Ditching Naturopathy for Real Science (w/ Britt Hermes)

Britt Marie Hermes became a naturopath because she believed there was a better way to connect with patients. What she discovered a wretched hive of quackery and patient exploitation. And although naturopathy is 99.9% bull$hit, but here's what that 0.1% might teach us.
Links to her Naturopathic Diaries and our medium piece about the pseudoscience of naturopathy (and how it especially preys on women) here: zdoggmd.com/ag...

[@sarah-wellnessgreatness]

Hi, I'm a naturopathic doctor in Ontario who graduated from Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine (CCNM) in 2017. I think Hermes does expose a lot of weaknesses in the naturopathic profession. I agree that the education should be more robust, and I do think there should be residencies in place before being in charge of people's lives. As a new practitioner who started seeing patients in June 2018, I am discovering I do have a lot of knowledge gaps that should have been covered in my schooling. Instead I have to learn it all myself or with extra courses. I am considering applying to medical school to see how vast those gaps are to try and fill them. I do however want to mention though that while I agree with many things that Britt says, I do want to point out that she graduated a while ago. Also the people who she was working with (her supervisors and managers) probably graduated a decent time ago as well. I do not know what the naturopathic education system was like back then, but I do not think that old system exists now. The field of Naturopathic Medicine is changing, at least in Canada. It is changing to keep patient safety as the number one priority. For starters, at CCNM homeopathy is no longer a required course that you must take each of the four years. It is an elective now. So students have the option to not take homeopathy courses beyond first year. Why not eliminate the subject entirely? Unfortunately, become there is a division between Naturopathic Doctors themselves. There are some old school NDs who want to keep homeopathy in the profession. There are some who want to have no affiliation with homeopathy at all. Because of the internal division, Naturopathic Medicine is at a stand still. The only compromise is to make the subject an elective. I think making the course an elective is a move in the right direction. Bringing up the topic of lying to patients that homeopathy works...this does not happen. NDs are required to give patients informed consent and tell patients homeopathic remedies are things that at best only provide a placebo effect. This is what I regularly told patients who came to me during my internship year who actively sought out an ND for homeopathic treatment. I personally do not recommend homeopathic treatments at all in my practice, and I know many NDs who do the same. Perhaps during the time Hermes went to school, only a high school diploma was required for entrance into a Naturopathic program. It is not the case anymore. To get into the Canadian Naturopathic schools, you need to have an undergraduate degree as well, and you will have needed to complete pre reqs such as biology, physiology, chemistry, psychology etc. Yes, it is not competitive to get into the program, but that simply is because the general population does not know the profession even exists. It is only competitive to get into MD schools because people know that the profession exists and it is a profession of high social prestige. Thinking a profession is illegitimate because it is not competitive to get into doesn't seem reasonable. Naturopathic Doctors are NOT taught to discourage the use of vaccines. Naturopathic doctors are pro vaccine. I was never taught to tell patients that they should use something more natural as an alternative to a vaccine. I was never taught there is a homeopathic vaccine equivalent. When I hear people point fingers at NDs for all the outbreaks in North America, I am shocked and surprised because we are a pro vaccine profession. I get angry because it was probably a bad apple in the profession who makes the rest of us look like we are in the same anti-vaccine boat. There is an unfortunate double standard, where if one ND does something wrong, then whole profession gets hit as well. This does not happen for dentists, physiotherapists, or MDs. So I want to be super clear that NDs are not anti-vaxers. It is against ND regulation to advertise/promote any anti-vax material on online websites or in patient visits. Never in my education have I heard of IV Ukraine. I do not know what that is, and I am sad patients were paying 1000s of dollars for something that was not going to help them. It is hard being an ND because any random "natural practitioner" who hasn't at least gone to ND school can make up some natural product and say it is a naturopathic cure all. There is no such things a Naturopathic Cure all. MDs have asked me if I prescribe something called Phoenix tears or if I prescribe essential oils to cure things like cancer. The answer is NO. I have no idea where all these random treatments are coming from because I was never taught them. In Ontario, IV therapy is a very controlled act. It is regulated by a body called the College of Naturopaths of Ontario (CONO). This body was made to not protect NDs. It is a body made to protect patients. CONO will smack down anything they determine is unsafe or incorrect information that will hurt patients. IV tumeric/curcumin is not on the Ontario list of safe IV therapeutics. I think NDs, at least the ones in my graduating class, are very aware of their short comings. Whenever we find something is out of our scope or is in an area that we do not have any training in, we tell the patient we don't have all the answers and to seek help from an MD. In my opinion, NDs do not see themselves as the superior doctors who know better than MDs. At least I do not see myself this way. Early on in Naturopathic school, I knew my education was very different from an MD's education and if Hermes wasn't able to identify that early on, I can see why she would be so devastated and disappointment and have a need to "expose" the profession. But just because it is different, doesn't make it bad right off the bat. I think NDs actually help the medical profession...why? Because there are very sick patients who come to me and say they want to get off all their prescription medication and go "all natural". Because my education, I do not recommend that they come to the "wizarding world" and drop their meds for plants. I actually education them on WHY they must STAY ON their prescriptions, and that I can only provide supportive treatments like improve their diet and lifestyle. I do not aim to say plants are superior to prescriptions. I educate them on the need for balance, and I also take the time to be an active listener, esp to those patients who feel like their MDs are jerks who don't listen. Listening, in itself can heal a lot. The Naturopathic profession does have many short comings that need to improve, but the profession is slowly improving in response to criticism from MDs, public criticism, patient criticism, and unfortunate cases where patients have been harmed. It isn't a stagnant profession where if a mistake is made, it continues on and on to repeat the mistake. Often regulatory bodies like CONO will step in and demand for a change in treatment or policy. We are people who are in this profession to HELP people. If an ND does something that knowingly harms a patient, or takes advantage of the patient financially, it is on the individual, NOT the profession. Just like if an MD were to be an anti-vaxer, we should not think the whole MD profession is anti-vax. Instead we should just hold that one individual accountable for their wrong actions. This was a really great interview. Stepping into Hermes shoes, I can understand why she is so against Naturopathic Medicine. I would be as well. She really saw all the bad sides of the profession. I am grateful she has spoken up because this really kicks the profession's butt and encourages it to improve itself. However I do believe the world of Naturopathic medicine that she experienced and talks about is becoming more and more of a distant reality. Things are different now.

[@byindi]

this was a really insightful comment. ive been trying to make up my mind on naturopathy, having been told it's dangerous pseudoscience, but also wanting to know why people think those things about it. hearing both sides has been really helpful, and im glad that the profession is changing and improving

[@sarah-wellnessgreatness]

Thank you Emilia for your response! I appreciate your willingness to understand both sides of the story!

[@sarah-wellnessgreatness]

Thanks for your response Doug! I would much rather get hit by a slow zamboni than hurt one of my patients too.

[@literalnewsheadlines9149]

Do you realize how many gaps in knowledge a conventional doctor has?

[@kallie9229]

You’ve been in the woo since 2017. You’re in the honeymoon phase.

[@noahking2451]

I am currently going to school studying to be a PA I am heavily into science as well as natural medication. The power of chamomile, L theanine in regards to anxiety, sleeping disorders in comparisson to Xanax , etc. I can speak on personally. The power of cbd in regards to pain, inflammation in comparisson to oxycodone. I can speak on personally. They laugh and mock but there is a very dark side to western medicine as well. Western medicine is not all bad and neither is naturopathic medicine. There has to be a balance in life. There are many diseases illnesses, that western medicine has not cured cannot understand sometimes we have to combine treatments in order to find a solution. Sometimes medication isn't something you have to take orally. Closed mindedness is what stunts Growth. You cant have one with out the other. This is kind of a really one sided debate with out having someone that actually has a background in anatomy, Physiology, micro biology etc. How many plants, herbs, minerals do we have on this earth? It will take real money and real support to find out. When we eat our food what does the body depend on? and when we have diseases, cancers diabetes unknown ? What is the cause? In order to be a naturopathic dr you should have to atleast take pharmacology including natural medications, anatomy, Physiology, chemistry. In order to prescribe a cure you have to understand the diesease.The same process as trying to be a nurse-pa. That is the argument you can't discredit the actual study because it is not fully equipped for success.

[@Noname-bs3uv]

It’s nice to hear the opinion of knowledgeable and perhaps unbiased person. Thanks for your comment, I would like to ask your opinion about orthomolcular psychiatry is it scientific? I would appreciate your response thanks.

[@lizs5709]

I would love to hear a live debate between a naturopathic doctor and an MD, in which they have to respond to each other's questions and criticisms.

[@Seminarylearning]

Here's an old debate. kzbin.info/www/bejne/imPYc3WLab2Hbbs

[@geoespinosa2828]

A homeopath and naturopathic doctor are not the same. MD and NDs are working together in many integrative clinics. Only the delusional egoistic old school MDs are quick to dismiss holistic medicine while it’s the only hope for the chronic illness epidemic that is costing the economy over a trillion dollars. Read the book unconventional medicine by Chris Kresser and enlighten yourself

[@gardenerkatecarter5911]

Some people are addicted to arguing.lololol

[@citrosoda5370]

@Geo Espinosa Yeah. I think naturopathy has a lot of bad practices that the regulatory hammer needs to drop on, but regulation shutting them out of doing a lot of real medicine has ironically allowed for them to perfect the art of inspiring patients to live healthy lifestyles - which is why MDs and NDs need to sit down with each other and discuss their concerns, and move towards an integrative model of healthcare. MDs who are honest with themselves know that there is a lot of failures with allopathy when it comes to chronic disease care.

