealing with a child… they can’t communicate and make you feel like they aren’t even there while giving attention to everyone else… just move on. It becomes pointless playing these games

[@BiscuitsNGravy-p3l]

@@joev7014My “DA” ex gf loved social media and being secretive with her cell phone. She was notorious for posting pictures like she was at events alone even when I was with her. I’m sure some of the DMs she received were hookups with guys. Oh, yeah, she contracted Herpes as well. Glad she’s gone.

[@andavee]

YOU ARE REALLY GOOD!

[@dramafan08]

Interesting that they’re missing grey matter. So they’re really not all there.

[@sadadevries5875]

😂😂😂

[@marguskiis7711]

Avoidants act very very similar way.

[@mint_soup9743]

Thank you 💔

[@deb2319]

haha the intro! Both! Thanks Kim!

[@berserker3414]

I'm pretty sure it's a trauma response at this point, since I'm secure or not this "emotionally disregulated" in my other relationships and I used to be happy, relaxed and social before getting close to them. I just need to forget them

[@stephgrippe142]

Sorry I am a DA dx with runaway bride.. I am in no means a narc but was married to one. Many of nights cried myself to sleep from his behaviors. People with true NPD is actually very rare...

[@ashton1952]

Narcissistic abuse can sure make someone turn DA. Maybe they're rare but people who've suffered from emotional abuse tend to find them again. But we can heal and also have the advantage of being so much wiser now.

[@J23-n9d]

The only difference is that a narc will run you over on purpose. A DA will not. Honestly avoid both if you want a healthy relationship. Just like everyone, narcs can come in a variety of personalities.

[@BiscuitsNGravy-p3l]

Intent doesn’t matter. If I am still getting the same outcome, being ran over, intent is irrelevant.

[@renohk]

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your love Kim! You are lovely! Spred the truth about this type of behavior.

[@francleighscarlett]

I agree it isn't logical to put DA and Narc in the same sentence. A DA's core wound centers around being overwhelmed with affection, so their deactivation happens when faced with language around feelings. It would be rare to find too many with enough emotional vulnerability to juggle multiple partners (unless they were all very casual) at a time. If a DA is in a committed relationship and goes into withdrawal mode, it's more likely they'd be doing something that involves no or few people. For example, at home but in another room absorbed with TV or games, throwing themselves into their work and not coming home until late, or hanging out with friends but not focusing on couples time. If there is another person, it is likely some long gone ex they are limerant about losing but not necessarily engaging with. When a DA fluctuates hot/cold, it is because they still seek to feel loved; it's just that they don't know what to do with their feelings as soon as they get them. This attachment style was created by being ignored when they sought love as a child. They had to learn to live without (in fact, the same stimulus of an AP; only we think trying harder is the way to go). They don't trust that feeling early on, and it can take years to warm up to the idea that they can display emotion and that their partner will be there for them the next day. Narcs, on the other hand, are looking for you to display emotions; in fact, they're encouraging it so they know what to exploit and devalue when preparing to discard you. That is a massive part of why they love-bomb and future fake. They're testing to see which things illicit the most enthusiastic responses. They will find your core values and weak points and pinpoint those with laser precision to hurt you. When they cheat, it can be either because they know that will torpedo your self-esteem or because they don't have any supply left to get from you and seek it elsewhere - or both! I have been involved with both narcs and DA partners. While DA can be tricky (I'm AP), it is far less stressful and roller-coaster-like than a narc. I'd also be careful of making blanket assessments. I've been with another AP I would have labeled dismissive before I educated myself. His need for constant validation (his father was dismissive) was so desperate that he had multiple secret partners, and often, those partners got younger and younger in an attempt to fill that void. So you can only sometimes be sure what you're dealing with. Of course, everyone has different experiences, and your mileage may vary.

[@ashton1952]

Spot on, these terms get confused a lot. FA's dismiss relationships and AA's launch their subsequent angry pain comments in the direction of some random DA's just minding their own business 😅 Jokes aside; it's actually subconscious programming playing out; but the insecure attached person gets their concious mind called out and then reacts to the perceived criticizing. Hence the "they don't want to see it/don't want to change" complaint. Until all involved can actually see what's truly going on it's probably a losing battle. Narcs on the other hand are intentional / lack empathy.

[@alunjones2185]

Sounds very sensible!

[@wayne1993]

What if you really want to care but can’t? Do you have to get brain surgery? Or is there anything to do do build up those parts of the brain like a muscle?

[@devinb7805]

So I’m pretty uneducated when it comes to to telling if someone is as severe as being a narcissist but it closely resembles my roomates wife. My roommate sticks up for me and generally I always have the moral high ground because when I’m being put down, I try to take it as something to learn from and usually joke about it or laugh at the ridiculous act of someone getting annoyed at that. She hate it which gives me joy. (Maybe that makes me the narcissist) I started doing this recently because of how many times I’ve tried to engage in normal conversation but the only thing that interests her is my “misery”. When my car has issues, lost a golf club, broke something, or just having a hard time, I can always count on her having a smile across her face. Leaving is…optional but Ive developed a bit of resilience and her husband (my roommate) see my point clear as day. What do y’all think?