[@KJ-hy2vl]

Ugh he interrupts too much 🤦‍♀️

[@ThaDonJsuan]

Yea let her talk for fuk sakes

[@PirateoftheTouYube]

The most dishonest thing I see in this comment section is people deciding to just say "well there is truth on both sides" and leaving it at that - as if it is 50/50 and both sides are equal. Just because you knew a doctor who was wrong, or a doctor who was rude, doesn't mean that all of modern medicine should be thrown out in favor of supplements.

[@MrCool144]

Go take your pill. Veggies are dangerous. Science said so.

[@caracaponio5867]

Here’s the thing, theres a MASSIVE difference between a Naturopath and a Naturopathic Doctor. A naturopath is someone who is not licensed, and follows older traditional naturopathic remedies from the 1800s like stated in the video (ie: homeopathy, hydrotherapy, herbal medicine, etc). A Naturopathic doctor (ND) is a licensed primary care physician, that involves the traditional remedies with modern science (common modalities are diet, acupuncture, spinal adjustments, massage, herbal medicine.. the list goes on). ND’s are able to diagnose/treat certain conditions (obviously within our scope), prescribe medicines/supplementations, carry malpractice insurance, administer testings and perform physicals (like PAP testing), administer vaccines (in some jurisdictions), perform additional modalities such as IV’s , order and analyze blood work and so on. In order to become an ND, you need to go a private institution that can give you 4 year doctorate program that results in obtaining a Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine license. There are only a few countries that have schools where you can obtain this doctorate, such as Canada and the US, however there are many countries that don’t have this practice like Australia for example, which not only gives them lots of limitations, but can increase in risks for patients aswell who aren’t informed of this difference. What we study at school includes heavily scienced based courses, which a regular medical student often studies as well! Courses like Anatomy, Clinical Physiology, Pharmacology, Microbiology, Clinical Medicine, Physical and Clinical Diagnosis, Biochemistry are only just a few courses that we take at Naturopathic Medical school as well! That doesn’t include the additional courses such as Acupuncture, Traditional Chinese Medicine, Massage, Botanical Medicine, and more. It’s essentially a 4 year program, averaging about 11 courses per semester (so 24 courses a year. Double the average of what a student typically studies), so we do put in the required hours and work in our studies to obtain that Doctorate at the end of our four years. That also doesn’t include the hours we have to complete in clinics/hospitals for our preceptorship. As a future ND, we are taught that Naturopathic Medicine IS NO WHERE NEAR to ever “overriding” current traditional medicine provided by GP’s and so on. It would be foolish for someone to say that we can survive on Naturopathic Medicine as our main and only sort of treatment for health conditions. We obviously still need more aggressive therapies for a variety of illness’ and disease, and thats where the collaboration comes in. The ultimate goal is to have a collaborative environment in the health field, where we all work with eachother and ensure we are all staying within our scope. If we are ever presented with a patient with a condition that we don’t have extensive studies in / cannot treat as it is not in our scope, we immediately refer. My point is, those “horror” stories, or far stretched quacks that use homeopathy for everything and claim to be naturopaths dont represent the entire Naturopathic Doctorate field. There are bad apples in every field, and I’ve had/heard my fair share of horror stories done by GP’s, Chiros, physios, and massage therapists as well. If you do want to learn more about Naturopathy, PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH and make sure its credible! Remember its always best to see a licensed practitioner aka an ND, and remember the difference between an naturopath and ND! I get it, its a growing field that just recently gained some light, and to some they still dont understand it. Just because you don’t understand it, that doesn’t give you the right to completely shut it down! There are millions of patients who seek naturopathic medicine as a source for treatment, and theres a reason why... it’s because IT WORKS and it is indeed backed by science! I encourage everyone to see an ND just to gain some insight on this emerging field of medicine.

[@AmazonGirlWarrior]

Interesting I'm currently studying naturopathy, and knowing its limitations as a career here in Australia and it's risks, I've been wondering if I should leave or not I do agree with a lot that is said here but I also do not agree with a lot she's said as well And it's even more concerning that people in these comments are quick to point out quackery and the 'uselessness of herbs' yet forget where basic medicine actually stems from? The incidence of the patient dying from turmeric intravenously was one alert - naturopaths implement preventative and supportive treatments, none of which allow the use of any invasive form of treatment e.g. intravenous. The mistake of one idiot has drowned a whole. And what is this of having no evidence to support the administration of herbs? Silybum? Digitalis? Many herbs and their constituents still need further progressing, but many have also been vigorously studied Also, another point about your MS patient You act as if you expected herbs to work for this particular condition? A condition in itself that still remains mostly by part a mystery? But that is not by fault of conventional medicine or herbal medicine, but by lack of knowledge into the cause and progression of this disease that may aid in offering a treatment - "Treat the cause" My current educator spoke to us about his MS, and how he treated himself And what he said? Many things FAILED, most conventional medicine failed, most herbs failed, homeopathy failed and landed him in hospital due to what he now understand to be hypersensitive (a trait common in many MS sufferers) Yet learning of this toxic bubble we are constantly subjected to he found ways do implement into his daily life - and he is healthy and still exploring. The problem is the conflict between industries, many refuse to cooperate with each other that could then rise to be a powerful system of prevention and treatment But it's all money based, from both conventional and alternative It's how the world runs

[@wearashirt]

I agree with you, and it's my 3rd time back on this video. Lately I've been hearing about a lot of brilliant ND's in my podcasts. More ND's than MD's, actually. MD's are more likely to be laboratory researchers, and less likely to be like ND's who are able to manage all these knowledge with confidence and openness, and ready to apply it to primary care.

[@juless3568]

Andrea Savvas, I read you comment and even though I don't rush to conventinal ,medicine unless it's a medical emergency, I have been put off by naturopathy. The last naturpath spoke behind my back and did not want to take my problems seriously. The naturopath didn't mind the fee. I have not heard if this naturopath still practices even though this naturopath should of set an example in looking after their own health and appearance. Until I don't find a wellness orientated practitioner, I will do my own improvements. Clients don't need anti-wellness charlatans.

[@lewisbilly12353]

The problem is your field seems to give some sort of feeling of authority on the subject of health, when you have no authority. This is because NDs do not have the same burden of proof to prescribe treatments, and you use your limited research into correlative studies that gives some feeling of scientific authority. You do not need to actually PROVE a causal relationship with your treatments. This allows for HARM to be done to patients, with a LACK of benefit to the patient. Because there are risks to many treatments, even if you think there is no way harm could be done. Those risks can be proven in causal studies with MDs, but again, naturopathy does not have the same level of scrutiny. It also gives patients false hope when they should be seeing an MD. If naturopathic treatments worked, then MDs would prescribe them.

[@joefalsetta9181]

I'd for sure leave.... no evidence supporting naturopathy

[@leahharpole4880]

Andrea Savvas I love your open perspective.

[@graciehp]

My son manifested with severe plaque psoriasis at 6 months old. He looked like a burn patient. He was in constant pain. A friend of ours who practiced Eastern medicine recommended I change my diet, as my son was exclusively breastfed. Eliminating what causes his inflammation cleared the psoriasis in a month. We did not use topical steroids or any other western medicine. The dermatologist was baffled with how diet affected his skin. He is now twelve and still avoids dairy. He has not had a plaque in 11 years. He does have nail pitting. I do believe that changing our diets can be beneficial in many instances. Western medicine agrees, as they ask cardiac patients, diabetics, and many others to change their diets. But I also understand the dark side of naturopathy and other CAM. My husband is now an acupuncturist. Which I have had benefits from. But he is also honest with patients and tells them when they need an X-ray, or PT, or an antibiotic! Western meds have great diagnostic tools, which can be a benefit for CAM if they will work with MDs. I think it all needs to be a balancing act. Just like everything in life, moderation!

[@AWanderingEye]

One issue in what you wrote, as I see it, is moderation. That is not a beneficial route. The thing that science does is demonstrate the pitfalls of moderation. A moderate amount of arscenic will kill. We only know this because the scientific method proved it. The issue is, like arscenic, there are many other substances and practices we are engaging in that may have similar negative consequences. When folks use CAM they are typically removing themselves from science based treatment or at minimum have a guarded aditude and likely don't comply fully with what is recommended to them by their medical team. Incorporating CAM with modern medicine "muddies the water" and reduces medical healthcare's overall effectiveness. Then we move from, "it feels good" (say the result of visiting and getting treated with CAM) towards the individual putting the community at risk (avoiding keeping up with the vaccine recommendations/schedule). Do you see how moving from the individual effect towards the group effect has serious consequences and risk? Can folks feel good without engaging in high risk behavior or visiting a CAM practitioner? I think your husbsnd is a smart person. Why not apply this intellect where it can do the most good for the most people? Instead he's participating in supporting a practice that as a group removes resources from advancing science based medical knowledge. Regardless of whether he recommends western medical practices to his customers, he has already syphoned off from them resources (their cash and possibly HSA funds or insurance coverage) for a placebo effect that the customer could live without or probably duplicate on their own without his intervention and costs. Overall the customer's resources are reduced and should a serious health condition arise, they will not be available to aid them in responding.

[@chelsear9483]

@@AWanderingEye You clearly didn't read what she wrote and are going off of only what's said in this video. Actual homeopathic practitioners know very well that eastern medicine must be taken side by side with western medicine and needs doctors approval first. There is no removal of the patient from western medicine or shortening of resources. Acupuncture actually has scientific research behind it and has continuing education being done on it. Perhaps look it up before jumping down someone's throat. I really don't see how you are trying to argue with this woman. Tbh, I don't think you actually know what alternative medicine is. Diet is a very big part of Alternative medicine and western medicine. She took the advice from an alternative practitioner to what I assume is to stop dairy while breast feeding. And that stopped her child from having plaques. I'm not sure how that is negative as a western doctor who knows about proper dieting would give her advice to make sure her diet was accurate. It's not like stopping your intake of diary while breast feeding will damage your child. Smh. There are quack alternative practitioners and then there are real alternative practitioners.

[@AWanderingEye]

@@chelsear9483 I read it. And your description of CAM working alongside of Western Medicine is usually not the typical route in my experience in US. Many folks who use CAM only have a CAM provider. That is until they develop conditions CAM isn't fixing. Then they show up in UC or ER with an advanced condition, that had they been seeing an MD or DO instead, it might have been caught earlier. And as to my "jumping down someone's throat": I have no idea if the OP is watching this thread, if so, maybe seeing someone bother to respond maybe she'll take in some amount of info. I am hopeful esp. where the vulnerable and dependent folks are involved.

[@noriginal2546]

changing diet isn't naturopathy. it's sound medical advice. my lactation consultant advised me to stop dairy and it cured my newborn's severe eczema. there are many broken aspects of our conventional medical system that naturopathy does not answer.

[@kerryanne7126]

Hillery Potter Absolutely can diet make a huge difference, that doesn’t mean western medicine isn’t useful or ineffective. Dietetics is a field of health and medicine that we are only just scraping the surface of. But just because something is natural doesn’t make it good, mold and bacteria are natural but they can do so much harm. Health care is changing, I have experience from a personal level both as a patient and as a practitioner. 2010 diabetics were recommended Low GI, low fat diets which keeps them sick so they NEED insulin. But now our understanding has enhanced and we advice differently, causing people to no longer need insulin and medication. But fighting the health care system doesn’t help you have to join and cause affect from within.

[@karencarney7595]

Drs- medicine when you're already sick NDs- preventative medicine

[@ThaDonJsuan]

Preventative medicine? Lol. "Heres medicine for an illness you dont have.... yet... ;p"

[@karissaurban8863]

Bastyr University, along with the other accredited natuorpathic medical schools, require a bachelors degree and a rather extensive list of science pre-requisites such as organic chemistry, biochemistry, biology, human anatomy and physiology, physics, etc. Pretty similar pre-requisites to MD programs but minus the MCAT. You absolutely cannot apply with just a high school diploma.

[@joefalsetta9181]

Regardless this doesn't change the fact that homeopathy and naturopathy is not evidence based

[@sharondianneb]

And residencies post grad. I've heard

[@siriuslili]

@@joefalsetta9181 would you please define what evidence based means in detail?

[@vasilykovalev4205]

Thank you very much! This is an eyes openning interview. As an immigrant family my wife and I were confused by the lack of empathy from PCPs (I always checked if they were MD), someone recommended contacting a practicing naturopath... Thank you guys for this video, it prevents me from huge mistake! I will recommend it to all my friends). It's mind-boggling how pseudoscience has infiltrated healthcare!

[@sinforosobirung9885]

To get relieved of my recurring gout and hypertension, a naturopath advised me a list of restrictions on my food: 1) carb from grains 2) processed sugar 3) trans fats 4) meat of farmed animal/fish and 5) any food rich in Omega He recommended a ketogenic diet for a well defined healthy food - 70% good fat, 25% protein and 5% carb from organic vegetables or tubers (as carb in fibrous medium offsets its trigger to inflammation). Other advice to fine tune my keto diet and plant-based supplements were also given by my ND. I did as advised. Relief from gouty arthritis and a normal BP of 130-140/80-90 were achieved for the last 2 years. I am now off my pharmaceutical meds - amlodypine besilate & colchicin. NOW, TELL ME BRITT, WAS I HELPED TO WELLNESS BY A WOO?

[@woodywoodlstein9519]

Sinforoso Birung so you are dumb ? Ok.

[@caracaponio5867]

Woody Woodlstein do you not see the point he’s making? Or do you need further explanation lol because you calling him dumb is absolutely ridiculous

[@umbertotorresan474]

The dude keeps talking about confirmation bias... which is exactly what he’s doing through the interview. Leading questions, side comments confirming his opinions etc. Not a balanced discussion on naturopathy, just on that Washington State school. So from a “scientific” point of view, doctor, you have proved nothing but that school’s shortcomings. You’re no different from biased media.

[@marabanara]

But this was not framed as a debate. Is this the first time you’ve watched this channel? ZDogg’s followers are mostly doctors, nurses and others who believe in scientific evidence but are also disillusioned with the way medicine has been practiced traditionally. The guest here was invited to share her particular story of coming from naturopathic lies, to now an accurate understanding of science and how wrong that all was. She was not invited to present the case (which as she explains, there is none) for naturopathic “medicine”. As ZDogg and Ms Hermes both freely admit, traditional mainstream medicine is horrible at treating people with kindness and not just as a bunch of diagnoses to throw prescriptions at. We know this. But the answer is not fake medicine.

[@melissalowe6210]

At 1:09:40ish she mentions that we take shitty care of women in medicine...i tend to agree. I had years of severe pelvic pain and everyone even female physicians said it was just normal menstrual cramps even though it happened almost every single day of my life. I was taking dangerous levels of OTC painkillers. I told a gyn surgeon about it when I was getting treatment for infertility/fibroid. I had surgery for the fibroid and he found another condition called andenomyosis during the surgery. At my post op visit he literally said to me "so all that pain you were telling me about was real" like I had been completely bullshitting every gyn Dr I had seen for 15 years. I was so angry and I will never forget it.

[@levernfitzpatrickjr.3969]

The ND would’ve got to the root cause and saved you from painkiller consumption lol

[@bloompretty7576]

This video needs to address the difference between Naturopaths and Naturopathic Doctors. Naturopaths are self taught/only do some online stuff for 1 year or two while Naturopathic Doctors go to school for 8 years and take the same classes as Allopathic (conventional) Doctors plus some of the more "natural" stuff like Herbalism, Nutrition, Psychology.

[@sharondianneb]

Trump's Doctor is a ND " Whitehouse physician "

[@marabanara]

You didn’t watch the video, hey?

[@jakerodgers9151]

This guy makes my skin crawl.

[@alphathefirstone1222]

agreed..lol

[@LanceShaverGarrett]

Thank you, both of you! This was an excellent interview and I really appreciate how you have identified the underlying issues within medicine and why we are seeing this rise in people seeking out 'alternative' routes-and that we, as you said, "need to rehumanize and re-personalize science-based medicine"

[@jonathanwinters1625]

You're dumb, go read a medical history book. Naturopathic medicine was the first medicine. The only way to personalize medicine is to treat the individual, not the disease. You'd know if you weren't a dumb fuck.

[@Nmethyltransferase]

"Why can't we mix the best of East and West..?" I really want to roll my eyes at that one... Mindfulness has been developed into a psychotherapy modality, which has shown tremendous success against PTSD and Borderline Personality Disorder. Yoga and exercise are actually preferred treatments (over painkillers or even non-narcotic pharmacotherapy) for fibromyalgia, lower back pain, and other non-cancer chronic pain. IV Magnesium Sulfate is the standard treatment for preeclampsia of pregnancy. High-dose IV's of B vitamins are used to prevent brain damage in detoxed alcoholics. The American Academy of Neurology recognizes oral supplements of riboflavin, magnesium, and ubiquinone for migraine prophylaxis. Psychiatrists can prescribe high dose L-methylfolate to patients with depression or schizophrenia, who are already on medication but not responding to it, and convert them to active responders. I can do this all day... But my point is, witch doctors aren't smarter than actual doctors. If a treatment works, science-based medicine readily embraces it!

[@kimberlycooper4170]

Nmethyltransferase , I agree that we need to use western medicine. I am up-to-date on all vaccinations, use antibiotics for bacterial infections, etc. I took human anatomy and physiology in college. When some people used Eastern medicine to say that we should sit down when drinking water because standing causes the water to run through our bodies too fast, I explained how the colon, kidneys, and hormones work to retain or remove water from the blood vessels. However, Western medicine still has problems. In the 1960s, women would go to their doctors with an ailment. If the doctor couldn't readily figure out a diagnosis, the doctor would tell the women, "It's all in your head." A few doctors still do that to women. Western medicine is great for maladies that need pills and surgery. Western medicine isn't always that great when other solutions are needed. For example, the Western med doctors diagnosed me with allergies. I took allergy meds for many years. Western med doctors couldn't do a thing about helping me with obesity except give me a meal planning chart provided by a pharmaceutical company that sells diabetes type 2 drugs. I went to a person who practices leaning toward Eastern medicine. That person, by experimentation, changed how and what I eat. I no longer have allergies or obesity, and 17 more health problems were solved, too. Western medicine persons sued South African scientist and professor Tim Noakes to stop him from giving people nutritional advice that didn't adhere to the USA's plate diagram (used to be a pyramid). Western medicine lost in both the trial and the appeal trial. Dr. Noakes has some interesting things to say about the organizations backing the lawsuit. So, Western medicine has some very good things. But, we must educate ourselves on Eastern medicine, too.