[@KimSaeed]

I encourage people to pretend the label 'narcissist' doesn't exist and to make decisions on long-term patterns in the relationship. To be honest, it's less about being able to peg someone as a narcissist and more about how their behaviors affect you. I wrote an article about this many years ago that's just as applicable today. It's here if you'd like to read it: kimsaeed.com/2015/10/12/6-strong-signs-you-have-narcissistic-abuse-syndrome/

[@BiscuitsNGravy-p3l]

⁠​⁠@@KimSaeed”It’s less about being able to peg someone as a narcissist and more about how their behaviors affect you.” This is 💯 truth. I am in the healing stage now from a breakup with what I thought was a DA ex gf who was cheating during the relationship, lying straight to my face that she wasn’t even though I saw and heard proof, gaslighting, manipulating and more. She started out so open, connecting and sweet and months later, a different person seemingly showed up. I think she was always that way and I just didn’t see it earlier which allowed her to “hide” it. I have been trying to pin down what I missed. I disregarded many red flags shown early and walked right into what I thought was the anxious-avoidant trap. If I would have listened to my intuition / gut which picked up those red flags and acted accordingly, I would not be where I am now, feeling the pain of being broken up with and rumination. This has been one of the biggest lessons in relationships I have learned and it will cause me to make a lot of positive changes, one being having stronger boundaries and enforcing them . I let a lot of things slide to my detriment because I empathized with the trauma she told me she had in college and within two failed marriages. Life taught me well with this one and I won’t never, ever forget these lessons and they will serve me well going forward. Don’t ever get caught up in wasting time figuring out what someone is if their words and behaviors are destructive to you. Get out of that relationship and take care of yourself. The longer you stay, the more they have the time to damage and destroy you.

[@doctorsilver3365]

Very interesting take

[@lightiz_biekie]

Thank you for sharing this message 🙏 everything is very clear ❤

[@janverschuren369]

Wauw!, sproken as reality 🙏

[@eloisesfavouritethings3978]

This is great for balance thank you

[@KimSaeed]

You're most welcome :)

[@BiscuitsNGravy-p3l]

This sounds like my ex GF who I thought was a DA. Makes a lot of sense now as she reeled me in with love bombing, sex and other things and then devaluation and the ultimate discard. Yeah, I think Dismissive Avoidant is going to register in my mind as Covert Narcissist going forward.

[@asmaaabdelrahman6768]

Thank you for this ❤

[@DisturbedBurger]

How about dismissive avoidant vs psychopath? That's an even tougher distinction I think. I have a story of being led on by a psychopath I thought was a dismissive avoidant...

[@KimSaeed]

This is why, at some point, we need to stop trying to figure out if they're a narcissist, psychopath, avoidant, etc., and just leave them because they're dysfunctional as h*ll.

[@BiscuitsNGravy-p3l]

@@KimSaeedThis is what my therapist said to me when I was in a toxic relationship with a covert narc like woman. She said “don’t worry about trying to label them. Leave based on how they make you feel within the relationship and how they treat you.”

[@sototallyover2359]

Cheating narcissist would be my guess.

[@ashton1952]

narcs monkey-branch from one relationship into the next; they're never single. They like creating love-triangles too. At least what I observed with the grandiose...

[@AmericanDreamer]

PDS puts all the focus on a victimized party and takes away the responsibility from the abuser. PDS encouraged people to do the never ending "work" on themselves when in truth, what so many of people need, is to realize they been abused and cut off the abuser and respect themselves enough to walk away! So yes, altho PDS have some good insights , they are creating a false notion that if you just work hard enough and modify your behavior enough then the toxic abusive partner will become normal or you will get "healed"(!!!) enough to not get bothered by their toxic ways anymore!! So yes, IMO - PDS is enabling the abusers!!

[@iconc1402]

I have found DAs to have been raised by narc "caregivers". Theres definately a difference between DA and narcs. DA are not predatory, exploitive, do not play victim nor invert everything nor fly into rages.

[@Themystery321]

I think i am a covert narc. What to do now?

[@BiscuitsNGravy-p3l]

Psychotherapy for an actual diagnosis, perhaps?

[@mikomelandro]

God Bless You for dismantling everything bs! 👍🙏💯🤍

[@KimSaeed]

Thank you :)

[@birthinfluenceembrace]

I really APPRECIATE how you are stating the truth that how other youtubers are saying that the distancing behaviours exhibited by DA SHOULD be tolerated and can be healed is NOT TO BE taken into consideration!!! It is so true. 💯💯💯