[@chelsear9483]

I'm not sure why you are rolling your eyes then if you agree that eastern medicine working side by side with western medicine is science based and actually works. Lol. Doctors unfortunately can't write a script for yoga or massages but we all know they work and are benifical medically speaking, it's still considered an "eastern medicine" and not accepted by insurance. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️ it should be!

[@jonathanwinters1625]

You're dumb, go read a book. Science-based medicine was created by doctors and political interest groups to test the effect of pharmaceutical drugs on disease. Science-based medicine was not designed to support or explore any other mechanisms other than the effect of drugs on disease, especially procedures that examine the effect of treatments on HEALTH. As I said, you're dumb go read a book.

[@Room-xi6nb]

@@jonathanwinters1625 While I agree with you about what you said, why call people "dumb"? Very aggressive, and unnecessary. So... why? Because you can? Because it makes you feel bigger? Sorry, but it says more about you, than it does about anyone else. Plus, your message gets lost, which is too bad.

[@kmasse81]

I was told to begin a regimen of cranberry supplements before my hysterectomy and for 6 weeks after. This was to prevent bladder infection. Science based medicine will use "natural" sources when they've been proven effective and the benefits outweigh the risks. I'm so sick of people crying about diet, excercises, and supplements not being a part of MDs recommendations. For most of my issues these are the first things my doctors recommend! Most people don't follow their doctor's instructions and end up on pharmaceuticals (which are also derived from plants and "natural" chemicals). Ffs. There is no alternative medicine, only medicine. If it's proven effective and been tested it just is medicine. Next time your homeopath or ND recommends some bs supplement ask what Universities or hospitals have studied and tested it, how big were the sample sizes of clinical trials and were they double blind. Watch them give you some dead persons "testimony".

[@criticalthinkingisessentia2402]

I was enjoying watching your videos until you called Multiple Chemical Sensitivities psychosomatic. A better name for it is TILT (Toxicant Induced Loss of Tolerance) and it's very real and very debilitating/isolating. This type of discrimination is why people stop seeing conventional doctors and go to naturoapths or essentially become their own doctors (which is overwhelming). I don't trust naturopaths but you damn well better believe I'm not going to see a conventional doctor who disrespects me and has no understanding of my illness. How arrogant to think you have every illness all figured out. Did you know that MS was once attributed to conversion disorder (hysteria with physical symptoms)? Please open your mind and be open to the idea that science is evolving and we currently do not know everything. Your line of thinking is extremely damaging to patients.

[@caracaponio5867]

Well said!!!

[@memememmee7794]

Thank you for saying this. Exactly how I felt seeing their reactions to that disrder and how people with Morgellons are also treated. Plenty of people have been disrespected by conventional heartlessness so they're forced to go elsewhere.

[@TruePathLiving]

I was given Cipro by an MD which has a fucking black box label by the FDA ; even after telling doctors that I am HIGHLY intolerant to avelox ( they are of the same class of antibiotics) .... MDs will fuck up just the same no offense.I had peripheral neuropathy and became tachycardic it was fucking terrifying.Y'all are not better than naturopathic doctors in many cases..... :/ Instead of trying to disprove naturopathic medicine focus on improving conventional medicine. .

[@lerhonegrant8099]

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@siriuslili]

WORD

[@byrolyn8182]

Ms HERMES THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WHAT YOU DO.

[@terricrowe8944]

Please do an extended interview with a former chiropractor. Chiropractic is out of control. Love this interview with her.

[@bfnew4440]

Dr. Berg!

[@MoonMan129]

Interesting to see how ZDogg's evolving perspective on the mind-body connection, holistic, integrative and individualized care is exactly the epicentre of how ND's practice..........so much for being objective and attempting to suppress that emotional elephant for the betterment of progressive discourse

[@gusgesumaria7268]

I share this interview with colleagues and medical students all the time, especially at 58:37. I'm a practicing ED physician, (EM/IM trained) We need to do so much better communicating with patients and coordinating care.

[@cootchillnelson8699]

Thank you Britt Hermes

[@Darkshadow7827]

I work in derm and not everyone are assholes... a lot of them but not me :D But yea, I never berate patients. I'll spend time with them debunking myths and will go over my stupid 10 minute per pt limits as needed. But yea, I -DO- have to follow a lot of rules set by my supervising though. I only give my honest opinion though. The out of pocket cost of PRP for hair loss... It's insane.

[@wearashirt]

Went into this video not bec I'm into naturopathy, but I've into a lot of the nutrition topics, such as that by Dr Cate Shanahan, Michael Pollan, and a bunch of books that discuss diet and inflammation. Wondering if you guys are gonna take that up soon!

[@levernfitzpatrickjr.3969]

This is what has drawn me to considering a naturopathic doctor but i’m not interested in anything other than nutrition, herbs, diseases prevention and cure. With that in mind im trying to consider other avenues other than a 4yr doctor degree.

[@dfballa22]

Hahaha, as a future PA, I genuinely enjoy all of your videos! Britt's dissolution toward the embodiment of naturopathy warrants admiration. Good on you Britt!

[@Bellasafari]

LOL a very experienced PA in Colorado just referred his DAD and MOM for dementia to an ND! You will to one day if you truly want people to get well.

[@gardenerkatecarter5911]

Experience strength and hope…..she’s making amends I salute her and her life

[@phenomenalfemale524]

I hear what Ms Hermes is saying and appreciate she is able to realize that science based medicine is important. But, does she take any vitamins? What about you ZDOGG? Seems to me that some supplements are beneficial but which ones? Hope you all help me and others watching this!!

[@JimC-bg6tt]

Britt Hermes is referring to a time in Naturopathic history that was totally unregulated. It was the wild west back when she went to school and trained. I think things have significantly changed in that field now. The NDs that I have met who recently graduated say that they don't practice homeopathy, they don't do strange colon cleanses etc. When Hermes went to ND school, bachelors degrees weren't required. Now they are and anatomy and physiology courses are required. It is funny how you will pass judgement on a whole group of people based on one archaic ND's experience who is heavily biased toward your viewpoints. I appreciate hearing about Hermes story, I can understand where she is coming from, but Zdogg, your ability to put other people down so easily shows just how unhappy you personally are with being a MD.

[@1MinuteFlipDoc]

not a proponent of pseudoscience (naturopathy), but there's a lot of pseudoscience in "real" medicine too. money talks

[@InvestigadorTJ]

1MinuteFlipDoc Naturopathy is its own system of medicine but uses the clear sciences especially Physiology

[@BaLayEunMi]

Clear sciences? There's only one kind of science, and Naturopathy doesn't use it when it comes to their extraordinary claims.

[@matthewmedeiros5533]

BaLayEunMi there's only one kind of science? Which is?

[@BaLayEunMi]

What, as opposed to the "unclear sciences?' Lol! Science. The scientific method. The only reliable system we have to determine what is real, and in the case of medicine, helpful, harmful, or benign. When scientists discover they are wrong about something, they discard it, and improve on what they do know whenever they can. It's why we have the advanced computers and internet we do, and life-saving medical treatments we have never had before in human history. Medical science is not perfect yet, and we may never know how to cure or fix everything, but it's far superior to "alternative medicine" with its alternative science. I would not be alive today if it weren't for modern medicine. Offering fake treatment for serious illness is unconscionable.

[@matthewmedeiros5533]

BaLayEunMi simply because you call your view as "science", it doesn't predispose you to being correct. If you seriously believe that all scientists working with conventional medicine simply discard something when it's not safe and/or effective, then I'm sorry but I have to tell you that the scientific community is not as utopian as that. Best example? Chemotherapy, accross the board has been able to "cure" about 2-2.5% of cancers, and is unbelievably toxic, unsafe, and also extremely carcinogenic. Samw with Statin Drugs, heart disease has seen no change and remains in the top 3 causes of death, yet statins remain as prevalent as ever (actually moreso). So I must ask you, why have these things not been discarded? I personally don't think they should be removed as an option, but why is at the forefront of every patients regimen, regardless of the type of cancer and heart disease? Alternative medicine is called alternative for no reason but the fact that it represents multiple fields of medicine rejected by a body of scientists and doctors that have failed horribly at treating chronic disease. Oh but because a few vaccines were successful in the past, we give the ENTIRE community of MD's a pass despite all their failures, as if they were behind those achievements of conventional medicine. Also, I find it so interesting, that you have a woman here, that when asked about "facts" about naturopathy, she constantly turns to "well let me tell you about my experience". So anecdotal testimonials from those that are against naturopathy is fine, but if a naturopathy patient provides their positive testimonial, people shout "ANECDOTAL ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE". Blatant double standard bias

[@m.s.7756]

This woman's arguments always trouble me. We have very similar stories, but I've come to the conclusion that a "both and" approach to medicine is best (i.e., be open to naturopathic treatments when traditional medicine fails). You can't just dismiss all of naturopathy because of some select cases of malpractice. I've seen no less than 3 loved ones die due to pharmaceuticals, was treated horribly by overworked MDs just like Britt was, and I still want to pursue an MD because I recognize that traditional medicine helps far more people than it hurts. Yes, an ND curriculum is much less rigorous and much more limited than an MD curriculum, but to call it "useless" because of that fact is such black and white thinking. It has its place.

[@m.s.7756]

Also, med school and ND school have the exact same prerequisites minus the MCAT... it's definitely not "a high school degree"

[@sharondianneb]

Thank you. As a nurse for 20 yrs I feel the same

[@sharondianneb]

Her interview on Joe Rogan was problematic

[@jenifersears]

I've watched this at least 4 times. Best AMA ever

[@am-xk3xs]

N equals 1 clinician's experience. How do you account for all of the functional medicine (MDs and DOs) who are using lifestyle modifications and targeted supplementation instead of their medical training and pharmaceuticals, who are finally healing folks, and helping them find full-spectrum vitality and vibrance in their lives. Let's not forget the unending conversations that could exist on the dangers of pharmaceutical medication and the physiological harm and injury that they cause. Facts, not opinions. It is laughable you even allude to the fact that supplements are expensive as though pharmaceutical medications are given away freely 😄 ! And that they are unregulated. Yes all of those fda-regulated medications are safe and healthy. I'm astounded at the lack of hindsight in this interview. Let me also clarify that I am not anti-medicine. I think it has its place for certain illnesses which are acute and short lived but often has severe limitations and potential to increase harm for treating chronic disease. And once that happens you're on the pharmaceutical merry go round which is essentially a trap. This entire conversation is hysterical and self-serving. What role do these 2 play in downplaying all of the work and research that has been shown as evidence in clinical practice, across the country/world and using naturopathy and lifestyle modifications?

[@riptworkshops9121]

Did you really just ask "why are people feeling better by not living shitty lifestyles because their doctor told them to live less shitty lifestyles?" Doctors have been telling people for years to change shitty behaviors. People just don't like the message.

[@InvestigadorTJ]

“Why do you think homeopathy works for so many people?”.. “well let me tell you my story” - so it works why is that -I don’t know let me tell you about one isolated experience and it will answer everyone else’s experience with homeopathy and how it cured them. - so let me talk about one isolated experience where the person attributed the cure to the sugar pill which doesn’t do shit... because the body heals itself. The former naturopath just tried to prove: no possible way of having a placebo effect -because they can’t answer why it works for so many people-. the other person(zdog, MD) ..acknowledged that it works for so many people to him it is a placebo effect

[@woodywoodlstein9519]

InvestigadorTJ actually you must suffer from adhd. Because you missed the point. Maybe watch it again but pay attention. Moron.

[@missylee3022]

I would love to see more content taking on the alternative wellness world. We really really need the evidence based medical world to help with the disinformation. Thanks for this.

[@blackprimeminister]

Women dominate naturopathy for the same reason women dominate yoga. It's part of the same "alternative" scene. There isn't some gender-discrimination thing going on in medicine: Western medicine doesn't listen, period. Meanwhile, men don't bother going to their doctor at all - it's not like they are receiving superior treatment. Women are more social, need to talk about their problems more, doctors trying to get patients out the door have no time.

[@Jimmy24720]

She is telling her side of the story, but if you look at the whole picture you will find the real horror at the conventional medicine why worse than the naturopathic side

[@GrantCX]

a real scientist is humble. a real scientist doesn't ridicule other sciences to prove a point. & this host guy is far away from being humble. am I the only one thinking his way of sarcasm against holistic natural medicines (which laid the foundations for western medicine) is very unscientific and ridiculous? I'm not an MD or ND, but I know that people did recipes out of nature 5,000 years ago that are still advanced to anything we try to replicate it with nowadays with our super tech. (ex: mummification in ancient Egypt)

[@ambers8775]

Interesting. Trying to find a doctor for my acne and was trying to go holistic. But now i dont know.. lol

[@Rhythmsonido]

Ok at the most elementary level of journalism (if that is what he was trying to do), this interview was virtually one sided and carried on with a comedic tone. If ZDogg is seriously curious about the ND profession then he should have invited an ND to actually have an opposing view. Also noticed that when ZDogg asked Hermes what her experience with homeopathy was she could not give him any examples of any actual patients yet they both trashed it. If you want to be taken seriously in this topic as a scientist, doctor put your bias and ego aside when you do your investigation and then show us your findings. And should you invite an ND and Hermes again try to remain neutral and simply let the truth speak for itself.

[@Bellasafari]

YEP He would have been talked under the table and he knows it. Two hating shills... idiots.

[@oldktmaty7858]

She gave examples of patients what where you watching

[@byrolyn8182]

BILLIONAIRE STEVE JOBS HAD PANCREATIC CANCER WHO DECIDED TO DO HOMEOPATHY INSTEAD OF AN ONCOLOGIST(MD OR DO). HE DIED. MDs SAID THAT HE MIGHT HAVE SURVIVED REGULAR ONCOLOGIST.

[@kayp4601]

I was swindled by one of these NDs who said I had adrenal fatigue. The ND had me take a saliva cortisol test. Well, I thought someone was weird and made an appointment with an endocrinologist MD who gave me the proper blood test and my cortisol was absolutely normal. The endo saved me hundreds of dollars of so-called recommend supplements for a non-existing condition.

[@lewisbilly12353]

@Frank Aziz It is only one third because medical advances have solved other problems. The life span has only increased due to medical advances.

[@Samcarnelian]

found the ukrain wikipedia page and this incident is briefly mentioned. very interesting.

[@jaredpistoia]

ZDoggMD & Brit Hermes: A common reason for failure to prescribe an indicated homeopathic remedy is the reliance on a few symptoms such as "redness, itching, and inflammation." These are only 3 extremely general symptoms, each of which, whether taken together or by themselves, can be found in common among thousands of homeopathic remedies. That these 3 symptoms proceed a puncture wound adds additional specificity, but still does not present a clear enough picture for appropriate remedy selection, thus an indicated remedy will not be found and the patient will be frustrated. The placebo effect may indeed occur in rather easily influenced patients, but since it is not exclusive to any one modality in particular, it would not differ from the placebo effect of administering a contraindicated pharmaceutical which also often occurs in medicine. However, homeopathy has been documented to outperform placebo in numerous case studies, and the study of its mechanisms remains an underfunded, unanswered call to action. The most convincing argument, though, for homeopathy's effect on the body are provings (discussed below). Any person with courage can attempt a proving, though great care must be taken and a licensed homeopath should be guiding the proving. The placebo effect seems to be a force capable of improving patient health and should thus be studied on its own, and indeed, it has been written about in a book titled "Suggestible You," which contains scientific research and is available for purchase on Amazon for your enjoyment. Reliance on general, non-specific symptoms is an excellent choice if one wishes to prescribe a pharmaceutical, but is largely a shot in the dark if selecting a homeopathic remedy. Unfortunately, it seems your professor was not educated in proper homeopathic technique. Homeopathic remedies are prescribed most notably and with documented success in German hospitals, Indian clinics, and Greece. I recommend visiting www.vithoulkas.com to read about the lifetime clinical successes of homeopath George Vithoulkas. There you can read about homeopathic mechanisms, clinical trials, and the like. You can also KZbin Rajan Sankaran, Sujit Chatterjee, or Roger Morrison to listen to documented case reports with patient testaments and methodical procedures and remedy choice explained in greater detail. The selection of a homeopathic remedy first begins with an extensive and detailed patient intake, considering first mental symptoms (state of mind/emotions), general symptoms (body temp, effect of motion on symptoms, etc.), physical symptoms, and if possible, strange, rare and peculiar symptoms (e.g. the wound itches only when exposed to water). Gathering this information requires at least an hour, and once finished, requires research in homeopathic materia medicas, which supply documented remedy "provings" which began in the 1800s and continue thru today. There are thousands of homeopathic materia medica in medical libraries and can also be searched for online. Here is the link for the materia medica for apis, documented by William Boericke, MD: www.homeoint.org/books/boericmm/a/apis.htm All provings of the same remedy present with similar symptoms, and these symptoms are documented and called "keynotes." Redness, inflammation, and itching are symptoms of apis, but are not keynotes. Some keynotes unique to apis include an extremely tender, stinging type of pain; worse in the afternoon; aggravated by heat and motion; better with cold application. To contrast, cantharis (fly bite) shows a wound with a raw, burning pain; worse from cold. Both remedies, however, may present with redness, inflammation, and itching. It is necessary to spend time with a patient to understand the symptom picture in a detailed manner, then either search through materia medicas for similar symptom pictures, or use technology such as Radar OPUS or Vithoulkas Compass to input symptoms into programs that match symptoms with remedies. Provings are an extremely important concept in homeopathy. If you continually take a homeopathic remedy in great frequency, you will begin to experience symptoms associated with the exposure to that substance in non-homeopathic doses. A spider bite for example, will produce many similar symptoms in a group of people bitten by the same spider, but also will affect each person differently depending on their constitution and inborn tissue weaknesses. Inborn tissue weaknesses are defined by genetics. For example, some people may secondarily experience a headache along with the wound, others may become quite irritable, angry or weepy, and others may become rather tired. These differences are the most important part of homeopathic prescription. As you can see, the approach between the selection of a pharmaceutical and the selection of a homeopathic remedy is polar opposite.

[@woodywoodlstein9519]

Jared Christopher dude. Fck off. Take your crazy somewhere else you desperate asshole

[@byrolyn8182]

BONE BROTH HAS NUMEROUS SIDE EFFECTS LIKE HEADACHES, RAPID HEART BEAT, BLOATING, CONSTIPATION, GAS, SUDDEN NEED TO SIT DOWN AND REST, ASTHMA, BLOOD SUGAR IMBALANCES(HYPOGLYCEMIA), BRAIN FOG, DIZZINESS, DIGESTIVE UPSET, MUSCLE PAIN, JOINT PAIN, SNEEZING AND DRY MOUTH. THEY MAY CONTAIN CONTAMINANANTS LIKE LEAD, OTHER HEAVY METALS.

[@tahls4317]

people expecting alternative medicine to treat chronic illness, when really it's used to treat acute illness or as preventative medicine. No naturopath would suggest natural medicine if the patient is chronically ill. Naturopathy works along the key principles of, Do no harm Identify and treat the cause Physician as teacher, helping you understand your own body Treat the whole person, not just the symptoms of the illness AND prevention

[@bunnyou11]

Indigo Child but obviously the naturopath did recommend natural medicine for chronic illnesses -- according to this story

[@marabanara]

As a child, my parents were at their wit’s end keeping up with my moderate-severe asthma, and a Naturopathic “Doctor” treated it and quite happily took their money. So for a while I carried little sugar pills infused with homeopathic remedies to treat my shortness of breath/wheeze, until my school stepped in and made sure I had access to a salbutamol inhaler at school. The period was short lived as of course it did nothing. But my parents put me through lots of other “treatments” from that “Doctor”, and even a big clinic they worked in. I’m now an Oncology nurse, and I deeply sympathise when my patients are let down by mainstream medical practice. Modern mainstream medicine is great at treating disease, but not necessarily the person. This does not make fake medicine like naturopathy the answer.

[@byrolyn8182]

WHAT ABOUT 1 OR 2 YEARS OF CHEMISTRY, BIOCHEMISTRY, STATISTICS, 1 YEAR OF BIOCHEMISTRY, 1 YEAR OF PATHOLOGY, 1 YEAR OF BEHAVIORAL SCIENCE, MICROBIOLOGY, ETC. THIS IS THE FIRST 2 YEARS.

[@SilasAram]

Well, it would be good to still learn Naturopathic Medicine from Bastyr, but then not to become a ND, but go into Medical School, to become a NMD right?

[@cheesebread3]

Why would you want to learn pseudoscience just to have to unlearn it in medical school?

[@SarahAnnBellham]

Their training in no way prepares them to be Primary Care physicians. It makes absolutely no sense to me that several states allow them to do so. Any ND that thinks their training mirrors mainstream medical education is delusional; they're opening up themselves for liability.

[@AWanderingEye]

So patients become consumers and the rule of the game is "buyer beware". A poorly educated population plus mainstream legitimization sets up the chance of a perfect storm. That and the quack office on every corner and HSA funds and Insurance coverage ...How could it not come to this? More CAM practitioners need to wake up to what they are really accomplishing - fraud - and make the choice this brave woman has.

[@jonathanwinters1625]

You're a loser. You know nothing about medicine and have no opinions of your own. Go back to school.

[@Bellasafari]

You absolutely have NO idea what you are talking about. Google Bastyr University, Southwest Naturopathic Medicine look at the courses they have to pass. THEN google any medical school curriculum- compare... here is a link for ease. I LOVE my ND. She is very knowledgeable, professional and helped me get to the root of my health issues. You go on believing that pharma is God's medicine... You will see if you have eyes to see. Natural Medicine is our birthright medicine. www.scnm.edu/

[@ida-os3sx]

I am a naturopathic medical student who previously studied conventional medicine and opted for naturopathy because as a patient conventional medicine failed me. I assure you, our curriculum is as challenging as conventional medical training requires, but does not mirror it. On top of it we do training in other modalities such as herbal medicine and homeopathy. It requires a lot of work and sleepless nights. You cannot decide the training unless you are met with it. Did you really explore your claims before posting like that?

[@sinforosobirung9885]

I am now off "maintenance" pharmaceuticals for 20 years (faithful compliance with western trained doctor's prescription), after naturopathy advice that stressed holistic intervention 1) food restrictions [sugar, grains, omega 6, GMOs, meat from farmed animals], 2) rectified diet [keto meals with consciousness on organic], 3) regular workout, 4)awareness and practice of pressure points, 5) stress management, 7) healthy living (vice-free [smoking, alcohol]) 8) plant-based food supplement; kzbin.info/www/bejne/iYKpiqGpbM5ql6M. Along with other stories of naturopathy beneficiaries, I guess this counts as evidence-based "approval" of natural medicine?

[@4sh024]

I think traditional Chinese medicine IS science-based but a lot of it was done through trial and error. And through that trial and error process over thousands of years, they have a great understanding of which herbs work best to treat certain conditions. Same with other traditional medicines.

[@nathanclark2780]

Yeah? Explain the Rhino horn and other ridiculous Chinese remedies for impotency etc.

[@ReineDeLaSeine14]

I would love to see empirical double blind studies on the more widely used techniques someday

[@angedejeudi]

Nathan Clark Some of the remedies do work, except no one uses them anymore because they're more hassle to prepare than just popping a pill or slathering on some cream. One of the most well known examples of effective traditional herbal medicine, to the point of being discusses in pharmacology classes, is "ma huang". It can be used to treat a range of symptoms including colds, flu, and asthma. Its active ingredient is found in many "Western" drugs. However, we just give people the purified active ingredient instead because it's easier to control dosage, and it's easier to administer (no one these days has the time to actually prepare herbal medicine themselves given the ingredients). The reason you only know about rhino horns is because that's attention grabbing, and we love sensationalizing things.

[@jennywaldensi4868]

Chinese medicine is based on the occult; as their attachment to astrology (as their yearly calendar shows). There is nothing scientific about acupuncture, pills from rhino horns, so on.

[@ProtoIndoEuropean88]

@@jennywaldensi4868 there is no truth on anything "scientific" it's all a bunch of measuring things the way based on one's own bias

[@kayceekofalt2724]

One of my favorite interviews ever. Brit Hermès- sorry people are hateful but I love you and appreciate you. Well done!!

[@MsArhall]

Kaycee Kofalt Amen! I thoroughly enjoyed this interview! Both are so well-spoken!

[@nz01bambi]

Being given fish when the client was a vegetarian?! This purely means that the naturopath wasn't listening to her patient to provide the best means of treatment. Britt was offered lifestyle and diet changes, but that's just "common sense", maybe to her it was but still if things are so common sense then why do people get so sick and need medical help? Why do people think they need a magic pill or a doctor who has a 15-minute window to "fix" you? I think watching this with a very open mind is important, naturopathy is ever-evolving like any other industry but bear in mind you are listening to two sceptics in this discussion.

[@sharondianneb]

Agreed

[@byrolyn8182]

CONGRATULATIONS Ms BRITT HERMES.

[@michelleeaton6602]

An utterly phenomenal interview - the subject matter, the discussion, the authenticity of the former naturopathy doctor, and on and on. I look forward to your making more videos like this one. Medicine 3.0. Bravo, Dr. ZDogg!

[@sharondianneb]

Phenomenal? Not really .

[@caldelt]

What an amazing human being. If #CSICon weren't in Vegas, I would've made it to the morning talks and seen her live.

[@FreedomToRoam86]

Unfortunate you guys didn’t get the dermatologist I did rotation with in residency. Nice guy, great with pt’s, incredibly dedicated despite boring specialty. (There’s my family medicine prejudice coming out!)

[@Berendo4ever]

She was great at CSICON. Both her talk and on a panel.

[@jonathanwinters1625]

The only reason you like her is because she's a half-attractive female and you have a penis. You're a loser.

[@learningguitar2693]

Came here from the skeptics guide to the universe podcast. Damn what an interesting story. It takes real guts to reject a belief system to which your entire sense of self is tied. Good onya lassie!!

[@jonathanwinters1625]

Shut up, you suck

[@sharondianneb]

@Frank Aziz yes !

[@jananijayabalan14]

These both literally do not know what is actually naturopathy...or homeopathy...or anything...wast conversations they have.

[@memememmee7794]

The amount of arrogance between the two was too much. They can keep their chemical based bullshit but trust that they'll try anything once it fails them (and it will.)

[@balancedbody1]

Host language is atrocious... The female is suffering from PTSD and that's why she so against naturopathy. I get nothing else...

[@useacondom115]

The acceptance rates of naturopathic schools is over 50% for most of their schools. This is setting the bar way too low. I thought about going and signed up to get emails. Unfortunately, the naturopathic schools spam me with mail and emails, requesting that I join. Why are they so desperate for students? I’ve signed up for emails with osteopathic and allopathic medical schools and and they do not have to advertise their programs. I’m currently getting ready to apply to osteopathic school. Although I hated ZDogg after his vegan video, this one is definitely true. Many of my vegan friends are so easily swayed by homeopathy and naturopathic school but the evidence isn’t there, and the training is mediocre compared to normal medical schools.

[@constantchange1145]

Good interview but the dynamic with your team is toxic and lame

[@2snipe1]

Okay, the blood letting did it for me. What a bunch of Quacks. Are Naturopathic Doctors being relabeled as functional medicine doctors? Because if so, I'm questioning a lot of what I'm seeing in the keto and vegan communities despite it digesting alot of scientific articles.

[@phenomenalfemale524]

This is one of my fav episodes. So needed to take the blinders off about Homeopathy. I, too, fell for a bunch of this stuff and believe the rest of the story needed to be aired. Her patient candor was revealing. What a great guest. Women patients are taken advantage of and underserved. Biology is destiny? Can anyone comment on Edward Kondrot, a Homeopathy Ophthalmologist? He alleges his asthma was cured by Homeopathy...

[@byrolyn8182]

SERENA THE TENNIS GREAT HAD PULMONARY EMBOLISM FOR THE 2ND TIME. IT WAS A NIGHTMARE FOR HER DOCTOR TO BELIEVE HER. FINALLY HER DOCTOR ORDERED TESTS AND REVEALED THE SHE DID HAVE A PULMONARY EMBOLISM.

[@deviousxen]

The homeopathic anxiety joke was fucking hilarious.

[@mdmwee]

Great interview! There was a very, very brief mention on essential oil here. It would be really good if you could talk more on this. There are tons of material in the internet...and the more I read, the more I don't know what to make of it. Can't wait to hear your take on this. Thanks.

[@shivamchawla9520]

Nice interview, but the interviewer is a bit irritating with the constant interruptions :P But again, nothing wrong with that, thats just my personal view :)

[@byrolyn8182]

THE NDs SHOULD NOT BE CALLED DOCTORS OR PHYSICIANS.

[@gigahorse1475]

I know this isn’t the topic, but why is “old” and “white” an insult now?

[@shougoo7246]

Thanks for having Brit on. The interview was thought provoking and intelligent. I greatly enjoyed watching this. Thanks!

[@benfamajr.]

Holy shit that was a great interview. I learned so much. So glad to see such an depth look at such a complicated subject. You guys are the best.

[@matthewmedeiros5533]

Ben Fama Jr. So you learned how to use personal and anecdotal evidence along with condescension and bad jokes to "debunk" a field of medicine? Right. I saw your interview with her, same shit. If a medical student came out and talked about his terrible experience in a hospital with an MD as an attempt to discredit the field, he would be immediately torn down for falsely generalizing anecdotal evidence. Yet these morons get a pass? Makes sense..

[@jonathanwinters1625]

You're a loser.

[@texasowl5356]

Ben Fama Jr. the first bit is cringie

[@cinder5268]

wow very interesting interview. Very brave woman .

[@jimb.7919]

My family has benefited several times using naturopathy methods with small "pre" like conditions. I think this is the best route for lifestyle early intervention needs. The issue is that there are some within the practice that make very dangerous and scary claims. Like chiropractic care I think there is a place for both naturopahty and traditional medical care to coordinate together. Giving a pill for high BP in the 140/90 range is a lifetime sentence to medication while naturopathy can help. One big concern is that traditional medicine doesn't treat the person holistically. If this changed so much could change...

[@rubygreta1]

The reason naturopathy exists is because of the corruption and ineptitude of the medical establishment.

[@globright9127]

I agree go with science but this thinking does not support cultural diversity. Lots of asians use homeopathic treatment for their own care.

[@LinguistAmbie]

So true! And they outlive us westerners ☺️🤷🏽‍♀️ but everyone conveniently leave that out when criticizing alternative medicine.

[@globright9127]

@@LinguistAmbie agreed!

[@ambers8775]

What are your thoughts on dermatologists who just prescribe antibiotics and send you on your way. Antibiotics totally fucked up my good gut bacteria but succeeded in acne. Now I am off those suffering with bad gut health and bad skin. I don't want to take birth control and fuck up my hormones further than they are right now. Just looking for some more feedback..

[@phenomenalfemale524]

And, if a Dr says something to you live in the consultation and doesn't include that in my med record, even when you explicitly ask him to include a certain statement, that is Not OK! Drs have a whole string of things they do that turn off patients and so patients go home and google their issues/symptoms.

[@berngirl5624]

Canada requires a bachelor of science before going into naturopathy. 🤷‍♀

[@liamhawthorne9798]

Great vid! I thought there was a difference between naturopathic and homeopathic? Most naturopaths will keep to basics for example getting good sleep, magnesium and vitamin D. It's rare people turn towards homeopathy. I'm from Montreal, Canada, however. Is there a difference here?

[@barzinlotfabadi]

I, too, once believed that I had it all figured out because I read a few physics textbooks

[@cootchillnelson8699]

How about traditional naturopathy?

[@Kinoons]

One of the better AMAs I’ve seen to date. In my NP program we had to spend some time with CAM and it’s usefullness. Most of us came to the conclusion that things like acupuncture and acupressure were very unlikely to help, but also are very unlikely to hurt. In that case I’d tell my patients to give it a shot, there is no evidence it will help, that I believe it’s a placebo, but as long as you don’t replace conventional medical therapy with it that it won’t hurt. The difficult part becomes after they feel some improvement (placebo) they think other alternative practices may also be effective. Now you have an uphill battle against confirmation bias. Thanks western medicine for dicking up the last 50 years of care.

[@chelsear9483]

I think this school this Britt woman went to was a scam. I work in the ER and am very medicine based and science based but the school I study alternative medicine out of drills into your head that eastern medicine is not a replacement and can only be used side by side with western medicine. And you have to study a long time on herbal dosages and it's contraindications to western meds, other herbs and medical issues pts may have. She wastes her money on a fake quack school imo.

[@jonathanwinters1625]

Hundreds of studies exist that prove the effectiveness of acupuncture, acupressure, and natural therapies. Traditional chinese medicine has relied on those techniques for millennia, You're clearly an undereducated fool. Take a CEU course because you need more education.

[@zvann7915]

The only real benefit I am hearing about naturopathy in the interview and in the comments comes down to a patient having a feeling of agency(placebo at best), feeling heard, and feeling supported through the healing process. It's a disaster for someone that's sick to feel unheard, abandoned, and powerless, I 100% agree. ZDogg is right, western medicine as a whole, is the culprit for this. But, it takes knowing there are SO MANY ways to do harm as a healthcare provider, regardless of intention, that makes the rigor of science and evidence based medicine taught in medical schools followed by the mandatory, supervised, clinical practice of residency so reliable, effective, and necessary to be a medical doctor. To be responsible for another person's life is an unbelievable responsibility. Giving homeopathic remedies as a perceived treatment option for something that is medically treatable or curable is nothing less than irresponsible and a harmful trick. Even if there are natural compounds in these treatments that can be beneficial, we need controlled dosing of scientifically proven and effective drugs a.k.a. FDA regulated pharmaceuticals. I really don't understand the debate here. Hearing how blurred the lines are defining the scope of practice for naturopaths is terrifying and for those that give vaccines, prescribe antibiotics, and implement medical treatments, still, their education and "training" is incomplete, inconsistent, and irresponsible. They don't know what they don't know. Playing out any future changes to the naturopath curriculum, I can only see it converging into science and evidence based medicine. So, what's the point of naturopathy as a distinct field? Scrap it! Once again, addressing the psychological and sociological well-being of patients while treating the biological illness is absolutely important. In my opinion, investing the resources and effort to fix the naturopathic system would be better spent increasing the number of medical schools, residency spots, and incentivizing med students to become PCPs practicing the biopsychosocial approach to treatment. All the while, our standards for perspective doctors are uncompromised and the quality and availability of care improves in an agreeable direction. Empowering well-trained and competent MDs with time to listen and feel compassion toward treating the biological disease while offering patients lifestyle and dietary changes through a healthy patient-doctor relationship is what we should all want. Ain't nobody got time (or money) for pseudoscience.

[@lewisbilly12353]

Well, it has the opposite worse effect of convincing the patient of not going through with a treatment that would work. It provides an unproven alternative, that is backed up with a feeling of authority. That is the real danger here. You want to prescribe yoga as an MD, fine, but as Zdog said, you should be honest that it is a placebo and will not work.

[@zvann7915]

Gaizilla!!! We are on the same page regarding the selection of presented treatment options with proven effectiveness presented to the patient. However, MDs would also have realistic, evidence and experience-based expectations of those offered treatments to present to the patient based on an accurate diagnosis. Accurate diagnoses are crucial to management and a HUGE part of doing no harm. To strengthen core muscles, improve flexibility, and promote physical activity through yoga as a conservative treatment option for back pain isn’t 100% effective, but this is a valid treatment for certain diagnoses and patients. Most importantly it’s not presented as aligning someone’s chi.

[@lewisbilly12353]

@@zvann7915 MDs do the best proven treatment. NDs do not. NDs use any correlative or case study to confirm their biased assumptions. It is not scientific rigor. Go to a real doctor.

[@lewisbilly12353]

@@zvann7915 if any ND treatment would be super effective, then MDs would perscribe it too. MDs are science based, and they have a higher level of education and scrutiny than NDs. NDs are "evidence" based, meaning they will use any bit of science to confirm their preconceptions, instead of trying to disconfirm them.

[@genod3938]

@@lewisbilly12353 you got the wrong mindset on this aw man... well thats your problem have a nice one...

[@chaylaneese4185]

I don’t know when Britt went to Naturopathic school, but you have to have a bachelors degree to apply to a naturopathic program.

[@bloompretty7576]

I learned recently that there are actually two different things... Naturopaths and Naturopathic Doctors. Naturopaths have no schooling or short online schooling while naturopathic doctors have 8 years of schooling and are regulated like allopathic doctors (regular doctors)

[@leeslyrose]

BloomPretty very true

[@spideylover4105]

@@bloompretty7576 they are NOT regulated like allopathic doctors.

[@bloompretty7576]

@@spideylover4105 A Naturopathic Doctor (ND) is regulated just the same, has special trainings, 8 years of school + 2 years of residency, board exams, etc.

[@spideylover4105]

@@bloompretty7576 kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWK9fX9qqNx_g7s Listen to a former naturopath. You are simply incorrect.

[@chasehprice]

This interview made the case for alternative medicine more than it tried to tear it down. More heat than light. Dr. D., please reach out so we can have a real discussion that will actually educate the public on these topics. Regards.

[@lewisbilly12353]

He educates you on the science, and showed that NPs prescribe either ineffective and life threatening treatments.

[@truthful4u]

I admire her courage to stand up against pseudo-science! Thanks for being in Dr. ZDogg's show.

[@joygernautm6641]

You know what they call “alternative medicine” that actually works? MEDICINE!

[@joygernautm6641]

@Frank Aziz You're kidding right? How may characters does this reply allow...

[@joygernautm6641]

@Frank Aziz Are you a chemical biologist? A research physician?

[@joygernautm6641]

Frank Aziz Not all information carries equal weight. Medications are developed to treat and to cure disease. You are correct insulin does not cure diabetes, but because of this medication billions of people are alive today. Antiviral medication cocktails do not cure HIV, but not that long ago being HIV-positive was a death sentence, and now it’s not. If you want to discuss actual objective , peer reviewed, valid studied in regards to medicine then I’m open to that.

[@joygernautm6641]

Well I'm not sure "you tube" is the best evidence for your point. That doesn't matter though. Naturopaths "profit". A LOT. they make more money than medical doctors do. They have poorer outcomes. If you're having a heart attack where do you head? Your local naturopath? Nope. Also, please look up Sofosbuvir/ Daclatasvir. a CURE for hepatitis C. You are using a lot of "buzz words" designed to scare average folks into buying stuff. I find it funny that you seem to think "profit" is a dirty word. Just because a company develops a drug for profit doesnt' automatically negate that drugs therapeutic properties. Do mistakes get made? Uh..yeah. But just as many "natural" remedies have killed people (Like drinking radium for health). Most holistic remedies have a placebo effect at best. Those that work..well..they are developed into actual medicines (aspirin is actually willow bark). The western medicine" community is not ANTI natural. AT ALL. Look up "fecal transplant". Pretty damn natural (but kind gross), but is now the established best therapy for curing chronic c-difficile. We also commonly give melatonin for mild insomnia (yes, prescribed by a doctor), and probiotics to aid in stomach issues. Wanna know that the difference is? Those things need real proof they work! If they do..then doctors are on board. I'm a nurse. I deal with doctors and patients and very ill people daily. You want me to tell you horror stories about people who tried to "cure" their illness with "natural" remedies and died? Oh yes..that happens. Not because they took the natural "remedy" but because they skipped "evil western medicine" to go the natural route..and died. Most people who die from "western drugs" are hooked on opiates and overdose (opium is natural by the way, and people have been addicted to it and OD'ing on it since..well forever). Sometimes people have an adverse reaction (as in an allergy). Guess what? Same thing could happen if someone eats peanuts, strawberries or shellfish. Doesn't mean those things are "evil", and yes people (farmers and fishermen) "profit" from those things. Your reasoning for vilifying traditional medicine is baseless and founded in hysteria.

[@joygernautm6641]

Frank Aziz First of all I actually live in Canada. Socialized medicine and all. Secondly you make many assumptions about what I have and have not researched. I would also like you to find me a type one diabetic who is able to survive and thrive without the use of modern pharmaceuticals. Is insulin a “cure”? No. It’s not. Are you trying to tell me that a naturopath can cure diabetes? You want one hand you say medical shouldn’t make a profit but then you think it’s great that natural paths make more money. They make more money because most of them market their own line of supplements that they sell to their clientele at 500% profit. If that’s not shady I don’t know what it is. Anyway it doesn’t really matter because you have made up your mind on this subject and you are obviously on a “team”. Evidence could slap you in the face and you wouldn’t Acknowledge it. I do not think it is a stretch to expect natural remedies to have to go through the same scrutiny and Reese h as marketed medications in order to be sold to the public with claims of cure or treatment for diseases

[@Juliet42110]

I really want to read her blog and it doesn't seem to be working any longer. I read it a few years ago when I was searching about naturopathy being quackery and it was great. I was seeking info out on this back then because I was seeing a naturopath who literally seem to know nothing about anything and multiple times sold me the wrong dose of supplements that were actually hormones (DHEA and she gave me the mens starting dose rather than the womens, which was ten times higher than what I should start on and I had horrendous side effects instantly). The dumb moron 'Dr' didn't even offer to refund my money for the wrong doses I bought. I then dropped her like a bad habit and will NEVER visit a naturopath again. My Dr. also had no clue how to treat my hypothyroidism and everything was a dang experiment. I wasted so much money, and I don't have a lot as I am a school teacher who was desperate for help. But anyways, I'd love to read her blog though, I hope it comes online again eventually. ;-)

[@jonasoffersen5818]

I'd love to hear you talk about what science there is concerning MCS. I know many people who's lives are devastated by the condition. There's no doubt that the suffering is real. Many of them tell me that treating it as a psychological condition does nothing to improve it. So to me, it sounds like hogwash to say it's not a real condition. Please, it would be awesome to hear more.

[@stevenlang9789]

great interview!

[@sharondianneb]

Meh

[@liljohn705]

At about an hour into the video they talk about meditation/yoga. They should know that’s also a form of eastern medicine/therapeutics which is also considered a form of witchcraft. So I’m a little confused lol

[@marabanara]

Meditation and yoga both take advantage of mindfulness, and that actually has a good scientific backing and evidence base. It also is very low-harm, as they’re not advocating yoga & meditation as alternatives to medical treatments, but rather as something everyone can benefit from, same as a healthier diet and increasing exercise.

[@SisterCaliGal]

thanks for sharing your story, Britt Marie Hermes! takes courage, in my humble opinion.

[@reneemottoh239]

Great show! Really enjoyed this, thank you!

[@yashursuntheamericanindian]

I came here for a professional outlook on becoming an ND. I am open to both sides to make sure this is the path I want to be on. By your dialogue and sarcasm during the interview made me want to become an ND even more. Thank you guys

[@kbrooten]

What's the name of the book she mentioned?

[@lalohidalgogomez8007]

Trick or Treatment, by Edzard Ernst and Simon Singh. A fantastic read.

[@kbrooten]

Thank you!

[@nikkydemorales]

Great interview. I do have one question. I understand how the placebo effect works on people with less severe conditions. I have witnessed and heard of people treating bladder infections and cancer using alternative medicine ( Apple cider vinegar for the bladder infection and alkilizing and diet change for cancer) Is there an explanation for this? Thank you for your time. 😀🌘

[@caracaponio5867]

The power of placebo is insane. Placebo works for so many people, yet they’d be thinking that they’re taking is actually a legitimate form of medication. I agree with this interviewer, as there are certain aspects of this field, especially homeopathy where its not backed by science, yet it works for so many people. Is it placebo, or is it a legitimate form of medicine that’s actually working? I’m not a huge fan of homeopathy due to the lack of evidence behind it (I’m currently learning it in school and its so damn weird and doesn’t make sense it me) , however if a patient responds well to it, why stop them from that treatment? Also each of our body’s physiology and reactions to certain therapies/treatments are extremely individualized, so what may work for you may not work for someone else. The power of our mind also comes into play. The old quote of “what you think is what you will get” is definitely true. Science has shown that people who are more stressed, think negatively etc. Are at higher risk of developing conditions and illnesses.

[@justintempus7406]

Old comment but here goes. The "cured" cancer thing gets me. Homeopaths and naturopaths will often try to diagnose or evaluate cancer using unsupported methods such as thermography. I've talked to a couple of cancer "survivors" who were told they had breast cancer by naturopaths using the thermographic "method" and a few months or years later they were told their diet/herbal treatments cured them when they never had a legitimate diagnosis to begin with. I'm not trying to be snarky, as I have been hoodwinked before as well, but the plural of anecdote is not data.

[@ProtoIndoEuropean88]

@@caracaponio5867 placebo is false and does not exist. Else I could cure a fever by thinking that by drinking water I would be cured and this never happened.

[@courtneypaige11100]

I have to wonder if the dermatologist you we seeing in high school is the same dermatologist I used to see in Fresno/ north clovis. She was so mean! And she was very petite so she would stand on her step stool and berate you about your acne.

[@byrolyn8182]

MS SHOULD BE TREATED BY A NEUROLOGIST. DANGEROUS

[@byrolyn8182]

IF SHE WERE A CAUCASIAN MALE, I THINK HE WOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

[@KTravRuNEr]

Loved this podcast!!! So great to have her on!!

[@jonathanwinters1625]

It's a shitty, one-sided, biased vlog at best. Turn of the TV and go read a book. The last book you read was 50 shades of gray. Get a life.